View Full Version : Are cops arrest happy these days?
thepatriot2705
04-08-16, 00:36
This thread is not to rag on LEO.
I am starting this thread to see if stories ive heard are true.
I hear a lot of older people saying they got away with so much as a kid. Things that would get them arrested today.
What happened to cops just taking kids back to their parents or giving them a stern talking to?
I don't think they are "arrest happy" but the victims are demanding "justice", meaning an arrest. It is a direct reflection of what the public wants.
This thread is not to rag on LEO.
I am starting this thread to see if stories ive heard are true.
I hear a lot of older people saying they got away with so much as a kid. Things that would get them arrested today.
What happened to cops just taking kids back to their parents or giving them a stern talking to?
It certainly seems that way, but I did stuff as a kid that would probably get me into hot water with the law. Nothing bad, just mischievousness. I think the police are more incentivized to arrest more, and give more tickets, etc for financial reasons. Our justice system is not about justice, it is about money. They want to get you in the system and once they do its fees, fees, and more fees for everyone, and the police want to show arrest numbers so they have an argument for increased budgets. I don't think its necessary the cop, but their upper management and leadership telling them they need numbers.
Just a guess, but it seems that way. Government wants to keep growing.
Keep in mind that with cameras everywhere, including in patrol cars and officer body cams, everyone wants to MMQB decisions that each officer makes. That's powerful incentive to "do it by the book". If the agency SOP allows certain offenses to be officer discretion on whether to take a report, cite or arrest, I doubt there's any more inclination to arrest than there was 30 years ago. The biggest factor then will be offender attitude.
If it's not codified, well, we get the policing we deserve.
thepatriot2705
04-08-16, 01:00
It certainly seems that way, but I did stuff as a kid that would probably get me into hot water with the law. Nothing bad, just mischievousness. I think the police are more incentivized to arrest more, and give more tickets, etc for financial reasons. Our justice system is not about justice, it is about money. They want to get you in the system and once they do its fees, fees, and more fees for everyone, and the police want to show arrest numbers so they have an argument for increased budgets. I don't think its necessary the cop, but their upper management and leadership telling them they need numbers.
Just a guess, but it seems that way. Government wants to keep growing.
This....our justice system is a crock of crap...all about the money....
My problem is how serious a minor, victimless "crime" can screw with someone's life. Public intox? give the person a fine. I see no reason why victimless crimes of that nature should have to have an arrest record...and besides, i think everyone on this board can agree that there are real criminals who need dealing with..
Quite the opposite.
For awhile we had a Sheriff who flat out told his deputies to NOT start a case number unless they had to. Most departments do their best to under report crime so it looks like they have everything under control.
Down here you really need to go far out of your way to actually get arrested.
Leaveammoforme
04-08-16, 03:06
This....our justice system is a crock of crap...all about the money....
My problem is how serious a minor, victimless "crime" can screw with someone's life. Public intox? give the person a fine. I see no reason why victimless crimes of that nature should have to have an arrest record...and besides, i think everyone on this board can agree that there are real criminals who need dealing with..
I wouldn't say a PI is victimless. The fuzz are protecting a person from themselves. They don't want your drunk butt wandering off in traffic or tripping and smashing your noggin on the curb. The fact that a person is in public sloppy drunk already shows a failure in decision making.
I really sucked at decision making when I drank. Like really sucked. Reason #942 that I don't drink anymore. Bonus side effect is I can never be convicted of an alcohol related offense. Simple.
Unless of course it goes down like "Your eyes are red, your speech slurred & I hate your haircut, here's a PI".
If a person is constantly having interactions with Police, they need to change some habits.
There is a NAPO survey that states that 60% of new officers have very little higher education, (High School Degree with some college, 1-3 semesters) or 4 years of military service with out having exceeded the rank of PFC E3,(typical for 4 year army vet). The NAPO review in 2015 found that more and more policeman showed behavioral signs of dominance, aggression, superiority and characteristics like agitation, low patience, irritable and overall temperamental (Hot Headed). I learned the other day from a Police Chief from another city who I go to church with said that there has been a 30% increase in new police officers with domestic violence, aggravated assault and harassment charges on there records in large cities. I had this conversation because a friend of mine, a police officer at his police department was pulled off the street with 36 other policeman and put into "social outreach", which is managing the PD's facebook, twitter, Instagram, public relations, hanging around public buildings and assisting road maintenance crews. The chief told me the political climate had changed in the last few years and he gets his orders from city counsel. They view police officers who don't write 100 tickets a day as "weak", and "not fit for the job".
I have a theory that a lot of "special forces and military personnel" came back from Iraq and Afghanistan and started consulting companies and were teaching law enforcement how to conduct themselves in there duties. All the information the police are learning is from men who dealt with insurgents and terrorist and that mentality is being used on Americans. My friend the Police Chief hired Chris Kyles company for a 4 day seminar on that type of stuff.
Around here that's a big negative. We are already short-handed on the streets so taking someone in for minor offenses just screws your squad over. Sometimes circumstances obviously warrant an arrest.
In the Academy here we have classes on enforcing the "spirit of the law" and not the "letter of the law". Basically it comes down to what is the law really about and just because a situation fits the text of it doesn't mean it fits the meaning.
I do very little traffic enforcement. I probably don't write a citation on 95 percent of my traffic stops. But really even if I wanted to we are normally so busy with calls that I wouldn't have time to. Outside of dangerous situations, ie drunk driver, wrong way driver, etc..., the calls for service are higher priority than traffic. If I spent all day doing traffic enforcement I would probably get a sit down with the boss telling me I need to answer radio calls more.
Also I have a lot of coworkers who are veterans. None of them treat US citizens like insurgents or terrorists. In fact most of the veteran guys are very pro constitution and 2A rights. In my eyes most of the bullshit comes from the old ass guys who havent changed with the times or are more worried about politics than policing. Our recently fired chief, who came from Dallas by the way, was one of those guys. He was super pissed that the cities citizen review board had the authority to override his decisions. He believed that since he was chief that he should have complete control and final say over what happened in the department.
It may be a geography thing. I live in a western suburb of Philly. Very safe area, semi rural. However, there seem to be police everywhere. every little municipality has their own police force. I see them everywhere, and they seem to pull a lot of people, and go on fishing expeditions using small infractions.
It certainly seems that way, but I did stuff as a kid that would probably get me into hot water with the law. Nothing bad, just mischievousness. I think the police are more incentivized to arrest more, and give more tickets, etc for financial reasons. Our justice system is not about justice, it is about money. They want to get you in the system and once they do its fees, fees, and more fees for everyone, and the police want to show arrest numbers so they have an argument for increased budgets. I don't think its necessary the cop, but their upper management and leadership telling them they need numbers.
Just a guess, but it seems that way. Government wants to keep growing.
Hell ya, I work off commission! Oh wait, no I dont....plus the fines related to probably all misdemeanors don't come close to covering jail costs, court cost, the time I wasted on some drunk moron that refused to go to detox instead of jail....but hey Im probably wrong.
P.s. I hate paperwork, as do most people, if you get arrested for a petty crime you're either a habitual turd or you talked yourself into cuffs. If I have pc to arrest but someone isn't a career criminal, the offense won't continue after I leave, and the suspect is screaming at me about me doing my job, they'll probably be cited and released.
Oh ya and if you live in a high drug area, use your turn signals, make sure all of your lights work...including license plate light, and come to a complete stop. Believe it or not most dopers don't drive around with a sign stating their habits nor do they hang their prized dope out the window for the world to see.
Averageman
04-08-16, 06:48
I wouldn't say a PI is victimless.
If a person is constantly having interactions with Police, they need to change some habits.
My Step Daughter got a DUI.
Now please bear in mind, this wasn't the first time I had caught her drinking and driving. I actually pulled three traffic cones out of her wheel well one Sunday morning when I went out for the paper.
She stopped after work and had what She said was two Margarita's on the way home and at 4'10" and 85 lbs that was all it took. The caught her right in the parking lot.
So my Ex freaks out goes and gets the best DUI Attorney in Austin and where is my Step Daughter the day She is supposed to show up for her hearing?
She got a PI the afternoon before while floating down the Guadalupe. You know She had an interaction with a LEO and just wouldn't STFU, so away She went and yes, She had been drinking.
I think my "Told You So" might have been the start of that divorce.
She was bound to have an accident had She not reached the point where She finally got some help. I'm thankful that they took her in for the PI. I don't know where She would be if they had not.
Hell ya, I work off commission! Oh wait, no I dont....plus the fines related to probably all misdemeanors don't come close to covering jail costs, court cost, the time I wasted on some drunk moron that refused to go to detox instead of jail....but hey Im probably wrong.
P.s. I hate paperwork, as do most people, if you get arrested for a petty crime you're either a habitual turd or you talked yourself into cuffs. If I have pc to arrest but someone isn't a career criminal, the offense won't continue after I leave, and the suspect is screaming at me about me doing my job, they'll probably be cited and released.
Oh ya and if you live in a high drug area, use your turn signals, make sure all of your lights work...including license plate light, and come to a complete stop. Believe it or not most dopers don't drive around with a sign stating their habits nor do they hang their prized dope out the window for the world to see.
That's good info, and advice. Thanks. You see it from the inside, fortunately I don't.
I've had one ticket...as a juvenile. Zero since an adult.
I have run into a LEO that was disrespectful ONE time, as I apparently fit the description of someone they were looking for. After another unit found the actual suspect, and after this particular officer saw my record was pristine, he apologized profusely. To the point that I started to feel like the asshole.
I've received numerous traffic warnings when I certainly deserved a ticket.
So no...I don't think they are arrest happy.
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I know during my brief time as a deputy in a major west coast Sheriff's department a long time ago, we had different tools to use to try and solve problems. Some of which if done today would put us at risk of jail time and loss of job. Back in the day we risked a day off without pay, for some of the stuff we did.
Without details when I worked street crimes we had a local turd that was a burglar and I mean big time 10 or more a week. The burglary detectives just couldn't get the evidence they needed. So street crimes was put to work on it. We grabbed this guy off the street, didn't hurt him but scared the hell out of him. We didn't see him for like 8 months, then one day in walks in the office in a Navy uniform and thanked us for helping him. He stayed in an was a lifer.
A lot of this is regional. What goes on in part of the country, or even on one side of the street might not be the case on the other. Trying to nail it down to a blanket statement like, "are cops arrest-happy?" is pointless without a clarification as to the locale.
Once that's narrowed down, other factors come into play. Things like policy/SOP, state statutes, previous exposure to IA/litigation/bad things on an individual and department level, department policing model, public input, etc. all play role in whether an officer, team, department or region is more "arrest-happy".
Edited: my post is pretty obvious, and an abbreviation of a much longer post.
My best friend has been passed on a year now from a brain tumor. Anyways, he was a cop in a local college town. He went out of his way to NOT be arrest-happy, knowing that once upon a time, he was a stupid college kid. His view was pretty much the norm for the patrol division of his department.
Arrest happy? No. That fills jails and costs money.
Ticket/citation happy? Hell yes. That generates revenue. Once June hits, at least down here, expect some roadchecks and people getting written up for petty shit like seatbelts and so on.
Money money money. And no matter your defense, some drunk of a traffic judge will still hammer you plus court costs. At least one fat rookie will shout "Driving is a privilege not a right!" to someone coming home on a highway wondering wtf is going on.
Meanwhile, jack shit is accomplished in the high risk, high crime areas. They won't "road check" the hood. Just places where employed people with families drive at commute time
Arrest happy? No. That fills jails and costs money.
Ticket/citation happy? Hell yes. That generates revenue. Once June hits, at least down here, expect some roadchecks and people getting written up for petty shit like seatbelts and so on.
Money money money. And no matter your defense, some drunk of a traffic judge will still hammer you plus court costs. At least one fat rookie will shout "Driving is a privilege not a right!" to someone coming home on a highway wondering wtf is going on.
Meanwhile, jack shit is accomplished in the high risk, high crime areas. They won't "road check" the hood. Just places where employed people with families drive at commute time
You beat me with your post. I work occasional LE in New Mexico with the Sheriff's Mounted Posse doing search and rescue, including hunting fugitives in the back-country, so I have a personal pro-LE bias. That being said, New Mexico has a good sized oil and gas economy, in the SE and NW part of the State. That industry is down with big layoffs, and the State and local municipalities seeing a drop in tax revenue. The State and cities have tried to make up that shortfall with greater traffic enforcement; speed traps using radar and laser.
The biggest complaint with this is a lack of manpower to deal with traditional crimes. A recent incident up in Farmington, New Mexico brought this to light. A guy had his tires slashed at the Sam's Club parking lot, and it took 45 minutes for the PD there to dispatch a car. Yet 1/2 mile away that PD had two motorcycle cops running a radar speed trap. Sam's had security cameras rolling and said they would let the PD look at the recording, but not the victim. When the officer arrived, he said he didn't have time to look at the DVR. You are hearing incidents like this all over the State. Burglary or Damage to private property calls taking more than an hour for PD in towns to show up, yet they are running speed traps.
Another incident in a New Mexico town involved a woman rushing her Aunt to the local hospital's immediate care clinic. The Aunt was having a hard time breathing. The driver was going 40 in a 25 and was stopped by police two blocks from the clinic. She tried to explain the situation about the Aunt's breathing, but the cop wouldn't let her go, insisting on finishing the citation. When the Aunt arrived and was taken in, her O2 level was at 68 and nearly unconscious.
It's becoming apparent that there's no money in traditional law enforcement. It's now about revenue.
brickboy240
04-08-16, 12:09
Around here, cops are pretty much working radar and giving traffic and parking tickets and that is it. They have become defacto tax collectors and not much more.
Not that I blame them, with cameras everywhere and people suing them at the drop of a hat for even looking at them funny. All the racial mess also adds to why they probably are happy just working traffic and not much more. The media and the left have pretty much beaten their image to pieces and turned the public against them.
I honestly do not know how they do it anymore...God bless them.
Think about it from another way, if your seeing a lot of arrests....
In the current climate, try using the discretion you're empowered with then have it backfire even in the most minor way. Liability management both for the officer and department can play a huge rolls in enforcement action.
I live in a Capitol City. The Cops have better shit to do. Never had any issues with them, I do work for quite a few of them, my business is next to their headquarters.
I grew up and often go to higher income rural/semi rural towns in new England. With no to low crime and too much time on their hands they spend 99% of the time issuing speeding tickets. The speed limits have lowered on these roads in the last 15 years, ticketing has gone up. These towns get the newest nicest car every other year it seems. Its taxation, it makes you not like some police.
Primus Pilum
04-08-16, 14:16
Make it so all traffic, court and criminal fine revenue is given to a charity or vet organization or even youth programs instead of back to the local city/county/PD and this problem will solve itself.
Agencies and Courts should not be able to profit from punishments they dole out. Ethically its a massive conflict of interest.
brickboy240
04-08-16, 15:04
They HAVE to write tons of tickets.
Most of the municipalities they work for are completely broke and in dire need of every cent they can get from John Q. Public.
These municipalities are often run by leftists lifetime govt workers that are terrible at managing money. Many also have huge pension obligations and again...really need every cent they can get.
I learned the other day from a Police Chief from another city who I go to church with said that there has been a 30% increase in new police officers with domestic violence, aggravated assault and harassment charges on there records in large cities.
Arrests alone are redflags, if it actually a conviction many states have laws/requirements that eliminate such folks from holding a police job. A conviction for DV pretty much eliminates you from possessing firearms. For LE hiring purposes it doesn't matter if the record is expunged or not, if it was juvenile or not.
Agencies that hire such officers are clownshoes - an officer with a record of any type is easily impeachable in court.
Re this: a friend of mine, a police officer at his police department was pulled off the street with 36 other policeman and put into "social outreach", which is managing the PD's facebook, twitter, Instagram, public relations, hanging around public buildings and assisting road maintenance crews. The chief told me the political climate had changed in the last few years and he gets his orders from city counsel.
Often those are officers who can't be used in cases because the prosecutor can't or won't take their cases. In some cases the officer's conduct hasn't risen to dismissal under agency rules, but the prosecutor just won't use their testimony. So they become the 'badge on the floor' (officer who mans the front desk at a substation, parade duty, or what you described.
Here is an explanation of 'Giglio' -
Giglio v. United States, 405 U.S. 150, 92 S.Ct. 763, 31 L.Ed.2d 104 (1972)
Investigative agencies must turn over to prosecutors, as early as possible in a case, potential impeachment evidence with respect to the agents involved in the case. The prosecutor then exercises his or her discretion as to whether the impeachment evidence must be turned over to the defense. A “Giglio-impaired” agent is one against whom there is potential impeachment evidence that would render the agent's testimony of
marginal value in a case, which means, of course, that a case that depends primarily on the testimony of a Giglio-impaired witness is at risk.
Implications for State and Local Police Departments
Many state and local agencies have similarly begun to disclose to prosecutors any conclusive information regarding untruthfulness, bias, and crimes committed by an officer who is to be a material witness in a criminal prosecution. Once the prosecutor is aware of such information, he or she can decide if the information should be disclosed to the defense attorney.
If the misconduct involves untruthfulness, it is likely to undermine the officer's ability to testify effectively. Agencies have responded to this problem in different ways. Some have adopted strict truthfulness policies and terminate officers who violate them. Other agencies have simply placed officers with impeachment problems in administrative assignments where there is no likelihood of becoming a witness in a criminal case, essentially creating so-called liars squads.
Defense attorneys are using information about untruthful officers to create databases to be used by other defense attorneys. For example, in San Diego, a defense attorney faced with a police witness in a case need only consult a database established by San Diego County Public Defender's Office containing information about local police misconduct and bias. If there is information about that officer being untruthful or in some way biased as a witness, the attorney will attempt to use that information to impeach that officer.
As this trend grows, agencies will be required to deal more forcefully with officers who lie. Departments may choose to adopt strict policies regarding truthfulness and rigorously adhere to those policies. Without taking such steps, agencies set themselves up to employ a portion of their commissioned workforce as administrative employees, unable to investigate crimes and testify regarding their investigations.
Re Veterans: I'm a veteran who started his first police job in 1976, a week after ETSing from the Marines. By and large in today's world, from my point of view, military service doesn't give one a leg up in terms of suitability as a law enforcement officer, beyond someone who has prior work experience.
And I'll be honest, I getting tired of training officers who are vets getting 90-98% disability, and seeing them run, jump, DT with all the other recruits, and still drawing that level of disability. I'm not talking PTSD, I'm talking back, shoulder, etc. Last one I talked with about was telling me about all his injuries, yeah he was shot the fvck up, but it sure didn't impair him in our program, still getting that disability though - he told me they had offered him 100%, but counseled him not to take it as he wouldn't be able to get a job. And he passed his agency's physical.
JMO
When I went from street crimes which was a great job. To the SWAT team, it came with a big change. When not doing SWAT stuff we were traffic units. We were required to write 1 ticket per working hour. I often would go bang out my 7 tickets in an hour or so. Then I was free to work on team stuff that the Lt. could get approval with.
But since I had a heavy foot my policy on speeding tickets was pretty generous. 5 miles for not paying attention, 5 miles for speedo error, 5 miles for the fact I was such a nice guy. But at 16 over I pulled you over. If it was a good person my line was I am going to go back to my car and run you. If your clean we will talk on why I should give you a ticket and why I shouldn't.
95% of the time the good people would tell me deputy I deserve the ticket, these people either got a verbal warning or I would write them for 5 over but my notes would state the facts. This saved them fine money and built me a rep with the judges.
I reckon quite a bit of it also is the
I am going to video you I know my rights you cant do this I am going to sue you I am going to destroy you I am going to make you famous on youtube etc..
yes more jerk bad cops for sure on duty but also way more jerks and bad people in general !!!!!
there were lots of jerk cops back in the day also ? and I am sure they came across jerk people I do think most were nicer 20+ years ago on both sides
sadly I think LEO should do more to real criminals than seems to happen and they are now so afraid of being sued falsely accused etc..
as far as prosecution that is out of there hands but prosecutors IMHO are to weak these days also
our whole system has become so hyper sensitive half our country seems to be major freaking pussies who need there safe space !!!!
compare that to us say in our 50s if we got pulled over for doing stupid fun stuff chances are we would be very respectful and humble and not be a cocky jerk like kids today !!!!
blame all this on the progressives and modern lets be a pussy sensitive culture IMHO :)
I got pulled over at least 3x going over 120 and never got a ticket :) IMHO that would never ever happen today no way !!!
yet I also got to do community service at 15 because of some douche pig who decided me cutting across the road in the middle of nowhere on a bike was the wrong thing to do and the prosecutor decided to back him up ! but the prosecutor guy also hated me and my family small town politics and the guy was IMHO most likely a child molester !!!!
but it took the cop to get me to the prosecutor ?
so hard to say again jerks back then on both sides but I do think more jerks today on both sides and we of course hear about every little stupid thing these days with social media etc...
All I know is that bitching about writing up soccer moms and working stiffs instead of sticking it to homeboys and shitsticks gets you frowned upon.
BLUF shitsticks and homeboys either O.R. bond or sit up in jail taking up space.
Working people have jobs and genuinely fear trouble like losing their license. They always pay.
I did wbat yoni did and the judges didn't care because it was an easy docket and they still get paid but I got bitched at because "dammit that was more money. Quit reducing/warning". So I quit making stops altogether unless it was real shit that usually ended up with some pothead or child support dodger hanging out at intake until they OR bonded.
Which was frowned upon, but for some reason I simply didn't care.
SeriousStudent
04-08-16, 19:33
Think about this for a minute:
Exactly what kind of people are most parents these days? Are they the type that thinks little Johnny deserves a prize for not urinating on himself in class? At age 14? That every little special snowflake should get a prize?
And you are going to take some thieving little turd home to them for discipline? Really?
Sweet Mother of God, I'd been delighted to have been arrested by a Sheriff's Deputy or Police Officer, than face the wrath of my family as a child. Discipline started with an ass beating and then proceeded to building a quarter mile of barbed wire fence through a mesquite thicket. Guess how fun that was?
Caught with a case of beer at 17? Give me the cops and a "minor in possession of alkeyhaul" every time. I still have scars from all those mesquite thorns.
And the cops that talk about doing things by the book are exactly right. Give some one a favor, and half the time they'll bitch about it. I have this truly bizarre habit of staying out of trouble. The only time I talk to cops is at the range, or when they are sitting on my back yard patio, smoking cigars and drinking expensive whiskey.
</rant mode off>
My opinion is that cops today have much less freedom than in years before. I think that they are supervised much more closely. Radio is monitored. Cameras are everywhere. At the same time, cops are penalized for taking initiative because the patrol sergeant and his bosses wish not to deal with flack. It boils down to leadership, training, and hiring practices. COMPETENT leadership requires that bosses back the troops and be willing to stick out their necks if it's called for. How common is that?
This thread is not to rag on LEO.
I am starting this thread to see if stories ive heard are true.
I hear a lot of older people saying they got away with so much as a kid. Things that would get them arrested today.
What happened to cops just taking kids back to their parents or giving them a stern talking to?
Like what? It's a pretty open ended question.
The other part of the equation aside from the OFC is the JPO. If the JPO don't want them, then the kid isn't going anywhere anyway.
I watch a lot of "cops" the tv show. From what I can tell, there are two types of people who go to jail. Those who are criminals, and then those who didn't shut their mouth in time...
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I watch a lot of "cops" the tv show. From what I can tell, there are two types of people who go to jail. Those who are criminals, and then those who didn't shut their mouth in time...
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That show is so staged and phony.
Good policework is boring and not entertaining
BoringGuy45
04-08-16, 23:19
Everything goes to court these days. We live in a society where the state has determined that individual citizens and families cannot be trusted to make decisions in raising children and correcting behavior. DAs have an axe to grind and always want to make an example of how draconian they can be: You think I'm being overly tough on this minor crime? Just IMAGINE what I do to the REAL bad guys!
12 year old girls are ending up with sexual assault charges because they dared to kiss a boy on the cheek. I worked a center for troubled kids and I saw this once. I got chewed out because I didn't move fast enough to separate them before it happened. I had to fill out a mountain of paperwork and explain how "sexual activity" was able to occur in a situation that I was supposed to be supervising. I had to set up counseling sessions for both kids and have a "trauma coping" session for the kid who got kissed, even though he liked it!
Kids are getting arrested for having sandwiches bit into the vague shape of guns. Mom accidentally leaving a butter knife in their kid's lunch box is enough to get a SWAT callout to school.
Kids used to meet on the playground after school to settle beefs. It ended with a few bruises and a handshake. Now it ends with both kids getting felony assault charges, parents losing custody of their kids, both families suing each other and the school, and both kids turning into career criminals because nobody will hire someone with a violent felony on their record.
A cop used to take a kid he caught shoplifting home to face his parents. Nowadays, the cop tries to do that, the powers that be turn around and say, "Oh no you don't! This isn't 1950. I want that kid in here in cuffs in 10 minutes. And if his dad spanked him, I want HIM in cuffs too!"
Kids can't be kids anymore. Families aren't allowed to solve problems anymore. Plus, this society is becoming more and more dangerous, and we're told that the only way to solve it is to place our complete and unwavering trust in the state to support us. As a result we have a system set up where the only answer to disorder is to put someone in cuffs. I know the cops don't like it any better than anyone else. But that's what society wants.
gunrunner505
04-09-16, 11:38
Arrest happy? Maybe not. But you also need to consider that the asshole population has grown exponentially since most of us were kids. You see it in the way people drive, talk to and treat each other. Hell, you even see it in the way people act at the grocery store or walk down the street.
A buddy of mine is retired Navy. He and his wife and 2 daughters were walking down the boardwalk someplace and a teenage boy comes flying out of some store, runs clean into his wife and then tells her to watch where the fvck she's going. To say that big bad Bob went high and right is an understatement.
When I was 10 and we were running through the neighborhood with our toy AK47s officer cop didn't even slow down much less look. Now? 10 year olds are gang members and that AK might be real so the circumstances have certainly changed.
People are very different these days and sometimes they need to pay the piper.
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Arrest happy? Maybe not. But you also need to consider that the asshole population has grown exponentially since most of us were kids. You see it in the way people drive, talk to and treat each other. Hell, you even see it in the way people act at the grocery store or walk down the street.
There's a whole lot of truth to that statement.
I have been a cop in 2 countries USA and Israel. In Israel I was part of the anti terror para military police and had zero to do with policing problems like I dealt with in the USA. Our days was filled with training or missions against terrorist.
I have watched what used to be a great job in both countries, become a job that I thank G-D I am not a part of.
Outlander Systems
04-09-16, 20:35
This.
I was way more afraid of my parents than anyone in a uniform.
I used to joke that the Drill Sargeants ain't nothin' compared to my mom and dad. My folks were harder on me than anyone else has ever been, and I, now in my early thirties, truly appreciate it. My shut[AutoCorrect] HAD to be squared away or there was hell to pay.
When I was 17...not so much.
Fast forward to 2016, and you've got a world of "Affluenza Kid" and "Baby Dindu Nuffin Liquor Store Robbery."
Same shut[AutoCorrect], different races. All borne of a failure of parenting.
Think about this for a minute:
Exactly what kind of people are most parents these days? Are they the type that thinks little Johnny deserves a prize for not urinating on himself in class? At age 14? That every little special snowflake should get a prize?
And you are going to take some thieving little turd home to them for discipline? Really?
Sweet Mother of God, I'd been delighted to have been arrested by a Sheriff's Deputy or Police Officer, than face the wrath of my family as a child. Discipline started with an ass beating and then proceeded to building a quarter mile of barbed wire fence through a mesquite thicket. Guess how fun that was?
Caught with a case of beer at 17? Give me the cops and a "minor in possession of alkeyhaul" every time. I still have scars from all those mesquite thorns.
And the cops that talk about doing things by the book are exactly right. Give some one a favor, and half the time they'll bitch about it. I have this truly bizarre habit of staying out of trouble. The only time I talk to cops is at the range, or when they are sitting on my back yard patio, smoking cigars and drinking expensive whiskey.
</rant mode off>
Averageman
04-09-16, 20:49
This.
I was way more afraid of my parents than anyone in a uniform.
I used to joke that the Drill Sargeants ain't nothin' compared to my mom and dad. My folks were harder on me than anyone else has ever been, and I, now in my early thirties, truly appreciate it. My shut[AutoCorrect] HAD to be squared away or there was hell to pay.
When I was 17...not so much.
Fast forward to 2016, and you've got a world of "Affluenza Kid" and "Baby Dindu Nuffin Liquor Store Robbery."
Same shut[AutoCorrect], different races. All borne of a failure of parenting.
I think people would be surprised if they took a day off work and went in to their local High School and substitute taught for one day. I get the feeling there isn't a lot of parenting going on anymore and it's pretty scary when you take a look at the end result.
PatrioticDisorder
04-09-16, 20:53
There's a whole lot of truth to that statement.
"Great Society" & 3rd world immigration policies at work.
On more than several occasions I've listened to parents expect for an OFC to come parent their disobedient, misbehaving juvenile. On more than several occasions the same juvenile is up to the same trouble. On more than several occasions I've seen our frequent flyer juveniles blossom into full fledged felon adults. Some blame needs to be carried by society for these "arrest happy" trends. Times have changed, society has changed. Law enforcement has to evolve with it to keep up. Not saying more arrests is or isn't the answer. There is a lot that goes into the OFC decision between onscene and in custody. But believing that juveniles and society in general is the same as it was in the good ol' days to receive the easy way of a courtesy ride home and a talking to is not on point.
Outlander Systems
04-09-16, 20:54
True story:
Grew up in rural Tennessee. In 8th grade a teacher paddled the living shit out of two punks for throwing water on his book, and pretty much ruining it. They then went home, and got paddled by their parents.
ETA: this wasn't on CNN; neither the school, nor the teacher, were sued. The parents didn't flip out, and call the teacher. They, instead, gave out ass-kicking number two.
Fast forward to second half of 8th Grade. We moved to Michigan, and I briefly attended an inner city public school where one of my teachers was out, because a student beaten him with a chair. On my first day at the new school.
Total. Culture. Shock.
Say what you will about the South, but we had manners, literally, beaten in to us. And we're better people for it.
Spare the rod, spoil the Society, says Outlander.
I think people would be surprised if they took a day off work and went in to their local High School and substitute taught for one day. I get the feeling there isn't a lot of parenting going on anymore and it's pretty scary when you take a look at the end result.
Averageman
04-09-16, 21:26
You know the other day I was watching the News and Bill Clinton was being heckled by some folks from BLM.
Here's a bit of the story.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/us/politics/bill-clinton-apology-black-lives-matter-philadelphia.html?_r=0
But on Thursday, when confronted with protesters over the issue, the former president refused to silently listen as a signature policy of his presidency was trampled upon.
“I don’t know how you would characterize gang leaders who got 13-year-old kids hopped up on crack and sent them out on the street to murder other African-American children,” an animated Mr. Clinton said, waving a finger. “Maybe you thought they were good citizens. She didn’t,” he said of Mrs. Clinton.
I'm not sure how you reach people that think arresting and locking these guys away isn't a good thing?
The_War_Wagon
04-09-16, 22:06
I don't think they are "arrest happy" but the victims are demanding "justice", meaning an arrest. It is a direct reflection of what the public wants.
OR, more likely, the controlling authority (i.e. - da' gummint) needs cash, and the constabulary make GREAT revenue agents. :rolleyes:
This is just my opinion but I have a theory that a good lot of people have either been held down and beaten too much or not held down and beaten enough.
Seriously. If I ever effed up bad enough or thought I had effed up bad enough, and thank you Jesus it never came to that.....well I would literally have considered suicide quicker than a bankrupt Japanese salaryman or a Nuremberg Nazi defendant than let my old man get hold of me.
I'm here to tell you that Davonte Daniels takes the police for jokes. He literally doesn't care. No amount of juvenile complaints, RYDC, preaching, etc will make them respect or fear anything. The DFACS or DJJ case worker will be some fat black bitch or some dickless wonder who is backlogged and doesn't care. The Juvie Judge will waste his breath preaching and preaching making people show up for court while he plays Judge Judy and little fvcknugget won't care because it is a game and makes him feel 'badass' And it's a vicious cycle because they aren't afraid of anything.
I loved my dad dearly. He was honestly my best friend. But at the same time I knew he would stomp the holy god out of me.
Remember Beetle Bailey when Sarge would just stomp his ass? That times 9/11 plus Hiroshima. That may sound harsh but it was true. I literally feared my father.
But it was a righteous fear. Like you would fear an angry god.
But people just screw like jackrabbits and don't take responsibility so there you go. Jail doesn't fix a damn thing.
I've never seen someone go to jail and come out better.
They just age out or die out.
Now if we caned thevshit outta these little bastards and tossed em in a jailcell overnight with bread and water then let em go and told em next time will be worse like in Singapore....well that might be different.
I grew up in the 60's and 70's. I talked in class once, and the teacher made me kneel on a yardstick while holding a stack of books in each hand in the back of the class. Teachers would regularly jack you up against lockers in the hall if you misbehaved. Your head would hit the back of the steel locker and your feet would leave the ground. The greatest fear was that your parents would find out and that when you got home you'd get another attitude adjustment.
They'd all be sued today, and social services would be called. When you don't have consequences for bad behavior, you get a lawless, out of control society.
gunrunner505
04-10-16, 10:43
I grew up in the 60's and 70's. I talked in class once, and the teacher made me kneel on a yardstick while holding a stack of books in each hand in the back of the class. Teachers would regularly jack you up against lockers in the hall if you misbehaved. Your head would hit the back of the steel locker and your feet would leave the ground. The greatest fear was that your parents would find out and that when you got home you'd get another attitude adjustment.
They'd all be sued today, and social services would be called. When you don't have consequences for bad behavior, you get a lawless, out of control society.
When my nephews were in high school, just a couple years ago, it was policy that if you were attacked and being punched you were expected to curl up and take it until a "person of authority' got there to break it up. If you defended yourself you were in just as much trouble as the kid who attacked you. Yeah, I want to see them try that one on me.
Back on point, policing has taken a back seat to political agenda. The chief of police or sheriff is many times not the top cop but a mouthpiece to parrot the bullshit policies of some leftist political hack, like the superintendent of the Chicago PD or the Cook County Sheriff has become. They blame the failure to police the city on how many guns there are on the street, not how many criminals are running around because nobody hold them accountable fot what they do.
When my nephews were in high school, just a couple years ago, it was policy that if you were attacked and being punched you were expected to curl up and take it until a "person of authority' got there to break it up. If you defended yourself you were in just as much trouble as the kid who attacked you. Yeah, I want to see them try that one on me.
The same teacher that made me kneel on a yardstick said he would look the other way when I told him someone was picking on me at recess. A bloody nose later, and he was my best friend. I don't even think they have recess anymore.
Back on point, policing has taken a back seat to political agenda. The chief of police or sheriff is many times not the top cop but a mouthpiece to parrot the bullshit policies of some leftist political hack, like the superintendent of the Chicago PD or the Cook County Sheriff has become. They blame the failure to police the city on how many guns there are on the street, not how many criminals are running around because nobody hold them accountable fot what they do.
WTF have we become?
Averageman
04-10-16, 12:32
My Dad told me that if I was defending myself and I was going to get a paddling to have the Principal give him a call.
I told my Son the same thing, if you're defending your self and they want to punish you call me.
It works, it worked for us any way. You should just know the law and let them know you're not going to put up with any BS. I never had an issue with him being a bully or picking fights, but I wasn't going to allow them to encourage him to be a vagina either.
Edit to add something I just found.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/10/30-dirt-bike-riders-swarm-ambulance-transporting-child/
As many as 30 all-terrain vehicle (ATV) riders surrounded and stopped an ambulance transporting a sick child on Monday, D.C. police said.
One of the bikers opened the ambulance door and threatened the driver. The ambulance driver was forced to called the police. The child in the ambulance was unharmed.
The incident on Monday involving a gang of ATV bike riders occurred just two days after a motorcycle-riding D.C. police officer was hit by a group of move than 50 ATV and dirt bike riders and dragged down the road.
eightmillimeter
04-11-16, 12:32
While there are certainly municipalities in existence (usually small towns and cities with "automated" enforcement systems) that are in the ticket business solely as a function of $$$, it just isn't true for the vast majority.
This broke-d@ck-whiny-my life matters... society that is so hell bent on not taking responsibility for anything, demanding that every encounter needs to be videotaped and reviewed, media outlets that fish open records for the sole purpose of exposing "corruption" the likes of not writing the mayor a ticket at 20 over and then writing the very next stop at 10 over.... it goes on and on and on. If I cant be trusted to use discretion appropriately and get my photo in the paper for giving too many verbal warnings for seat belts and writing the guy I just stopped a week ago and gave a warning for it then so be it. Sorry but your wife, your kids, and anyone else is all going to get the same ticket, I don't really care if you backed out of your driveway 28 seconds ago.
The last few years of body cam after body cam of shootings (that have been cleared 99% of the time) just goes to piss the people off who demanded such things even more and put the shear brutality and reality of policing this society squarely in public view.
On the topic of seat belts, if you're so naive that you still think tickets for this sort of thing are about money you need to wake up and smell what you're shoveling. As a crash investigator I spend way too much time of my life explaining to other people why stupid mistakes killed their loved ones. If you value your existence on this earth enough to wake up every day and feel the need to participate in traffic there is no excuse not to wear the thing.
I know a lot more officers that go out of their way to not arrest someone then the opposite. Just isn't worth the hassle when everybody is short-handed and the endless stream of BS calls just gets longer and longer. The fact that motivated people still exist in this career field at this time simply astounds me and my hat is off to them.
When you are threatened by a supervisor that "they don't keep people around if there not arresting anyone" was what was told to me one night while fresh out of FTO and a wife and soon to be kid. You don't get a whole lot of chances to impress. I knew officers that would hang around the bars at closing time and hide waiting to watch someone stumble to their car and get on the road. I could never tolerate that and would not try to pad my stats by doing something I could not stomach.
There is tremendous pressure on road officers to make arrests and write tickets in the name of productivity. Its not fair but its part of the game, I have had by ass chewed a bunch of times for writing a warning when my boss felt a ticket was a better idea. But when your the one sitting next to a guy who is already getting slammed I don't see the point of piling on fines/charges to make stats.
One solid fact said here is that many people have smart mouths and show no respect and thus get penalized when they may have received a warning, and this point dovetails nicely into another given--many assholes walking around. Also, I think that poor leadership rules in departments urging ticket/arrest quotas. The beat cop is usually following orders.
gunrunner505
04-11-16, 23:24
Another thing the guys face is constant accusations of racism. You didn't pull that guy over because he was doing 100 on the Kennedy, you pulled him over because he was black or Mexican or whatever. Never mind you were going 100.
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