View Full Version : Pentagon admits flying military drones in US
FlyingHunter
03-09-16, 18:38
Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/9/pentagon-admits-operating-military-drone-flights-o/
According to the report, which was completed in March 2015, the Pentagon established guidance in 2006 governing when and whether drones could be used domestically.
The interim policy allowed spy drones to be used for homeland defense purposes and to assists civil authorities.
However, the policy said that any use of military spy drones for civilian authorities must be cleared by the Secretary of Defense or someone delegated by the secretary. The report found that the defense secretaries never delegated that responsibility, according to USA Today.
But the desire for domestic drone operations is growing, according to the report. Military units that operate the drones told inspectors that they would like more opportunities to fly them on domestic missions, even just to give pilots more experience.
I bet the cameras are strong enough to see when the sheeple need shearing
Outlander Systems
03-09-16, 18:41
Don't worry, bro.
The Bill of Rights clearly states that, "Hath them with no ill will, nothing to fear, if they doth have nothing to hide." Or something like that.
Right?
I'm sure it's for the children. Or to protect us from the boogeyman or something.
The older I get, the more I am convinced that the law is a unilateral institution, whereby only one party in the transactional nature of the law, must abide by it.
Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/9/pentagon-admits-operating-military-drone-flights-o/
According to the report, which was completed in March 2015, the Pentagon established guidance in 2006 governing when and whether drones could be used domestically.
The interim policy allowed spy drones to be used for homeland defense purposes and to assists civil authorities.
However, the policy said that any use of military spy drones for civilian authorities must be cleared by the Secretary of Defense or someone delegated by the secretary. The report found that the defense secretaries never delegated that responsibility, according to USA Today.
But the desire for domestic drone operations is growing, according to the report. Military units that operate the drones told inspectors that they would like more opportunities to fly them on domestic missions, even just to give pilots more experience.
I bet the cameras are strong enough to see when the sheeple need shearing
Well.....no Jawa cosplay for Halloween for me THIS year....
Outlander Systems
03-09-16, 18:58
LOL!!! Dude, that made my night.
Well.....no Jawa cosplay for Halloween for me THIS year....
Well.....no Jawa cosplay for Halloween for me THIS year....
Now, now, now, dressing up to resemble a jihadi shouldn't put you in any danger, after all everyone knows that the government would have no desire to harm a defensive jihadi carrying an AK. Going out dressed like Neo will result in your ass being turned into a crater before you can get ten steps out your door, however.
Cagemonkey
03-09-16, 19:13
Come on. Is anyone Really Surprised?
FlyingHunter
03-09-16, 19:15
Come on. Is anyone Really Surprised?
I was surprised about Firefly's Halloween plans...
How many of these flights were simply test flights of new equipment or systems?
SH-60 Seahawks with the same IR camera systems over fly my house on a near daily basis.
We should be more worried about the NBC materials traveling our highways...
Don't drone me bro...
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thepatriot2705
03-09-16, 19:38
Violation of posse comitatus....
Outlander Systems
03-09-16, 19:38
Dude, I'm so making a meme out of that.
Don't drone me bro...
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Outlander Systems
03-09-16, 19:39
ICanHazHellfire
ICanHazHellfire
Dude, I'm so making a meme out of that.
#winning
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I'm sure they weren't doing anything bad here probably continuing the search for DB Cooper.
thepatriot2705
03-09-16, 19:44
Dude, I'm so making a meme out of that.
Too late
https://www.google.com/search?q=don%27t+drone+me+bro+meme&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibmsqZ_7TLAhWKORQKHUrSCLUQ_AUIBygB&biw=999&bih=567
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-09-16, 19:45
It's the crap that that we don't know about rather than the stuff that they tell us. If this is what the admit to, what actually happened?
It's the crap that that we don't know about rather than the stuff that they tell us. If this is what they admit to, what actually happened?
No shit!
Honestly, if it meant they stopped flying loud ass helo's over my place at night, I'd be fine.
yup and Benghazi was a video !
and clinton did not have relations !
etc...
KalashniKEV
03-09-16, 21:24
ZOMG! DRONES!!1!
What a crap article.
DoD UAS fly in CONUS all the time- for training, Platform R&D, Payload Integration, etc... but always in controlled airspace and deconflicted with commercial air traffic and Kenny Kitplane.
They're worried about Law Enforcement (Federal and Local) requesting UAS assets from DoD to conduct surveillance?
Well if the FAA would get off it's ass regarding the integration of UAS into the National Airspace, those agencies would simply contract for their own UAS services and dump all the noisy, expensive, low-endurance, maintenance-intensive helicopters for fixed wing UAS.
Operators are standing by...
;)
Violation of posse comitatus....
And what is it when an F-15 loaded with ordnance heads out to a test range?
SeriousStudent
03-09-16, 22:28
And what is it when an F-15 loaded with ordnance heads out to a test range?
That's the sound of freedom, dammit!
:cool:
FWIW the most impressive sight I ever saw was some Marine Harriers screaming by once when I was in middle GA.
It was bad ass.
Realistically, there is no difference from a Harrier, Apache, or F-16 to a drone.
It's not like they are the drones from Terminator 1 or anything. There's a guy behind the stick.
Makes ya think.
Drones on a training mission(a real one)....ok.
Drones just snooping on me and Hellfiring me...not ok.
Blah
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-09-16, 22:53
I'm surprised at the confusion as to the difference between training missions and domestic spying? No one expects training to happen only outside the US. Military assets used to target specific citizens? That is different stuff entirely.
And what is it when an F-15 loaded with ordnance heads out to a test range?
These weren't training or test flights- they were military drones collecting Intel on domestic targets/citizens.
Big difference.
ramairthree
03-10-16, 00:49
Was it done on a US citizen, without a warrant, not in conjunction with a LE agency?
Makes a big difference whether I care or not.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-10-16, 00:51
Was it done on a US citizen, without a warrant, not in conjunction with a LE agency?
Makes a big difference whether I care or not.
Even in conjunction with LE and a warrant, I still have a problem.
Bad enough to have a standing army. An army standing on you is worse.
Moose-Knuckle
03-10-16, 02:42
Come on. Is anyone Really Surprised?
Nope. Holder actually had a convo with Kill List Barry whether or not he could arm them and use in CONUS.
That's the sound of freedom, dammit!
:cool:
Hell Yeah it is!
These weren't training or test flights- they were military drones collecting Intel on domestic targets/citizens.
Big difference.
Did we read the same article?
I didn't see anywhere in that poorly written, non proofread, sensationalized scare piece that they were used to spy on and gather intel about U.S. citizens.
And if they did use them to spy on Americans, what is the difference between using a drone piloted by a human in a trailer and a helicopter with the same equipment but with a pilot in it?
KalashniKEV
03-10-16, 10:44
Did we read the same article?
I didn't see anywhere in that poorly written, non proofread, sensationalized scare piece that they were used to spy on and gather intel about U.S. citizens.
The key premise here is that in order to get really freaked, and totally get your kook on regarding Law Enforcement using drones to conduct surveillance or for lawful intercept of communications, is that you must first be dumb enough to think that the only "drone" in the world is the MQ-1 Predator and that the only thing it does is shoot missiles.
This type of journalism preys on the uninformed and those with weak thinking skills.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-10-16, 10:55
Here it is in USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/03/09/pentagon-admits-has-deployed-military-spy-drones-over-us/81474702/
not exactly fringe media, and it is based on an Pentagon IG report. Not exactly full kook conspiracy material made out of this air.
The site lists nine missions flown between 2011 and 2016, largely to assist with search and rescue, floods, fires or National Guard exercises.
So are we to think that domestic LEOs never thought to use them in criminal investigations? More likely those were scrubbed from the list for national security issues. It also took a year for this report to make its way out.
We can set up the simple 2x2 matrix for everyone. Drone usage CONUS/OCONUS and USA citizens/non-citizens. We've tagged all the boxes for surveillance, and we can now play bingo for strikes, they've already filled two of the boxes.
Nothing to see here. Stop looking up and look back down at your smartphone.
How many of these flights were simply test flights of new equipment or systems?
Zero. Flight test of new platforms and sensors is by definition a military mission, one generally conducted only in military controlled airspace in fairly unpopulated areas. Ft Huachuca is a pretty good example on the Army side.
On top of that, if it was test flights the number would be a couple orders of magnitude higher than 20 over the last 10 years. Just here at Redstone I know at one point they were running 2 or 3 test flights a week for Shadow development....
I was surprised about Firefly's Halloween plans...
Hell, I've only been a member here for about a year and wasn't surprised at that...
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As long as it's not one of you "Bears in the air" clocking my ass on the freeway...
I guess I'm ok with it.
:)
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Leaveammoforme
03-10-16, 14:27
This whole time I thought the drone inside the no fly zone of the Oregon event was some high school avionics class.
Outlander Systems
03-10-16, 14:30
Son of a...!!!!!!
Well, at least it saves me from firing up PhotoChop.
Too late
https://www.google.com/search?q=don%27t+drone+me+bro+meme&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibmsqZ_7TLAhWKORQKHUrSCLUQ_AUIBygB&biw=999&bih=567
KalashniKEV
03-10-16, 15:10
The site lists nine missions flown between 2011 and 2016, largely to assist with search and rescue, floods, fires or National Guard exercises.
Well the National Guard doesn't need SECDEF authorization to use DoD assets for training, so I guess either it was probably one of those regional exercises that integrate local Law Enforcement.
So are we to think that domestic LEOs never thought to use them in criminal investigations? More likely those were scrubbed from the list for national security issues. It also took a year for this report to make its way out.
You do realize that saying "Drones!" is actually less specific than saying, for example "Guns!" or "Cars!"
It's basically the same as saying "Vehicles!"
Has a department ever deployed a DJI Phantom to assist in crowd control? Ever? I'm sure they have.
They have also used helicopters for the same exact purpose.
Flight test of new platforms and sensors is by definition a military mission, one generally conducted only in military controlled airspace in fairly unpopulated areas. Ft Huachuca is a pretty good example on the Army side.
Huachuca is the schoolhouse for MQ-1C and RQ-7B.
We conduct most of our testing at YPG, China Lake, and other hot sandy places.
Well the National Guard doesn't need SECDEF authorization to use DoD assets for training, so I guess either it was probably one of those regional exercises that integrate local Law Enforcement.
You do realize that saying "Drones!" is actually less specific than saying, for example "Guns!" or "Cars!"
It's basically the same as saying "Vehicles!"
Has a department ever deployed a DJI Phantom to assist in crowd control? Ever? I'm sure they have.
They have also used helicopters for the same exact purpose.
Huachuca is the schoolhouse for MQ-1C and RQ-7B.
We conduct most of our testing at YPG, China Lake, and other hot sandy places.
Trust me when I say we test at Huachuca too. That's one of my company's major locations for providing t&e support. Thought for a while they were going to send me there. They don't test a lot of on aircraft hardware but do software updates, ground station components, etc.
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Nope. Holder actually had a convo with Kill List Barry whether or not he could arm them and use in CONUS.
Link?
Outlander Systems
03-10-16, 19:02
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/BrennanHolderResponse.pdf
The big issue is that metadata is used for targeting, and there is no confirmation that the intended recipient of the hellfire-enema is the actual party receiving said hellfire-enema.
Top. Men.
http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2016/02/the-nsas-skynet-program-may-be-killing-thousands-of-innocent-people/
In 2014, the former director of both the CIA and NSA proclaimed that "we kill people based on metadata." Now, a new examination of previously published Snowden documents suggests that many of those people may have been innocent.
Last year, The Intercept published documents detailing the NSA's SKYNET programme. According to the documents, SKYNET engages in mass surveillance of Pakistan's mobile phone network, and then uses a machine learning algorithm on the cellular network metadata of 55 million people to try and rate each person's likelihood of being a terrorist.
Patrick Ball—a data scientist and the director of research at the Human Rights Data Analysis Group—who has previously given expert testimony before war crimes tribunals, described the NSA's methods as "ridiculously optimistic" and "completely bullshit." A flaw in how the NSA trains SKYNET's machine learning algorithm to analyse cellular metadata, Ball told Ars, makes the results scientifically unsound.
Link?
Was it done on a US citizen, without a warrant, not in conjunction with a LE agency?
Makes a big difference whether I care or not.
On US soil non military LEO should be it. PERIOD. Unless we are talking declared national emergency or similar, the military needs to stay the **** on their bases and out of the LEO business. Train all you want inside military controlled space while not eves dropping on US citizens in the privacy of their own homes. I know I'm old fashioned and out of vogue.
On US soil non military LEO should be it. PERIOD. Unless we are talking declared national emergency or similar, the military needs to stay the **** on their bases and out of the LEO business. Train all you want inside military controlled space while not eves dropping on US citizens in the privacy of their own homes. I know I'm old fashioned and out of vogue.
I may be mistaken but I truly feel that most military brass (including the rank-and-file troops too) would prefer to stay out of domestic business. I could be wrong, but I'd like to believe it
Of course they would call it SkyNet. This is my shocked face.... :|
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Can someone please tell me what the difference is between a GBU-38 JDAM delivered from an MQ-9 Reaper as opposed to say an F-15E Strike Eagle?
Or perhaps someone can tell me the difference between the Raytheon AN/AAS-52 mounted on the MQ-9 as opposed to being mounted on a UH-60 or AH-6 or any of the 21 other aircraft it has been integrated with?
Moose-Knuckle
03-11-16, 02:44
Link?
Holder clarifies drone strike policy on U.S. soil
Attorney General Eric Holder tells Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., in a letter that strikes will not be made against American citizens on U.S. soil who are non-combatants.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/03/07/obama-holder-paul-drone-strikes/1970819/
Eric Holder clarifies policy on drone attacks on U.S. soil
Attorney General Eric Holder said on Thursday that President Barack Obama would not have the authority to order a drone to kill an American citizen on U.S. soil who was "not engaged in combat."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-holder-idUSBRE92614B20130307
Ok, let's define "combat" and "combatant".
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KalashniKEV
03-11-16, 17:12
Ok, let's define "combat" and "combatant".
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Why not start at the beginning and define "Drone."
...or just stop using the word.
Fearsites have been manipulating the sheep for too long by using these vague and emotionally loaded terms.
Are we talking about a Scan Eagle locating some aging grandpa treading water after his sailboat capsized, or are we talking about an MQ-9 Reaper protecting the border, or are we talking about an MQ-9 Reaper killing our enemies?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-16, 18:34
I don't think small size makes it any less of an issue. While not armed, they would probably be more targeted towards a specific individual and employed for surveillance. That is also something that I don't think that we should be using the military for in the US.
KalashniKEV
03-11-16, 19:48
That is also something that I don't think that we should be using the military for in the US.
That was the second part of my point- this crap article attempts to lead the uninformed to assume that all "drones" are armed Preds and Reapers and ALSO that only the military is capable of fielding UAS.
Once the FAA sorts out UAS integration into the national airspace, not only will costly fleets of Police helicopters be replaced by low cost, low maintenance, long endurance, more capable UAS, but so will the news chopper, sky writing/ banner pulling, and ten other things that no one can even think of yet... and most of them will be on contract.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-16, 20:54
And here and Colorado get my weed even faster...
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