View Full Version : Reloading vs. Factory ammo
Has anyone come up with figures for reloading .223 vs. buying Wolf factory ammo?? Any savings?
2 cents/primer.
5 cents/powder charge.
5 cents/case (ammortized over several reloadings).
8-20 cents/bullet (depending on type).
$150-200 for starter reloading kit and basic accoutrements
$ 550-750 for Dillon 550/650, including basic accoutrements, add another $200 for electric case trimmer system
I'm loading .223 for between $0.15 and $0.20 per round on fully depreciated equipment.
This is without paying for brass....
Don't start reloading unless you think you will LIKE doing it. That'll be more important than saving 5 cents a round on ammo.
I'm loading .223 for between $0.15 and $0.20 per round on fully depreciated equipment.
This is without paying for brass....
Don't start reloading unless you think you will LIKE doing it. That'll be more important than saving 5 cents a round on ammo.
Big +1 on this. Reloading has become its own hobby for me. There is nothing like the convenience of being able to go into my garage and load up a thousand rounds of ammo. I have most of the guns I want for now. My focus is now on purchasing all the reloading components that I possibly can before prices go up any further. If you buy powder by the 8lb jug, primers by the case (5k), and about 3-4k bullets at a time then the savings really start to add up.
Reloading is FAR cheaper than purchasing ammo. Everyone on this board has more time than money.
It costs me $85-90 to reload 1K rounds of .45 ACP. How much is factory ammo? EXACTLY...
I do a great deal of training...so the cost savings is great.
Mace
I am seeing Wolf ammo for about .24-.25cents a round. Not a whole lot of savings is to had by reloading. So, I guess as stated by demigod. It comes down to the joy of reloading.Which holds a lot of merit.
It costs me $125-130 for 1K of brass encased ammo reloaded by me. Compare that to $350-400 for factory...I see a great deal of savings.
Additionally, your talking about just 1K....I am talking about 5-10K....Wolf? No thanks...
Mace
Don't forget to consider that you're making superior quality ammunition and can tailor loads exactly to your firearm.
Also 10 cents per round in savings doesn't seem like a lot, but depending on how much you shoot it can really add up. What I was told when I got into reloading was that in the end you don't necessarily save any money, but you do shoot 2-3 times as much for the same money. That has proven to be true in my case. If I had unlimited funds I'd buy premium factory ammo by the pallet, but I don't, so I load my own.
Don't forget to consider that you're making superior quality ammunition and can tailor loads exactly to your firearm.
Very true.
Also 10 cents per round in savings doesn't seem like a lot, but depending on how much you shoot it can really add up.
$2/box adds up very fast.
I totally agree with everyone here.I have been a reloader for 30 yrs. I was just comparing Wolf ammo because it was the cheapest cost in factory ammo to the cost of reloading to get a ball park feel for what would be best for my needs. I realize when you start talking real brass loaded factory ammo and compare it to reloading costs it's no comparison. The factory brass ammo is considerably more expensive.No question reloading is the way to go for cost savings.
On the other hand, if you factor in the cost to buy once fired brass.... your price on new ammo drops by 10 cents per round in most cases. In other words, factor out the cost of once fired brass from your new ammo purchase price to get the REAL cost to you! No matter what you do, your ahead of someone who doesn't reload.
On the other hand, if you factor in the cost to buy once fired brass.... your price on new ammo drops by 10 cents per round in most cases. In other words, factor out the cost of once fired brass from your new ammo purchase price to get the REAL cost to you! No matter what you do, your ahead of someone who doesn't reload.
I get brass for FREE at my local range...:D
Mace
I get brass for FREE at my local range...:D
Mace
That's awesome. I personally would NEVER pay for brass. I pick it up at my shooting spot. But the point is, market value for brass is about $0.10 per... so it is wise to factor that out of the price that you pay for new ammo to get a better actual cost.
That local range is nuts for not selling it for scrap though! One of the LE ranges here got $1.90 per pound for a large quantity of their brass not too long ago.
I get my brass from my dept's SWAT range. They have they own range and ammo budget and could really care less about brass and throw it all in the dumpster. Since I start coming they keep the brass buckets out longer but its outside and the buckets get water in them and then i get buckets of dirty water filled cases. :(
On the upside its all LC brass, but wolf does get in occasionally from patrol officers and the rust stains the brass cases.
MarshallDodge
08-20-08, 16:35
I have never shot Wolf ammo but I'll bet money that my reloads will perform better. Even if it cost me the same or more to reload I would still reload.
Oh, and not to get political but I am a little mad at Russia right now. :rolleyes:
I get my brass from my dept's SWAT range. They have they own range and ammo budget and could really care less about brass and throw it all in the dumpster. Since I start coming they keep the brass buckets out longer but its outside and the buckets get water in them and then i get buckets of dirty water filled cases. :(
On the upside its all LC brass, but wolf does get in occasionally from patrol officers and the rust stains the brass cases.
You should cash in on that brass if those fools are trashing it!
2 five gallon buckets of scrap brass here will get me over $150!
OK, Lets do the math: You guys/gals please help me out.
Factory brass 223 ammo=.__ cents a round(less 10 cents a round for brass)
Wolf steel case factory ammo= .25 cents a round
Reloads(including all costs for equipment, components, etc)= .__ cents a round
Is this a fair comparison??
Man I wish I could get free brass! I need 223 badly. Anyone want to box some up for me :) I'll pay shipping and your time for a Flat Rate box of once-fired brass. Hell, I'd even pay the scrap price per pound for it instead if you want.
MarshallDodge
08-21-08, 13:25
OK, Lets do the math: You guys/gals please help me out.
Factory brass 223 ammo=.__ cents a round(less 10 cents a round for brass)
Wolf steel case factory ammo= .25 cents a round
Reloads(including all costs for equipment, components, etc)= .__ cents a round
Is this a fair comparison??
I bought all of my reloading equipment years ago so it has paid for itself many times over. You can get a single stage setup with dies and everything else for under $200, a progressive setup will probably cost you about $500 with all the accessories and dies.
I was getting 223 brass for $20 per thousand and stashed quite a bit,enough to fill a couple 5-gallon buckets, so I won't be needing any for a while but today I see processed brass on Gunbroker for about 10 cents a case.
Next is bullets. 55 grain bullets purchased by the thousand are around 7 cents each.
Powder purchased by the pound is about 7 cents a round.
Primers by the thousand are about 2 cents per round.
First loading would be 10+7+7+2 = 26 cents per round, 5.20 per 20, 260.00 per thousand.
Second loading 7+7+2 = 16 cents per round, 3.20 per 20, 160.00 per thousand.
Your mileage may vary but that should give you a good idea on what you are saving.
Reloads(including all costs for equipment, components, etc)= .__ cents a round
Your first two calculations are a good comparison. For reloading though, let's assume you can save $0.10 per round.
It'd take you 8,000 rounds to pay for $800 worth of a dillon 550 and reloading gear. If you plan on doing some shooting over the next 5-10 years. You'll definitely pay for the equipment.
You can start off a lot cheaper, but you'll find that you're less efficient. There's a number of variables. You don't want to be disassembling your powder measure to go back and forth between rifle and pistol all the time for example.
Man I wish I could get free brass! I need 223 badly. Anyone want to box some up for me :) I'll pay shipping and your time for a Flat Rate box of once-fired brass. Hell, I'd even pay the scrap price per pound for it instead if you want.
The days of free brass are fading fast. Brass is like cash. No one in his right mind can say he has more than he needs. I can remember leaving Radway RORG brass at the range a year or two ago because someone had left it all over the place and there was so much of it, it was a pain in the ass to pick it all up. I wouldn't be so lazy today though! ;)
If I needed brass, I'd buy some Priv M193, shoot it, and have some good brass that I know I could get 3 loadings out of without having to trim the cases.
Magic Sauce
08-21-08, 19:39
I'm thinking about reloading .45...
Are cast lead bullets the cheapest/best way to go?
I'm just gathering information at this point.
Thanks
Lead bullets can be much cheaper, especially if you find a local source. They are also dirtier and smokier and some newer indoor ranges won't let you shoot lead, so you might want to check with where you shoot first. I shoot 200gr. SWC and have thousands through my 1911 with no bullet-related failures.
A lot of the lead bullet casters have gone out of business in the past 18 months or so as the price of lead went up extremely fast. Here are a few from my bookmarks:
http://www.cheycast.com/catalog.htm (Good to go)
http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html (Great bullets, can be a long wait)
http://www.precisionbullets.com/products.html (Moly coated, I've not used them)
I've recently found a small mom and pop shop that I've been ordering from and they have been very good to me and a few of my friends.
My favorite light target load in a Commander length 1911 is 4.0gr of Clays under a 200gr SWC at 1.250 OAL in mixed brass with a Winchester large pistol primer.
The days of free brass are fading fast. Brass is like cash. No one in his right mind can say he has more than he needs. I can remember leaving Radway RORG brass at the range a year or two ago because someone had left it all over the place and there was so much of it, it was a pain in the ass to pick it all up. I wouldn't be so lazy today though! ;)
If I needed brass, I'd buy some Priv M193, shoot it, and have some good brass that I know I could get 3 loadings out of without having to trim the cases.
Yeah I pick up every piece I can find. I was just hoping someone was independantly wealthy. I know a dentist that is that doesn't want his brass. I happily pick up what I can when I can. I trim everything every time as I don't separate brass and ot all gets piled together so I'll probably just buy some as I can still load for $.15 a round buying brass. It just takes time to trim and swage the brass but the Dillon Super Swage makes it less painful.
MarshallDodge
08-21-08, 21:37
In the early 90's I paid 2 cents a piece for 200gr. LSWC's and would reload a box of 50 for $2 and a thousand was only $40 :(
For indoor use I try to shoot plated bullets and like the Ranier 200 JHP's, very accurate and awesome on bowling pins.
I recently picked up a box of 200 grain LRNFP (lead round nose flat point) and so far I really like them. They were $29 per 500 or about 6 cents a piece. It makes a nice load over 3.8gr. Clays and a Win primer.
Cost: 6 cents for bullet, 1 cent for powder, 2 cents for primer = 8 cents per round or $4.00 for a box of 50.
My 10 year old shoots my Norinco 1911 with 3.8 clays under a 185 grain bullet and he loves it. You can almost feel the slide moving slower.
Your gun will get a lot dirtier with lead but heck, you are shooting 45ACP for less than 9mm!
I've never shot lead bullets ever. I'd rather have a few less rounds of ammo than deal with the barrel leading, and general filth of lead bullets.
That's just me preference. More power to people that don't mind shooting lead.
I've never shot lead bullets ever. I'd rather have a few less rounds of ammo than deal with the barrel leading, and general filth of lead bullets.
That's just me preference. More power to people that don't mind shooting lead.
I guess I just figure that I'm cleaning my gun and washing my hands after I shoot anyway. My usual range has a great ventilation system so the smoke isn't an issue. I load and keep some good FMJ and HP stuff for occasional bowling pins or if I end up going somewhere that doesn't let me shoot lead. I'm just getting such a good price on hard cast bullets right now as compared to FMJ or plated that I just can't argue.
I personally like precision's moly coated lead bullets. They're not as cheap as they used to be but they are cheaper than fmj and worked just as good for me. No problems with exposed lead or leading barrels. But now they have a three month backorder. :(
There was another big moly coated bullet operation that closed up shop so Precision is probably just completely overwhelmed. I ordered one of their 100 round sample packs once and liked them well enough, but it wasn't worth the cost difference to me to make a large order.
MarshallDodge
08-23-08, 13:49
I've never shot lead bullets ever. I'd rather have a few less rounds of ammo than deal with the barrel leading, and general filth of lead bullets.
That's just me preference. More power to people that don't mind shooting lead.
I have not had a barrel leading issue with 45 but I have seen it with 9mm.
The "filth" is not too bad either. A lot of what I see is that the bullet lube tends to leave a film on stuff. It all comes off easily with some M-pro 7.
I guess I just figure that I'm cleaning my gun and washing my hands after I shoot anyway. My usual range has a great ventilation system so the smoke isn't an issue.
When is the last time you had your lead level checked?
When is the last time you had your lead level checked?
I've only been shooting for little over 3 years and reloading for less than that so I've not had it done. I do plan on having it checked during my next annual physical later in the year. If it's elevated then I may very well be changing some of the things I do. My shooting/reloading mentor has been loading lead for many years and still has safe lead levels.
Dedpoet -- I don't doubt that it can be done as long as the shooter/reloader is fanatical about washing up after both the shooting & the reloading.
I was also taught years ago that drinking milk helps keep your lead level low because the calcium "takes up the space" in the blood and bones that lead would normally fill. I don't know if it's true, but I have a class of skim milk once a day and even with my pretty high levels of shooting (60k+ rounds per year mostly indoors) my lead level hovers right around 10.
For those shooting lead, how do you deal with leading of the barrel? What are your cleaning methods?
it's not much of an issue for me. i keep a 45 cal boresnake handy and drag it through my pistol every few hundred rounds for good measure though.
marshall's numbers are making me all misty for the days hi-techammo had m193 pulldown for $75/3000. at that time, a thousand rounds of 223 cost me $85 including brass. fortunately, i have several thousand left that i stocked up on at those prices. however, when i have to buy new, it will cost me over twice that.
I have about 7000 lead rounds through the stainless barrel in my 1911 and haven't had an issue with leading. After several hundred rounds I can start to see a very slight film near the barrel throat but nothing really collecting in the rifling. I clean with just patches and MPro-7 most times, and a brass brush once in a while.
.45 may not have the issue because of the lower velocities. I have read other places that a great way to clean a leaded barrel is with a piece of "Chore Boy" copper cloth that you can get at grocery stores. I've not had to do this personally as I'm only shooting lead in .45. I don't shoot enough 9mm to reload for it and even if I did I'd probably shoot FMJ.
i pay about 15 cents a round for reloaded ammo.
hornady 55 grain bullets
ramshot TAC powder
CCI 400 small rifle primers.
i have a bucket of used brass i was given for free. when that runs out i guess i'll have to get some more. :o'
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp nice tool here. not sure if anyone else posted it already. :)
MarshallDodge
08-23-08, 22:43
For those shooting lead, how do you deal with leading of the barrel? What are your cleaning methods?
I have not seen any real issues. My Dan Wesson CBOB will stop going into battery at about 250 rounds but the chamber is really tight (match). It doesn't even bother my Kimber Target. I take them home, spray on some Mpro, let it soak for a while, then run some tight patches through the barrel.
Hard cast lead bullets are better but you pay a premium for it.
For me the biggest issue is availability of ammo, not just cost. Being able to load up X amount of rounds whenever I feel like it, as opposed to having to order a case or two in order to get a (relatively) half decent price, is an advantage.
I also think the cost savings scale up as you start getting into loads using match bullets, etc. Not in a million years could I afford to regularly shoot factory ammo with 75gr Hornady OTM's; reloading, it's not as much of a problem.
toddackerman
08-26-08, 13:12
On the other hand, if you factor in the cost to buy once fired brass.... your price on new ammo drops by 10 cents per round in most cases. In other words, factor out the cost of once fired brass from your new ammo purchase price to get the REAL cost to you! No matter what you do, your ahead of someone who doesn't reload.
Clearly the case!
Go to Scharch.com, and buy 1,000 rounds of processed brass for $79.00 and load it 4 times. Amortized, this is $.02 cents per round loaded 4 times and then toss it. For even a greater savings and something to do when the snow flies...re-process it and shoot it at least another 2 times...probably another 4 times.
BTW...anyone who loves their rifles would never feed them Wolf ammo!!!
Amortized, this is $.02 cents per round loaded 4 times and then toss it.
Don't toss it. It's worth $1.50 per pound at the scrap metal joint here.
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