View Full Version : Russian-Syrian-Iranian coalition recaptures Palmyra
KalashniKEV
03-28-16, 09:13
http://iswresearch.blogspot.com/2016/03/russian-syrian-iranian-coalition-seizes.html
400+ ISIS killed in the most severe bloodletting they have thus far suffered.
Their remaining fighters are cut off from Raqqah and fleeing towards Anbar.
Russia, the real Syrian Army, HaS, al Quds, and Hezbollah have driven a wedge and will now use Palmyra as a platform to project power into Iraq and shrink the caliphate.
http://el-akhbar.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/alalam-635939119753653054-25f-4x3.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03601/palmyra-jet_3601372b.jpg
This is a major, significant turning point.
http://iswresearch.blogspot.com/2016/03/russian-syrian-iranian-coalition-seizes.html
400+ ISIS killed in the most severe bloodletting they have thus far suffered.
This is a major, significant turning point.
The 1960's called and they want their MiG back. I guess, if it ain't broke.
Its interesting to see Russia taking over the ME, bringing back the good ol' days...
Pretty sure that is an Su-22 Fitter, the backwards nation's Su-25 Frogfoot stand-in.
Yes. You are right. Variable wing geometry. I missed that at first.
And America contributed.......?
And America contributed.......?
I'm sure we gave Iran a bunch of money that proved useful.
KalashniKEV
03-28-16, 16:39
And America contributed.......?
We bomb empty and abandoned villages to make it look like we're doing something.
We are still aligned with the House of Saud, Turkey, and the monarchies. They don't want an end to ISIS, they just want a transformed ISIS that won't target them but that they can rely on to provide the bodies fight Shia influence.
We bomb empty and abandoned villages to make it look like we're doing something.
We are still aligned with the House of Saud, Turkey, and the monarchies. They don't want an end to ISIS, they just want a transformed ISIS that won't target them but that they can rely on to provide the bodies fight Shia influence.
Yep. ISIS is a crisis cow. Milk it for all it's worth.
I shudder to think how much could be accomplished by now if not for sandbagging
Yes. You are right. Variable wing geometry. I missed that at first.
I'm not an A/C recognition expert, I just have screen saver slide shows of differing things - I think the SU-17/22's are just slightly less cool looking than Phantoms and Intruders.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-28-16, 19:35
http://iswresearch.blogspot.com/2016/03/russian-syrian-iranian-coalition-seizes.html
http://el-akhbar.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/alalam-635939119753653054-25f-4x3.jpg
Kev loses for being the first to bring Adolph Hitler into the thread... ;)
Can't wait until the Is-holes figure out this ain't the start of the caliphate and the end of the world. Maybe they'll start wondering about the 72 Virgins..
Can't see how Assad's dictatorship being restored is even close to as bad as an ISIS-caused collapse followed by 15 more years of civil war and refugees you must know HRC would be compelled to take, no matter how robust, youthful and hostile to Western norms.
I guess we could go to war against every side that has any power, including Russia and back the 6 guys we were able to train for half a billion dollars to make sure we're not leading from behind or something.
VooDoo6Actual
03-29-16, 07:04
It is huge news & the much of the planet is still in the flouride glazed lost look phase.
The whole Fertile Crescent is of huge geographical significance to those who are paying attention or know the planet's history regarding ancient civilization's most likely known documented orgin. Not many serious devout history or archeology members here. As usual the comments here miss the mark of what is going on. Other places are noting & aware of the geographical & historical significance of this event. Putin put out the main fire & it mostly went unnoticed. Sumerian / Babylonian / Assiarian / Hammurabi's Code (Eye for an Eye, tooth for a tooth often incorrectly taught & attributed to the King James Version of the Bible but that's a whole other topic & not many if any here care) & cultural & architectural artifacts are still preserved fortunately. Hopefully sooner or than later the big lie perpetrated on humanity gets out.
LMFAO !
The most recent photo op the most of the world missed.
The Pope kissing Muslim rufugees feet from the wars they're cohorts have perpetrated... like a desperate cry into the abyss & heavens, please save us & give us salvation from the lies we have perpetrated..
KalashniKEV
03-29-16, 08:19
Kev loses for being the first to bring Adolph Hitler into the thread... ;)
Adolph Hitler?!?
Why, that's just Muqaddim Fritz al Alemania... he looks great for his age. Gets blood transfusions every few months though, weird...
Can't see how Assad's dictatorship being restored is even close to as bad as an ISIS...
"Assad's dictatorship" is actually a pretty chill place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omMoaZu5nh8
We're not supposed to know this though, because then why would the CIA be sponsoring worldwide Jihad by training/arming/funding al Qaeda in Libya/Syria/Iraq...
The whole Fertile Crescent is of huge geographical significance to those who are paying attention or know the planet's history regarding ancient civilization's most likely known documented orgin.
...
The Pope kissing Muslim rufugees feet from the wars they're cohorts have perpetrated...
As you stated above, they are just as much yours and my "cohorts."
VooDoo6Actual
03-29-16, 09:02
Adolph Hitler?!?
Why, that's just Muqaddim Fritz al Alemania... he looks great for his age. Gets blood transfusions every few months though, weird...
"Assad's dictatorship" is actually a pretty chill place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omMoaZu5nh8
We're not supposed to know this though, because then why would the CIA be sponsoring worldwide Jihad by training/arming/funding al Qaeda in Libya/Syria/Iraq...
As you stated above, they are just as much yours and my "cohorts."
Nice to see your grasping the narrative, concepts & real issue @ hand.
Kudos to your critical thinking skill sets ability & making it to the real party event horizon.
Moose-Knuckle
03-30-16, 02:43
So did all the House of Saud troops that were staging in Turkey go home?
Can't see how Assad's dictatorship being restored is even close to as bad as an ISIS-caused collapse followed by 15 more years of civil war and refugees you must know HRC would be compelled to take, no matter how robust, youthful and hostile to Western norms.
I guess we could go to war against every side that has any power, including Russia and back the 6 guys we were able to train for half a billion dollars to make sure we're not leading from behind or something.
Would kind of being the final defining moment of the Obama Presidency, where he tried to remove a brutal dictator, created a power vacuum that was quickly filled with violent terrorists who claimed large swaths of land from Syria to Iraq, losing even land liberated by a decade of American blood, only to have it all go back to square one with Assad back in power supported by the Russians.
Basically if Obama never existed, or never intervened, the region would have never had to suffer the consequences of Obama's support. Europe would sure as hell be in a lot better shape had Obama simply done nothing.
KalashniKEV
03-30-16, 08:51
So did all the House of Saud troops that were staging in Turkey go home?
They never left the Kingdom.
The Saudis don't fight- they surrender before the fighting starts or they contract with someone else to do it for them.
In Gulf 1, they contracted with the United States- and were even willing to leave money on the dresser for the direct participants (GHWB graciously declined on our behalf).
This time they have al Qaeda to do their fighting, under the banner of Jabhat al Nusra (JaN). They even got us to pay for a good chunk of it by re-branding as "Division 21" or the "Free Syrian Army" or whatever.
Would kind of being the final defining moment of the Obama Presidency, where he tried to remove a brutal dictator, created a power vacuum that was quickly filled with violent terrorists who claimed large swaths of land from Syria to Iraq, losing even land liberated by a decade of American blood, only to have it all go back to square one with Assad back in power supported by the Russians.
Basically if Obama never existed, or never intervened, the region would have never had to suffer the consequences of Obama's support. Europe would sure as hell be in a lot better shape had Obama simply done nothing.
You have a very weak grasp on very recent history.
Do you not remember who was president when we invaded Iraq?
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-30-16, 13:53
You can't run the experiment, but what if the EU countries had been more on board with the Iraq war- either thru direct involvement, or not giving more political cover for those that opposed it. Maybe it would have made it difference, maybe it wouldn't have.
We are on an arc of self determination in the third world that was catalyzed by WWII and FDR. That India is as screwed up as it is still doesn't portend very much progress in the middle east towards stable, just societies.
This is the last thread on Russia I could find... WTF are these dickheads thinking? Do they really want to light off WW III?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ac_1460575944
This is the last thread on Russia I could find... WTF are these dickheads thinking? Do they really want to light off WW III?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ac_1460575944
Nothing new. The Soviet heilo that was flying around taking pictures of the ship is more worrisome and it didn't even make the news, only the unarmed jets did.
Nothing new. The Soviet heilo that was flying around taking pictures of the ship is more worrisome and it didn't even make the news, only the unarmed jets did.
I read about the helo as well. I know it's nothing terribly new but they keep provoking and one day things are gonna go south.
I feel weird when agreeing with Kev, but, yes, supporting the House of Saud, as well as Turkey, is to support ISIS, and Assad is really not that bad. We have and continue to support people a billion times worse.
Life under Assad only sucks if you are a hardcore Islamist/terrorist (same thing really).
This is the last thread on Russia I could find... WTF are these dickheads thinking? Do they really want to light off WW III?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ac_1460575944
Practice runs.
It's to be expected given we were in their neighborhood regardless of international waters. Normally it wouldn't be as overt but Putin felt like giving Obama the finger again and laughing knowing Obama is powerless to do anything about it beside complain.
I'm sure in his brain Obama really believed he'd be giving Putin the big raspberry by the show of force in the Baltic Sea. Perhaps it's actually a good thing that Obama really doesn't understand how to use the military effectively or we might already be in a shooting war with Russia.
If we had a real President and Putin decided to run Russian Navy vessels down our coast (which he has done already a few times), I'm sure US Navy pilots would take advantage of the opportunity to practice a few runs.
This comes as no surprise. We have the means and motivated individuals to perform the work that Russia has done, but we lack the leadership at the top level.
I read about the helo as well. I know it's nothing terribly new but they keep provoking and one day things are gonna go south.
The most dangerous part of this entire episode is the fact that a Russian place could probably take a live fire run at the ship, claim confusion about it's actual location, and Putin would be confident that the ship would probably need special permission from Obama to protect itself.
This isn't a Russian show of force, this is a demonstration of US weakness. I'm surprised they aren't dropping loaded diapers on the deck.
Would kind of being the final defining moment of the Obama Presidency, where he tried to remove a brutal dictator, created a power vacuum that was quickly filled with violent terrorists who claimed large swaths of land from Syria to Iraq, losing even land liberated by a decade of American blood, only to have it all go back to square one with Assad back in power supported by the Russians.
Basically if Obama never existed, or never intervened, the region would have never had to suffer the consequences of Obama's support. Europe would sure as hell be in a lot better shape had Obama simply done nothing.
Obama's latest epiphany over Libya and the awful consequences of his unleashing HRC on that mess is deciding that he'll try to have a plan for the next disastrous major intervention after we help overthrow whomever. He's not paying much attention to F.P. and really couldn't care less about consequences as long as the political heat allows him to concentrate on other issues.
BHO and HRC had 10 years of evidence to help them understand power vacuums, unintended consequences, quagmire and murderous anarchy. They went ahead anyway because, what, HRC bonafides to run the country?
Who knows?
This comes as no surprise. We have the means and motivated individuals to perform the work that Russia has done, but we lack the leadership at the top level.
God forbid someone else accomplish something mutually desirable in the M.E. that we could have done, heh? Who care's if it borders Russia and is halfway around the globe from us? That's like leading from behind and it's seems to be worth burning the world to the ground to prevent that.
Seriously. If Russia wants to prop up the Assad regime, help stabilize the region and stem the flow of refugees while acting as a bulwark against ISIS what on Earth do we have to piss and moan about?
KalashniKEV
04-14-16, 09:55
...help stabilize the region and stem the flow of refugees while acting as a bulwark against ISIS what on Earth do we have to piss and moan about?
1) We do not want a stable Middle East. It is absolutely imperative that the region never (EVER!) get their shit together. We need to keep things chaotic and disorganized at least until the US... and the entire rest of the planet... is off oil. That is why we constantly sow the seeds of turmoil and strife (and that is also why we experience terror).
1a- This is why we invaded and destroyed the infrastructure and economy of secular Ba'athist Iraq.
2) The CIA can-not-stay-mad at al Qaeda. Not even after 9/11. Now that Osama is 100% out of the picture after being forced into retirement and AaZ is like 125 years old, career CIA bureaucrats want to be friends again... and they have allies in government who want to be part of something secret and cool.
2a- This is why we created a no-fly-zone in Libya to allow AQIM to gain strength and prepare for their blitz krieg... not just to make AQ happy, but because they are a weapon that serves our foreign policy goals and those of the House of Saud. Qaddafi was getting his shit together in a rapid and frightening way. The Libya he took over and the Libya he left behind were night and day. The Brother Leader built infrastructure, hospitals, and universities. He gave women more rights than anywhere else in the region. He illuminated the people's minds and put food in their bellies.
Control of your own (valuable) resources, a gold backed currency, no central bank, not cutting deals in dollars? That's the scariest shit in the world for a Middle Eastern country to be doing. Better send in al Qaeda to fix that!
Unfortunately, the CIA arm of the plot knows a little better about negotiating with al Qaeda than the State Department, and they had to learn the hard way that renting a villa in Terror Town and inviting Islamic militants over for a float in the pool is a NO GO.
2b- This is why we are sponsoring al Qaeda/ JaN/ FSA (Fake Syrian Army) against secular Ba'athist Syria.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/10410809_10153086361896041_4635985262549257623_n_zpsxi7m4ynh.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Kalashnikev/media/10410809_10153086361896041_4635985262549257623_n_zpsxi7m4ynh.jpg.html)
Sooner or later we will have to get on the right side of history, folks...
http://i.alalam.ir/news/Image/original/2014/05/30/alalam_635370379728961050_25f_4x3.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sAr5HMOnzuo/UoTOBsGtfSI/AAAAAAAABB4/gYz0QndCYJw/s640/Slavonic_Corps_5.jpg
not...
FSA
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r220/Kalashnikev/553381_10151959066865114_1977584383_n_zpsgmiet1gn.jpg (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Kalashnikev/media/553381_10151959066865114_1977584383_n_zpsgmiet1gn.jpg.html)
JaN
http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FFree_Syrian_Army.jpg
Div30
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03392/nusraSUM_3392032b.jpg
1a- This is why we invaded and destroyed the infrastructure and economy of secular Ba'athist Iraq.
Actually that entire matter began with the theft of Iraqi oil resources by Kuwait.
Also we get plenty of oil from Kuwait and Qatar, when are we going to screw up their governments?
KalashniKEV
04-14-16, 21:03
Actually that entire matter began with the theft of Iraqi oil resources by Kuwait.
It's more complicated than that.
Kuwait was not only slant drilling Iraqi reserves, but Kuwait is the 19th province of Iraq sliced off to deny them a deep water port at ash Shuaba, and to provide candy to the al Sabah dynasty.
Also after Iran-Iraq, the other soft handed Gulf Arabs forgave Saddam's debt incurred in keeping the bearded Shi'ite maniac from slicing their throats- the al Sabahs sent a diplomat to negotiate a repayment plan.
Once again, you have failed to recognize history since before-you-started-paying-attention.
Also we get plenty of oil from Kuwait and Qatar, when are we going to screw up their governments?
See the other thread.
Once the 28 redacted pages are released (it's already been leaked what they say) we will be forced to declare immediate war on Saudi Arabia and their client regimes in retaliation for 9/11, and then we must turn inward and seek justice for the victims by publishing the facts, and prosecuting those responsible within our own government.
The Sunni Gulf monarchies work great for us when they keep their annual death toll due to Salafism/ Wahhabism/ militant transnational Jihad in the double digits. Quadruple digits makes us sad.
(...and then we respond by giving them weapons, buying their oil, and destroying their enemies)
"Assad's dictatorship" is actually a pretty chill place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omMoaZu5nh8
We're not supposed to know this though, because then why would the CIA be sponsoring worldwide Jihad by training/arming/funding al Qaeda in Libya/Syria/Iraq...
Syria has bars and nightclubs under Assad. Yeah, we need to take him out, destabilize the country and let a bunch of ISIS goatF'ers run the country. Our ME foreign policy is a catastrophe.
It's more complicated than that.
Kuwait was not only slant drilling Iraqi reserves, but Kuwait is the 19th province of Iraq sliced off to deny them a deep water port at ash Shuaba, and to provide candy to the al Sabah dynasty.
Also after Iran-Iraq, the other soft handed Gulf Arabs forgave Saddam's debt incurred in keeping the bearded Shi'ite maniac from slicing their throats- the al Sabahs sent a diplomat to negotiate a repayment plan.
Once again, you have failed to recognize history since before-you-started-paying-attention.
Oh wise one, stop being so full of yourself. We could probably take this all the way back to Mohammed if we really, really wanted to.
What I was saying, which should be obvious to ANYONE with a history of the region, is we went from being allied with Saddam to protagonist. The genesis of that split was the Kuwait dispute. And the Kuwait dispute ultimately led to our invasion of Iraq which is what we were talking about in the first place.
We didn't invade Iraq because of how some map was drawn after WWI. Additionally you were talking about the Baath party which was founded in 1948, Kuwaiti independence happened in 1752.
Looking forward to the release of the 28 redacted pages and the declaration of war on Saudi Arabia. Will this be under the Obama or Clinton Administration? Will they use flying monkeys?
Seriously, I don't care how complicit Saudi is demonstrated to be with 9-11. Half the country thinks Bush was behind it all. The Saudi Royal family will remain insulated enough that whatever assistance they provided will be blamed on some group of unknown radicals. You are delusional if you think we are actually going to start a war with Saudi Arabia.
Personally I'd love to attack the home of wahhabism, which is the root cause of all the bullshit we deal with. But it isn't going to happen and it isn't going to happen. Obama doesn't have the balls and Clinton probably couldn't wage a successful war against Somalia much less Saudi Arabia.
We might be able to pull of a proxy conflict, and I'd love to think that is what a nuclear Iran is really about, but I don't think Obama and Kerry are that far sighted and I don't think we can depend upon it to happen the way we want it to happen.
But if Tehran nuked Riyadh, it wouldn't be completely surprising. I wouldn't go out and dance in the street, but I might see it as their chickens coming home to roost.
KalashniKEV
04-15-16, 10:55
Syria has bars and nightclubs under Assad. Yeah, we need to take him out, destabilize the country and let a bunch of ISIS goatF'ers run the country. Our ME foreign policy is a catastrophe.
Remember the TOWs we provided to AQ/JaN to boost their anti-armor/ anti-Russian CSAR team capability?
Some of those tanks are commanded by female soldiers and officers who don't want their beautiful country to turn into the latest US sponsored crazy al Qaeda hell pit.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03242/syria-female-comma_3242256k.jpg
What we are involved in is true Evil. The people who are doing this need to be exposed, prosecuted, and punished.
Seriously, I don't care how complicit Saudi is demonstrated to be with 9-11. Half the country thinks Bush was behind it all. The Saudi Royal family will remain insulated enough that whatever assistance they provided will be blamed on some group of unknown radicals. You are delusional if you think we are actually going to start a war with Saudi Arabia.
Well I still do, but it's only been 15 years since I discovered my last set of human remains at Ground Zero, NYC.
Slap yourself.
The false flag interrogation of Abu Z represents a direct link between the 9/11 operation and Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, the nephew of King Fahd.
We know this. The 28 redacted pages have been seen by too many politicians and non-secret-keeping folks. It doesn't matter how much of the supporting evidence is destroyed by the CIA, or who is in power once they are released.
The release of the 28 pages will necessitate an immediate war, and the killing of a lot of fat guys in dishdashas.
Well I still do, but it's only been 15 years since I discovered my last set of human remains at Ground Zero, NYC.
Slap yourself.
The false flag interrogation of Abu Z represents a direct link between the 9/11 operation and Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul-Aziz, the nephew of King Fahd.
We know this. The 28 redacted pages have been seen by too many politicians and non-secret-keeping folks. It doesn't matter how much of the supporting evidence is destroyed by the CIA, or who is in power once they are released.
The release of the 28 pages will necessitate an immediate war, and the killing of a lot of fat guys in dishdashas.
You have an amazing ability to misunderstand everything I type.
When I wrote "Seriously, I don't care how complicit Saudi is demonstrated to be with 9-11" I didn't mean "I" don't personally care, I meant "it won't make any difference." The very next sentence I wrote should have made that obvious to everyone, except you apparently.
Again, I'd love to see Operation Burning Mecca, but it's just never going to happen. Nobody is going to start a war because a Saudi nephew turned out to be a terrorist supporter / sympathizer.
KalashniKEV
04-15-16, 16:14
You have an amazing ability to misunderstand everything I type.
When I wrote "Seriously, I don't care how complicit Saudi is demonstrated to be with 9-11" I didn't mean "I" don't personally care, I meant "it won't make any difference." The very next sentence I wrote should have made that obvious to everyone, except you apparently.
Again, I'd love to see Operation Burning Mecca, but it's just never going to happen. Nobody is going to start a war because a Saudi nephew turned out to be a terrorist supporter / sympathizer.
1) Nobody said anything about desecrating holy sites.
2) You really think that ONE (1) member of the House of Saud is involved in funding/planning/executing/promoting transnational violent jihad???
Have you not been keeping track of Bandar Bush's support to ISIS?
At all??
1) Nobody said anything about desecrating holy sites.
2) You really think that ONE (1) member of the House of Saud is involved in funding/planning/executing/promoting transnational violent jihad???
Have you not been keeping track of Bandar Bush's support to ISIS?
At all??
It's like you are being deliberately obtuse. You can't seem to differentiate between what "I believe" and what "Everyone else will believe, say or do."
I'm trying to explain to you that nobody is going to care. They will make it about a lone rogue nephew who was led astray by radicals, etc. They will do this regardless of what you or I believe. There won't be a war about it.
Now personally, meaning ME and how I feel about it, I would personally love to see us finally go to war with the root source of Wahhabism that is motivating every group who wants to kill the rest of us. I fully understand Saudi is ground zero for the ultra orthodox teachings that are the commonality of groups like ISIS, Al Quida, etc.
But that won't happen because we lack the leadership capable of waging such a war.
Instead of going to war with the heartland of Wahhabism, perhaps we could try some smaller steps.
Stop pretending Saudi Arabia is an ally.
Stop pretending that the war on Yemen, which ignores AQAP and falsely purports to engage Iran indirectly, is our business and not a humanitarian disaster on an epic scale.
Stop arms sales, some of the most massive in history, to the kingdom.
They are a brutal regime guilty of abuses that should make us pale and open sponsors of terrorism. Instead, we support them no matter what they do- I'm not even sure we give a f***- and then engage in sanctimonious posturing at various levels about every other state in the region, often completely divorced from coherence or reality.
KalashniKEV
04-16-16, 13:45
They are a brutal regime guilty of abuses that should make us pale and open sponsors of terrorism. Instead, we support them no matter what they do- I'm not even sure we give a f***...
It is possible that we support them because they could make 9/11 happen once a month.
Bandar Bush straight up told Tony Blair that if the House of Saud didn't get weapons off of BAE, there would be more 7/7 style attacks in the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-514447/Saudis-told-Britain-face-7-7-BAE-arms-deal-probe-continued.html
Guess what happened regarding the Parliament's inquiries into the £43 billion Al-Yamamah arms deal?
LOL... yes, al Yo'mama... and yes when they went to US court, BAE pleaded GUILTY to fake books, fraudulent statements, and false records. Nobody went to jail though, and none of the BAE execs got waterboarded...
MountainRaven
04-16-16, 14:45
To be fair, our alliance with Iraq was never very strong.
We were, afterall, selling weapons to the Iranians at the same time we were selling weapons to the Iraqis (while the two were killing each other).
To be fair, our alliance with Iraq was never very strong.
We were, afterall, selling weapons to the Iranians at the same time we were selling weapons to the Iraqis (while the two were killing each other).
And ironically that was to try and maintain the Shia / Sunni balance of power in the region. At the end of the day it was also effin' retarded.
Saddam was NOT a nice person, but Iraq was the closest thing to a modern Western Democracy that we had in the region. If the UN was capable of doing what it's stated purpose for existence was, there would have been no need to kick over the apple cart. We should have been a bit more supportive of Saddam and his war against Iran, perhaps they wouldn't be on the verge of becoming a nuclear power today.
We also need to stop having "proxy" conflicts with Russia. This is another Reagan alliance that was worked long and hard for that was screwed up almost as soon as it was established.
Bush (43) had a wonderful opportunity to work with Putin following 9-11, but instead decided to call him out on human rights violations in Chechnya. Just one really, bad decision after another.
I can't believe these people run the country.
MountainRaven
04-16-16, 19:37
The UN was once capable of carrying out its mission.
Back when Russia was boycotting it and China's seat was held by the Republic of China rather than the People's Republic of China. If Russia and the PRC think it's a bad idea, it might just be a good one. But if France or the UK think it's not a good idea... it might not be a good idea.
And we did have a secular, Western democracy in the Islamic Middle East, until the CIA and Mi6 decided that a Shah - a monarch - reliant upon the US was better than a more independent, democratic Iran that might not be as interested in opposing the Soviets at every turn as we would like (and we all know how that ended).
But as Kalash-Kev has said: We have never wanted the Middle-East to be stable. A Middle-East in chaos serves our ends nearly as well as a US-friendly stable Middle-East does. And a stable Middle-East has no reason to be overly friendly with the US.
I can't believe these people run the country.
I actually can. I'm most certainly not one of these people who think we should be like Europe or whatever but....
For the Ivy Leaguers and Skull and Boners we willfully elect:
-Almost all don't speak a second language
-A lot now have no real military or public service under their belts
-Most have never had to be fully accountable for anything
-They have a glaring ignorance or willful defiance to the very basic, written in black and white precepts of our Constitution
-They know lowest common denominator votes in highest possible quantity
-And that no matter what happens; They end their terms with a healthy pension and lifetime security.
Its a job to them. They give two shits for the 19 year old's life they waste, the city they help destroy with race baiting, or the American economy they trash.
They literally have nothing to lose
MountainRaven
04-16-16, 19:56
I believe it was Robert Heinlein who said that the president is basically just an average guy, but slightly better than most.
Who we elect and how they act is more or less a representation of Americans as a whole.
How many Americans know a second language? How many Americans have any military or public service? How many Americans really understand the Constitution at all (students, when tasked with devising a Constitution as part of their civics courses not infrequently create Constitutions that limit themselves, rather than their instructors or any form of authority, so pretty clearly Americans have a very, very poor grasp of the Constitution)? How many Americans actually care - not just give lip service to, but genuinely care - about veterans? How many care about another city in another state when it comes to riots and economic ruin? Hell, most probably don't care if the riots are held in the next neighborhood down, so long as it doesn't inconvenience them.
I agree. I totally agree.
We score consistently low on STEM, but damn if we don't have opinions and entitlement out the ass.
30 years ago we were a space faring nation and now we hitch rides from Russia.
Progress.
It is possible that we support them because they could make 9/11 happen once a month.
Bandar Bush straight up told Tony Blair that if the House of Saud didn't get weapons off of BAE, there would be more 7/7 style attacks in the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-514447/Saudis-told-Britain-face-7-7-BAE-arms-deal-probe-continued.html
Guess what happened regarding the Parliament's inquiries into the £43 billion Al-Yamamah arms deal?
LOL... yes, al Yo'mama... and yes when they went to US court, BAE pleaded GUILTY to fake books, fraudulent statements, and false records. Nobody went to jail though, and none of the BAE execs got waterboarded...
Just as it's feckless and stupid to blindly support such a regime, it's ridiculous that we would kowtow to such threats. IF a 09/11 was happening every month AND the Saudi's were responsible for a bulk of the personnel, resources or anything attached to a necessarily large and impossible to completely hide operation THEN we could finally do something heavy handed justifiably in the middle east by crushing their relatively vulnerable U.S. sourced military. After that we could start in on their precious infrastructure.
We are indeed quite strong. It's the stupid that I find most objectionable.
KalashniKEV
04-17-16, 06:38
IF a 09/11 was happening every month AND the Saudi's were responsible for a bulk of the personnel, resources... THEN we could finally do something heavy handed justifiably in the middle east...
Once is enough.
Steyr says it wouldn't work though, because AQ/ the House of Saud wouldn't allow it. Personally I'm not sure why that's relevant since most of them would be killed in the ensuing war.
Also their agents in government and positions of power (the fools they invest in and make rich in exchange for seeking greater power and doing their bidding once they get there) wouldn't act. Personally I'm not sure why that's relevant since most of them would be exposed during truth and reconciliation, tried, and imprisoned or killed in the ensuing action.
I'm definitely not talking about the normal kabuki theater bullshit and "the average American is too dumb for the truth."
I'm talking about something completely different.
Outlander Systems
04-17-16, 11:12
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-warns-ofeconomic-fallout-if-congress-passes-9-11-bill.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/
Saudi Arabia has told the Obama administration and members of Congress that it will sell off hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of American assets held by the kingdom if Congress passes a bill that would allow the Saudi government to be held responsible in American courts for any role in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The Obama administration has lobbied Congress to block the bill’s passage, according to administration officials and congressional aides from both parties, and the Saudi threats have been the subject of intense discussions in recent weeks between lawmakers and officials from the State Department and the Pentagon. The officials have warned senators of diplomatic and economic fallout from the legislation.
Once is enough.
Steyr says it wouldn't work though, because AQ/ the House of Saud wouldn't allow it. Personally I'm not sure why that's relevant since most of them would be killed in the ensuing war.
Also their agents in government and positions of power (the fools they invest in and make rich in exchange for seeking greater power and doing their bidding once they get there) wouldn't act. Personally I'm not sure why that's relevant since most of them would be exposed during truth and reconciliation, tried, and imprisoned or killed in the ensuing action.
I'm definitely not talking about the normal kabuki theater bullshit and "the average American is too dumb for the truth."
I'm talking about something completely different.
KalashniKEV
04-17-16, 11:26
Saudi Arabia has told the Obama administration and members of Congress that it will sell off hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of American assets held by the kingdom...
Let the bidding begin.
I'm looking right out the window at Turnberry Towers where the Bin Laden brothers lived.
They called Bandar Bush on 9/11 for instructions, and he put them up in the Watergate until they could be linked up with the Texas Bin Ladens (under FBI escort) and secreted out of the country.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bin-laden-family-evacuated/
I'd throw in a number on it... if they don't just want to give it to me for training and arming their AQI infiltrated IA unit in OIF-IV. ;)
I could probably even swing it if they take a hit like they did on Hala Ranch (the most expensive sale ever) Bandar Bush bought it for $135M and sold it for $49M six years later.
http://www.businessideas.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Hala-Ranch-700x352.jpg
Outlander Systems
04-17-16, 11:49
No shit.
A) Good luck finding buyers
B) The Saudis, and their complicit lackeys in the US Gov't can go **** themselves
The corruption is so deep it hurts.
Let the bidding begin.
I'm looking right out the window at Turnberry Towers where the Bin Laden brothers lived.
They called Bandar Bush on 9/11 for instructions, and he put them up in the Watergate until they could be linked up with the Texas Bin Ladens (under FBI escort) and secreted out of the country.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bin-laden-family-evacuated/
I'd throw in a number on it... if they don't just want to give it to me for training and arming their AQI infiltrated IA unit in OIF-IV. ;)
I could probably even swing it if they take a hit like they did on Hala Ranch (the most expensive sale ever) Bandar Bush bought it for $135M and sold it for $49M six years later.
Kev, curiosity question:
Did you vote for Bush either time?
Once is enough.
Steyr says it wouldn't work though, because AQ/ the House of Saud wouldn't allow it. Personally I'm not sure why that's relevant since most of them would be killed in the ensuing war.
Once again you don't understand what I write. It isn't going to happen because the "House of Saud" won't allow it, it will be because OUR COUNTY lacks the leadership to do anything close to what you are talking about.
Please take the time to read what I write.
Let the bidding begin.
I'm looking right out the window at Turnberry Towers where the Bin Laden brothers lived.
They called Bandar Bush on 9/11 for instructions, and he put them up in the Watergate until they could be linked up with the Texas Bin Ladens (under FBI escort) and secreted out of the country.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bin-laden-family-evacuated/
I'd throw in a number on it... if they don't just want to give it to me for training and arming their AQI infiltrated IA unit in OIF-IV. ;)
I could probably even swing it if they take a hit like they did on Hala Ranch (the most expensive sale ever) Bandar Bush bought it for $135M and sold it for $49M six years later.
All true. But you might mention how huge the Bin Laden family is, and that fact that if given the chance, Osama would have killed most of them for dealing with the "Great Satan."
You strongly suggest the Bush was dealing with Bin Laden the terrorists when in fact he was dealing with extremely wealthy Saudi oil brokers.
KalashniKEV
04-17-16, 16:04
Kev, curiosity question:
Did you vote for Bush either time?
First time yes, second time no.
Once again you don't understand what I write.
Please take the time to read what I write.
Your words read like a bizarre mixture of ancient Chinese, un-American defeatism, and feminine angst.
Anyway, besides from all this GWOT stuff, the existing power structure is toast.
Todo es possible.
...if given the chance, Osama would have killed most of them for dealing with the "Great Satan."
OMGosh... that's so funny... b/c guess what?
ME TOO!
LOL
...OUR COUNTY lacks the leadership to do anything close to what you are talking about.
I'm 2 stops from the Pentagon, 4 stops from the White House, and a few more from Capitol Hill.
I'm also minutes away from signing on and fixing this mess, if only the opportunity presents itself.
You strongly suggest the Bush was dealing with Bin Laden the terrorists when in fact he was dealing with extremely wealthy Saudi oil brokers.
No, I've not made that suggestion.
GHWB was only one of many Americans they invested in and made rich, in the hopes that he or another like him would one day return the favor.
Bandar Bush is the puppet master for that relationship. If some other oil man made it to the top, some other handler would have ended up in the catbird seat.
Your words read like a bizarre mixture of ancient Chinese, un-American defeatism, and feminine angst.
Anyway, besides from all this GWOT stuff, the existing power structure is toast.
Todo es possible.
So now saying that I don't think our current leadership is up to the task of taking on our true enemies and I don't have faith that we will get anyone who is in the near future is "un-American defeatism"?
Not sure where you get ancient Chinese from and you'd be the expert on feminine angst I guess.
OMGosh... that's so funny... b/c guess what?
ME TOO!
LOL
So given the choice of which Bin Ladens to kill, you would prefer it be those who sell us oil than Osama? Guess that's consistency.
I'm 2 stops from the Pentagon, 4 stops from the White House, and a few more from Capitol Hill.
I'm also minutes away from signing on and fixing this mess, if only the opportunity presents itself.
Location is meaningless, the fact that yours if full of traitors is nothing to brag about.
And again, because you seem to have consistently missed it, willfully ignored it or for whatever reason couldn't comprehend it the last several times I stated it.
I believe Saudi Arabia is one of our greatest enemies. It is the source of Wahhabi and that is the basis for groups like Al Quida, ISIS, etc. I would love to see the home of that hateful ideology destroyed forever.
But our current leadership is not up for this task, in fact Obama just released a 10 people from Gitmo today. I know for certain Hillary won't start a war with Saudi Arabia, and that is probably a good thing, I can't think of anyone who could screw up a war more than Hillary Clinton.
So I don't believe we are going to war with Saudi anytime soon despite your optimism and stated willingness to join the cause. That's not defeatism, that is recognizing what is likely. I understand you believe otherwise, I guess we can wait and see who is correct.
No, I've not made that suggestion.
GHWB was only one of many Americans they invested in and made rich, in the hopes that he or another like him would one day return the favor.
Bandar Bush is the puppet master for that relationship. If some other oil man made it to the top, some other handler would have ended up in the catbird seat.
Sorry if I got confused. I was not sure who exactly you were referencing by "Bander Bush", I thought you were talking about Bush (43). Perhaps if you did less name calling there would be less confusion.
Sorry if I got confused. I was not sure who exactly you were referencing by "Bander Bush", I thought you were talking about Bush (43). Perhaps if you did less name calling there would be less confusion.
I'll just post this here for clarification purposes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan
KalashniKEV
04-18-16, 08:19
...I don't think our current leadership...
But our current leadership is not...
Keep saying it over and over.
You'll still be wrong.
Times are a' changing too, if you haven't noticed.
Sorry if I got confused. I was not sure who...
Honestly, part of what makes it impossible to discuss anything of importance with you regarding this topic is that you don't know the people, the history, the players, or the motives.
I somewhat appreciate your verbose responses, but you might as well be spouting off based on a slim knowledge of high yield farming, nanotech circuits, or coal gassification.
Not trying to be insulting, but it's the truth...
Keep saying it over and over.
You'll still be wrong.
Times are a' changing too, if you haven't noticed.
Yeah, and if Hillary becomes President it will be worse.
Honestly, part of what makes it impossible to discuss anything of importance with you regarding this topic is that you don't know the people, the history, the players, or the motives.
I somewhat appreciate your verbose responses, but you might as well be spouting off based on a slim knowledge of high yield farming, nanotech circuits, or coal gassification.
Not trying to be insulting, but it's the truth...
Funny, I feel the same way as you. The fact that I don't know all the "slang names" doesn't mean I don't understand the situation.
But here is one thing I have learned.
1. You don't take the time to read and understand what I write.
2. You think because YOU believe something, then it is fact.
3. When you can't counter an argument with anything other than opinion, you belittle those with whom disagree.
So taking that all in, I won't be wasting any more time trying to discuss this subject or any other with you. But when we declare war on Saudi Arabia, I will dutifully report to this forum so you could tell me how you were right and I was completely wrong.
Outlander Systems
04-18-16, 17:34
Gents, calmeth thy breastesses lest ye overlords dropeth the lock hammer.
KalashniKEV
04-20-16, 12:53
It's all starting to unravel...
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FromMyColdDeadHand
04-20-16, 15:32
Looks like KEVs buddy's will have less money for their secular, pro-western middle-east rebuilding.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-iran-idUSKCN0XH1R6
Looks like KEVs buddy's will have less money for their secular, pro-western middle-east rebuilding.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-iran-idUSKCN0XH1R6
So a US court has determined Iran was directly involved an the attack on US Marines and must pay damages. Why is this not considered an act of war? Why are we still maintaining a nuclear agreement with the same government?
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-20-16, 20:57
Don't you understand, they are the good guys.
What a cluster. The Shia, Sunni and Israelis have whacked our guys in the middle east at one time or another.
MountainRaven
04-21-16, 00:08
So a US court has determined Iran was directly involved an the attack on US Marines and must pay damages. Why is this not considered an act of war? Why are we still maintaining a nuclear agreement with the same government?
Well, I suggest you pack your guns, get on the next flight to Tehran and get right on it. Deus vult!
Well, I suggest you pack your guns, get on the next flight to Tehran and get right on it. Deus vult!
Can't right now, waiting on the war with Saudi Arabia that Kev promised me. That's the party I'm going to.
KalashniKEV
04-21-16, 05:27
Can't right now, waiting on the war with Saudi Arabia that Kev promised me. That's the party I'm going to.
But... the powers that be will not allow it!
You convinced me. That's actually going to be my retort to every-single-thing that happens in life right now... online and in person. It's hilarious.
You a trip, homey!
On the bright side though, if there was a war with Saudi Arabia and you did nut up and raise your hand, just think about all the benefits you would reap- having actual experience, knowing the players in the game? Hell, you'd BE a player... playa!
Plus after becoming a veteran of a foreign war, you could actually opine in VFW threads without completely embarrassing yourself and looking foolish.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-21-16, 07:38
I saw we just land in Kuwait, eff all their shit up and then go North and South. But no more nation building, just break it all and take anything of value.
But... the powers that be will not allow it!
You convinced me. That's actually going to be my retort to every-single-thing that happens in life right now... online and in person. It's hilarious.
You a trip, homey!
On the bright side though, if there was a war with Saudi Arabia and you did nut up and raise your hand, just think about all the benefits you would reap- having actual experience, knowing the players in the game? Hell, you'd BE a player... playa!
Plus after becoming a veteran of a foreign war, you could actually opine in VFW threads without completely embarrassing yourself and looking foolish.
A few things...
1. I never said the powers that be will not allow it, you must be confusing me with somebody else. I said we lack the leadership with the balls to do anything like that. We'd probably have fewer disagreements if you actually took the time to understand what I wrote.
2. The idea that you have to be present to understand things is so fundamentally absurd I don't know where to start. According to that logic, we will never understand anything about WWII and guys like Ambrose who were considered leading authorities on the subject didn't know the first thing about anything.
3. And finally, somebody asked about help regarding the VFW. I've never been a veteran of a foreign war, but that experience didn't seem critical to his inquiry. So I offered what I thought would be possibly useful information. Now if he was questions about operations related to combat in a foreign land, then I'd probably have no opinion. But a guy who ran a strip bar could probably offer information far more useful to the OP than somebody with combat experience.
So on that note, can you please find another leg to hump.
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