View Full Version : Why do people pay $2300+ for a custom glock?
Please educate me on Salient/Agency arms. Why are people so willing to pay so much money for a glock with, to my untrained eye, a trigger, stippling, barrel, and slide cuts? Don't get me wrong, I'm a glock guy, but this craze seems to be getting out of hand. I may be biased because I understand how simple it is to create those slide cuts in a program like solidworks, but I can't seem to put together why someone would pay that much except to look cool on instagram. Enlighten me.
I have no experience with Salient/Agency Arms Glocks. What I think is this: not everyone is a gun guy and/or understands much about Glocks or other guns for that matter. At the same time there's a lot of people with a lot of money to spend, and to them really the $2300 isn't all that much.
This isn't the best analogy, but you can spend anywhere from $400 - $40000 on a watch. I'm not comparing the quality/time put into manufacturing the more expensive watches; the point I'm trying to highlight is that there's people out there that do have the disposable income to drop on something like an expensive watch. So they will simply because they can.
Instagram/Facebook likes?
mkmckinley
03-18-16, 19:59
Perceived status, showing off, owning the new, cool thing etc.
Please educate me on Salient/Agency arms. Why are people so willing to pay so much money for a glock with, to my untrained eye, a trigger, stippling, barrel, and slide cuts? Don't get me wrong, I'm a glock guy, but this craze seems to be getting out of hand. I may be biased because I understand how simple it is to create those slide cuts in a program like solidworks, but I can't seem to put together why someone would pay that much except to look cool on instagram. Enlighten me.
It's a combination of things.
Changing how the gun looks is a big part of it, but people engrave Purdeys or get custom paint jobs on cars for the same reason. Some folks buy in to the idea that those mods enhance performance, just like people hang odd things off of 1911s and buy Porsche 911s with whale tails. There's also a culture of spending a LOT of cash on mods just to be able to say that you did.
Okie John
I understand aesthetics, but I guess part of my question is there anything functionally better on these guns to justify the price?
I understand aesthetics, but I guess part of my question is there anything functionally better on these guns to justify the price?
It depends on who you ask. Some say yes. Others say that some of those mods actually hurt performance. But performance isn't necessarily the point.
Okie John
Part of it is that some need to have the latest and greatest, or at least the new hotness. So yeah, a status symbol. I see that some in the competitions that I shoot. Generally those are the guys who spend more on looks than I spent on my gun, my back up gun, and all my ammo, and car, and I will beat them like a rented mule from a step son because they aren't shooters, than are hobbyists with more money than brains.
Then you are the ones who think that they can buy their way to the top. Whether by buying the gun/s used by the top shooters, or thinking that if they are spending a lot they much be getting an something that the others don't. I refer to those guys as the gun of the month club. And there have been seasons where I have shot against some of these guys and damn near every month they were shooting something different. Buy hardware is not going to fix a software issue and every gun is going to be a little different, when you are in a game of fractions a little bit different can cost you lots, at least in my experience when you are in the top brackets, that one miss can be the game.
Now, all of that said, could the guns offer something over the regular or even lesser priced models that have had some work done? Sure. My current competition gun that I have been shooting since June of last year, does have a lot of very small features that do offer improvements over my older gun and I do notice them, and when I calculate my stats for the last year from when I went to it to what I was doing with my older gun, there was an improvement, albeit that of less than 1%, about .6% if I recall right. Granted I switched mid season and I will have a better idea after I spend more time behind with the competition season ramping up. Does that make that gun worth literally 5 times what I paid for my old gun? Debatable. Highly debatable.
In the end I would say this, if you at the point where you are outshooting and outperforming the gun you have, then you need to start looking at something better, and possible more expensive to gain an improvement over what you have currently. If you can't do that though, honestly, you are wasting money on gear when you need to build skill. I am no less guilty of that than anyone else here, but it is the truth. Find a gun that fits you, that you like, that is reliable, and learn it inside and out, and run it until the tits fall off. See what you need changed to improve YOUR performance, not what you see, and in the end you will improve yourself. Otherwise you are chasing smoke.
I think it makes people feel good so it helps with their confidence. Its like when you got new shoes as a kid it made you feel like you can run faster. Id prefer to pay for ammunition or more training.
Linebacker
03-18-16, 21:06
Simplicity is beauty in my eyes. No race guns for me.
Simplicity is beauty in my eyes. No race guns for me.
I agree with Linbacker, but I also like my AK's without tactical stocks and hand guards.:)
teutonicpolymer
03-18-16, 22:05
Please don't call these Glocks race guns. Just because something is altered doesn't make it a racegun and the term is always used as a dig on this site on guns and yet here we are in 2016 with red dots and magwells on pistols being accepted, not to mention red dots in general, extended and free floated handguards for AR's, etc.
Some of these cost more than a STI 2011 and about the same as a tuned 2011 from various places or a semi-custom/custom 1911. Buying one of these is just silly when you can get any number of other things for that money.
Some is for collectors, some is for people looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.
I'm a minimalist, I want everything that will give me and edge, and nothing that wont. That means sights, or an rds (future), light and silencer available.
Highly modified guns are for the noobs, or the master class +. The rest gets lost on us ABC shooters and we'd be better off mastering stock guns.. just my .02.
LOL!
I dunno.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
I have nothing to add regarding why people buy these, but I do know why I *don't*:
Stock gun + stock trigger + carry sights + carry holster + shooting from concealment = excellent excuses for being slow
If I shot a gun with all the bells and whistles, I might think that I sucked. I don't need that aggravation in my life.
Eurodriver
03-19-16, 06:01
I think it makes people feel good so it helps with their confidence. Its like when you got new shoes as a kid it made you feel like you can run faster. Id prefer to pay for ammunition or more training.
Amen. I have never ever ever understood the Instagram gun thing (or the ridiculous custom engraving/cerakoting/etc that goes with it)
2300 would buy a lot of square bills...
My brother has no problem spending 4-5k on a shotgun and another grand on a scope, but then again he could win 6k every Saturday with the right luck. Other guns he buys to expand his collection.
I can't think of any gun I'd spend 2300 on, much less a glock. I paid 500 for a glock 20 once....hopefully I've learned my lesson.
titsonritz
03-19-16, 12:01
I don't man, those SSVI pistols are pretty sexy.
Because people are crazy.
I don't mind dumping as much money as it takes for my rifle to be lightweight, accurate, and handy.
But a Glock? No. Glocks weren't meant to be ornate. They are soulless, godless pistols designed for killing things up.
HK over engineers and can be pricey...but it's all there. The expense is there.
1911s actually do require competent fitting.
Glock is literally the vaporwave of handgunnery. Droning, empty, bereft of any essence but infectious. It gives you what you need. An eerie sense of peace and reliability. Like stumbling upon proof that we live in a godless void and everything is meaningless but in a comforting way, like...there's no mystery. A bright sunshine day during a cold spell.
To try to pimp out such harsh and clear truth is just an insult to everyone's intelligence and I vociferously oppose such garish and tacky modifications.
Plus instagram is twitter for illiterate people
Same reasons people buy Audemars Piguet over Rolex over Casio watches. Bentley over Mercedes over Honda cars. Some people got money. The $38,000 Royal Oak likely tells time worse than a $100 WaveCeptor.
Please educate me on Salient/Agency arms. Why are people so willing to pay so much money for a glock with, to my untrained eye, a trigger, stippling, barrel, and slide cuts? Don't get me wrong, I'm a glock guy, but this craze seems to be getting out of hand. I may be biased because I understand how simple it is to create those slide cuts in a program like solidworks, but I can't seem to put together why someone would pay that much except to look cool on instagram. Enlighten me.
SAI is repugnant. Here is the way to spend money on a Glock (prices include shipping):
$600 Glock 19
$600 Bar-Sto barrel gunsmith fit by Bar-Sto
$600 Stippling by Tactical Texture and Triggers
$100 Sights
$30 OEM -connector / basement trigger work. Maybe try an apex trigger for $100
$80 Nitride the Bar-Sto
$320 NP3+ finish by Robar. The current Glock finish can rust.
$2330. A drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of all that is tactical (long range rifles, NV, Thermal, class 3, etc).
Dionysusigma
03-19-16, 14:29
My philosophy regarding guns is the same regarding boots, tools, and cars: they're appliances. I use them to accomplish a particular task. If I spend, say, $1000 on something, it's most likely because I don't want to pay $650 twice because the first one broke/didn't fit/etc. I'd rather spend $300 on a pair of boots that will last years instead of $150 on a pair that go T.U. in a matter of months (only exception here is a pair of Bates Delta 8s that I picked up in 2011, wear all the time, and still look new). At work, the tools I use the most aren't any unusual size or hard to find, but because I use them literally every day, they're either Proto or Snap On. The lesser-used ones are... well, about 7-8 different manufacturers. They've all got "battle scars" and worn finish and such, but not a single spot of rust on any of them. And the tool bag was probably made in the 50s (old canvas USGI surplus thing).
All that said, I would never buy this (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Browning-Hi-Power-mm-Engraved/1783501.uts), but I can certainly see why someone would.
MountainRaven
03-19-16, 14:59
My guess?
In a world where you spent $4,000 on your wrist watch, $4,000 on a home defense gun you're probably never going to need, $4,000 on a 1911 that you'll never carry, $4,000 on a side-by-side you'll probably never take hunting, $4,000 on an over/under you'll probably never win a competition with, $6,000+ on a long-range rig that is literally nothing but a toy, and you're spending $2,000± every month on a mortgage or rent, car loans or leases, taxes, &c.... $2,300+ on a Glock you'll actually carry and might actually use to save your life isn't exactly nonsensical. It isn't even that unusual as a hobby gun, like the HD carbine, 1911, shotguns, &c.
Please educate me on Salient/Agency arms. Why are people so willing to pay so much money for a glock with, to my untrained eye, a trigger, stippling, barrel, and slide cuts? Don't get me wrong, I'm a glock guy, but this craze seems to be getting out of hand. I may be biased because I understand how simple it is to create those slide cuts in a program like solidworks, but I can't seem to put together why someone would pay that much except to look cool on instagram. Enlighten me.
Preeeetty sure there's still work to do after solidworks.
Im not justifying them...like you I'm not the target consumer. But I do know a bit about manufacturing, and some of the threads lately comparing a product to what a skilled individual can accomplish on their own are not apples to oranges.
Not necessarily putting this one in that group, but there is a fair bit of expense involved in bringing something from concept, to reality, and then to production at a level that can support ongoing customer relationships. Warranty, liability, future R&D, etc.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Part of it is that some need to have the latest and greatest, or at least the new hotness. So yeah, a status symbol. I see that some in the competitions that I shoot. Generally those are the guys who spend more on looks than I spent on my gun, my back up gun, and all my ammo, and car, and I will beat them like a rented mule from a step son because they aren't shooters, than are hobbyists with more money than brains.
Then you are the ones who think that they can buy their way to the top. Whether by buying the gun/s used by the top shooters, or thinking that if they are spending a lot they much be getting an something that the others don't. I refer to those guys as the gun of the month club. And there have been seasons where I have shot against some of these guys and damn near every month they were shooting something different. Buy hardware is not going to fix a software issue and every gun is going to be a little different, when you are in a game of fractions a little bit different can cost you lots, at least in my experience when you are in the top brackets, that one miss can be the game.
Now, all of that said, could the guns offer something over the regular or even lesser priced models that have had some work done? Sure. My current competition gun that I have been shooting since June of last year, does have a lot of very small features that do offer improvements over my older gun and I do notice them, and when I calculate my stats for the last year from when I went to it to what I was doing with my older gun, there was an improvement, albeit that of less than 1%, about .6% if I recall right. Granted I switched mid season and I will have a better idea after I spend more time behind with the competition season ramping up. Does that make that gun worth literally 5 times what I paid for my old gun? Debatable. Highly debatable.
In the end I would say this, if you at the point where you are outshooting and outperforming the gun you have, then you need to start looking at something better, and possible more expensive to gain an improvement over what you have currently. If you can't do that though, honestly, you are wasting money on gear when you need to build skill. I am no less guilty of that than anyone else here, but it is the truth. Find a gun that fits you, that you like, that is reliable, and learn it inside and out, and run it until the tits fall off. See what you need changed to improve YOUR performance, not what you see, and in the end you will improve yourself. Otherwise you are chasing smoke.
^^^^
What he said.
A similar analogy is golf. Unless you already have the skills, the newest club technology will not help you. However, if you can shape shots at will, then yeah...the slightest edge in equipment might give you an advantage.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people try to fix software problems by upgrading their hardware.
Same reasons people buy Audemars Piguet over Rolex over Casio watches. Bentley over Mercedes over Honda cars. Some people got money. The $38,000 Royal Oak likely tells time worse than a $100 WaveCeptor.
Yup. Love the watch analogy. :)
The analogy of a watch would work if you were to say, "Why do people spend $2,300 on a Timex?"
:)
Sterling Archer
03-19-16, 20:06
The analogy of a watch would work if you were to say, "Why do people spend $2,300 on a Timex?"
:)
Nailed it!
Have not spent that much on any of my glocks. But have a 27, 19 and 22 all setup with RMR's, stipple jobs and aftermarket barrels. Agency Arms puts out a sweet trigger. Like everything else to each their own.
Mysteryman
03-19-16, 21:13
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people try to fix software problems by upgrading their hardware.
Absolutely sir!
Mm
MountainRaven
03-19-16, 23:09
The analogy of a watch would work if you were to say, "Why do people spend $2,300 on a Timex?"
:)
And yet they spend that kind of money on Casio G-Shocks.
The short answer to the question is this, because I can. I'm putting the cash aside to have a G19 Gen4 sent to Agency Arms for no other reason than I can. Same reason I have a $2k plus AR and will soon have a bolt gun that starts at $3k. The Agency gun really doesn't do anything my daily carry G19 already does. I just want one and have the expendable cash to do it. Same reason behind my Audi. Did my GTI do the same job and do it well, of course. I wanted and can have the Audi.
My watch though is a $150 basic G-Shock. Though my next watch will be worthy of the fancy watch thread we have here.
rrpederson
03-20-16, 01:38
First, a brief bit of my history. Age:32, Years spent shooting:27(yes, first round I ever fired was when I was 5.) Former Infantry Marine, with 3 tours in Iraq and countless gun fights. Currently employed as a Law Enforcement Officer in a major city in Texas. Shot a lot of rounds, and been in more armed engagements than I can remember. Not bragging here just trying to give some perspective on my particular range of shooting experience.
It's not quite $2300.00, but i spent roughly $1700 on my ZEV 17. Did I pay more than it cost them to make? Of course. With it, can I put more rounds on target faster and with a tighter group than my issued duty weapon? Hell yes. Was it worth it to me to buy? Absolutely, and I will explain why.
Before building this gun, I had never had the pleasure of a completely custom gun built from the ground up to my specification. I always used weapons that were issued to me, and completely stock. All the parts of this ZEV work in perfect concert with each other. I'm not a competition shooter, but if I were so inclined, I could take this gun onto the grounds of competition and I would feel confident. My personal skill on the other hand, would likely be the cause of my failure, lol, since I'm not a competition shooter. However, this pistol shoots more incredibly than I have the words or even time to describe. With the proper shooting technique the slide tracks quickly and with very little upward rise. Recoil is very easily managed. Shooting as fast as I can move the Fulcrum trigger, I can keep all 23 rounds on a 2/3 IPSC steel target at 25 yds. Now I know that doesn't impress everyone, but it sure impressed the hell out of me. For reference, the tempo was slightly faster than that of Travis Haley, demonstrating his Skimmer trigger on Youtube. The way the Zev and most other guns do this, is with a very light slide, extremely grippy frame, and one hell of a well engineered trigger and internals. The trigger only moves slightly more than it needs to, to release the striker. the striker is lightened, to enable the use of a lighter striker spring, which makes the trigger bar slide off the striker with less effort. All frictional surfaces of the internals are highly polished to decrease drag and therefore, felt effort. The package as a whole can be replicated for less than I spent but not without the investment of a lot more time, waiting for services to be done(slide cuts and frame texturing). I walked into DSG Arms in FT. Worth, TX and walked out with a completely custom ZEV pistol. I have had a ton of Glocks, Sigs, 1911's, you name it, and none of them have made me quite so happy to shoot. this is the reason I would buy another. Some people will read this and think I'm stupid because I spent so much money, but I had the money, and it the gun makes me extremely happy to shoot. So, why the heck wouldn't I spend it again?
To each their own. I'm not gonna spend $2300 on my Glock, but who knows, maybe if I win the lottery I would. Other things would still likely take priority (ammo, training, etc) but I realize that others have different priorities and things that float their boat. If Instagramming their pimped out Glocks is it, that's fine.
Why spend $2300 on a 1911 when I can buy a Rock Island Armory for $400?
I took a costa class last year and he had one of these guns, to say the least idk if it's was a ammo issue or a gun issue but he had more malfunctions than I could count. Fte Ftf etc. Don't get me wrong that dude could clear them so fast it was like it didn't malfunction at all but I wouldn't buy one
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only thing I've done to my Glocks is put grip tape on the top of the slide and undercut and stipple a Gen 3, and I just left the Gen 4 alone. LAV Wilson sights and call it a day.
May as well ask why do some folks spend more on rims and tires than their car is worth?
'MURICA... HELL YEAH!
Thats why... imagine if we were forced to buy everything from an approved list.
TheChunkNorris
03-20-16, 09:00
The short answer to the question is this, because I can. I'm putting the cash aside to have a G19 Gen4 sent to Agency Arms for no other reason than I can. Same reason I have a $2k plus AR and will soon have a bolt gun that starts at $3k. The Agency gun really doesn't do anything my daily carry G19 already does. I just want one and have the expendable cash to do it. Same reason behind my Audi. Did my GTI do the same job and do it well, of course. I wanted and can have the Audi.
My watch though is a $150 basic G-Shock. Though my next watch will be worthy of the fancy watch thread we have here.
Poor analogy... It's like putting diamonds on your basic G-shock and posting pics online.
And yet they spend that kind of money on Casio G-Shocks.
Precisely my point.
Why spend $2300 on a 1911 when I can buy a Rock Island Armory for $400?
And in this analogy the Glock is the Rock Island...now if you want to throw another $2,000 into a Rock Island, more power to you.
A very good friend of mine who is a long-time shooter and trainer said to me the other day, "I've been trying to get my Glock to perform as well as my more expensive handguns and I finally realized that I'm just wasting my time and money."
Bingo...
But to each his own.
I went down the "upgrade the Glock" road for a very long time until I finally realized:
(1) I was trying to solve shooting problems with hardware.
(2) I was trying to get a Glock to be something it was never engineered or designed to be.
(3) I realized that the Glock trigger will always be a Glock trigger no matter what you do to it.
I've never looked back.
To each his own though.
556BlackRifle
03-20-16, 10:12
Why do people pay $2300+ for a custom glock?
Because lazy people with more money than brains think that spending $$$$ on a gun will make them a good shooter. In reality buying a stock Glock and spending the rest of that money on training, ammo and practice will likely produce the desired result.
Because lazy people with more money than brains think that spending $$$$ on a gun will make them a good shooter. In reality buying a stock Glock and spending the rest of that money on training, ammo and practice will likely produce the desired result.
Bingo!
domestique
03-20-16, 10:31
I'm not the market audience... I would rather have an expensive, but well designed factory weapon (HK, LMT, KAC, Larue, AI, Surgeon, etc.).... something that is paying for r&d and not just fancy milling/paint.
I have no problem with someone dropping that coin on a Glock if they have the funds, and experience to take advantage of any performance gain. My issue would be with someone that only has 1 pistol, 2 boxes of ammo, and never took a class. That 2.5k could have bought: backup pistol, 3k+ of 9mm, and a nice 2 day class. At the end of the month the guy with 2 G19 pistols will be head and shoulders above the Salient Arms owning guy with only 45 rounds shot.
A similar analogy would be the kids that customize their 15 year old civics, but are still living in momma's basement, who have no money in the bank, and still working at the local 7-11.
Why are people so willing to pay so much money for a glock .
Because they can. In Poland we say "Kto bogatemu zabroni?" - "Who will forbid the rich?" (bad English, I know)
QuickStrike
03-20-16, 11:27
The value just isnt there. A $2,300 glock wont run any better than a stock gun. You take one of the best things the gun is known for (affordable reliability, ultilitarian nature) and add frivolous slide cuts and junk, not my cup of tea.
Now something like a 1911 with much hand fitting i understand the cost. But any polymer framed gun much over $1,000 is too much IMO.
I feel the same way about throwing tens of thousands into a honda civic.
TacMedic556
03-20-16, 12:16
From my observations, many of these individuals spend the extra money for several reasons:
1.) Overwhelming industry marketing pressure through social media (IG, FB, etc.) using firearms "celebrity" sell outs who need the money or sponsor.
2.) A distorted idea that somehow the magical gold colored barrel, and fancy laser cut spaceman designs cut into the slide will give them the ability to T-Zone Greedo from underneath a table with precision, and reflex accuracy!
3.) The perpetuating cycle of gun owners thinking that what they have is not good enough and they always need to and should improve their platforms instead of leaving as is.
4.)The desire to spend money due to excess funds
5.) The desire to see UPS pull up and open a box with something in it.
6.) The need to "keep up with the Jones's".
The list goes on. Like many on this forum have pointed out in the past, these are money transfer devices - transferring your money to someone else. I am not saying every add on is un necessary. I like to switch out sights - or order my Glocks with the night sights. Other than that, typically, they stay totally stock. I have shot alongside some good shooters that could run drills around the best of them and win - and they ran a totally stock Glock. It is never the gun - it is the shooter that counts.
If you get a blue label (LE price) Glock 19 for $425 right now, and put $2,000 into training and ammunition - you will run that gun better than 99% of the guys who own $2500 Glocks that look like they fell out of a comic book.
I will never understand it.
I wear a $15 Timex Ironman, so I'm likely not the intended demographic for this kinda thing. But I agree with the other members saying that a $500 pistol + $2000 in ammo and training is a better investment than a $2500 pistol and no training.
Like I said...it's not for me. But, why all the hate? How many of you guys talking down folks who drop the coin on these, only bought a 6920? It's all you NEED...perfect analogy to a glock. Inexpensive, reliable, utilitarian...
I mean shit guys, this is still America. And yeah, I get it it's not for you or me, but to equate people who buy this with basement dwellers, people with expensive rims on shitty cars, etc?
Come on, now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was thinking more about the phenomenon of people buying Glocks and then putting hundreds or even thousands more dollars into them. Here's what I think might be going on.
First, the GLOCK is an enormously popular brand, for a wide variety of reasons, but none more important than
Glock's marketing prowess and how well they were able to have the Glock adopted by law enforcement agencies and Hollywood. It took the gun community by storm, and for good reason: it's a very simple and reliable firearm. It was a natural move away from revolvers to semi-auto when the Glocks came on the scene.
Second, as a result of the Glock being so popular many people embraced the Glock as their go-to semi-automatic handgun and as such there are a tremendous amount of Glock shooters out there who are looking for better performance out of a handgun that was never intended to be anything other than a reliably duty handgun providing adequate accuracy under the conditions a handgun is most frequently used in a LEO and military situation. It performs just fine under all those circumstances and for all those reasons. But let's be crystal clear here: the Glock is a fantastic handgun for the purpose for which it was designed and built. It is one of the most reliable handguns ever developed. It take a lot of abuse. It is extremely easy to maintain. It is extremely easy to learn how to shoot. It is extremely easy to use quickly if need be. The ONLY thing about stock Glocks that is universally recognized as a major flaw are the stock sights, but even those are serviceable, though most gun people will agree that if you are going to "upgrade" anything it is a matter of getting rid of the Glocks crappy sights. But that's it.
Third, for many people Glock may well have been their "gateway" drug into higher quality handguns and different handgun designs: notably DA/SA handguns and or even 1911s. Having therefore experiences much better triggers, they return to their Glocks and want more out of the Glock trigger, hence the huge after-market amount of upgraded Glock triggers.
Fourth, the upgrading and customization markets for Glocks is huge because the Glock market is huge, hence gun-gamers are looking to eek every bit of advantage adn speed out of their Glocks and that has led to many of the aftermarket improvements out there such as "match" barrels and slide customization, magwell customizations, frame and magwell modifications, etc. etc. You have top-tier people involved in this marketplace, guys like Larry Vickers. Everyone knows that the LAV is, at heart, a 1911 guy, but he knows how popular Glocks are and how many LEOs and civilians use one and he is an expert himself with the Glock and has developed great after-market parts for it. And you can list any number of other people like LAV producing very fine after-market upgrade options for the Glock.
Put these reasons all together and it is really easy why people who love their Glocks are willing, even eager, to sink $1000+ more dollars into a Glock, even spending sometimes more than that.
It makes little to no sense to those of us who appreciate the Glock for what it is, but have found higher quality and better performance elsewhere, but it makes perfect sense for Glock people. To each his own.
Just some thoughts, FWIW.
I was thinking more about the phenomenon of people buying Glocks and then putting hundreds or even thousands more dollars into them. Here's what I think might be going on.
First, the GLOCK is an enormously popular brand, for a wide variety of reasons, but none more important than
Glock's marketing prowess and how well they were able to have the Glock adopted by law enforcement agencies and Hollywood. It took the gun community by storm, and for good reason: it's a very simple and reliable firearm. It was a natural move away from revolvers to semi-auto when the Glocks came on the scene.
Second, as a result of the Glock being so popular many people embraced the Glock as their go-to semi-automatic handgun and as such there are a tremendous amount of Glock shooters out there who are looking for better performance out of a handgun that was never intended to be anything other than a reliably duty handgun providing adequate accuracy under the conditions a handgun is most frequently used in a LEO and military situation. It performs just fine under all those circumstances and for all those reasons. But let's be crystal clear here: the Glock is a fantastic handgun for the purpose for which it was designed and built. It is one of the most reliable handguns ever developed. It take a lot of abuse. It is extremely easy to maintain. It is extremely easy to learn how to shoot. It is extremely easy to use quickly if need be. The ONLY thing about stock Glocks that is universally recognized as a major flaw are the stock sights, but even those are serviceable, though most gun people will agree that if you are going to "upgrade" anything it is a matter of getting rid of the Glocks crappy sights. But that's it.
Third, for many people Glock may well have been their "gateway" drug into higher quality handguns and different handgun designs: notably DA/SA handguns and or even 1911s. Having therefore experiences much better triggers, they return to their Glocks and want more out of the Glock trigger, hence the huge after-market amount of upgraded Glock triggers.
Fourth, the upgrading and customization markets for Glocks is huge because the Glock market is huge, hence gun-gamers are looking to eek every bit of advantage adn speed out of their Glocks and that has led to many of the aftermarket improvements out there such as "match" barrels and slide customization, magwell customizations, frame and magwell modifications, etc. etc. You have top-tier people involved in this marketplace, guys like Larry Vickers. Everyone knows that the LAV is, at heart, a 1911 guy, but he knows how popular Glocks are and how many LEOs and civilians use one and he is an expert himself with the Glock and has developed great after-market parts for it. And you can list any number of other people like LAV producing very fine after-market upgrade options for the Glock.
Put these reasons all together and it is really easy why people who love their Glocks are willing, even eager, to sink $1000+ more dollars into a Glock, even spending sometimes more than that.
It makes little to no sense to those of us who appreciate the Glock for what it is, but have found higher quality and better performance elsewhere, but it makes perfect sense for Glock people. To each his own.
Just some thoughts, FWIW.
Yeah that's pretty well reasoned. But even the 1911 is improved over its original config. Aside from the "nostalgia boner" one might incur when shooting one of JB's originals, a modern Wilson is vastly superior performance wise.
Same for AR's. I know KAC has some proprietary stuff that improves the original design, and they certainly aren't inexpensive.
I'm not a glock guy...can't shoot one for shit. I don't know why. Maybe it's that ****ed up trigger. Either way, I understand why people who have the $$$ drop it.
And you your point, I don't really consider sights a mod, but rather a requirement.
Anyway....my .02
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because people are crazy.
I don't mind dumping as much money as it takes for my rifle to be lightweight, accurate, and handy.
But a Glock? No. Glocks weren't meant to be ornate. They are soulless, godless pistols designed for killing things up.
HK over engineers and can be pricey...but it's all there. The expense is there.
1911s actually do require competent fitting.
Glock is literally the vaporwave of handgunnery. Droning, empty, bereft of any essence but infectious. It gives you what you need. An eerie sense of peace and reliability. Like stumbling upon proof that we live in a godless void and everything is meaningless but in a comforting way, like...there's no mystery. A bright sunshine day during a cold spell.
To try to pimp out such harsh and clear truth is just an insult to everyone's intelligence and I vociferously oppose such garish and tacky modifications.
Plus instagram is twitter for illiterate people
As one of the universal truths to be found on this site, I feel like this needed to be quoted again. :D
Perhaps some folks see a difference, perhaps it's mostly perceived.
IMHO, for the $$ some folks drop on these things (or even, dare I say the 1911 crowd), it had damn well better do something REAL special. But at the end of the day,the old 80/20 price vs performance rule dictates that "bullets still kill motherf***ers" the same as if they come out of a $425 Glock or $2300 Glock.
People are free to spend their money as they see fit, so long as they are feeding their kids and not protesting #Trump2016 speeches.
Being an unrepentant gLoCk hater, who won't spend $400 on one, $2,300?
Oh HELL NO!
Yeah this thread has a weird hater vibe going on, kinda seems like a bitch fest about how people spend their money. Who cares? I have a glock with some work done that I have probably $1500 into (including a $500 optic) that some people would think I'm crazy for doing. Oh well. I like the damn thing and it works for me way better than stock. The great thing is, it will probably outlast me, so I see it as a solid investment.
As far as putting that much money into a glock instead of something else...what else would I get? M&P? Poor ergonomics for me and no G19 size gun. VP9? Great ergos but no G19 equivalent and weird mag release that I don't like in the least. The P320 also has weird sizing vs the Glock lineup - just a bit too big for their round capacity, and a super high bore axis. The only non striker pistol I really like is a 1911, and that's apparently a whole 'nother level of cost for what I'd really want.
So, that being said, I started with a G19 and had a deltapoint pro milled on to it, along with front cocking serrations and a cerakote finish. Now it is exactly what I want. The mortgage is still paid and the lights are still on, and I've got a gun that I believe yes, I will get $1000 more use and enjoyment out of over the next however many years I have it.
I think the "hate" comes from the fact that most people here are performance based. I can appreciate good machine work, but I'm more interested in what you can do, not what you bought.
It's like the Harley riders who think they are hard - asses because they bought a harley. No, it means you bought a harley. Just because T-bone is a hard ass and bought one, doesn't make you a hard ass.
Buying a salient doesn't make you a master class shooter. Some people think it does.
I will never understand it.
I wear a $15 Timex Ironman, so I'm likely not the intended demographic for this kinda thing. But I agree with the other members saying that a $500 pistol + $2000 in ammo and training is a better investment than a $2500 pistol and no training.
I wear a Rolex and I think a 2300$ Glock is about as dumb as it gets.
I think the target market is some one who does not know enough about guns to know how dumb it is, it is for people who don't understand the lack of value and additional function.
I have stippled/modded some of my Glock frames, it was fun, but NEVER something I'd pay for.
If you want a high end custom pistol get a 1911, they are great for that, and mediocre to use. A Glock makes a crappy custom gun, but an excellent daily use gun.
People still buy Ferraris even though a Corvette will put up the same numbers for a fraction of the cost. So what?
I send my Glocks to Boresight Solutions in Miami. I get a grip reduction package combined with texturing. I'll also swap out the magazine release and slide catch for the Vickers parts, and usually put Trijicon HD's on them. I'll also swap the barrel for a Wilson or a Bar-Sto(if I can get a good deal on it). Why?
1) The pistol fits better in my hands. I don't have the biggest hands around. My grip improves on the gun when I can get it all under control.
2) The barrel? By the time I sell the barrel I took out of the gun on Ebay, it costs me between $25 and $50 to upgrade.
3) Texture? I carry these guns on duty. Sometimes it's wet and slippery. Having the grip textured makes it stick in my hand that much more.
I train regularly and shoot between 10-12 thousand rounds a year. I've found that a more comfortable gun helps when shooting 1800 rounds over three days in a Viking Tactics pistol course.
That's what makes the modifications worth it to me. Your opinion may vary.
I think this comes under the usual issues of perceived value and diminishing returns on $ spent. People can't understand why one pays 4K for an AR when a Colt or BCM will do it, or pay thousands on a watch when a Timex tells time just fine, or six figures on a car when a Honda will get one from A2B easily, and so forth. I don't see the value, perceived or otherwise, of putting much into a Glock beyond perhaps sites and a few things (e.g., stippling job, etc) if I wanted to "improve" on the base gun, but that's as far as it would go. But if you got the money to waste... I mean spend, and it's not coming from your kids college fund or something, go for it.
donlapalma
03-21-16, 11:47
I think this comes under the usual issues of perceived value...
I agree Will. There are as many notions of what adds value to a product or service as there are people on this earth. I stopped trying to understand people's spending habits long ago. As some have already said in this thread, the answer may simply be "because they can". God knows my friends have looked at me weird when they found out that I have three of the same exact gun.....looking at me like a bought a $2,300 Glock or some shit!! :p So, to each their own. I'll have my vices and you'll have yours.
I agree Will. There are as many notions of what adds value to a product or service as there are people on this earth. I stopped trying to understand people's spending habits long ago. As some have already said in this thread, the answer may simply be "because they can". God knows my friends have looked at me weird when they found out that I have three of the same exact gun.....looking at me like a bought a $2,300 Glock or some shit!! :p So, to each their own. I'll have my vices and you'll have yours.
And in a free market economy where people have some disposable income due to success of their work, not run by communists, despots, and D bags who know what's best for you, people can own a gold plated diamond encrusted Glock if they want as their vice. Why? Cuz 'Murica that's F-ing why.
I think anyone who puts $2.3k into a Glock is insane, but I'll damn sure support your Right (capital R) to do so.
I wear a Rolex and I think a 2300$ Glock is about as dumb as it gets.
I think the target market is some one who does not know enough about guns to know how dumb it is, it is for people who don't understand the lack of value and additional function.
I have stippled/modded some of my Glock frames, it was fun, but NEVER something I'd pay for.
If you want a high end custom pistol get a 1911, they are great for that, and mediocre to use. A Glock makes a crappy custom gun, but an excellent daily use gun.
With all due respect, the only salient I've e er seen was in the hands of Kyle Lamb. (YouTube)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With all due respect, the only salient I've e er seen was in the hands of Kyle Lamb. (YouTube)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've taken a number of classes with him, and seen the gun. He didn't pay for it, I think salient guns are silly, but wouldn't turn down a free one. He asked them for a more combat ready version, so its actually a little simpler of a gun. He makes no effort to sell the salient guns in class, he's actually really quiet about it. Last class I was at he mentioned in conversation with a couple of the guys a couple of his friends bought Salient guns that were not up to par with his, and he had some fear he was given a Ringer that was not representative of all Salient guns. Lastly he had a Salient M&P, which has much much more room for improvement in the trigger than a Glock.
One of those same classses had a student with a full boat Salient Glock, it chocked constantly, he tried all different ammo. He let me shoot it, I did not enjoy the recoil impulse and did not think it shot better than my Glock with a minus connector and Vickers controls, accuracy did not impress me.
My main issue, and why I say build of a 1911 for a cool custom pistol, is at the end of the day it is still a 500$ plastic frame gun. I think you'd have a much nicer toy (thats what these things are) putting 1800$ into a 1000$ 1911 that putting 1800$ into a 500$ Glock.
Rock on to the people who want and buy this crap, it will go great with their Noveske rifle in pictures on their instagram account. Its just as some one who likes and buys really nice things, these are lost on me.
Again others should do as they wish in my mind, I'm all for freedom of choice. But in a discussion about the value of these guns I will certainly take and maintain even as a 'custom' gun these lack value.
I've taken a number of classes with him, and seen the gun. He didn't pay for it, I think salient guns are silly, but wouldn't turn down a free one. He asked them for a more combat ready version, so its actually a little simpler of a gun. He makes no effort to sell the salient guns in class, he's actually really quiet about it. Last class I was at he mentioned in conversation with a couple of the guys a couple of his friends bought Salient guns that were not up to par with his, and he had some fear he was given a Ringer that was not representative of all Salient guns. Lastly he had a Salient M&P, which has much much more room for improvement in the trigger than a Glock.
One of those same classses had a student with a full boat Salient Glock, it chocked constantly, he tried all different ammo. He let me shoot it, I did not enjoy the recoil impulse and did not think it shot better than my Glock with a minus connector and Vickers controls, accuracy did not impress me.
My main issue, and why I say build of a 1911 for a cool custom pistol, is at the end of the day it is still a 500$ plastic frame gun. I think you'd have a much nicer toy (thats what these things are) putting 1800$ into a 1000$ 1911 that putting 1800$ into a 500$ Glock.
Rock on to the people who want and buy this crap, it will go great with their Noveske rifle in pictures on their instagram account. Its just as some one who likes and buys really nice things, these are lost on me.
Again others should do as they wish in my mind, I'm all for freedom of choice. But in a discussion about the value of these guns I will certainly take and maintain even as a 'custom' gun these lack value.
Yeah I don't disagree with that. I was mainly just addressing the broad brush we often use to paint people with. Don't have to be "operator" to know the guy has unimpeachable cred.
I watched the video again, and you're right...it was an M&P. I prob should have known that since they are the base for his V-Tac.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ramairthree
03-22-16, 08:44
I look at plus 2k Glocks the same way I look at guys who put over 20k into their fox body Mustangs.
It really goes fast in the quarter,
But it is still a fox body Mustang.
Spend 20k improving a new 5.0 Mustang,
Or a 69,
I can see.
I can't add to the overall why people go this way, but I just finished a TAPS course with Mac and the there were some common themes I noted: everyone rocked a glock with several of them being the pimped out versions mentioned previously, some with RDS. Mac even had a couple that were done up (and a sweet 1911). Rifles seemed to be a lot of BCM, LMT, and a few others. Everyone's transport seemed pretty basic, so people were making the choice to spend their hard earned money on these things. However, it seemed those that were running them weren't, "head and shoulder shooters", above the herd.
My main issue, and why I say build of a 1911 for a cool custom pistol, is at the end of the day it is still a 500$ plastic frame gun. I think you'd have a much nicer toy (thats what these things are) putting 1800$ into a 1000$ 1911 that putting 1800$ into a 500$ Glock.
Rock on to the people who want and buy this crap, it will go great with their Noveske rifle in pictures on their instagram account. Its just as some one who likes and buys really nice things, these are lost on me.
Again others should do as they wish in my mind, I'm all for freedom of choice. But in a discussion about the value of these guns I will certainly take and maintain even as a 'custom' gun these lack value.
Agreed. I am not a smart man, but I can be persuaded to spend money in just about anything if you can show me that it makes a difference in performance/longevity, etc. I am not sure an additional $1K is going to make much of a difference, to me at least.
As for value, value is what the buyer determines. If someone thinks it's worth it, they'll pay for it. I agree that, to me, these Glocks aren't worth the value placed on them by others.
Do I want an Agency Arms Glock? Hell yes. Will I pay for one? Eh probably not. However If I had cash to burn then why not?
Let's compare apples to apples. How many here use a stock colt 6920 with only an Aimpoint PRO (stock mount)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TheChunkNorris
03-22-16, 10:44
Let's compare apples to apples. How many here use a stock colt 6920 with only an Aimpoint PRO (stock mount)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How is that comparing apples to apples.
brickboy240
03-22-16, 11:00
I dunno.
People blow 3-4 grand on a 1911 range toy.
People blow 10-20 grand on Rolexes.
People blow 80 grand on Bimmers and Benzes.
Knowing that....does blowing 2300 on a Glock seem THAT crazy?
It is your money...blow it as you see fit. LOL
How is that comparing apples to apples.
I think he's pointing out that we (this community) rarely shoot ARs without mods and upgrades.
TheChunkNorris
03-22-16, 11:25
I think he's pointing out that we (this community) rarely shoot ARs without mods and upgrades.
Most of the arguments here are not apples to apples though. Example, some people that have posted are using a Rolex and other higher end stuff as an example. I even saw someone say they that's why they bought an Audi and not a VW... they do the same thing. Glock isn't a high end pistol period so using the Rolex as an example is absurd. It's more like bedazzling an Invicta.
QuickStrike
03-22-16, 11:38
Let's compare apples to apples. How many here use a stock colt 6920 with only an Aimpoint PRO (stock mount)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
apples to bowling balls. :p
brickboy240
03-22-16, 11:46
If the Aimpoint stock mount on the PRO was not so flimsy...I would have left it on my fairly stock 6920. It gets the job done as does the out of the box Glock. Both would get me though a basic gun class. (the LaRue mount is way better...but it was not cheap)
Why are people so surprised that some gun people are into looks over function? This is fairly normal in many other hobbies/areas/pursuits.
If someone wants to spend 2300 on a Glock...I say let them. Like many here, I think it adds little value but in the end...it is their money.
TheChunkNorris
03-22-16, 11:48
If the Aimpoint stock mount on the PRO was not so flimsy...I would have left it on my fairly stock 6920. It gets the job done as does the out of the box Glock. Both would get me though a basic gun class.
Why are people so surprised that some gun people are into looks over function? This is fairly normal in many other hobbies/areas/pursuits.
If someone wants to spend 2300 on a Glock...I say let them. Like many here, I think it adds little value but in the end...it is their money.
Agree 100% but call it what it is.
Agree 100% but call it what it is.
Putting heals, a wig, and lipstick on a pig?
Let's compare apples to apples. How many here use a stock colt 6920 with only an Aimpoint PRO (stock mount)?
Would you recommend putting $2.3k into a 6920 or if that's the budget, simply purchasing brands/models on another level from the 6920?
Most of the arguments here are not apples to apples though. Example, some people that have posted are using a Rolex and other higher end stuff as an example. I even saw someone say they that's why they bought an Audi and not a VW... they do the same thing. Glock isn't a high end pistol period so using the Rolex as an example is absurd. It's more like bedazzling an Invicta.
Invictas come "pre-bedazzled"
:)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TheChunkNorris
03-22-16, 12:05
Putting heals, a wig, and lipstick on a pig?
Adding a fully built engine, giant turbo, Race seats/cage, Lexan panels, 4/2 piston Brembos, Moton suspension... on a Honda Civic. It's still an econobox.
Would you recommend putting $2.3k into a 6920 or if that's the budget, simply purchasing brands/models on another level from the 6920?
Sticking strictly to the Glock, but the Colt analogy would work, I would keep it, buy a couple, ammo, training. And still have $ left over.
Adding a fully built engine, giant turbo, Race seats/cage, Lexan panels, 4/2 piston Brembos, Moton suspension... on a Honda Civic. It's still an econobox.
Nope, that is called a sleeper.
Different aspect - those mods make the Honda much better for the owner's intended purpose.
One would hope that the owner (of both the Honda and a pimped weapon) understands they aren't going to get out of it what they put in it.
At the end of the day, fat lady, skinny lady, it is what rocks the buyer's boat, not mine.
brickboy240
03-22-16, 12:22
So only Vettes and Ferarris should get modded out?
Bummer...that kind of mentality would kill many businesses.
LOL
Yeah, I don't want the modded ricer either but again...to each his own.
TheChunkNorris
03-22-16, 12:31
Nope, that is called a sleeper.
Different aspect - those mods make the Honda much better for the owner's intended purpose.
Race seats, cage and panels do not make it a "Sleeper" and the car would still go from point A to point B. Sleeper would be a otherwise stock looking car that is probably faster than anything on the road.
Adding all the tact-cool parts available on a Glock will not make it shoot laser beams... it will shoot bullets just like you did if you didn't add all the cool stuffs. You're still going to have a Glock at the end of the day. With the exception of sights and maybe a trigger mod, there's no logical explanation to mod a gun made to appease the masses cheaply. Unless you want to be a special snowflake of course.
Race seats, cage and panels do not make it a "Sleeper" and the car would still go from point A to point B. Sleeper would be a otherwise stock looking car that is probably faster than anything on the road.
Chunk you are the one that posted - adding a fully built engine, giant turbo - the cage stiffens the thing up, the only thing you didn't mention was suspension mods - what you described was an SCCA solo racer or a street rod.
Yeah, leave off the engine mods, putting in a faux cage and Recaros, getting wheels and painting the calipers with heat resistant pint, and you have a pimped up econo box.
TheChunkNorris
03-22-16, 12:58
Chunk you are the one that posted - adding a fully built engine, giant turbo - the cage stiffens the thing up, the only thing you didn't mention was suspension mods - what you described was an SCCA solo racer or a street rod.
Yeah, leave off the engine mods, putting in a faux cage and Recaros, getting wheels and painting the calipers with heat resistant pint, and you have a pimped up econo box.
Moton is a high end suspension company and mostly for imports. I see your point but there are some good drop in barrels hence the fully built engine reference. At the end of the day... whether you put 100k or $1.00 into an Econobox... it's still an econobox. It wasn't designed to be an engineered race car and it doesn't matter how many parts you throw at it. You can put $100k into an Invicta... it's not a Rolex. You can put $100k into a Civic... it's not a GTR.
With that said, Glock is a great boringly reliable handgun and that's not a bad thing. Once you start adding all this crap and pawn it off like an engineered race gun or tactical pistol powerhouse, it's just stupid. Just say, "I like the way it looks and all the cool guys are doing it". It's going to marginally increase overall performance and introduce new breaking points but hey it's your money.
methical20
03-22-16, 13:53
I don't own and probably never will own a pistol from Salient. I feel that MY money is of better use in my 401k, kids college funds, saving for a rainy day, etc. but I am sure glad that whoever wants to buy one can. Not sure why there is so much discussion about this. It does make me sad though when people are living paycheck to paycheck and buying pistols like this. SAI is a LUXURY and I wish that people didn't sacrifice their future earnings to own guns, (buying guns or NODs on credit for example). Not everyone does this, but I do see it often enough.
I will say that I think Salient has the best stippling out there. That's a matter of opinion though.
Look, I wast making a case for a 2300 Glock, but the Colt was a little more analogous to a Glock than watches and cars. We all upgrade in some aspect; what difference does it make?
brickboy240
03-22-16, 14:37
I always think that "upgrades' should be things that make the firearm run better or increase its accuracy or handling.
Sights, triggers...that kind of stuff.
Items that make it run better or allow you to hit better with it. At 3am, when the glass breaks...who cares about a fancy finish on a slide or a gold colored fluted barrel?
Can I hit with it and is it reliable?
Those are the first two questions I always ask myself before employing a gun as my own.
YMMV...
I always think that "upgrades' should be things that make the firearm run better or increase its accuracy or handling.
Sights, triggers...that kind of stuff.
Items that make it run better or allow you to hit better with it. At 3am, when the glass breaks...who cares about a fancy finish on a slide or a gold colored fluted barrel?
Can I hit with it and is it reliable?
Those are the first two questions I always ask myself before employing a gun as my own.
YMMV...
Yup. I think that is something like the law of diminishing returns. There comes a point when the upgrades you make/$ investment ceases to yield any appreciable return. I agree with regard to a defense weapon. I concede that for competition shooters, it may be different (and because I am not one, I do not know).
Sad part is, 99% of folks who put that much bling into a gun, still can't shoot worth crap.
WickedWillis
03-22-16, 15:28
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people try to fix software problems by upgrading their hardware.
This could be the best line in the thread so far lol.
brickboy240
03-22-16, 15:47
But...but...the gold colored fluted barrel and slide serrations look sooo cool.
Really really....cooool!!
LOL
I am late to the party, but I suppose my initial question was really better served as saying, "does $2k+ really get you anything better? I agree most people buy it as a software fix to a hardware problem. Now, don't get me wrong, I have a zev trigger and I stipple my glocks. But for the money and sweat equity I put into that, does salient or agency really get you anything else that actually makes the gun inherently shoot better?
No. Sights, stipple / skate tape, done.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jeremy.tankersley
03-22-16, 19:57
For me, having customized and sold several Glocks, it's a fun thing plain and simple. Some people trick out cars, get super high end entertainment systems, fancy time pieces (Don't call it a watch).
I never thought that doing all the customization would make me a better shooter. I did it because it's a creative thing and I love guns. I love shooting them and I love pretty things.
Cost was always a factor though. I would weigh cost vs benefit to a point. The most I ever put into one was $1800 in a G20. Long slide, delta point, zev fulcrum, and comp (among other things).
It was a hoot to build and even more fun to shoot. So I sold it and started another one. And another one. And I'm ready to start another one. Because it's fun for me.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Why pay 4000, for a 1911
That's a good question. I would say the same things stated here already apply... that almost all people would be better served with a factory gun with light mods and money spent on ammo and training.
Maiden3.16
03-23-16, 11:04
For me, having customized and sold several Glocks, it's a fun thing plain and simple. Some people trick out cars, get super high end entertainment systems, fancy time pieces (Don't call it a watch).
I never thought that doing all the customization would make me a better shooter. I did it because it's a creative thing and I love guns. I love shooting them and I love pretty things.
Cost was always a factor though. I would weigh cost vs benefit to a point. The most I ever put into one was $1800 in a G20. Long slide, delta point, zev fulcrum, and comp (among other things).
It was a hoot to build and even more fun to shoot. So I sold it and started another one. And another one. And I'm ready to start another one. Because it's fun for me.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
I think this is spot on. While we use and carry handguns for self defense and worst case scenarios, they are hobby to most like any other. Nothing wrong with spending your hard earned money on a hobby you enjoy, whether thats ammo, training, sights, refinishing, etc.
shaneinhisroom
03-23-16, 16:24
I just put on my flame suit to add my 2 cents (I just received my Agency Arms 19 today actually). Here's why I bought it:
I am 28, single, got more money than common sense, and generally just like trying out the latest and greatest things. I have a good job, got a 5 figure bonus with a solid investment portfolio...and once I get married in the next couple years, I won't be able to do this kind of purchase anymore. So why not go balls out now?
Once I vet it out, I will probably to carry it, along with my other stock Glock 19, going to train alongside with my BCM's, Noveske's, and compete with it (Although it would probably quality as a limited gun, I want to compare to my stock Glock 34 comp gun). I will say though - buying a gun like this before you get the proper training, or buying this and not having enough left over to buy ammo to train, is a flat out stupid idea. This is just a bit less stupid.
I realize the gun isn't going to make me a better shooter, but I also realize that guns are not purely practical or purely performance. I actually do like the aesthetics of this, there are some supposed "performance enhancements" (that I have yet to quantify on a timer), and it is based on a very reliable platform with promises that it is not compromised. So we'll see... I got my practical value guns, and I got my fun pieces I just plain enjoy. It's no different than any other hobby.
Alright, I'm done trying to justify the $2500 I just spent :meeting:
Frankly there are many other ways to spend that money wisely, even if you could afford it. You could buy multiple glocks or other guns, ammo, training, gear, good optics, etc.
If you have the money to burn, good for you. These are probably geared for people with expendable assets (obviously). But if I had that kind of money it would be going towards suppressors and good optics instead.
The simple answer.....cause there are people out there that will pay that amount. Knowing what I know, I can honestly tell you I wouldn't spend that much, because I know how much it actually cost to build one of these wonder machines. Plus I have the ability to do it myself....:)
Exhibit A
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0020_zpssiuvwwck.jpg
With that being said though, there is nothing wrong with someone who wants to spend the money on one and I don't fault them for it. I am happy and proud that I live in a country where should I chose to do so, I can and don't have to ask permission or justify it to anyone.
TXPO
shaneinhisroom
03-24-16, 07:51
Frankly there are many other ways to spend that money wisely, even if you could afford it. You could buy multiple glocks or other guns, ammo, training, gear, good optics, etc.
If you have the money to burn, good for you. These are probably geared for people with expendable assets (obviously). But if I had that kind of money it would be going towards suppressors and good optics instead.
I'm with ya. I have high end optics on all my bolt guns and T1's on all my AR's. Every gun that should be is married with a suppressor.
If you don't have expendable assets and buy a custom gun for funsies, I question your judgement, but otherwise, it's all good.
Eurodriver
03-24-16, 08:35
I made a previous post in this thread laughing at people who do this sort of thing, but today I realized my Glock cost well over $3,000 :suicide2:
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/DSC02099_zpszzennplj.jpg
I'm not sure I have room to talk anymore.
I made a previous post in this thread laughing at people who do this sort of thing, but today I realized my Glock cost well over $3,000 :suicide2:
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/DSC02099_zpszzennplj.jpg
I'm not sure I have room to talk anymore.
You definitely don't lol.
Outlander Systems
03-24-16, 11:21
Screw a $2,300 Glock...
I want that radio!
The simple answer.....cause there are people out there that will pay that amount. Knowing what I know, I can honestly tell you I wouldn't spend that much, because I know how much it actually cost to build one of these wonder machines. Plus I have the ability to do it myself....:)
Exhibit A
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0020_zpssiuvwwck.jpg
With that being said though, there is nothing wrong with someone who wants to spend the money on one and I don't fault them for it. I am happy and proud that I live in a country where should I chose to do so, I can and don't have to ask permission or justify it to anyone.
TXPO
Mysteryman
03-24-16, 17:01
I just put on my flame suit to add my 2 cents (I just received my Agency Arms 19 today actually). Here's why I bought it:
I am 28, single, got more money than common sense, and generally just like trying out the latest and greatest things. I have a good job, got a 5 figure bonus with a solid investment portfolio...and once I get married in the next couple years, I won't be able to do this kind of purchase anymore. So why not go balls out now?
Once I vet it out, I will probably to carry it, along with my other stock Glock 19, going to train alongside with my BCM's, Noveske's, and compete with it (Although it would probably quality as a limited gun, I want to compare to my stock Glock 34 comp gun). I will say though - buying a gun like this before you get the proper training, or buying this and not having enough left over to buy ammo to train, is a flat out stupid idea. This is just a bit less stupid.
I realize the gun isn't going to make me a better shooter, but I also realize that guns are not purely practical or purely performance. I actually do like the aesthetics of this, there are some supposed "performance enhancements" (that I have yet to quantify on a timer), and it is based on a very reliable platform with promises that it is not compromised. So we'll see... I got my practical value guns, and I got my fun pieces I just plain enjoy. It's no different than any other hobby.
Alright, I'm done trying to justify the $2500 I just spent :meeting:
A fair explanation, but I have a couple questions. Why would your spending habits change(completely) after being married? Just a thought, but if that is a concern than pick a better wife to be. Regardless, if your spending habits change after marriage, where are you going to find the money to train? Would it not be wiser to seek training now while you have the disposable income, rather than spend it on a show piece?
I made a previous post in this thread laughing at people who do this sort of thing, but today I realized my Glock cost well over $3,000 :suicide2:
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/DSC02099_zpszzennplj.jpg
I'm not sure I have room to talk anymore.
If you remove the suppressor, the light and the RMR you have a fairly stock Glock. The other accessories are not dedicated to the pistol.
MM
Eurodriver, where's the bayonet on this thing? :sarcastic:
I just put on my flame suit to add my 2 cents (I just received my Agency Arms 19 today actually). Here's why I bought it:
I am 28, single, got more money than common sense, and generally just like trying out the latest and greatest things. I have a good job, got a 5 figure bonus with a solid investment portfolio...and once I get married in the next couple years, I won't be able to do this kind of purchase anymore. So why not go balls out now?
Once I vet it out, I will probably to carry it, along with my other stock Glock 19, going to train alongside with my BCM's, Noveske's, and compete with it (Although it would probably quality as a limited gun, I want to compare to my stock Glock 34 comp gun). I will say though - buying a gun like this before you get the proper training, or buying this and not having enough left over to buy ammo to train, is a flat out stupid idea. This is just a bit less stupid.
I realize the gun isn't going to make me a better shooter, but I also realize that guns are not purely practical or purely performance. I actually do like the aesthetics of this, there are some supposed "performance enhancements" (that I have yet to quantify on a timer), and it is based on a very reliable platform with promises that it is not compromised. So we'll see... I got my practical value guns, and I got my fun pieces I just plain enjoy. It's no different than any other hobby.
Alright, I'm done trying to justify the $2500 I just spent :meeting:
To be young and single again. I'd pay A LOT for that.
I have some advice that you did not ask for: resist the temptation to sell your guns; since you have high cash flow, buy a few Glocks and other nice pistols from HK, Walther, etc. and put these up, and don't forget magazines.
MountainRaven
03-24-16, 21:24
If you remove the suppressor, the light and the RMR you have a fairly stock Glock. The other accessories are not dedicated to the pistol.
MM
Stippled frame with grooves knocked down, slide machined to accept an RMR.
That's not "fairly stock" (although if it were a G19 MOS, it would be closer), that's three-quarters (ETA: after doing the research below, it's more like 95%) of the way to an Agency/ZEV/Salient. The only thing missing is a set of replacement or aftermarket fire control parts - and if those are there, there is very little difference in terms of the extent of the modifications made to this pistol as compared to a ZEV or a Salient.
Looking at my G19 - which looks basically stock and has no modifications made to slide or frame:
$500 - G19 Gen3
$270 - SureFire XC-1 light
$240 - ZEV barrel
$160 - Glocktriggers (Haley) Skimmer
$90 - Wilson Combat (Vickers) Battlesight (FO front, plain rear)
$50 - TangoDown (Vickers) Glock mag release, slide stop, grip plug tool
$25 - Gripforce Adaptor
That's right at/about $1300. That doesn't include shipping on the sights, barrel, trigger, or TD/Vickers parts, things like Loc-Tite, or holsters (which are pretty specific as to gun/light combinations). To have forward cocking serrations added by ATEi - which necessitates having the slide refinished - is going to run close to $250 (and it's more expensive for them to machine for an RMR than to machine forward cocking serrations) and another $210 for stippling.
That puts us just south of $1800 (still sans shipping) for a lightly tuned up Glock.
Agency Arms charges $1400 for their basic Glock package. Add a $500 Glock to that and you're at $1900. You don't have the barrel or the light, but you're up slide-top cocking serrations and a place to mount an RMR.
Would I rather have the $1800 Glock that's been lightly tuned in virtually every aspect? Probably. But you can't knock someone whose Glock cost them just a couple hundred dollars more than that. (Can't knock someone with a factory Glock with just sights and maybe some Vickers parts, either.)
$550 - Glock 19
$400 - Reputable Handgun Course
$1,350 - Ammunition
Reasonable proficiency with a handgun.
teutonicpolymer
03-24-16, 23:44
Glock - $500-$600 depending on model
KKM Barrel if you want it - $165
Minus connector if it doesn't have it - $15
Grip plug - $5
Sights - $100
Grip tape - $10
That is a lot less than $2300
skimbleshanks
03-25-16, 01:25
I'm guessing it's the same people that need 10+ ar15s all set up fractionally different. A Glock is a solid pistol. I don't like them but see why people do. They are reliable and reasonably priced. However each one looks the same as the last one the factory pooped out and everybody needs to be special. I will say I am a sucker for a good trigger but in my opinion a Jewell or Geissele is money well spent. In short most is snake oil.
This subject...and you can substitute whatever object you like...really does come down to what is at the heart of being an American. I've read this over a couple times, and respected members have differing, if not CHANGING opinions...in the same thread.
I bring up the American aspect, after watching an episode of 30 for 30 about Vlade Divac. At one point he's describing his first time in the US, and he wanted some chocolate. So, he goes to a store and asks for chocolate. The shopkeeper asks him "which one?". Dark?, white?, with caramel?, with nuts? German?, Swiss?....it went on and on. He said "I don't know, where I'm from there's only one. One chocolate. You go into the store and buy the fvcking chocolate. That's it."
That's paraphrased, but my point being this...
At least we aren't all sitting around eating the same fvcking chocolate.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why spend $2300 on a 1911 when I can buy a Rock Island Armory for $400?
This. Or a Noveske when a 6920 would do the same thing.
Why do people care? Just rock out with what you've got, no worries either way.
Oh, and because it's my $. When yall buy me a gun, you can have your input, but when the money's coming out of my account...me makey the choices.
Also, guys that scoff at 'fancy' rifles, pistols, etc. often have dozens of guns in their safe. Of which they can shoot one at a time. I personally would rather have a couple guns setup the way I want (good optics, suppressor, etc) with what I want, as opposed to having my money spread across a bunch of shit that collects dust in the safe.
No right answer, just my $0.02
ETA: I fall into the "idiots who spend a lot on a their Glock" category
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8659/16505863740_d92c8cdd5f_b.jpg
Mysteryman
03-25-16, 17:57
Stippled frame with grooves knocked down, slide machined to accept an RMR.
That's not "fairly stock" (although if it were a G19 MOS, it would be closer), that's three-quarters (ETA: after doing the research below, it's more like 95%) of the way to an Agency/ZEV/Salient. The only thing missing is a set of replacement or aftermarket fire control parts - and if those are there, there is very little difference in terms of the extent of the modifications made to this pistol as compared to a ZEV or a Salient.
Looking at my G19 - which looks basically stock and has no modifications made to slide or frame:
$500 - G19 Gen3
$270 - SureFire XC-1 light
$240 - ZEV barrel
$160 - Glocktriggers (Haley) Skimmer
$90 - Wilson Combat (Vickers) Battlesight (FO front, plain rear)
$50 - TangoDown (Vickers) Glock mag release, slide stop, grip plug tool
$25 - Gripforce Adaptor
That's right at/about $1300. That doesn't include shipping on the sights, barrel, trigger, or TD/Vickers parts, things like Loc-Tite, or holsters (which are pretty specific as to gun/light combinations). To have forward cocking serrations added by ATEi - which necessitates having the slide refinished - is going to run close to $250 (and it's more expensive for them to machine for an RMR than to machine forward cocking serrations) and another $210 for stippling.
That puts us just south of $1800 (still sans shipping) for a lightly tuned up Glock.
Agency Arms charges $1400 for their basic Glock package. Add a $500 Glock to that and you're at $1900. You don't have the barrel or the light, but you're up slide-top cocking serrations and a place to mount an RMR.
Would I rather have the $1800 Glock that's been lightly tuned in virtually every aspect? Probably. But you can't knock someone whose Glock cost them just a couple hundred dollars more than that. (Can't knock someone with a factory Glock with just sights and maybe some Vickers parts, either.)
I wouldn't say that is lightly tuned. The barrel and trigger fads are in my experience nothing but a waste of money. However with what you have listed as a comparison to a Salient Arms offering then yes, the difference between parting it out and buying a complete package is minimal. What you do get by parting it out is the option to build/buy and modify at your leisure.
$550 - Glock 19
$400 - Reputable Handgun Course
$1,350 - Ammunition
Reasonable proficiency with a handgun.
This makes far more sense than high dollar aftermarket parts that are neither necessary nor beneficial to performance.
This subject...and you can substitute whatever object you like...really does come down to what is at the heart of being an American. I've read this over a couple times, and respected members have differing, if not CHANGING opinions...in the same thread.
I bring up the American aspect, after watching an episode of 30 for 30 about Vlade Divac. At one point he's describing his first time in the US, and he wanted some chocolate. So, he goes to a store and asks for chocolate. The shopkeeper asks him "which one?". Dark?, white?, with caramel?, with nuts? German?, Swiss?....it went on and on. He said "I don't know, where I'm from there's only one. One chocolate. You go into the store and buy the fvcking chocolate. That's it."
That's paraphrased, but my point being this...
At least we aren't all sitting around eating the same fvcking chocolate.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Having a selection of items be it chocolate, firearms, clothing etc is not an "American" thing. Most nations and all of the those with viable economies are ripe with options for all goods.
This. Or a Noveske when a 6920 would do the same thing.
Why do people care? Just rock out with what you've got, no worries either way.
Oh, and because it's my $. When yall buy me a gun, you can have your input, but when the money's coming out of my account...me makey the choices.
I don't think it has anything to do with people caring what others spend their money on. It has more to do with the logic or lack thereof when someone willingly spends insane money on a pistol in an attempt to improve performance or reliability when copious amounts of ammo and relevant professional training are better investments.
Also, guys that scoff at 'fancy' rifles, pistols, etc. often have dozens of guns in their safe. Of which they can shoot one at a time. I personally would rather have a couple guns setup the way I want (good optics, suppressor, etc) with what I want, as opposed to having my money spread across a bunch of shit that collects dust in the safe.
No right answer, just my $0.02
ETA: I fall into the "idiots who spend a lot on a their Glock" category
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8659/16505863740_d92c8cdd5f_b.jpg
Nothing wrong with buying quality gear and investing in a few pieces over a pile of mediocre ones.
MM
MountainRaven
03-25-16, 20:44
$550 - Glock 19
$400 - Reputable Handgun Course
$1,350 - Ammunition
Reasonable proficiency with a handgun.
And then you get to go all bad ass Zen master when your sights break off! :P
I wouldn't say that is lightly tuned. The barrel and trigger fads are in my experience nothing but a waste of money. However with what you have listed as a comparison to a Salient Arms offering then yes, the difference between parting it out and buying a complete package is minimal. What you do get by parting it out is the option to build/buy and modify at your leisure.
What would you call it, if not lightly tuned? It's not a space gun like an Agency or a race gun like a ZEV. It's just, IMHO, a well-refined take on a Glock 19 as a fighting pistol: Everything has been changed a little bit, but nothing has been changed drastically. Like a WRX to an Impreza, a Charger R/T to a Charger SE, or an AMG to a regular production Merc. (With the Agency/ZEV/Salient being a WRX STi, Charger SRT Hellcat, or AMG Black. I may have gotten sucked into the car comparison a little bit too much.)
NewWaveGuy
03-26-16, 01:38
Because people are crazy.
I don't mind dumping as much money as it takes for my rifle to be lightweight, accurate, and handy.
But a Glock? No. Glocks weren't meant to be ornate. They are soulless, godless pistols designed for killing things up.
HK over engineers and can be pricey...but it's all there. The expense is there.
1911s actually do require competent fitting.
Glock is literally the vaporwave of handgunnery. Droning, empty, bereft of any essence but infectious. It gives you what you need. An eerie sense of peace and reliability. Like stumbling upon proof that we live in a godless void and everything is meaningless but in a comforting way, like...there's no mystery. A bright sunshine day during a cold spell.
To try to pimp out such harsh and clear truth is just an insult to everyone's intelligence and I vociferously oppose such garish and tacky modifications.
/thread
.
Having a selection of items be it chocolate, firearms, clothing etc is not an "American" thing. Most nations and all of the those with viable economies are ripe with options for all goods.
MM
It was a metaphor used in an attempt to explain that we as Americans have many choices. It was not a commentary on the overall availability of chocolate to the global market.
But then, you knew what I meant...
I find it ironic to see this thread in a close proximity to another Glock thread where people loudly wish for OEM no groove frames with smaller humps and better surface treatments than Gen3 Glocks come with...
Mysteryman
03-26-16, 15:02
And then you get to go all bad ass Zen master when your sights break off! :P
What would you call it, if not lightly tuned? It's not a space gun like an Agency or a race gun like a ZEV. It's just, IMHO, a well-refined take on a Glock 19 as a fighting pistol: Everything has been changed a little bit, but nothing has been changed drastically. Like a WRX to an Impreza, a Charger R/T to a Charger SE, or an AMG to a regular production Merc. (With the Agency/ZEV/Salient being a WRX STi, Charger SRT Hellcat, or AMG Black. I may have gotten sucked into the car comparison a little bit too much.)
I would say it is highly tuned. If you're changing near everything on the gun then it's not lightly modified. Adding a grip force adaptor and some sights is lightly modified.
It was a metaphor used in an attempt to explain that we as Americans have many choices. It was not a commentary on the overall availability of chocolate to the global market.
But then, you knew what I meant...
You're right, I caught your metaphor. Although like the selection of chocolate that's available, aftermarket bits for pistols are no different. Both are purely a personal choice as chocolate is chocolate. One is not tangibly better than another.
MM
I would say it is highly tuned. If you're changing near everything on the gun then it's not lightly modified. Adding a grip force adaptor and some sights is lightly modified.
You're right, I caught your metaphor. Although like the selection of chocolate that's available, aftermarket bits for pistols are no different. Both are purely a personal choice as chocolate is chocolate. One is not tangibly better than another.
MM
Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. While I'm all for people spending their money how they want, and on things they feel will improve their pistol/rifle/whatever, I believe there are a near infinite number of pistols better suited to heavy modification than a glock. Bbl, trigger, sights, you should be done in my opinion.
But to each their own.
Not anti glock...while I don't tend to shoot them well, they are in fact fantastic guns.
Because it's there. - Sir Edmund Hillary
I don't think it has anything to do with people caring what others spend their money on. It has more to do with the logic or lack thereof when someone willingly spends insane money on a pistol in an attempt to improve performance or reliability when copious amounts of ammo and relevant professional training are better investments.
MM
I dig it, but what if someone can invest in both? And for me the grip work and RDS really helped in their respective areas. Now yeah, I don't get the point on slide cuts and battleworn finishes, but again - not my money. So who am I to tell someone how to spend it based on my 'logic'?
Logic is relative, and so is everyone's opinion on this. Who gives a shit what someone spends on it, if they can shoot it well and safely (and they're not a tool in general) I don't give it a second thought.
I dig it, but what if someone can invest in both? And for me the grip work and RDS really helped in their respective areas. Now yeah, I don't get the point on slide cuts and battleworn finishes, but again - not my money. So who am I to tell someone how to spend it based on my 'logic'?
Logic is relative, and so is everyone's opinion on this. Who gives a shit what someone spends on it, if they can shoot it well and safely (and they're not a tool in general) I don't give it a second thought.
An excellent point. I certainly don't own any $2K Glocks, but goodness knows I spend a heckuva lot of money on stuff (firearms-related and otherwise) that serves no useful purpose other than giving me a bit of pleasure.
Those who have joined the "because they're stupid" chorus might want to take a long, honest look in the mirror.
contax_shooter
03-28-16, 12:40
These aren't all that different as other boutique styled complete products that's been released a few years past. Anyone remember the special edition Haley Disruptive rifle from BCM or Costa Edition Larue rifle? Where was all the hate for those? Social media has certainly fostered a certain type of aesthetic on these handguns.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2013/03/11lr.jpg
MountainRaven
03-28-16, 12:50
These aren't all that different as other boutique styled complete products that's been released a few years past. Anyone remember the special edition Haley Disruptive rifle from BCM or Costa Edition Larue rifle? Where was all the hate for those? Social media has certainly fostered a certain type of aesthetic on these handguns.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2013/03/11lr.jpg
BCM still offers The Jack and considering the components and the cost of those components, it actually isn't badly priced.
The LT Costa rifles were a bit of a cluster, but... it was LT. Pretty much everything LT was doing, rifle-wise, at the time was a cluster. And, IIRC, it was priced at roughly double what a standard LT rifle was - $4500, instead of the $2000 (for a PredatAR) or $2500 (or an OBR or PredatOBR). Add limited production (over and above LT's normally limited rifle production capabilities), absurd wait times, and... yeah.
These aren't all that different as other boutique styled complete products that's been released a few years past. Anyone remember the special edition Haley Disruptive rifle from BCM or Costa Edition Larue rifle? Where was all the hate for those? Social media has certainly fostered a certain type of aesthetic on these handguns.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/files/2013/03/11lr.jpg
Bingo. For basic purposes, a 6920 with an Aimpoint Pro would suffice, but some guys elect for a Noveske or whatever with a 1-6, dbal, etc. Not sure why all the hate gets directed at tricked out handguns, when the logic follows the same for carbines.
MountainRaven
03-28-16, 13:37
Bingo. For basic purposes, a 6920 with an Aimpoint Pro would suffice, but some guys elect for a Noveske or whatever with a 1-6, dbal, etc. Not sure why all the hate gets directed at tricked out handguns, when the logic follows the same for carbines.
And you're much more likely to use a handgun to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones than any long gun.
So for basic purposes, a WASR 10, BFG AK VCAS, a box or two of Hornady SSTs, and a G2X would work. (White light > reflex sight. :p)
If you're spending $3000 on a carbine and a handgun, you're better off spending $2000 on the handgun and $1000 on the carbine than $2000 on the carbine and $1000 on the handgun (even though most people do it the latter way rather than the former).
Why do people that have no intention of owning a suppressor put a threaded barrel on a G19? Because they don't want anyone at the counter to have a bigger dick than they do. Is it not more thrilling to have a $500 AR that you can outshoot a guy with 2K in his? I am a very value conscious person. The less I can spend, the better. The less I can spend and the closer it performs and or outperforms higher dollar equipment, even better.
Saying that, I certainly don't own a Hi-Point. I have a Glock. stock as can be and I'll upgrade as needed I'm sure, but in its most simple, pure form, it has proven reliable. Why alter?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.