Looking for a new One Car [Archive]

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MountainRaven

05-02-16, 18:20

OK, so we have the One Handgun (Glock 19), the One Rifle (Colt LE6920 or Steyr Scout), and now I'm looking for The One Car.

I've been driving a Ford Focus for as near as makes no difference a decade, with nary a problem (except a dead Cruise Control and occasional problems with getting moving in fresh snow and slush and going up hill in snow and slush - although the latter is mostly only a problem when I'm stuck behind some dick with AWD/4WD who doesn't know how to drive in snow and is crawling up the hill, while my Focus needs some forward momentum to make it up the hill).

What I'd like:

A car that's fun to drive (the Focus is fun in fresh snow, on level roadway, when I'm the only one on it - I become the world's slowest rally car driver).
A car that has some power (to clear semis on two-lane highways and climb hills).
A car that can handle snow on hills (I live in Montana - at the top of a hill).
A car that I can comfortably carry my 50-lb. dog in.
A car that is not FWD.

Cargo hauling is not a huge concern for me and I can always borrow my father's F-350 or my roommate's Forester.

And, unfortunately, funds are not unlimited. An MSRP of $30k is probably going to be my hard limit. Otherwise, I'd just buy an Audi not unlike the one my mother has (333-hp with AWD in a two-door convertible in Sport mode... is a helluva lot of fun - got to drive it last fall while I was house-sitting for my parents).

I stopped at the local Ford dealer on Saturday to peruse their selection: Saw a Fiesta ST which looked interesting, but for the FWD part (and the local Ford guys are dicks, anyway) and a couple of Mustangs, but they're all the higher-end models - except for the EcoBoost. But while the EcoBoost looks good on paper (apart from being an eco-friendly 4-cylinder Mustang - even if it does rate more than 300 horses with Premium).

And then I stopped at the local Subaru dealer to peruse theirs. As it turns out, they're open on Saturdays, so I couldn't avoid dealing with a salesman, but I did get to sit in a BR-Z. Yes, I said Montana earlier. Doesn't change the fact that I'd love to have a BR-Z or an FR-S. I also looked at the WRX they had on the lot, a couple Imprezas (a standard model and a Sport), and a Crosstrek. In talking to the Subaru guy, the BR-Z is last year's model. Apparently they don't sell well in Montana and they're hoping that they don't get any this year, so they might be willing to give me a pretty good deal on it (insofar as one can trust a car salesman to give one a good deal).

So here's what I'm looking at/thinking most seriously of:

1- The WRX. It should be fun, it should be a capable dog carrier, it should be capable of hauling butt over snow when called upon.

But from reading the Consumer Reports review, they're not super fun to drive on the road due to vague steering and they aren't as refined as other cars are (not that I'll necessarily know the difference, what with the 10-year old Focus) and I really wish they'd offer it as a hatchback. The manual transmission is apparently pretty clunky, too, which apparently makes it difficult to drive the car smoothly (which is kinda important on snow and ice - and nice for the comfort of passengers and dog). It's also going to be one of the more expensive options.

2- The BR-Z. It should be fun. Gas mileage is very respectable. Dog carrying is going to be a modest issue, as I can't just throw my dog cover over the rear bench - because the rear seat isn't a bench, it's a couple of buckets attached to a middle console (I'm sure my dog will fit fine in one of the buckets, but I'll still need to find something new to cover the rear seats - and I can probably mostly carry her up front in the front passenger seat with me, since I'm not generally hauling any people but me). My roommate also works for the local Toyota dealership, so I can play the Subaru salesguy off against my buying an FR-S or the Toyota-badged 2017 86 - both of which are essentially the same car as the Subaru, just with different badges, styling cues, and slightly different computer programming.

The issues with the BR-Z/FR-S/86 are that they're really, really low, lightweight, and RWD. Still, with the money that I can potentially not-spend (not save) over one of the other cars, between the Friends & Family discount on the FR-S/86 or the we-can't-move-this discount on the BR-Z, I imagine I can probably have enough money set aside for a set of good snows. It's actually inexpensive enough that I might, might be able to hold onto the Focus as a winter car, although registration and insurance in Montana is not cheap and I don't have any place to park an extra car.

3- The Impreza/Impreza Sport/Crosstrek. Available as a hatchback (or only as a hatchback for the Sport and Crosstrek), capable dog carrier, should be GTG in snow and in going up snow-covered hills. Plus the Crosstrek has a bit of extra clearance up front, so I should be less likely to plow snow with the front of my car and I'm less likely to damage my bumper on concrete parking lot wheel stop barrier things (whatever they're called).

But they aren't any more powerful than my Focus - at least not when my Focus was new - and if the WRX isn't any fun and it's the sportier, performance-based version of the Impreza, how much fun could these be? And the CVT is probably going to be a problem, as I seem to recall them being bloody annoying. But that's pretty much all that's available locally, because people can't drive sticks any more. Actually, I think the Sports available locally come with sticks and the Crosstrek is only available with the CVT.

4- The Mustang. I've always wanted a Mustang. They're actually fairly spacious on the inside, so there ought to be plenty of room for my dog. Fun? It's a Mustang, how can it not be fun? Better ground clearance than the BR-Z and the extra weight should help the tires get through snow to concrete.

But then there come the problems. First off, the local Ford guys are dicks, so I'll have to drive an hour or so to find someone else to buy from. The next problem is that they're pretty expensive. The EcoBoost and V6 models aren't bad on pricing, but, well, who buys an EcoBoost Mustang? From what I've been reading, they're actually pretty annoying: The engine noise is underwhelming and some genius at Ford thought it would be a good idea to pipe that engine noise into the cabin through the speakers. (This seems to be an inverse problem of one that I have with my mother's muscular Audi: Which is that despite being a softtop, the Audi is so quiet on the inside that you can barely hear the engine, even at high revs, unless you have the top down.) And you lose about 40-50 horses in the EcoBoost if you use regular fuel instead of premium, which eats into the economical aspect of its gas mileage.

And then there's the GT. You get the V8, you get the earthquake-inducing noise that the V8 makes, 435 glorious horses... and 15/25 MPG. On top of being an additional $7000 over the EcoBoost, $2000+ more than the WRX (and my spending limit), this is, in fact, the only car I've looked at that actually gets worse gas mileage than my Focus. Finally, because of the proximity of Big Sky and the construction of affordable (for trust fund baby) housing downtown, the Mustangs tend to be fully-kitted out, every option selected, and even more ridiculously expensive than is needed (I think the EcoBoost at the local dealer was the only one of the three they had below $30k) - they don't stock barebones, basic Mustangs.

And there is one final caveat: My parents. They grew up on RWD cars in North Dakota and have a very, very strong bias against RWD vehicles in snowy locales. So if I buy a RWD, whether it's the Mustang or the BR-Z or something else, and get stuck once - they will never let me hear the end of it (never mind that I've gotten stuck in my Focus more than once). In fact, they'll probably think that I'm somewhat of a prodigal son for buying a RWD car in the first place (my brother is also looking at buying a new car soon, and I'm sure he'll be making a very sensible choice - but then his chief joys are suits and watches, while I enjoy cars and guns). So as a point of pride, if a RWD car is selected, it will have to be very good in the snow. (There's also the fact that my father and I are not-short and my father insists that I cannot fit inside a Mustang. Despite having done so on multiple occasions and even fitting in the even smaller BR-Z.)

I'm also open to suggestions for other vehicles that match what I'm looking for.

Thanks!

WickedWillis

05-02-16, 18:33

For a car, Subaru's in the snow are king. The WRX is a badass little car, but in pure functionality (and comfort) the standard Impreza is more than good to go. Also, the outbacks are very nice as well. Growing up in MT it was always the people who owned Subaru's that had the best luck in bad weather. Their AWD system is awesome. If you do not go the Subaru route, front wheel drive cars are the way to go. Allows you to have much more control in icy/snow/slushy conditions if AWD is not available.

Hmac

05-02-16, 18:34

I drive a 370Z. It's a blast, and IMHO far more fun that any you listed above (I haven't driven the Impreza), but a 335 HP RWD sports car with manual transmission and minimal ground clearance is not suited for Minnesota winters. Mine goes in the garage under a cover at the very first snowflake and I turn the 2500HD into a daily driver.

I would opt for the WRX, personally.

SilverBullet432

05-02-16, 18:35

Stang 5.0hhhh

WickedWillis

05-02-16, 18:36

Stang 5.0hhhh

It goes nowhere in bad, unpredictable weather.

Leaveammoforme

05-02-16, 18:38

Subaru AWD all they way. What ever flavor is your choice. Rear wheel drive cars with open differentials are worthless.

dwhitehorne

05-02-16, 18:43

Father in law had a Subaru wagon for about 8 years. He never had any trouble with it and it was great in the snow. Good luck with your choice. David

HKGuns

05-02-16, 18:45

Mustang is by far the most bang for your performance $$. The new IRS puts them even further ahead of most of the competition.

ETA: The Focus RS is hard to argue with if you need AWD. Subaru schmubaru, the RS would eat any Subaru's lunch twice before it broke a sweat.

Rayrevolver

05-02-16, 18:52

Save up for the Focus RS.

I just sold my SVT Focus yesterday. Sad to see it go but plan to replace it with an RS in a few years.

http://roa.h-cdn.co/assets/16/04/980x490/landscape-1454085635-tunerlede.jpg

Outlander Systems

05-02-16, 18:53

****ing Stang.

The 2015+ are bad as ****.

jpmuscle

05-02-16, 18:59

Z28. End of discussion

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Kenneth

05-02-16, 19:26

Wrx STi. Most fun you will have in a wagon.

I had a 2011 for awhile and it was a blast. 6 speed, AWD, turbo and room for a lot of stuff. They don't get good gas mileage but they keep going and going no matter the conditions.

Add a Cobb stage one kit and then you can really mess with the V8 muscle.

NOW for the sad truth. Nothing beats the V8 rumble :) driving the STi was a blast but couldn't get used to it (always had V8 cars).

My next car will be a charger SCAT pack for the record. Seats 5 with huge trunk and almost 500hp.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FlyingHunter

05-02-16, 19:31

Bought my wife a 2016 Mustang 5.0 and it's incredible; we like to laugh about our spg or smiles per gallon. I'm down South so I have no idea about snow capabilities. I can tell you it will drift on hot dry pavement if the 435 horses have their way. Most fun I've had with a car in a long time.

wildcard600

05-02-16, 19:33

The suby BR-Z and keep the focus.

Firefly

05-02-16, 19:46

Averageman

05-02-16, 19:46

It goes nowhere in bad, unpredictable weather.

This !
I've owned two Mustang GT's and I'm sure I will catch some heat for this, but in bad road conditions 400+ Horse Power just means your odds of going in to the ditch are that much better.
The design is made for dry road conditions, rain, high winds and traffic all at the same time turn a fun car in to a nightmare.

HKGuns

05-02-16, 19:52

I wanted a Mustang until I saw enough of them wrecked out. Camaros fared slightly better. Pretty cars but I'm turned off to them.

I'd sooner have that new, allegedly "mil-spec", Ford Expedition or that one new Jeep.

I still think they are pretty cars, and were I wealthy, I'd have an older Mach One

?? Mustangs have fared very well in recent crash testing.

Mustang Crash Tests (http://www.lotpro.com/cars/new/ford/mustang/safety/?PageSpeed=noscript)

signal4l

05-02-16, 19:53

I drove a Honda CRV for almost 13 years. I highly recommend them. Easy to haul dog, kids around. Decent mileage. The AWD was fun in the snow. I just sold it to a neighbor for 25% of what I paid. Resale value is excellent

nml

05-02-16, 19:54

1- The WRX. ... But from reading the Consumer Reports review, they're not super fun to drive on the road due to vague steering and they aren't as refined as other cars are (not that I'll necessarily know the difference, what with the 10-year old Focus) and I really wish they'd offer it as a hatchback. The manual transmission is apparently pretty clunky, too, which apparently makes it difficult to drive the car smoothly (which is kinda important on snow and ice - and nice for the comfort of passengers and dog). It's also going to be one of the more expensive options.

2- The BR-Z.
3- The Impreza/Impreza Sport/Crosstrek.
4- The Mustang.1- Consumer Reports is good for refrigerators I'm sure. WRX steering is fantastic, PLENTY smooth at triple digits and a nice ratio and rack weight for fast turns. The latest generation is much more refined than past years. Much much more quiet, bluetooth and other amenities. Aero leaves some to be desired at high speeds but that is mostly ride height and practical interior room (compared to smaller lower sports cars). The non-STI transmission is a bit clunky compared to past years and other cars, but it works and is not a deal breaker frankly.

2- It is slow. Unless you are driving on winding roads non-stop it is not a highway car.
3- Even slower. Really slow.
4- I have not driven a new Mustang so I will not say anything other than it would not be my first (or second or third) vehicle for driving in snow.

Firefly

05-02-16, 20:05

?? Mustangs have fared very well in recent crash testing.

Mustang Crash Tests (http://www.lotpro.com/cars/new/ford/mustang/safety/?PageSpeed=noscript)

Hmm. I haven't seen a new one crash. But the early 2000s ones are what have left me a bit turned off. They may have refined them but the ones of that generation put me off.

I'm not into sports cars anymore anyway.

26 Inf

05-02-16, 20:26

Trust me, do this:

http://www.vwtopeka.com/vehicle-details/2016-volkswagen-gti-2-0t-autobahn-4-door-topeka-ks-id-12290884

We'll meet for lunch and I'll fill your tank for the trip north.

HKGuns

05-02-16, 20:52

Trust me, do this:

http://www.vwtopeka.com/vehicle-details/2016-volkswagen-gti-2-0t-autobahn-4-door-topeka-ks-id-12290884

We'll meet for lunch and I'll fill your tank for the trip north.

Come on 26th, you're smarter than that aren't you? What do you think the performance will be on that vehicle after the Germans fix their emissions cheating?

[Not competitive or good.]

Kenneth

05-02-16, 20:52

Oh crap man look for a Forester. Same turbo engine and with mods can be down right nasty. Tons of room and AWD! You will find Subaru has a huge following and usually they are taking care of when found used. They are made to race but honestly it's a specialty group of people who get them.

It's not like the Camaro and mustang guys who are constantly on the pedal and racing everything with exhaust on it. (I know. Owned a '00 GT with every bolt on imaginable and a fully built '96 Trans am). Don't get me wrong they were great cars and built well but I drove the living hell out of them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vandal

05-02-16, 20:57

Come on 26th, you're smarter than that aren't you? What do you think the performance will be on that vehicle after the Germans fix their emissions cheating?

[Not competitive or good.]

GTI not TDI, that is gas powered, not diesel.

OP, I forgot to mention this in my PM but the Forester XT is something to look at too. 250HP from the WRX engine under the hood and the same CVT automatic with Si-Drive. 8.7" of clearance and Subaru's AWD.

Disclosure: I work for a Subaru dealer.

Collegefour

05-02-16, 21:08

GTI not TDI, that is gas powered, not diesel.

OP, I forgot to mention this in my PM but the Forester XT is something to look at too. 250HP from the WRX engine under the hood and the same CVT automatic with Si-Drive. 8.7" of clearance and Subaru's AWD.

Disclosure: I work for a Subaru dealer.

I do NOT work for a Subaru dealer, and my daily is an 01 BMW 3 series. I had a 2011 Forester XT, and it was almost as fun to drive as the Bimmers. It is an SUV, and comes with the limitations thereof (top heavy, higher curb weight, lower gas mileage), but it was fun to drive and very practical reference hauling dogs, kids, etc., and getting around in snow (I live at 7000 feet in the Rockies).

MountainRaven

05-02-16, 21:16

GTI not TDI, that is gas powered, not diesel.

OP, I forgot to mention this in my PM but the Forester XT is something to look at too. 250HP from the WRX engine under the hood and the same CVT automatic with Si-Drive. 8.7" of clearance and Subaru's AWD.

Disclosure: I work for a Subaru dealer.

I hadn't seen the XT.

Now that is interesting....

Although I really don't understand why Subaru hates light colored interiors. Makes me glad I don't live in Yuma, any more. Not that our summers are super cool, here, though.

26 Inf

05-02-16, 21:45

Come on 26th, you're smarter than that aren't you? What do you think the performance will be on that vehicle after the Germans fix their emissions cheating?

[Not competitive or good.]

Those aren't sold with the TDI (diesel).

The autobahns I believe go out the door at 240hp out of a turbo 4; car and driver ranked it #1 out of the sport compacts it tested; get it with a 6 speed manual, put better tires on it after you wear off the first set and have some fun if you like to DRIVE without spending a fortune.

SkiDevil

05-02-16, 21:56

For the driving conditions that you described it would be hard to beat a Subaru.

Most mountain areas have a prevalence of various All Wheel Drives, particularly the Subaru.

For 30K that brand is going to offer alot.

As for the Mustang, I bought a 2015 GT last year. Amazing ride and alot of fun on the road. Not really the best choice for snow. I always preferred a 4WD pick-up for snow.

MountainRaven

05-02-16, 22:11

Trust me, do this:

http://www.vwtopeka.com/vehicle-details/2016-volkswagen-gti-2-0t-autobahn-4-door-topeka-ks-id-12290884

We'll meet for lunch and I'll fill your tank for the trip north.

Thanks, but... FWD. D:

I've been driving a FWD for the last ten years, wishing that I had AWD or 4WD or RWD, I don't want to spend another ten doing the same.

(And I went from driving my mother's 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4x4, V8, to driving the Focus. I kind of liked that Jeep. But then Jeep went to shit and got really expensive.)

Pilgrim

05-02-16, 22:39

Nothing but praise for my wife's 2014 Ford Escape 2.5. Great gas mileage, plenty of space, and sweet handling. We are mainly a Toyota family... But were surprised to find the Escape was a better car than the Rav4 for our needs. We also have a Tacoma, Camry, and Corolla... Love every one of them, and if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd buy new models of each... Especially the Tacoma, I'll drive one for the rest of my life no doubt.

crusader377

05-02-16, 22:54

I think there are a lot of good options out their. I personally would look at a lightly used corporate vehicle. The last two cars I purchased where corporate vehicles and I paid roughly 2/3rd of the MSRP on each car with 10,700 and 12,500 miles respectively.

Although I think every member here gave some good options many of which I would second, going the lightly used route I would like to add a few to the table.

Infiniti G37AWD, 2014-15
Volvo S60 T5 AWD 2014 or 15
Hyundai Genesis 2015 (new body style) or 2013-14 Genesis 5.0L r spec (great stealth fast sedan with 425+ hp)
Dodge Charger/Challenger with the hemi

On the VWs mentioned earlier, I would strongly advised a lightly used one because of the Diesel gate their resale value have collapsed. I picked up a corporate 2015 Passat 1.8T (gas powered) with 12.5K miles on it for $15,800 (MSRP 25,300)

Bulletdog

05-02-16, 23:37

Can I vote Tacoma? I have zero use for a sedan of any kind.

Moose-Knuckle

05-03-16, 01:46

Can I vote Tacoma? I have zero use for a sedan of any kind.

I'll second this.

Since we can't get the Hilux cause we are free and all, I'll say the Tacoma is to trucks in the US as G19s are to combat handguns.

Pilot1

05-03-16, 07:53

My close friend, and shooting partner just bought a used 2013 Ford Focus ST. He got it for under $20K with 17K miles on it and it is FULLY loaded. I helped him put a CAI in it last week, and it also has a custom exhaust. It really rips. I've driven it and it is a hoot. It is a practical car as it is four door, has a hatch back, and the back seats fold down. However, as you know, it is front wheel drive. I lived in Colorado for several years, but I have a Jeep Wrangler, so snow was no problem. I think everyone in Boulder had a Subaru. I'd probably go Jeep or Subaru AWD if I were in your shoes.

26 Inf

05-03-16, 09:28

Thanks, but... FWD. D:

I've been driving a FWD for the last ten years, wishing that I had AWD or 4WD or RWD, I don't want to spend another ten doing the same.

(And I went from driving my mother's 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4x4, V8, to driving the Focus. I kind of liked that Jeep. But then Jeep went to shit and got really expensive.)

I get your desire for AWD, but I don't get your FWD hate. You say you want something that goes in snow, but want a RWD? WTF? I have a beater Escort with over 200,000 on it that has hauled my ass through numerous winter storms in the 20 some years I've owned it. It gets driven in the winter while the RWDs I've owned (and own) stay parked.

Today's FWD's are reliable as hell and certainly the brands we are talking about have corrected any of the throttle on, throttle off steering issues associated with FWD's long ago. I'd a lot rather flog a FWD around our driving course than a fvcking Charger.

But you know what, we aren't all the same. Good luck.

MountainRaven

05-03-16, 09:38

I get your desire for AWD, but I don't get your FWD hate. You say you want something that goes in snow, but want a RWD? WTF? I have a beater Escort with over 200,000 on it that has hauled my ass through numerous winter storms in the 20 some years I've owned it. It gets driven in the winter while the RWDs I've owned (and own) stay parked.

Today's FWD's are reliable as hell and certainly the brands we are talking about have corrected any of the throttle on, throttle off steering issues associated with FWD's long ago. I'd a lot rather flog a FWD around our driving course than a fvcking Charger.

But you know what, we aren't all the same. Good luck.

Howdy,

Which is really unfortunate, because we should all be more like Paul.

;)

soulezoo

05-03-16, 10:20

Just another suggestion, you previously mentioned a like for Mom's Audi...

You can get low mileage Audi's with Quattro in your price range. A4's, Q3, Q5...

brickboy240

05-03-16, 10:32

Find a lightly used Volvo Cross Country wagon.

Volvo's AWD cars are really grippy in the wet stuff. They also get better mileage than the mid sized SUVs. It is comfortable on long trips, can carry bikes and kayaks and is pretty quick and fun to drive.

They also can run forever. We recently sold one with over 300k on the clock and it was still running great. Wife wanted something different but we now really miss the Cross Country.

26 Inf

05-03-16, 11:43

Howdy,

Which is really unfortunate, because we should all be more like Paul.

;)

Well, yeah, that just goes without saying.

scooter22

05-03-16, 11:50

2010 BMW E92 M3

officerX

05-03-16, 11:56

GTI not TDI, that is gas powered, not diesel.

OP, I forgot to mention this in my PM but the Forester XT is something to look at too. 250HP from the WRX engine under the hood and the same CVT automatic with Si-Drive. 8.7" of clearance and Subaru's AWD.

Disclosure: I work for a Subaru dealer.

I had about set myself to buy a 2016 Honda CR-V in the next year or two, as I love Honda. But now I'm leaning toward a Forester 2.0XT Touring! I just have no experience whatsoever with Subaru. How's their reliability stack up against Honda? I need a good combo of reliability, MPG, cargo room, ground clearance and AWD.

Vandal

05-03-16, 12:16

Subaru has a history of head gasket issues, largely effecting the 1998-2005 model years. You could count on replacing them a few time during ownership. More recently we have had some engines with oil consumption issues as the piston rings didn't get installed correctly at the factory. Those seem to have been worked out pretty well. All manufacturers have their issues. I've been with Subaru now for 5 years. I know of several Subarus in my area with well over 300k on NA and forced induction engines. Honda, Toyota and Subaru will all last a long time if you do your part and maintain them. We have a STI with 146k in the shop right now that I sold a year ago. We drained lass than a quart of oil from it, sand/dirt in the turbo inlet pipe. Utterly beat to hell and needs a completely new engine. That STI was traded in with 130k in fantastic shape and ran perfectly.

At the end of the day, they are machines and sometimes they break hard. They are built by people and have thousands of parts. Pick a brand and I've hear or seen a horror story about it.

Striker

05-03-16, 12:23

In mountain snow country, RWD is the last thing I would think of driving as a daily driver. Mustang and Camaro are awesome cars, but to me, don't really make sense in mountain/snow country. IMO, the cars that best fit your situation are the Subaru WRX STI or the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (AWD, fast, back seat for the dog etc.).

Vandal

05-03-16, 12:39

AKDoug

05-03-16, 21:06

My last rear wheel drive car was in 1987. In this country, if you can't afford an AWD you drive a FWD in the winter. I know folks with Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers that all park them in the winter. Of course, 1987 was the last time I've owned a car at all. It's been one Jeep Cherokee and pickups since then for me. My wife is a mini-van person. She's on her third (two Windstars and a current Caravan) FWD mini-van and with snow tires they are ridiculously capable cars. There is zero cool factor in a mini-van (probably below zero) but holy cow can you pack a ton of shit into one. When my kids and I head to the range, we steal the Caravan.. I figure the dozen AR-15's in the back bring me back into the positive cool range while driving the mom-van.

Subarus are immensely popular up here. Most of my friends that have them get by with all season radials even in the snow. If I ever had to buy a car in snow country, it'd be a Subaru or a Mercedes AWD.

soulezoo

05-03-16, 21:17

My wife has an E350 4matic. Wonderful car but out of the price range.

C-grunt

05-03-16, 21:50

The WRX doesn't have a cult following because it isn't fun to drive.

My 2006 WRX was the best car I've ever had. Very reliable, got okay gas mileage, and after a stage 2 tune was pushing out 310 HP and 420 Lbft at the crank.

The new FA20DT motor has a twin scroll turbo which makes it spool much faster and gives it good low range torque. Those motors with a stage 2 tune are putting down over 400 HP at the crank while getting 30 mpg.

C-grunt

05-03-16, 21:54

Not to mention how well they do in the snow.

I drove my WRX in the snow a few times in northern Az and it did pretty well on summer performance tires.

militarymoron

05-03-16, 22:16

MountainRaven

05-04-16, 00:06

I think this weekend, I'm going to see if I can test drive the Forester XT and a WRX - if they'll let me (their WRXs are all sticks and while I know how to drive sticks and have done it in the past, it's been a couple of years).

With just the reading, I'm leaning base model WRX, right now. I just wish Subaru did a f___in' hatchback WRX....

glocktogo

05-04-16, 00:31

I'd vote for:
1. Forester XT
2. WRX (not the STI).

If only the Crosstrek had more power - I'd pick that if there was an XT version. I like the looks of it better than the Forester. Nope on the BRZ. The rear seats fold down flat to make a large trunk are where your dog can lie down, but i wouldn't drive it in the snow. BRZ ground clearance also sucks. Not a very practical car but a lot of fun in the twisties. Outbacks are nice but only if you get the 3.6 engine. The 2.5 is too slow for a man.

You can go crazy on mods with a Subi...huge aftermarket support.

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2015/video-500-horsepower-subaru-forester-xt-little-tujunga-one-take/

Lot's of Forester vids too - just check them out on YT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBaUCHiJxxs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfpr6vYZ_U0

I couldn't have said it better. I'd love to have the new Focus RS for it's all out hoonability, but I'd actually buy a non-STI WRX first. If the pavement is anywhere nears as broken and torturous there as it is where I live, the STI or RS would break your back and be far less livable on a daily basis. 35 years of driving and my 03' WRX is still the funnest car I've ever owned.

ramairthree

05-04-16, 01:16

Charger 5.7 Hemi AWD

Roomy as hell,
Can even buckle up three in the back without crushing them.

Rides great and comfortable,
But has power.

Huge trunk,
Like duffel bag of cash, cash of beer, kilo of blow, and two dead hookers big.

Lots of cop accessories for it like push bars, gun racks, etc.

C-grunt

05-04-16, 02:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVA7_6uzZ0

This video does a good job of explaining why the WRX is such a popular car. Confidence. Pure confidence in the machine.

And just for fun a couple videos of my friends Global Time Attack 2003 WRX at the drag strip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xmxkU1qRA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3iTwnG7OwA

MountainRaven

05-07-16, 19:53

Test drove a WRX and a Forester XT today.

And since it's been a few years since I've driven a stick, the salesguy drove it out of the lot. And promptly took me through a small valley road with lots of twists and turns and really gave the car a thrashing. I didn't think it was possible for me to get car sick just sitting in a car. I even managed to get the car back to the lot without dropping the tranny. But man was it a lot of fun!

The Forester XT was OK. Not as much fun as the WRX, much more fun than my Focus and more fun than my father's new Ford Escape Titanium that I test drove earlier this week - even though both the XT and the Ti have 2.0L 4-cylinder turbocharged engines generating ~240-hp, the XT's Sport and Sport Sharp modes plus flappy-paddle gearbox really helped with the fun factor, vice the Ti.

I'm defo leaning toward the WRX.

Kenneth

05-07-16, 22:46

Now go drive an STi [emoji48]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Firefly

05-07-16, 23:07

jpmuscle

05-07-16, 23:15

Vandal

05-08-16, 00:12

Those 4Runner, Tacoma and Tundra TRD Pros are pretty sick.

Firefly

05-08-16, 00:14

That's unfortunate. I actually like the new explorers, atleast from an aesthetics standpoint.

And the Toyota tundra in dark earth is pretty legit too IMO.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I had high hopes but they are clearly in the territory of soccer moms and yuppies.

They are "crossover"s They aren't meant to be lifted and so on.
If I get an SUV I want an SUV.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

05-08-16, 01:38

I sold my 06 Ram for an 09 Forrester. I hated it. Bought a 13 Tundra and never looked back. The WRX is cool, but that Forrester is a lesbaru all the way.

Irish

05-08-16, 08:36

I've got an 2014 Impreza Sport and it runs like a champ through the ice and snow here in central NY. The Subaru AWD system coupled with the low slung Boxer engine are the business in lousy weather conditions. The CVT took a little while to get used to, but I don't really notice it now. I'm 6' 3" and have plenty of legroom if that's a concern. I average 29 mpg on the freeway and I have a lead foot.

MountainRaven

05-08-16, 14:03

Now go drive an STi [emoji48]

-Outside of my budget
-Have to drive a couple of hours to get to one
-It seems that the current generation STIs are not especially better than the current generation WRX

Also: The local dealer is expecting their first 2017 WRX to arrive in June. But it's not the base model - and I want the base model (lighter, more headroom (due to a lack of moon roof and while my 6'6" frame did fit in the '16 WRX Premium they had on the lot, there wasn't a lot of space between my melon and the roof - the extra 2.6" from the deleted moonroof would be welcome), and less expensive).

Also-also: Turns out that the local Subaru dealership is owned by the same guy who owns the Toyota dealership. So my plan to play the Toyota and Subaru dealerships off each other on the BR-Z and FR-S wouldn't have worked anyway.

Kenneth

05-08-16, 14:17

Lol when I bought my '12 Dodge Ram I drove it in a several hour radius looking for a better deal. Needless to say they almost are all owned by the same people around here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mkmckinley

05-08-16, 14:39

I was in the same boat and went with a WRX base. It's nice to have 4 doors with the dog and AWD is nice in the snow/dirt roads. Coming from an S2000 the handling isn't that bad. I considered the Mustang but just felt like the WRX was more practical. As far as the STI the power is at higher revs. One thing I didn't like about the S2K was feeling like I had to drive the shit out of it to get into the power band and wanted something with more low end. The base WRX's power starts at lower RPM and just stays there. I also get 28-32mpg easily if I don't drive like an asshole. At no time have I wished I'd gotten the STi.

Big A

05-08-16, 15:57

I am not in the market for a new truck but the newer Ford Exploders are actually a lot gayer than previously thought

Mpg notwithstanding I sorta want one of those Toyota 4 Runners in Magpul FDE

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20150828/556fdafbd3c0543840afdf763569699e.jpg

That's unfortunate. I actually like the new explorers, atleast from an aesthetics standpoint.

And the Toyota tundra in dark earth is pretty legit too IMO.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Just a general FYI, the new Exploders are Taurus SHO's that had 3 kids and hasn't seen the gym since.

If you want a true body on frame honest to God, midsize SUV the 4Runner is basically your only option. (There is also the Nissan Xterra but, c'mon...)

I'd love it if Chevy made a Blazer off the new Colorado with a ZR2 version to match the ZR2 Colorado coming out soon.

markdh720

05-08-16, 18:13

My wife and I loved my Subaru Legacy so much we got her a Crosstrek. Both ride very well and both laugh at inclement weather. I prefer the Legacy and wanted to get her a WRX, but she likes something that rides a little higher.

That being said, I used work for Toyota a decade ago. If i wanted a truck, I'd be all over a Tundra or Tacoma.

Hank6046

05-08-16, 19:08

Just a general FYI, the new Exploders are Taurus SHO's that had 3 kids and hasn't seen the gym since.

If you want a true body on frame honest to God, midsize SUV the 4Runner is basically your only option. (There is also the Nissan Xterra but, c'mon...)

I'd love it if Chevy made a Blazer off the new Colorado with a ZR2 version to match the ZR2 Colorado coming out soon.

While I mostly agree with your opinion, ( I have been driving my 05 Xterra for the last 7 years, which has been my favorite car I've owned thus far), I think the new 4Runner is a far better SUV then the Explorer, mainly because it is built for the purpose of being an SUV, verse a CUV with Torque Vectoring and no actual 2 speed transfer case.
However, a 4Runner is not nearly as fun as a WRX for the road. In a year (hopefully) we will be moving out to a smaller community were we can afford more land and aren't dealing with all of the issues of the modern urban society plus less taxes, and I was thinking of a used Suby for the commute.

mkmckinley

05-08-16, 19:36

Mpg notwithstanding I sorta want one of those Toyota 4 Runners in Magpul FDE

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20150828/556fdafbd3c0543840afdf763569699e.jpg

Somebody at work just got one of those and it looks Fing awesome. If I had any desire to own an SUV one of these would be at the top of the list. It makes me I wonder if I should get my Subaru dipped in FDE.

To the OP: Here's a biweekly podcast that does a pretty good job of helping people decide on cars based on their needs. I found it helpful.
(http://www.everydaydriver.com/)

Vandal

05-08-16, 21:02

-Outside of my budget
-Have to drive a couple of hours to get to one
-It seems that the current generation STIs are not especially better than the current generation WRX

Also: The local dealer is expecting their first 2017 WRX to arrive in June. But it's not the base model - and I want the base model (lighter, more headroom (due to a lack of moon roof and while my 6'6" frame did fit in the '16 WRX Premium they had on the lot, there wasn't a lot of space between my melon and the roof - the extra 2.6" from the deleted moonroof would be welcome),.

OP, Order one. From the day we submit the order Subaru had been quoting us 60-90 days on WRXs. They usually arrive around the 60 day mark. Then you get the car set up exactly how you'd like, color, options accessories and not have to pay extra labor for installation. I see you're in what I assume to be SW Montana. PM me where you live, if you're with in 200 miles of Spokane I'll make you a hell of a deal on a WRX. We just sold our last 2016. It lasted 3 days on the lot.

JackFanToM

05-08-16, 21:11

My xterra pro4x just doesn't seem to notice the existence of snow. I drove through all sorts of snow in South Dakota, but now I find myself in Texas and questioning why I'm driving this tank around [emoji4], but it sure is a fun vehicle off road and in bad weather.

jpmuscle

05-08-16, 21:12

l8apex

05-08-16, 23:01

C-grunt

05-09-16, 01:48

Eurodriver

05-09-16, 07:13

Find a TRD Pro 4Runner & buy it, then worry about everything else in life other than your vehicle - like where the next hunting trip or exploration is going to be. This has been my route since getting mine. YMMV - have fun doing the search.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/c5b6d9d86cdb97deb676e27b0c1d4027.jpg

If Im dropping $45k on a vehicle it's going to be made in Germany and allow me to set the radar guided cruise control at 155 while using the forward looking NV for hazards.

If I want to go places I would, and did, simply buy a 10 year old TJ.

Never understood why people buy super expensive 4x4s.

Unless it's a G Class. I could rock me a G class.

MountainRaven

05-09-16, 12:26

My parents confuse me.

They look at me sideways when I say that I want to have a car that's fun to drive... but they own a Ford Escape Titanium (because it's the most powerful version of the Escape) , a 333-hp convertible two-door Audi, and a 1957 T-bird.

In my father's effort to dissuade me from acquiring a WRX, he reminded me that one of my cousins owned one and told me that he and my uncle hated it. It was a 2005. I contacted my cousin about it. His response was, in essence, "LOL, what? I loved that car, I don't know what your dad is talking about. I highly recommend it."

OP, Order one. From the day we submit the order Subaru had been quoting us 60-90 days on WRXs. They usually arrive around the 60 day mark. Then you get the car set up exactly how you'd like, color, options accessories and not have to pay extra labor for installation. I see you're in what I assume to be SW Montana. PM me where you live, if you're with in 200 miles of Spokane I'll make you a hell of a deal on a WRX. We just sold our last 2016. It lasted 3 days on the lot.

That would be awesome, but I don't live within 200 miles of Spokane. D:

C-grunt

05-09-16, 12:39

I know several people that have owned or currently own a WRX. Some moved on to different cars because of family/needs/lifestyle changes and others moved on to higher end sports cars. Never known a person to hate their WRX.

I looked very very hard at the 4Runner. I was going to get the Trail Edition. If my father in law hadn't offered me an insanely great deal on his 24 foot Starcraft camper, I would be driving one now. But I do love my Tundra TRD Off Road.

brushy bill

05-09-16, 13:33

that new, allegedly "mil-spec", Ford Expedition

I googled it, but came up with nothing...got a link?

Big A

05-09-16, 13:59

My parents confuse me.

They look at me sideways when I say that I want to have a car that's fun to drive... but they own a Ford Escape Titanium (because it's the most powerful version of the Escape) , a 333-hp convertible two-door Audi, and a 1957 T-bird.

In my father's effort to dissuade me from acquiring a WRX, he reminded me that one of my cousins owned one and told me that he and my uncle hated it. It was a 2005. I contacted my cousin about it. His response was, in essence, "LOL, what? I loved that car, I don't know what your dad is talking about. I highly recommend it."

That would be awesome, but I don't live within 200 miles of Spokane. D:

You will be hard pressed to find something that is more fun to drive in that price range than a new WRX.

I googled it, but came up with nothing...got a link?

Ford was trying to get a Mil contract back in 2012 to replace the HumVee's but nothing seems to have come of it.

glocktogo

05-09-16, 16:11

I sold my 06 Ram for an 09 Forrester. I hated it. Bought a 13 Tundra and never looked back. The WRX is cool, but that Forrester is a lesbaru all the way.

That's because they stopped making the best Forester, the XT Sport in 2008. If I could find one in WR Pearl Blue with an auto trans and under 60K on the odometer, I'd buy it ASAP!

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Meb4dd8dc2157bd746c9f1a8fa2f9f4cco0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

They need to bring it back with one significant change, on the fly adjustable ride height. Sadly, Subaru is notorious for NOT giving the enthusiast customers what they want, specifically because they prefer catering to their granola munching flannel clad customers. :(

Vandal

05-09-16, 17:49

Firefly

05-09-16, 17:55

I googled it, but came up with nothing...got a link?

No sorry. Except for Ford Fleet. It was kind of a bad inside joke about the newer Ford Exploders competing against the Tahoe in the police "SUV" market. They have all this crap and I recall dude saying "yep these are some mil-spec popo mom mobiles"

The only authentic 'mil spec' truck was that one K5 Blazer that sometimes get sold at auction.

http://www.ford.com/fordpoliceinterceptor/

There's the link. They look gayer than Dodges. If I still cared, I'd say bring back Crown Vics

glocktogo

05-09-16, 20:14

I'll put some perspective on that. Last year Subaru sold a little over 600,000 cars 33,000 were WRXS and STIs. Toyota sold over 2 million!

They own 5% or so of the market. Those granola crunchers and others buy our volume cars so we can keep building the WRX, STi and BRZ.

Things like the Legacy Spec B and Forester XT sport were built in low numbers for production racing globally. That was the reason they existed. I have a list of people looking for 02-08 WRX, STI and the "classic" Baja. For some reason when they come in in decent shape we call and now people can't come in.

Subie has

That's an interesting thought, but I think it has more to do with corporate vision than economics. Toyota may sell over three times as many cars, but their "performance" market share is almost non existent (future rebirth of the Supra notwithstanding). Even the FT-86 platform is just a study in styling and balance, because Subaru and Toyota steadfastly refuse to give it any performance chops.

Ford, GM, FCA and even Nissan better understand enthusiast drivers. They also understand that many enthusiast car purchasers may go through many cycles in their span of car ownership. From the crap box they can barely afford, performance car they can finally afford, family car they suddenly need, luxury car that suits their late middle years desire, back to the performance/sports car they want to recapture their youth with.

Subaru has something special in the WRX, but time won't stand still for it. If they're not careful, they'll find themselves lagging behind and losing overall market share, simply because they're not luring in the enthusiast anymore. I may have only bought one WRX, but because I'm "the car guy" in my circle of friends and family, Subaru also sold a Forester, an Outback and two Legacy sedans. All on the strength of my knowledge and experience with the brand.

When it came time to replace the WRX, Subaru didn't have what we needed, at least not compared to the advancements other brands had developed. We wound up with a Lexus and that led to another Lexus. Not that Subaru has gone downhill, quite the opposite. They just haven't advanced at the same pace.

When my wife's car got totaled last year, we took another hard look at Subaru. The EyeSight system was a strong selling point and she wanted AWD again. Coming out of a luxury sedan and wanting more room, but still appreciating performance, we wanted to test drive a 3.6R Limited (only because they won't put the WRX engine in it). Not a single example in the state to test drive. The dealerships kept wanting to put us in a 2.5i, ignoring our needs because "most Legacy buyers are completely satisfied with the 2.5i." :(

We considered another WRX, but were ultimately turned off by the experience. Another negative was comparing the mediocre service we had from the local Subie dealer vs the stellar service at Lexus. We got another Lexus instead (IS 300 AWD), even though we'd have preferred spending less on a Subie that matched our needs.

Anyway, Subaru doesn't have a problem selling all the cars it wants to make. They don't want to be a major manufacturer and that's fine. I'm still bummed that they won't expand the performance side of their brand, because I wouldn't hesitate to own another one IF they'd make what I know they're capable of. :(

militarymoron

05-09-16, 20:59

When my wife's car got totaled last year, we took another hard look at Subaru. The EyeSight system was a strong selling point and she wanted AWD again. Coming out of a luxury sedan and wanting more room, but still appreciating performance, we wanted to test drive a 3.6R Limited (only because they won't put the WRX engine in it). Not a single example in the state to test drive. The dealerships kept wanting to put us in a 2.5i, ignoring our needs because "most Legacy buyers are completely satisfied with the 2.5i." :(

I'm still bummed that they won't expand the performance side of their brand, because I wouldn't hesitate to own another one IF they'd make what I know they're capable of. :(

We have a 2013 outback 3.6R with eyesight; as I mentioned before, the 2.5i just doesn't have enough power unless you drive like a granny in the slow lane. the 3.6R is pretty peppy for what it is. i agree with you that subaru neglects the performance side of their brand in the U.S.

Japan gets all sorts of different STI models; i don't think that they'd have trouble selling them here if they offered them in limited numbers. if they had offered an STI version of the BRZ here with factory turbo, i'd have gladly paid extra for it. that being said, i have a supercharger on my 2013 BRZ which makes the car 'complete' IMHO.

brushy bill

05-09-16, 21:20

No sorry. Except for Ford Fleet. It was kind of a bad inside joke about the newer Ford Exploders competing against the Tahoe in the police "SUV" market. They have all this crap and I recall dude saying "yep these are some mil-spec popo mom mobiles"

The only authentic 'mil spec' truck was that one K5 Blazer that sometimes get sold at auction.

http://www.ford.com/fordpoliceinterceptor/

There's the link. They look gayer than Dodges. If I still cared, I'd say bring back Crown Vics

Thanks.

26 Inf

05-09-16, 22:05

If I still cared, I'd say bring back Crown Vics

I always thought that something like Checker Cabs (remember them?) would be a good popo car - utilitarian.

Firefly

05-09-16, 22:17

Well you are a defacto taxi driver.

I always thought that the most evil looking popomobiles were those Dodge Monacos like in the old movies. With an Ithaca up front and an M16A1 in the trunk.

All ya needed was a Model 27 4", some wadcutter hollowpoints, maybe a 1911 in the glove box, one of them big ass radios and a good ol hickory head adjustment tool.

Driving around listening to Earth Wind and Fire....righting the wrongs.

Now....blech. The last Crown Vics weren't all that great but were a damn sight better as a ghetto sled than a Dodge Charger (that always tears up)

Plus everyone driving SUVs looks so lame. It's almost as gay as bike cops.

Nobody cares anymore so screw it.

Skateboard police are awesome, however, and if I weren't so fat, mangled, middle aged, and had a better attitude...that would be God's work

ETA video of God's work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0E4l5g1nRo

MountainRaven

05-13-16, 16:10

A significantly less than local dealer is going to try to pull a car from another regional dealer, then drive it to me.

Dark grey, base model WRX with some sporty mods from the factory. We'll see how that goes....