View Full Version : A Mag coupler that really works
rifleshooter
08-19-08, 16:28
http://www.zahal.org/FAB/mce.htm
http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/photobug4741/?action=view¤t=SWMP15T.jpg.jpg
Have you tried this thing?
I know mag cinch used to get comments along the lines of.... no matter how tight you get it, the mags will still slip.
I have used the Israeli sheet metal mag clamp with some 100mph tape. As mag clamps go, it's not a bad option.
I have not tried this but I do/have sell/sold it. I have had a few customers come back and buy more after trying it. That is all I can say.
Chad
rifleshooter
08-19-08, 16:44
Have you tried this thing?
I know mag cinch used to get comments along the lines of.... no matter how tight you get it, the mags will still slip.
I have used the Israeli sheet metal mag clamp with some 100mph tape. As mag clamps go, it's not a bad option.
From my picture I have bought a bunch of them and there is no way they will allow the Mags to become lose. If the Israel military uses them they are good to go.;)
How are mag couplers better than a Redi-Mag?
rifleshooter
08-19-08, 17:10
How are mag couplers better than a Redi-Mag?
IMO The Redi Mag is a hunk of high priced metal hanging and sticking out off the side of your rifle, and changing the Mag from it just leaves it and empty hunk of useless metal hanging and sticking out off the side of your rifle.:rolleyes:
Mags coupled together give you two Mags to quickly use and if you have two more coupled you have more quick fire power ready to use.
The Redi Mag might and I say "MIGHT" be good for Police work but for any real combat use it's not my idea of a useful item.:) I am sure others will differ with me on this but it's what I think.:)
but for any real combat use it's not my idea of a useful item
Are there mag pouches that hold coupled mags? I'm asking, because my experience with coupled mags has been dismal, at best. I haven't used the Redi-Mag, but I see PSD and military personnel using them, so I thought maybe it might not be a bad idea. I am, however, still not convinced I need two mags on the weapon at one time at this point.
I've seen these couplers in action, or lack thereof.
Yes, they can come loose.
Yes, the top round still jumps off and gets in the way when trying to load.
Interestingly, a mag-cinch would render an Easy Mag pretty useless and/or vice-versa.
I have tried a few "top" brands, and even when I found one that keeps the mags from slipping, I still decided it isn't worth the extra weight and the way it slightly changes the balance of my LE M4. Personally, I'm sticking with practicing speed reloads (instead of practicing two different types of reloading - I have to keep it simple as possible). If anyone wants one, let me know . . . I'm probably gonna give em away to good M4C members who have a use for them.
My experience with mag couplers was horrible. I can remember going through a Barnhart carbine class with some Mag-Cinch. I ended up cutting them off within the first hour of the class. They blew chunks.
IMO The Redi Mag is a hunk of high priced metal hanging and sticking out off the side of your rifle, and changing the Mag from it just leaves it and empty hunk of useless metal hanging and sticking out off the side of your rifle.:rolleyes:
Mags coupled together give you two Mags to quickly use and if you have two more coupled you have more quick fire power ready to use.
The Redi Mag might and I say "MIGHT" be good for Police work but for any real combat use it's not my idea of a useful item.:) I am sure others will differ with me on this but it's what I think.:)
Is this knowledge gleaned from your vast experience working with the AR platform?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15681
06-13-2008, 02:30 PM - New member buying my first AR15
Hello happy to join you AR people. I am getting ready to buy my first AR15 been reading as much as I can and looking at as many ARs as I can.
Lots of things to learn about the ARs.;)
SWATcop556
08-20-08, 00:45
Spank!
+1
When he flopped them out I heard those balls hit the table all the way down here in Texas!!!
I wondered what that noise was-thanks.:D
Ouch .... settle down boys. :D
To the OP, those do look similar to the mag-cinch. :) but those look more sleek without the bulky protrusions on the mag-cinch.
The mag couplers do have there limitations, and there are some good and bad versions out there.
But to me, it fills a specific role. I keep it in my Home D gun for grab and go purposes.... not bug out, but grab and go see who's trying to break in the house outside or something.
If circumstances permit me to carry spare mags on my body, then I'll go with a single mag in the gun. The couplers are an option... at tool in the box. Even if I have to mess with the round in the top of mag #2, I'll have something more than an empty gun.
The mag couplers do have there limitations, and there are some good and bad versions out there.
But to me, it fills a specific role. I keep it in my Home D gun for grab and go purposes.... not bug out, but grab and go see who's trying to break in the house outside or something.
If circumstances permit me to carry spare mags on my body, then I'll go with a single mag in the gun. The couplers are an option... at tool in the box. Even if I have to mess with the round in the top of mag #2, I'll have something more than an empty gun.
Do you train to deal with the first round jump? I've seen it happen in mags loaded from 6 rounds on up to 30.
There is one way a person could avoid the round jump issue. That would be to couple pmags together and leave the cap on the mag that isn't in the gun. Then if you attached some sort of loop to the pmag cap hole on the release tab, when it came time to change mags, you just pull back and up on the loop, the cap comes off and you can switch the mags. Is that very fast? I have no idea since I don't have the stuff to try it and I'm still not sure of what to think on coupled mags. Then one would also have to deal with the loop on the cap catching on stuff as well. It's just an idea I had that's all.
The problem with coupled mags, as I encountered it, was that I have this empty mag getting in the way. I have not tried the Redi-Mag, but it certainly eliminates that issue.
Do you train to deal with the first round jump? I've seen it happen in mags loaded from 6 rounds on up to 30.
Yes. Sometimes I actually put my support hand thumb on the bullet tips of mag 2 (as part of a magwell hold) to hold it in during firing. I also rock the 2nd mag into the mag well like inserting an AK mag. This causes the inside of the front of the magwell to push the top round back far enough to cycle properly. I also periodically push the top round back between if there's a pause in firing. I'm just very aware of it.
There is one way a person could avoid the round jump issue. That would be to couple pmags together and leave the cap on the mag that isn't in the gun. Then if you attached some sort of loop to the pmag cap hole on the release tab, when it came time to change mags, you just pull back and up on the loop, the cap comes off and you can switch the mags. Is that very fast? I have no idea since I don't have the stuff to try it and I'm still not sure of what to think on coupled mags. Then one would also have to deal with the loop on the cap catching on stuff as well. It's just an idea I had that's all.
That would work, but there are no pmag compatable mag couplers that I'm aware of. Even the MAG GRIP won't work with them.
The problem with coupled mags, as I encountered it, was that I have this empty mag getting in the way.
In the way of what? I've never had any problems with the empty being in the way when it's on the ejection port side.
rifleshooter
08-20-08, 11:13
I think my thread has been highjacked.:rolleyes:
Right! Lets get back to talking about mag couplers!
Right! Lets get back to talking about mag couplers!
we weren't? :eek:
rifleshooter
08-20-08, 11:37
we weren't? :eek:
And now a few thoughts from our own RAMBO.;)
And now a few thoughts from our own RAMBO.;)
You know, I've gone out of my way to not even bother bringing up or responding to most of your foolishness, and you now have to try to drag me in.
Why don't you address the issues that the other people brought up in this thread then? You bought your first AR what, a couple of months ago now? And you're already qualified to speak about what makes a good mag coupler (or for that matter, a good mag like in your repeated attempts at Easymag shilling)?
So, what is it in your vast 2 months of experience with the AR platform that leads you to believe that this particular mag cinch doesn't suffer the same problems as other versions? How many rounds have you put downrange with them trouble-free? How many reloads have you performed with them to ensure that this version somehow addresses the fatal flaw of all mag-couplers; first round jump?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Personally, I've seen exactly this version slip and I've seen the top round on the spare mag jump forward (which isn't really fair, since this product admittedly does NOTHING to address that problem) causing problems with the reload.
In the way of what?
The ejection port cover.
Again, I'm not sure I even like the idea of an extra mag hanging off the weapon, regardless of where it resides. However, my experience with mags in a pouch on the stock and the Mag-Cinch have not been stellar. I would try the the Redi-Mag, but the issue with the bolt catch needs to be resolved in a better manner than what I have seen currently available. I will try it if/when Magpul releases the BAD.
rifleshooter
08-20-08, 12:20
You know, I've gone out of my way to not even bother bringing up or responding to most of your foolishness, and you now have to try to drag me in.
Why don't you address the issues that the other people brought up in this thread then? You bought your first AR what, a couple of months ago now? And you're already qualified to speak about what makes a good mag coupler (or for that matter, a good mag like in your repeated attempts at Easymag shilling)?
So, what is it in your vast 2 months of experience with the AR platform that leads you to believe that this particular mag cinch doesn't suffer the same problems as other versions? How many rounds have you put downrange with them trouble-free? How many reloads have you performed with them to ensure that this version somehow addresses the fatal flaw of all mag-couplers; first round jump?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Personally, I've seen exactly this version slip and I've seen the top round on the spare mag jump forward (which isn't really fair, since this product admittedly does NOTHING to address that problem) causing problems with the reload.
Well I am a fast learner;) And from reading all the posts and their threads in this forum I have quickly gained a vast knowledge of the rifle know as the AR over the past two happy Months.
I even feel I have become even a bit of and expert of the AR I can even now quickly remove my bolt carrier group and replace in blindfolded.:)
Also after watching some of the great action movies like the new Dark Night and the Shooter and some of great older ones like Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan I also now consider myself a real combat ready game player.:o
Oh about the reload question do you mean reloading spent Ammo. or just reloading my AR and H&K Mags?
Well I am a fast learner;) And from reading all the posts and their threads in this forum I have quickly gained a vast knowledge of the rifle know as the AR over the past two happy Months.
I even feel I have become even a bit of and expert of the AR I can even now quickly remove my bolt carrier group and replace in blindfolded.:)
Also after watching some of the great action movies like the new Dark Night and the Shooter and some of great older ones like Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan I also now consider myself a real combat ready game player.:o
Oh about the reload question do you mean reloading spent Ammo. or just reloading my AR and H&K Mags?
You're shittin' me, right?! That's the most moronic response I've read in a long, long time. Son, if you want anyone on this board or any other to take you serious, you'd best quit typing. :rolleyes:
The ejection port cover.
I see. With a Mag Grip you position the mags as high/low as you want them... so that part is not a problem.
Again... I use the couplers/clams in a specific setting. I agree that the extra mag hanging off the gun is a pain in the ass. But if you need the extra ammo it's worth it.
Originally Posted by rifleshooter
Well I am a fast learner And from reading all the posts and their threads in this forum I have quickly gained a vast knowledge of the rifle know as the AR over the past two happy Months.
I even feel I have become even a bit of and expert of the AR I can even now quickly remove my bolt carrier group and replace in blindfolded.
Also after watching some of the great action movies like the new Dark Night and the Shooter and some of great older ones like Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan I also now consider myself a real combat ready game player.
Oh about the reload question do you mean reloading spent Ammo. or just reloading my AR and H&K Mags?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/MarkD/MOTIVATION/motivator8516749.jpg
Well I am a fast learner;) And from reading all the posts and their threads in this forum I have quickly gained a vast knowledge of the rifle know as the AR over the past two happy Months.
I even feel I have become even a bit of and expert of the AR I can even now quickly remove my bolt carrier group and replace in blindfolded.:)
Also after watching some of the great action movies like the new Dark Night and the Shooter and some of great older ones like Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan I also now consider myself a real combat ready game player.:o
Oh about the reload question do you mean reloading spent Ammo. or just reloading my AR and H&K Mags?
Rifleshooter, if you were a fast learner you would have learned a lesson from this thread.
Please advise what practical experience (i.e. Mil, LE, or Practical like Rob_S has) you can list in your 2 months to get this knowledge? Something real that involves doing, not reading threads and posts on the errornet?
Please advise how many rounds you have fired in established training?
Please advise what training you do?
Advise how you got to be such a Tactical Superstar in the space of 2 whole months? Will you continue this training once you have to go back to school?
Inquring minds want to know....
Please, boards such as this encourage participation. But asshattery like what is developing from your attitude (calling Rob_S our Rambo in these circumstances is very unproffessional.) ia what drives people away and is why TOS is the way it is...
Has anyone tried the MagGrip? I never had round jump issues with my HK, but certainly did with my Colt, so just stopped using them, (sheet metal clamps). I did try demigod's idea with rocking the mag in, but never got consistent with it. I have been contemplating the RediMag, but as much as I understand R&D, manufacturing and marketing, I simply cannot justify the price - seems steep to me. I suppose if my life depended on it, no price would be too steep, but it doesn't - so it is.....
Has anyone tried the MagGrip?
From shellbacktactical? That's what I run. It's rock solid. But that makes the top round movement that much worse.
From shellbacktactical? That's what I run. It's rock solid. But that makes the top round movement that much worse.
That's the one...Thanks.
It's not even close to the same, but right now, I carry a spare magazine on my buttstock in a Spec-Ops ReadyFireMode, one in the rifle and and one in my hand. My SOCOM-16 is my "bump in the night gun" and I know carrying a mag in my weak hand, while holding the rifle is a opportunity to drop the mag, but so far, (in training anyway), it hasn't happened.
The thought is in my mind of transitioning my Anvil build to my "bump gun" and it would be nice to carry a spare. Looks like I may pony up for RediMag whether I like it or not....
Rifleshooter, if you were a fast learner you would have learned a lesson from this thread.
Please advise what practical experience (i.e. Mil, LE, or Practical like Rob_S has) you can list in your 2 months to get this knowledge? Something real that involves doing, not reading threads and posts on the errornet?
Please advise how many rounds you have fired in established training?
Please advise what training you do?
Advise how you got to be such a Tactical Superstar in the space of 2 whole months? Will you continue this training once you have to go back to school?
Inquring minds want to know....
Please, boards such as this encourage participation. But asshattery like what is developing from your attitude (calling Rob_S our Rambo in these circumstances is very unproffessional.) ia what drives people away and is why TOS is the way it is...
Brother your wasting air on him he has been asked this before he replys with the same old top secret routine etc.. and has left a lot of us some pretty rotten PM's and the like to several of us,.
Banished to ARFCOM he should be!
Brother your wasting air on him he has been asked this before he replys with the same old top secret routine etc.. and has left a lot of us some pretty rotten PM's and the like to several of us,.
I find the "Ignore List" feature of vBulletin to be quite useful: https://www.m4carbine.net/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_troublesome_users
I even feel I have become even a bit of and expert of the AR I can even now quickly remove my bolt carrier group and replace in blindfolded.:)
So freaking what? That ain't nothing special. Hell, there are people here that can probably build an AR blindfolded.
Also after watching some of the great action movies like the new Dark Night and the Shooter and some of great older ones like Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan I also now consider myself a real combat ready game player.:o
WTF? Ooh, ooh, you play video games and watch movies. Doesn't mean anything.
Oh about the reload question do you mean reloading spent Ammo. or just reloading my AR and H&K Mags
WTF? And HK mags suck. PMAGS pwn them, so to speak. This thread's about mag couplers to keep spare mags at the ready, in case you need to be hit by the freakin' clue bat. Not anything else was said about reloading ammunition.
http://www.grumpstump.com/squidoo/duct_tape.jpg
It'll also work pressed into service as a mag coupler.
I've been studying up on ARs for years, and I'll readily admit I don't know near everything about them. If I have a question, I'll come here and ASK about it, because there are several here that actually know what the hell they are talking about, because they work with the stuff every day.
Go to arfcom if you want to talk about the greatness of the actually not-so-great products you love so much.
God, it feels good to smack someone down on the internet. Much like clubbing baby seals.
rifleshooter
08-20-08, 15:49
So freaking what? That ain't nothing special. Hell, there are people here that can probably build an AR blindfolded.
WTF? Ooh, ooh, you play video games and watch movies. Doesn't mean anything.
WTF? And HK mags suck. PMAGS pwn them, so to speak. This thread's about mag couplers to keep spare mags at the ready, in case you need to be hit by the freakin' clue bat. Not anything else was said about reloading ammunition.
http://www.grumpstump.com/squidoo/duct_tape.jpg
It'll also work pressed into service as a mag coupler.
I've been studying up on ARs for years, and I'll readily admit I don't know near everything about them. If I have a question, I'll come here and ASK about it, because there are several here that actually know what the hell they are talking about, because they work with the stuff every day.
Go to arfcom if you want to talk about the greatness of the actually not-so-great products you love so much.
God, it feels good to smack someone down on the internet. Much like clubbing baby seals.
Thank you :)
Brother your wasting air on him he has been asked this before he replys with the same old top secret routine etc.. and has left a lot of us some pretty rotten PM's and the like to several of us,.
That's very unfortunate.
Mods, is there a reason he hasn't been banned?
http://www.zahal.org/FAB/mce.htm
http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u199/photobug4741/?action=view¤t=SWMP15T.jpg.jpg
These suck and are a horrible idea. Next question.
C4
rifleshooter
08-20-08, 16:55
These suck and are a horrible idea. Next question.
C4
Yeah next question is....Just what do you really know about this product?
And another question for you.
Care to inform everyone just why you dislike it?
Yeah next question is....Just what do you really know about this product?
And another question for you.
Care to inform everyone just why you dislike it?
I have used all kinds of variations of this product made by several companies (inlcuding magcinch).
The mags slide around, the empty mag can block controls and you there is no pouch (that is any good) for when the mags are coupled.
C4
rifleshooter
08-20-08, 17:13
I have used all kinds of variations of this product made by several companies (inlcuding magcinch).
The mags slide around, the empty mag can block controls and you there is no pouch (that is any good) for when the mags are coupled.
C4
You have used this exact item?
http://www.zahal.org/FAB/mce.htm
Mfg. by FAB Manufacturing&Import of Industrial Equipment LTD
43 Yakov Olamy St.Moshav Mishmar Hashiva 50297 Israel
If so what is the part number of this product?
Post the real facts please Mr.Grant.
I knew good things would come of this thread. :D
(Someone guide him to Lightfighter, please. The responses should be worth it.)
-B
Well I am a fast learner;) (insert comma)
And (no need for capitalization) from reading all the posts and their threads in this forum I have quickly gained a vast knowledge of the rifle know as the AR over the past two happy
Months[/HTML](capitalization again).
*note, have you really perused all the threads in this forum resulting in a vast knowledge of the rifle know as the AR or did you just stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?
[HTML]I even feel I have become even a (really, do we need any more evens in this sentence?) bit of
and (how bout an expert) expert of the AR (how about a period right here?) I can
even (?) now quickly remove my bolt carrier group and replace in blindfolded.:)
*note, in reference to the last statement; wow, what an accomplishment!
Also(,) after watching some of the great action movies like the new Dark Night and the Shooter
and (delete and, replace with along with) some of great older ones like Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan I
also (delete also) now consider myself a real combat ready game player.:o
Oh (,) about the reload question (,) do you mean reloading spent
Ammo (caps lock is not our friend) (,)or just reloading my AR
and (delete and, replace with the word with)H&K
Mags (CAPS NOT NEEDED)?
I know that you were really trying to tell all the guys at M4carbine.net how much you appreciate thier informative responses to your post, even though they do not agree with your opinions. You should be thankful for the no-b.s. responses on equipment performance that these guys have tried to give you and be the better person by not mouthing off and just listen.
You have used this exact item?
http://www.zahal.org/FAB/mce.htm
Mfg. by FAB Manufacturing&Import of Industrial Equipment LTD
43 Yakov Olamy St.Moshav Mishmar Hashiva 50297 Israel
If so what is the part number of this product?
Post the real facts please Mr.Grant.
I most likely have as I recall one of them having the strap underneath. This is not a new concept by the way. ;)
As I said, this is a poor idea for numerous reasons. I would suggest that you take some carbine courses with it so you can see what the issues are (as you apparently do not understand).
C4
I most likely have as I recall one of them having the strap underneath. This is not a new concept by the way. ;)
As I said, this is a poor idea for numerous reasons. I would suggest that you take some carbine courses with it so you can see what the issues are (as you apparently do not understand).
C4
Grant - you're the best. Your patience is inspiring....
Grant - you're the best. Your patience is inspiring....
LOL, thanks. The old me would have blasted him for ten pages, but the new me is much more patient and controlled. :D
C4
The old me would have blasted him for ten pages, but the new me is much more patient and controlled. :D
Same here. Maybe this site should be called CarbeanZen.com/!
Same here. Maybe this site should be called CarbeanZen.com/!
I don't know about you, what has helped me with new or inexperienced shooters is that I finally realized that we all start somewhere and none of us knew everything from day one. I once too thought that RRA/BM/DPMS AR's were the best and nylon mag couplers were the answer. ;)
C4
Everyone does indeed start somewhere. But here, the experienced shooters outnumber the newer guys. So you don't have new guys dog piling on an experienced guy and telling them that he is a gear snob and all you get with a colt is the logo, Oly is just as good, etc.
The balance of experienced shooters keeps the site from spiraling into ARF mayhem.
Everyone does indeed start somewhere. But here, the experienced shooters outnumber the newer guys. So you don't have new guys dog piling on an experienced guy and telling them that he is a gear snob and all you get with a colt is the logo, Oly is just as good, etc.
The balance of experienced shooters keeps the site from spiraling into ARF mayhem.
I agree 100%. Guys that take gear and training seriously greatly out way shooters that do not.
C4
Someone guide him to Lightfighter, please.
Except LF.net doesn't tolerate his type of BS behavior. He'd be gone after the first post.
I would suggest what we have here is a mouthy teen who thinks he has all the answers. Typical of his generation. Those who understand and respect authority and experience and who are also his age are running patrols in Iraq and A'stan.
Ya'll can have all the patience you want with him, I just see a jackass punk.
rifleshooter
08-21-08, 10:20
I most likely have as I recall one of them having the strap underneath. This is not a new concept by the way. ;)
As I said, this is a poor idea for numerous reasons. I would suggest that you take some carbine courses with it so you can see what the issues are (as you apparently do not understand).
C4
Now that you recall one having a strap underneath maybe you could answer my questions.
Having all your Net. friend/customers patting you on the back won't change the facts. IMHO You have never ever touched or even seen this product. You don't sell it so giving it the thumbs down like you have other products you also have never owned or seen is the simple way to go.:rolleyes:
Here is my QUESTIONS once again: Please read with care Mr.Grant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleshooter View Post
You have used this exact item?
http://www.zahal.org/FAB/mce.htm
Mfg. by FAB Manufacturing&Import of Industrial Equipment LTD
43 Yakov Olamy St.Moshav Mishmar Hashiva 50297 Israel
If so what is the part number of this product?
Post the real facts please Mr.Grant.
Now give the answers.;)
rifleshooter
08-21-08, 10:22
I know that you were really trying to tell all the guys at M4carbine.net how much you appreciate thier informative responses to your post, even though they do not agree with your opinions. You should be thankful for the no-b.s. responses on equipment performance that these guys have tried to give you and be the better person by not mouthing off and just listen.
I don't hear anything please speak louder thanks.:)
Now that you recall one having a strap underneath maybe you could answer my questions.
Having all your Net. friend/customers patting you on the back won't change the facts. IMHO You have never ever touched or even seen this product. You don't sell it so giving it the thumbs down like you have other products you also have never owned or seen is the simple way to go.:rolleyes:
Here is my QUESTIONS once again: Please read with care Mr.Grant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleshooter View Post
You have used this exact item?
http://www.zahal.org/FAB/mce.htm
Mfg. by FAB Manufacturing&Import of Industrial Equipment LTD
43 Yakov Olamy St.Moshav Mishmar Hashiva 50297 Israel
If so what is the part number of this product?
Post the real facts please Mr.Grant.
Now give the answers.;)
Right back atcha
Rifleshooter, if you were a fast learner you would have learned a lesson from this thread.
Please advise what practical experience (i.e. Mil, LE, or Practical like Rob_S has) you can list in your 2 months to get this knowledge? Something real that involves doing, not reading threads and posts on the errornet?
Please advise how many rounds you have fired in established training?
Please advise what training you do?
Advise how you got to be such a Tactical Superstar in the space of 2 whole months? Will you continue this training once you have to go back to school?
Inquring minds want to know....
I find the "Ignore List" feature of vBulletin to be quite useful: https://www.m4carbine.net/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_troublesome_users
Bliss.
Now that you recall one having a strap underneath maybe you could answer my questions.
I have answered your questions.
Having all your Net. friend/customers patting you on the back won't change the facts. IMHO You have never ever touched or even seen this product. You don't sell it so giving it the thumbs down like you have other products you also have never owned or seen is the simple way to go.:rolleyes:
As I said, I have used just about every combo like this on the planet. I used to think it was a good idea, then I ran them through a carbine course and realized otherwise.
I do not sell the product because it is stupid. Could I sell it? Sure could. Understand the difference between NOT being able to sell a product and CHOOSING not to sell a product. ;)
From the pic in your safe, you own several of these products. So you are already committed (married) to them. If even GOD himself came down and told you they were stupid, you would argue with him. If you like them, then great. I would just suggest to you that you run them through a carbine class before trying to tell everyone else that they are a good idea.
Lastly, I would suggest that you be careful about calling me a liar on this forum and or telling me what products I have or have not used.
C4
Enough stupidity for one day.
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