View Full Version : I hadn't heard the VA was doing this...
Averageman
03-24-16, 15:33
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/24/gop-senators-move-to-block-obamas-gun-ban-for-veterans/
In July 2015 Breitbart News reported that Obama’s gun ban against Veterans had already been administered behind the scenes for an unknown amount of time. The Los Angeles Times pointed to the example of 30-year-old U.S. Marine Steve Overman. He required help with his finances because of “weakened..memory and cognitive ability” resulting from a roadside bomb in Iraq. The “VA eventually deemed him 100% disabled and after reviewing his case in 2012 declared him incompetent, making his wife his fiduciary.” Because of this, he had to get his guns out of his house–taking them a relative’s home–in order to avoid losing them.
The Hill now reports that “more than 257,000 former members of the military” are facing a similar plight as Overman. Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee Chairman Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-GA) (R-GA) and Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) are demanding the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) halt the practice. Isakson and Grassley sent a letter to VA Secretary Robert McDonald, pointing to the way veterans are being added to the NICS prohibited purchasers list, and observing, “The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is effectively a national gun ban list and placement on the list precludes the ownership and possession of firearms.”
You know for some folks who can't seem to get the whole, "Our job is to Provide Care to Veterans" thing down, they sure know how to put some whammy out there if those same vet's want to buy a gun, or even have one in their house apparently.
You know this has just gotten to the point of being un American and outright traitorous.
Unbelievable. So, are they told that their rights are being revoked in advanced, or do they find out the hard way, and then have to go from there? Either way, it's ****ed.
Averageman
03-24-16, 15:44
Unbelievable. So, are they told that their rights are being revoked in advanced, or do they find out the hard way, and then have to go from there? Either way, it's ****ed.
I had a couple of guys I worked with who decided that they wanted to make a PTSD claim with the VA. I told them this shit was going to follow them right back home.
You want some socialism, well there you go, there's your socialism.
Before we drop the entire whammy on you, lets make sure the guys who can fight can't own any guns.
Terrible. A disgrace.
(Hoping you don't mean me when you say "You want some socialism, well there you go, there's your socialism.")...that's the last thing I want.
Are they also going to revoke his right to vote, practice his chosen religion, speak his mind or freely assemble?
And they wonder why so many who could use some help don't trust the system.
This is 100%, Rubber Sippy Cup grade bullshit.
See...and it's not new. I remember when Georgia...ya know...home of Ft. Benning, Warner Robins, Kings Bay etc wanted to put PTSD warnings on Joe's DL, and it got FOP support and I got called a communist for thinking it was total bullshit.
"Officer safety" was cited...yeah naw fvck that. Hell if the fat Sheriff treated Rambo like a human being that would've been a short, boring movie.
They are afraid of another Bonus Army.
Joe hoes over, gets some, and gets hurt then keeps getting fvcked while Shaniqua Jones on her multiple deployments to Germany or Italy will get E8 or E9 if not fricking Sergeant Major of the Army. Meanwhile guys like a buddy of mine get an E6 and a prosthetic leg and a "thank you, fvck you".
This is where it is at, this is where it will remain.
They don't want soldiers to soldier, nor police to police.
Just keep people 'in line' because 'we know best'.
It's a shame. I know a few guys who got out and have mild PTSD. Not fun, but nothing too life changing. They were urged by the VA to get checked out and rated so they could get "Paid" for it.
One of them knew better and said HELL NO! The other 2 guys said heck yeah- I need to remodel the kitchen and the guy at the VA told me my back pay would be 10's of thousands if I get rated high enough.
Its really sad what's happening. They are trying to get them all rated higher from what I've seen. And then we have those who need the help and won't even go because they know their rights can be taken from them because of it. It's sickening and wrong.
Styer hit the nail on the head. 2A is the most easily revoked right there is out there. If you want to adopt a child for instance, you can't have or carry a CCW, even if you have a permit or live in a Const Carry state.
I have a sister who works to place adopted children and she didn't understand why it is wrong to revoke this right. Until I asked if it would also be okay to not allow children to be placed with Muslims, Pagans, Zaroastrians, etc. Or if Homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Or if you were suddenly not allowed to be protected from illegal search and seizures, etc, etc, etc.
It opened her eyes to what every single right really is and should be protected equally regardless of your opinion of them. To most 2A is a second class right, even those who support it sometimes only support it for themselves; they don''t want others to be armed though.
This is 100%, Rubber Sippy Cup grade bullshit.
See...and it's not new. I remember when Georgia...ya know...home of Ft. Benning, Warner Robins, Kings Bay etc wanted to put PTSD warnings on Joe's DL, and it got FOP support and I got called a communist for thinking it was total bullshit.
"Officer safety" was cited...yeah naw fvck that. Hell if the fat Sheriff treated Rambo like a human being that would've been a short, boring movie.
They are afraid of another Bonus Army.
Joe hoes over, gets some, and gets hurt then keeps getting fvcked while Shaniqua Jones on her multiple deployments to Germany or Italy will get E8 or E9 if not fricking Sergeant Major of the Army. Meanwhile guys like a buddy of mine get an E6 and a prosthetic leg and a "thank you, fvck you".
This is where it is at, this is where it will remain.
They don't want soldiers to soldier, nor police to police.
Just keep people 'in line' because 'we know best'.
People who are afraid of a Bonus Army, deserve to have a Bonus Army on their front lawn. :mad:
I'm old enough to remember how bad a lot of Nam vets got screwed over by the system that was in place to protect them. Of course back then you didn't just lose your right to own a firearm, you could be involuntarily committed if you said the wrong things while "seeking help."
Averageman
03-24-16, 18:41
Terrible. A disgrace.
(Hoping you don't mean me when you say "You want some socialism, well there you go, there's your socialism.")...that's the last thing I want.
What I meant was if you allow the .gov to take care of your Healthcare like Obamacare perhaps? This is what you will get, this is the finest example of how Socialism works that I can think of right at this moment. Once they get their meat hooks in to your private life, it aint private anymore.
Once they get you in to a system, they can control and there is some money flowing around, then the cream is getting skimmed off the top and going to the FSA and an Army of paper pushing Administrators who will live fat on that.
They can take your rights, then prescribe enough medicine so that for the most part you're going to forget you had any rights and if you live long enough they wheel you off in to another room to die.
I have a baboon level case of the red ass against the VA. We don't have the band width for the stories.
Averageman
03-24-16, 18:48
I'm old enough to remember how bad a lot of Nam vets got screwed over by the system that was in place to protect them. Of course back then you didn't just lose your right to own a firearm, you could be involuntarily committed if you said the wrong things while "seeking help."
My Dad got a head wound in Viet Nam. For the most part his personality (and this was from My Mother and his Mother, my Grandmother) was never the same. My Folks split up around '75 and although my Dad could hold a very high level job and function well, he was for the most part very drug dependent and an alcoholic and the VA was negligent in over prescribing his Meds.
So when I was visiting him before I join the military I was looking for a towel in the linen closet and I found jar upon jar of Darvon, Percocet and Valium that were prescribed several hundred at a time.
He didn't make it to 50, but they didn't have to deal with him anymore, see how that works?
Any VA healthcare military people should be getting is THEIRS. It isn't "free shit" like welfare. They worked for it. Fought for it. They earned it.
After 20 years of infantry some guys come out 4 inches shorter and with jacked up feet and destroyed joints. That's even IF they didn't get really hurt in combat, training, etc.
It's not meant to be a social experiment or a case of "we own your ass". It's part of their contract. That they signed.
Patriotism and Old Glory aside, it's still a job.
I'd sooner see entire ghettos starve and freeze in darkest winter if it meant Joe gets competent, timely, DIGNIFIED care with no strings attached.
And you know labels are bad. Sometimes people go through hard shit where they have a few lost weekends or push people away. In time, this too shall pass. What doesn't kill people makes them stranger but also more real.
Constantly doping people up and telling them how f'ed up and incompetent they are all the time isn't curing anybody.
But there it is.
This needs to stop NOW.
It's irresponsible to make broad statements that getting PTSD treatment or rating gets you into NICS. The truth is that only people who can't handle their own finances get flagged. It's a BS interpretation of the law from the ATF, this isn't something the VA made up.
It's not new.
It's not right.
It shouldn't stop veterans from seeking treatment.
FlyingHunter
03-24-16, 19:20
This has nothing to do with the Govt.'s concern over guns, safety, etc...It's only and always about control.
Diapers and politicians should be changed frequently...for the same reasons.
This needs to stop NOW.
It's irresponsible to make broad statements that getting PTSD treatment or rating gets you into NICS. The truth is that only people who can't handle their own finances get flagged. It's a BS interpretation of the law from the ATF, this isn't something the VA made up.
It's not new.
It's not right.
It shouldn't stop veterans from seeking treatment.
For now, you are correct.
This needs to stop NOW.
It's irresponsible to make broad statements that getting PTSD treatment or rating gets you into NICS. The truth is that only people who can't handle their own finances get flagged. It's a BS interpretation of the law from the ATF, this isn't something the VA made up.
It's not new.
It's not right.
It shouldn't stop veterans from seeking treatment.
When it comes to this particular reason that a person might have to avoid the VA, you are correct - this issue is being misrepresented (to a degree). On the other hand, as someone who was treated at the VA and who later rotated through the VA as a medical student, the other 100 reasons that I have for avoiding the VA are very valid. Some of these reasons include: inappropriate prescribing narcotics and benzodiazepines, inadequate supervision of residents and medical students, poor sanitary conditions, incompetent nursing staff in wards, unreasonably long waits, and the list goes on and on.
Any VA healthcare military people should be getting is THEIRS. It isn't "free shit" like welfare. They worked for it. Fought for it. They earned it.
After 20 years of infantry some guys come out 4 inches shorter and with jacked up feet and destroyed joints. That's even IF they didn't get really hurt in combat, training, etc.
It's not meant to be a social experiment or a case of "we own your ass". It's part of their contract. That they signed.
Patriotism and Old Glory aside, it's still a job.
I'd sooner see entire ghettos starve and freeze in darkest winter if it meant Joe gets competent, timely, DIGNIFIED care with no strings attached.
And you know labels are bad. Sometimes people go through hard shit where they have a few lost weekends or push people away. In time, this too shall pass. What doesn't kill people makes them stranger but also more real.
Constantly doping people up and telling them how f'ed up and incompetent they are all the time isn't curing anybody.
But there it is.
All that and you can still consider yourself fortunate if your psychological well being isn't left in the hands of somebody like Major Nadal Hassan. I wonder how many returning vets he managed to harm before he ever shot anyone.
When it comes to this particular reason that a person might have to avoid the VA, you are correct - this issue is being misrepresented (to a degree). On the other hand, as someone who was treated at the VA and who later rotated through the VA as a medical student, the other 100 reasons that I have for avoiding the VA are very valid. Some of these reasons include: inappropriate prescribing narcotics and benzodiazepines, inadequate supervision of residents and medical students, poor sanitary conditions, incompetent nursing staff in wards, unreasonably long waits, and the list goes on and on.
This is the tip of the bureaucratic iceburg. If a person earns VA benefits due to an injury sustained in combat, they should be issued a medical card that can be used at any hospital and physicians group and the VA should be nothing more than a clearing house to pay the bills.
To strip the rights of firearm ownership from someone who put their ass on the line to protect our country and our constitution is unconscionable. Unless they pose a threat to the community or their loved ones, the issue should not even be discussed while seeking treatment from the VA.
Moose-Knuckle
03-25-16, 02:53
Marcus Flavinius, a centurion in the second cohort of the 2nd Augusta Legion serving overseas, to his cousin, Tertullus, in Rome, quoted in the Prologue of Jean Larteguy's novel, "The Centurions."
"We had been told, on leaving our native soil, that we were to defend the sacred rights conferred on us by so many of our citizens settled overseas, so many years of our presence, so many benefits brought by us to populations in need of our assistance and civilization. We were able to verify that this was true, and because it was true, we did not hesitate to shed our quota of blood, to sacrifice our youth and our hopes. We regretted nothing, but whereas we over here are inspired by their frame of mind, I am told that in Rome factions and conspiracies are rife, that treachery flourishes, and that many people in their uncertainty and confusion lend a ready ear to the dire temptations of relinquishment and vilify our action. I cannot believe that all this true, and yet recent wars have shown how pernicious such a state of mind could be and to where it could lead. Make haste to reassure me, I beg you, and tell me that our fellow citizens understand us, support us and protect us as we protect the glory of the Empire. If it should be otherwise, if we should leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the anger of the legions."
KalashniKEV
03-25-16, 11:58
This needs to stop NOW.
It's irresponsible to make broad statements that getting PTSD treatment or rating gets you into NICS. The truth is that only people who can't handle their own finances get flagged. It's a BS interpretation of the law from the ATF, this isn't something the VA made up.
It's not new.
It's not right.
It shouldn't stop veterans from seeking treatment.
I basically came here to post this.
It's amazing that on a board devoted to firearms... with a high percentage of veterans... that we have so many people here that are ignorant of the laws as they relate to firearms or VA determinations and what they mean.
You want some socialism, well there you go, there's your socialism.
You may have unintentionally made the best comment in this thread.
It's a shame. I know a few guys who got out and have mild PTSD. Not fun, but nothing too life changing. They were urged by the VA to get checked out and rated so they could get "Paid" for it.
One of them knew better and said HELL NO! The other 2 guys said heck yeah- I need to remodel the kitchen and the guy at the VA told me my back pay would be 10's of thousands if I get rated high enough.
BINGO- somebody here knows what they're talking about.
The system is working effectively.
Scenario 1: Let's give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say that his claims are 100% legit. He raises his hand and says, "My brain is so jacked from serving my country that I can't even buy groceries. Please pay me in proportion to what you did to me and put my monies in a place where my guardian can access them and spend them on me."
And so he's gonna spend that money on a WASR, some drums, and a few cases of 7.62x39 so he can get his BLAZE on? Ummmm... no.
Sounds like a good way for non-mentally-defective to become target practice.
Not everyone on earth is qualified to own a gun, and being a felon is not the only way to lose your right to own a firearm. This is the law in the United States of America, and it is good.
Scenario 2: Let's imagine that PTSD, while a real and terrible thing effecting veterans of the GWOT, is also... at the same time... a great way to run up your disability rating and get more $$,$$$ annually without having to provide an X-ray, or weigh the cost of your private doctor plus lawyer vs. VA doctor over potential payouts.
Well then congratulations, mother****er- you found the pot of gold! Go buy a sporty second car and race it on the weekend, or bank your cash and go scuba diving once a year, but don't expect all the same rights once you play the "I am completely and totally mentally defective now, pay me in proportion" card.
Lots of guys who played that angle for a few extra point$ are very worried now. They should be. I wonder how many will get cured soon?
I've known about this crap for along time. Waco has a giant VA center, and more than a few guys around here have complained about this.
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