View Full Version : SETTING OFF STORE ALARMS WHEN CARRYING
On two forums I read where a poster wrote that when leaving--and sometimes entering--a retail store, he would set off a RFID alarm. Many were quick to point out that the culprit was probably a RF tag hidden in somewhere in a garment or wear apparel. Members gave examples of places that they had found tags: between layers in a belt; woven between layers in a jacket; and at the bottom of a purse. The big problem was that these guys were carrying a weapon and were asked to stop and explain. In one case the holster was tagged. In another the belt was. Anyway, you can see how this situation might be a can of worms for some. I choose not to carry in a business with a sign forbidding doing so. In my town there are at least three chain stores posted with a do not carry sign. The person who gets caught here will likely go to jail and will certainly lose his license. Schools in my area have security with metal detectors, and getting caught with a handgun in a gun free zone(especially when ignoring signs)will likely cause the unwise one to be hit with a felony.
I have entered umpteen million locations and have never even worried about setting of the alarm. I have been carrying for 5+ years and never heard of such thing.
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I have not heard of such a thing either. That is a lot of hidden RFID's. Also, I am not sure about Texas, but in Indiana they can only ask you to leave the property if you are found to be carrying somewhere with a posted sign (not including federal and state government property), if you refuse then it is legal trouble. I thought Texas was the same way.
ColtSeavers
05-09-16, 22:39
Never heard or read of this.
Never experienced this.
Really want to call BS, but have on occasion been sold clothing and the cashier forgot to take off the gigantic magnetic anti theft rivet.
Not worried about it though.
Never heard or read of this. My friends who carry have never mentioned something like this.
I'm in and out of stores practically every day and have been carrying since 2001.
I live near a city of 1.5 million people. In an metro area with roughly 8 million and aside from gov buildings I have only ever seen 1 no gun sign, posted in a blood lab
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No gun signs are not rare in Texas. Some retail chains have them as well as some privately owned businesses. Any bar with 51% or more of its sales from alcohol is posted. State law forbids carrying handguns in hospitals, schools, and churches. If there is a possibility of having a tag that will set off a RFD buzzer, you don't want it to occur if you are carrying in a place that forbids doing so. I have no idea if RFID buzzer events are actually occurring. I don't carry illegally so I could care less, and also it would not discomfit me to show my gun and id to security. I need to point out that the posters were not saying that their weapons set off the alarms. They were saying that on their body there was a RF tag that had not been deactivated. This tag set off an alarm. They happened to be carrying. Security became involved. Common sense frequently goes out the door when guns are involved.
Yesterday I gave a young man a ride to court and went inside to see if his court date was that day. I locked my handgun in my truck's tool box but kept the IWB holster on. When my turn came at the metal detector, I showed the empty holster and explained where the pistol was. Guess what? I got pulled aside for further scrutiny by a mall cop. I felt no anxiety because my deputy friends were nearby and grinning about my ordeal.
Why didn't I remove the holster? Because its kydex clip got stuck on my too thick belt so I kept it on.
there is a difference of legal places to carry and those asking you not to carry
yeah carry in a federal building etc.. could be in trouble carry in say costco and they can't have you arrested for it just ask you to leave have heard this from numerous sources including Lawyers and prosecutors but maybe Texas has some insane state law about it ?
I imagine if any place did try to have you arrested that might open up a can of worms for them and would be interesting to see what happens :)
like I was told if a alarm did go off say NO you cant search me and keep walking ! IF THEY try to detain you or search without consent major lawsuit would happen !!!
the only way they would try is if they have for sure proof you are a thief and this is not the case :)
places like costco of course are different in the sense you could loose your membership and they do have the right to check a receipt but not check your person or bag
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-10-16, 00:51
I assume this is happening on the way in? I'd just look at them and tell them I'm coming in, not going out. Then I would just leave. I'm not going to let them pay me to find some chip.
On the way out- do you people even stop for that? I just keep going. I know I didn't steal anything. The checker didn't do their job or the store goes cheap and puts in self-check out and then expects me to stand there while they figure out what they thought was valuable.
I had always heard from some pretty good sources that if they try to detain you for the buzzer, that is a legal and policy bozo-no-no.
On two forums I read where a poster wrote that when leaving--and sometimes entering--a retail store, he would set off a RFID alarm. Many were quick to point out that the culprit was probably a RF tag hidden in somewhere in a garment or wear apparel. Members gave examples of places that they had found tags: between layers in a belt; woven between layers in a jacket; and at the bottom of a purse. The big problem was that these guys were carrying a weapon and were asked to stop and explain. In one case the holster was tagged. In another the belt was. Anyway, you can see how this situation might be a can of worms for some. I choose not to carry in a business with a sign forbidding doing so. In my town there are at least three chain stores posted with a do not carry sign. The person who gets caught here will likely go to jail and will certainly lose his license. Schools in my area have security with metal detectors, and getting caught with a handgun in a gun free zone(especially when ignoring signs)will likely cause the unwise one to be hit with a felony.
In most cases this is NOT a felony, but a violation of a store policy. This means they will trespass you which amounts to a warning, and the next time you can be arrested for violating the trespass order. And honestly, if we are talking about a Wal Mart or some other similar business, I'm not going to stop and consent to a search anyway. If they tell me I set off their alarm, I tell them it sounds like they need to fix their alarm.
The only time it is an actual issue is a true GUN FREE zone like trying to get past airport security. That IS a felony, you will be arrested. Same for courthouses and other restricted areas. Probably also true for most schools and many other government buildings.
But Wal Mart, movie theaters, etc. are not an automatic felony.
I can only address Texas law. For the no carry sign to have meaning as far as legal consequence, it must be posted 100% according to the way the statute declares. Oddly, this statute number is 30-06--a coincidence. The conviction for violating it is an upper level misdemeanor. Violating the 51% alcohol sign is a felony. Getting caught carrying on a school campus can be a felony. Two laws are violated: the CHL law and then the no gun in a school zone law. I ignore no carry signs if they are not posted legally according to statute.
Texas CHL holders--because of reciprocity agreements--can carry in a large number of states. I'm a Mississippian and when I travel from Texas to Mississippi and pass through Louisiana, I'm legal in these states. However, being a southerner and knowing the limitations of a redneck mind(including my own), I will not walk around in Louisiana or Mississippi with a handgun on my person but will keep one in my vehicle. This act is legal in all three states without a license.
You might ask why. Because I don't wish to have someone take my weapon and not return it. I don't wish to sit in a small jail in a place with no name because I argued about what my rights are. I wish not to get a free ass whipping because I bitched, moaned, and complained about what happened. I wish not to have drugs planted in my vehicle because I was a smart ass. And it all started with a bogus traffic stop.
I'm pro law enforcement and always will be. My age is 68, and I've spent my entire life in Mississippi, Alabama, and Texas. I know my region, and I also some of its limitations.
In most cases this is NOT a felony, but a violation of a store policy. This means they will trespass you which amounts to a warning, and the next time you can be arrested for violating the trespass order. And honestly, if we are talking about a Wal Mart or some other similar business, I'm not going to stop and consent to a search anyway. If they tell me I set off their alarm, I tell them it sounds like they need to fix their alarm.
The only time it is an actual issue is a true GUN FREE zone like trying to get past airport security. That IS a felony, you will be arrested. Same for courthouses and other restricted areas. Probably also true for most schools and many other government buildings.
But Wal Mart, movie theaters, etc. are not an automatic felony.
Pretty much this.
Out here you can carry in bars, clubs, all private/public/residential property, pretty much anywhere except government property and school property. If non government property has a sign, all they can do is ask you to leave, if you refuse then you can get charged with trespassing like you mentioned. You can carry on school property only for transporting someone to or from school or school function, and you can store them in your vehicle on school property.
"'No Firearm' signs in Indiana have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law."
Moose-Knuckle
05-10-16, 04:21
Texas law changed recently, we went from CHLs to LTCs when open carry was legalized. Now most of the store signs I see are 30.07, which permits concealed carry but prohibits open carry. Ironic thing is, places that use to out and right prohibit CCWs from their business now allow them and instead ban open carry. Who'd-a-thunk?
If you encounter the no Beretta signs you can legally walk right past them, TX requires very specific signage with particular font sizes and everything to be legal.
As for RFID tags setting alarms off how did all these tagged items leave the store they were purchased from in the first place without setting off alarms?
On two forums I read where a poster wrote that when leaving--and sometimes entering--a retail store, he would set off a RFID alarm. Many were quick to point out that the culprit was probably a RF tag hidden in somewhere in a garment or wear apparel. Members gave examples of places that they had found tags: between layers in a belt; woven between layers in a jacket; and at the bottom of a purse. The big problem was that these guys were carrying a weapon and were asked to stop and explain. In one case the holster was tagged. In another the belt was. Anyway, you can see how this situation might be a can of worms for some. I choose not to carry in a business with a sign forbidding doing so. In my town there are at least three chain stores posted with a do not carry sign. The person who gets caught here will likely go to jail and will certainly lose his license. Schools in my area have security with metal detectors, and getting caught with a handgun in a gun free zone(especially when ignoring signs)will likely cause the unwise one to be hit with a felony.
I'd keep walking...
Moose-Knuckle
05-10-16, 04:44
State law forbids carrying handguns in hospitals, schools, and churches.
The law as effective of 01 January 2016:
A license holder may carry a handgun anywhere in Texas that is not expressly prohibited by law. Those prohibitions appear in several provisions of the Texas Penal Code . . .
On the premises of a hospital or nursing home if effective notice of prohibition is given per Penal Code Chapter 30 (unless the licensee has written authorization); such premises also are required to post notices under Texas GC §411.204
In an amusement park (if effective notice of prohibition is given per Penal Code Chapter 30)
On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other place of worship (if effective notice of prohibition is given per Penal Code Chapter 30)
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/faqs/index.htm
Doc Safari
05-10-16, 13:06
Personally, I have NEVER set off a store alarm while carrying.
For some reason, though, if I'm in a hardware store and I walk too close to a stud finder it goes off. :cool:
Been carrying for well over a decade now and have yet to set off an RFID station due to my gun. I've had items not get the tags removed or not run over the magnet thingie. Depending on the store I will show receipt as a courtesy or just keep walking. 90% of the time the cashier I just left waves me on without a hitch. With that stated there are/were guns that shipped with RFID chips installed as an inventory control measure. My VP9 clearly has a place molded into the grip for such a chip. None came with the gun and if one had I'd surely give it the drill bit treatment. It's not impossible to think one could set off sensors with the gun.
Yesterday I gave a young man a ride to court and went inside to see if his court date was that day.
And this is why I would talk to you at a party, you are a good man.
Back story. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/atlanta-man-beaten-walmart-guard-false-accusation-article-1.2615159)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzL2ybCzU4o
Add another to the column "never heard/read/experienced this."
Whiskey_Bravo
05-10-16, 15:26
Never had this happen and can't imagine it's actually a thing. Why would old RFIDs set off store alarms, especially enough to even worry about. I have been walking in and out of stores for years(just like we all have) both armed and unarmed and never had one go off as I entered the store. I have had a store employee leave the anti theft device on more than once, and sometimes even that didn't set the alarm off.
Eurodriver
05-10-16, 15:30
I set off a store alarm when I rode my motorcycle through a walmart once.
This guy almost caught me, but he slipped on all the glass I broke.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-10-16, 15:34
/facepalm
Eurodriver
05-10-16, 15:36
I was going to take that soooooo much further, but your advice was swirling around in my head ;)
I have never heard of this before, but it does bring up an interesting point. If for some reason an RFID tag sets off an alarm, a store employee has no right to search you though do they?
Whiskey_Bravo
05-10-16, 15:42
I was going to take that soooooo much further, but your advice was swirling around in my head ;)
I have never heard of this before, but it does bring up an interesting point. If for some reason an RFID tag sets off an alarm, a store employee has no right to search you though do they?
lol, I like to think I impacted the world just a tiny bit today.
I wouldn't think a loss prevention employee could do anything to you other than "ask" you to stop. I could be wrong though, I am assuming each state probably has it's own set of laws. I can't imagine I would consent to a search by a store employee.
Edit: I guess they can stop you in certain instances but can't force a search. If you don't consent to a search they can call the police. Of course if you didn't steal anything and a store employee detains you that is probably what you should do anyway.
http://www.crimedoctor.com/shoplifting2.htm
In an effort to prevent thieves from walking out the door without paying for merchandise, sometimes it becomes necessary to detain and arrest those suspected of shoplifting. Retailers sometimes employ plain-clothes loss prevention agents specially trained to detect, apprehend, and arrest shoplifters. Some retailers believe that arresting shoplifters is the greatest deterrent as the word is spread by store employees and gets out on the street. If a detention and arrest policy is desirable, it is critical for the merchant to understand the local laws of arrest before confronting anyone. Remember that the laws of the state have a different legal impact than store policy. What follows are some good "rule of thumb" guidelines to follow in most situations:
Before detaining anyone, you must establish Shoplifting Probable Cause. To establish a solid base for probable cause and prevent false arrest claims, there are six universally accepted steps that a merchant should follow before deciding to stop someone suspected of shoplifting:
You must see the shoplifter approach your merchandise
You must see the shoplifter select your merchandise
You must see the shoplifter conceal or carry away or convert your merchandise
You must maintain continuous observation the shoplifter
You must see the shoplifter fail to pay for the merchandise
You must approach the shoplifter outside of the store
No gun signs are not rare in Texas.
Enforceable ones are pretty rare. I go about my business every day and never encounter one. For 20+ years now.
Maybe I didn't see the sign. Now that I know, I'll simply take my business elsewhere.
Unless you just get some real super rookie cop trying to save the world, I honestly doubt you'd catch any flak.
Especially if you are just walking in the store.
sue walmart for more than 75K !!!
I would find someone to do it in the mega millions make a point !!!
sue the LEO and make sure he looses his job and is also financially destroyed so bad he could never recover
over a freaking tomato at walmart !!!!! bad bad bad cop there
sadly this is the easy target and this kinda crap needs to stop
Back story. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/atlanta-man-beaten-walmart-guard-false-accusation-article-1.2615159)
Depends on a given state's trespass laws relative to carrying a firearm. In this state, the most the store can do if they find you carrying a gun in violation of their posted prohibition is ask you to leave. Not a problem if you set off the RFID alarm on the way out....you're leaving anyway. The only way you can get police attention is if you refuse to leave when they ask you. Then the cops can come give you a ticket charging you with a petty misdemeanor (trespass) and are statutorily prohibited from confiscating your gun. In court, if found guilty, the mandatory fine is $25. The misdemeanor conviction can't be used in consideration of subsequent handgun permit applications. Minnesota doesn't distinguish between open carry or concealed carry...all the same and covered by the handgun permit.
"No gun" signs in this state are basically a polite notification that in the unlikely event that they discover that you are carrying a gun, the store might ask you to leave. No penalty for ignoring such signs and I always do.
FWIW, it's also legal to carry a gun in a bar here, or in church.
I've never seen an RFID tag used for anti theft. Security tags are much larger, and not 'smart'. Sounds like BS to me.
Moose-Knuckle
05-11-16, 03:24
sue walmart for more than 75K !!!
I would find someone to do it in the mega millions make a point !!!
sue the LEO and make sure he looses his job and is also financially destroyed so bad he could never recover
over a freaking tomato at walmart !!!!! bad bad bad cop there
sadly this is the easy target and this kinda crap needs to stop
I guess the #BLM militants won't be looting and burning down that Wal-Mart cause the rent-a-cop was Black.
But yeah, I would shop around for the best law firm for this sort of thing and file three separate suits; one against Wal-Mart corp, the city that the off-duty officer is employed by, and then the officer himself. Would also seek to press criminal charges against said officer for assault, violation of civil rights, et al.
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