View Full Version : Gun safe recommendation
Here is a question I think could help a lot of people in my situation.
I have a gun cabinet now that has worked great for its intended purpose, keep the guns as secure as I can for what I had.
I am now investing more in my firearms and ammo and am in need of a legit safe.
I only have a handful of firearms id be storing, 1 16" ar, 10.5sbr, 870, a 22 bolt action and a few hand guns. So not much needed in space.
My issue is that I live on the 3rd floor of my apartment and am concerned about weight being on the 3rd floor.
And also budget. I do t want to spend an awful lot, close to 300-400 but want a safe that will keep any unwanteds out.
Is there anything out there that can fit that bill?
I've browsed a bunch and see a lot of different options, but am not sure where to go from here
Any advice is awesome. Or put me in the right direction
Thanks
VP
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BuzzinSATX
04-25-16, 13:41
Id suggest a Liberty Safe. I've had other brands, and I think Liberty offers best value from what I've found.
Otherwise, I don't think there is much difference in lower brands, so maybe shop deals?
Take Care,
Buzz
SurplusShooter
04-25-16, 15:26
A lot of store-brands are made in China and are not actually UL listed as "residential security container". Beware.
I have a Winchester brand (?" granite security products"?) and it says "made in USA" and is UL listed. Two important criteria for me. On a Price-per-volume basis I have been happy with it.
Check out the Liberty Revolution line.
This is a dark road and you are going to get a lot of great answers. One of the most frequent is: get the biggest safe now because you will fill it up. This is true! But I am sure you read that and say "I get it, but I live in an apartment and its up three flights of stairs". So I am going to come at this a different way, which is the good enough way.
Walmart sells a line of stackon safes that are cheap and as long as you do your part anchoring it to the floor and wall you should be good to go if you are just looking to keep folks out. The door is recessed and the hinges are in the inside, it also has lugs for locking.
Is it awesome - no.
If your house burns down will all your guns be safe - no.
If someone were to break into my apartment and want to steel my stuff and think they could break into the safe to get my guns would I be good - yes
If someone knew I had guns and brought the right tools to get into the safe could they - absolutely but this is true for more safes than you think
8 gun - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-8-Gun-Combination-Lock-Safe/20753931
10 gun - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-10-Gun-Safe-with-Combination-Lock-Hunter-Green/19724385?action=product_interest&action_type=title&item_id=19724385&placement_id=irs-106-t1&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id&category=&client_guid=b5323104-4f8a-4e70-86e1-597e59bec082&customer_id_enc&config_id=106&parent_item_id=20753931&parent_anchor_item_id=20753931&guid=600af04b-7a4d-4e9c-bd16-4a5d369d0dfd&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n
16 gun - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-16-Long-Gun-Fully-Convertible-Security-Safe-with-Combination-Lock-Hunter-Green/20753930?action=product_interest&action_type=title&item_id=20753930&placement_id=irs-106-t1&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id&category=&client_guid=62d89e01-6f2a-4e80-8a5e-f6d3274135c9&customer_id_enc&config_id=106&parent_item_id=20753931&parent_anchor_item_id=20753931&guid=0c83092e-35b9-4a26-b8b0-e279fadbcc28&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n
You will want a set of these - http://amzn.to/1NukdtH They work awesome
Don't think you can put 8 guns in the 8 gun safe, more like 3. On the cheap dont hesitate to gut the safe an customize it with more shelves.
There is a guy on ebay that make the most bad ass custom LED light kits for safes - http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUN-SAFE-LIGHT-THE-BRIGHTEST-LED-KIT-12v-POWER-SUPPLY-OR-BATTERY-FULL-AUTO-ON-/181580741367?var=&hash=item2a470e3af7:m:mpTBZWNrWGkNSWVlqvsdbBw
Hope this was helpful. Good luck!
A couple of observations on the input listed above...
I was thinking Stack-on right there with ya for the OP's needs vs. reality of his living situation. The problem there like stated is you have the choice of chaining it to something sturdy, or lagging it into the floor and wall as stated. Beware doing this without your landlord's blessing as you can lose your deposit (and then some, if the guy's a real douche canoe). Make sure it's okay to make a modification and repair it when you move on. Former landlords are references just like former employers; especially if another apartment is in your future!
If you have a closet and can spare the space, put the safe in there to conceal it from casual observation. You never know who might be a guest, yet casing your shit while they're eating your munchies. Sounds paranoid, but why advertise? When the end of times does come, do you want every Tom, Dick and Jane going "Let's go rob So-and-so, he has LOTS of guns!" FWIW: I wouldn't display the finest, best looking safe prominently either. Some firms, like Liberty, market their stuff as furniture, or at least worthy of sitting in one's living area... Couple things to think about.
With all this talk about safes, remember: Security equals weight. That's pretty much an indisputable fact. Fact number two: That which you move in, you will eventually move out (Unless you croak and stiff a relative with the job). Moving sucks and sitting still means you're accumulating more shit to move at some point in th future! :D
Get the SNAPSAFE ... it is modular and arrives in pieces - you put it together and the pieces interlock, forming a much more formidable barrier, if not 'safe' than a a Stack-On 'cabinet'.
http://www.snapsafe.com
Did a lot of apartment living many, many years ago. I understand your situation and the best you can do is a compromise to eliminate the smash and grab. One thing that you can do is anchor it as securely as possible. Most apartments (upstairs) do not have a suitable floor for anchoring. They will have lightweight cement (almost like plaster) or wood flooring. You will be better off mounting it in a corner in a closet, identify the studs and anchor to the wall using lag bolts. You can shim the wall to account for the base board or remove the baseboard so that you get a tight fit. Easily repaired/hidden when you move out and it makes it difficult to remove with only a tight space for leverage. Positioning the container with the locking side of the door closest to a wall rather than the hinge side also limits the leverage space when someone tries to pry it open. I always approached the problem from the standpoint of how difficult can I make it for someone to mechanically assault the container.
BuzzinSATX
04-25-16, 20:00
Get the SNAPSAFE ... it is modular and arrives in pieces - you put it together and the pieces interlock, forming a much more formidable barrier, if not 'safe' than a a Stack-On 'cabinet'.
http://www.snapsafe.com
That was a cool video on the site. I'd think about this if I lived in an apartment...
Thanks all. I think the Liberty safe is my best bet for a bit better prevention than the stack on. The price for stack on is great, but it's worth the cost of the Liberty. And I think I'll have a bit more room to get more guns!
Thanks all
VP
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Liberty is good for the money. I looked at a lot of safes and most of them are crap. Research what to look for.
Example, there was a winchester safe with huge ss locking bolts, but they locked into thin steel and there was a huge gap around the door. 1 guy with a crowbar could probably break in within seconds.
Bolting down is huge, but sounds not possible for you, so I'd try to stick it somewhere that requires a lot of noise and movement to tip it. If it needs tipped to break, and tipping draws a lot of attention, that's good.
No safe is secure, but you want it to be as painful as possible in hopes someone will give up and move to another residence.
Just my opinion. I settled on a liberty for now. I'll upgrade to a sturdy or am score when I move
Liberty is good for the money. I looked at a lot of safes and most of them are crap. Research what to look for.
Example, there was a winchester safe with huge ss locking bolts, but they locked into thin steel and there was a huge gap around the door. 1 guy with a crowbar could probably break in within seconds.
Bolting down is huge, but sounds not possible for you, so I'd try to stick it somewhere that requires a lot of noise and movement to tip it. If it needs tipped to break, and tipping draws a lot of attention, that's good.
No safe is secure, but you want it to be as painful as possible in hopes someone will give up and move to another residence.
Just my opinion. I settled on a liberty for now. I'll upgrade to a sturdy or am score when I move
That's good advice. I did bolt my cabinet I have to the studs in a closet but it's just not enough prevention.
I think Liberty is it.
Thanks
VP
SavageBrew84
04-26-16, 12:23
I picked this up at a local Cabela's when they were having a sale a year and a half ago I think. Floor model was the last one and out the door I paid right at $750. It's a liberty safe, 11 ga. steel with a 40 minute fire rating. I happened to be in the right place at the right time, but I would still pay full price for it if I was in the market again.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/gun-storage/gun-safes|/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104369580/cabela-s-woodsman-gun-safe-series-by-liberty/1617963.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fgun-safes%2F_%2FN-1100213%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104369580
Savage, you got a great deal.
I wish to point out a couple facts about safes, which are, of course essential for gun owners. In a house with a basement, during a fire the safe may end up in the basement when it falls through the floor. Placed upstairs, the safe likely will plunge downward during a fire. In a total fire, it may not matter because the contents will be cooked anyway. A 40 minute period of protection is good when the house is in a city with fire protection. In a rural area without a fire department, this period of protection may not be adequate.
medicman816
04-30-16, 20:52
There is already a lot of great info here. Will only add that it may be of some benefit to look locally at safe and locksmith companies. Its not uncommon to find a good used safe that they are sitting on or looking to get rid of for some reason. A few local companies here get safes from auctions or take them as trade ins. You will basically get what you pay for anywhere but I personally believe that there is a better value in a used "safe" than a new liberty or stack on. They will also know how to move it for you and be able to tell you if it is ok for a third floor. Its also not uncommon for them to be comfortable delivering over some distance.
As another poster basically said, weight = security. The best lock in the world is meaningless if they take the whole thing with them.
I have a Liberty Fatboy, nice but the interior lights suck.
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3ACR_Scout
05-18-16, 16:48
Will only add that it may be of some benefit to look locally at safe and locksmith companies.
In addition to being a potential source for a safe, a locksmith can also deliver it to your home safely, to avoid having to get a bunch of buddies together and use questionable methods to haul your safe upstairs, put holes in the wall, etc. Locksmiths who deal with safes use a remote control stair climber to move safes around, which could be very helpful if you live in an upstairs apartment. One other thing I've heard about as I've researched this (I'm hoping to buy one in the next couple months) is that some locksmiths will agree to deliver the safe after hours (after dark) to avoid having all the neighbors /passersby see it during broad daylight. It may not be a foolproof idea, but it's worth trying to minimize the attention your delivery might attract.
Dave
Here is a question I think could help a lot of people in my situation.
I have a gun cabinet now that has worked great for its intended purpose, keep the guns as secure as I can for what I had.
I am now investing more in my firearms and ammo and am in need of a legit safe.
See also thread I started with basic safe recs:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?51518-General-safe-gun-safe-info
Important to note what's sold as a "safe" is not...brand wise, from above thread:
"I'm partial to AMSEC. They are the Colt of safe makers. They are the largest and most experienced, and value for $$$, no one can touch them. They are the only company that makes a TL30 rated gun safe, and like Colt, you know what you're getting, even if there's Bush Master below them and Noveske "above" them, they set the standard. There's more commercial grade AMSEC safes protecting more high end stuff than anyone else and there's a reason for that. Go into Jewelry stores etc, and you'll see AMSEC more often than any other brand by miles. They are not pretty to look at (and pretty to look at costs $$) and their focus is always on security.
What you get with others may be better looking and such, bells and whistles, etc, but for value to $$ ratio, it's a no brainer. Remember, safes are like guns in that a dealer often makes his profits more so from one brand over another, and will push one brand over another. That does not mean they are pushing a bad product on you per se but it does mean they have bias as to why they are pushing one vs another."
3ACR_Scout
05-19-16, 00:34
Well said, Will. I've had my mind set on an AMSEC safe for a while now, but I wasn't sure it was worth mentioning based on the OP's apparently limited budget. Not that I have a lot more money lying around, but I really wanted to get the best I could possibly afford. My main hesitation is that, as mentioned above, with better security comes more weight. The AMSEC model that I want weighs 1,000 lbs, which is about 6% of my authorized weight allowance for a military move, and we were already overweight on this most recent move. I'm going to have to get rid of some important pieces of furniture to make room for a safe like that!
Dave
I have a Liberty Fatboy, nice but the interior lights suck.
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X2 here. My fatboy is at least bolted to concrete and has an upgraded 90 minute fire rating. However, now the weak point is that S&G lock.
X2 here. My fatboy is at least bolted to concrete and has an upgraded 90 minute fire rating. However, now the weak point is that S&G lock.
S&G locks is the manufacturer of nuclear weapons locks on US Navy ships, or so I was told. Be that as it may, I CANNOT RECOMMEND enough to NOT get the digital lock option, and not for any perceived tinfoil-hat EMP scenario either. I have a digital S&G lock on my gun safe and ordered from the factory as such and totally regret it. Not only does it require regular (tho not frequent) battery changes, it just isn't as reliable as a regular manual spin dial lock, S&G name not-withstanding. Furthermore, according to the factory, I can upgrade from a manual spin dial to an electronic digital but not digital to spin dial. Buy carefully.
As the OP is on a budget, the digital upgrade option is moot.
My safe, made locally, has two key locks protected by being inside a rectangular cave, and the key must be inserted vertically once inside the cave. I chose this method over a spin dial because I never have seen one that could not be knocked off with a hammer or similar club--like by a frustrated thief.
S&G locks is the manufacturer of nuclear weapons locks on US Navy ships, or so I was told. Be that as it may, I CANNOT RECOMMEND enough to NOT get the digital lock option, and not for any perceived tinfoil-hat EMP scenario either. I have a digital S&G lock on my gun safe and ordered from the factory as such and totally regret it. Not only does it require regular (tho not frequent) battery changes, it just isn't as reliable as a regular manual spin dial lock, S&G name not-withstanding. Furthermore, according to the factory, I can upgrade from a manual spin dial to an electronic digital but not digital to spin dial. Buy carefully.
As the OP is on a budget, the digital upgrade option is moot.
I got the manual lock for just the reasons you describe. S&G is a fine company building a quality part. However, it isn't the same lock used on nuclear weapons! General Motors makes Chevys as well as Cadillacs. I'm only saying that as far as HSC locks are concerned, the S&G's used on Liberty safes aren't Cadillacs. For 98% of uses they are more than adequate though. If you're me, then it's good to go. Maybe not so much for Eurodriver...
S&G locks is the manufacturer of nuclear weapons locks on US Navy ships, or so I was told. Be that as it may, I CANNOT RECOMMEND enough to NOT get the digital lock option, and not for any perceived tinfoil-hat EMP scenario either. I have a digital S&G lock on my gun safe and ordered from the factory as such and totally regret it. Not only does it require regular (tho not frequent) battery changes, it just isn't as reliable as a regular manual spin dial lock, S&G name not-withstanding. Furthermore, according to the factory, I can upgrade from a manual spin dial to an electronic digital but not digital to spin dial. Buy carefully.
As the OP is on a budget, the digital upgrade option is moot.
S&G locks, like the RSC or safe they are on, are rated for security levels. What's on your Liberty RSC is not what's on a nuclear sub, not even close. The S&G locks on lower end RCS and safe are good quality and I'm not aware of any boxes being broken by defeating the locks. That does not mean it does not happen of can't, but brute force opening is how they get into a lower end RSC or safe the vast majority of the time via large crow bars, power tools, etc. Personally, I like the digital locks and have had zero issues with them in decades of using them. Also:
" As far as security goes, there are a lot of the old-timers out there, who think that the dial lock is better. Actually it is not. This is a Group Two lock. It can be manipulated in eleven to fifteen minutes by a professional. There are not a lot of those running around, but it can be done. The digital lock the average estimated time for manipulation is twenty seven years, because there one million full possible combinations (minus one), and in addition to that there are six or seven quality digital locks out there. They are called Grade One locks. Much higher security than a group two because of the high manipulation resistance."
Source:
http://www.deansafe.com/combination-dial-versus-electronic-safe-lock.html
3ACR_Scout
07-13-16, 15:00
This is a little off topic from the original post, but does anyone have any experience with this V-Line wall safe?
http://vlineind.com/ProductDetail.php?product_id=70
Seems like a good idea for a closet or somewhere else out of sight. This is obviously not intended as a primary safe, but as a secondary that would keep things out of the reach of kids and visitors while you're home.
Dave
S&G locks, like the RSC or safe they are on, are rated for security levels. What's on your Liberty RSC is not what's on a nuclear sub, not even close. The S&G locks on lower end RCS and safe are good quality and I'm not aware of any boxes being broken by defeating the locks. That does not mean it does not happen of can't, but brute force opening is how they get into a lower end RSC or safe the vast majority of the time via large crow bars, power tools, etc. Personally, I like the digital locks and have had zero issues with them in decades of using them. Also:
" As far as security goes, there are a lot of the old-timers out there, who think that the dial lock is better. Actually it is not. This is a Group Two lock. It can be manipulated in eleven to fifteen minutes by a professional. There are not a lot of those running around, but it can be done. The digital lock the average estimated time for manipulation is twenty seven years, because there one million full possible combinations (minus one), and in addition to that there are six or seven quality digital locks out there. They are called Grade One locks. Much higher security than a group two because of the high manipulation resistance."
Source:
http://www.deansafe.com/combination-dial-versus-electronic-safe-lock.html
I bought a large AmSec for work from Dean Safe. They're both a great choice.
This is a little off topic from the original post, but does anyone have any experience with this V-Line wall safe?
http://vlineind.com/ProductDetail.php?product_id=70
Seems like a good idea for a closet or somewhere else out of sight. This is obviously not intended as a primary safe, but as a secondary that would keep things out of the reach of kids and visitors while you're home.
Dave
I have a VLine rifle lock box for my HD AR. I am very happy with it.
https://www.amazon.com/V-Line-Quick-Access-Keyless-42-Inch/dp/B000T2A6BW/ref=pd_sim_200_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VEHCTT3RHK5D7F26APJH
Tractor Supply has some decent safes that won't break the bank.
mattpittinger
09-04-16, 19:16
+1 for tractor supply
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