View Full Version : Foreign aid...does anyone wonder....
When it comes to foreign aid, does anyone wonder why we don't invest more in our neighbors to the south in foreign aid? Im not saying I agree with foreign aid at all (I think that we need to take care of home first) but if we're just going to keep handing out money, why wouldn't we invest in Mexico?
Mexico could be an unbelievable asset to the south. Not only do they have the whole tourist thing, they have the population in Mexico City to be a manufacture powerhouse (ie save on shipping cost compared to China).
Why wouldn't our political electorate cut aid to African countries and send it to Mexico? If their economy improved, in theory illegal immigration would decrease....one would think.
Plus who doesn't like good Mexican food?? Tacos al pastor, barbacoa, carnitas, hell even their Coca-Cola is better!
If The narco state did not exist, Mexico would be a hell of a neighbor, could aid money help in rooting out the problem, or would reform be needed in the States (in regards to the war on drugs...which Im all for)?
P.S. this post was fueled by Dos XX amber
Whiskey_Bravo
03-11-16, 16:20
I actually agree with J-Dub(wtf is the world coming to). Stop supporting some of the shit holes an ocean away and do our best to turn Mexico into a decent state. It would require taking on the cartels head on though so I don't see that happening.
I actually agree with J-Dub(wtf is the world coming to). Stop supporting some of the shit holes an ocean away and do our best to turn Mexico into a decent state. It would require taking on the cartels head on though so I don't see that happening.
We probably agree on more than you think!
When you say "take on the cartels head on", are we talking los pepes style? If yes, I would venture to guess that if we ended our wars with the savages in southwest Asia, and Mexico was cool with it.....dough boys 2.0 could do the job in 6 months tops.
I wish Israel would refuse any more aid from the USA. The USA then can take that money and use it as outlinned above.
But it would cause lots of lay offs in the military industrial complex as Israel would stop buying American planes and start building our own again. Which scares the hell out of the Boesings, MD etc.
I wish Israel would refuse any more aid from the USA. The USA then can take that money and use it as outlinned above.
But it would cause lots of lay offs in the military industrial complex as Israel would stop buying American planes and start building our own again. Which scares the hell out of the Boesings, MD etc.
Or would Mexico eventually pick up the slack?
Outlander Systems
03-11-16, 17:11
I actually find myself in complete agreement with you on this.
The absolute biggest challenge is routing out the endemic corruption.
I would be willing to wager that the cartels are, arguably more powerful than the State itself.
But you are absolutely on the right track.
When it comes to foreign aid, does anyone wonder why we don't invest more in our neighbors to the south in foreign aid? Im not saying I agree with foreign aid at all (I think that we need to take care of home first) but if we're just going to keep handing out money, why wouldn't we invest in Mexico?
Mexico could be an unbelievable asset to the south. Not only do they have the whole tourist thing, they have the population in Mexico City to be a manufacture powerhouse (ie save on shipping cost compared to China).
Why wouldn't our political electorate cut aid to African countries and send it to Mexico? If their economy improved, in theory illegal immigration would decrease....one would think.
Plus who doesn't like good Mexican food?? Tacos al pastor, barbacoa, carnitas, hell even their Coca-Cola is better!
If The narco state did not exist, Mexico would be a hell of a neighbor, could aid money help in rooting out the problem, or would reform be needed in the States (in regards to the war on drugs...which Im all for)?
P.S. this post was fueled by Dos XX amber
In 2013 we gave Mexico $420 million according to Wikialwaysrightpedia. I'd search for a better source but I'm sure it's probably pretty close.
In 2013 we gave Mexico $420 million according to Wikialwaysrightpedia. I'd search for a better source but I'm sure it's probably pretty close.
And according to wikiaintneverwrongpedia, we gave 600 mil to sudan, 500 mil to Nigeria, 1211 mil to Jordan, 1566 mil to Egypt. I'd say there is some wiggle room there.
AnthonyCumia
03-11-16, 20:11
When it comes to foreign aid, does anyone wonder why we don't invest more in our neighbors to the south in foreign aid? Im not saying I agree with foreign aid at all (I think that we need to take care of home first) but if we're just going to keep handing out money, why wouldn't we invest in Mexico?
Mexico could be an unbelievable asset to the south. Not only do they have the whole tourist thing, they have the population in Mexico City to be a manufacture powerhouse (ie save on shipping cost compared to China).
Why wouldn't our political electorate cut aid to African countries and send it to Mexico? If their economy improved, in theory illegal immigration would decrease....one would think.
Plus who doesn't like good Mexican food?? Tacos al pastor, barbacoa, carnitas, hell even their Coca-Cola is better!
If The narco state did not exist, Mexico would be a hell of a neighbor, could aid money help in rooting out the problem, or would reform be needed in the States (in regards to the war on drugs...which Im all for)?
P.S. this post was fueled by Dos XX amber
Or we build a fence, deport the illegals, end birth right ciztenship, reduce legal immigration, take the savings on Welfare/Foreign Aid and use it to build Lunar/Martian colonies and be space miners/farmers/marine/cowboys!
Make one reason why it would not be a great idea, you can not.
FlyingHunter
03-11-16, 20:12
I'd like to keep more of my gross paycheck to invest in my family. Let's see...Sudan, Jordan, Mexico, my children...
Domestic aid = tax me less so I keep what I earn.
Domestic aid > Foreign aid
Or we build a fence, deport the illegals, end birth right ciztenship, reduce legal immigration, take the savings on Welfare/Foreign Aid and use it to build Lunar/Martian colonies and be space miners/farmers/marine/cowboys!
Make one reason why it would not be a great idea, you can not.
I don't like heights. I love tacos, enchiladas, Mexican beer, and sombreros. I could probably find some middle ground if there will be space tacos.
I'd like to keep more of my gross paycheck to invest in my family. Let's see...Sudan, Jordan, Mexico, my children...
Domestic aid = tax me less so I keep what I earn.
Domestic aid > Foreign aid
I completely agree. I don't see a point to any foreign aid, not one red cent. However if we're just going to keep giving away money we don't have, why not at least invest it in a country that we might see some return out of our investment? Less illegal immigration, more trade, and vacations that don't end in being kidnapped.
FlyingHunter
03-11-16, 20:43
I completely agree. I don't see a point to any foreign aid, not one red cent. However if we're just going to keep giving away money we don't have, why not at least invest it in a country that we might see some return out of our investment? Less illegal immigration, more trade, and vacations that don't end in being kidnapped.
Agreed
thebarracuda
03-11-16, 21:09
I completely agree. I don't see a point to any foreign aid, not one red cent. However if we're just going to keep giving away money we don't have, why not at least invest it in a country that we might see some return out of our investment? Less illegal immigration, more trade, and vacations that don't end in being kidnapped.
Nailed it. Foreign aid annoys me to no end. If we are going to try to stabilize a nation or build a nations economy, I think we should start on our own border. If for no other reason than to reduce the amount of bs we have to deal with. Totally agree.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-16, 21:17
I don't think aid is the answer, but from the refugees in the EU to the illegal aliens here, why is the only answer that we move people? That doesn't solve the real problems driving people from those areas. Overpopulation isn't causing the problems. The lefts only answer is to take these poor people in, as they complain about increasing income inequality, with out ever examining the issues that drove people here- all as we abandon the values the culture that created this place to escape to and go more towards the cultures that these people are escaping from.
It wouldn't do any good. Latin countries have corruption out the ass.
It'd all get spent on whores, coke, villas and av gas.
ramairthree
03-12-16, 02:01
Before you agree,
Go to a Latin American country.
See what happens to funds, supplies, medical items, etc. you are their to improve things with.
See how much bribery must occur to make things happen.
See how much effort on their part is put into utilizing what you provided.
See how hard what you were promised works when and if they show up.
See how much bitching that what you provided is not enough and take in the sense they think there is literally some Elyssium like limitless supply of free stuff that costs nothing you have so much of you don't use you are actively keeping from them.
Wash rinse and repeat 14 times.
What you suggest is the equivalent of saying you could make life so much better for African Amercians if you gave a ton of money to Al Sharpton, Jeese Jackson, and the BLM movement.
Moose-Knuckle
03-12-16, 03:31
In 2013 we gave Mexico $420 million according to Wikialwaysrightpedia. I'd search for a better source but I'm sure it's probably pretty close.
We've pumped BILLIONS into Mexico to keep them afloat and look what it has gotten us. Mexico is essentially a NARCO state.
AnthonyCumia
03-12-16, 05:15
No another dime, any money that is spent on "Latin American Aid" will be spent on a border wall, deportation and ending brightright ciztenship as well as reducing immigration.
These illegals have seen and hopefully learned how a nation can and does work with socialism, time for them to back and teach others....Or not. To be honest the movement they leave our nation I do not really care.
When it comes to foreign aid, does anyone wonder why we don't invest more in our neighbors to the south in foreign aid? Im not saying I agree with foreign aid at all (I think that we need to take care of home first) but if we're just going to keep handing out money, why wouldn't we invest in Mexico?
Mexico could be an unbelievable asset to the south. Not only do they have the whole tourist thing, they have the population in Mexico City to be a manufacture powerhouse (ie save on shipping cost compared to China).
Why wouldn't our political electorate cut aid to African countries and send it to Mexico? If their economy improved, in theory illegal immigration would decrease....one would think.
Plus who doesn't like good Mexican food?? Tacos al pastor, barbacoa, carnitas, hell even their Coca-Cola is better!
If The narco state did not exist, Mexico would be a hell of a neighbor, could aid money help in rooting out the problem, or would reform be needed in the States (in regards to the war on drugs...which Im all for)?
P.S. this post was fueled by Dos XX amber
I agree with you in principle. However the manufacturing angle really comes down to labor cost. Shipping cost isn't even close.
Background...I'm a manufacturing supervisor. My department has me oversee, depending on the time of year, anywhere from 40-65 people.
Here is an example -- one of the products we produce can LITERALLY be manufactured in, and shipped from China for less than I can make it here. That's right, they can actually make it in China and ship it straight to my warehouse cheaper than I can make it and drive it 100ft down the hill. The quality is not as good, but they get better every day. This is one reason for the massive push in USA for automation, and lean manufacturing.
It's sad, really. Communist labor is impossible to compete with.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Averageman
03-12-16, 09:03
When it comes to foreign aid, does anyone wonder why we don't invest more in our neighbors to the south in foreign aid? Im not saying I agree with foreign aid at all (I think that we need to take care of home first) but if we're just going to keep handing out money, why wouldn't we invest in Mexico?
Mexico could be an unbelievable asset to the south. Not only do they have the whole tourist thing, they have the population in Mexico City to be a manufacture powerhouse (ie save on shipping cost compared to China).
Why wouldn't our political electorate cut aid to African countries and send it to Mexico? If their economy improved, in theory illegal immigration would decrease....one would think.
If The narco state did not exist, Mexico would be a hell of a neighbor, could aid money help in rooting out the problem, or would reform be needed in the States (in regards to the war on drugs...which Im all for)?
The issue with Mexico isn't that they cannot be a power house of an economy, the corrupt government keep their hand on the throttle to keep that economy just exactly where they want it.
Any dreams of them ever moving forward are strangled to death by their own policies of graft corruption and greed.
Mexico is not our friend as a matter of fact they've a pretty good history of doing a lot of crap to outright hurt the USA.
You might do better trying to achieve a better and more free Mexico by arming every returning illegal with an AK and three full magazines.
It'd all get spent on whores, coke, villas and av gas.
Go on........
Averageman
03-12-16, 09:18
I agree with you in principle. However the manufacturing angle really comes down to labor cost. Shipping cost isn't even close.
It's sad, really. Communist labor is impossible to compete with.
And if they don't labor? I'm thinking they don't eat or worse.
I don't think anyone wants to bring that up though.
And if they don't labor? I'm thinking they don't eat or worse.
I don't think anyone wants to bring that up though.
You lost me on that one?
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AnthonyCumia
03-12-16, 17:30
I agree with you in principle. However the manufacturing angle really comes down to labor cost. Shipping cost isn't even close.
Background...I'm a manufacturing supervisor. My department has me oversee, depending on the time of year, anywhere from 40-65 people.
Here is an example -- one of the products we produce can LITERALLY be manufactured in, and shipped from China for less than I can make it here. That's right, they can actually make it in China and ship it straight to my warehouse cheaper than I can make it and drive it 100ft down the hill. The quality is not as good, but they get better every day. This is one reason for the massive push in USA for automation, and lean manufacturing.
It's sad, really. Communist labor is impossible to compete with.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Slave labor can not be out competed, why do you think the Union north went to war to end slavery? Do you really think they cared about the slaves? No, its because you can not could compete slaves and the costs.
Slave labor can not be out competed, why do you think the Union north went to war to end slavery? Do you really think they cared about the slaves? No, its because you can not could compete slaves and the costs.
That's right. Well that, and the whole preservation of the union thing.
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AnthonyCumia
03-12-16, 19:20
That's right. Well that, and the whole preservation of the union thing.
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Because a tyrant could not allow freemen to stand against him on either side of the Mason Dixon Line.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-12-16, 19:43
All is not Peking Ducky in China:
http://www.plasticstoday.com/business/chinas-economic-model-starting-come-apart/190425261524242?cid=nl.x.plas04.edt.aud.plas2day.20160311
It's tough to be a communist country that adopts capitalist economic ideals. Just ask China's leaders. They've tried to emulate the Western, particularly U.S., capitalist model, while remaining in control of most of the economic engine. The contradictions of that system seem to be coming to a head.
Averageman
03-12-16, 20:01
You lost me on that one?
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My point was a lot of this is being done in conditions of near slave labor, it's not unusual when the tempo reaches its peak a number of workers off themselves rather than continue life under this strain.
We don't like to hear about that side of it, we want to buy a five dollar fan in Walmart and to hell with what happens to the guy making it.
I'm of the opinion that China can do whatever the hell they want to do, but that doesn't mean we need to make a market here in America for them to hawk this shit.
I'm old enough to remember when Sam proudly sold everything in the store with a "Made in America" sticker on it. I would much rather purchase a fifteen dollar fan and not contribute to the imbalance of trade and the enslavement of Chinese labor.
My point was a lot of this is being done in conditions of near slave labor, it's not unusual when the tempo reaches its peak a number of workers off themselves rather than continue life under this strain.
We don't like to hear about that side of it, we want to buy a five dollar fan in Walmart and to hell with what happens to the guy making it.
I'm of the opinion that China can do whatever the hell they want to do, but that doesn't mean we need to make a market here in America for them to hawk this shit.
I'm old enough to remember when Sam proudly sold everything in the store with a "Made in America" sticker on it. I would much rather purchase a fifteen dollar fan and not contribute to the imbalance of trade and the enslavement of Chinese labor.
Oh, ok I gotcha. Yes sir that's it right there.
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No another dime, any money that is spent on "Latin American Aid" will be spent on a border wall, deportation and ending brightright ciztenship as well as reducing immigration.
These illegals have seen and hopefully learned how a nation can and does work with socialism, time for them to back and teach others....Or not. To be honest the movement they leave our nation I do not really care.
I agree.
Nations (specifically their leaders, but not limited to them) that receive foreign aid from the US (and from Europe, Canada, etc.) have zero incentive to improve their situation.
Aside from the standard corruption, theft, etc. improving things would:
a) entail effort
b) entail risks (from various elements that thrive on foreign aid $$)
c) make the "need" for foreign aid less pressing than in crappier nations, hence possibly reduce their incoming $$, as they would get bumped by said crappier nations
We've given way, way too much, for way, way too long. If the USA were to hot rock bottom, I doubt all the beneficiaries of US foreign aid would be reciprocating the favor. The Saudis sending money to build mosques and madrasas does not count.
Forget Mexico.....nothing but an outright invasion would turn that nation from narco state to a freedom land. Build the wall instead and prepare for $20 for a gallon of OJ.
AnthonyCumia
03-13-16, 17:21
Go on........
Well the would have to buy guns but thanks to Eric Holder they have surplus money for whores, coke, and av gas. They are going full Charlie "WINNING!" Sheen.
Forget Mexico.....nothing but an outright invasion would turn that nation from narco state to a freedom land. Build the wall instead and prepare for $20 for a gallon of OJ.
Oh snap! Dang, that will also cut off my supply on good Coca-Cola, you know the stuff made with real sugar like God intended.
Averageman
03-13-16, 21:38
Oh snap! Dang, that will also cut off my supply on good Coca-Cola, you know the stuff made with real sugar like God intended.
You ever got caught with your trunk full of coke as you come across the border?
AnthonyCumia
03-13-16, 21:59
Forget Mexico.....nothing but an outright invasion would turn that nation from narco state to a freedom land. Build the wall instead and prepare for $20 for a gallon of OJ.
Market demand would create a need for a cheap way to pick produce, which will mean machines will be cheaper/available.
Also machines do not burden tax payers.
AnthonyCumia
03-13-16, 22:00
Oh snap! Dang, that will also cut off my supply on good Coca-Cola, you know the stuff made with real sugar like God intended.
I have had that stuff and it is great...Wish we could get it in Vegas.
AnthonyCumia
03-13-16, 22:00
You ever got caught with your trunk full of coke as you come across the border?
Alot of people that live near the border always cross over and shop in Mexico, so little goes so far down there.
Averageman
03-13-16, 22:07
Alot of people that live near the border always cross over and shop in Mexico, so little goes so far down there.
Yeah, I spent some years just North of Nogales.
I can buy the same Coke here in Texas at the little corner market for a buck a pop.
brickboy240
03-14-16, 11:10
Think if we had done the whole "regime change/nation-building" thing in Mexico, instead of Iraq.
Just went in and took over...the same way.
I think we would be better off today and we would get so much more out of doing this in Mexico than giving money to Mid-East or African countries. We get most of our oil from Mexico these days anyway...not Arab nations.
Mexico is weird, so is our relationship with them. We (the US) bitch about the illegals, their politics, the crappy border towns (and all of it is true), but we spend a gazillion bucks to fly to the Mayan Riviera and Baja and drop a ton of money on tourism. I haven't spent a lot of time south of the border, and most of what time I have spent there has been within 30 miles of the border. A girl I used to date did a year at the university in Mexico City and loved it and talked about the start difference between couth Mexico and the shitty north.
JackFanToM
03-14-16, 13:07
If Mexico was 1st world, they would have something to lose, and thereby through there self preservation the US borders would be protected. The US requires the man power, so I never understood the whole remove the illegal thing.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-14-16, 13:35
If Mexico was 1st world, they would have something to lose, and thereby through there self preservation the US borders would be protected. The US requires the man power, so I never understood the whole remove the illegal thing.
We don't 'need' the manpower. You have to structure your economy a bit differently, but it is not the end of the American way of life. If anything, it would decrease income inequality- the Holy Grail of Progressive religion. Less cheap labor means smaller houses get built, basic food stuffs are slightly more expensive, higher minimum wages from market forces, less CO2 for less global warming.
Make no mistake. Letting in illegals does nothing but add corrosive economic pressures and leverage on our society- oddly with the lowest/poorest taking the biggest hit. Upper-middle/business class makes out the best with cheap labor. All while we brain drain and relieve the pressure on ass-backward economies who are only hurt by, not helped by immigration.
The Progressives are always looking towards the EU for solutions. Oddly, they get food with out having to resort to Mexicans? They have never imported labor at the rates that we have.
JackFanToM
03-14-16, 14:31
Based on the industry I work in, Americans refuse to do the work, so your statement is correct in a "perfect" world. Based on current estimates we have 11.7 million illegals employed, current unemployment is 4.9%. Oddly the illegals make up 4%, so you are saying that if remove the illegals, all the unemployed Americans will go to work? That is a pipe dream at best. You are living in a fantasy.
brickboy240
03-14-16, 14:47
Many of you that are around 30 years of age will be amazed that long before we had a huge illegal immigrant problem, the lawns got mowed and the toilets got scrubbed here in America. Fruit got picked, too.
This idea that we cannot survive without the illegal's labor is not altogether true.
How did we survive before they came? Again, all of these tasks got done before them!
In high school, I mowed lawns and painted houses. Many high school aged white kids did these jobs. Hell...they paid better than slogging grease at a fast food joint.
Don't tell me we cannot get by without them - this is a huge myth.
Averageman
03-14-16, 15:01
Many of you that are around 30 years of age will be amazed that long before we had a huge illegal immigrant problem, the lawns got mowed and the toilets got scrubbed here in America. Fruit got picked, too.
This idea that we cannot survive without the illegal's labor is not altogether true.
How did we survive before they came? Again, all of these tasks got done before them!
In high school, I mowed lawns and painted houses. Many high school aged white kids did these jobs. Hell...they paid better than slogging grease at a fast food joint.
Don't tell me we cannot get by without them - this is a huge myth.
I'm old enough to remember a time before College Loan Debt. We didn't have the College Loan Ponzi Scheme because if your folks couldn't pay your way you used your GI Bill and you worked all summer doing construction.
You would be surprised at the jobs people will do when they have the incentive to work for an education and understand going 100K in debt is stupidity not a badge of honor.
Mexico and Mexican Labor needs the US job market. If conditions require their labor do we have to open the borders and let anyone and everyone in, or would it be more prudent to control it?
At lot of you guys here act like the US cannot control it's borders, that is simply a lie being told to you by Politicians.
Based on the industry I work in, Americans refuse to do the work, so your statement is correct in a "perfect" world. Based on current estimates we have 11.7 million illegals employed, current unemployment is 4.9%. Oddly the illegals make up 4%, so you are saying that if remove the illegals, all the unemployed Americans will go to work? That is a pipe dream at best. You are living in a fantasy.
Americans refuse to do the work because they have options other than doing the hard menial work the illegal's are doing. Immigration reform isn't an island type event. It must be coupled with other progressive scheme reforms. If welfare, WIC... whatever were converted to purely disability type benefits then the FSA would need to work or starve to death. AFAIC either is an acceptable end result. Because the progressives among us make a killing on the illegals AND the FSA nothing will ever get done.
Averageman
03-14-16, 15:59
The writing is on the wall. If you get tired of some sort of manual labor job and want a free ride here is what you need to do;
If you want free stuff wail, tear your clothes and gnash your teeth, moan about how repressed you are and vote for the Progressives. The end result is you no longer need a job, you get free stuff. Your kids can sling some dope on the corner and you can run a few scams on your taxes and on the welfare people, before you know it you're making more money than you ever did at a 9 to 5 job.
It all works pretty well until your culture starts celebrating this stuff. Your families break up, your neighborhood is reduced to rubble and your kid is doing 5 to 10 at the State House or worse gets shot by someone else wanting that corner.
One Culture dies and another comes in from South of the border and the cycle is repeated.
Escaping this crap requires a bit more dignity and some integrity, otherwise there you go.
TacticalSledgehammer
03-14-16, 17:03
The writing is on the wall. If you get tired of some sort of manual labor job and want a free ride here is what you need to do;
If you want free stuff wail, tear your clothes and gnash your teeth, moan about how repressed you are and vote for the Progressives. The end result is you no longer need a job, you get free stuff. Your kids can sling some dope on the corner and you can run a few scams on your taxes and on the welfare people, before you know it you're making more money than you ever did at a 9 to 5 job.
It all works pretty well until your culture starts celebrating this stuff. Your families break up, your neighborhood is reduced to rubble and your kid is doing 5 to 10 at the State House or worse gets shot by someone else wanting that corner.
One Culture dies and another comes in from South of the border and the cycle is repeated.
Escaping this crap requires a bit more dignity and some integrity, otherwise there you go.
Yes, exactly ^
We'd have people to do the shitty jobs, if taxpayers weren't paying them to stay home.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-14-16, 17:42
Because the progressives among us make a killing on the illegals AND the FSA nothing will ever get done.
http://youtu.be/QJEP1BzSeMQ
Uncle Milt nails it on the head with the 'Welfare Establishment'.
AnthonyCumia
03-14-16, 19:56
We don't 'need' the manpower. You have to structure your economy a bit differently, but it is not the end of the American way of life. If anything, it would decrease income inequality- the Holy Grail of Progressive religion. Less cheap labor means smaller houses get built, basic food stuffs are slightly more expensive, higher minimum wages from market forces, less CO2 for less global warming.
Make no mistake. Letting in illegals does nothing but add corrosive economic pressures and leverage on our society- oddly with the lowest/poorest taking the biggest hit. Upper-middle/business class makes out the best with cheap labor. All while we brain drain and relieve the pressure on ass-backward economies who are only hurt by, not helped by immigration.
The Progressives are always looking towards the EU for solutions. Oddly, they get food with out having to resort to Mexicans? They have never imported labor at the rates that we have.
Ever notice those that support mass immigration never have to compete with or live among them? Elitist at is finest.
Never mind how they vote...
Based on the industry I work in, Americans refuse to do the work, so your statement is correct in a "perfect" world. Based on current estimates we have 11.7 million illegals employed, current unemployment is 4.9%. Oddly the illegals make up 4%, so you are saying that if remove the illegals, all the unemployed Americans will go to work? That is a pipe dream at best. You are living in a fantasy.
If you believe it is that low then I have a bridge to sell you.'
Wages will be higher, crime, taxes, traffic as well as the cost of goods will be lower, and tens of millions of would be leftist voters will not be able to rise against us...
Its a win/win for everyone but the Traitors of the nation.
Many of you that are around 30 years of age will be amazed that long before we had a huge illegal immigrant problem, the lawns got mowed and the toilets got scrubbed here in America. Fruit got picked, too.
This idea that we cannot survive without the illegal's labor is not altogether true.
How did we survive before they came? Again, all of these tasks got done before them!
In high school, I mowed lawns and painted houses. Many high school aged white kids did these jobs. Hell...they paid better than slogging grease at a fast food joint.
You mean "the crops did not rot in the fields"?
So you are saying people are repeating lies that are leading to the death of America so a few scum bags can make a quick buck?
Also Pool Boy, in the South West even an Assistant will make great money.
Don't tell me we cannot get by without them - this is a huge myth.
Leftist and Crony Capitalist can not get by without them, more reasons to send them back, also we will soon have robots.
The writing is on the wall. If you get tired of some sort of manual labor job and want a free ride here is what you need to do;
If you want free stuff wail, tear your clothes and gnash your teeth, moan about how repressed you are and vote for the Progressives. The end result is you no longer need a job, you get free stuff. Your kids can sling some dope on the corner and you can run a few scams on your taxes and on the welfare people, before you know it you're making more money than you ever did at a 9 to 5 job.
It all works pretty well until your culture starts celebrating this stuff. Your families break up, your neighborhood is reduced to rubble and your kid is doing 5 to 10 at the State House or worse gets shot by someone else wanting that corner.
One Culture dies and another comes in from South of the border and the cycle is repeated.
Escaping this crap requires a bit more dignity and some integrity, otherwise there you go.
Its easier to wallow in a swamp then shoot for the stars, that is why few cultures are the former and Western Culture is the latter.
Ever notice those that support mass immigration never have to compete with or live among them? Elitist at is finest.
Never mind how they vote...
Good point about mass immigration supporters. If Hollywood (or whatever the Mexican equivalent is) actors, blog writers, journalists and politicians were pouring in by the millions, we all damn well know that there'd be no support among these groups for mass illegal immigration (i.e. "amnesty"/compassion/etc.)
Even if the odd doctor or whatever does enter illegally (let's play hypotheticals for a minute), they would be barred from competing by even more laws and regulations than the usual manual laborer. Insurance providers, medical associations, state laws, federal laws, etc. would not allow this.
Similarly for politicians, laws prevent illegals (or even legal immigrants, depending on the position) from running. Journalists, I guess are effectively protected by the fluent English, no accent thing.
If you believe it is that low then I have a bridge to sell you.'
The official unemployment figures are laughable, and have been for years. The amount of people dropping out of the workforce, labor-seeking pool is staggering.
Many of you that are around 30 years of age will be amazed that long before we had a huge illegal immigrant problem, the lawns got mowed and the toilets got scrubbed here in America. Fruit got picked, too.
This idea that we cannot survive without the illegal's labor is not altogether true.
How did we survive before they came? Again, all of these tasks got done before them!
In high school, I mowed lawns and painted houses. Many high school aged white kids did these jobs. Hell...they paid better than slogging grease at a fast food joint.
Don't tell me we cannot get by without them - this is a huge myth.
This notion that illegal immigration is somehow good, or even necessary for American prosperity is crazy.
Even if America needed mass numbers of low-skilled workers (which it actually has an excess of) letting in illegals, not enforcing the laws, letting the border be trampled on, etc. is absolutely insane, both in the short and long term.
Look, I get outsourcing abroad, I do. But there, the call center workers are all accounted for, aren't running around murdering and raping inside your borders. (Not saying that's all or the majority of illegals, by the way).
I think that a part of the reason that the welfare rolls are swelling is because of illegal immigration. The Progressives love illegal immigration - that alone should be enough to know that it is disastrous. The reason they love it is that it weakens the country. They are looking for crises. That's the only way to break the back of the West and usher in their Utopia (which entails total disarmament of the peasants).
Foreign aid is bad for both the donor and the recipient nations. The only ones who benefit are the politicians of both nations and those who are involved with administering and dispensing said aid. Their salaries, opportunities for enriching themselves and personal sense of moral exaltation all come at the greater cost to the taxpayer and to the detriment of people living under the well-funded tyrants of the recipient nations.
http://youtu.be/QJEP1BzSeMQ
Uncle Milt nails it on the head with the 'Welfare Establishment'.
Same reason we choose to not close the boarder, not win the war on drugs, and to a lesser extent not win the war on terror.
We could do all of these things, but there is WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY to much money in NOT winning them, but "fighting" them forever and ever and ever.
Many of you that are around 30 years of age will be amazed that long before we had a huge illegal immigrant problem, the lawns got mowed and the toilets got scrubbed here in America. Fruit got picked, too.
This idea that we cannot survive without the illegal's labor is not altogether true.
How did we survive before they came? Again, all of these tasks got done before them!
In high school, I mowed lawns and painted houses. Many high school aged white kids did these jobs. Hell...they paid better than slogging grease at a fast food joint.
Don't tell me we cannot get by without them - this is a huge myth.
Today most papers are delivered by adults, not kids, most lawns are mowed by adults, not kids, most of the McJobs are held be adults, not kids (by kids I mean high schoolers). When I was in high school the dream job was working in at a filling station - those babies are long gone run out of town by WalMart Tire and Lube Express, Kwik Trip, etc.
So what you have to ask yourself is why are grown adults mowing lawns? Working the counter at Mickey D's and clerking at convenience stores?
I don't think it is ALL the fault of the immigrants, illegal or otherwise. Easy answer, though.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-14-16, 22:07
What I see is that the risk-reward machine is broken in the US. It has gotten riskier to start new, real businesses. Way higher barriers to, entry for small firms. That reduces how dynamic and responsive our economy is and how many jobs and wealth we can create.
AnthonyCumia
03-14-16, 22:20
Good point about mass immigration supporters. If Hollywood (or whatever the Mexican equivalent is) actors, blog writers, journalists and politicians were pouring in by the millions, we all damn well know that there'd be no support among these groups for mass illegal immigration (i.e. "amnesty"/compassion/etc.)
Even if the odd doctor or whatever does enter illegally (let's play hypotheticals for a minute), they would be barred from competing by even more laws and regulations than the usual manual laborer. Insurance providers, medical associations, state laws, federal laws, etc. would not allow this.
Similarly for politicians, laws prevent illegals (or even legal immigrants, depending on the position) from running. Journalists, I guess are effectively protected by the fluent English, no accent thing.
Their was that illegal in L.A of all towns that sued and became a lawyer...An illegal immigrant lawyer. The state of insanity knows no bonds.
Journalists at speaking outfits are being replaced by Mexican Journalists, its really funny.
The official unemployment figures are laughable, and have been for years. The amount of people dropping out of the workforce, labor-seeking pool is staggering.
Yeah, its not like goverment officials would ever lie to hide failure of polices right?
This notion that illegal immigration is somehow good, or even necessary for American prosperity is crazy.
Even if America needed mass numbers of low-skilled workers (which it actually has an excess of) letting in illegals, not enforcing the laws, letting the border be trampled on, etc. is absolutely insane, both in the short and long term.
More over what are we going to do when automation hits? We are going to have millions of unemployable Americans.
Look, I get outsourcing abroad, I do. But there, the call center workers are all accounted for, aren't running around murdering and raping inside your borders. (Not saying that's all or the majority of illegals, by the way).
I think that a part of the reason that the welfare rolls are swelling is because of illegal immigration. The Progressives love illegal immigration - that alone should be enough to know that it is disastrous. The reason they love it is that it weakens the country. They are looking for crises. That's the only way to break the back of the West and usher in their Utopia (which entails total disarmament of the peasants).
At the end of the day it's morally insane to make the guy next to you compete with peasants living in hovels who are willing to work 12 hour shifts seven days a week with no environmental standards. You can trade, carefully, with countries with similar environmental and cultural standards, but beyond that your default position should be mercantilism.
Specialization is important for economic progress. Stability through a strong sense of social identity/responsibility is necessary for specialization. Free international trade destroys social identity and responsibility as much as open immigration does.
But mixed together they are a special Hell on Earth.
It's ironic: you can trade freely only with people you share a pre-rational nationalist bond with.
Foreign aid is bad for both the donor and the recipient nations. The only ones who benefit are the politicians of both nations and those who are involved with administering and dispensing said aid. Their salaries, opportunities for enriching themselves and personal sense of moral exaltation all come at the greater cost to the taxpayer and to the detriment of people living under the well-funded tyrants of the recipient nations.
I also say we could have cities on the Moon and Mars for what we waste on Foreign Aid.
Notice how those that support it would never give their own money to support it, what does that tell you?
AnthonyCumia
03-14-16, 22:23
What I see is that the risk-reward machine is broken in the US. It has gotten riskier to start new, real businesses. Way higher barriers to, entry for small firms. That reduces how dynamic and responsive our economy is and how many jobs and wealth we can create.
The poor and stupid think it is for their benefit, and the Wealth and vindictive know it is to protect them from competition.
This sounds great and all, but...
We cant reform a county like Mexico without completely destroying what exist and building a new foundation upon the ashes.
Mexico isn't like the USA. It a whole country of rural communities, no different then the Middle East, while there maybe a central government it's power limited due to few resources to enforce its rules, that's why cartels thrive. The Mexican army isn't everywhere at all times, most of the time the army is in convoys traveling from town to town. With a few metropolitan areas most of the communities are forced to a police themselves.
Mexico should be s powerhouse in the would based off natural resources alone. What Mexico could offer is beyond belief.
Mexico isn't inherently a horrible place, the whole drug trade in Mexico is fueled by the drug use in America, that's another problem with this, to clean up the streets of Mexico, we have to clean up ours first. The United States of American is Mexicos biggest problem. We drive all their major issues. We fix ours, we fix theirs.
But like I said in the beginning trying to reform Mexico is like trying to reform the middle east. It's such a daunting task most have no idea. A wall won't fix that. We would almost have to buy portions of Mexico, set up local governments, and then send in the National Guard to take the country street by street before we push the border back. This would take years before we could claim wash state one by one.
I could write a novel of how I feel about this, I agree something has to be done but it's insane how hard it would be, but imma end this here before I get too emotionally invested into this topic.
AnthonyCumia
03-14-16, 23:07
Today most papers are delivered by adults, not kids, most lawns are mowed by adults, not kids, most of the McJobs are held be adults, not kids (by kids I mean high schoolers). When I was in high school the dream job was working in at a filling station - those babies are long gone run out of town by WalMart Tire and Lube Express, Kwik Trip, etc.
So what you have to ask yourself is why are grown adults mowing lawns? Working the counter at Mickey D's and clerking at convenience stores?
I don't think it is ALL the fault of the immigrants, illegal or otherwise. Easy answer, though.
Because in addition to the mass immigration, the cost of regulations, high taxes and the cost of college has made it in possible for people to get ahead?
AnthonyCumia
03-14-16, 23:12
This sounds great and all, but...
We cant reform a county like Mexico without completely destroying what exist and building a new foundation upon the ashes.
That assumes we would even want to do such a thing...We do not.
Mexico isn't like the USA. It a whole country of rural communities, no different then the Middle East, while there maybe a central government it's power limited due to few resources to enforce its rules, that's why cartels thrive. The Mexican army isn't everywhere at all times, most of the time the army is in convoys traveling from town to town. With a few metropolitan areas most of the communities are forced to a police themselves.
Even if it was, they would buy them off.
Mexico should be s powerhouse in the would based off natural resources alone. What Mexico could offer is beyond belief.
What could be...Truly a wonderful place, but sadly marxism has claimed it and turned it into a Nation wide "peoples farm".
Mexico isn't inherently a horrible place, the whole drug trade in Mexico is fueled by the drug use in America, that's another problem with this, to clean up the streets of Mexico, we have to clean up ours first. The United States of American is Mexicos biggest problem. We drive all their major issues. We fix ours, we fix theirs.
But like I said in the beginning trying to reform Mexico is like trying to reform the middle east. It's such a daunting task most have no idea. A wall won't fix that. We would almost have to buy portions of Mexico, set up local governments, and then send in the National Guard to take the country street by street before we push the border back. This would take years before we could claim wash state one by one.
I could write a novel of how I feel about this, I agree something has to be done but it's insane how hard it would be, but imma end this here before I get too emotionally invested into this topic.
You can not reform or change Mexican culture, the people their are the reason why Mexico is Mexico. As soon as you expect the fact that the people of the 3rd world are the reason why things are as hellish as they are, everything makes sense.
We are not the "World`s Police" nor are we Superman, if they want a future that is better they have to work and fight for it.
Just as we must protect our nation and protect and secure Liberty as we can not allow the vast inheritance that our Founding and Forefathers have given us, the greatest inheritance in the history of Western Civilization and People, the sum of generations of blood, sweat, tears, innovation, prayer and determination and the countless lives of brave service me to be robbed from us by the invading hordes that which to rob us of our Land, Liberty, and our Birthrights
http://www.lagzero.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/1376018709043.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
03-15-16, 02:05
Mexico is weird, so is our relationship with them. We (the US) bitch about the illegals, their politics, the crappy border towns (and all of it is true), but we spend a gazillion bucks to fly to the Mayan Riviera and Baja and drop a ton of money on tourism.
That's because the US dollars still goes a long way in Mexico, not many other places in the world Americans can go on an "exotic" vacation for that cheap. Personally I've never been to Mexico and have no desire to ever go. I like my life and liberty too much.
Moose-Knuckle
03-15-16, 02:08
Based on the industry I work in, Americans refuse to do the work, so your statement is correct in a "perfect" world. Based on current estimates we have 11.7 million illegals employed, current unemployment is 4.9%. Oddly the illegals make up 4%, so you are saying that if remove the illegals, all the unemployed Americans will go to work? That is a pipe dream at best. You are living in a fantasy.
Speaking of living in a fantasy, the "11 million illegals" number is at least a decade old and it was grossly underestimated back then. That is the number our .gov keeps regurgitating along with special interest groups and establishment elected officials. In the real world it's more like five times that amount.
Moose-Knuckle
03-15-16, 02:45
We cant reform a county like Mexico without completely destroying what exist and building a new foundation upon the ashes.
Agreed, or we could wall them off, leave them the hell to their own devices, and implement no fly zones and naval blockades. It worked on Cuba.
It a whole country of rural communities, no different then the Middle East, while there maybe a central government it's power limited due to few resources to enforce its rules, that's why cartels thrive.
I think it has something more to do with plata o plomo and corruption.
The Mexican army isn't everywhere at all times, most of the time the army is in convoys traveling from town to town.
The Mexican Army to include armed transports and helos have made multiple incursions over the border into sovereign US territory providing security for narco shipments.
Mexico isn't inherently a horrible place, . . .
It's always been a horrible place. Thousands of years before the Spanish arrived in what is now considered Mexico, the aboriginal people of Mesoamerica enslaved each other and practiced human sacrifice in pyramid temple complexes. Not to mention the droughts and famines that wiped out whole people groups.
. . . the whole drug trade in Mexico is fueled by the drug use in America . . .
No, the drug trade in Mexico is fueled by their own G R E E D. No one is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to produce illegal narcotics. This is lunacy. If Mexico didn't export their national product into the US which has driven down street values for decades now there wouldn't be so many weak willed Americans using.
The United States of American is Mexicos biggest problem.
MEXICO is MEXICO's biggest problem and one of our's.
Linebacker
03-15-16, 02:48
Viva la Trump!
Today most papers are delivered by adults, not kids, most lawns are mowed by adults, not kids, most of the McJobs are held be adults, not kids (by kids I mean high schoolers). When I was in high school the dream job was working in at a filling station - those babies are long gone run out of town by WalMart Tire and Lube Express, Kwik Trip, etc.
So what you have to ask yourself is why are grown adults mowing lawns? Working the counter at Mickey D's and clerking at convenience stores?
I don't think it is ALL the fault of the immigrants, illegal or otherwise. Easy answer, though.
That is a good observation. I don't think the answer is that all of what you listed is due to illegal immigration, but it's certainly a part of it.
Other parts include:
- a generation (or two) pushed into post-secondary education, convinced that they are above working as commoners, spending years learning the ins and outs of fantasies rather than tangible applicable skills. This results in people who are unable, or in many cases unwilling to do things that they did in years past. When the reality hits home eventually, then some of these people do end up doing work that teenagers did in decades past.
- minimum wage laws. When the minimum wage is raised, it makes hiring people who are worth less than that minimum wage a losing proposition. If the wage is very low, adults would be less likely to take the job than younger, less experiences, less knowledgable, less productive workers. I don't think this explains everything, but it's a part of it. If you're paying $1/hr, how many adults do you think you'd get applying vs if you're paying $7.25/hr?
brickboy240
03-15-16, 10:39
I have a theory that if the govt cut off the give-aways like welfare, food stamps, etc....Americans WOULD do jobs like mow lawns and clean bathrooms.
This might take a while but when those sitting around realize that if they want to eat, they HAVE to work....they WILL eventually go to work.
The mindset of the poor and lazy Americans needs to be changed. The left and big govt has trained many to think that they don't have to work or that society owes them these freebies.
While this might never happen, because the American left see this as cruel, this is what needs to change if we want to end this dependent culture we have.
Today most papers are delivered by adults, not kids, most lawns are mowed by adults, not kids, most of the McJobs are held be adults, not kids (by kids I mean high schoolers). When I was in high school the dream job was working in at a filling station - those babies are long gone run out of town by WalMart Tire and Lube Express, Kwik Trip, etc.
So what you have to ask yourself is why are grown adults mowing lawns? Working the counter at Mickey D's and clerking at convenience stores?
I don't think it is ALL the fault of the immigrants, illegal or otherwise. Easy answer, though.
This is a good observation and IMO supports the theory that we have systemic mismanagement and failure instead of the distracting narrow focus folks want to fantasize about.
Some time ago, back round Truman I think (Mr. Americas business is business guy) a conscious decision was made to set up the USA as the middleman for the world. You start seeing the trend of higher education being the goal, blue collar jobs not a goal... Once that took hold we needed to create the jobs for the business class and eliminate the blue collar jobs. Outsourcing is the result of that. America got geared up to be the worlds middleman. Make nothing but have as much stuff go through your as possible. All fine and dandy till problems crop up. When the financial fecal matter hits the impeller what's the first thing to get cut. Non value added services otherwise known and middlemen. Lots of corporate layoffs with little demand for the skill set. This is why you have adults working at Walmart, McDonald's, aka the underemployed. Face it, for a few generations the American economy has been ass raped by the likes of Soros, GE, GM and a lot of other folks (politicians) who could really give a rats ass about the country and only care about their own personal goals. It's a managed systemic failure that can't be stopped by narrow focus wet dreams.
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/WH1wFSC06EerF6pl5oLCOiUNx04=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4239833/1-countries-scaled-to-economic-aid-from-usa-a800.jpg
Howdy J-Dub,
When it comes to foreign aid, does anyone wonder why we don't invest more in our neighbors to the south in foreign aid? Im not saying I agree with foreign aid at all (I think that we need to take care of home first) but if we're just going to keep handing out money, why wouldn't we invest in Mexico?
Mexico could be an unbelievable asset to the south. Not only do they have the whole tourist thing, they have the population in Mexico City to be a manufacture powerhouse (ie save on shipping cost compared to China).
Why wouldn't our political electorate cut aid to African countries and send it to Mexico? If their economy improved, in theory illegal immigration would decrease....one would think.
Plus who doesn't like good Mexican food?? Tacos al pastor, barbacoa, carnitas, hell even their Coca-Cola is better!
If The narco state did not exist, Mexico would be a hell of a neighbor, could aid money help in rooting out the problem, or would reform be needed in the States (in regards to the war on drugs...which Im all for)?
P.S. this post was fueled by Dos XX amber
For one I love Dos XX Amber.
2.) Our foreign aide that We give to other countries, especially countries that do NOT like Us is a bribe, nothing more, nothing less.
We do it so Our military can use their airspace, seaports, land, etc., so Our CIA operators/PMC can operate ( no pun intended ) over the law.
How many times a week, some where around the world does Our clandestine services kidnap, assassinate, etc a citizen in their own country with that country looking the other way? It happens all the time.
Why do you think Saudi puts up with the infidels in there country? Because of bribes.......uh........ I mean foreign aide.
Paul
AnthonyCumia
03-16-16, 01:47
This is a good observation and IMO supports the theory that we have systemic mismanagement and failure instead of the distracting narrow focus folks want to fantasize about.
Some time ago, back round Truman I think (Mr. Americas business is business guy) a conscious decision was made to set up the USA as the middleman for the world. You start seeing the trend of higher education being the goal, blue collar jobs not a goal... Once that took hold we needed to create the jobs for the business class and eliminate the blue collar jobs. Outsourcing is the result of that. America got geared up to be the worlds middleman. Make nothing but have as much stuff go through your as possible. All fine and dandy till problems crop up. When the financial fecal matter hits the impeller what's the first thing to get cut. Non value added services otherwise known and middlemen. Lots of corporate layoffs with little demand for the skill set. This is why you have adults working at Walmart, McDonald's, aka the underemployed. Face it, for a few generations the American economy has been ass raped by the likes of Soros, GE, GM and a lot of other folks (politicians) who could really give a rats ass about the country and only care about their own personal goals. It's a managed systemic failure that can't be stopped by narrow focus wet dreams.
That is why we need to do away with those traitors.
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