View Full Version : Does Smith & Wesson make a good Ar?
TheNegativeOne
05-10-16, 11:50
My local gun store has one for sale and it looks nice at a great price. I figured they have been around for a long time, they must know how to make a good rifle.
What kind of price? Which model? MP 15 / MP 15 Sport?
A lot of folks are going to recommend to spend a little more than the cost of an M&P 15 for a 6920 or something of comparable quality.
ETA: A little old, but here is a decent review of it: http://www.gundigest.com/firearm-gun-reviews/ar-15-review-smith-wesson-mp-15
I have an M&P-15 that has been a great rifle. Be aware that they will not accept a DIAS as they have a high shelf and they have a semi-auto carrier. Not an issue for 99% of the people out there.
My local gun store has one for sale and it looks nice at a great price. I figured they have been around for a long time, they must know how to make a good rifle.
The best gun they make is the Magpul models. For value, the SPORT II is where its at. With that said, their AR's are not to the same quality of Colt, BCM, etc.
C4
MeanCarbine
05-10-16, 13:23
Baseline on this forum is the 6920. No one here will ever recommend getting a M&P/Ruger/DPMS..etc.
According to a previous post of yours, you already know the answer.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=2291208
Theres nothing wrong with Spikes, S&W, DD, Windham, Colt, Aero, PSA, BCM, Bushmaster, Dpms, Kac.......on and on. Just pick whatever you like, they all operate on the same system. Gas bleeds off, throws the bolt back and it strips a round from the mag. The design has been around for like 60yrs.
WickedWillis
05-10-16, 13:48
According to a previous post of yours, you already know the answer.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=2291208
That is bizarre
That is bizarre
Yep and there's more.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?182154-KAC-SR-15-Better-than-all-the-rest!
KAC SR-15 Better than all the rest!
No, of course it isn't. While I don't worship at the alter of TNP, I do think he nailed the brand BS. I agree with every point he makes in this video.
(Posted 3/26)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=2312101
Ok 10-4. Yea Im new to ARs...
(Posted 5/2)
I figured they have been around for a long time, they must know how to make a good rifle.
Wish people would stop making these kind of arguments
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Are we looking at a justification after the fact thread?
titsonritz
05-10-16, 16:04
A lot of folks are going to recommend to spend a little more than the cost of an M&P 15 for a 6920 or something of comparable quality.
You can put me in that camp.
Because...
With that said, their AR's are not to the same quality of Colt, BCM, etc.
Would I use a stripped lower to make a gamer rifle with?
Maybe.
Would I buy a full gun? No.
Colt, KAC, BCM, and LMT are pretty much the only correct answer.
It seems redundant but gets repeated for a reason.
methical20
05-10-16, 16:50
Colt, KAC, BCM, and LMT are pretty much the only correct answer.
It seems redundant but gets repeated for a reason.
Wise words. It gets repeated because it's true.
Not to stir the hornets hornets nest, but I'd add DD, LaRue and Noveske (despite what people recently are saying, Noveske still makes a quality rifle in my opinion). There may be a few others, but those companies have a pedigree of quality.
As Ryno posted above, this is the M.O. For this dude.
Won't be his first ban for straight up trolling. It's usually while bashing BCM or Colt, however...
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tacticaldesire
05-11-16, 00:22
Depends on the model. The Sport II at around $600 makes a solid budget AR that will do 90% of anything your average AR owner (i.e NOT the people on here) is likely to do. If you're looking at something like the Vikings Tactics mode you're probably better off with a Colt, BCM or DD.
despite what people recently are saying, Noveske still makes a quality rifle in my opinion
Not to single you out - just curious; I was gone for the last several months and might have missed it - did any issues pop up with Noveskes recently?
methical20
05-11-16, 10:52
Not to single you out - just curious; I was gone for the last several months and might have missed it - did any issues pop up with Noveskes recently?
The claim is that QC has fallen drastically since John's passing. While I would agree that some of their advertising has been in poor taste, and their guns have more logos than a BCM as of late, my opinion is that they are still great shooters.
That having been said, if I was going to get a Noveske now, since I don't prefer billet, I'd either build one with the old Gen. I receivers, or find a complete rifle with them.
Edit: Regardless, let's get this thread back on topic, or better yet, a mod will lock it as it seems any real conversation is dead.
Evel Baldgui
05-11-16, 11:26
I purchased one "on sale" at a local shop about 3 yrs ago, had fun with it, worked well, then traded it plus some cash for a BCM about 6 months later. Just wanted something better, for lack of another term.
556BlackRifle
05-11-16, 13:42
Not to single you out - just curious; I was gone for the last several months and might have missed it - did any issues pop up with Noveskes recently?
I'm a huge fan of Noveske and a decline in quality is a concern of mine. I've spent a lot on various parts with Noveske over the last few months and have not had any problems or seen any decline in quality. So for now, I'd say they are GTG.
Nightstalker865
05-11-16, 13:52
The OP is just a troll that likes to stir the pot.
IMO, Smith and Wesson AR type rifles are good for what you get. Just bear in mind that at the low end of the price scale, you are going to get a rifle made from commercial spec parts and not mil spec parts. For the casual civilian shooter the rifle will shoot fine, but the professionals in the military and law enforcement would find that this rifle falls short in long term reliability, accuracy and overall performance.
Alnamvet68
05-12-16, 04:57
IMO, Smith and Wesson AR type rifles are good for what you get. Just bear in mind that at the low end of the price scale, you are going to get a rifle made from commercial spec parts and not mil spec parts. For the casual civilian shooter the rifle will shoot fine, but the professionals in the military and law enforcement would find that this rifle falls short in long term reliability, accuracy and overall performance.
The A-2 front sight, pistol grip, and buffer tube on say, the Sport II, are all milspec. What are the commercial parts you allude to?
While I'm at it, the only AR15 that is about as close to the current military issue M4 or FNH is the Colt LE 6920.
Nightstalker865
05-12-16, 05:24
The A-2 front sight, pistol grip, and buffer tube on say, the Sport II, are all milspec. What are the commercial parts you allude?
The bolt/carrier group and barrel both come to mind first.
Alnamvet68
05-12-16, 05:46
The bolt/carrier group and barrel both come to mind first.
Agree, but my point is that no commercially available over the counter AR15 regardless of price is 100% mil spec.
Agree, but my point is that no commercially available over the counter AR15 regardless of price is 100% mil spec.
M110 surplus kits. BOOM! Next.
:D
The A-2 front sight, pistol grip, and buffer tube on say, the Sport II, are all milspec. What are the commercial parts you allude to?
While I'm at it, the only AR15 that is about as close to the current military issue M4 or FNH is the Colt LE 6920.
A mil spec barrel is made of 4150 Chrome Moly steel and hard chrome lined. IMO, that is the most important component. The S & W barrel is 4140 commercial grade steel that is softer but quite acceptable for home use. Most all bolt action hunting rifles use 4140 steel barrels but they don't see a lot of rounds put through them. A mil spec bolt is 158 carpenter steel and there is a mil spec on the trigger group parts as well.
To my knowledge you are correct that only Colt and FN make military spec rifles. Wydham also makes a mil spec rifle but the buffer tube is commercial. I used to shoot a Colt but sold that rifle. Great accuracy from it but there were a few problems in the design and it was a long and heavy 20" H-BAR. The M4 profile IMO is far more handy and versatile
M110 surplus kits. BOOM! Next.
:D
Link?
Link?
https://www.impactguns.com/knights-xm110-rifle-silencer-and-sniper-system-accessory-package-one-only-21568.aspx
There were a few brick-and-mortar stores selling them as well (can't remember which ones or I'd provide the links) - they sold out pretty quickly.
https://www.impactguns.com/knights-xm110-rifle-silencer-and-sniper-system-accessory-package-one-only-21568.aspx
There were a few brick-and-mortar stores selling them as well (can't remember which ones or I'd provide the links) - they sold out pretty quickly.
Very interesting, I'm wondering if they were contract over runs or something like what Remington did with the M24s. IIRC Clinton banned the military from selling surplus weapons to civilians. Our old weapons went into the 1033 program, lent/given/sold to other countries or put in storage. I could be wrong.
Are we looking at a justification after the fact thread?
No we're looking at a "he does this every week" thread...
Primus Pilum
05-12-16, 11:48
With a Colt 6720 being $799 for G&R Tactical, There is no reason to spend less. If you are really tight for cash, then buy a PSA kit or Lower/upper combo for about $500. It is every bit as good as anything S&W puts out. I have a whole rack of unshot PSA rifles that were built dirt cheap for the next ban/scare/Roman invasion. The 2 that are used as loaners/blasters are solid, well built guns with inexpensive but decent parts. Your average dirt shooter will not know the difference so why not just get something cheaper and spend the rest on ammo.
Those 6720's though, are hard to pass up. Unbelievable value without sacrificing quality. And this is coming from someone who owns a mess of KAC guns and lives by the SR-15.
With a Colt 6720 being $799 for G&R Tactical, There is no reason to spend less. If you are really tight for cash, then buy a PSA kit or Lower/upper combo for about $500. It is every bit as good as anything S&W puts out. I have a whole rack of unshot PSA rifles that were built dirt cheap for the next ban/scare/Roman invasion. The 2 that are used as loaners/blasters are solid, well built guns with inexpensive but decent parts. Your average dirt shooter will not know the difference so why not just get something cheaper and spend the rest on ammo.
Those 6720's though, are hard to pass up. Unbelievable value without sacrificing quality. And this is coming from someone who owns a mess of KAC guns and lives by the SR-15.
Most places have been out of stock on those for some time. Great gun.
Primus Pilum
05-12-16, 14:17
G&R seems to have them in stock if you are looking:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
G&R seems to have them in stock if you are looking:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Nope. Out of stock.
No we're looking at a "he does this every week" thread...
...and the OP hasn't returned to this thread.
Alnamvet68
05-12-16, 19:29
To answer the OP's original question, yes, for a $508.00 delivered Sport II AR15 with a generous lifetime factory warranty, I will say yes, S&W makes a fine low cost whatever you want to call it semi-auto rifle. I cannot say the same for a $500 frankenbuild with a who do you call when stuff goes wrong, especially when one is using parts from many manufacturers.
Psa is running a sale on the stainless freedom carbine uppers and blem complete lower. $429 since it's free shipping on both. The Smith guns are ok for what they are but I never give them a serious look. All I think about when I see budget a $500 ar is that for a couple hundred more I can get a 6920 oem.
Primus Pilum
05-12-16, 22:56
Just hope Smith&Wesson decides to send you a barrel with rifling. They have been known to skip that step a few times.
TheNegativeOne
05-13-16, 05:43
Psa is running a sale on the stainless freedom carbine uppers and blem complete lower. $429 since it's free shipping on both. The Smith guns are ok for what they are but I never give them a serious look. All I think about when I see budget a $500 ar is that for a couple hundred more I can get a 6920 oem.
I just bought a PSA 20" rifle length upper with machine gun steel barrel from FN and a A5 set up from BCM. I have the palmetto lower their polished trigger group. I'll finish it off with a BCM bcg and mod0 break.
A mil spec barrel is made of 4150 Chrome Moly steel and hard chrome lined. IMO, that is the most important component. The S & W barrel is 4140 commercial grade steel that is softer but quite acceptable for home use. Most all bolt action hunting rifles use 4140 steel barrels but they don't see a lot of rounds put through them. A mil spec bolt is 158 carpenter steel and there is a mil spec on the trigger group parts as well.
To my knowledge you are correct that only Colt and FN make military spec rifles. Wydham also makes a mil spec rifle but the buffer tube is commercial. I used to shoot a Colt but sold that rifle. Great accuracy from it but there were a few problems in the design and it was a long and heavy 20" H-BAR. The M4 profile IMO is far more handy and versatile
For the record, mil spec doesn't state exact grade. I can tell you, and I make it, that the most common mil spec barrel steel is a 4145.
Primus Pilum
05-13-16, 13:29
Material of the barrel is much less important than the QUALITY of the barrel and the consitancy of the chrome lining.
4140, 4150, CMV, Wiz bang alloys.... None of it matters if the barrel is not made right, true, stress reviled and a quality coating is applied correctly.
Maybe on a M249 or a MK46 the barrel steel matters if you are going cyclic, Might get an extra round or six before the barrel goes poof, but for a semi auto carbine the difference in those alloys is really negligble.
Worry much more How and who made the barrel and what kind of QC procedures there are.
There are some fantastic chrome lined barrels out there that shoot sub MOA with match ammo (FN & KAC to name a few) and there are lots of stainless and non chrome lined 41XX steel barrels out there that are made cheap and fast and shoot like crap.
Flankenstein
05-13-16, 17:35
According to a previous post of yours, you already know the answer.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=2291208
*Headshot*
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