View Full Version : Shipping an AR to Class
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 11:28
I'm attending the EAG class in late September and I'm wondering what people thought was the preferred method of getting it there.
Part of the consideration is making sure it gets there on time/in one piece, but also I'm not sure what baggage fees there might be and/or might get stolen in transit.
I'll have to travel with my pistol and declare it in my checked luggage.
Should I ship my AR via USPS? or should I just fly with it?
Do you have a place to ship it to yourself at, at the location of the class?
Either way sounds like a pain, but I think that the AR will spend less time out of your possession, if you fly with it.
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 11:48
I do have a place to ship it.
I've just heard a few horror stories about guns being stolen while flying.
But you're right, either way it's ugly.
You would think the chances of your gun getting stolen are the same either way. It only takes 1 worker to do it, regardless the logo he wears.
I have flown with my AR a few times and never had a problem. But I also break my gun down and put it into a lockable sampson nite suitcase which looks like any other suitcase on the rack. A gun case creates enticement alone, stay away from it if you can...
note: beware the special treatment you'll recieve from the airport security
I do have a place to ship it.
I've just heard a few horror stories about guns being stolen while flying.
But you're right, either way it's ugly.
True, but we also just had a thread about fed-ex employees stealing guns, as well.
If it's out of your possession, it's at risk, so minimizing the time out of your hands would be the best thing you can do to mitigate that risk.
Plus if your plan crash lands on that island from "LOST", you'll know there was an AR on board somewhere :D
If you go the flying route, there was a pretty good thread on 10-8 forums recently with some tips from frequent (armed) fliers.
Plus if your plan crash lands on that island from "LOST", you'll know there was an AR on board somewhere :D
I didn't think of that :p
If it were me, I'd fly with it. Somehow I think if it came up missing they would jump on it right away as far as looking for it, especially because it is an "evil black machine gun" and they wouldn't want just "anyone" having it. I also think the idea of a lockable case that doesn't scream gun is a good idea. I flew with a rifle and pistol that I broke down and put in a Pelican case that wasn't the norm for what is associated with firearms.
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 13:30
Has anyone considered putting a locator beacon in a gun case?
Something like parents use to find their kids.
That way if the baggage claim says "sorry we can't find it". I might be able to pull out the tracker and say "it's 150 meters in that direction".
Has anyone considered putting a locator beacon in a gun case?
Something like parents use to find their kids.
That way if the baggage claim says "sorry we can't find it". I might be able to pull out the tracker and say "it's 150 meters in that direction".
best idea yet. they sell these things for under 300bux. Good Idea man, Im doin it. and will use w/ my reg luggage just for fun
Has anyone considered putting a locator beacon in a gun case?
Something like parents use to find their kids.
That way if the baggage claim says "sorry we can't find it". I might be able to pull out the tracker and say "it's 150 meters in that direction".
I'd be concerned about having an electronic device hidden away in the case, as it might draw some extra attention on the x-ray. Not to mention there is then the problem of dealing with getting the tracker through security as well (i guess you could check it too, but that might also get lost). Plus the airlines seem paranoid about anything that could possibly cause signal interference.
If you want to minimize tampering I'd try and get a non-gun shaped pelican case like Iraqgunz and Rallysoob said. Going further, you could get a non-tactical color (yellow or orange maybe) and stencil "Soil Sample Kit" or something on the case, then roll it around in some dirt.
Not that I'm an expert, but I've flown with guns a great many of times.
Some people try to make a great deal of drama out of the whole ordeal. For the most part, it isn't necessary or advised, as you have to abide by the airline's rules. Plus, if you look at the ticketing policies, they have the right to kick you off the plane for any reason, at any time, if they so choose...
At any major airport, the TSA and airline people see more firearms pass through their system per day than most people will fly in their lifetimes. Most of the major airports have dedicated areas to handle firearms, and smaller airports are usually on the less busy side that you get more of a personal touch.
Most of the time, you personally are handing your case directly to the TSA folk, and they examine it where you can keep eyes on if you wish. After that firearms cases usually move through their system much better than regular luggage, as it has been super screened by TSA and is locked. Most of the time you have to show your ID to pick it up on the receiving end in cases that are obviously weapon cases.
Having other stuff in a rifle case isn't an issue as long as it isn't ammo or loaded magazines, as gun cases are generally X-rayed, swiped, and hand inspected. You can, but those are the only things that have given me minor problems...
I'd be a little more concerned about a non-weapon case getting looked though. Since the airlines don't mark weapon cases any differently, a stealthy case is probably more likely to get looked through than a weapons case. Probably one of the few situations where having a case that screams "GUNS INSIDE!" is probably helpful...
If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft. From here. (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm)
Besides, after you see them screen your case, the TSA and Airlines usually will not open the case without you being present, I think they are not allowed to unless you cannot be reached.
From dealing with the folk at Fedex and UPS, I'd take my chances with the airlines and TSA.
Just make sure you declare it...
...But I also break my gun down and put it into a lockable sampson nite suitcase which looks like any other suitcase on the rack. A gun case creates enticement alone, stay away from it if you can...
...I'd try and get a non-gun shaped pelican case like Iraqgunz said.
Teheh?
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 16:04
I've known enough people who've flown with weapons to know it's not really a big deal, if you don't make it one.
My TSA approved case is an SKB, and unfortunately looks like a rifle case. Maybe I can paint it to look like something else. "Soil Sample Kit" might be the way to go.
I'd probably put my handgun in a different bag.
Should I bring the ammo along (in separate container)? or ship it by carrier?
John,
My ammo was in the same case as the weapons, but it was inside a smaller case that locked. Depending on how much ammo you are talking will determine how you want to go. I assume that a Pat Rogers course is probably high ammo expenditure?
Since I have a few Pelican cases it would be a no brainer for me. YSMV.
I've known enough people who've flown with weapons to know it's not really a big deal, if you don't make it one.
My TSA approved case is an SKB, and unfortunately looks like a rifle case. Maybe I can paint it to look like something else. "Soil Sample Kit" might be the way to go.
I'd probably put my handgun in a different bag.
Should I bring the ammo along (in separate container)? or ship it by carrier?
i've been traveling for business on average once/week, but often twice or more. checking guns is annoying, but not nearly as annoying as the delayed flights, canceled flights, sitting on the tarmac for 3 hours with no AC waiting to take off, the hour or two you lose before and after flying, the $3 bottle of water, etc.
anymore, if it's under 500 miles, it's just quicker and easier and often cheaper to drive. and if i can't get a non-stop flight, i'll drive further. if i have to fly through o'hare, it's not worth going.
If I were going from Pittsburgh to Raleigh (a trip I've made 3 times that I can remember), I'd definitely rent a car and drive, even though PGH is one of the nicer airports in the country and raleigh-durham is relatively pain-free. edit: the trip through WV, especially if the leaves are changing that week, is quite pleasant. good quiet time to reflect on the class
I'm going to the same class, btw.
RogerinTPA
08-25-08, 16:43
I haven't shipped a firearm in quite a while, but most Airlines make you fill out a big "Hunter's Orange" firearms tag to be displayed outside of the luggage it is contained in. Suggest using a normal firearms case. I like the pelicans...The tracker idea is a great idea and shouldn't be a problem. Most are the size of an IPOD anyway. As long as you don't activate it while in flight, there's no problem. I would turn it on to check that it made it on board when you got to your seat, after the aircraft pushes back from the gate, then turn it off. Then immediately after you clear the aircraft to ensure that its in a "Normal" baggage area in your proximity. It will take 10-15mins to unload baggage, depending on how large the aircraft is and how full it is. That is normal. Outside of that, if anything "smells suspicious, report it immediately to TSA and LEOs. FYI, direct flights are best. The more plane changes, the greater your chance of it becoming lost.
I've known enough people who've flown with weapons to know it's not really a big deal, if you don't make it one.
My TSA approved case is an SKB, and unfortunately looks like a rifle case. Maybe I can paint it to look like something else. "Soil Sample Kit" might be the way to go.
I'd probably put my handgun in a different bag.
Should I bring the ammo along (in separate container)? or ship it by carrier?
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 16:56
John,
My ammo was in the same case as the weapons, but it was inside a smaller case that locked. Depending on how much ammo you are talking will determine how you want to go. I assume that a Pat Rogers course is probably high ammo expenditure?
Since I have a few Pelican cases it would be a no brainer for me. YSMV.
Yeah, I'm thinking about 1500 rounds of ammo (carbine/handgun). But with baggage fees adding up these days, I don't know whether it makes sense to carry it on board...or maybe just a few hundred rounds.
anymore, if it's under 500 miles, it's just quicker and easier and often cheaper to drive. and if i can't get a non-stop flight, i'll drive further. if i have to fly through o'hare, it's not worth going.
Actually I wouldn't mind the drive but I've already bought my plane ticket. Renting a car (since we only have one and my wife won't let me take it) was significantly more expensive than flying (believe it or not) but probably would have been less hassle.
Thanks to everyone that's responded.
I've flown and checked in guns before. Everything went well, but just like mailing there is always some risk.
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 17:12
As an FYI to others, I called TSA and asked about the electronic tracker idea.
They told me that any electronic tracking/locator device (anything that gives off a signal) would NOT be allowed.
I haven't shipped a firearm in quite a while, but most Airlines make you fill out a big "Hunter's Orange" firearms tag to be displayed outside of the luggage it is contained in.
This is incorrect. They make you fill out a firearms tag (orange tag) which is then required to be placed inside the case. They used to place them outside I guess but it became a "steal me" tag so the regulation was changed some time ago to put the tag on the inside of the case. It basically proved that you checked the firearm in as required.
Check your specific airline for more information on their specific requirements for guns and ammo.
Also Google can disgorge lots of information, which may not be correct ;) about flying with firearms.
Chad
Not sure which airline you flew, but the tag is supposed to go inside the case, not the outside. Everytime I have flown with a firearm it was done that way. Reason being is that they do not want to broadcast what is inside.
John,
I just noticed on the TSA site that ammo can go inside with the firearm as long as it is not loaded in magazines. So buying a good small lockable container may be the solution.
I haven't shipped a firearm in quite a while, but most Airlines make you fill out a big "Hunter's Orange" firearms tag to be displayed outside of the luggage it is contained in. Suggest using a normal firearms case. I like the pelicans...The tracker idea is a great idea and shouldn't be a problem. Most are the size of an IPOD anyway. As long as you don't activate it while in flight, there's no problem. I would turn it on to check that it made it on board when you got to your seat, after the aircraft pushes back from the gate, then turn it off. Then immediately after you clear the aircraft to ensure that its in a "Normal" baggage area in your proximity. It will take 10-15mins to unload baggage, depending on how large the aircraft is and how full it is. That is normal. Outside of that, if anything "smells suspicious, report it immediately to TSA and LEOs. FYI, direct flights are best. The more plane changes, the greater your chance of it becoming lost.
RogerinTPA
08-25-08, 18:19
Like I said, its been a while. I stand corrected. Good to know info though. FYI...depending on how much is shipped, Ammo = Weight = Extra $. There may be a limit in shipping ORM. Check with your airline on the amount. If they let you ship 1500 rounds, let us know what airline for future reference.
This is incorrect. They make you fill out a firearms tag (orange tag) which is then required to be placed inside the case. They used to place them outside I guess but it became a "steal me" tag so the regulation was changed some time ago to put the tag on the inside of the case. It basically proved that you checked the firearm in as required.
Check your specific airline for more information on their specific requirements for guns and ammo.
Also Google can disgorge lots of information, which may not be correct ;) about flying with firearms.
Chad
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 18:21
I didn't know whether it could go in mags. I knew "loose" ammo was bad. I can bring about 20 mags, but I'll make sure they're unloaded.
I was pretty sure it was also acceptable in manufacturers container. I presume this means battlepacks/boxes as well.
My case can fit two rifles, should I put my pistol inside? or put it in another, less conspicuous piece of checked luggage?
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 18:45
This is interesting:
they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
PMAGs with feed lip cover? Wouldn't a tactical vest/mag pouch be ok too?
Remember TSA. Not the sharpest tools in the shed. I would just follow the simple guidelines above. Another thing to consider. Figure out what your ammo will weigh and what they will charge you for it at the airlines. Then try and price the replacement cost of that ammo at the closest gun store wo where you are going. That will let you know if the hassle is worth it.
This is interesting:
PMAGs with feed lip cover? Wouldn't a tactical vest/mag pouch be ok too?
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 18:59
Remember TSA. Not the sharpest tools in the shed. I would just follow the simple guidelines above. Another thing to consider. Figure out what your ammo will weigh and what they will charge you for it at the airlines. Then try and price the replacement cost of that ammo at the closest gun store wo where you are going. That will let you know if the hassle is worth it.
I agree... the KISSOFF principle applies.
I'm going to fly with the rifle since I have to anyway with the pistol.
Actually in thinking about it could I order the ammo online, and have them deliver it? It would definitely be easier on my back and probably price is as good as anywhere else.
Ammo is heavy, especially class sized numbers. Since you are locked into flying, if it were me, I would take my guns and gear with me, but I would either ship the ammo, or simply buy the ammo on line that I needed for the class and have it shipped to the class location.
I haven't shipped a firearm in quite a while, but most Airlines make you fill out a big "Hunter's Orange" firearms tag to be displayed outside of the luggage it is contained in.
I fly quite a bit with my weapons and the tag actually goes inside the case. What goes on the outside of the case is white TSA tape stating that the item has been inspected by the TSA. This happens right after you (or the luggage handler) runs your item through the big honking X-Ray machine.
As for cases, you can lock them with a TSA approved lock. Now supposedly only the boys and girls in the TSA should have this uber sensitive item, but some how, some way Im sure some enterprising dirt bag may just have swiped a copy (that was sarcasm. Of course they have). However having a rifle case (*cough* harddig *cough) secured with a couple of TSA locks will be about as good as if you were flying with the weapon. Why? Glad you asked. Cause the numbnuts loading your luggage know damned well that the penalty for stealing a diamond necklace is a whole lot worse than the world of shit they will be in if a firearm is reported lost or stolen. They also know its damned hard to walk from the warehouse to their car with a rifle sized case for all to see than it is to walk with a Canon EOS dSLR tucked neatly into their lunch box.
Short of the long, dont sweat it. Just ship it in a TSA locked case and the chances of it arriving at your destination are probably greater than if you shipped it via FEDEX or UPS.
As an FYI to others, I called TSA and asked about the electronic tracker idea.
They told me that any electronic tracking/locator device (anything that gives off a signal) would NOT be allowed.
Hmm, what about one that wouldnt be programmed to go off until after your plan reaches its destination? Say you have a one hour flight, you program it to start transmitting (unless disarmed) either one hour after your scheduled arrival time or if some one tries to ope it with out disarming it first? I'm seeing an opportunity here.
Gutshot John
08-25-08, 21:02
Hmm, what about one that wouldnt be programmed to go off until after your plan reaches its destination? Say you have a one hour flight, you program it to start transmitting (unless disarmed) either one hour after your scheduled arrival time or if some one tries to ope it with out disarming it first? I'm seeing an opportunity here.
I'd invest.
I Fly for a Living and some times take my AR to shoot when I get there or go to class. I have a small Pelcan like case(got from a local Gander Mtn for under $100) that a broken down AR fits in perfect. Never had a Issue with it, after I get it all checked out and the Tag inside I Lock it up with 3 padlocks and then put Duct tape on the Clasps that dont have pad locks on them and take my black sharpee and sign the Duct tape on the seams kind as a Tamper seal. I have Hunted all over the US and Africa and this trick with the Duct Tape has worked evertime.
Hope this helps
As for ammo I would have it shipped to who ever is holding your class in care of you. A lot lot likely to be "missplaced" that way.
Good luck and Enjoy your class.
Dave
PRGGodfather
08-26-08, 18:32
Pelican case and tape as tamper resistance works very well. Also, take a photo of the contents (that cell phone camera can come in handy here) before you hand it to the TSA.
While cutting out foam DOES look cheesy, the cut-outs DO help with organizing items and seeing if something is missing immediately...
Pistols should in locked Pelican cases, and then placed INSIDE other easily ID'd luggage, since this is more low profile. Rifles can stay intact with the LARGE pelican cases, since they are harder to cart off.
My Pelican 1750 has worked every year prairie doggin' in AZ. It takes a beating, holds my pistol and rifle, is as watertight as a duck's patoot and has wheels on it. I wouldn't think that would go missing too easily, but that's just MHO...
I also use a hard case for pistols (hardigg) and put it in a big luggage bag. I've had my full mags (inside the storm case) questioned at the san antonio airport, but they let me thru. Most airline check-in people, in my experience, act like they don't check firearms much and often ask another worker about it.
I swear the TSA firearms page used to specifically say you can NOT use TSA-approved locks (I wouldn't use one anyway). It does still say that only you should have the key or combo.
Before you travel:
1. check the laws of your origin (I use http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/ should be OK - plan language not actual laws)
2. check the laws of your destination
3. if you're not flying direct, check laws for where you're changing planes
4. follow them and when in doubt, err on the side of lawfulness
5. it's best to fly direct (always, for a number of reasons, unless it's really expensive)
6. check TSA regs (the website, not the page you printed last year)
7. check your airline's regs
8. print out: laws, TSA regs, airline regs, the federal firearms travel law, and have them handy at the ticket counter
9. also print out the range you're going to, if any (required for some states and it never hurts)
10. pack your guns and ammo (for handguns put the case in some luggage)
11. if combo locks, write down the combos in case you forget under stress
12. when you get to the counter, whatever you do, don't forget to declare your firearms!
Fireguy275
08-27-08, 00:59
I've flown half a dozen times this year with firearms, have not had any issues. I have taken 2 rifles and a handgun in my Storm case with minimal ammo (carry ammo). Make sure you keep the ammo in factory containers or the hard plastic ammo boxes if carrying it with your firearms.
You are limited to 11 lbs of ammo I believe. I usually hit the Walmart in town after arriviing for pistol ammo and make arrangements to have rifle ammo waiting.
Use big locks on your case, I've had 2 of the TSA locks broken off when I picked up my case.
I shipped my gear home once using UPS, but won't do that again after a buddy had his case come up MIA. If you ship UPS make sure you write your contact info on the case with a Sharpie as dishonest UPS employees have been known to rip the tracking/shipping label off.
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