View Full Version : Meanwhile in Florida, black confederate troops are honored...
Eurodriver
05-01-16, 09:18
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2016/4/30/new_plaque_at_confed.html
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/articles/bn9/2016/4/30/new_plaque_at_confed/_jcr_content/contentpar/articleBody/image.img.png/1462071194254.png
H.K. Edgerton, a former NAACP branch president and advocate of Southern civil rights, was the key note speaker at the dedication. He also kicked off his "Southern Cross Revival March," where he will travel the state to speak about the importance of black soldiers in the Confederate Army.
"Far too many people don’t know about the honor and dignity we have earned in the South end of America," Edgerton said.
See, people would call him Uncle Tom, which I find ironic given that most never read the book.
There's an untouched history that we'll never see in the mainstream because of those who seek to suppress it.
This guy was on one of the Penn & Teller Bullshit! shows.
Averageman
05-01-16, 11:41
See, people would call him Uncle Tom, which I find ironic given that most never read the book.
There's an untouched history that we'll never see in the mainstream because of those who seek to suppress it.
Often regarded as the Father of Modern Cavalry tactics in Europe, Nathan Bedford Forrest was highly regarded in Europe and especially by the Germans. His bold actions during the war redefined what small units could do and what Cavalry was capable of in it's Shock Effect on the battle field.
You know if you haven't already some books on N.B. Forrest might surprise you. Often regarded as the Father of the KKK, Forrest claimed not have been involved with the KKK and that his name was used by those on both sides, some for favor and others for blame.
In the end, Deeds Speak louder than Words and Forrest rebuilt a great deal of the rail roads in the South after the war.
Given that work was rare and those paying in gold or U.S. Currency were even more rare, Forrest hired more black than white labor and was instrumental in the founding of black labor unions for workers.
I'm sure to be flamed for this, but....
I don't know why, but blacks contribution to American history is only ever taught as it relates to slavery or overcoming racism.
I talk about this with a close (he is black) friend of mine, and ask him what he was taught about black history in general. His general knowledge has a gap that starts at American slavery, and goes to the African Moors.
He had no idea who Crispus Attucks was. Which I find incredible. And maddening.
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sevenhelmet
05-01-16, 14:58
How about George Washington Carver? I suppose he was an "Uncle Tom" too, whatever that means.
KalashniKEV
05-01-16, 20:30
I don't know why, but blacks contribution to American history is only ever taught as it relates to slavery or overcoming racism.
I guess it all depends on where you grew up, but I don't think that's the case at all.
How about George Washington Carver? I suppose he was an "Uncle Tom" too, whatever that means.
?
Why would he be an Uncle Tom? And what is your point?
If the Confederacy was able to secede, George Washington Carver would have been on a plantation picking cotton and getting whipped by his "owner."
Why would he be an Uncle Tom? And what is your point?
If the Confederacy was able to secede, George Washington Carver would have been on a plantation picking cotton and getting whipped by his "owner."
Since you are all about facts and such...
http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/07/free_blacks_precivil_war_where_they_lived.html
http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/07/free_blacks_in_the_south_why_did_they_stay.html
In fact, the Free Negro population (to use the contemporary term for them) in the South before the Civil War actually outnumbered that in the North by a substantial margin. Of the 488,070 free African-American people in the United States in 1860 -- 11 percent of the total black population -- according to the federal census, some 35,766 more lived in the slave-holding South than in the North,
KalashniKEV
05-01-16, 21:25
In fact, the Free Negro population (to use the contemporary term for them) in the South before the Civil War actually outnumbered that in the North by a substantial margin.
So what?
That didn't help the "getting whipped Negro" population much at all.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-01-16, 21:38
So what?
That didn't help the "getting whipped Negro" population much at all.
Does anyone else get tired of this man's contrarian and combative views on anything that does not fit the liberal point of view?
SeriousStudent
05-01-16, 22:00
Does anyone else get tired of this man's contrarian and combative views on anything that does not fit the liberal point of view?
Yes.
Civil War threads and topics almost always end up locked here. This one will be constantly watched.
For a war that ended 150 years ago, you would think the fighting would have stopped.
You know, we have 150 years of hindsight.
And who knows how we, today, will be judged in 150 years.
Regardless of what side of history who was on, these people, the black Confederates, fought and died. For whatever reason personal or otherwise.
To forget them, to pretend they didn't exist, or to revile what we presume to be motivation, is to disrespect them.
Sometimes it boils down to "because we live here".
We shouldn't be like Germany and pretend it never happened nor be ashamed for the actions of ancestors.
There were a lot of hard won lessons for both sides. And, I don't think that we would have some of the individual freedoms we enjoy in the South, ironic as you wish to take it, if people didn't know what it was like and never forgot.
We never seriously worry about gun rights down here. And...we live fairly well together.
Nothing is ever as black and white as we would like it to be.
So what?
That didn't help the "getting whipped Negro" population much at all.
Was just pointing out that "getting whipped on some plantation" wasn't an automatic outcome. But you knew that was the point of my reply when I posted it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-01-16, 22:36
Things like this often make me doubt that we truly know what happened before we were here. History seems to always be taught with a slant and bias, one way or the other.
You know, we have 150 years of hindsight.
And who knows how we, today, will be judged in 150 years.
Regardless of what side of history who was on, these people, the black Confederates, fought and died. For whatever reason personal or otherwise.
To forget them, to pretend they didn't exist, or to revile what we presume to be motivation, is to disrespect them.
Sometimes it boils down to "because we live here".
We shouldn't be like Germany and pretend it never happened nor be ashamed for the actions of ancestors.
There were a lot of hard won lessons for both sides. And, I don't think that we would have some of the individual freedoms we enjoy in the South, ironic as you wish to take it, if people didn't know what it was like and never forgot.
We never seriously worry about gun rights down here. And...we live fairly well together.
Nothing is ever as black and white as we would like it to be.
And THANK YOU.
KalashniKEV
05-02-16, 05:49
...anything that does not fit the liberal point of view?
Liberal?
I'm actually quite conservative, but you do realize that slavery is not a partisan issue?
1) Not everything that crosses one's party-owned mind is a battle between left and right.
2) Most topics exist in a grey area, but there are some issues in our world that really are black and white, cut-and-dry, Good vs. Evil. Slavery is one of them- and people with the most basic human morality knew that, even back then.
It doesn't matter that the numeric majority of females living under Islamic state rule are not rape dolls or if a healthy minority of blacks living in the Confederacy were not slaves- both states need to be destroyed and the guilty punished.
Focus. The vast majority agree that slavery is a terrible thing. But in the context of the War of Northern Aggression it was not the primary reason for the war and was well on it's way out as a business model in the South, it was cheaper and more productive to hire share croppers. To get back to the op topic it is disgraceful that black contributions to American history are downplayed so much, I can only conclude that there is an intentional effort to deny young people from positive black role models.
To get back to the op topic it is disgraceful that black contributions to American history are downplayed so much, I can only conclude that there is an intentional effort to deny young people from positive black role models.
Depends on a number of factors. When I was growing up, I was largely responsible for my own education. I did great in school, but I also spent a lot of time on my own, learning about the world. Most of my friends had posters of sports stars in their room: Jordan, Jackson, Rice, Payton, etc. A few of my friends had posters of civil rights leaders, like Martin, Malcolm, and Rosa. I had posters of Daniel "Chappie" James, Garrett Morgan, Langston Hughes, Elijah McCoy, and Mary McCleod Bethune. I read the biographies of Thurgood Marshall, Ben Carson, and Colin Powell. I was a bit of a nerd. Still am.
Some of it may be racism, institutional or otherwise. A lot of it is also the broad brush treatment that History gets in many public schools. A lot of it is also the inability or unwillingness of some students to take learning into their own hands.
As a largely self made black man, I didn't put too much stock into what the TV told me I should do, play, buy, watch, etc. One of my biggest goals in life is to impart that to my kids.
Liberal?
I'm actually quite conservative, but you do realize that slavery is not a partisan issue?
1) Not everything that crosses one's party-owned mind is a battle between left and right.
2) Most topics exist in a grey area, but there are some issues in our world that really are black and white, cut-and-dry, Good vs. Evil. Slavery is one of them- and people with the most basic human morality knew that, even back then.
It doesn't matter that the numeric majority of females living under Islamic state rule are not rape dolls or if a healthy minority of blacks living in the Confederacy were not slaves- both states need to be destroyed and the guilty punished.
So you agree the "rape state" of Iran must be destroyed?
http://womensenews.org/2003/12/women-iran-deem-rape-laws-unfair/
In Iran, if a woman is raped, she is considered an adulteress and faces death by stoning. But if a woman fights off a sexual predator and kills him, she can then be tried for murder and face death by hanging.
If a man is proven to have raped a woman, his punishment is execution by hanging. But in almost all cases, the man is set free because judges traditionally look for signs in the behavior and clothing of the woman in order to explain away the act of rape. A Persian-language proverb goes like this: "It is the tree that hosts the worm," meaning rape is caused by women and their suggestive behavior.
KalashniKEV
05-02-16, 16:21
So you agree the "rape state" of Iran must be destroyed?
Rape State of Iran?
LOL. What are you smoking?
If a woman gets raped in Iran, by someone other than "the Head of Security Police" her family shows up and kills that person. Done.
Do you know what happens when a woman is raped by "the former spokesperson of Jello Pudding Pops" in the Rape State of USA?
LOL. Nothing.
But then again maybe my views on the topic are just too influenced by actual reality that I live in, and my ability to spot a fraudsite.
After all, I did quite a bit of time in the Rape Job of US Army, where females face a "1-in-3 chance of sexual assault and a high probability of retaliation for reporting it?"
womensenews.org/2014/12/military-recruitment-needs-sex-assault-warning/
Please put more thought into your nonsequiturs in the future and deliver higher quality sources...
Rape State of Iran?
LOL. What are you smoking?
If a woman gets raped in Iran, by someone other than "the Head of Security Police" her family shows up and kills that person. Done.
Do you know what happens when a woman is raped by "the former spokesperson of Jello Pudding Pops" in the Rape State of USA?
LOL. Nothing.
But then again maybe my views on the topic are just too influenced by actual reality that I live in, and my ability to spot a fraudsite.
After all, I did quite a bit of time in the Rape Job of US Army, where females face a "1-in-3 chance of sexual assault and a high probability of retaliation for reporting it?"
womensenews.org/2014/12/military-recruitment-needs-sex-assault-warning/
Please put more thought into your nonsequiturs in the future and deliver higher quality sources...
Well here is a different site. In fact you can find dozens of sites for this and similar instances.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/10/28/punished-for-being-raped-the-burden-of-women-under-sharia/
Should have known Sharia laws which create "rape states" only apply to Sunni's and not your Shia friends.
Also you do realized you compared Bill Cosby NOT being punished to the rape victim in Iran ACTUALLY being punished right? This isn't a case of somebody got away with rape in Iran, this is a case of Afsaneh Nowrouzi being sentenced to death because she was raped, or in Sharia Law "committed adultery."
She is only alive because of public outcry which led to a pardon, due to compensation in cash.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/jan/13/family_pardons_iranian/
Tehran, Iran: A woman who spent seven years on death row in Iran has been spared execution by the family of the police chief she stabbed to death and sexually mutilated for trying to rape her.
The death sentence for Afsaneh Nowrouzi raised an outcry from activists and drew the attention of international groups who sought to overturn the order.
This week, following mediation by the judiciary, the family of Behzad Moghaddam agreed to accept compensation of $62,500 instead of Nowrouzi's execution.
But not everyone is so fortunate.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/10/25/execution-of-iranian-woman/17907371/
The U.S. State Department on Saturday joined other organizations condemning the execution of an Iranian woman convicted of killing a man she said she stabbed in self-defense during a sexual assault.
Despite a robust international campaign and social media outcry, Reyhaneh Jabbari — convicted of murder in the 2007 death of a former Iranian intelligence agent — was hanged at dawn Saturday in Tehran, according to Iran's official news agency IRNA,
Iranian news media reports say Sarbandi's family insisted on their legal rights under the Islamic principle of "an eye for an eye" partly because Jabbari accused Sarbandi of being a rapist in a highly publicized media campaign.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/iran-rape-11-year-old.html
In late June, the Reformist Iranian paper Ghanoon reported an eyewitness account of a gang rape of an 11-year-old girl under a bridge in Tehran. Due to pressure from judicial officials, news outlets have not been able to follow up on the case and the crime was unfortunately largely overshadowed by the nuclear negotiations between Iran and world powers. Nevertheless, this tragic incident once again brought the issue of violence against women to the Iranian public’s attention.
Depends on a number of factors. When I was growing up, I was largely responsible for my own education. I did great in school, but I also spent a lot of time on my own, learning about the world. Most of my friends had posters of sports stars in their room: Jordan, Jackson, Rice, Payton, etc. A few of my friends had posters of civil rights leaders, like Martin, Malcolm, and Rosa. I had posters of Daniel "Chappie" James, Garrett Morgan, Langston Hughes, Elijah McCoy, and Mary McCleod Bethune. I read the biographies of Thurgood Marshall, Ben Carson, and Colin Powell. I was a bit of a nerd. Still am.
Some of it may be racism, institutional or otherwise. A lot of it is also the broad brush treatment that History gets in many public schools. A lot of it is also the inability or unwillingness of some students to take learning into their own hands.
As a largely self made black man, I didn't put too much stock into what the TV told me I should do, play, buy, watch, etc. One of my biggest goals in life is to impart that to my kids.
I think this is right. But what I was referring to earlier, is that it seems most of the taught history of black contributions to the development of the nation are framed within the context of slavery, and later, overcoming racism.
While this is incredibly important, I still don't understand why we aren't ALSO taught about great men like Bass Reeves, who's accomplishments are significant not because of his color, but because he was a fearless badass. The color of his skin is but a footnote in his story. We learn about the other great Lawmen of the time, so why is he not spoken of in the same breath as Earp and the others?
KalashniKEV
05-02-16, 17:14
Well here is a different site. In fact you can find dozens of sites for this and similar instances.
Ya got me, homey.
Due to the high prevalence of rape in third world countries, supported the fantastic sources presented, I deem them to on the same list as the Confederacy, and worthy of righteous destruction.
We should start out by targeting the top 3 rapingest hell holes on earth- South Africa, Sweden, and... the United States of America.
(trying to steer this back...)
Ya got me, homey.
Due to the high prevalence of rape in third world countries, supported the fantastic sources presented, I deem them to on the same list as the Confederacy, and worthy of righteous destruction.
We should start out by targeting the top 3 rapingest hell holes on earth- South Africa, Sweden, and... the United States of America.
(trying to steer this back...)
Well double K, you did it again. We were talking specifically about Iran. Every link I gave you specifically referenced Iran. This is because Iran is an Islamic Theocracy that practices Sharia Law, same as those "rape states" like ISIS, Saudi, etc.
And under Sharia Law, unless a woman has four male witnesses, rape become adultery which is a capital crime that often results in death. This is why so many woman in IRAN don't report being raped, they don't want to be executed.
Again we are talking about what happens in IRAN, not what happens in third world crapholes, not what happens in imaginary countries like "Islamic State" and not what happens in Bill Cosby's living room.
As for your TOP 3.
How many rape victims in the US are put to death because we are enforcing laws that declare their rape to in fact be adultery and punishable by death?
Absolutely rape is a problem in SWEDEN, who is doing the raping?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/175434/1-4-swedish-women-will-be-raped-sexual-assaults-daniel-greenfield
And yes South Africa leads the world, not surprising for a third world shit hole, especially one where Islam is the fastest growing religion.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0110/p13s1-woaf.html
South African Muslims claim that their faith is the fastest-growing religion of conversion in the country, with the number of black Muslims growing sixfold, from 12,000 in 1991 to 74,700 in 2004.
But more importantly, in the US and SWEDEN, rape victims are not put to death like they are in IRAN.
But please, let's here more about Bill Cosby and other attempts at deflection. It's actually kind of interesting that you can discern nearly each and every flaw with Saudi (and how we are actually going to go to war because we will discover they were complicit in funding the 9-11 attacks - which is true, but I doubt anyone will start a war anytime soon) and other crimes of Sunni muslim groups like ISIS, which all stem from being Islamic theocracies, or in the case of Saudi a Islamic monarchy that practices Sharia Law, but you can't find anything wrong with Iran and it's practice of Sharia Law as an Islamic Theocracy.
But hey...Bill Cosby right.
Stefan Molyneux has excellant videos on slavery, the civil war, and inequality. Watch them.
As for rape, where is the outcry about men being raped? Under many state laws, men cannot even be technically raped by the way they are written. Statistics and research studies also purposely write the questions in a way that men cannot answer to being raped. Also Kev, men are just as or more likely to be raped in the military than women. Where are the "warnings" for them? Where are the documentaries, programs, and so on for them?
This thread is once again about black soldiers in the confederate army. Further content should be clearly and narrowly focused accordingly.
I think this is right. But what I was referring to earlier, is that it seems most of the taught history of black contributions to the development of the nation are framed within the context of slavery, and later, overcoming racism.
While this is incredibly important, I still don't understand why we aren't ALSO taught about great men like Bass Reeves, who's accomplishments are significant not because of his color, but because he was a fearless badass. The color of his skin is but a footnote in his story. We learn about the other great Lawmen of the time, so why is he not spoken of in the same breath as Earp and the others?
Here is a good, short read. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768669
When you look at the history of the United States, it has not actually been that long since desegregation. Unfortunately, I think it will take several more generations and some economic changes before things really smooth out acceptance-wise between the races.
You look at me and I look pretty much like any middle-aged, balding, soulless ginger running around. You see a black person, a hispanic, or an asian and you immediately know they are 'different.' Of course that works both ways, those folks look at me and, well, they see a white guy, 'different' than them. Most folks, hell, most animals, distrust, or at the very least are wary of animals that look differently than them. I think it is going to be a while before we get past that and everyone thinks 'man' instead of 'white man' 'black man' 'brown man' 'yellow man.'
In thinking about history, I wish that more folks understood why there are large numbers of blacks in the urban areas, some of the pressures that brought them there and some of the pressures that keep many of them there. Not excusing, just understanding.
JMO
With all due respect to everyone's opinions, let's hear what the men who were there have to say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoM908FhJ5o
With all due respect to everyone's opinions, let's hear what the men who were there have to say:
I honestly never would have imagined such footage existed. With the history I was taught, nobody would have cared enough about any black people to record them and their opinions in 1930.
Of course they also didn't mention that the first black Senator was Hiram Revels in 1870 or that the first black State Rep was Joseph Rainey in the same year. In fact there was quite the freshman class in the 1870s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Representatives#First_generation_of_African-American_House_members.2C_1870.E2.80.931887
Moose-Knuckle
05-03-16, 02:03
Things like this often make me doubt that we truly know what happened before we were here. History seems to always be taught with a slant and bias, one way or the other.
"History is a set of lies agreed upon." — Napoleon Bonaparte
Moose-Knuckle
05-03-16, 02:19
Of course they also didn't mention that the first black Senator was Hiram Revels in 1870 or that the first black State Rep was Joseph Rainey in the same year. In fact there was quite the freshman class in the 1870s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Representatives#First_generation_of_African-American_House_members.2C_1870.E2.80.931887
John Hanson was a Senator from Liberia (US territory) in 1856.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hanson_(Liberia)
Here is a good, short read. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21768669
When you look at the history of the United States, it has not actually been that long since desegregation. Unfortunately, I think it will take several more generations and some economic changes before things really smooth out acceptance-wise between the races.
You look at me and I look pretty much like any middle-aged, balding, soulless ginger running around. You see a black person, a hispanic, or an asian and you immediately know they are 'different.' Of course that works both ways, those folks look at me and, well, they see a white guy, 'different' than them. Most folks, hell, most animals, distrust, or at the very least are wary of animals that look differently than them. I think it is going to be a while before we get past that and everyone thinks 'man' instead of 'white man' 'black man' 'brown man' 'yellow man.'
In thinking about history, I wish that more folks understood why there are large numbers of blacks in the urban areas, some of the pressures that brought them there and some of the pressures that keep many of them there. Not excusing, just understanding.
JMO
Yes, that was a good read and I think your comments are spot on.
The black cowboys are legendary in my neck of the woods. I just wish they received more historical attention than they do.
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