View Full Version : Compatibility issue - Geissele triggers and BAD selectors.
ManuRyujin
03-17-16, 17:26
Built two lowers today, ran into an issue.
Lower 1:
Noveske Gen3 lower.
Geissele SSA-E
BAD-CASS Short throw selector.
Lower 2:
Noveske Gen3 lower.
Geissele SSA-E
BAD-ASS Short throw selector.
Yes, I filed off the nub.
Now, I've had success with these combos before. I've used the CASS with an SSA on a spikes lower, and the exact same set up as the first on a Gen3 Noveske. No issue.
But today, when I went to function check, the selector blocked the trigger from allowing the hammer to fall, on both lowers. I disassembled, inspected, and everything seemed in order at a cursory glance, and I put them back together to try again; failure.
So I first called Battle Arms Development, and asked if there was a know compatibility issue, and sure enough the tech immediately conceded there was. He went on to elaborate on how (allegedly) Geissele has changed their production and switched to casted parts vice machined, and that the tolerances now fluctuate, resulting in the failure I experienced. Initially incredulous, I called Geissele. The person I spoke with didn't deny that they had changed production methods, but went on to explain that the issue was with the BAD short throw selector and that they had duplicated the error, aware that it existed, and then tested those same triggers with various other milspec selectors and found no issues.
Now, I'll admit to a certain degree of fanboy-ism with both these companies, so I'm a little at a loss as to which direction to direct my ire. Additionally, returning the parts presents a complication, seeing as how I did machine off the nub on the selectors, and frankly it was a significant emotional experience this time around getting that damn SSA-E in. It was tight. So I'm reticent to remove/return either part and for the moment I simply flipped the selectors around into the 90 degree position.
So, I'm inviting any thoughts, advice, or counseling on how to best move forward.
I have 4 rifles. All of them have SD-E's or SD-C geissele triggers, and all of them have a 45 degree safety from BATTLE ARMS. No issues whatsoever
ManuRyujin
03-17-16, 18:20
Yes, same here. I have several rifles with various combinations of Geissele and BAD, and this is new. Both companies acknowledge it.
Same boat as Lopro619 above. BAD selectors and Geiselle triggers in two rifles that have run without issue.
I am putting together another rifle Friday and I'll have to see if any issues arise. BAD selector and a SD-C trigger.
I've used a Geissele SD-C and SD-E with BAD safeties with no issue. FWIW I've been trying the AXTS Talon safeties in lieu of BAD. They do 90 or 45 degrees, are of equal quality IMO, cost less, and don't have a nub you have to grind off.
ManuRyujin
03-17-16, 20:29
Thanks for the heads up, I like the AXTS charging handles, I'll have to take a look at the selectors.
Rayrevolver
03-17-16, 20:37
I had the same issue with an early AXTS 45/90 and a SD-C, but only using the 45 degree detent (like you, the 90 worked). AXTS was aware of the problem and sent me a new barrel. The old barrel that didn't work with the SD-C worked fine with ALG ACT and ALG QMS triggers in the 45 degree setting. AXTS did NOT want me to send it back, so I bought another kit with 4 levers and covered 3 rifles with 2 kits.
Not sure on the best path forward outside of selling the BAD stuff and trying AXTS.
556BlackRifle
03-17-16, 20:58
I've been bitten by that same bug. (Love both companies.) I have the original BAD CASS 90 and the new short / long throw. I was warned to avoid using it with the SSA-E trigger - so, on that rifle, I'm using an ALG ACT. It works great and it's really nice to have the versatility of the long / short throw along with the excellent levers that BAD offers.
Every AR I own has a Battle Arms Selector (almost all are 45°) and I have Geissele SSA, SSA-E and G2S triggers in addition to SIONICS Enhanced Triggers. No compatibility or functions issues at all.
Just finished the rifle I spoke about putting together...
BAD CASS, Geissele SD-C, ZERO issues. Both parts are brand new from their respective manufacturers.
38421
titsonritz
03-18-16, 22:37
So I first called Battle Arms Development, and asked if there was a know compatibility issue, and sure enough the tech immediately conceded there was. He went on to elaborate on how (allegedly) Geissele has changed their production and switched to casted parts vice machined, and that the tolerances now fluctuate, resulting in the failure I experienced. Initially incredulous, I called Geissele. The person I spoke with didn't deny that they had changed production methods, but went on to explain that the issue was with the BAD short throw selector and that they had duplicated the error, aware that it existed, and then tested those same triggers with various other milspec selectors and found no issues.
This is a little disconcerting, I was planning on getting a BAD-CASS and a Geissele trigger for my next build. That said I have used AXTS and BAD-ASS selectors with Geissele and ALG ACT triggers with zero issues at this point.
I've got 5 ar15's all with bad ass 45's and all with sd-c or sd-e never an issue for me either last one was pen 5 months ago got me a little skeptical about the one I'm building for my wife keep us posted
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DreadPirateMoyer
05-30-16, 22:52
Welp, it happened to me.
After finding a loose screw on one of my BAD-ASSes, I decided to do a full upgrade across my collection to BAD-CASSes. All my guns ran Geissele SSAs and BAD-ASSes prior to this with no issue, with the SSAs from 2011 (EDIT: actually 2013) and the BAD-ASSes from 2013. Knowing this, if there were any dimensional changes found during the collection-wide upgrade that caused issues, the problematic changes would then be on the new BAD-CASSes. No problems could be blamed on a machining change at Geissele due to the age of my SSAs.
And, of course, I got the problems in this thread: trigger won't drop even with the safety disengaged. Admittedly, I only installed one and had this issue, but since installation of the others requires voiding the warranty and also making them unreturnable (filing the nub), I decided to cut my losses, send the others back for a refund, and will be reselling the lone, disfunctional BAD-CASS with full disclosure about SSA trigger interference.
For the record, I contacted BAD about this and this was the response I got:
Because of ongoing changes thru out the industry in the designs and dimensions of trigger groups we always warn our customers in the web page notes there might be fitting required to install our safety selctors. Yes, filing off the 'nub or pin' voids the warranty.
Really disappointing service, and a really disappointing change on what is otherwise an awesome product. And they're right, by the way. Apparently this is such an issue that they now list it on their website. What a strange and bad change, especially since BAD used to sell their safeties bundled with Geissele triggers not so long ago.
Bah. Guess I'll go with KAC 90-degree selectors. If the screw comes lose, at worst I'll still have a RH safety. Either way, can't recommend BAD safeties to anyome running Geissele triggers at this point. A geometry change was made somewhere along the line, and it wasn't on Geissele's end. What a shame.
Welp, it happened to me.
After finding a loose screw on one of my BAD-ASSes, I decided to do a full upgrade across my collection to BAD-CASSes. All my guns ran Geissele SSAs and BAD-ASSes prior to this with no issue, with the SSAs from 2011 and the BAD-ASSes from 2013. Knowing this, if there were any dimensional changes found during the collection-wide upgrade that caused issues, the problematic changes would then be on the new BAD-CASSes. No problems could be blamed on a machining change at Geissele.
And, of course, I got the problems in this thread: trigger won't drop even with the safety disengaged.. Admittedly, I only installed one and had this issue, but since installation of the others requires voiding the warranty and also making them unreturnable (filing the nub), I decided to cut my losses, send the others back for a refund, and will be reselling the lone, disfunctional BAD-CASS with full disclosure about SSA trigger interference.
For the record, I contacted BAD about this and this was the response I got:
Really disappointing service, and a really disappointing change on what is otherwise an awesome product. And they're right, by the way. Apparently this is such an issue that they now list it on their website. What a strange and bad change, especially since BAD used to sell their safeties bundled with Geissele triggers not so long ago.
Bah. Guess I'll go with KAC 90-degree selectors. If the screw comes lose, at worst I'll still have a RH safety. Either way, can't recommend BAD safeties to anyome running Geissele triggers at this point. A geometry change was made somewhere along the line, and it wasn't on Geissele's end. What a shame.
Check out the AXTS Talon.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interestingly I have a combination of all those and absolutely ZERO issues.
jerrysimons
05-31-16, 01:28
Wow, this development is disconcerting. My lower recipe includes a Geissele with a BAD CASS *45. Four examples I have built had no problems. I am assuming that if the configuration worked at first, it will continue working. What did BAD change about their design?
If I have to ditch one company or the other going forward it will be Geissele's triggers that I keep and a new safety selector I will find.
jerrysimons
05-31-16, 01:38
"NEW* UPGRADED REVERSIBLE 50°/ 90° THROW
Some fitting may be required with Geissele Triggers on the 50° Short-Throw side."
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-cass-sa-st-combat-ambi-safety-selector-ar15-ar10r
From the web page. It seems BAD took the short throw from 45* to 50* when they upgraded to the reversable core. Seems they are taking the lawyer thing over the top. First the pin and now, it seems, this.
Sucks too because they had the best feeling throw of all the sort throws I have tried.
DreadPirateMoyer
05-31-16, 08:10
Interestingly I have a combination of all those and absolutely ZERO issues.
Exactly! Same here until now. I actually scoffed at this thread the first time I saw it. How recent was your latest install of an SSA/BAD ambi selector? I ask because based on forum posts here and in other places, it looks like this is a really recent dimensional change (last few months). I think people with BAD safeties purchased prior to this won't have any problems.
Wow, this development is disconcerting. My lower recipe includes a Geissele with a BAD CASS *45. Four examples I have built had no problems. I am assuming that if the configuration worked at first, it will continue working. What did BAD change about their design?
If I have to ditch one company or the other going forward it will be Geissele's triggers that I keep and a new safety selector I will find.
Yup, same boat here. If I have to choose between a Geissele trigger and handfitting an AR15 safety due to compatibility issues, the Geissele will win every time. This isn't a 1911.
"NEW* UPGRADED REVERSIBLE 50°/ 90° THROW
Some fitting may be required with Geissele Triggers on the 50° Short-Throw side."
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-cass-sa-st-combat-ambi-safety-selector-ar15-ar10r
From the web page. It seems BAD took the short throw from 45* to 50* when they upgraded to the reversable core. Seems they are taking the lawyer thing over the top. First the pin and now, it seems, this.
Sucks too because they had the best feeling throw of all the sort throws I have tried.
That's the one. I'm not sure why the change was made, but that is indeed the disclaimer. And again, it has to be a dimensional change on their end, not Geissele's, since my SSAs are old and worked with older BAD-ASSes to boot. Can't blame Geissele for that.
DreadPirateMoyer
05-31-16, 08:25
Correction, my SSAs are from 2013. I was looking at the wrong receipts in my archives. Point still stands.
556BlackRifle
05-31-16, 09:13
"NEW* UPGRADED REVERSIBLE 50°/ 90° THROW
Some fitting may be required with Geissele Triggers on the 50° Short-Throw side."
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-cass-sa-st-combat-ambi-safety-selector-ar15-ar10r
From the web page. It seems BAD took the short throw from 45* to 50* when they upgraded to the reversable core. Seems they are taking the lawyer thing over the top. First the pin and now, it seems, this.
Sucks too because they had the best feeling throw of all the sort throws I have tried.
This is what BAD warned me about when I ordered the new dual core selector. I'm currently running it with an ALG ACT and it's been great. When I get back home, I think I'll throw it into another rifle with an SSA-E just to see what happens.
On a side note, I had a problem with an AXTS Tallon in that it switched from safe to fire / vice versa with very little resistance. I gave it a second try and I'm able to report that the new unit has very positive stops. (45 and 90) I'll be using more in the future and will report back what I see but for now, I'm happy with the replacement unit.
That sux. I have an SDE inbound and was hoping to couple it with a BAD safety. Wonder what the deal is?
DreadPirateMoyer
05-31-16, 10:09
This is what BAD warned me about when I ordered the new dual core selector. I'm currently running it with an ALG ACT and it's been great. When I get back home, I think I'll throw it into another rifle with an SSA-E just to see what happens.
On a side note, I had a problem with an AXTS Tallon in that it switched from safe to fire / vice versa with very little resistance. I gave it a second try and I'm able to report that the new unit has very positive stops. (45 and 90) I'll be using more in the future and will report back what I see but for now, I'm happy with the replacement unit.
I read multiple reports on the lack of positive engagement on the Talon, which is why I chose the KAC 90-degree over it. Glad to hear it may be solved. Maybe I will use the Talon as my BAD replacement after all.
That sux. I have an SDE inbound and was hoping to couple it with a BAD safety. Wonder what the deal is?
Not sure. And it may not be all BAD safeties. May only be a few, and even then, maybe only certain combos of BAD safeties and Geissele triggers due to tolerance stacking. That said, I wasn't willing to find out. Like I said, filing the lawyer nub would make it unwarrantable and unreturnable, so it was an experiment too expensive for me to try.
jerrysimons
05-31-16, 11:32
Exactly! Same here until now. I actually scoffed at this thread the first time I saw it. How recent was your latest install of an SSA/BAD ambi selector? I ask because based on forum posts here and in other places, it looks like this is a really recent dimensional change (last few months). I think people with BAD safeties purchased prior to this won't have any problems.
Yup, same boat here. If I have to choose between a Geissele trigger and handfitting an AR15 safety due to compatibility issues, the Geissele will win every time. This isn't a 1911.
That's the one. I'm not sure why the change was made, but that is indeed the disclaimer. And again, it has to be a dimensional change on their end, not Geissele's, since my SSAs are old and worked with older BAD-ASSes to boot. Can't blame Geissele for that.
Sounds like it is only the short throw with the compatibility issue. The op said he flipped to 90* in the meantime.
BAD 45* short throws have the best feel but other short throw designs work just fine with Geissele triggers. V7WS and Noveske come to mind. V7WS is the more robust of the two, it is a little stiff to throw but works great, is compatible with Geissele triggers, will not rust, AND was the first to do the reversable core 90*/57*. The levers have notches that fit into a protrusion n the core that takes the force of rotation of the screw.
It is shady of BAD to blame it on Geissele without mentioning their own design changes. What kind of fitting are we talking about here? I am fine grinding the lawyer pin off as it serves no function but I am reticent to file engagement surfaces or functional part of the geometry.
As far as i know, geissele's have always been cast, which isn't a big deal, after all, mil-spec FCG's are cast.
DreadPirateMoyer
05-31-16, 12:05
Yeah, the 90 degree portion seemed to work fine, but I didn't buy the BAD selectors to do a 90 degree throw (as I'd bet you agree) and also didn't do a full install on the 90 side, so I can't say for sure.
Fitting would be filing or otherwise grinding down the scalloped section in the middle of the safety barrel to provide further clearance for the final travel of the rear portion or the trigger to fully rise. As is, it's too low to allow the Geissele trigger its final travel to release the hammer.
Not my cup of tea. I could do it, but I shouldn't have to. Like I said, AR15 here, not a 1911.
As for the Geissele stuff, just want to clarify that BAD never directly pointed the finger at Geissele with me (though did seem to blame it on ongoing changes in the dimensions of aftermarket trigger groups, which is total BS in my case; it was definitely on BAD's end, not Geissele's). That was with the OP.
I just had a SSA delivered today and have a CASS-ST already installed on the lower. This is the 50* throw but NOT the dual core they make now. I will install the SSA tomorrow morning or Thursday morning at the latest and report back.
556BlackRifle
05-31-16, 20:26
I just had a SSA delivered today and have a CASS-ST already installed on the lower. This is the 50* throw but NOT the dual core they make now. I will install the SSA tomorrow morning or Thursday morning at the latest and report back.
I was told that only the dual core version that is experiencing the problem with Geissele triggers.
IB Slingin
06-01-16, 13:42
To those that are having fitting issues, can you see where the contact is and does it seem like an easy fix? Do you think all that is required is a little filing/grinding or does it appear more involved than that? I get the whole "we shouldnt have to touch it, it should work out of the box" thing. Im just wondering if its worth the hassle.
DreadPirateMoyer
06-01-16, 14:39
Yup, contact area is visible. Filing/grinding would take care of it, probably with some cold blue afterward to help avoid having exposed metal.
Would require a bunch of trial and error to see how much filing/grinding is necessary, which is annoying in and of itself, but messing with safeties scares me in general. I'm not sure what the proper clearance should be or if I'll compromise it, so...yeah, even if I were cool with kitchen top gunsmithing it in a theoretical way, I still probably wouldn't do it.
556BlackRifle
06-01-16, 21:42
If you decide to file the selector, you can forget about your warranty.
BAD makes some great products. I really hope they take ownership of this issue and fix it so it works like the other selectors do. If Geissele did change their manufacturing process it would be great to see these companies working together to resolve this issue.
I have an older 50* selector (not dual core) that functions fine with a SSA I just installed this morning.
I wouldn't want to grid/file a safety to fit and work with a trigger. Does not give me a good feeling.
Oddly enough, I read this thread a few days back and though to myself, that's odd I have several BAD 45's and G triggers, without issue. Of course I basically jinxed myself, because I just put together a lower with an SSA-E and BAD 45* and it won't fire. The BAD is different than all the other ones I have, it has a gold colored core vs black, not sure if that is the difference. I of course have already filed the nub - although with Brownell's Edge/Forever Warranty they would still probably take it back, but I wouldn't feel right about it. I will probably swap it with one of my other setups with MBT trigger and see if they both work after swapping the safeties...
EDIT - just moved some triggers/safeties around - same issue with a Larue MBT - short throw won't fire, 90* will fire. Definitely an issue. Don't think I will be buying anymore of the "combo" throw version again. Heck I didn't even know I was buying it this time, Brownell's picture showed/still shows the original black center section model. :(.
DreadPirateMoyer
06-06-16, 15:56
Oddly enough, I read this thread a few days back and though to myself, that's odd I have several BAD 45's and G triggers, without issue. Of course I basically jinxed myself, because I just put together a lower with an SSA-E and BAD 45* and it won't fire. The BAD is different than all the other ones I have, it has a gold colored core vs black, not sure if that is the difference. I of course have already filed the nub - although with Brownell's Edge/Forever Warranty they would still probably take it back, but I wouldn't feel right about it. I will probably swap it with one of my other setups with MBT trigger and see if they both work after swapping the safeties...
EDIT - just moved some triggers/safeties around - same issue with a Larue MBT - short throw won't fire, 90* will fire. Definitely an issue. Don't think I will be buying anymore of the "combo" throw version again. Heck I didn't even know I was buying it this time, Brownell's picture showed/still shows the original black center section model. :(.
Ugh, seems like it's more pervasive than Geissele, and on the advantageous side of the lever (short-throw). Also seems like it's new production stuff, as I felt like you did when I ordered mine. I don't even think the non-combo barrels are available anymore.
Stinks.
As zackmars mentioned the triggers have been cast for a long time. I'm sure Geissele could tell you what year but it was a long time ago. AFAIK they only mill for lower production runs/orders. Here is an example SCAR was milled then cast so $75 cheaper: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/228204_Geissele_2013.html
Sounds like BAD needs to get you some working safeties. All my old ones work fine.
I just installed 3 of the BAD 50 degree selectors with Geissele triggers (2 - SSA and 1 G2S) and all 3 had to be file fit. I can tell your that the amount of material I had to remove was minimal. While extremely annoyed when I realized I had to do this, it only took a few minutes of filing and trial fitting on each. A Kobalt micro diamond file made short work of it.
I just installed 3 of the BAD 50 degree selectors with Geissele triggers (2 - SSA and 1 G2S) and all 3 had to be file fit. I can tell your that the amount of material I had to remove was minimal. While extremely annoyed when I realized I had to do this, it only took a few minutes of filing and trial fitting on each. A Kobalt micro diamond file made short work of it.
I don't care how simple or easy it is to make it work.... When you spend $50-$75 for a safety it should work out of the box. Not trim to fit. The BAD-ASS is one of the more expensive safeties and people should not be having these problems.
DreadPirateMoyer
06-07-16, 08:05
As zackmars mentioned the triggers have been cast for a long time. I'm sure Geissele could tell you what year but it was a long time ago. AFAIK they only mill for lower production runs/orders. Here is an example SCAR was milled then cast so $75 cheaper: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/228204_Geissele_2013.html
Sounds like BAD needs to get you some working safeties. All my old ones work fine.
Good to know, and I agree. Unfortunately, they saw fit when I contacted them to tell me it's my problem and I need to fit the safeties. What a joke. Returned the unopened safeties for a loss due to restocking fees, will sell the safety I opened at full disclosure, and I have since moved on to KAC 90-degree ambi safeties with the same detents and springs as the BAD safeties since I find them to be stronger than mil-spec detents and springs. BAD lost a few hundred dollars in sales on me because of this, and I hope they lose more to spur them to reverse this dumb change.
What great product ruined by such a small, arbitrary design decision.
I don't care how simple or easy it is to make it work.... When you spend $50-$75 for a safety it should work out of the box. Not trim to fit. The BAD-ASS is one of the more expensive safeties and people should not be having these problems.
Agreed.
Is BAD going to weigh in on this discussion?
I know there can be tolerance stacking that can cause a part to not fit, but for them to basically say to trim it is ridiculous. This is an AR.... Not a 1911. Has their QC and CS gone down hill?
I want to see what BAD has to say about this.
Is BAD going to weigh in on this discussion?
I know there can be tolerance stacking that can cause a part to not fit, but for them to basically say to trim it is ridiculous. This is an AR.... Not a 1911. Has their QC and CS gone down hill?
I want to see what BAD has to say about this.
Just an observation from a non-BAD safety user (I do have other BAD products though), but this seems to be more of a design decision (or oversight) that simply ignores a portion of their user base than it does a QA/QC or CS issue. That is to say, you can't fault them for a lack of QC or CS (what can they do, besides refund your money?).
The takeaway for me is the silence on the issue. A simple "we're aware of it, please hang on" statement or even a "we've chosen a design approach that is not compatible with Geissele triggers" would suffice. My guess is they're lacking in the PR department and don't have a solution yet, as evident by the silence. Considering that many of our favorite AR accessory manufacturers are relatively small companies, this wouldn't be surprising.
Just my .02, and I'm not in any way trying to defend them.
Just an observation from a non-BAD safety user (I do have other BAD products though), but this seems to be more of a design decision (or oversight) that simply ignores a portion of their user base than it does a QA/QC or CS issue. That is to say, you can't fault them for a lack of QC or CS (what can they do, besides refund your money?).
The takeaway for me is the silence on the issue. A simple "we're aware of it, please hang on" statement or even a "we've chosen a design approach that is not compatible with Geissele triggers" would suffice. My guess is they're lacking in the PR department and don't have a solution yet, as evident by the silence. Considering that many of our favorite AR accessory manufacturers are relatively small companies, this wouldn't be surprising.
Just my .02, and I'm not in any way trying to defend them.
But keep in mind they shifted the blame on Geissele's supposed design changes.
It would be nice to have BAD come in here
I can't understand how someone would replace a basically fail-proof 1 piece metal part with a part that is 5 pieces held together with tiny screws and Lock-Tite, but whatever.
BAD should really reconsider making their safeties interfere with G triggers. Who wastes that much money on a safety without also having a good trigger?
DreadPirateMoyer
06-08-16, 08:50
Not to mention Hiperfire and LaRue trigger interference too, so it looks like it extends beyond Geissele. Not that I'd ever use them, but still.
I agree that this is a conscious design change, not a QC/QA issue. The quality of the final product still seems great, just...not designed right anymore.
Schmalkald
06-08-16, 09:56
I've never understand what the value is of the "BAD" lever.
To achieve a complete modular design, it means both levers have to be detachable. Whether it's by means of screws, or the more complicated spring/detent lever retention system which has even more parts, the levers and centers can not be a single piece.
If the argument (a single piece, right hand shooter biased safety vs. a multi-part, fully modular ambidextrous safety) is to be used against my former company, then the same can be leveled against FN and HK, for theirs are fully modular as well, and both use screws, not the more complicated spring loaded detent design. A single piece safety and a fully modular ambi safety are quite different in design, I don't think they are directly comparable.
JP was the first one to have both levers detachable on an ambi selector in the market, they just didn't take it as far with the lever choices, you could put a cap or a full size lever on either side, JP didn't have short, thin, and other shapes available when BAD introduced the BAD-ASS and for the first few years, included all three levers in the package for $60.
In my previous role at BAD, and current position at Forward Controls, I've always been of the belief that parts count increase is a negative, and if the design has a higher parts count than the original component it's meant to be an improvement of, the higher parts count must bring overwhelming benefits to justify it. For an ambidextrous, fully modular safety, I deem the parts count increase is justified, and judging by the FN SCAR and HK AR safety design, I'm not alone.
The reversible design was developed and marketed after my departure so I can't comment on it.
I bet I could put 100000 rounds through my selector without the screws in, the fit is so tight with loctite. I do not like both sides full size as so many designs utilize. As Duffy said (much better) the design is modular this way.
Just bought two dual-barrel (short throw) BAD-CASS-ST safeties, and *was* completing my Aero M5 build (6.5 Creedmoor) tonight. Until I couldn't get the Geissele SSA to drop...
The "fitting" warning is something I hadn't noticed when I bought them two weeks ago (or so), so I am pissed because I was taking this rifle to the desert for the 3-day shoot this weekend. I'm going to return them, and go with AXTS - thanks for the suggestion and for the thread. I thought I was going crazy for a few minutes...
I bet I could put 100000 rounds through my selector without the screws in, the fit is so tight with loctite. I do not like both sides full size as so many designs utilize. As Duffy said (much better) the design is modular this way.
The couple of BAD-CASS safeties I've seen/installed had dovetails that were so loose, I don't think they did anything that the original design wouldn't. Did you glue yours together with Lock-Tite?
DreadPirateMoyer
06-09-16, 09:36
Just bought two dual-barrel (short throw) BAD-CASS-ST safeties, and *was* completing my Aero M5 build (6.5 Creedmoor) tonight. Until I couldn't get the Geissele SSA to drop...
The "fitting" warning is something I hadn't noticed when I bought them two weeks ago (or so), so I am pissed because I was taking this rifle to the desert for the 3-day shoot this weekend. I'm going to return them, and go with AXTS - thanks for the suggestion and for the thread. I thought I was going crazy for a few minutes...
Shame, right?
The couple of BAD-CASS safeties I've seen/installed had dovetails that were so loose, I don't think they did anything that the original design wouldn't. Did you glue yours together with Lock-Tite?
I noticed the same on my CASSes. I wasn't sure what everyone was talking about other than it reduces pull-out stress on the fastener if something would tug outward on the lever. Without the fastener, my levers would definitely come off in use.
And anyway, I went with KAC ambi 90s after this experience. Less parts, and only one screw, so if it fails, I still have a regular safety. No real downside. Simple. Works.
I know this is an old thread but I just found it because I also just had issues w/a newly received BAD-CASS-ST safety trying to install it w/my Geissele SSA-E trigger. I've got 3 other 'older' BAD Short Throw safeties installed on previous builds all w/various Geissele triggers all function perfectly. I guess the new 50/90 Degree safeties are giving lots of people trouble and I don't know why Battle Arms Development changed a good and proven design to one that has lots of known issues?!?! I sent BA an email and hope they have some older stock 45 degree center sections available and will send that out. Otherwise I've got a $100 90 safety that's basically the same thing I was replacing... not good and I will not buy any of their products going forward if they can't rectify this. I've always been a fan of their stuff so hopefully they'll fix this issue.
Wow I never say this thread previously and was a little surprised, been running a SD3G with BAD 45 degree selectors (not filed) and no issues, been running it hard for a few years now.
I have 3 other 45 degree BAD safeties w 3 various Geissele triggers and they've been flawless. It's this newer reversible version that causes the issues. Emailed Battle Arms and they're checking to see if they have any of the 45 degree compatible center sections and will send me a replacement if they do. I'll report back with the results when I have any.
**** Update ****
Battle Arms Dev sent me out a new 45/90 center section that apparently has been modified to work w/ Geissele triggers. There is a bit steeper cut on the 45 (or 50... whatever they're calling it these days) side. I took a couple pics of the 2 side by side. The Modified Center section is on the left and has a small dot/punch on it. I installed it and it works perfectly w/my SSA trigger. :)5208452085
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