View Full Version : Army chief of staff really wants Glocks and the authority to purchase them
BREAKING: Army Chief Seeks Purchase of Glock Handguns Instead of MHS, but Is There an Alternative?
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Posted 12 hours ago in Companies, Daily News, Guns & Gear, News, Other Gear & Gadgets, Pistols by Nathaniel F with 74 Comments
Tags: ***, chief of staff, general, handgun, MHS, modular handgun system, procurement, US Army
After criticizing the Army’s Modular Handgun System program last week, Army Chief of Staff Mark Milley spoke again about the program, further refining his desire to select not just any new pistol, but specifically to piggyback Army purchases of new handguns onto SOCOM procurement of the Glock 19. Via SoldierSystems.net:
Milley recently asked the Army Special Operations Command’s G-8 office, which oversees fielding of equipment, if there is room for the Army to join its pistol contract to buy Glock 19s, according to a source who asked to remain anonymous because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
The compact Model 19 is one of Glock’s most popular handguns. The striker-fired, 9mm pistol features a four- inch barrel and has a standard capacity of 15 rounds, although 17-round magazines are available. The polymer frame features an accessory rail for mounting lights.
New Glock 19s retail for $500-$600 each. USASOC is currently paying a base price of about $320 for each Glock 19, the source said.
With that price, the Army would pay about $91.8 million if the service were to buy 287,000 pistols, the quantity requirement outlined in the MHS effort.
people a couple steps above him could delegate that authority. IIRC that's ultimately vested in OSA. politically there's not a chance in hell it will happen. too much momentum in accommodating women in all MOSs with compatible equipment.
If it did go through there are a few firearms companies that are going to cry foul considering they have already submitted their prototypes.
If it did go through there are a few firearms companies that are going to cry foul considering they have already submitted their prototypes.
+1, expect multiple lawsuits. I expect GD is already on the phone with their lobbyists to nip this in the bud.
Going to Glock 19s, almost makes me wanna re-up.
+1, expect multiple lawsuits. I expect GD is already on the phone with their lobbyists to nip this in the bud.
If the program is technically achievable in budget there would be tee total hell to pay with cancellation
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Going to Glock 19s, almost makes me wanna re-up.
Almost.....
After criticizing the Army’s Modular Handgun System program last week, Army Chief of Staff Mark Milley spoke again about the program, further refining his desire to select not just any new pistol, but specifically to piggyback Army purchases of new handguns onto SOCOM procurement of the Glock 19.
This.
There's got to be a way to have SOCOM rotate "used" G19's to Big Army.
Okie John
If it did go through there are a few firearms companies that are going to cry foul considering they have already submitted their prototypes.
With all the "bribes" being paid out, I guess they would.
SomeOtherGuy
03-22-16, 17:16
people a couple steps above him could delegate that authority. IIRC that's ultimately vested in OSA. politically there's not a chance in hell it will happen. too much momentum in accommodating women in all MOSs with compatible equipment.
The Glock 19 gen3 works for most people, and the gen4 with the changeable backstraps should work for almost anyone. Wouldn't that be positive for accommodating women with equipment? I may be missing something not being in the Army or familiar with its procurement hell.
The Glock 19 gen3 works for most people, and the gen4 with the changeable backstraps should work for almost anyone. Wouldn't that be positive for accommodating women with equipment? I may be missing something not being in the Army or familiar with its procurement hell.
It's not so much the Army as it is DoD.
Okie John
I'd be surprised if the Army ever adopts a handgun without a true manual safety on it.
arbninftry
03-22-16, 18:17
I'd be surprised if the Army ever adopts a handgun without a true manual safety on it.
If the new handgun does not have a safety, you will see the regular non SOF types get Isreali type training, where they charge on the draw. I would bet, that some idiot will think this is the answer. To many soldiers still do not get enough weapons training. I saw a transportation unit from FT. Bliss TX deploy with no handgun training and minimal rifle training. The CoC insisted they were just drivers. These were the same people closing bases in Afghanistan in 2014. Also, the same unit as Jessica Lynch from 2003.
Almost.....
Exactly what I was about to post
Almost.......
I'll eat my own hat the day that the DoD approves a department wide handgun with no manual safety on it.
It's not so much the Army as it is DoD.
Okie John
Not even DoD, its GSA.
If the General can organize a group by I'll jump on board at $320 for a Gen3 19. Let all active duty and veterans jump on for one pistol. Great PR, larger order for lower price per unit!
The Glock 19 gen3 works for most people, and the gen4 with the changeable backstraps should work for almost anyone. Wouldn't that be positive for accommodating women with equipment? I may be missing something not being in the Army or familiar with its procurement hell.
I'm not familiar with how the 5-95 testing is done on weapons but on aircraft they get representatives who fit each category of user, dress them up in their most burdensome and restrictive equipment and have them go through every normal and emergency procedure on the ground. They've got criteria for excessive and difficult movement, time limits and such.
One of the things they look at before deciding to start a development program is whether a cots solution will meet the requirements. There are several regs that encourage cots solutions when they do the job.
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This.
There's got to be a way to have SOCOM rotate "used" G19's to Big Army.
Okie John
The first step would for SOCOM to actually all have Glocks. They do not and will not for quite a while.
Its a pistol, it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme - the Army has WAY more important issues to deal with, but this article does highlight the stupidity of the current acquisition process.
Rick
If the General can organize a group by I'll jump on board at $320 for a Gen3 19. Let all active duty and veterans jump on for one pistol. Great PR, larger order for lower price per unit!
I do like this idea though Its a way taxpayers can help lower the cost Glocks for everybody
But big green requires service pistols to me all metal to double as a hammer for driving tent stakes and chit ;)
But big green requires service pistols to me all metal to double as a hammer for driving tent stakes and chit ;)
Me thinks you are giving our 2LTs a little too much credit... :)
Me thinks you are giving our 2LTs a little too much credit... :)
That's what E1s are for....
When I start wondering why this is not as easy as it should be I just remember that a) the military gets all sorts of equipment that it doesn't need designed by committees who have no insight, and b) the decisions are fundamentally political and economic. Then is makes sense.
But big green requires service pistols to me all metal to double as a hammer for driving tent stakes and chit
Actually they are asking for a polymer frame this time. Don't know how long they will stand up to abuse by big green.
I know polymer frames have had issues passing high temperature storage requirements in the past.
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Then Glock can ship all civvie G19's with a little tag that says "Official sidearm of the US Army". I'm sure they wouldn't mind the PR.
^^ Thats going to add $500 to the price tag.
brickboy240
03-23-16, 10:02
Just swap the fat, chunky Berettas for G17s and call it good.
Down the road...everyone will benefit from this change.
But big green requires service pistols to me all metal to double as a hammer for driving tent stakes and chit ;)
Big Army pistols are carried by...
240 gunners
Officers who are too lazy to carry a rifle on the FOB
SNCOs who are too lazy to carry a rifle on the FOB
A G19 won't look as cool sitting in those Miami Vice crossdraw holsters most TOCroaches seem to love, but I think that we as a service will somehow look past that.
But big green requires service pistols to me all metal to double as a hammer for driving tent stakes and chit
Actually they are asking for a polymer frame this time. Don't know how long they will stand up to abuse by big green.
I can see the initial intro now; "Service pistols will no longer be used to double as a hammer. Hammering chit will now be done with hammers and other approved blunt objects that will tolerate acting as a hammer" followed by broken polymer frames.
Thinking about it, I'd be most concerned about people trying to scrape the carbon with picks and various other cleaning tools. You can only gouge polymer so much before something is affected. :confused:
As has been mentioned, big Army pistol training is minimal - so they won't be carried with a round in the chamber - the way they were meant to be carried.
Auto-X Fil
03-23-16, 14:38
I have zero service time so I'm pretty ignorant, but who actually uses handguns in the military? My impression is that it's POGs toting them around base (in which case Condition 3 makes sense), and some limited use outside the wire (240 gunner mentioned above). Not knowing how regs work... is someone like that 240 gunner REALLY not permitted to roll Condition Glock when on patrol or actually heading into a known hot area?
Or, is having a handgun as a backup to their M16/M4 a critical enough part of the grunt's setup that y'all feel a C3/Israeli carry G19/17 would be worse than an M9, even balancing weight and everything else?
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