View Full Version : Carrying a glock 17 with 3.5 lb connector
I have had my glock 17 gen 4 for about 2 months now and I can not hit crap with it. I have shot around 500 rounds through it. I had the same problem with my xd 9 then I installed a new 4.5 lb trigger in the xd and I now shoot great with it. I want to start carrying my glock, but I need to get the trigger fixed before I can. I was thinking about putting a ghost ultimate connector with a 6 lb ghost trigger spring in the gun. Would this bring the pull down to the 4-4.5 lb area? How are the ghost brand connectors/ ghost trigger springs also?
Sorry for the long post thanks for all the help!!!
PatrioticDisorder
05-10-16, 15:14
I'd go with the "-" connector. I run my glocks (all gen4) with "-" connector, Gen3 trigger bar, Apex safety plunger & I give it a .25 cent trigger job.... Makes the Glock trigger very Walther PPQish in quality.
Standard connector was never 5.5. The minus connector was never 3.5. I have a minus in a bunch of Glocks and they all scale 5-5.25 lbs measured down near the lower quarter of the trigger.
I think Ghost products are "ok" for those people that may shoot a few hundred rounds a year. But if you're on here you probably are a shooter or training junky that will put more thru your gun in a year that some of the "couch operator's" will in their lifetime. With that I'd stick with the factory Glock minus connector. I've never felt the need to change out a connector personally until my newest G19 and previously a G23 (both Gen4). The triggers in both bordered on unusable, the 23 I sold. The G19 had been modded up with an RMR from ATEi so dropping another couple of bucks on a minus connector wasn't really an issue at that point. I wouldn't change any springs, period.
As has been stated on her many times the stock Glock parts are vastly more reliable than most of the others (you'll see a lot of threads where people change back) plus it's still "stock" for GSSF, or whatever game you're playing. A factory Glock part is probably more defensible if it's a carry gun. Odd how different the pulls can be on virtually the same gun. My 19 was horrible, but soon after I bought a new G26 (gen 4 too) and the trigger is on par with a well worn old gen 3 G35 I used have.
http://www.glockmeister.com/GLOCK-45-Connector-and-Glockmeister-Competition-Spring-Set/productinfo/G721COMP/
Go with the minus connector and the heavy Wolff trigger spring and end up with a 4-4.25 pound trigger pull.
William B.
05-10-16, 18:58
Odd how different the pulls can be on virtually the same gun. My 19 was horrible, but soon after I bought a new G26 (gen 4 too) and the trigger is on par with a well worn old gen 3 G35 I used have.
This. I've got two Gen 3 Glock 19's with factory internals. One of the "5.5 lb" triggers weighs 7.5 lbs and the other is 6.5 lbs. I've done some training with Bob Vogel and he mentioned that he actually keeps a lot of spare factory Glock trigger parts on hand and will try different combinations of factory parts until he finds a trigger pull that he likes. That's how much variation there is in Glock triggers!
That being said, OP, be sure that you're not trying to buy a gear solution to a problem that could be overcome through good practice.
I have had my glock 17 gen 4 for about 2 months now and I can not hit crap with it.
How do you define this?
Okie John
I have had my glock 17 gen 4 for about 2 months now and I can not hit crap with it. I have shot around 500 rounds through it. I had the same problem with my xd 9 then I installed a new 4.5 lb trigger in the xd and I now shoot great with it. I want to start carrying my glock, but I need to get the trigger fixed before I can. I was thinking about putting a ghost ultimate connector with a 6 lb ghost trigger spring in the gun. Would this bring the pull down to the 4-4.5 lb area? How are the ghost brand connectors/ ghost trigger springs also?
Sorry for the long post thanks for all the help!!!
A GEN 4 Glock has a (or can have) a 6.5-7LBS trigger pull. While I much prefer my trigger pull weights to be between 4.5-5LBS, you are more than likely trying to fix a software problem with a hardware fix. Have you ever taken any pistol classes from a qualified instructor??
C4
How do you define this?
Okie John
I can only get a 12 inch group at 21 feet, compared to my XD-9 which I can get 5 1/2 inch group at 30 feet.
A GEN 4 Glock has a (or can have) a 6.5-7LBS trigger pull. While I much prefer my trigger pull weights to be between 4.5-5LBS, you are more than likely trying to fix a software problem with a hardware fix. Have you ever taken any pistol classes from a qualified instructor??
C4
Yes I have at a local range (rapid fire pistol and holster draw/weapons retention)
I carry all my Glocks with the dot connector, which gives a nice smooth trigger to the gun. Due to my eyes going it has to have a RMR on it for me to still shoot nice tight groups at 25 meters. But if you want to hurt me or rob me with Irons I will still get the job done up close.
Yes I have at a local range (rapid fire pistol and holster draw/weapons retention)
I used the word "qualified" when I mentioned instructors. This rules out the vast majority of the instructors out there. You need to find instructor that will teach you how to shoot 25yd bullseye (not rapid fire pistol). Speed comes naturally as the slow fire reps increase. Ideally, an instructor that shoots Glocks and knows all the issues that they create for shooters.
Here is a good place to look for a "qualified" instructor: http://aliastraining.com
C4
20yd, 5rd group from my Glock
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/StormLake/G19_FittedBarrel20yds.jpg
I can only get a 12 inch group at 21 feet, compared to my XD-9 which I can get 5 1/2 inch group at 30 feet.
Thanks for the clarification.
At 25 yards, a good shooter should be able to make a group no larger than 4" with either of those pistols, so you have some work to do. Don't take this personally, but the gun isn't your problem. Grant's advice to seek qualified instruction is dead-on. I suspect that the Alias guys might be too advanced for what you need, as the ones I've worked with (Hackathorn, Vickers, McNamara) expect you to have this kind of thing in hand before you show up. You wouldn't get laughed out of class, but you'd definitely hold everyone else up.
Fortunately, pretty much any decent shooter can help you tighten a group if you ask them. That might be a rangemaster or someone else you see on the range who can shoot a decent group. I'd spend some serious time focused on that before I did any other speed work. You probably have a lot of bad habits to unlearn. Once you learn the fundamentals, making the groups shrink is just a question of practice.
Where do you live?
Okie John
I live in the DFW metroplex in Texas. Also, wow 4 inches at 25 yards I have never seen anyone shoot a handgun that good at any firing range I have ever been too.
I live in the DFW metroplex in Texas. Also, wow 4 inches at 25 yards I have never seen anyone shoot a handgun that good at any firing range I have ever been too.
There are some superb instructors in your area.
A couple of examples of pushing the pistol beyond conversational distances:
http://i.imgur.com/3WT4dcq.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/3WT4dcq)
Made this with a new-ish Gen4 G17. This pistol's accuracy was impressive--at least as good as my Gen3 guns with Wilson Combat barrels. This is the second 1.25" group I made offhand with this pistol at 25 yards. I had a pretty favorable impression of this pistol over the first 500-ish rounds I fired through it, but it was hard to shoot well, so I switched to an HK VP9.
http://i.imgur.com/I41r7FD.jpg (http://imgur.com/I41r7FD)
10 rounds at 25 yards. The vertical stringing is my fault. To really mess with your head, this is a handload using cast bullets at 1,187 fps (with an extreme spread of 55 fps) in the OEM barrel, which aren't supposed to shoot well in Glocks.
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee68/okie_john/LAV25-yardDrill1_zps5a22b2da.jpg (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/okie_john/media/LAV25-yardDrill1_zps5a22b2da.jpg.html)
Made this one at 25 yards while shooting an Larry Vickers drill where you try to press the trigger in 0.25 sec or less. I broke all of these shots in less than 0.30 sec. The group was 3.625", with nine shots in 2.25". Had it not been for the flyer, this would have been one of my best 10-shot 25-yard groups ever.
You can also do good work beyond 25 yards with a pistol. I shot these targets a few months ago with a VP9 at 25 and 50 yards. It was pouring rain on the range, so the targets are wet and it may be hard to see all of the hits clearly. All shots fired offhand and (very) slow fire, except for the 25-yard group with S&B 115-grain FMJ, which I shot a little more quickly because people were waiting to go downrange for a target change. Cadence of this group was about 1 shot per second.
American Eagle 147-grain FMJ First Target
Top group was fired at 25 yards. It’s about 3.5” Bottom group was fired at 50 yards. It’s about 5-6”.
http://i.imgur.com/dthlUdw.jpg (http://imgur.com/dthlUdw)
S&B 124-grain FMJ First Target
Top group was fired at 25 yards. It’s about 2.5”, with four hits touching. Bottom group was fired at 50 yards. It’s about 5”, with three in about 1.25”. I’m thinking that this load has promise in this pistol IF I can learn not to abuse the trigger. On the other hand, this pistol is new, so a little time should make the trigger smoother and lighter, making abuse less likely.
http://i.imgur.com/95QApKm.jpg (http://imgur.com/95QApKm)
S&B 115-grain FMJ First Target
Upper group was fired at 25 yards and is about 3.5”. I shot this one a little more quickly than the others. The lower group was fired at 50 yards—the first shot was low and off the paper. Extreme spread for those four shots is probably 4-5".
http://i.imgur.com/oH4HbXe.jpg (http://imgur.com/oH4HbXe)
American Eagle 147-grain FMJ Second Target
50 yards. Extreme spread is probably about 4” or a little bigger.
http://i.imgur.com/OstNrqI.jpg (http://imgur.com/OstNrqI)
S&B 124-grain FMJ Second Target
Group fired at 50 yards. Extreme spread is about 8" because of the flyer I threw to the left. Extreme spread for the other four shots is probably 4-5".
http://i.imgur.com/0DpM2uD.jpg
S&B 115-grain FMJ Second Target
Still hitting low, but this time I added a clean target backer below the paper so you can see low hit. I called the high flyer. This group probably has four hits in about 4”. The fifth hit opens the group to about 9”.
http://i.imgur.com/osN23t1.jpg (http://imgur.com/osN23t1)
I'll add some tips about pure marksmanship in another post.
Okie John
I live in the DFW metroplex in Texas. Also, wow 4 inches at 25 yards I have never seen anyone shoot a handgun that good at any firing range I have ever been too.
Ok, that might be the problem. If the instructor you took your classes from cannot produce a 5rd group that is sub 5 inches @ 25yds, you might want to find a better instructor.
C4
I’ve spent a chunk of the last four years chasing accuracy in Glocks. I’ve posted some of what I’ve learned in various places before, not always to a warm reception. This is the first time I’ve posted it all together, so take what you can use and ignore the rest.
To start, Glocks are plenty accurate for duty and practical shooting games. You won’t sweep Camp Perry with one, but a stock Gen3 G17 properly zeroed with good ammo should shoot a 3-4" group at 25 yards and should easily stay on an IPSC target at 100 yards. In my limited experience (one G17, one G19, one G43) the Gen4 guns are more accurate. That said, if you want a true match-grade 9mm pistol, start with something else.
Shooter Technique
The best way to increase accuracy in Glock pistols is to increase your core strength, upper body strength, and grip strength. This helps you shoot everything better, not just Glocks. So does dry firing.
From there, you have to nail the fundamentals (stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control) on every shot. They’re all vital and they’re all covered in detail in lots of places, so I won’t go into them. But the list is not complete without follow through. Without it, you throw away everything else you’ve done, literally at the last possible split-second. Pat McNamara says that follow-through is checking your work through your sights, and that you should regain a good sight picture as soon as the shot is fired so that you always have one sight picture more than the number of shots you fired. Fire one shot, get two sight pictures. Fire two shots, get three sight pictures, and so on. As usual, Mac knows what he’s talking about.
Also, do a Google search for “the shooter’s wheel of misfortune”. It can help you diagnose issues with your grip and trigger press.
Range Technique
If you shoot for pure accuracy, then I feel it’s OK to abandon any pretense of realism and steal a few techniques from the bullseye world.
First, it’s called “slow fire” not because you take a long time to fire each shot, but because of the time you take between shots. You’re not laying down suppressive fire, you’re trying to make small groups as a test of specific parts of your ability. Start by building your position, ensuring that your natural point of aim is on the X ring. When you bring the pistol up, you should break the shot in 1-3 seconds. Taking longer will actually open your groups. Fire the shot, then rest the gun on the bench (while maintaining your grip) for 5-6 seconds and let the muscles in your back and arms go slack. Then fire another shot and take another rest. Repeat until you finish the string. I know we’re all manly enough to hold up a two-pound pistol until the cows come home, but again, our goal is small groups, not proof of manliness.
Second, if you need to shoot a ten-shot group, load two five-shot magazines. When you change them, maintain the grip with your strong hand and use your support hand to do all the work. This gives you a mental break from the concentration of precision shooting and helps ease eye strain. Take your time.
Third, it helps to shoot from a dark place at a well-lit target. If you’re indoors, turn off the light in your booth if you can. This helps you see and align the outline of your sights more precisely. Classic bullseye ranges are essentially sheds with ample shade for the firing line while the targets stand in bright sunshine. This helps reduce eye strain and helps you shoot smaller groups. No, it’s not super-realistic, but again, we’re abandoning certain aspects of realism in search of accuracy so we can become better shooters. Most indoor ranges put bright light on your pistol and leave the target in gloom, with commensurate results.
Ammo
After testing nearly 20 different factory loads over a couple of years, I learned that Glocks are sensitive to ammo. In other words, a load that groups well in one Glock may not group well in another. Test ammo by shooting several ten-shot groups with each load at 25 yards (50 yards is better), and keep notes. You may find a load that cuts your groups in half.
Duty-grade JHP ammo tends to be more accurate than FMJ practice ammo, but that’s a low bar. Most FMJ ammo is crap, especially bulk reloads. Good FMJ ammo can be nearly as accurate as good JHP ammo in some pistols, but a lot of it will barely hold a 10” group at 25 yards. Find an FMJ load that your pistol shoots well—it may not be the most expensive one—and buy several cases of it at a time. I’ve had good luck with S&B and American Eagle, but some of my pistols refuse to shoot one or the other well.
Trigger
Glocks are harder to shoot as well as some other pistols because the trigger pull is so long and heavy. Testing different combinations of springs and connectors definitely pays off. I like the OEM minus (-) connector with a stock trigger spring. Results vary, but definitely look into it. Stick to OEM internal parts to keep your pistol reliable.
The 25-cent trigger job is also a big help, as it smooths and lightens the trigger pull no matter what connector and spring you prefer. If you have an issued Glock and you can’t alter it, you can get the same effect by shooting or dry-firing it several thousand cycles. The 25-cent trigger job feels about the same as a Glock that’s been fired 5-6,000 times.
It has become fashionable to run pistols dirty and dry, but I find that a clean, well-lubricated pistol is much easier to shoot well. I clean and lube my Glocks, especially the fire control parts, about every thousand rounds, unless they have Wilson barrels, in which case I clean them about every 500 rounds. You have enough problems with the Glock trigger before you start, so why complicate life by fighting months of accumulated fouling, dust, dirt, belly-button lint, etc., on every trigger press? Also, Glocks are so easy to detail strip that there’s no reason not to have a clean, properly lubricated pistol pretty much all the time.
Sights & Zero
Sights matter a LOT and the best choice for each of us has spawned hundreds of threads. (For a number of reasons, I prefer adjustable sights on a carry gun, the idea of which makes some people foam at the mouth.) What matters at least as much as the sights themselves but is almost completely overlooked is zero. Based on several years working on indoor ranges, I'd say that the vast majority of shooters have no idea what a zero is. Most of the rest assume that their pistols are zeroed from the factory, or that centering their sights in the dovetail is adequate.
This is not the case.
Getting windage sorted out is pretty simple: just shoot 10- or 20-shot groups and move the rear sight until you get the same number of hits left of the centerline as you have right of it. People say that Glocks tend to hit to the left. I believe that this is true. I also believe that it’s not as true as people say it is, and that most of them are mashing the trigger. But if a Glock shoots left for several good shooters, then it’s probably not zeroed.
Then there’s elevation. As your groups shrink, you become able to make hits farther and farther away, and your zero for elevation starts to matter. No firearm comes from the factory with a good zero, but Glocks are especially bad in this respect—it can take a surprising amount of screwing around to properly zero them for elevation. I like a 25-yard zero because I can stay in the A-zone out to 50 without much change in POA, and I can stay on an IPSC target out to 100 or so by holding for the chin.
Take the time you need to get a solid zero with good ammo and you’ll be way ahead. Again, all of this is a highly personal matter, so test sights on your own, work with some different zeros, and find what works best for you.
Targets
Shooting small groups on visually cluttered targets is harder than on simple targets. I find that targets meant for zeroing rifle scopes are almost useless for iron-sighted handguns. Again, it helps to take a lesson from bullseye shooters. They prefer a large (20”x20” or so) sheet of plain buff-colored paper with a single black bullseye. This makes the buff-colored part of the paper appear wider than the rest of your sight picture, so you only have your sights and the bull in view as you shoot, which makes shooting small groups easier. Also, the buff background strains your eyes less than a black target on a white background.
Again, these tips will help you shoot smaller groups under very controlled circumstances. From there, you can analyze and hone individual aspects of your skill set so you can shoot smaller groups in the real world. I’ve found that each of these things will help to shrink your groups a little. None is a magic fix by itself, but when you add them all together, the cumulative improvement can be remarkable.
Let me know if you have questions.
Okie John
If someone says that he carries his 1911 with 3 or 4 lb trigger pull with a round in the chamber and safety OFF, many would say that's a dangerous practice. Most of those same people don't blink when someone carries a glock, M&P or XD with a 4 lb trigger. Hmmm.
Psalms144.1
05-11-16, 11:40
As others have noted, what your Glock needs is more use, not a new connector. At my last team, our "lunch drill" at the end of our range sessions was a full magazine fired at a standard "pepper popper" steel target at 100 yards. Person with the fewest hits on steel bought lunch. In the event of a tie, person with the fewest hits in the most time bought lunch. The buyer, to my memory, never hit fewer than 9; and I once watched one of my guys go 15 for 15.
The difference was we were using issued pistols, so they were bone stock. We just shot the crap out of them - which is easy to do when you have an ammo allocation of 7K rounds/shooter/year, and access to a range on a weekly basis.
Realistically, your stock trigger will lighten and smooth up with use. Get some snap caps, find a dedicated dry fire area, CLEAR YOUR PISTOL, leave the ammunition somewhere else, CLEAR THE PISTOL AGAIN, go to your dry fire training area, CLEAR THE PISTOL, the load with snap caps and dry fire 15-30 minutes a day for a month. Focus on pressing the trigger smoothly through the break without disturbing the sights. The use will smooth up the metal-metal contact points between your trigger bar, connector, and striker, and the trigger will "feel" nicer soon.
For live fire practice, don't worry about practicing draws or rapid fire until you can consistently shoot 5-shots into one hole at 7 yards. If you need to start that one-hole drill at 3 yards until you have confidence and familiarity with your Glock, so be it. Todd Green's (RIP) "Dot Torture" drill is a great one for developing precision without time constraints. Once you can shoot your stock pistol accurately, THEN worry about the draw, presentation, etc.
Wow thanks for all the data. When I get home from work today ill be sure to look up that target and print some out and I'll try those tips out at the range this weekend.
No problem. Keep us posted.
Okie John
Fluffy Bunny
05-12-16, 02:43
I have a ghost connector and I would not recommend it vs the genuine Glock minus connector. As for the trigger spring just leave it alone.
I've shamelessly experimenting with many replacement parts for my glock but at least I have a decent excuse. When I started shooting I was in bad enough physical shape that sometimes after just a few boxes of ammo I could not continue to pull the trigger without stopping to rest. If you're in good health then putting a minus connector in your glock is simply not going to help you as much as you might imagine it would.
I live in the DFW metroplex in Texas. Also, wow 4 inches at 25 yards I have never seen anyone shoot a handgun that good at any firing range I have ever been too.
The instructors Grant Recommended (Alias) are good to go but most travel nationwide so you would need to travel or catch them when they are in TX.
These guys http://www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/ are local to you and are excellent shooters and instructors. Both partners are retired LEOs / LE instructors. The have an awesome 1 day basic pistol class. They would give you a good base from which to progress to the Alias classes.
Their primary failing is they are not good at updating the course schedule on their website so I recommend contacting them if interested.
SeriousStudent
05-12-16, 23:39
The instructors Grant Recommended (Alias) are good to go but most travel nationwide so you would need to travel or catch them when they are in TX.
These guys http://www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/ are local to you and are excellent shooters and instructors. Both partners are retired LEOs / LE instructors. The have an awesome 1 day basic pistol class. They would give you a good base from which to progress to the Alias classes.
Their primary failing is they are not good at updating the course schedule on their website so I recommend contacting them if interested.
I have trained with HiTS, and they are excellent trainers. Wayne Dobbs was one of the Vickers Shooting Method instructors, as well as a trainer for Triple Canopy. Darryl Bolke was the investigator on a lot of officer-involved shootings in SoCal, and that adds a lot of very good info regarding "what works".
Facebook is probably the best way to reach them.
And C4iGrant is right, you cannot go wrong with an Alias instructor, their skillset is top-notch.
The instructors Grant Recommended (Alias) are good to go but most travel nationwide so you would need to travel or catch them when they are in TX.
These guys http://www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/ are local to you and are excellent shooters and instructors. Both partners are retired LEOs / LE instructors. The have an awesome 1 day basic pistol class. They would give you a good base from which to progress to the Alias classes.
Their primary failing is they are not good at updating the course schedule on their website so I recommend contacting them if interested.
Agree on the guys at hardwired. Good choice (especially if they are close). Both instructors are also on this forum.
C4
jackblack73
05-13-16, 11:55
FWIW my Glock with a 3.5 Ghost connector measures 5.0 on my trigger gauge.
I have an update I shot the glock Saturday and my marksmanship wasn't half bad. I was able to hit a 8 in circle at 7 yards. I just need to dry fire the gun more and get used to it before I am able to achieve the groups that I get on my xd.
Thanks for all the help Okie John!!
SeriousStudent
05-16-16, 22:43
Keep up the good work!
And dry practice is definitely your friend.
Back to the original hardware question.
A Glock-brand minus connector, alone, in a G17Gen4, may result in approximately a 5 lb. trigger pull, or 5.0 pounds, down from ~5.5 pounds. In a G17Gen3, it might go down a full pound to 4.5 lbs. I don't know about the several other brands of connectors. I suspect the other brands can't be much different no matter what the advertised weight may be.
A lighter firing pin spring will drop the weight slightly more; let's say another .25 pounds. Depending on ammo, ignition reliability could suffer. I haven't used a lighter firing pin spring and don't know how long it'll last before reliability suffers, however. People will also install a heavier trigger spring. Let's estimate another .25 pounds less trigger pull. At this point, lack of the trigger fully resetting is marginal. Also, by now, folks will have started polishing various parts with a Dremel tool. If too much is taken away in the wrong places, then new parts are bought and the user starts over again.
One other spring people install, which probably can't be measured in pull weight, but might make the entire trigger pull not have as much of a "wall" is the firing pin safety spring (&/or a different firing pin safety, more rounded). Quality & reliability can vary using these aftermarket parts, which aren't expected to last as long as a stock part.
If you do attempt these modifications, I'd recommend frequent detail stripping and examination, perhaps each time after shooting and cleaning.
REMEMBER TO LUBRICATE IN BETWEEN THE CONNECTOR AND TRIGGER BAR. From what I've seen, this is a step many Youtube videos leave out but is very important to the trigger pull's feel.
Keep practicing with the XD. It sounds as if you're pretty good with it. At 30 feet, you might even get into the 2"-3" group size.
With the Glock, it's a different gun and each person is different. It might take 100, 1000, or more rounds to get used to that gun.
The actual training classes are so very important.
The actual trigger pull weight can be a factor, but not at the group sizes you're getting, which you said was 12" at 7 yards. At that distance, shoot for a goal of 2", no time limit, i.e., go slowly.
P2Vaircrewman
05-17-16, 21:17
My G19 Gen 4 with the stock dot connector has a measured trigger pull of 6.1 on a digital gauge. I just ordered a G17 trigger(smooth) and a minus connector. I would like to get it to at least 5 pounds. I can bang them all day into the 9 - 10 ring with my 1911, doing the same with the Glock has eluded me after several thousand rounds of both life and dry fire.
I have trained with HiTS, and they are excellent trainers. Wayne Dobbs was one of the Vickers Shooting Method instructors, as well as a trainer for Triple Canopy. Darryl Bolke was the investigator on a lot of officer-involved shootings in SoCal, and that adds a lot of very good info regarding "what works".
Facebook is probably the best way to reach them.
And C4iGrant is right, you cannot go wrong with an Alias instructor, their skillset is top-notch.
I have not worked with HiTS, nor have I shot with Wayne. What I can say about Wayne is that he knows a thing or two about a few guns. He is very intelligent, very knowledgable, and a great instructor.
I have an update I shot the glock Saturday and my marksmanship wasn't half bad. I was able to hit a 8 in circle at 7 yards. I just need to dry fire the gun more and get used to it before I am able to achieve the groups that I get on my xd.
Thanks for all the help Okie John!!
OJ and Psalms have offered up solid advice, and sounds like it's paying off. In case you didn't find that Dot Torture target, here you go...
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/dot-torture-target.pdf
I'd recommend starting at the 3 yard line until you can clear it (50/50) then progressively move back two yards at a time. Rinse, repeat. DT and dry fire will pay big dividends.
Here are a few places to start for a structured dry fire schedule...
Dry fire Routine... http://pistol-training.com/archives/5185
Wall drill... http://pistol-training.com/drills/wall-drill
Keep up the good work.
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