View Full Version : Running a dry AR 1000 rds plus torture.
TheNegativeOne
03-15-16, 09:01
Very interesting video showing an AR running totally dry while subjecting it to water, mud, ice, sand and steel case ammo.
https://youtu.be/Bvkj0uFyyt0
Eurodriver
03-15-16, 09:31
The subtitles helped immensely. Looks like they had a good time, but their sand test was useless. They must have just bought a 50lb bag of playground sand from Home Depot. That is nothing like OIF moon dust.
TheNegativeOne
03-16-16, 10:48
The subtitles helped immensely. Looks like they had a good time, but their sand test was useless. They must have just bought a 50lb bag of playground sand from Home Depot. That is nothing like OIF moon dust.
I agree, the sand should be blowing into the action while firing. Still no lube, 1000rds steel case. Its a solid gun.
I agree, the sand should be blowing into the action while firing. Still no lube, 1000rds steel case. Its a solid gun.
There is an inrange tv video where they do that.
Its on full 30, sorry i can't seem to link for some reason
Bodhisattva05X
03-16-16, 12:56
DE swimming pool filter powder seems to be the closest test media
DE swimming pool filter powder seems to be the closest test media
Well, today I learned that DE filter powder is made up of the fossilized remains of single celled organisms called Diatoms.
I agree, the sand should be blowing into the action while firing. Still no lube, 1000rds steel case. Its a solid gun.
Windham? Solid?
Bodhisattva05X
03-16-16, 14:15
Well, today I learned that DE filter powder is made up of the fossilized remains of single celled organisms called Diatoms.
Yea the DE stands for Diatomaceous Earth. In high school worked at a swimming pool service company. That's what made me think of it. I will say, the first time you get DE powder in your mouth or swallow it you won't get the shits....
TheNegativeOne
03-16-16, 14:15
Apparently. Watch the vid.
Inkslinger
03-16-16, 14:23
Well, today I learned that DE filter powder is made up of the fossilized remains of single celled organisms called Diatoms.
To mess with you even more, it's also is/was in toothpaste. That's the crunchy bits.
TheNegativeOne
03-16-16, 14:27
There is an inrange tv video where they do that.
Its on full 30, sorry i can't seem to link for some reason
I saw one where the guy got down prone and they blew the sand in the action with a fan while firing. The AR lasted about the same round count as the AK.
I saw one where the guy got down prone and they blew the sand in the action with a fan while firing. The AR lasted about the same round count as the AK.
They didn't do an ak, they compared an ar, m1a, and mas 49/56. The ar passed the test, and the other guns failed
https://www.full30.com/video/6618755f336970e55e6c50c1fe894ff8
I'm with Euro on this to an extent... I say blow all 7 of the sands from OIF into the action. Especially the pink stuff.
They didn't do an ak, they compared an ar, m1a, and mas 49/56. The ar passed the test, and the other guns failed
https://www.full30.com/video/6618755f336970e55e6c50c1fe894ff8
They did test an AK in mud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU
I thought I remember seeing them test an AK in sand, but it may have been someone else, since I cannot find it in their channel.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o7sc84020gk/U-O_5izAePI/AAAAAAAAWUY/v5e7iVFhi6w/s1600/sorry+if+I'm+late+popcorn+line+was+long.jpg
To me this test shows that the AR design is a pretty good one.
If even Windham can put together an AR that runs pretty well even without lubricant, and through mud, ice, sand and water, then the fundamental design is a'ight.
Bodhisattva05X
03-16-16, 22:17
If I remember correctly there is this newer model Windham that has some coating on it and they claim that the rifle does not require lube.
Mike Pannone did a similar non lube test several years back. The whole Iraqi/Afghan dust in my eyes stuff gets old.
Bayoublaster
03-17-16, 11:39
If I remember correctly there is this newer model Windham that has some coating on it and they claim that the rifle does not require lube.
You may be thinking of Anderson and their RF85 coating. I'm incredibly skeptical of anything claiming no oil required.
I lubed my rifle lightly with MPRO7 LPX and fired 1500 rounds of Wolf suppressed. This is how it looked when I was done. Ran fine.
http://i64.tinypic.com/289fm37.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2zq5vnd.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/dlgb6b.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/6h7pj8.jpg
Bodhisattva05X
03-17-16, 13:18
You may be thinking of Anderson and their RF85 coating. I'm incredibly skeptical of anything claiming no oil required.
Ehhh knew it was someone offering something like that. The LGS that I used to work at had one and the owners wife was going on and on about it to a customer. She didn't like it when I said I wouldn't trust it and still run it wet.
Berserkr556
03-17-16, 19:47
Hell I have a S&W M&P Sport I picked up cheap that passed this test easily. I swam through the swamp with it, low crawled through black swamp muck and it still fired without a problem. I'm not in the desert so I don't worry about sand. The swamp muck here is what will kill your rifle and you if you don't take care.
BuzzinSATX
03-17-16, 21:03
Interesting video. Shows that while companies like Windam may not be on par with Novesky, DD, BCM, et al, they are still decent rifles for 95% of American households, and probably more durable than most folks give them credit for...
Bayoublaster
03-18-16, 09:25
Ehhh knew it was someone offering something like that. The LGS that I used to work at had one and the owners wife was going on and on about it to a customer. She didn't like it when I said I wouldn't trust it and still run it wet.
New coatings and materials are great but aren't a replacement for simple maintenance. Even if it's true and no lube is required, just maybe somehow it might run better oiled anyway.
Doc Safari
03-18-16, 09:29
New coatings and materials are great but aren't a replacement for simple maintenance. Even if it's true and no lube is required, just maybe somehow it might run better oiled anyway.
Unless you live in the desert like I do. Out here one always has to strike a happy medium between a dry gun that won't run dry versus a lubed gun that attracts sand into the lubricant. A sudden dust storm can turn a generously lubed weapon into a sand-encrusted mess.
So the prospect of running a gun dry or nearly dry and having it still function properly is always a good thing in my book.
TheNegativeOne
03-18-16, 10:27
Unless you live in the desert like I do. Out here one always has to strike a happy medium between a dry gun that won't run dry versus a lubed gun that attracts sand into the lubricant. A sudden dust storm can turn a generously lubed weapon into a sand-encrusted mess.
So the prospect of running a gun dry or nearly dry and having it still function properly is always a good thing in my book.
Frog lube works really well for your environment.
Bayoublaster
03-18-16, 15:27
Unless you live in the desert like I do. Out here one always has to strike a happy medium between a dry gun that won't run dry versus a lubed gun that attracts sand into the lubricant. A sudden dust storm can turn a generously lubed weapon into a sand-encrusted mess.
So the prospect of running a gun dry or nearly dry and having it still function properly is always a good thing in my book.
That is true. I live in a hot, humid climate so I haven't experienced a dust storm. I'm all for new materials, etc. but am just skeptical of such bold claims as Anderson made. Especially after having handled Anderson rifles.
Unfortunately that information is incorrect.
Unless you live in the desert like I do. Out here one always has to strike a happy medium between a dry gun that won't run dry versus a lubed gun that attracts sand into the lubricant. A sudden dust storm can turn a generously lubed weapon into a sand-encrusted mess.
So the prospect of running a gun dry or nearly dry and having it still function properly is always a good thing in my book.
Eurodriver
03-18-16, 19:04
Unfortunately that information is incorrect.
+1
Heavy lubrication shown to improve M16, M4 effectiveness
By Matthew Cox - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jul 16, 2007 17:34:05 EDT
Army weapons officials might have found a way to improve the M16 family’s performance in the desert.
“Dust chamber” tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., last year show that M16 rifles and M4 carbines perform dramatically better when the weapon’s bolt assembly is heavily lubricated.
During each phase of the two-part “system assessment” at Army Test and Evaluation Command, testers fired 60,000 rounds through 10 weapon samples of each model.
Treated with light lubrication, new M16A4s and M4s, performed poorly in the extreme dust and sand conditions of the test, according to a January report from ATEC.
But when testers applied a heavy coat of lubrication to the weapons, the test results showed a “significant improvement.”
Out of the 60,000 rounds fired in each phase, the M4 stoppage-rate dropped from 9,836 with light lubrication to 678 with heavy lubrication.
The M16A4 stoppage-rate dropped from 2,124 with light lubrication to 507 with heavy lubrication, results show.
For years, Army weapons officials have preached to soldiers to virtues of applying a light coat of lubrication during weapons maintenance.
But the test results reinforce a recent change in weapons maintenance guidance Army units are practicing in Iraq and Afghanistan, said Col. Carl Lipsit, project manager for Soldier Weapons.
At the request of Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., the Army will conduct a similar dust-chamber test in August, pitting the M4 against the Heckler and Koch 416, the H&K XM8 and FNH USA’s Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle.
All of the participating weapons will be treated with a heavy coat of lubrication during the test, Lipsit said.
Link is dead: http://content-static.militarytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_carbine_lubrication_070716/
Nightstalker865
03-18-16, 22:05
Unfortunately that information is incorrect.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There is really only one consistency with these torture tests, which is that they are never consistent, especially when comparisons are made between different weapon systems.
Unless you live in the desert like I do. Out here one always has to strike a happy medium between a dry gun that won't run dry versus a lubed gun that attracts sand into the lubricant. A sudden dust storm can turn a generously lubed weapon into a sand-encrusted mess.
So the prospect of running a gun dry or nearly dry and having it still function properly is always a good thing in my book.
Will this kind of B.S. misinformation ever die?
I think a lot of problems with the M4/AR platform are geometry, and mass, and velocity (spring force).
Let me explain...
I have had issues with mil-spec springs stripping a round from the magazine (PMAG, 30 rounds verified), in multiple AR's. I also have had an issue way back when, when I was using Rem Oil to lube a Colt A3 Elite with it fully chambering a round (Yes, I know, I know...) and the FA fixed that "issue".
So what could fix these things?
Better geometry. However, "Better" is subjective. You need space. What I am talking about, is giving the BCG and buffer a longer "run" at the round in the mag, and elongating the cam-pin path (LMT did this) to create less friction at that point, as well. LMT's solution is minimal, and changing the geometry is a non-starter.
This leaves us with mass...we can only add so much before the weapon fails to function, but we can go up from a Carbine buffer to an H or H2, and if we go with the Vltor A5, I have found that you can typically run 1oz heavier on the buffer and get the same level of function at the bottom of the pressure performance envelope.
Also velocity. You can up the spring. I found that a Sprinco blue on my carbine RE and a Sprinco green on my A5 prevented FTRB and failure to strip the top round issues completely.
The switch to the A5, bump in buffer weight and spring tension, has made my rifle a LOT! more reliable.
I also went with a QPQ'ed BCG, and have found that the hard, slick surfaces do have less friction, ever so slightly, than even polished phosphate/8620 carriers. This jives with the CoF charts I have seen for QPQ on anodized aluminum vs. Steel on anodized aluminum. Further, cam-pin deformation/"grooving" is minimized. In short, this was a minor advancement in function when dirty, as well.
So...how does it do dirty? Well, this is before I went with a Sprinco Green spring, and was using the Vltor A5 spring as from Vltor. I fired over 1500 rounds of Wolf suppressed, having initially lubed with MPRO7 LPX, very lightly, and subsequently adding zero lube or performing any cleaning. Near the end of the 1500 rounds, I removed the suppressor, and fired a few mags of Wolf unsuppressed. It functioned fine, and locked back on empty. I don't see ANYTHING wet about these parts after 1500 rounds, so I am forced to conclude that it cycles dirty as hell and dry as the Sahara just fine. I do not think it would, if I were using a carbine RE, milspec spring, and H buffer or Carbine buffer.
Anyway, this is just my .02 on improving M4 reliability, and I give full credit to the concepts thereof to Mike Pannone, and his article about similar/same.
http://i64.tinypic.com/289fm37.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2zq5vnd.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/dlgb6b.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/6h7pj8.jpg
Ws6 , would be interesting to throw that upper on a regular lower afterwards
Ws6 , would be interesting to throw that upper on a regular lower afterwards
Would have done so if I'd thought about it!
Longtime friend of mine told me when he was in the Marine Corps, the Sgt would come around with a windex type squirt bottle of CLP and spray the shit outta the BCG while they were shooting. This was many years ago, and I don't remember if he told me it was when they were in Iraq or when he was an instructor at Division Schools.
This was USMC ca. 1991-94 probably. He's the one who infected me with the AR bug, so I guess I'm fortunate to not ever have been exposed to the "dry AR" stuff.
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Boba Fett v2
03-19-16, 11:32
Longtime friend of mine told me when he was in the Marine Corps, the Sgt would come around with a windex type squirt bottle of CLP and spray the shit outta the BCG while they were shooting. This was many years ago, and I don't remember if he told me it was when they were in Iraq or when he was an instructor at Division Schools.
This was USMC ca. 1991-94 probably. He's the one who infected me with the AR bug, so I guess I'm fortunate to not ever have been exposed to the "dry AR" stuff.
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It was a fairly common practice for Army units to have a squirt bottle full of CLP on hand on range day, and guys were lubing the shit out of their BCGs before being let on the firing line. This applied to crew-served weapons as well. The light coat of CLP that was being preached was meant for routine and after operations maintenance.
It was a fairly common practice for Army units to have a squirt bottle full of CLP on hand on range day, and guys were lubing the shit out of their BCGs before being let on the firing line. This applied to crew-served weapons as well. The light coat of CLP that was being preached was meant for routine and after operations maintenance.
Yeah that makes sense then. It was several years ago, and I don't remember the specifics (lots of stories once the Budweiser started flowing), just that when shooting more was better than less.
One thing I did change...he's fanatical about cleaning them. I got over that real quick. If they're going in the safe for an extended period I'll clean them, but only because it makes me feel guilty if I don't. But as far as scraping a bolt with a stripper clip after every range trip...fuuuuuuuck that.
I'd have to remind him, we weren't both Marines. :)
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I've never understood why people do this kind of thing. I can see the military doing it for evaluation purposes but, why subject your weapon to such abuse?
Kind of like running your auto low on oil.
And, just because it might run with shit all in it and no lube this time, doesn't necessarily mean it will the next.
TheNegativeOne
03-20-16, 19:04
I've never understood why people do this kind of thing. I can see the military doing it for evaluation purposes but, why subject your weapon to such abuse?
Kind of like running your auto low on oil.
And, just because it might run with shit all in it and no lube this time, doesn't necessarily mean it will the next.
Its to show what the AR can do under harsh conditions. If it can run that good like that, then it will definatley run cleaned and lubed. Its just to show how reliable the system really is.
I've never understood why people do this kind of thing. I can see the military doing it for evaluation purposes but, why subject your weapon to such abuse?
Kind of like running your auto low on oil.
And, just because it might run with shit all in it and no lube this time, doesn't necessarily mean it will the next.
Who was the lucky guy who got to finally clean it and lube it?
:)
Will this kind of B.S. misinformation ever die?
Let me check and get back to you ... wait...incoming...wait.... ok, here's your answer.
NO. NEVER.
:suicide:
Its just to show how reliable the system really is.
A thousand rounds is not a "torture test," even running it dry... A thousand rounds for some here is a weekend day, and nothing more. (Granted, the average commercial-spec gun will probably see a thousand rounds across it's entire functional lifetime.)
There are several tests out there with carbines running 10K+ (and the Flithy 14 passing 43K rounds). That kind of work is a test. Yes, they're running lubed and not bone dry because that's how it's meant to function. It's no different than bragging how well your car runs without oil.
TheNegativeOne
03-20-16, 21:28
Uh huh.
It's no different than bragging how well your car runs without oil.
Well said.
TheNegativeOne
03-20-16, 21:58
A thousand rounds is not a "torture test," even running it dry... A thousand rounds for some here is a weekend day, and nothing more. (Granted, the average commercial-spec gun will probably see a thousand rounds across it's entire functional lifetime.)
There are several tests out there with carbines running 10K+ (and the Flithy 14 passing 43K rounds). That kind of work is a test. Yes, they're running lubed and not bone dry because that's how it's meant to function. It's no different than bragging how well your car runs without oil.
Ok not a torture test. An extremely adverse conditions reliability test. With crappy ammo.
Like Doc Glock pointed out, different circumstances.
Oil attracts dirt and makes gum.
It will also freeze. I spent 35 years in Alaska and saw it first hand. A clean dry gun with some powdered graphite never failed me. But I never shot 1000 rounds at on outing either.
screwedbygoogle
original username modified by google
Its to show what the AR can do under harsh conditions. If it can run that good like that, then it will definatley run cleaned and lubed. Its just to show how reliable the system really is.
I think anyone that has any extended knowledge of the AR-15 already knows this. It's been done how many times now?
There is nothing definite about any weapon functioning perfectly. A clean and lubed weapon can experience a stoppage. It's why you should practice malfunction drills.
It's asking for trouble. Like smoking can take years off of your life.
Oil doesn't attract dirt. It keeps it suspended. If dirt gets in and ar, it's in there. Oil doest have some power that sucks debris into the gun. A dry gun will ussually lock up because the debris can't flow and inhibits the action.
Doc Safari
03-21-16, 09:24
Will this kind of B.S. misinformation ever die?
I don't see how you can call it B.S. I live it. I have had to field strip my weapon and hose it down with degreaser to get the sand out. I'm not saying it would have caused a malfunction, but I don't want an olly/sandy mix causing excess wear either. Hence, I'd love to be able to run the gun dry. Not saying it's possible, but I'd love to be able to do it.
Doc Safari
03-21-16, 09:27
Oil doesn't attract dirt. It keeps it suspended. If dirt gets in and ar, it's in there. Oil doest have some power that sucks debris into the gun. A dry gun will ussually lock up because the debris can't flow and inhibits the action.
All I can say is that I have seen with my own eyes my primary AR with some CLP in it and the CLP is full of sand granules. And yes, I'm talking about seeing actual sand down in the action where it got in around the cracks where the two receiver halves meet. I don't think I've seen much around the ejection port area, but I did see some get into the mag well.
Believe me or don't believe me, but I've seen it.
Again, I didn't shoot it full of sand because I didn't want the excess wear and tear from sand-encrusted oil that might have acted like grinding compound. I'm not addressing malfunctions, but excess wear and tear from a sand-filled oil mix. Every time I've gotten caught in a sandstorm with a well-oiled weapon I've broken it down and cleaned it with degreaser until all the sand was out of it.
Mrgunsngear
03-21-16, 09:48
Oil doesn't attract dirt. It keeps it suspended. If dirt gets in and ar, it's in there. Oil doest have some power that sucks debris into the gun. A dry gun will ussually lock up because the debris can't flow and inhibits the action.
True story
My ranch is in NE New Mexico; not desert but high mesas and open plains. We have serious dust in the Spring and I carry my 6920 with me on horseback. I keep a very light lube of CLP in the weapon, but I also carry it in a leather scabbard. Dust still gets in it but I'm not shooting 1000 rounds. Early on in my Army career, I carried an XM177 in my AH-6 Little Bird, and kept it wrapped in plastic trash bag while in the Horn of Africa. Later when I was flying the 58 Delta, I laid my M4 on top of the Avionics console against the windscreen. No bag and that was a mistake when I was in SW Iraq. Fine, shitty dust over everything. Ended wrapping the M4 up as well in a bag.
Doc Safari
03-21-16, 09:58
I have considered carrying mine in some sort of pack when I'm out on the desert. I keep the ACOG covered with one of those scopecoats so the lenses don't get sandblasted.
Other than that I guess I'll just have to live with the "get sand in it and clean it" regimen.
Part of the problem is that CLP "migrates". If you lube a bolt carrier group generously like Larry Vickers suggests, that might be well and good for functionality, but as the Break Free "vaporizes" or whatever the term is--"penetrates"--maybe?--it creeps into every nook and cranny and out onto the outer receiver surfaces. This gets sand imbedded in it and even if it doesn't affect function I don't like to shoot it with all that crud in it.
I'd love to find another type of lube that doesn't "migrate" but I don't have all kinds of time to turn this into a research project. I've got other stuff to do.
On my 6920 on horseback, just a Matech BUIS and a rail cover forward of that. Couldn't fit it in the scabbard otherwise. One thing that surprises me is the number of people who shoot Wolf in their AR. I have always saved that ammo for the AK. Dirty stuff. What am I missing here? I knows it's cheap, but I always try to shoot the cleanest ammo I can find for my Black Rifles.
I'm no engineer but, it seems to me that wet, oily grit would have less of an abrasive factor on moving parts than dry grit.
You guys in the forth grade caught us.
Oil does not attract dirt like those wonderful little iron attracting magnets you are studying in science class.
Once you are old enough to legally purchase your own firearm and you actually carry it a while you will notice, excess oil and dirt gets together to create gum! This gum can slow down operation of your firearm causing malfunctions and in some cases it can cause complete stoppages.
In the meantime I recommend you oil your little cap guns sparingly. Too much oil WILL neutralize your caps.
I am yet to see an oil kit for AR's. You know the one - copper tubing delivering oil to all the cracks and crevices, an oil pump clamped to the accessory rail and that big Fram filter screwed to the bottom of the handguard.
And the butt pad bumper sticker that says, "If'in it's good nuff fer my cars motor it's good nuff fer my gun"
screwedbygoogle
original username modified by google
Always better to use them they're wet and dirty rather than dry and dirty.
I still think that is true.
I'm talking about ARs, mind you.
;)
DSL will end this discussion. It's our end all be all magical, patented coating
TheNegativeOne
03-21-16, 19:46
Frog lube.
You guys in the forth grade caught us.
Oil does not attract dirt like those wonderful little iron attracting magnets you are studying in science class.
Once you are old enough to legally purchase your own firearm and you actually carry it a while you will notice, excess oil and dirt gets together to create gum! This gum can slow down operation of your firearm causing malfunctions and in some cases it can cause complete stoppages.
In the meantime I recommend you oil your little cap guns sparingly. Too much oil WILL neutralize your caps.
I am yet to see an oil kit for AR's. You know the one - copper tubing delivering oil to all the cracks and crevices, an oil pump clamped to the accessory rail and that big Fram filter screwed to the bottom of the handguard.
And the butt pad bumper sticker that says, "If'in it's good nuff fer my cars motor it's good nuff fer my gun"
screwedbygoogle
original username modified by google
Some of us may be in elementary school but, at least we aren't in kindergarten as your post would suggest you are.
Do yourself a favor. Attempt to post intelligent responses or don't post.
You guys in the forth grade caught us.
Oil does not attract dirt like those wonderful little iron attracting magnets you are studying in science class.
Once you are old enough to legally purchase your own firearm and you actually carry it a while you will notice, excess oil and dirt gets together to create gum! This gum can slow down operation of your firearm causing malfunctions and in some cases it can cause complete stoppages.
In the meantime I recommend you oil your little cap guns sparingly. Too much oil WILL neutralize your caps.
I am yet to see an oil kit for AR's. You know the one - copper tubing delivering oil to all the cracks and crevices, an oil pump clamped to the accessory rail and that big Fram filter screwed to the bottom of the handguard.
And the butt pad bumper sticker that says, "If'in it's good nuff fer my cars motor it's good nuff fer my gun"
screwedbygoogle
original username modified by google
Bodhisattva05X
03-22-16, 01:06
Wow, not gonna get those minutes of my life back
You guys in the forth grade caught us.
Oil does not attract dirt like those wonderful little iron attracting magnets you are studying in science class.
Once you are old enough to legally purchase your own firearm and you actually carry it a while you will notice, excess oil and dirt gets together to create gum! This gum can slow down operation of your firearm causing malfunctions and in some cases it can cause complete stoppages.
In the meantime I recommend you oil your little cap guns sparingly. Too much oil WILL neutralize your caps.
I am yet to see an oil kit for AR's. You know the one - copper tubing delivering oil to all the cracks and crevices, an oil pump clamped to the accessory rail and that big Fram filter screwed to the bottom of the handguard.
And the butt pad bumper sticker that says, "If'in it's good nuff fer my cars motor it's good nuff fer my gun"
screwedbygoogle
original username modified by google
I'm no engineer but, it seems to me that wet, oily grit would have less of an abrasive factor on moving parts than dry grit.
I think what people are trying to say is that dry grit would not stick to the gun as readily as dry grit.
I think what people are trying to say is that dry grit would not stick to the gun as readily as dry grit.
What is dry grit unto grit that not which it is but what is it to the dry grit that it is not unto which that it is?
Nope. People are just saying that wet grit will be easier for the BCG to slog through than will dry grit. Consider what happens when you wet sand paint vs. not using water...
What is dry grit unto grit that not which it is but what is it to the dry grit that it is not unto which that it is?
Nope. People are just saying that wet grit will be easier for the BCG to slog through than will dry grit. Consider what happens when you wet sand paint vs. not using water...
Not sure I follow the first part but, it's funny.
Yeah, if lube is present it's got to be better than no lube no matter what kind of foreign matter gets in the action.
It not only makes the movement of the parts easier, it makes it less abrasive.
'I wanted to see how durable my car engine was, so I ran it with out oil for 1000 miles…'
Running things that are designed to be lubricated, not lubricated seems a silly test to me, about the same as the above statement.
jackblack73
03-22-16, 11:16
'I wanted to see how durable my car engine was, so I ran it with out oil for 1000 miles…'
Running things that are designed to be lubricated, not lubricated seems a silly test to me, about the same as the above statement.
It doesn't seem that silly to me. Ideally, yes, it should be lubricated. But what if one of our soldiers is in an extended fire fight without access to improper supplies, or whatever scenario someone might come up with. Preparing for and designing equipment to handle a worst case scenario seems like a good idea to me.
It doesn't seem that silly to me. Ideally, yes, it should be lubricated. But what if one of our soldiers is in an extended fire fight without access to improper supplies, or whatever scenario someone might come up with. Preparing for and designing equipment to handle a worst case scenario seems like a good idea to me.
A soldier with thousands of rounds at his disposal, but with a dry gun, and nothing that he can use for lube in sight? Doubtful. At a minimum a ounce of oil can be taken from the engine of a vehicle to lube the gun.
I can see this test as entertaining, but totally unrealistic.
DSL will end this discussion. It's our end all be all magical, patented coating
I read on the Internet that DSL contains a large percentage of pixie dust, finely ground unicorn horns and authentic oper8tor blood, sweat and tears.
Is that true?
Why is lubrication always such a hotly debated topic? It doesn't matter if its cars, lawnmowers or guns, guys get rabid arguing over the merits of one kind of lube or another, like the meaning of their life is at stake. It's worse than religion. I just don't get why it's so exciting.
Why is lubrication always such a hotly debated topic? It doesn't matter if its cars, lawnmowers or guns, guys get rabid arguing over the merits of one kind of lube or another, like the meaning of their life is at stake. It's worse than religion. I just don't get why it's so exciting.
I guess it depends on what kind of lube you are talking about and how you use it. I can think of some exciting contexts.
I can think of some exciting contexts.
Non-metallic, I assume. ;)
TheNegativeOne
03-22-16, 20:07
A soldier with thousands of rounds at his disposal, but with a dry gun, and nothing that he can use for lube in sight? Doubtful. At a minimum a ounce of oil can be taken from the engine of a vehicle to lube the gun.
I can see this test as entertaining, but totally unrealistic.
Its not meant to be realistic. It goes beyond realistic. I found it entertaining and informative.
Non-metallic, I assume. ;)
Well....mostly, I guess. But necessity is the mother of invention.
Why is lubrication always such a hotly debated topic? It doesn't matter if its cars, lawnmowers or guns, guys get rabid arguing over the merits of one kind of lube or another, like the meaning of their life is at stake. It's worse than religion. I just don't get why it's so exciting.
People have probably died from not using lube... especially because they were told their gun didn't need it.. especially in the 70s.
I know there were more influential contributing factors, but these claims were a part, imo. How many times do people claim this and testing proves otherwise?
Edited as I got confused on which thread this was.
Testing it is one thing. Suggesting dry is good is another story. I don't care what you use, keep it wet so you don't have to bum mine when your gun goes down.
Bayoublaster
03-23-16, 11:30
I'm going to stick with what I've been taught, keep oiling the gun. Filthy 14 and other tests show it works.
TheNegativeOne
03-24-16, 10:41
I'm going to stick with what I've been taught, keep oiling the gun. Filthy 14 and other tests show it works.
Or use froglube but that wasnt the point of the video. The video was about how an AR can perform in very adverse conditions. Regardless of the "Tier" bs.
joedirt199
03-24-16, 14:20
Well in our last issuing or rifles at our department we got 2 newer rock rivers and an old A1 20". He told us to run them dry because oil just catches dirt. We broke them down and cleaned them before hitting the range and qualifying. We had several failures to fully go into battery and the bolts felt sticky from all the dirt. We went through 2-3 cases of remington soft point. I took it home and gave the three we were assigned a good oiling because we need to depend on them to repeat going bang in shitty situations. Not sure what class or instructor he learned it from but that is the first time I have seen them offer that advice.
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