View Full Version : Dumb people and guns (destroying the gun range)
This is more of a rant to vent my frustrations but please tell me I'm not the only one that has to deal with dumb ass people with guns.
I purchased several steel targets and set them up at a local private range. This was with my money and out of curiosity. I bought probably $2000 to maybe $2500 total in targets (3 separate purchases total) and spent several days of my free time welding steel frames and Setting up the targets with conveyor belt. I was just trying to expand the range. My concern would people would steal them so I double bolted them.
Well we have been having several targets destroyed by people shooting the pistol targets with rifles. I mean WTF, shooting a target at 7 yards with a 22-250??? Someone was also using a 270 and 243 at close ranges of less than 25 yards. People are just stupid. If you want to shoot you rifle that's what the 200-800yrd targets are for. These people are going to injury themselves. Even some of the farther targets in the 100 to 200 yard range is were being damage from people shooting armor piercing and bonded hunting rounds.
Not only are they targets being destroyed but it's creating a hazard with the craters. My safety glasses took a nice spray of bullet fragments.
What are your thoughts on what I should do?
Have the steel targets removed?
Replace them?
Or only have steel targets at father distances as of 400+ yards?
Thoughts? Ideas?
Cameras and fines
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private range aka membership only im guessing?
Range I shoot at is basically all steel or bring your own paper/cardboard.
The rule is dont **** up the steel. Thats about the only rule on the range beyond dont shoot yourself or somebody else.
Make it known. Post rules(ESPECIALLY distance to target). Get the owners/trustees to put it out there that peoples memberships will be revoked if they are caught damaging the steel.
How private is this range?
I'd be going down the roster and calling up folks wondering why the hell they are tearing up my gear.
Furthermore this is why ranges close. Then these people get on some forum like TOS and mewl about all the ranges closing.
Cameras and fines
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No electricity for cameras.
Inkslinger
04-08-16, 18:53
Not to sound like a dick, but they're not destroying the gun range, they're destroying $2000+ worth of stuff you left for people to do what they want with. Are you out of your mind? If it's a private range do you have a board? Monthly meetings? Bring the purchasing of equipment to be used by members at the meeting. Let the club purchase them, or not. If they're not interested, then bring your own and take them when you leave.
Dist. Expert 26
04-08-16, 19:10
This is why the private range I shoot at is in my buddies back yard. People are generally inconsiderate morons and can't be trusted not to destroy anything that doesn't belong to them.
That being said you shouldn't have left your personal targets at a range, private or otherwise.
This is where things get complicated.
When I say private I mean probably 20 people or so. Friends and friends of friends and family of friends are the people that use it to my knowledge. He might let others use it. Not too Sure. Others have put time and money into it.
Where it puts me in a bind, I do not own the land, I only built part of the range. Another guy cleared the field leading to the backstop. I could shoot upto 1.5 miles from the entrance and built it for long distance since no where around here in north Texas has long ranges. The shooting bench has targets out to 1000 yards. The agreement was I built it so I can use it whenever without paying. If I start calling people then I might piss off the wrong person and no longer be able to use it.
I know it wasn't people from my side so that narrows it down. I feel like it's not my place to start telling people not to come back.
Game camera? No power needed...just a thought
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Inkslinger
04-08-16, 19:17
This is where things get complicated.
When I say private I mean probably 20 people or so. Friends and friends of friends and family of friends are the people that use it to my knowledge. He might let others use it. Not too Sure. Others have put time and money into it.
Where it puts me in a bind, I do not own the land, I only built part of the range. Another guy cleared the field leading to the backstop. I could shoot upto 1.5 miles from the entrance and built it for long distance since no where around here in north Texas has long ranges. The shooting bench has targets out to 1000 yards. The agreement was I built it so I can use it whenever without paying. If I start calling people then I might piss off the wrong person and no longer be able to use it.
I know it wasn't people from my side so that narrows it down. I feel like it's not my place to start telling people not to come back.
Then I would pull the targets that are still good and consider the rest a reaffirmation of the number of assholes in the world.
Our membership range provides wooden target frames for paper pistol and rifle targets and some AHs destroy them with shotguns. We had to install cameras (extra expense) to identify the AHs.
SeriousStudent
04-08-16, 19:21
You are right about not a lot of places in North Texas to shoot that kind of distance.
Perhaps a polite question emailed to some folks? "Gee, I wonder if someone used the range without us knowing, since some targets got destroyed...."
I'm not poking you in the eye at all, but this is why I haul all my shit out to the range, and haul all my shit back. It's a giant pain in the butt, but otherwise you end up with what happened to you.
I'm honestly sorry to hear this happened to you. Firefly is right, crap like this causes ranges to close.
If it is a private range (assuming members only) and the responsible parties can't be located to pay for damages, I'd pull everything off the range and leave a sign explaining why it was removed.
Then I would pull the targets that are still good and consider the rest a reaffirmation of the number of assholes in the world.
What he said.
If it's just a rat range, start taking old Tvs and shit out there. Maybe the "owner" will appreciate you more for what you were trying to do before.
I mean, if they're gonna act like white trash....
Had a similar issue with less money. My buddy bought a bunch of steel targets and they were shooting them with m855 and 270 etc at about 25yds. Holes everywhere now. He was doing it to though, so whatever. People just don't care.
Averageman
04-09-16, 09:19
My gun club has a key fob for each member, you are on camera going in and out of the gate.
It's not that hard that way to narrow down when the damage took place.
Anyone destroying equipment or not following the rules is required to pay for the damages and/or simply not given an invitation to renew their membership.
Maybe I missed this part, but do you have signs explaining the rules? Perhaps your mistake was not having an "inservice" program where at least some of the requirements were stated, or have emails sent to the shooters.
I agree that people are stupid. I taught school for 30 years.
If it is a private range (assuming members only) and the responsible parties can't be located to pay for damages, I'd pull everything off the range and leave a sign explaining why it was removed.
This is the answer right here. Your targets, your rules. It's either that or you carry them in and out with you on each trip. There's no way in hell I'd leave them there though.
At our range we had a similar issue. People shooting steel with high power weapons.
Our is issue is that it is mostly Border Patrol that is damaging the targets. We have about a dozen agencies that also use the range.
So we had to spend some big money on a camera system.
So no you aren't alone.
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At our range we had a similar issue. People shooting steel with high power weapons.
Our is issue is that it is mostly Border Patrol that is damaging the targets. We have about a dozen agencies that also use the range.
So we had to spend some big money on a camera system.
So no you aren't alone.
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I was a member of a private range that had to uninvite a local agency because they didn't respect the equipment that other members built, donated, etc. On top of that some of them attempted to schedule "LE only" days on the calendar.
I think the people on this forum all understand the parameters for shooting steel, but its been my experience that most gun owners don't.
I'm inclined to give the other people at your range an "ignorance pass" rather than assume they were intentionally engaging in purposeful a$$holery.
I imagine them showing up at the range, seeing your fancy new steel targets and going, "Cool. Someone left some new targets for us to shoot at." If they haven't taken a class, or received instruction from someone who knows better, how would they know the "ins and outs" of shooting steel? I was one of those ignoramuses for many years prior to the time I started taking classes in the mid 90's. My instructors taught me safe distances for the various steel types and which guns to shoot at which targets. Before that time, I would have happily, albeit ignorantly, been shooting at your targets too.
I think you've heard it enough already in this thread, but I too would never leave items I care about at my range. My range is a really nice private range too, but I still see bird shot and bullet holes in the wooden target stands all the time.
wildcard600
04-09-16, 23:37
That is unfortunate. I would take my stuff back and only bring what i was going to use and haul it all back each time after this.
threads like this make me really appreciate the truly private range i have access to.
I would speak with the land owner and see if he will intervene. Short of that, take your targets with you each trip and remove them when you leave.
There were not rules posted. They were informed of the dangers of shooting steel and to wear safety glasses, ear protection, chartered targets are dangerous to shoots, don't shoot oil tankers, etc... The people were also told that the 200+Yards were for rifles and the 5-25 for pistols. I figured it was common sense not to shoot a 243 or 22-250 at a metal target 5 yards away. Kind of like don't shoot the livestock. Guess i will have to post some signs. I thought it was obvious since the rifle and pistol area were separate. I know the rifle targets were probably damaged unintentionally because someone was shooting bonded hunting rounds into the targets which were cratering them. But damn, shooting a high powered rifle at pistol ranges is just stupid.
I was out there last night shooting with nv, there were other people that were out there that didn't belong riding atv's around the wheat fields. I think the problem is that other people than those authorized are going out there. Another land owner and oilfield workers have access to a private road on the property so maybe they are going to the range. I know for fact that the other land owner was told to stay off the property and not to be letting his kids ride their atv on the other property that's not his.
It's hard to put up a camera when it's a bare shooting area with only mesquite trees to the side of the range.
Averageman
04-10-16, 12:50
We have some benches and overhead cover on the pistol range side.
Someone shot what looks to be a 9 mm in to one of the steel support posts. That round didn't penetrate, but it must have made a hell of a ricochet.
Considering the post is just barely in front of the firing line I'm not sure how that was accomplished.
Someone else was nice enough to circle the dent and write up a nice narrative about how stupid that person must have been.
I'm a lifelong gun owner and nobody supports gun rights more than I do. But once the range we use here was opened to the local gun club I got a first hand and ongoing education into just how unbelievably stupid so many people are. Barricades shot up, barrels, electrical outlets, tables, and even a range house/storage building fired upon.
Like you, some good hearted and creative guy built a set of really nice falling plates with a reset rope. Painted on it clearly "No rifle pistol only". At least as best I recall, it's hard to read with the rifle round holes through the lettering.
About your only option to shoot steel is to purchase one of the easily broken down targets on the market or construct your own. They'll just about all fit in a car trunk or truck bed. Same goes for paper target holders.
Dist. Expert 26
04-12-16, 07:31
Reading through here conjured up a memory for me.
The club I grew up shooting at had an indoor pistol range that we used for smallbore practice/matches. Well, one day we come in to shoot and notice a decent sized hole above the backstop. Just on a hunch we decided to walk outside and look at the back of the building. Sure enough, there was a matching exit hole in the cinderblock.
We found out later that some genius decided to shoot his Thompson Center Contender "pistol" chambered in a center fire rifle cartridge in there. Thankfully they were able to nail down who it was and his membership was permanently revoked.
This is where things get complicated.
When I say private I mean probably 20 people or so. Friends and friends of friends and family of friends are the people that use it to my knowledge. He might let others use it. Not too Sure. Others have put time and money into it.
Where it puts me in a bind, I do not own the land, I only built part of the range. Another guy cleared the field leading to the backstop. I could shoot upto 1.5 miles from the entrance and built it for long distance since no where around here in north Texas has long ranges. The shooting bench has targets out to 1000 yards. The agreement was I built it so I can use it whenever without paying. If I start calling people then I might piss off the wrong person and no longer be able to use it.
I know it wasn't people from my side so that narrows it down. I feel like it's not my place to start telling people not to come back.
Not sure where you are in North Texas, but Tac Pro goes to 1k.
http://www.tacproshootingcenter.com/
Is this range insured for actually being a range?
Are you insured through the NRA or other source that covers shooting sports?
If you leave it on the range where others have access to it, it will be destroyed. I would also be extremely careful leaving something like steel out for others to shoot. If you shoot steel it is when not if you will catch frag. That just opens up a big opportunity for someone to get a lawyer and come after you.
I ran a 2/3 gun match for a couple years. Some guys on this board would come and shoot at it. I was fine with it when I had control of the stages. The range owner began to work in a few stages here and there that I felt were extremely unsafe. Ex. Setting up a near totally blacked out shelter andnot allowing weapons lights to id targets. I objected. He said he learned a technique from Todd Jarrett when you use the muzzle blast to illuminate your target. So your first shot is wherever, and you do not look at your target, you look for other targets when you fire. How many safety rules does that violate? I heard him say too many times "I'll get a lawyer and sue..." about this and that.
I cannot stress the importance of getting insurance enough. If it were me and I didn't want to haul the steel in and out, I would go ahead and donate in writting the steel to the land owner/range. Stipulate rules for shooting steel too. I would wash my hands of it if it is to be left and let it be the clubs liability. You can get insurance through the NRA (you may have to get certified as an instructor) but it is well worth it. If the owner does not have specific coverage for a range and he is a friend of yours, do try to get him to get it covered ASAP. As a whole, gun guys are good dudes, but there is always that one. Or even the guy a mile down the road who has an errant round land on his house.
I gave up on the match I was doing because I had this nagging gut feeling someone was going to get hurt due to some of the issues like ^ and I knew I'd be thrown under the bus. There were other reasons, but that above was #1. My point is, you can have great intentions (like making the range nice, setting up steel...) but unfortunately it only sets you up for liability and a punch below the belt when you see others abusing your steel.
Best of luck
Gun owners can be their own worst enemies (and the enemy of everyone else too). The local gun club with the help of the forest service built a nice range in my community. Cement floor, sturdy benches all underneath a sturdy pavilion with restrooms, picnic tables, and grills. A fantastic place to fire your weapons. Then groups started coming in and partying on weekends. Before long the restroom had bullet holes along with the shingled roof of the pavilion. Range markers were shot to pieces along with bird houses. There were other vandalism on the property. The gun club and forest service are now talking about closing this range-all because of some a holes.
If they're shooting HP rifles at super close ranges, it's just a matter of time before someone pays the "stupid tax".
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I hear ya. There have been several outdoor ranges that were free to shoot at, but run by the local/various counties here in CO that got shut down over the years because people trashed them. Broken bottles, leaving all sort of crazy shit their they wanted to shoot at (Dryers, fridges, kegs, rusted out cars etc).
I did all I could to keep them cleaned up, but couldn't keep up with how many people who trashed them. Now they are all gone. It sucks! You gotta go way out of town or pay to shoot anywhere these days.
People are such jackasses!
The offroad community supports TreadLightly to educate and lobby to keep trails open and protect nature. They have made tremendous strides at changing ethical awareness. Sounds like the gun community needs something similar to change the culture of a large swath that have no regard for others and the bigger picture of everyone's rights and responsibilities.
I did all I could to keep them cleaned up, but couldn't keep up with how many people who trashed them.
Thumbs up to you for that - you did your part. How many of us don't?
The other night at a club meeting the discussion was AR500 plates getting shot up, threats were made that whoever was doing it would be suspended/expelled from the club, it was determined that a stern warning would be placed in the newsletter.
I raised my hand and ventured that in many cases it was probably someone who knew what they were doing, but in some cases the shooter may not know the ammo they are shooting would hurt the steel. I suggested what a friend had suggested when I told him of the problem - a sign with a magnet mounted - 'Test Your Bullet - If It Sticks It Is Unsafe To Shoot At our Steel.'
The Club President was quick to proclaim 'non-steel cartridges can penetrate steel too.' I said 'Yes, I know that' and STFU, reminding myself you can't fix stupid or help folks that just want to complain.
So my project - signs with magnets.
So my project - signs with magnets.
They will become targets for some idiot.
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