View Full Version : Approx 50% of Americans Can't Come up With $400.
Not sure I fully buy these stats, but it's claimed almost half the US public can't come up with $400 for an emergency. If true, that's a mind blowing stat how leveraged and in debt and living one bill to the next, so many are:
Nearly half of Americans say they can’t afford an unexpected $400 expense
The term "middle class" is a funny thing in politics. It doesn't have an exact definition -- no minimum or maximum salary limits, no requirements to own a home that's nice but not too nice -- but it's used constantly, and for that exact reason. Almost everyone is America considers themselves middle class.
According to Pew, 87 percent describe themselves as either "middle class," "upper-middle class," or "lower-middle class." So it's no wonder politicians love the term. When they use it, about nine out of 10 Americans think the politician is talking about them.
If you think of class identity as how people feel the stress of money, it makes sense most people feel middle class. Being middle class can mean being able to pay your bills, but feeling like you could stand to earn a little more. A little more for savings, a little more to pay down debt, a little more for emergencies, a little more disposable income. It's about the limit to how much you can get ahead, how much of your paycheck you don't have to pay your bills with.
Or how much of an unexpected expense you could afford to pay for. These numbers, of course, differ for everyone. But for nearly half the U.S., $400 is too much. According to a Federal Reserve report, 47 percent of respondents said they either wouldn't be able to cover an unexpected $400 expense through savings or their credit card or would have to cover it by selling something or borrowing money. The statistic was first noted by AllGov.
Cont:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/03/tnearly-half-of-americans-say-they-cant-afford-an-unexpected-400-expense/
Remember when Clinton raised taxes "on the rich" and suddenly a lot of people that thought they were "middle class" were footing a higher bill? "Middle class" means whatever it needs to to push today's agenda--as does "rich."
Digital_Damage
04-24-16, 08:50
ya, nonsense. I don't believe it for a second. If a new version of PlayStation came out I bet you that 50% find the money.
ya, nonsense. I don't believe it for a second. If a new version of PlayStation came out I bet you that 50% find the money.
Well, that would be an emergency to most of them...lol
ya, nonsense. I don't believe it for a second. If a new version of PlayStation came out I bet you that 50% find the money.
Which they'd put on a credit card...Many people who make say 100K have a big mortgage, school bills kids or themselves, drive cars to impress others, etc, etc and have surprisingly little actual $ on hand. A large % of people (not sure if it's 47% or not...) making good incomes, still have nothing for savings and live pay check to pay check.
The entitlement mentality of the middle class has them striving for the relative lifestyle of days gone by, but one that Americans now can't afford. Like the US Government, they spend more than they make. Someday, likely soon, both entities are going to have to pay the piper.
If you are a teenager or a college student and you can't swing $400, that is understandable. If you are an adult with a job and you can't swing an extra $400 here and there, you are doing something wrong.
I wonder what percentage of that 47% vote for liberals. I'll bet its pretty high. And conversely, I'll bet the 53% that are able to come up with the $400 for "emergencies" aren't fans of BHO or Billary.
Personally, I'm in the 53%, and no, I'm not a fan of any of the lefties.
Averageman
04-24-16, 09:55
I believe this.
I know a lot of people out there that have little or no understanding of money, credit or the concept of saving. An unexpected $400 expense is enough to break the budget, not for the month but it may effect them for as much as three months.
Other than my Mother and my Son (and my Son is on notice) I no longer loan money to anyone. I've got siblings who have borrowed time and time again and clearly have no intention of paying me back, ao I just can't do that anymore.
If you ask people "How do you get rich?" for the most part the word "Luck" is going to come out of their mouths in the first to sentences of their explanation and you'll likely not hear "Sacrifice, Education or Hard Work" come out of their mouths.
Those same folks that can't pony up $400, likely have a $600 car payment, a $1500 mortgage, no health insurance and go out to eat three days a week and pull in 3K a month. It's just the way it is.
Those same folks that can't pony up $400, likely have a $600 car payment, a $1500 mortgage, no health insurance and go out to eat three days a week and pull in 3K a month. It's just the way it is.
I would love a $1500 mortgage.
I believe the report is at least mostly right. They can't come up with money for a emergency , but can come up with it for non essential items.
Averageman
04-24-16, 10:34
I would love a $1500 mortgage.
Washington State has some crazy Real Estate prices.
3 Bedroom house's here on a 1/2 acre well equipped start at about 140K. Work with your Mortgage company and you can work your payment under 1K a month if you have a VA Home Loan.
Eurodriver
04-24-16, 11:39
Does no one else remember Romney's 47% remark?
Averageman, those prices are crazy! Decent 3 bedroom houses in South FL on 7500sqft lots run about $325k
$65k down payment if you want to avoid PMI :(
Interesting, not surprising, but not entirely believable.
On a similar subject, it is worryingly common for the younger generation of millennials - especially those just reaching adulthood now - to be pressured into acquiring credit cards and accruing other debt (a car) because it is 'the adult, responsible thing to do.' To me, it was both sickening and disheartening. Sometimes it resembles an unintentional training cycle promoting a person stay in debt for the rest of their lives.
Well everytime some dumbass shows off their new car to me, I just laugh.
Funny how public "education" gets all wrapped around the axle on PC stuff, but when it comes to anything resembling financial literacy--crickets. You'd almost think it was designed that way...
My math skills peaked about third grade, but my Depression-era parents told enough stories to where even their doofus kid got a clue. My "secret" to some success was to spend less than I made, make do, and try not to do too many stupid things.
50% of Americans are lifelong children.
I live paycheck to paycheck. Guns and ammo and reloading components and optics won't buy themselves!
I have a big credit card limit and it always gets paid down to zero balance every month, and have no debt whatsoever though.
I agree. Guns and Ammo. All day.
Well everytime some dumbass shows off their new car to me, I just laugh.
What is wrong with a new vehicle?
I just ordered a 2016 Toyota Tacoma, BUT we have been driving the last Toyota truck for 18 years.
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Averageman
04-24-16, 12:58
Funny how public "education" gets all wrapped around the axle on PC stuff, but when it comes to anything resembling financial literacy--crickets. You'd almost think it was designed that way...
My math skills peaked about third grade, but my Depression-era parents told enough stories to where even their doofus kid got a clue. My "secret" to some success was to spend less than I made, make do, and try not to do too many stupid things.
50% of Americans are lifelong children.
My Grandfather was the one true constant in my life. He was born right at the turn of the Century and his tales of growing up with 13 brothers on a farm and in poverty curled my hair.
He said he would put three potatoes on the coal stove at night, eat one for breakfast and put the other two in his pockets to keep his hands warm on the way to school and eat them for lunch.
He ended up a moderately educated in the three R's, but had a wealth of education in anything practical.
He built the house he raised his kids in with the help of his brothers. He farmed 8 hours a day and when the war picked up production he became a machinist at the local DANA Transmission Factory and kept on the Family farm going at the same time.
The guy was never in debt, he sold his farm to a Real Estate Developer, collected his DANA retirement and Social Security and enjoyed his final thirty years. Yes, he still worked an eight hour day, but he worked for himself in his own shop. Most of what he built was Toys and he probably gave away most of those to local kids at Christmas.
When he passed he had a moderate savings left over, but never owed anyone a nickle as far as I know.
You're not going to find that kind of sacrifice for your Family or planning for tomorrow in most Men anymore.
What is wrong with a new vehicle?
I just ordered a 2016 Toyota Tacoma, BUT we have been driving the last Toyota truck for 18 years.
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Absolutely nothing if you can afford it.
I know one guy who saved and bought a new car and paid for it then and there because he saved up for years. I don't mean a new used car. I mean factory new.
The responsible put down a healthy down payment and work out a reasonable percentage. And own it in three years or less.
But then there have been countless people who bought a sporty car and simply couldn't make payments. Then bitchef about how unfair it was
Does no one else remember Romney's 47% remark?
Averageman, those prices are crazy! Decent 3 bedroom houses in South FL on 7500sqft lots run about $325k
$65k down payment if you want to avoid PMI :(
That is crazy. My condo is 948sf no land (condo) and its $160K-ish. Property taxes are $4k per year. Right now since the wife is in school I'm the only one working. Having said that, I wouldn't be happy, but a $400 emergency won't hurt all that much. We kept out housing cheap and lived below our means in order to save up for the two years she won't be working. Only time I use the CC is for online purchases, just in case. And I do use the BestBuy card for stuff because it has interest free financing for a year and a half. So why not?
This past Friday at Passover my cousins are like "why don't you move out already" um okay. Get a 2500sf house for $450k and $11k in property taxes? For what!?!?
When we move out of here, it will be to Free America.
Averageman
04-24-16, 13:47
Absolutely nothing if you can afford it.
I know one guy who saved and bought a new car and paid for it then and there because he saved up for years. I don't mean a new used car. I mean factory new.
The responsible put down a healthy down payment and work out a reasonable percentage. And own it in three years or less.
But then there have been countless people who bought a sporty car and simply couldn't make payments. Then bitchef about how unfair it was
The Last two vehicles I have purchased were a model year old and had less that 8K miles on them. More than likely the were repo's, both saved me 10K on the sticker price.
If I need another car or truck, I will do the same deal.
Wow. I live paycheck to paycheck, cause I put all extra cash on college debt (interest rate higher than stable investments), but I have a cc I keep paid off for emergencies that I could pay off in 2 mo if needed.
I believe it, I swear my fiance and u are almost the only people who budget. The crap people blow money on is impressive.
Need to borrow money for a new car, but make sure they have an iphone6plus... with a broken screen cause they can't even keep that nice.
Outlander Systems
04-24-16, 18:15
Rob_s used to refer to them as "$30,000-dollar-a-year-millionaires."
I thought the Great Recession killed easy/NINJA/no-doc credit?
Which they'd put on a credit card...Many people who make say 100K have a big mortgage, school bills kids or themselves, drive cars to impress others, etc, etc and have surprisingly little actual $ on hand. A large % of people (not sure if it's 47% or not...) making good incomes, still have nothing for savings and live pay check to pay check.
we did a study in economics in 2013. We interviewed 100 people ages 30-45. We found that people in there 20's usually have the least amount of disposable cash. They are starting there life, buying a car, living in a younger hip area where all the action is, dating, vacationing and buying clothes, latest electronics and such. Usually when people get into there early 30s, they are buying there first home, getting married, buying nicer furniture, planning a family or raising a family etc. In there 40s, it was raising teenagers, kids school programs, baseball, cheerleading, soccer etc. It seemed as thought people could never get ahead.
Out of the 100 people we interviewed it did seem that most people were credit rich and lived around 85-90% of there total income leaving them vulnerable to emergencies or on the spot decisions like last minute Vegas trips, buying a boat or even buying new TV. There were a few however, approx. 23 (23%) mostly single or late bloomers (lived with mom and dad into there late 20's) who had 2-3 years income saved and were debt free, most of these people drove the same car they got when they turned 16 or got in high school. There was a certain characteristic found in these few people. Rarely made purchases on new clothing or newest technology like TV's, tablets, smart phones, iPod etc., they spent most of there time with family, they had 1-5 friends and were not involved in social media (introverts). These people were also early risers and went to bet around 11pm. Even though a large portion of these people had $70k-$150k in there bank accounts, none of them felt like they were rich, most describes themselves as average and even a few felt like the co workers they worked with were extremely rich because they drove new cars and had new smart phones and usually wore nicer clothes.
I still believe there is a lot of wealth in America. $400 is a lot to a lot of people. But 50%? If they don't have $400 cash, then they have access to it via Visa, MasterCard or Amex.
ya, nonsense. I don't believe it for a second. If a new version of PlayStation came out I bet you that 50% find the money.
Yea one more credit card charge. Who needs cash when you can use plastic. It's like getting free stuff
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Yea one more credit card charge. Who needs cash when you can use plastic. It's like getting free stuff
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Bernie Sanders, is that you? ;)
Does no one else remember Romney's 47% remark?
Averageman, those prices are crazy! Decent 3 bedroom houses in South FL on 7500sqft lots run about $325k
$65k down payment if you want to avoid PMI :(
Slightly more here but it varies slightly by county and township.
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The_War_Wagon
04-24-16, 19:41
Don't let them hear this at Treasury - they'll figure out a way to run the printing presses 25 hours a day! :rolleyes:
horseman234
04-24-16, 19:58
This is a relevant article. The author is successful, but still is on financially shaky ground:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/?utm_source=SFTwitter
FlyingHunter
04-24-16, 20:50
The entitlement mentality of the middle class has them striving for the relative lifestyle of days gone by, but one that Americans now can't afford. Like the US Government, they spend more than they make. Someday, likely soon, both entities are going to have to pay the piper.
I bet that "pay the piper" someday will be within the next 2years.
http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/david-stockman-were-blind-to-the-debt-bubble-pbs/
We should look at which 50%. Don't count the huge number of incarcerated, the mentally ill, the chronically unemployed, and any of the rest living below the poverty level. Now, if the figure is still 50%, that's bad indeed.
I blow $400 or more every weekend just on eating out and screwing around.
Could it be demographic/region specific?
I work at a Level I Trauma Hospital here in The Emerald City, and would hear from time-to-time that student loans for these here med students exceed $100k a year! Let alone a mortgage, "status" vehicle(s), and the like. Interesting article though.
Averageman
04-24-16, 21:39
As I was departing the .mil, they came up with an additional duty "Command Finance NCO".
The idea was a senior NCO would assist young Soldiers in keeping their finances straight and help them with issues before it became a problem, in the worst case they would assist them once it was a problem.
No one ever saw that guy unless the wheels had come off the wagon and there were some serious issues. I never saw that guy unless he had a throbbing vein in the middle of his forehead, I swear as hard as he tried he was going to give himself a stroke.
People just don't get it, lots of easy credit is the modern version of the Plantation. Once you go in the main gate, they've got you, for life.
What is wrong with a new vehicle?
I just ordered a 2016 Toyota Tacoma, BUT we have been driving the last Toyota truck for 18 years.
Same here. High five.
My last Tacoma was a '97 with 239,000 on it when I sold it for $3500.
My new one will be ready for pick up late May or June.
Those Tacomas are popular. I'm exiting my Audi employee lease for one in July because even though it is a depreciating asset, they hold their value among the best in the industry.
I remember in my mid to late 20s I was spending cash like it was on fire. New car every year or so plus student loans etc. Now, with me asking for help and guidance, I'll be dropping car and insurance payments, cut my overall spending (going out to eat is fu(king expensive) and learning from my customers about how I don't want to be like them where any minor emergency will blow all their available money.
I sometimes wonder how I survived my 20s or even if I deserved to. They are kind of a blur.
As for Tacomas. Bleh.
I want a Hilux. A new one. But because we live in a free country, can't have one.
People will know when I have arrived not by pulling up in a Lambo, but pulling up in some uparmored jeep or SUV like from Jurassic Park and a rack full of KAC stuff.
And spin rims. Okay no spin rims but a new Pioneer touchscreen. And a blonde Japanese chick from China who has a 1930s brooklyn accent.
And a blonde Japanese chick from China who has a 1930s brooklyn accent.
Chipanese? I'm entering that in my log!
Those Tacomas are popular. I'm exiting my Audi employee lease for one in July because even though it is a depreciating asset, they hold their value among the best in the industry.
.
Holy crap do they hold there value. We looked at a used 2013 for 35k, but was able to get a new one for a couple grand LESS.
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Chipanese? I'm entering that in my log!
Yeah. It's on the bucket list. I got some pretty weird tastes. Like Latin broads who sound country as hell. Like no Hispanic accent, but country.
And half black skater chicks.
And Amazons. The bigger, taller, and more butch the better.
I'm gonna end up like Frank N Furter. I'm probably never gonna settle down....
*sigh*
Same here. High five.
My last Tacoma was a '97 with 239,000 on it when I sold it for $3500.
My new one will be ready for pick up late May or June.
Our is a '93, but we are not selling, I will take it over to replace the POS I drive.
May 25th is the production date, so by late June.
We had to order since we wanted a manual.
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Eurodriver
04-25-16, 02:05
whenever people bring up dependable Toyota pickups I immediately think:
http://d1r57ja1amoclf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/hilux_invincible_a.jpg
whenever people bring up dependable Toyota pickups I immediately think:
Not sure what we are looking at there. Can you explain?
We paid off our house, both our vans are paid for. We have no debt and a modest savings, but our real safety net is a HELOC in case of emergency. And to that end I have a sinking suspicion I am about to put a few grand into a new septic field behind my house.
Which they'd put on a credit card...Many people who make say 100K have a big mortgage, school bills kids or themselves, drive cars to impress others, etc, etc and have surprisingly little actual $ on hand. A large % of people (not sure if it's 47% or not...) making good incomes, still have nothing for savings and live pay check to pay check.
Absolutely agree with this! I was one of these people when I started making good money and how true it is. I had both kids in private school, three car notes, we ate out six nights a week and bought so much crap we didn't need. I woke up and looked at the money going out and was blown away at the absolute waste of keeping up with the Jonses.
It was a tough wake up call and we soon after started dumping our debt. Got rid of the car notes, started eating at home every night, paid off all the debt including the home and started putting away cash. We are now 100% debt free with a nice nest egg and can retire when ever we want. It's absolutely staggering how much crap you buy and don't even realize it until you have a real emergency and no funds to deal with it on hand.
Auto-X Fil
04-25-16, 09:41
Not sure what we are looking at there. Can you explain?
Top Gear took a Hi-Lux and did the equivalent of MAC's VP9 torture test. The Toyota passed.
Honestly, it's not too difficult in today's world to get wrapped up in so much debt that your head spins before you realize WTF happened. I make a good paycheck and still ended up doing stupid shit to get myself into trouble. Not as bad as the OP, but also not at a stage where I had a few months of $$ in the bank either. Instant gratification is the name of the game and the whole system is set up to feed it. Incredibly little financial education in schools or coming from home. Credit is handed out like candy on Halloween and very few folks think long term. When everyone around you from every aspect of life thinks monthly budget instead of long term; it's an easy trap to get wrapped up in. Unfortunately some folks never make it out, or think about too late in the game and don't have time to make an effective change.
Top Gear took a Hi-Lux and did the equivalent of MAC's VP9 torture test. The Toyota passed.
And it's really the Hi-Lux people should think of when they think of the Toyota pick up known for it's bomb proof rep. That's not to say what's sold in US is a bad truck, but my understanding is the Hilux more rugged all around what you see world wide and the pick up that really put them on the map. I see them all over the place when in Panama.
Reality is that most people suck with money. I know so many people that live in way more house, cars toys and life style than they can afford.
Looking good don't come cheap. The house and car thing is the problem for most. People tend to buy a lot more home than they really can afford. Cars and any other depreciated asset lose value so fast it's silly.
That 150k house actually costs between 270 and 300k depending on interest rates in a 30 year mortgage. Plus the first ten years of payments go mostly to interest. But why would you make extra payments and shit like that. How many move before ten years? How many cars did you own in that time?
Keeping up with the Joneses The losingist game you could ever play. I only wished I had figured that out sooner. I'd be sitting pretty awesome right now if I hadn't pissed away most the last decade.
Honestly, it's not too difficult in today's world to get wrapped up in so much debt that your head spins before you realize WTF happened. I make a good paycheck and still ended up doing stupid shit to get myself into trouble. Not as bad as the OP, but also not at a stage where I had a few months of $$ in the bank either. Instant gratification is the name of the game and the whole system is set up to feed it. Incredibly little financial education in schools or coming from home. Credit is handed out like candy on Halloween and very few folks think long term. When everyone around you from every aspect of life thinks monthly budget instead of long term; it's an easy trap to get wrapped up in. Unfortunately some folks never make it out, or think about too late in the game and don't have time to make an effective change.
BTDT. It's not difficult at all! In fact, it can be a constant fight not to do it, like getting fatter, both the current "American Way" sadly. Debt is encouraged and all too easy, saving, living within or below means, and buying chit you don't need encouraged at every turn. Meanwhile, no one saves less than we do, and with credit so easy and rates so low, and very little insensitive to save as returns so bad.
brickboy240
04-25-16, 11:20
Sadly, I can totally believe that statistic quoted by the OP.
I know several adults well into their 30s or 40s, that are living way above their means and have almost no savings or cash on hand.
These people have well paying jobs...close to or right over 100k a year. However, they bought right up to their limit on a house, have expensive cars, a maid service, lawn service and take expensive vacations. They are in debt and trouble only because they want to live big.
The wife and I make as much or more, but have our house paid off, as well as our country property. We have a substantial savings account and retirement investments and we are in our early 50s. We also have 3 paid for cars...one in which my daughter drives.
We have always lived well below our means, including the house we live in. We bough a home that would have a mortgage payment that was a quarter of our take home pay at the time and never moved up to a larger or more expensive home. We drive cars forever.....10 or more years and put over 300k on most of them. We only dine out on the weekends, mow our own yard and clean our own home. We take our lunches to work as well. We also take small vacations that are inexpensive and pay cash for them.
Most of our family thinks we are poor (LOL) because we still live in our small house and we drive older cars and don't go on cruises or European vacations like the rest of them.
We just laugh, because we have financial things under control and they have a hard time sleeping at night due to their overhead.
We try to explain to others that are dealing with the pressures and troubles of living above your means, how to get out of it. Many of them just don't get it and keep on spending right up to their limits.
Yes, as sad as i find it...that stat is probably very true. How people live like that is beyond me....I'd be a total nervous wreck! LOL
whenever people bring up dependable Toyota pickups I immediately think:
http://d1r57ja1amoclf.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/hilux_invincible_a.jpg
Yeah I thought it was over when they put it atop the building and then demo'd it.
Weren't the trucks they drove to the North Pole Toyotas also?
Top Gear took a Hi-Lux and did the equivalent of MAC's VP9 torture test. The Toyota passed.
Some of the TopGear footage (yeah, I've got mine too). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk
Fire, have you been running around with Eurodriver? :jester:
Yeah I thought it was over when they put it atop the building and then demo'd it.
Weren't the trucks they drove to the North Pole Toyotas also?
Heavily modified by the Icelanders, but yes.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.carthrottle.com/workspace/uploads/posts/2016/04/ae1a48505b7dd199dbf1c9476895ef80.jpg
Not sure what we are looking at there. Can you explain?
Bought heavily used. Smashed into walls and trees. Wracking ball over the engine compartment, tied down and submerged in high tide, set on fire and finally set on top of a apartment building which was then imploded. Still keeps going.
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Washington State has some crazy Real Estate prices.
3 Bedroom house's here on a 1/2 acre well equipped start at about 140K. Work with your Mortgage company and you can work your payment under 1K a month if you have a VA Home Loan.
Yeah, here in King County, its a 2200 foot rambler that is all original 1963 on a 10,000 sq ft lot in a decent location: 630,000 and a bidding war...
Yeah, here in King County, its a 2200 foot rambler that is all original 1963 on a 10,000 sq ft lot in a decent location: 630,000 and a bidding war...
Ouch......
Just out of curiosity, do you think the entitlement mentality comes from middle class or millennial? I know a lot of recent college grads who move back home after graduating only to make finding a nice apartment in uptown a higher priority then finding a job. Its kind of backwards in my opinion.
Just out of curiosity, do you think the entitlement mentality comes from middle class or millennial? I know a lot of recent college grads who move back home after graduating only to make finding a nice apartment in uptown a higher priority then finding a job. Its kind of backwards in my opinion.
Real talk, people are just stupider these days.
I'm not a successful businessman nor am I rich but here's what I have learned in life that a lot of people don't capisce:
-One way or another all jobs are temporary.
-A job is not worth killing yourself over.
-People will use you as a stepping stone and not only not feel bad about it, but will feel pretty good about it.
-The guy you help or save today will likely not share that same loyalty tomorrow.
-Nobody cares how much you actually do.
-What you actually do will be claimed by someone else however. I.E.: If you succeed, it was a team effort. If you fvck up, you were just a lone renegade.
-"fvcking up" is pretty subjective depending on who is in charge.
-The guy in charge may well be less educated, undertrained, and entirely way more out of touch than you are.
-Some people's only job is to show up, "represent diversity", collect a check, and go home
-you WILL have to cover their slack. Otherwise you are "fvcking up"
-There is always something else worth doing
-Pay yourself first. Don't just treat yourself, but certainly pay yourself first.
-Karma is a bitch
-Depending on what you do you may get injured. Nobody will care. They act like workman comp is doing you a favor.
-You WILL get old
-You WILL eventually die
-It's worth it to do what you can, while you can.
-You can't take it with you
-It's possible to work your hardest, do your damndest, and be honest in the process and still get royally fvcked over. Like royally.
-Everybody will size you up all the time. That is the projection of insecurity more than a gauge of your actual quality. A scared dog barks loudest.
-Sometimes saying "Aw fvck it", really is the best answer.
-Handshakes are merely away to pass germs. Get it in writing, in triplicate, and notarized.And even then expect no guarantees.
-You DO have a limit. You WILL reach it.
Just say "aw fvck it" and drive on. Anything else just drags you down more or over-involves you.
-The guys with the fish symbol will fvck you the hardest.
-If it costs money it better be worthwhile, entertaining, amusing, or once in a lifetime. Otherwise it goes in a bank
-A "Bank" can be different things to different people
-Sometimes it is worth it to tell someone what a piece of shit they are to their face.
YMMV
Heavily modified by the Icelanders, but yes.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.carthrottle.com/workspace/uploads/posts/2016/04/ae1a48505b7dd199dbf1c9476895ef80.jpg
Geez...SO badass!
Moose-Knuckle
04-26-16, 03:18
Yes, I believe the quote from the original post about 50% of my fellow countrymen cannot scrape together a measly $400 cash NOT CC.
And yes Toyota trucks are the most bad ass automobile yet devised by man. I've had my second for over eleven years now with nay a problem.
Crow Hunter
04-26-16, 07:45
I absolutely believe it.
Most of guys that I work with back here in the lab would have that problem. Two of them do save for retirement, at least enough to get the match, but they don't have any type of an emergency fund. If they lose a tire or their AC unit breaks down or something of that nature and they are scrambling for money.
I know people at this job and others that took 401k loans to buy fishing equipment, a new car, pay for vacations and other stupid things. My wife is an HR Manager so I here some really, really stupid stories about what people take 401k loans for and lots of horror stories related to them. I also know of people that couldn't scrape together $500 to buy a mower that I was selling that was easily worth $1,500 but I knew that they needed a riding mower really bad and I wanted to help out but I did want to at least get a Glock out of it;).
I know members if my own extended family that are like this. One of my favorite "local" gun shops is also a Pawn shop and on a Friday afternoon there is usually a fairly constant line of people coming in to pawn various items and tools so they can have money for the weekend (beer money) and then come back on Monday or Tuesday and get their tools/items back after they get paid. They live for the day with very little thought of what is in the future.
One of my buddies here at work always gets a HUGE tax refund every year. He tries to schedule his large payments for February of every year because that is when he will be flush with cash. I try to tell him that he is giving the government (which he hates) an interest free loan all year long and he could use the money all year. First he didn't understand it, then when I finally got him through the math he said he would rather keep doing it because it kept him from spending all that money through the year.:suicide:
I saw some people say they don't use credit. While I agree the borrowing money should be the last thing that you do, if you have the will power you are really missing out by not using a cash back credit card. I use two of them. The Citi Double Cash Card and the Chase Rewards. I probably get $500 or more per year back from these cards by using them for whatever I can. For instance, the Chase Rewards card is giving 5% back on grocery stores for this quarter up to $1,500. So when that started, I went to my local Kroger, where my wife shops and bought $1,500 worth of Kroger gift cards. That was $75 in rewards right there and my wife just uses the gift cards at the store instead of the credit cards until they run out. Everything else we use the Double Cash card that gets us 1% on all purchases and 1% for every dollar we pay off. Since we pay them off every month, that is 2% back on every purchase. I usually get around $27/month back. I actually "make" more on my purchases than I do on my emergency savings. :rolleyes:
But we also have the fiscal discipline to only spend what we need not just randomly buying stuff or maxing our cards and paying them off every single month. This won't work for someone that money burns a hole in their pocket. (Like my brother)
ETA:
This prompted me to check my rewards balances on both of these cards. I just made ~$115. :cool:
Just out of curiosity, do you think the entitlement mentality comes from middle class or millennial? I know a lot of recent college grads who move back home after graduating only to make finding a nice apartment in uptown a higher priority then finding a job. Its kind of backwards in my opinion.
Well, the middle class is an economic stratum, the Millennial is a generation. Personally, I think it started with the baby boomers....easy credit, still recipients of a lot of FDR's benefits, and just passed down from there. I also think that one's parentage and peer group impact this. If you teach your kids good spending/saving habits, they will usually carry it forward. If your peer group is focused on living in a $2k/month uptown apartment on a $50k salary because their friends do it....
I work in a hospital. I will say many (I would say most, but that's what I feel and not what I know) new attendings have horrible spending/savings habits. Yeah, they make bank, but have extraordinary student loans, a new Audi (that's the in thing here), $300K McMansion, big vacations.... and complain that they don't make enough.
If your household isnt grossing over 100k, youre not middle class. It doesnt matter where you live in the US; money doesnt go nearly as far as it did 20 years ago.
If your household isnt grossing over 100k, youre not middle class. It doesnt matter where you live in the US; money doesnt go nearly as far as it did 20 years ago.
I guess I'm lower class! My cat doesn't make any income, sadly. :(
If your household isnt grossing over 100k, youre not middle class. It doesnt matter where you live in the US; money doesnt go nearly as far as it did 20 years ago.
So, just for argument sake, what is the label for under $100k? And wouldn't it be contingent on where you live and cost of living and income-to-debt ratio?
brickboy240
04-26-16, 12:13
Toyota trucks are dependable but those Tacomas cannot haul anything very large. I cannot fit my ATV in the bed of one. Add a toolbox and you have even less room.
They also don't get that much better mileage than a V8 5.3 Chevy or GMC. Not nearly as quick, either.
Give me a full size GMC or Chevy with the 5.3 V8 any day. I have to haul things and the bed of the smaller pickups just will not do.
GM does many things wrong but they have always done two things right - the Corvette and the full size pickup.
WickedWillis
04-26-16, 13:40
I believe this.
I know a lot of people out there that have little or no understanding of money, credit or the concept of saving. An unexpected $400 expense is enough to break the budget, not for the month but it may effect them for as much as three months.
Other than my Mother and my Son (and my Son is on notice) I no longer loan money to anyone. I've got siblings who have borrowed time and time again and clearly have no intention of paying me back, ao I just can't do that anymore.
If you ask people "How do you get rich?" for the most part the word "Luck" is going to come out of their mouths in the first to sentences of their explanation and you'll likely not hear "Sacrifice, Education or Hard Work" come out of their mouths.
Those same folks that can't pony up $400, likely have a $600 car payment, a $1500 mortgage, no health insurance and go out to eat three days a week and pull in 3K a month. It's just the way it is.
I don't have a car payment, I do have a $1000 mortgage payment (insurance, taxes included) and I would probably have a difficult time living around a $400 bill dropped in my lap. I do eat out too much though, just because I am lazy after work most of the time. I have health insurance through my work, and I don't take home close to $3k a month. I am about as average as average gets.
So, just for argument sake, what is the label for under $100k? ?
Well it looks like if 100K and up is middle class, well I guees the rest of working America ( including me ) is just low class peasants. Just one step above the FSA.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Well it looks like if 100K and up is middle class, well I guees the rest of working America ( including me ) is just low class peasants. Just one step above the FSA.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Yep. Low class peasants represent.
Well it looks like if 100K and up is middle class, well I guees the rest of working America ( including me ) is just low class peasants. Just one step above the FSA.
Yeah, no kidding. I guess I should just grab my family and head down to the soup kitchen.
Averageman
04-26-16, 14:59
I'm guessing that the 100K number is likely way over the top.
It is regional, lots of folks where I live have spent 150K or less for a very nice three bedroom home sitting on half to a third of an acre. Median income is likely more in the like of 60K a year for the household.
If you can't live on 100K a year and do well for yourself you need to find a mirror and blame that guy, or seriously find another place to live.
If you can't live on 100K a year and do well for yourself you need to find a mirror and blame that guy, or seriously find another place to live.
Yep. Too many variable to just brush it with such a broad brush....income-to-debt, location, size of family....
Central NC, single income (I am a RN), 3k-square foot house on just a shade of half an acre with no mortgage, six kids, two vans (paid off)....we live fairly comfortably on under $75k.
Eurodriver
04-26-16, 15:38
Yep. Too many variable to just brush it with such a broad brush....income-to-debt, location, size of family....
Central NC, single income (I am a RN), 3k-square foot house on just a shade of half an acre with no mortgage, six kids, two vans (paid off)....we live fairly comfortably on under $75k.
But that's not what he said. He said it doesn't matter where you live. Which is funny, because it isn't true.
wildcard600
04-26-16, 15:42
If your household isnt grossing over 100k, youre not middle class. It doesnt matter where you live in the US; money doesnt go nearly as far as it did 20 years ago.
That sounds about right to me. 100k now would be about 35k 1980 dollars which is about at the time when the middle class really began to shrink.
That sounds about right to me. 100k now would be about 35k 1980 dollars which is about at the time when the middle class really began to shrink.
And $66k 20 years ago... I got where he was coming from, and it makes sense.
Anyone in this thread have an extra four hundy laying around? I'll take it off your hands if you want to donate.......... :)
If your household isnt grossing over 100k, youre not middle class. It doesnt matter where you live in the US; money doesnt go nearly as far as it did 20 years ago.
I make a little under that number, but I have no car payment, no mortgage nor any debt at all and I've managed myself into a place paying $400 a month for rent. I find myself with more spending power than most single people taking in twice my income. It all comes down to the repeated phrase 'living below/within ones means,' I suppose.
Do you have extra money that is awkward or in the way? Contact Eurodriver. He's qualified to hold it for you. ;)
FlyingHunter
04-26-16, 20:21
Middle class by income, lower range and upper range limits based on what state you live in:
http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-salary-required-to-be-middle-class-in-every-state-1695393156
If you want details and additional facts including trends regarding the shrinking middle class:
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/
One of my son's buddies was complaining to me he couldn't scrape enough together to put new u-joints in the front of his Dodge Cummins truck. I asked him if he was still smoking... afirmative, 1 pack a day..x30 days a month...$259.30.... two Monsters a day habit..two for $5 special at the local gas station x30... $150 a month... $409.20 a month in shit that is killing him.
One of my son's buddies was complaining to me he couldn't scrape enough together to put new u-joints in the front of his Dodge Cummins truck. I asked him if he was still smoking... afirmative, 1 pack a day..x30 days a month...$259.30.... two Monsters a day habit..two for $5 special at the local gas station x30... $150 a month... $409.20 a month in shit that is killing him.
Bingo! 50% is BS people either don't want to skimp on the small things or they are in debt over there head.
wildcard600
04-26-16, 21:05
Middle class by income, lower range and upper range limits based on what state you live in:
http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-salary-required-to-be-middle-class-in-every-state-1695393156
If you want details and additional facts including trends regarding the shrinking middle class:
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/
That chart in the first post is laughable. 56k to be middle class in Vermont ? I lived in one of the cheapest areas in VT and 56 grand would not get you very far unless you want to live in a shack and drive a rust bucket car. Property tax alone would eat nearly 7% of your gross income.
Inflation, rising cost of goods. and stagnant wages, doesn't help matters. Obviously a lot more complex than this but I'm crashing.
I don't have a car payment, I do have a $1000 mortgage payment (insurance, taxes included) and I would probably have a difficult time living around a $400 bill dropped in my lap.
Same here but instead of mortgage place rent. Between utilities, taxes, and insurance Im lucky to have $500/mo to live on for a family of 4 and gas money. Semi-rural Missouri, take home $1500-1700 bi weekly. Just another overpaid govt worker bee.
Moose-Knuckle
04-27-16, 02:36
GM does many things wrong but they have always done two things right - the Corvette and the full size pickup.
My first vehicle was an '82 Silverado . . . with exploding side saddle gas tanks.
If you got t-boned you would burn to death before anyone could extract you.
My first vehicle was an '82 Silverado . . . with exploding side saddle gas tanks.
If you got t-boned you would burn to death before anyone could extract you.
Mine too. Red top/bottom with a silver middle. Short wide with 70 series tires and factory "beauty rings". One of the best looking trucks Chevy ever made. That 305 was a total piece of shit tho...
ETA...
And the front push bumpers. Had to have the push bumpers.
brickboy240
04-27-16, 10:33
You do know that those tv reports on exploding side gas tanks on GM pickups was faked...don't you?
I had a 78 long bed Silverado that got t-boned really hard and it did not split a tank or explode.
You do know that those tv reports on exploding side gas tanks on GM pickups was faked...don't you?
I had a 78 long bed Silverado that got t-boned really hard and it did not split a tank or explode.
Haha, I remember that. They put flares under the truck iirc.
brickboy240
04-27-16, 15:06
Yes and Dateline NBC got everyone scared for nothing.
I knew many people that had 76-80 Chevy/GMC pickups and nobody had that happen and many of us had some hard side impact crashes as well.
Other than the rusting lower fenders...the 76-80 GM pickups were damned bulletproof. Very reliable, easy to work on and cheap parts were everywhere.
Same here but instead of mortgage place rent. Between utilities, taxes, and insurance Im lucky to have $500/mo to live on for a family of 4 and gas money. Semi-rural Missouri, take home $1500-1700 bi weekly. Just another overpaid govt worker bee.
:eek:
Honestly curious, and no disrespect intended -- how do you support a family of 4 on $500/mo...?
If I told my wife we had to live on $500/mo (groceries, gas, etc), she would shoot me for the life insurance payout.
FlyingHunter
04-27-16, 20:04
:eek:
Honestly curious, and no disrespect intended -- how do you support a family of 4 on $500/mo...?
If I told my wife we had to live on $500/mo (groceries, gas, etc), she would shoot me for the life insurance payout.
Caporider - can you see the humor? This post was #911 for you!
Caporider - can you see the humor? This post was #911 for you!
LOL. Yeah, I could come up with a number of reasons why that's appropriate.
:eek:
Honestly curious, and no disrespect intended -- how do you support a family of 4 on $500/mo...?
If I told my wife we had to live on $500/mo (groceries, gas, etc), she would shoot me for the life insurance payout.
One word... Aldi's.
Moose-Knuckle
04-28-16, 01:37
Mine too. Red top/bottom with a silver middle. Short wide with 70 series tires and factory "beauty rings". One of the best looking trucks Chevy ever made. That 305 was a total piece of shit tho...
ETA...
And the front push bumpers. Had to have the push bumpers.
I affectionately referred to mine as the Brown Bomb as it was brown top and bottom with a beige center stripe. Single cab long wide bed, to this day I can reverse park anything on a dime.
Agreed those trucks were beautiful, I knew a Vietnam Vet who rebuilt a '79 short wide, solid black, Shiner Bock tap for a gear shift, and lift kit. A work of art. One day I would like to restore a quad cab from that era (pretty rare).
Moose-Knuckle
04-28-16, 01:38
You do know that those tv reports on exploding side gas tanks on GM pickups was faked...don't you?
Nope, never heard that. Did GMC own the TV network(s) after their smear campaign?
ramairthree
04-28-16, 01:48
More importantly,
How often can you come up with 400$ cash to spend on ammo, guns, etc. that your wife has no idea about.
I affectionately referred to mine as the Brown Bomb as it was brown top and bottom with a beige center stripe. Single cab long wide bed, to this day I can reverse park anything on a dime.
Agreed those trucks were beautiful, I knew a Vietnam Vet who rebuilt a '79 short wide, solid black, Shiner Bock tap for a gear shift, and lift kit. A work of art. One day I would like to restore a quad cab from that era (pretty rare).
Rare indeed.
My grandfather had an 85 Silverado in the same colors as yours, although by that time you could only buy a two tone with one color on top 2/3, the other color on the bottom 1/3. I loved that truck.
Ours were of the vintage you could still get the color/tone/color config, which I preferred.
Averageman
04-28-16, 08:56
You know this thread has given me an idea how the .gov gets away with the stuff they get away with.
WickedWillis
04-28-16, 10:11
More importantly,
How often can you come up with 400$ cash to spend on ammo, guns, etc. that your wife has no idea about.
Everytime I do, it's because I had to save here and there.
More importantly,
How often can you come up with 400$ cash to spend on ammo, guns, etc. that your wife has no idea about.
When presented with that dilemma I fired her.
When presented with that dilemma I fired her.
You have a caliber firearm in which your wife fits down the barrel?
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