View Full Version : Retired Marine Cross, Fit Instructor, and Dad Shot Dead When trying to help
Whiskey_Bravo
05-03-16, 10:15
Good example of if you pull your gun out you better be ready to use it without hesitation. Terrible story all around. Not sure why he would pull his gun on a dude who had already shot at someone and then let the bad guy get out of his car with said gun without firing.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/05/03/retired-marine-crossfit-instructor-dad-shot-dead-when-he-heroically-pulled-his-gun-and-tried-to-stop-walgreens-gunman/
A Texas man is facing murder charges after he confessed to shooting his wife and fatally shooting another man outside a South Arlington Walgreens Monday morning.
Ricci Bradden, 22, turned himself in at a Texas Department of Public Safety office after talking to his Army supervisors, the Dallas Morning News reported.
The man Bradden reportedly killed was later identified as 35-year-old Anthony “TJ” Antell Jr., a CrossFit gym owner and former Marine, according to KXAS-TV. Antell is believed to have confronted Bradden in the drugstore parking lot after witnessing an altercation between the suspect and his wife, Quinsha Johnson, who works at the Walgreens.
Bradden had gotten angry at his wife outside the store and fired his handgun twice, striking Johnson the second time in the ankle, his arrest warrant stated.
Antell, whose wife was in the store when the shooting happened, grabbed a gun from his car after a woman ran into the store, crying out for help, Arlington police spokesman Christopher Cook said.
According to Johnson, Bradden was supposed to be at Fort Hood. She later told police that she was not expecting her husband to show up to her work.
The arrest warrant said that Bradden then ran to his vehicle after shooting at Johnson’s feet and that a man, later revealed to be Antell, then approached him and demanded that he drop his gun. Bradden admitted to slapping a gun out of the man’s hand and shooting him.
Witnesses told police that the suspect shot the father of three in the head.
Sad.
Not sure why he would get so close or allow perp to close distance to slap gun out of his hand.
Claude Werner discusses the event at his site: https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/2016/05/03/intervene-and-die/. If you're not a subscriber, you should be.
“Getting shot while intervening in affairs that are not yours” is an item I will now have to add to my list of Serious Mistakes Gunowners Make. Having your wife widowed and your children orphaned for someone else’s issues definitely qualifies as a “Negative Outcome.” So many things can go wrong in an intervention that it’s almost never a good decision, regardless of what ‘sheepdogs‘ might think. Sheep dip is probably a better general analogy.
I think this is a bad example of sticking your nose into other peoples' business. Antell or his family were not in danger, he has no responsibility to protect Johnson.
I know he might have felt some chivalry, but IMHO, Im protecting mine and myself and getting out of the situation. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'm not being paid to serve and protect.
It's a truly sad situation. I feel the same though. Take care of me and mine first and for most. If the act of protecting me and mine helps others at the same the all the better, but I'm not risking my neck or my families welfare for someone else.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-03-16, 10:49
I think this is a bad example of sticking your nose into other peoples' business. Antell or his family were not in danger, he has no responsibility to protect Johnson.
I know he might have felt some chivalry, but IMHO, Im protecting mine and myself and getting out of the situation. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'm not being paid to serve and protect.
Yeah this is a situation I couldn't see myself getting involved in other than medical aid to the girl shot in the foot. The guy was trying to leave so take all the info you can and let him leave. It's not worth trying to detain someone, especially with your family in the car a few feet away.
Having my family with me vastly changes my mindset on how I react to things. They are my priority.
Averageman
05-03-16, 11:02
Yeah this is a situation I couldn't see myself getting involved in other than medical aid to the girl shot in the foot. The guy was trying to leave so take all the info you can and let him leave. It's not worth trying to detain someone, especially with your family in the car a few feet away.
Having my family with me vastly changes my mindset on how I react to things. They are my priority.
Having a gun and all of the good intentions in the world still doesn't make you bulletproof.
You're right, I would have offered some first aid, a plate number and a 911 call.
Considering everything that happened, unless he was going back in to the store to continue shooting, openly confronting him and at ranges where he could slap the gun out of your hand?
He's not a cop, wasn't getting paid to protect the public at large. His duty was to protect him and his family. I'd understand if the bad dude went back in to go shoot more people but otherwise be the best damn witness you can be.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-03-16, 11:41
The wife didn't expect him to show up- wonder if there is more detail to that.
Wanna bet Quinsha speaks in his defense at the trial and sentencing?
I agree with everyone's comments regarding domestics ...
BUT in an active shooter scenario ... what's everyone say? I'm not talking like the 2014 Vegas shootings or a robbery, I'm talking someone actively shooting random people.
sad for sure
know idea why he would hesitate ? but I often wonder if the modern retired military person is not a gun person and with all the do not shoot unless its OK kinda thing hesitation on what could happen etc. leads to that lag in judgement and action ?
agree like others I for sure protect my family while I would want someone stepping in to protect my family if need be to easy to armchair this :(
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
In my opinion, if someone is already shooting or have been shooting and I'm not under a policy that protects some fat major, chief, or mayor; Then negotiations are off the table.
I'm not protecting Quanisha at that point. I'm looking out for number one. And I'd like the opportunity to get to shoot without spoilers or the classic "citizens arrest". He's already shown willingness to kill or maim someone he's been screwing, what makes you think he will hesitate to kill you?
What he's just going to give up?
Naw...
I agree with everyone's comments regarding domestics ...
BUT in an active shooter scenario ... what's everyone say? I'm not talking like the 2014 Vegas shootings or a robbery, I'm talking someone actively shooting random people.
I agree about the active shooter situations, but here the shooter was leaving, the act was done.
Yes Alex we are agreeing. I was going off topic to see what responses people would have to: someone actively shooting random people in their immediate vicinity. In such a situation where they could effectively escape should they choose to (could make it out a back door etc) or would they make a conscious decision to engage the shooter/shooters?
Yes Alex we are agreeing. I was going off topic to see what responses people would have to: someone actively shooting random people in their immediate vicinity. In such a situation where they could effectively escape should they choose to (could make it out a back door etc) or would they make a conscious decision to engage the shooter/shooters?
At this point in life, if they don't see me and I'm a good distance away, then I piss off.
Not my fight.
If I'm too close within the envelope that tgey think I'm a witness or potential threat then I have no choice at that point. Engage. No warnings, no attempts to detain. Shots fired. I survive/prevail the day.
Someone shooting and getting in a car doesn't necessarily mean anything is over. They have established that they will pull a trigger in open public against you and others. You are at their discretion. Would I get in an active chase? No. But I don't take any piece of shit thug on their honor to not shoot me as soon as I turn my back or put my hands up or hesitate.
And I agree, his "bae" as they say, WILL testify in his defense
Action vs reaction. If guy swatted gun from CCWer, then he prob didn't keep distance. Very sad non the less. Good force on force training is good at learning you how fast it can go wrong.
He's not a cop, wasn't getting paid to protect the public at large. His duty was to protect him and his family. I'd understand if the bad dude went back in to go shoot more people but otherwise be the best damn witness you can be.Yup, exactly how I view it.
The correct answer depends upon age, intelligence, people you are responsible for and what you can live with. I would not want to get killed wading into somebody else's problem, at the same time I'd hate to do nothing and somebody innocent gets killed and I spend the rest of my life wondering if I could have done something to save them.
It's hardly surprising that a former Marine would try to be the good guy, I only wish things worked out better for him. At this point, I think the only person I would hang my ass out in the wind for is a uniformed LEO, otherwise I worry about not fully understanding the situation as victims who are defending themselves can look like aggressors if you arrive late.
I've done some reckless / dangerous stuff in the past and I'm now old enough to know that you don't get away with that kind of stuff forever regardless of good intentions.
Moose-Knuckle
05-04-16, 03:52
We have had numerous threads on this subject matter, usually those like myself that vote not to involve oneself get flamed by the John Rambos in their chivalry draped shiny armor.
There is an old saying that goes something like this; "If you're dumb enough to pull a gun on a man be smart enough to pull the trigger".
This is insanity:
The arrest warrant said that Bradden then ran to his vehicle after shooting at Johnson’s feet and that a man, later revealed to be Antell, then approached him and demanded that he drop his gun. Bradden admitted to slapping a gun out of the man’s hand and shooting him.
"Stop in the name of the law" . . . seriously this ain't TV folks.
At this point in life, if they don't see me and I'm a good distance away, then I piss off.
Not my fight.
If I'm too close within the envelope that tgey think I'm a witness or potential threat then I have no choice at that point. Engage. No warnings, no attempts to detain. Shots fired. I survive/prevail the day.
Someone shooting and getting in a car doesn't necessarily mean anything is over. They have established that they will pull a trigger in open public against you and others. You are at their discretion. Would I get in an active chase? No. But I don't take any piece of shit thug on their honor to not shoot me as soon as I turn my back or put my hands up or hesitate.
And I agree, his "bae" as they say, WILL testify in his defense
This...ALWAYS this.
If it pops off right in front of me, and it's between me and the door...then it just went from a shooting to a gunfight.
Otherwise...nope.
While it may not be PC, gallant or chivalrous I'd say we should choose the action that best protects us and our immediate families. Active shooter, robbery or domestic is irrelevant. Choose the act that best insures the safety of your immediate family (or those you're willing to risk life and limb for) and yourself. If that means running like Hussein Bolt so be it. If that means scorching the earth of every bad guy in the vicinity so be it. We live in a free country every one has the choice to be prepared or to have their heads in the sand. Their choice to have head in sand doesn't mean you should change your value system.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-04-16, 08:59
We have had numerous threads on this subject matter, usually those like myself that vote not to involve oneself get flamed by the John Rambos in their chivalry draped shiny armor.
There is an old saying that goes something like this; "If you're dumb enough to pull a gun on a man be smart enough to pull the trigger".
This is insanity:
"Stop in the name of the law" . . . seriously this ain't TV folks.
"Or their will be; trouble......"
On forum sentiment, I think there has been a shift from swooping in to a more measured response.
My grandfather used to say 'if you pull a gun, use it' with the real subtext of don't pull a gun if you are not going to use it. My father would say 'if you are in a fight, knock them down and then kick them'. I wasn't raised with a white knight sense of fair play.
I teach my son that you win every fight that you avoid getting into, with an emphasis on being aware and not putting yourself in bad situations.
It's just too easy to not have the proper context for a situation. If somebody is shooting little kids, a'la sandy hook, then yeah...no context needed. But it hasn't been that long that a LEO UC was the victim of fratricide, while rolling in on an active shooter.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
05-04-16, 11:43
It's just too easy to not have the proper context for a situation. If somebody is shooting little kids, a'la sandy hook, then yeah...no context needed. But it hasn't been that long that a LEO UC was the victim of fratricide, while rolling in on an active shooter.
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I think the biggest thing is if you'll have perfect vision of what is happening. How often are you going to be in a place where you can see it unfold, know the good from the bad while having the right situation to engage without risking collateral damage? You get shots fired, don't see all the players as your family starts to do odd things and strangers do odder things.
HUGE PROBLEM IMHO
I dont want to become a target also from someone else !!!!
fact is you get johny rambo (as moose said) and he rolls up late rushing to the gun sounds wanting hoping to see some action and what he sees is someone shooting someone else so he decides to take the bad guy down !!! and sadly that bad guy was you stopping the threat !!!
I think so many don't realize or think about the others around them that might then think you are the bad guy with the gun in there eyes or there mistake !!!
again when I was in my 20s I might have thought to be the hero in my 50s I know there is no such thing and stay safe and stay on the earth for my kids as long as I can !!!!!
The guy's wife was inside the store. In the direction the guy was shooting, and in the direction the target of the shooter's hostilities was running…
How is intervening not protecting his own? If my wife were in that store, I would have intervened. I like to think I would have done a better job though...
I can see it now...the defense...
PTSD, hard times, not myself, overreacted, afraid of racist white man with gun, scared, praying for families, blah blah blah and he'll carry a big Bible to courtwith him
And the female will testify, good man, had a hard time, wouldn't hurt anybody, just needed help, white dude shouldn't have gotten involved, love this man so much....
Blech...
I can see it now...the defense...
PTSD, hard times, not myself, overreacted, afraid of racist white man with gun, scared, praying for families, blah blah blah and he'll carry a big Bible to courtwith him
And the female will testify, good man, had a hard time, wouldn't hurt anybody, just needed help, white dude shouldn't have gotten involved, love this man so much....
Blech...
And yet you say give Trump a chance. Hmm, all over the place you are.
And yet you say give Trump a chance. Hmm, all over the place you are.
I'll bet you a coke/Mr. Pibb/non-alcoholic beverage costing no more than 99 cents plus tax that's where they go with it.
This guy murdered someone. Trump just wants to be president.
The guy's wife was inside the store. In the direction the guy was shooting, and in the direction the target of the shooter's hostilities was running…
How is intervening not protecting his own? If my wife were in that store, I would have intervened. I like to think I would have done a better job though...
If that is ACTUALLY what is happening right now, I'm not going to confront the shooter, I am going to shoot the shooter. If you are shooting in the direction of myself, my family or loved ones, I don't need the back story.
Moose-Knuckle
05-05-16, 01:20
The guy's wife was inside the store. In the direction the guy was shooting, and in the direction the target of the shooter's hostilities was running…
How is intervening not protecting his own? If my wife were in that store, I would have intervened. I like to think I would have done a better job though...
He didn't shoot the "active shooter" he attempted to play Johnny Law and talk the guy down, for his effort he got disarmed and shot point blank in the head.
ditto :)
I sometimes wonder if age has anything to do with ones actions :)
If that is ACTUALLY what is happening right now, I'm not going to confront the shooter, I am going to shoot the shooter. If you are shooting in the direction of myself, my family or loved ones, I don't need the back story.
I do think most of us know if you pull a gun its last step
its not to look tough talk tough be tough its to stop the threat and the moment it comes out its in use ?
He didn't shoot the "active shooter" he attempted to play Johnny Law and talk the guy down, for his effort he got disarmed and shot point blank in the head.
I think this is a bad example of sticking your nose into other peoples' business. Antell or his family were not in danger, he has no responsibility to protect Johnson.
I know he might have felt some chivalry, but IMHO, Im protecting mine and myself and getting out of the situation. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'm not being paid to serve and protect.
I agree with you, and thought this as soon as I read the story.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-05-16, 13:04
Frickn' other people's domestic disputes. Why couldn't the BG have nailed the wife and shot the good guy in the ankle.
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