View Full Version : Guns banned at the RNC?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/28/more-than-42000-people-have-signed-a-petition-to-allow-guns-at-the-republican-national-convention/
There's a petition to allow guns at the RNC.
Trump: "I have to see what it says," he told ABC's Jonathan Karl, who asked him about the petition on the Sunday morning political show "This Week." "I'm a very, very strong person for Second Amendment. I think very few people are stronger. And I have to see the petition. But I'm not going to comment to you when I haven't seen it."
Cruz: "I haven't reviewed the particular petition," Cruz told reporters in Altoona, Wis., on Monday. "I will say, at the convention the Secret Service is going to have the principal decision-making concerning security and so that you would certainly want to get the recommendation from Secret Service -- how to maintain security for everyone."
Kasich: "All that matters is what the Secret Service says," Kasich said after an event in La Crosse,Wis., on Monday. "One of the things about security that I’ve had to learn over time is that when they tell you not to do something, you don’t do it, it’s for your interest. And the Secret Service is very important in these decisions as is security around the entire convention."
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), for example, suggested in December that gun-free zones attract killers.
"If you're a lunatic, ain't nothing better than having a bunch of targets you know that are going to be unarmed," he said.
A month later, Trump echoed that sentiment, saying he would end "gun-free zones" at schools and on military bases.
"You know what a gun-free zone is to sickos? That's bait!" he said in early January.
I find this sort of important. This is a "put your money where your mouth is" moment for 2A support. Kasich, apparently the only person who read the petition, is deferring to the Secret Service. Cruz and Trump are trying to avoid the issue... but from their previous statements, they should be pushing to allow firearms at the RNC. But Cruz is leaning towards supporting the ban from his quote.
:confused:
The Second Amendment is great to support in theory when you are running for office.
Quicken Loans Arena says no guns, Secret Service says no guns. It's not going to happen no matter what Trump, Cruz, or Kasich say.
Linebacker
03-28-16, 15:27
Quicken Loans Arena says no guns, Secret Service says no guns. It's not going to happen no matter what Trump, Cruz, or Kasich say.
Bingo. It is not a 2nd A issue (private property).
The USSS is not going to allow that; not if they are smart and don't want to have to deal with another death on their watch. The politicos climate in this country is ripe for some idiot to try and kill a candidate. Seems like over the last 8 years or so (more likely longer) the climate in this country resembles a third world banana republic when it comes to being tolerant of people's opinions. Go figure.
brickboy240
03-28-16, 15:43
If this was that important to the RNC, they should have done their homework on where to hold a convention.
By trying to usurp the law placed there by the entity that privately owns the property...is that not infringing on the rights of a private property owner?
So is the "we should be able to carry guns everywhere" crowd cool with infringing on private property rights?
...just wondering.
BuzzinSATX
03-28-16, 15:53
This isn't a smart fight to pick for 2A supporters, and would be stupid to insist that guns be allowed at his type of event. Waaaaayyy too many things could go wrong that could set back the cause, and you know there would be some paid problem makers...
Take Care,
Buzz
I don't generally support gun free zones.
However, there are too many ways for this to turn out really bad for the pro-2A croud if guns - open or concealed, are allowed in this venue. Security inside needs to be airtight - there are just too many wacos on both sides of the political spectrum who could use this as a platform.
From Trump supporters if he doesn't make it to Trump opponents if he does, to anyone on the left who wants to make this a future anti-2A rallying cry, to our beloved friends in the religion of peace.
If you're that worried about your safety - stay home.
I also think the open carry types generally cause more harm for the 2A than good, but that's another topic.
Auto-X Fil
03-28-16, 16:06
Gun-free zones need metal detectors and armed guards to be effective. If this has both - then great.
If this was that important to the RNC, they should have done their homework on where to hold a convention.
By trying to usurp the law placed there by the entity that privately owns the property...is that not infringing on the rights of a private property owner?
So is the "we should be able to carry guns everywhere" crowd cool with infringing on private property rights?
...just wondering.
The private entity doesn't make a "law". It's a rule that the Arena can freely disregard or change.
This has nothing to do with infringing on the rights of a private property owner. It's changing venue / applying economic pressure to change their rules.
The Secret Service can also change their own rules - the law doesn't require them to make areas visited by their protectees a gun-free-zone, but it enables them to do so.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-28-16, 16:24
This isn't a smart fight to pick for 2A supporters, and would be stupid to insist that guns be allowed at his type of event. Waaaaayyy too many things could go wrong that could set back the cause, and you know there would be some paid problem makers...
I haven't seen the actual one, but since it mentions open carry specifically in reports, 'stupid' is baked in.
FMCDH's rule on OC is if you are willing to dangle your junk in the wind, it is suitable place for OC. OC ain't for in large crowds where you can't control your space around you.
OCers are the rights version of a crazy tranny that wants to screw up everything by screaming and throwing a hissy fit insisting on their 'rights', no matter how inappropriate. If you want to be queer, shut up and blend in.
Dollars to donuts that some lefty started this to rile up an issue.
Gun-free zones need metal detectors and armed guards to be effective. If this has both - then great.
Yep.
Of all the sh!t wrong in the republican party, obviously this is the major issue to focus on.
I've always abhorred this sort of hypocrisy. Are we a free society with well respected 2A rights, or not? How can law makers and law enforcers say the support my rights and "allow" me to carry concealed when I'm out in society, just not around them… So its fine to take my guns to a crowded movie theater, a busy mall, or downtown anywhere, but I can't bring my gun to a convention of people who are supposedly supporting my right to keep AND BEAR arms? The NRA does the same thing at their convention, much to my disgust. SHOT show does it too. All these guys think its wonderful to have a free society with guns and all, just don't keep and bear your arms around them...
Its BS! Either you trust the "common man" with a gun on his belt, or you don't. If we can't can't be trusted with them at the RNC, then why allow them at all? I think we CAN be trusted. I think there are far more good guys than bad. I don't want the good guys disarmed. I would have no problem standing at a RNC knowing that the thousands of people around me were also able to legally carry if they wanted to. Nor would have have a problem with it at the SHOT show, a sporting event or any other public venue. I trust my fellow man (and woman…) to behave responsibly, and we already have a system in place to deal with those members of our society who choose to not behave responsibly. Granted our current administration is crippling that justice system, but its still there.
This reminds me of all the Hollywood stars and lefties who advocate for illegal immigration and offering refuge to enemy soldiers who leave their families behind, but they don't want it in THEIR house, or in THEIR neighborhood, or anywhere they'd actually have to see or deal with these people. Yet they have no problem foisting it upon other people who WILL have to deal with these folks. You want to let Syrian "refugees" and "undocumented workers" into our country? Okay. No problem. What's your address? We will deliver them to your front door and they can stay with you, at your expense while they are here doing whatever it is they are here to do.
This elitist non-sense needs to be eradicated from BOTH sides.
The Second Ammendment will die the death of a thousand cuts.
"shall not be infringed" except in the following situations...ad infinitum.
That's how I see it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-28-16, 16:59
I've always abhorred this sort of hypocrisy. Are we a free society with well respected 2A rights, or not? How can law makers and law enforcers say the support my rights and "allow" me to carry concealed when I'm out in society, just not around them… So its fine to take my guns to a crowded movie theater, a busy mall, or downtown anywhere, but I can't bring my gun to a convention of people who are supposedly supporting my right to keep AND BEAR arms? The NRA does the same thing at their convention, much to my disgust. SHOT show does it too. All these guys think its wonderful to have a free society with guns and all, just don't keep and bear your arms around them...
Its BS! Either you trust the "common man" with a gun on his belt, or you don't. If we can't can't be trusted with them at the RNC, then why allow them at all? I think we CAN be trusted. I think there are far more good guys than bad. I don't want the good guys disarmed. I would have no problem standing at a RNC knowing that the thousands of people around me were also able to legally carry if they wanted to. Nor would have have a problem with it at the SHOT show, a sporting event or any other public venue. I trust my fellow man (and woman…) to behave responsibly, and we already have a system in place to deal with those members of our society who choose to not behave responsibly. Granted our current administration is crippling that justice system, but its still there.
This reminds me of all the Hollywood stars and lefties who advocate for illegal immigration and offering refuge to enemy soldiers who leave their families behind, but they don't want it in THEIR house, or in THEIR neighborhood, or anywhere they'd actually have to see or deal with these people. Yet they have no problem foisting it upon other people who WILL have to deal with these folks. You want to let Syrian "refugees" and "undocumented workers" into our country? Okay. No problem. What's your address? We will deliver them to your front door and they can stay with you, at your expense while they are here doing whatever it is they are here to do.
This elitist non-sense needs to be eradicated from BOTH sides.
Can't carry it on the plane to get there either.
If they have security there, I think arguing about CCW, let alone OC, is really just the left trying to stir stuff up.
In a situation like that, you are far more likely to,get zapped by friendly fire than pull a Jack Ryan and save the prince.
Either you're pro gun or not.
Me....I would most certainly have guns at my rallies/townhalls/punsches.
If someone assassinates me, oh well. At least I died for what I believed in and everyone else in the crowd will blow my assassin to hell for me
Dollars to donuts that some lefty started this to rile up an issue.
Those darn leftys trying to get us consistent gun rights.
Gun-free zones need metal detectors and armed guards to be effective. If this has both - then great.
Are you saying schools with metal detectors and armed guards should continue to be gun free zones? What about federal buildings? Military bases?
Basically, it's acceptable to you that there are places where you have no right to bear arms? Cause if so, ok. You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. The prevailing thought on this forum is usually along the lines of "shall not be infringed." It's somewhat surprising that it's not the case here.
Well, that is the final straw, I'm just gonna go out and vote for fatlery now. She wouldn't ban guns at a convention.
:jester::jester::jester::jester:
Linebacker
03-28-16, 17:17
The convention will be amoung the most heavily guarded building in the world during the event, including metal detectors for entry. How in the hell would you suggest they process folks entering with permitted firearms? There are some retarted peeps in this forum with all due respect.
Auto-X Fil
03-28-16, 17:34
Those darn leftys trying to get us consistent gun rights.
Are you saying schools with metal detectors and armed guards should continue to be gun free zones? What about federal buildings? Military bases?
Basically, it's acceptable to you that there are places where you have no right to bear arms? Cause if so, ok. You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. The prevailing thought on this forum is usually along the lines of "shall not be infringed." It's somewhat surprising that it's not the case here.
By that logic, my 2A rights are violated when I go to a shooting range that isn't hot. How dare the range officer tell me to unload and show clear?
The RNC is a private event. The GOP is not the government. They can ban guns just as legally as I can ban you or your gun from my house.
Having metal detectors and armed guards just makes a gun-free zone effective. If a private venue chooses to do that, that's fine by me. If a government building or forest or park chooses to tell me not to carry, that's another issue.
I would assume the Secret Service would have a bit of a shit fit of people were carrying. When I was at the AIA convention in Atlanta last May I carried everywhere at the convention center, except when I went to see Slick Willy give the Key Note. Only place at the convention that had no gun signs. The signs only restricted it in that one hall, the rest of the building was g2g. I would assume they would do the same thing at the RNC.
The convention will be amoung the most heavily guarded building in the world during the event, including metal detectors for entry. How in the hell would you suggest they process folks entering with permitted firearms? There are some retarted peeps in this forum with all due respect.
Umm… Is this a trick question?
Call me a simpleton, but isn't that why you carry your CCW card? That is why I carry mine.
Can't carry it on the plane to get there either.
If they have security there, I think arguing about CCW, let alone OC, is really just the left trying to stir stuff up.
In a situation like that, you are far more likely to,get zapped by friendly fire than pull a Jack Ryan and save the prince.
I have no desire to save anyone's prince or be anyone who I am not. I have a very strong interest in self-preservation, and protecting my loved ones. I can't say that I would not intervene to help a child or old lady who was under attack if need be, but that is not the goal when I carry, and taking down the bad guys would not be my goal at an RNC either.
We can leave the cowboy crap to the imagination of all the lefties, where it belongs.
By that logic, my 2A rights are violated when I go to a shooting range that isn't hot. How dare the range officer tell me to unload and show clear?
The RNC is a private event. The GOP is not the government. They can ban guns just as legally as I can ban you or your gun from my house.
Having metal detectors and armed guards just makes a gun-free zone effective. If a private venue chooses to do that, that's fine by me. If a government building or forest or park chooses to tell me not to carry, that's another issue.
Of course they can legally create a gun free zone on their private property... even though it was built with public funds. Legality isn't the issue at hand.
The issue is if the GOP leadership and front runners being hypocrites for choosing such a venue and/or not pressuring the USSS and Arena to temporarily change their rules.
By that logic, my 2A rights are violated when I go to a shooting range that isn't hot. How dare the range officer tell me to unload and show clear?
I don't agree with this point. Exercising basic range safety in an area where you are invited and encouraged to keep and bear arms is not even in the same ball bark as telling someone they must walk around unarmed in a crowded public place. This was not the logic Koshinn was using. Your logic is decidedly different.
The RNC is a private event. The GOP is not the government. They can ban guns just as legally as I can ban you or your gun from my house.
I agree with the private venue being able to enforce their own rules here, BUT… we are talking about a very public place here. The public can't enter your house against your will. The public is free to come and go from the RNC. This is a slippery slope in my view.
My other point here is that whether it is allowed, or not, but the venue, I still find it hypocritical that the Pro 2A party would say no guns here, while advocating for guns most everywhere else.
Having metal detectors and armed guards just makes a gun-free zone effective. If a private venue chooses to do that, that's fine by me. If a government building or forest or park chooses to tell me not to carry, that's another issue.
What constitutes a "private venue"? Doesn't seem very private if thousands of people are invited to walk in off the street.
I'm okay with a privately owned bakery refusing to serve a customer whose life choices they don't approve of, but I am less okay with a privately owned public venue infringing upon constitutionally protected rights.
To me, it is not about what they can legally get away with in this day and age, it is about what is right and wrong. Sure I have the option of staying home is I don't like the rules of the venue, but should they be deciding things like this?
MountainRaven
03-28-16, 18:12
It used to be that a free man could walk right up to the king with his sidearm on, in plain view of all. Now you cannot even come within a block of the king with your sidearm.
(Of course, it also used to be that no free man would ever be put in irons and forced to work for the state. Isn't progress great?)
Of course they can legally create a gun free zone on their private property... even though it was built with public funds. Legality isn't the issue at hand.
The issue is if the GOP leadership and front runners being hypocrites for choosing such a venue and/or not pressuring the USSS and Arena to temporarily change their rules.
It's not agency rules. Title 18 USC and 3056(A) is pretty enabling when it comes to security. Which is why everyone in USSS that's a a gun carrier is sworn LE.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
It's not agency rules. Title 18 USC and 3056(A) is pretty enabling when it comes to security. Which is why everyone in USSS that's a a gun carrier is sworn LE.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
It is their rules.
"Title 18 United States Code Sections 3056 and 1752 provides the Secret Service authority to preclude firearms from entering sites visited by our protectees, including those located in open-carry states," Secret Service spokesman Robert K. Hoback said in a statement.
He doesn't say he's required by law to preclude firearms from sites visited by their protectees. He said he has the authority to do so.
So their rules remove firearms.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-28-16, 19:19
I don't agree with this point. Exercising basic range safety in an area where you are invited and encouraged to keep and bear arms is not even in the same ball bark as telling someone they must walk around unarmed in a crowded public place. This was not the logic Koshinn was using. Your logic is decidedly different.
I agree with the private venue being able to enforce their own rules here, BUT… we are talking about a very public place here. The public can't enter your house against your will. The public is free to come and go from the RNC. This is a slippery slope in my view.
My other point here is that whether it is allowed, or not, but the venue, I still find it hypocritical that the Pro 2A party would say no guns here, while advocating for guns most everywhere else.
What constitutes a "private venue"? Doesn't seem very private if thousands of people are invited to walk in off the street.
I'm okay with a privately owned bakery refusing to serve a customer whose life choices they don't approve of, but I am less okay with a privately owned public venue infringing upon constitutionally protected rights.
To me, it is not about what they can legally get away with in this day and age, it is about what is right and wrong. Sure I have the option of staying home is I don't like the rules of the venue, but should they be deciding things like this?
You know you just can't walk in off the street to events like this? You say that a few times in your post. This isn't a free concert in the park.
Linebacker
03-28-16, 19:35
I read where the GOP is spending $50M for security. I would feel safe there. I don't necessarily need a firearm for personal defense anyway.
I get private property rights, but FL does it right and OH fails. A sign should not make you a criminal. If it's concealed, it shouldn't matter.
By this logic, you should be able to put up a no protest sign at ralleys, and if someone protests, they get a criminal trespassing charge.
I get private property rights, but FL does it right and OH fails. A sign should not make you a criminal. If it's concealed, it shouldn't matter.
By this logic, you should be able to put up a no protest sign at ralleys, and if someone protests, they get a criminal trespassing charge.
Exactly. Can you imagine the outcry if Someone placed a "Muslim free zone", "Jewish free zone" or "Christian free zone" sign at a business, school or govt building?
Yet, 2A gets thrown under the buss ALL the time and it's just fine. We've allowed it to become a second class right- IE not a right at all.
So who do I sue if I put up a no trespass sign and get burglarized?
For every fat mall ninja who gets shaken down for carrying a gun to the mall there are several hoodrats in saggy pants with a gun on them going unchecked simply because they don't OC
I think it is pretty damn stupid really to have Joe Taxpayer pay 100 dollars every so often for a permission slip while Quaderrius and Ma'keyshawn just tote a gun until they get caught.
IF they get caught...
So who do I sue if I put up a no trespass sign and get burglarized?
For every fat mall ninja who gets shaken down for carrying a gun to the mall there are several hoodrats in saggy pants with a gun on them going unchecked simply because they don't OC
I think it is pretty damn stupid really to have Joe Taxpayer pay 100 dollars every so often for a permission slip while Quaderrius and Ma'keyshawn just tote a gun until they get caught.
IF they get caught...
It's stupid for so many reasons- the biggest being turning a Right into a permission.
It is their rules.
He doesn't say he's required by law to preclude firearms from sites visited by their protectees. He said he has the authority to do so.
So their rules remove firearms.
That's what I said. It's written into federal law and it's not on just some agency letterhead.
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You know you just can't walk in off the street to events like this? You say that a few times in your post. This isn't a free concert in the park.
No I did not know. I've never been to one. Please correct my ignorance. Is it invitation only?
How do all the anti-Trump people keep getting in if its not open to the public?
No I did not know. I've never been to one. Please correct my ignorance. Is it invitation only?
How do all the anti-Trump people keep getting in if its not open to the public?
Both the RNC and DNC are completely different from a candidate rally to raise funds.
FlyingHunter
03-28-16, 20:59
I think it is pretty damn stupid really to have Joe Taxpayer pay 100 dollars every so often for a permission slip while Quaderrius and Ma'keyshawn just tote a gun until they get caught.
IF they get caught...
You're close on the names...from Atlanta news just this past week:
The Richmond County Sheriff’s Office has identified nine people arrested and one person wanted in connection with a massive street brawl in east Georgia that left an 18-year-old dead. Top row, from left to right: Eyvete Byrd, A’Lexis Cain and Eddie Doneal Carter III. Second row, from left to right: Myah Dunbar, Demetrius Lamont Harris, Jr. and Quiasha Henley. Bottom row, from left to right: Quinana Henly, Raheem Jobes and Tyleanna Thomas. (Credit: Richmond County Sheriff’s Office)
And from the week prior:
Police are reporting that Trentavious White, known to the rap world under the names Yung Fresh and Bankroll Fresh, has died after a shooting incident in Atlanta. Fresh was shot outside Street Execs Studios on Friday night; police have reportedly recovered more than 50 bullet casings from the scene.
So is the "we should be able to carry guns everywhere" crowd cool with infringing on private property rights?
...just wondering.
This may be a serious thread drift, but to what private property rights are we referring to? I am 100% open to the idea that I an just not knowledgable in this arena. So are we referring to the right of a property owner to run his property as he deems fit, unless he just doesnt want to use his time, resources and private property to make a gay wedding cake? Or is it the same property rights that force acceptance of all races, religions, sexes... without asking the property owner if he wants those folks there. Or are we talking about the right of a property owner to do as he wills on his prperty... so long as the HOA approves of what he is doing? Or maybe we are talking about some other property right that is a bit more serious than what Ive experienced? Also where is this mystery randomly violate-able right enumerated or is it some implied right? I am aware of what the 2A sais, but not what the property right is.
Hyperbole aside, this petition is as retarded as asking the Fed gov to balance the budget or give back all the $$ right now.
Moose-Knuckle
03-29-16, 01:48
Quicken Loans Arena says no guns, Secret Service says no guns. It's not going to happen no matter what Trump, Cruz, or Kasich say.
You saved me some typing Doc.
I also have no idea what the city of Cleveland and the stat of Ohio CCW regs are regarding stadiums and political events.
Honest question. Have guns ever been allowed in a political national convention?
Seems to me the Secret Service would never allow that to happen. Hell I know a guy who was asked to leave a public restaurant during lunch because Bill Clinton was going to make an unannounced appearance there. The SS has no problem asking paying customers to GTFO.
Moose-Knuckle
03-29-16, 03:48
Honest question. Have guns ever been allowed in a political national convention?
Seems to me the Secret Service would never allow that to happen. Hell I know a guy who was asked to leave a public restaurant during lunch because Bill Clinton was going to make an unannounced appearance there. The SS has no problem asking paying customers to GTFO.
I don't know who is behind the petition for this, on one hand it could be Republican voters who are concerned with the threats of violence at the convention or on the other it could be someone from the other side of the aisle attempting to paint the GOP candidates with an anti-2nd stigma.
IMHO it's a non-issue.
The petition was generated by a bullshit open-carry group, Americans for Responsible Open Carry, as another open carry stunt. Carry your guns as a political statement, like slinging your AR15 when you go to get coffee at Starbucks, but with higher stakes and higher profile. And just as stupid, just as counterproductive to protection of the 2nd Amendment.
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platoonDaddy
03-29-16, 06:17
There is no way the USSS would ever allow firearms into the event, BS petition. Our range is about three miles from Bowie State and when POTUS visited, our range was shut down.
Figured there would be plenty of info on this on an Ohio forum I'm a member of. This petition is on Change.org I guess?
Surprising source of GOP convention guns petition....about the guy who started it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surprising-source-of-gop-convention-guns-petition/
Jim is a self-described liberal Democrat who intends to vote for Hillary Clinton should she become the Democratic nominee. He isn't affiliated with a campaign or any advocacy group, but did some volunteer work on Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign. Jim is no fan of guns and he's "pretty passionate" about his activism, he says.
Both the RNC and DNC are completely different from a candidate rally to raise funds.
Roger that. So are these big National Conventions invitation only, private affairs?
Figured there would be plenty of info on this on an Ohio forum I'm a member of. This petition is on Change.org I guess?
Surprising source of GOP convention guns petition....about the guy who started it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surprising-source-of-gop-convention-guns-petition/
Interesting. Very telling. At least a couple of people on this thread called this one...
Roger that. So are these big National Conventions invitation only, private affairs?
I can not speak from personal experience but I would imagine it is the big money donors, lobbyists friends and family of people in the party, etc,. I doubt Joe Sixpack in Cleveland can just walk on in and join in on the fun.
My uncle that is upper management at an insurance company here in Florida has done a lot of lobbying at the state house and been to some of the state level republican functions and that's what he told me they were like so I would imagine the national stuff is the same just with more money involved.
Figured there would be plenty of info on this on an Ohio forum I'm a member of. This petition is on Change.org I guess?
Surprising source of GOP convention guns petition....about the guy who started it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surprising-source-of-gop-convention-guns-petition/
A troll then. And it worked well.
Interesting. Very telling. At least a couple of people on this thread called this one...
It's actually kind of obvious.
But the issue isn't who created the petition or the intent behind it. Don't make the discussion about the person, make it about the idea, as you should always do when debating anything. I don't care one bit about the actual petition. I don't even like open carry.
The issue is still:
The two front runners in the GOP have stated publicly their belief that armed citizens make places safer, or alternatively that gun-free zones are the equivalent of shooting galleries.
The RNC is a gun-free zone (with the understanding that, like all gun-free zones, at least some law enforcement is still armed).
Is the RNC now a shooting gallery? Should the two GOP front runners be taking a stand against this, even if the USSS won't budge, or are they hypocrites that actually believe that only law enforcement should be armed when their own safety is in question?
I have no desire to save anyone's prince or be anyone who I am not. I have a very strong interest in self-preservation, and protecting my loved ones. I can't say that I would not intervene to help a child or old lady who was under attack if need be, but that is not the goal when I carry, and taking down the bad guys would not be my goal at an RNC either.
We can leave the cowboy crap to the imagination of all the lefties, where it belongs.
This entered my mind, there will obviously be a lot of security in place, folks will be checked, etc.
So, if given that level of security, you feel you can't ensure your families security without a weapon, maybe you shouldn't attend.
I don't take my family places where I think I will 'need' a weapon for security, it is insurance, it is not a license to go where I normally wouldn't go.
In this case I think the bases will be covered in terms of dealing with a firearm threat. Myself, I'd be more concerned about an explosive device.
People can bitch and moan all they want but with the Secret Service hanging around, you'll get the candidates in the room or you'll get to carry but not both. Sometimes you just gotta be a realist....
Myself, I'd be more concerned about an explosive device.
I wouldn't. They will have bomb sniffing dogs all over that place before and during the event and all persons and bags will be checked. Any deliveries to the arena will be made well in advance of the event and all unauthorized vehicles will be rerouted a couple of blocks away.
The petition was generated by a bullshit open-carry group, Americans for Responsible Open Carry, as another open carry stunt. Carry your guns as a political statement, like slinging your AR15 when you go to get coffee at Starbucks, but with higher stakes and higher profile. And just as stupid, just as counterproductive to protection of the 2nd Amendment.
.
Perfect. Exactly what was missing. Swear to god it's like going to a "Libertarians to Restore America" meeting and the only issue they care about is "legal weed."
Can we get NAMBLA to make an appearance at the DNC? Seems with all the trans issues they should show up demanding to be labelled "trans children", you know...like Peter Pan.
Figured there would be plenty of info on this on an Ohio forum I'm a member of. This petition is on Change.org I guess?
Surprising source of GOP convention guns petition....about the guy who started it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surprising-source-of-gop-convention-guns-petition/
The plot thickens.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-29-16, 15:38
It's actually kind of obvious.
But the issue isn't who created the petition or the intent behind it. Don't make the discussion about the person, make it about the idea, as you should always do when debating anything. I don't care one bit about the actual petition. I don't even like open carry.
The issue is still:
The two front runners in the GOP have stated publicly their belief that armed citizens make places safer, or alternatively that gun-free zones are the equivalent of shooting galleries.
The RNC is a gun-free zone (with the understanding that, like all gun-free zones, at least some law enforcement is still armed).
Is the RNC now a shooting gallery? Should the two GOP front runners be taking a stand against this, even if the USSS won't budge, or are they hypocrites that actually believe that only law enforcement should be armed when their own safety is in question?
This is not a gun free zone. There will be more guns there per square meter than pretty much anyplace but Smith and Wesson's shipping dock.
A Gun Free Zone, in the relation this conversation, is where people use a sign to provide security. That is not what is happening in this instance.
The question isn't should we be able to carry a gun in a gun free zone, it is should we be able to carry a gun in probably the most secure building in the US at that time?
You are conflating two issues.
As 26INF states, if with this level of security, you think you need a sidearm, you really shouldn't be going.
Of course, there will always be the asshats that insist on bringing their own steak knives when they go to Morton's.
The question is if you are more safe with the security provided or by outsourcing it to the crowd. KNOWING that this is already a false flag operation from the left, they will be infiltrating the hall and doing their normal BS, this time with a gun instead of placard. (NON)-Hilarity ensues as the MSM comes out and tells people this is what America would look like if the GOP were in charge.
I'm 1:1 on the genesis of the petition, and I'll be 2:2 if this goes further.
So if there are a lot more police, we don't need to be carrying guns. Got it.
titsonritz
03-29-16, 16:27
Quicken Loans Arena says no guns, Secret Service says no guns. It's not going to happen no matter what Trump, Cruz, or Kasich say.
Exactly right. In fact the QL Arena prohibits weapons of any type no just firearms.
So if there are a lot more police, we don't need to be carrying guns. Got it.
Way to go, Marine. :cool:
The Second Ammendment will die the death of a thousand cuts.
Here is a quote from a member of Gabby Giffords' new anti-gun group.
"sometimes it's like water on a rock, and you have to continue working and working at it all the time." Rabbi Gary Creditor
Have any of you guys read the part where this petition is from a liberal Democrat who is voting for Clinton and trying the shake up the "pro gun" stance of GOP nominees?
Have any of you guys read the part where this petition is from a liberal Democrat who is voting for Clinton and trying the shake up the "pro gun" stance of GOP nominees?
I haven't read it. I would almost think it was just a continuation of Trumps' statement of there might be riots. You know it could be a Dem thing or it could be a Trump thing. If the GOP tries to pull a fast one they want guns inside... or so someone might want the GOP to believe. It sounds kinda dumb either way.
I don't know any venue indoors or out that allows weapons through the gate... or any that have for ages. It's as though this petition was a statement and for it to be a Dem statement it's a loser because all Trump and Cruz have to say is hell yeah, knowing they can't do it anyway.
Although it would be funny as hell to see Cruz strut out there with spurs and a couple of six shooters. Now what would Trump bring to a gunfight? ... Minigun operated by his ex-Mil friends and the local Boy Scout Troupe covering with suppressed SBR ARs? or simply a chrome .45 in a shoulder holster? Kasich will have his stun stick because his father was a mailman. Jeb will have an AK given to him by an illegal. Romney?... shotgun!!... sorry Mitt, get in the back seat.
Hard to say who's idea this really was. I honestly don't understand who it would serve or dis-serve.
I haven't read it. I would almost think it was just a continuation of Trumps' statement of there might be riots. You know it could be a Dem thing or it could be a Trump thing. If the GOP tries to pull a fast one they want guns inside... or so someone might want the GOP to believe. It sounds kinda dumb either way.
I don't know any venue indoors or out that allows weapons through the gate... or any that have for ages. It's as though this petition was a statement and for it to be a Dem statement it's a loser because all Trump and Cruz have to say is hell yeah, knowing they can't do it anyway.
Although it would be funny as hell to see Cruz strut out there with spurs and a couple of six shooters. Now what would Trump bring to a gunfight? ... Minigun operated by his ex-Mil friends and the local Boy Scout Troupe covering with suppressed SBR ARs? or simply a chrome .45 in a shoulder holster? Kasich will have his stun stick because his father was a mailman. Jeb will have an AK given to him by an illegal. Romney?... shotgun!!... sorry Mitt, get in the back seat.
Hard to say who's idea this really was. I honestly don't understand who it would serve or dis-serve.
This was posted earlier, we know for a fact exactly who did what.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surprising-source-of-gop-convention-guns-petition/
Ooooh... ok.
He balked at the suggestion he was an Internet troll, arguing the petition is a genuine political statement.
Well, I really don't know what to think now. I mean I have never, ever, seen an Internet troll be confronted and not simply admit that indeed they are trolling. I mean, if he says he's not a troll.....
A friggin' troll. That actually makes sense now. What happened to the good ole' days when trolling carried with it some lengthy drawn out ordeal. Yeah, they just don't make 'em like they used to.
I think what he meant was he sucks at being an Internet troll.
This entered my mind, there will obviously be a lot of security in place, folks will be checked, etc.
So, if given that level of security, you feel you can't ensure your families security without a weapon, maybe you shouldn't attend.
I don't take my family places where I think I will 'need' a weapon for security, it is insurance, it is not a license to go where I normally wouldn't go.
In this case I think the bases will be covered in terms of dealing with a firearm threat. Myself, I'd be more concerned about an explosive device.
Do you also sometimes get rid of the fire extinguishers in your house since its raining outside and you aren't planning on having a fire?
Nobody knows when they will need their gun. I think most anyone reading this will also avoid any situation where they genuinely believe they will need a gun.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-29-16, 22:25
Do you also sometimes get rid of the fire extinguishers in your house since its raining outside and you aren't planning on having a fire.
I might if my house were filled with fireman, undercover fireman, guys in the attic with fire hoses, more guys outside with fire hoses and a couple of those wildfire tankers on call.
Honest question. Have guns ever been allowed in a political national convention?
No. Guns have always been banned. Even cops cannot carry unless cleared. LEOSA might have changed that, not sure if there are new rules for that.
I was a Fed at an embassy when PRESUS came to visit, he had an event for staff and they told us not to show up armed, and I worked security for the overall visit.
No. Guns have always been banned. Even cops cannot carry unless cleared. LEOSA might have changed that, not sure if there are new rules for that.
I was a Fed at an embassy when PRESUS came to visit, he had an event for staff and they told us not to show up armed, and I worked security for the overall visit.
That's what I thought.
Sadly this was an easy troll for a leftist activist and he even managed to get the Open Carry crowd blamed.
Moose-Knuckle
03-30-16, 01:28
Figured there would be plenty of info on this on an Ohio forum I'm a member of. This petition is on Change.org I guess?
Surprising source of GOP convention guns petition....about the guy who started it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surprising-source-of-gop-convention-guns-petition/
Jim is a self-described liberal Democrat who intends to vote for Hillary Clinton should she become the Democratic nominee. He isn't affiliated with a campaign or any advocacy group, but did some volunteer work on Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign. Jim is no fan of guns and he's "pretty passionate" about his activism, he says.
Hah, called it.
No. Guns have always been banned. Even cops cannot carry unless cleared. LEOSA might have changed that, not sure if there are new rules for that.
I was a Fed at an embassy when PRESUS came to visit, he had an event for staff and they told us not to show up armed, and I worked security for the overall visit.
LEOSA hasn't changed anything. Only non USSS gun carriers authorized are those assisting with security in a professional capacity.
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BuzzinSATX
03-30-16, 09:18
To play this out, suppose the rules are changed and the do let folks carry guns (open or concealed) to the convention.
Then suppose some POS jihadi decides to go in and, in the middle of the crowded convention hall, pulls out his gun and starts randomly shooting people.
So what would happen next? I think anyone who is carrying who pulls their own firearm
and is NOT recognizable to the Secret Service would immediately become a target and collateral damage.
Just a bad idea IMO...
Take Care,
Buzz
Averageman
03-30-16, 09:45
Bad Idea.
I've watched the "Pushed to the ground video" God help us if one of "these" reporters play the same stupid games with someone armed in a convention hall.
Hillary would be sitting at home having some fun with that.
That's what I thought.
Sadly this was an easy troll for a leftist activist and he even managed to get the Open Carry crowd blamed.
And got at least a few of the M4C faithful worked up as well. It was a brilliant troll, and it worked brilliantly. I gotta give the guy credit.
Seriously, open or concealed carry at the RNC is a practical or desirable idea? Or, to more than half the country, does it make republicans look more like the "god and guns" redneck buffoons that Obama purported a couple of years ago?
Dumb, dumb. dumb. And counterproductive. A great way to further fracture an already-fractured political party.
.
Do you also sometimes get rid of the fire extinguishers in your house since its raining outside and you aren't planning on having a fire?
Nobody knows when they will need their gun. I think most anyone reading this will also avoid any situation where they genuinely believe they will need a gun.
You missed this part - it is insurance, it is not a license to go where I normally wouldn't go. So going on the fire extinguisher analogy you used, they are insurance, not an excuse to not fix the wiring.
To play this out, suppose the rules are changed and the do let folks carry guns (open or concealed) to the convention.
Then suppose some POS jihadi decides to go in and, in the middle of the crowded convention hall, pulls out his gun and starts randomly shooting people.
So what would happen next? I think anyone who is carrying who pulls their own firearm
and is NOT recognizable to the Secret Service would immediately become a target and collateral damage.
Just a bad idea IMO...
Take Care,
Buzz
That's the argument used against concealed and open carry in any situation.
Reading threads like this just reminds me that most "gun guys" who claim to be FOR our rights, are really just dudes who like their guns and don't really care about RIGHTS at all.
I've seen so many arguments utilized by Anti-gunners in this thread, it would be laughable if it wasn't M4C and so painful to see you guys self destruct on your rights due to "safety".
And we wonder why we keep losing ground on our rights across the board. No one knows what REAL freedom is anymore; and when they see it or read about it they are scared of it or degrade it; you all just know the version of what you want, like or are comfortable with whilst believing in some false sense of safety that you will never truly be provided.
It's almost like slaves clanking their chains together and saying- see I'm safe because of this. Its pretty pathetic.
BuzzinSATX
03-30-16, 11:45
That's the argument used against concealed and open carry in any situation.
I suppose, but it actually applies and is valid in this situation. Everyone knows secret service will be running the show and there will be a huge security presence already.
That is not the same as your local Walmart, suburban shopping mall, public park, college campus, et al....
Some info on the RNC for those that care to be informed.
https://www.2016cle.com/faq
Q: Can I get tickets to the Convention?
The Republican National Convention is not open to the public. Political conventions are for delegates from each state and U.S. territories. The delegates are elected officials from the party and others who have achieved rank within the party organization. If you have any additional questions, please visit www.gop.com.
Security
Q: What is the security zone? When will we know what the security zone is?
The 2016 Republican National Convention is designated as a National Special Security Event (NSSE) given its high profile and size. Other National Special Security Events include presidential inaugurations, State of the Union speeches, the Super Bowl – and even some NASCAR races.
With the NSSE designation, the Secret Service and other federal agencies will lead the effort to help ensure the safety and security of those participating in or otherwise attending the Convention as well as the community within which the event takes place. Part of this safety effort will likely include a security perimeter around Quicken Loans Arena which can only be accessed with a specific credential.
This perimeter, commonly referred to as the “security zone,” won’t be defined by the Secret Service until very close to the Convention.
Q: If I work downtown, how I will I access my worksite?
The details regarding the security zone perimeter will not be known until just before the Convention. Because of that, we’re not yet able to provide detailed information about how to access specific offices or establishments, but as more is known, updates will be provided.
Q: If I live downtown, how will my ability to access my apartment be affected?
The details regarding the security zone perimeter will not be known until just before the Convention. Because of that, we’re not yet able to provide detailed information about how to access specific residences in downtown. As more information is available, updates will be provided.
Q: What is the City of Cleveland doing to make sure our police forces are appropriately trained and prepared to protect with this influx of visitors to NEO?
The Cleveland Police and Cuyahoga County Sheriff’s Department are working closely with state and federal authorities to ensure the safety of our residents and visitors. Local safety forces, working with the Secret Service, will be developing the security plan over the course of the next year, and, upon completion, businesses and residents in downtown Cleveland as well as all of the residents of Cuyahoga County and Northeast Ohio will be updated.
Reading threads like this just reminds me that most "gun guys" who claim to be FOR our rights, are really just dudes who like their guns and don't really care about RIGHTS at all.
I've seen so many arguments utilized by Anti-gunners in this thread, it would be laughable if it wasn't M4C and so painful to see you guys self destruct on your rights due to "safety".
And we wonder why we keep losing ground on our rights across the board. No one knows what REAL freedom is anymore; and when they see it or read about it they are scared of it or degrade it; you all just know the version of what you want, like or are comfortable with whilst believing in some false sense of safety that you will never truly be provided.
It's almost like slaves clanking their chains together and saying- see I'm safe because of this. Its pretty pathetic.
You're gonna want to go back a couple pages and check a link.
brickboy240
03-30-16, 13:51
Was this issue ever brought up at previous conventions?
Not too long ago, didn't the RNC have its convention in NYC? I am pretty sure nobody carried guns there. I don't recall this coming up at all.
...just wondering.
SilverBullet432
03-30-16, 16:54
One of my coworkers buddies planned some bombing at one of the RNCs in 08 I think. Theres a netflix documentary on it lol.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-30-16, 21:38
If you OC'd or CCW'd it on the plane to get to CLE, go ahead and carry at the convention.
If you OC'd or CCW'd it on the plane to get to CLE, go ahead and carry at the convention.
Not sure if serious
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FromMyColdDeadHand
03-31-16, 21:09
If you OC'd or CCW'd it on the plane to get to CLE, go ahead and carry at the convention.
Not sure if serious
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There are a lot of places that we aren't allowed to carry guns due to the risk being higher than any possible reward. Where crazies and monsters can get the the attention that they crave. This is another one of those situations- a unicorn, leap-year of situations that comes up once every four years in one building- where none of us are invited anyways.
People without the ability to understand that really concern me.
Terrorists with the knowledge that all they need is a carry permit to get weapons into one of the two largest political gatherings in America is a guaranteed shit show.
No thanks.
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Voodoochild
04-01-16, 13:21
All it would take is one fudd to have an ND/AD and it would be chaos. That many people with guns and someone pops one off accidentally or otherwise would set off a chain of events that would be catastrophic for gun owners. It would give the Anti 2A crowd all the ammo they would need to push the hate even further.
Can you imagine the headlines...
All it would take is one fudd to have an ND/AD and it would be chaos. That many people with guns and someone pops one off accidentally or otherwise would set off a chain of events that would be catastrophic for gun owners. It would give the Anti 2A crowd all the ammo they would need to push the hate even further.
Can you imagine the headlines...
So all crowded gatherings of people should ban armed civilians?
Primus Pilum
04-01-16, 13:56
So all crowded gatherings of people should ban armed civilians?
Not sure how you can compare something as high profile as a National Security Event with all "crowded gatherings".
We are better than that.
Voodoochild
04-02-16, 15:52
So all crowded gatherings of people should ban armed civilians?
Did I say that? No I did not so don't try to spin my comment. As large a gathering as the RNC will be and as many people who will more than likely be there protesting last thing you want is something to go wrong.
Primus Pilum
04-03-16, 11:03
Exactly. Nothing would be worse from 2A rights and laws than some fringe loon on either end wacking a candidate on live TV.
It is all risk with no reward. The absolutists need to realize this.
Linebacker
04-03-16, 11:32
This is the dumbest thread ever. Let's introduce cictizen firearms into the most secured venue in the world, why? Paranoia will destroy ya.
I'm seriously glad this thread has turned to the consensus of how allowing weapons into something like this is ludicrous. I was concerned about the responses at first, I mean have you seen the type of people that go to Trump rallies? All I can picture is the OC crowd coming out en masse, and the opportunity for someone trying to get themselves the attention they never got in high school by dong something stupid.
Thankfully, we in America still have the right to go where we wish. If a place doesn't allow guns, that's their right to disallow it and my right to not support the business. Though not a business, I can't see how allowing guns at something like the RNC is not an extremely unnecessary security risk.
All it would take is one fudd to have an ND/AD and it would be chaos. That many people with guns and someone pops one off accidentally or otherwise would set off a chain of events that would be catastrophic for gun owners. It would give the Anti 2A crowd all the ammo they would need to push the hate even further.
Can you imagine the headlines...
Or one standard "crazy ass liberal" to shoot somebody.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-03-16, 19:16
Or one standard "crazy ass liberal" to shoot somebody.
Again.
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