View Full Version : Surefire 762 mini or socom 300 sps
ExplorinInTheWoods
05-11-16, 20:23
I'm thinking about getting a surefire can, I currently have a silencer tech thread on but would like to get a fast attach surefire since I have a 14.5 pinned with a socom brake and my 3gun rifle has the same brake. I am looking to get a colt 901 and put either a war comp or brake on it, and also considering a surefire flash hider to put on my faxon ARAK for 300 blackout. Does anyone have experience with both cans? I have another rifle build and a pistol build that will both be getting war comps so I'm looking for a jack of all trades can to share between some 556 guns, a 300 blackout shooting supers, and a 16 inch 308.
domestique
05-11-16, 21:23
I'm thinking about getting a surefire can, I currently have a silencer tech thread on but would like to get a fast attach surefire since I have a 14.5 pinned with a socom brake and my 3gun rifle has the same brake. I am looking to get a colt 901 and put either a war comp or brake on it, and also considering a surefire flash hider to put on my faxon ARAK for 300 blackout. Does anyone have experience with both cans? I have another rifle build and a pistol build that will both be getting war comps so I'm looking for a jack of all trades can to share between some 556 guns, a 300 blackout shooting supers, and a 16 inch 308.
I have a SOCOM762-RC, SOCOM556-RC, and will have my 300 SPS approved in about 2-4 weeks.
I have never used the 762-mini, but can tell you from experience that the larger 762-RC is terrible with 300blk subs. It was not designed around the lower pressure curve. The 762-RC does sound really good with full power 308 and 300WM. I use the 556-RC on a 11.5" 5.56 AR, and that sounds pretty good. The 762-mini will obviously be a little louder due to the larger bore, but the external dimensions are the same.
The 300SPS was designed specifically for 300blk and would be the better choice IMH0 if shooting subs.
If you are going to be shooting the 308 and 300blk more often I would go 300 SPS. If OAL is more important, and you shoot 5.56 more often, then go mini.
ETA: I voted mini, due to the fact you only mention 300blk supers.
ExplorinInTheWoods
05-13-16, 06:56
I'd be shooting 5.56 and 308 more than I'd be shooting the 300 blk, and it would only be supers. Yeah people like subs but mine is a 16 inch and I'd be shooting pigs with it and rather have that extra velocity than the wow it's so quiet factor.
I have a 7.62 mini and my 300 sps should clear any day. My 7.62 mini lives on my 11.5" 5.56 mostly and my 300 SPS will mainly be used on two of my precision bolt guns.
In your case, i'd honestly chop the SF brake and grab a Ruged Razor, Sandman S, or even an Omega. All 3 will be better suited for the multi use your looking for in my opinion.
ExplorinInTheWoods
05-14-16, 08:52
I'm sticking with surefire, the brakes they make are awesome and one is on a 14.5 so I don't feel like messing around with getting it removed. I'm not the type to run a can constantly on a rifle but having the option every now and then would be fun.
My situation is similar to what you describe and i narrowed my suppressor choice down to these two as well.
For me i ended up choosing the 300SPS; 300blk use is the primary reason for this, as it will pretty much stay on that rifle, but i still wanted the interchangeability between 5.56 and .308 as well.
That being said, I voted 7.62 Mini in your case since youll be shooting 5.56 and .308 more than 300blk. Availability may also be another factor, my LGS has 7.62 Mini's stocked, but the 300 SPS has been on order for about 5 months now. Not to mention 5.56 warcomps have been back ordered for 2.5 months from optics planet as well.
I'm looking at 7.62 Mini too. It would mainly be used on a Noveske 300BLK and an Arsenal 107CR. I'm looking at using the Warcomp flashhider on both rifles. The Noveske is a 10.5 and the Arsenal 107 CR will be cut/crowned/pinned/welded. What do y'all think?
domestique
05-21-16, 10:03
I'm looking at 7.62 Mini too. It would mainly be used on a Noveske 300BLK and an Arsenal 107CR. I'm looking at using the Warcomp flashhider on both rifles. The Noveske is a 10.5 and the Arsenal 107 CR will be cut/crowned/pinned/welded. What do y'all think?
It's going to sound really bad with 300blk subs. I have the full size 762-rc and it is really loud with subsonics (the reason SF made the 300SPS).
If you're only shooting supers, you are probably ok.
It's going to sound really bad with 300blk subs. I have the full size 762-rc and it is really loud with subsonics (the reason SF made the 300SPS).
If you're only shooting supers, you are probably ok.
Why would any given suppressor sound worse with subs than supers? No supersonic crack should be quieter, should it not?
Why would any given suppressor sound worse with subs than supers? No supersonic crack should be quieter, should it not?
Fluid dynamics. The behavior of a gas at one temp/pressure does not replicate the behavior at a much higher temp and pressure. If the can is optimized by the engineers (using CAD and fluid modeling software) for a higher pressure, there is a chance lower end performance suffers.
domestique
05-21-16, 15:48
Why would any given suppressor sound worse with subs than supers? No supersonic crack should be quieter, should it not?
SF designed the SOCOM762-RC for the 300WM contact. It was engineered to sound really well at those pressures. It sounds great with my AR10 (308 and 6.5CM). It sounds ok with 300blk supers...... but laughably loud with subs.
I'm excited to compare them side by side one my 300 SPS is approved.
Fluid dynamics. The behavior of a gas at one temp/pressure does not replicate the behavior at a much higher temp and pressure. If the can is optimized by the engineers (using CAD and fluid modeling software) for a higher pressure, there is a chance lower end performance suffers.
Wow, much more in depth than I could have explained.
Fluid dynamics. The behavior of a gas at one temp/pressure does not replicate the behavior at a much higher temp and pressure. If the can is optimized by the engineers (using CAD and fluid modeling software) for a higher pressure, there is a chance lower end performance suffers.
SF designed the SOCOM762-RC for the 300WM contact. It was engineered to sound really well at those pressures. It sounds great with my AR10 (308 and 6.5CM). It sounds ok with 300blk supers...... but laughably loud with subs.
I'm excited to compare them side by side one my 300 SPS is approved.
Wow, much more in depth than I could have explained.
Interesting, good to know.
What specific differences are there between the 2 cans that makes them more suited to supers vs subs?
Baffle design, baffle spacing, porting, bore sizing, etc?
domestique
05-21-16, 20:16
Interesting, good to know.
What specific differences are there between the 2 cans that makes them more suited to supers vs subs?
Baffle design, baffle spacing, porting, bore sizing, etc?
No idea. I'm sure our resident SF rep. Garin (kudu22) would be able to explain more.
I haven't seen a SOCOM762-RC baffle stack cutaway/xray. But it would definitely be interesting to compare it to a Saker/Omega which is known to sound very nice with 300blk subs.
What should I look at if I want to swap back and forth between my 10.5 inch 300BLK and my Arsenal 107CR. Was wanting a shorter can because I'm not going to SBR the 107CR. The Dead Air Sandman-S sounds interesting. What would y'all use if you were in my shoes?
The 300 BLK will primarily be using super Ammo. It's gonna have a scope and used as a Hog rifle.
What should I look at if I want to swap back and forth between my 10.5 inch 300BLK and my Arsenal 107CR. Was wanting a shorter can because I'm not going to SBR the 107CR. The Dead Air Sandman-S sounds interesting. What would y'all use if you were in my shoes?
The 300 BLK will primarily be using super Ammo. It's gonna have a scope and used as a Hog rifle.
SilencerCo Omega if you want a short can that is geared towards 300blk but does everything else pretty well.
Senorx depends on your priorities.
Blowback, mounts, and cost are 3 areas the Sandman-S shines.
Silencerco Omega as Sensei mentioned will beat it in muzzle decibels and weight for the same cost.
Rugged Razor is another lighter option also.
Surefire MINI2 will be little shorter but more money for can and mounts.
KAC is also $.
Blowback and mounts were main issues for me. But for a hog rifle weight may be a bigger factor. The Sandman is 3 oz+ heavier than Omega and Razor.
Senorx depends on your priorities.
Blowback, mounts, and cost are 3 areas the Sandman-S shines.
Silencerco Omega as Sensei mentioned will beat it in muzzle decibels and weight for the same cost.
Rugged Razor is another lighter option also.
Surefire MINI2 will be little shorter but more money for can and mounts.
KAC is also $.
Blowback and mounts were main issues for me. But for a hog rifle weight may be a bigger factor. The Sandman is 3 oz+ heavier than Omega and Razor.
I'm not sure if you guys got a chance to read my mini-review of my Surefire 300 SPS that I posted in the SF 300SPS thread. The Cliff's Notes version is that I'm not so impressed. Blowback was NASTY in my 10" SCAR and is noticeably more than a 556 RC-2 in a 10'5" LMT MRP. I've not had a chance to shoot it in a 300blk yet, but I plan to takes some 308 and 300blk to the range next weekend. Now, keep in mind that the 300 SPS is not a small can. It is 1-2 inches longer than the Omega (depending on if you use the brake or a flat cap) and a good bit heavier.
So, I say go with an Omega, Sandman, or Rugged over the SF for 300blk unless you are heavily invested in SF SOCOM brakes / mounts. My preference is to the Omega due to the fact that SilencerCo is an established company with an excellent customer service track record. Deadair and Rugged are great, but still rather new companies.
As for KAC, keep in mind that their cans cannot cross calibers. If you buy a 30 cal QDC or QDC/CQB, then you will not be able to fit it on a 556 rifle. Your choices in KAC muzzle devices are also limited to a $90 flash hider or a $300 MAMS - they do not make an affordable break. I have a couple KAC suppressors but that is because I have several KAC uppers that already had their QDC flash hiders installed.
Now, keep in mind that the 300 SPS is not a small can. It is 1-2 inches longer than the Omega (depending on if you use the brake or a flat cap) and a good bit heavier.Yes I think the MINI2 is the better Surefire option with him wanting a smaller package. That being said the 300 SPS looks like a beast if you want to throw 300blk @ the lowest muzzle db possible. Metered much lower off SS's 9" than my Sandman.
My preference is to the Omega due to the fact that SilencerCo is an established company with an excellent customer service track record. Deadair and Rugged are great, but still rather new companies.Yes they are both new companies. But they have a lot of experience behind them. Dead Air is backed by BPI and Mr. Pappas was a cofounder and Mr. Magee a designer at SilencerCo. Rugged was cofounded by Mr. Graham who co-owned SWR in 2006 before they were purchased by SilencerCo. The Razor was not yet available when I bought my Sandman but it appears to be impressive also. But I agree with you the Omega is probably the highest volume seller of the 3 by far.
I've been watching YouTube videos on the Omega 30 all night long. I think I'm sold. Looks like a perfect match for my intended use. Plus I qualify for the SPEQ pricing too. Win, win!
domestique
05-23-16, 08:18
I've been watching YouTube videos on the Omega 30 all night long. I think I'm sold. Looks like a perfect match for my intended use. Plus I qualify for the SPEQ pricing too. Win, win!
I finally got to shoot my Omega yesterday. Very impressed for such a small can. Regretfully we were shooting in the backyard, and only shot subs as to not piss of the neighbors.
On a 9" BCM 300BLK upper it sounded very nice with subsonics. A nice low tone with no noticeable blowback. I shot it side by side with an identical 9" BCM upper and an AAC Cyclone. To our ears, the Omega (flat cap, direct thread) sounded quieter than the 9" Cyclone! The cyclone also had more blowback.
Regarding the BCM upper: I used an H3 buffer and it cycled subs with and without the suppressor, with bolt lock back.
ExplorinInTheWoods
05-23-16, 13:44
This thread makes me think I should go with the mini 762, probably will unless I can get a 300 sps for a good amount cheaper
iron.whisper
08-26-16, 15:56
No idea. I'm sure our resident SF rep. Garin (kudu22) would be able to explain more.
I haven't seen a SOCOM762-RC baffle stack cutaway/xray. But it would definitely be interesting to compare it to a Saker/Omega which is known to sound very nice with 300blk subs.
hello.... by the way socom 762 rc
https://s21.postimg.org/xe5oc0glz/279f63b2_5dc7_4421_b39e_4423337a2977_zpsc8da5287.jpg
domestique
08-26-16, 19:47
Very nice.
To update. I just picked up my 300 SPS on Tuesday. I plan on shooting both the 762-RC and 300 SPS side by side with am Omega and a Saker on Sunday.
Very nice.
To update. I just picked up my 300 SPS on Tuesday. I plan on shooting both the 762-RC and 300 SPS side by side with am Omega and a Saker on Sunday.
What caliber barrel length? I'm interested in results. Thank you.
hello.... by the way socom 762 rc
https://s21.postimg.org/xe5oc0glz/279f63b2_5dc7_4421_b39e_4423337a2977_zpsc8da5287.jpg
Very cool!
I have an SF socom mini 7.62 in jail right now, I am sure it will be good for .300blk, not so sure for 7.62x51.
domestique
08-27-16, 00:24
What caliber barrel length? I'm interested in results. Thank you.
Very cool!
Just subsonic 300blk. 9" and 10.5" uppers.
domestique
08-29-16, 20:14
Update:
I got out Sunday and tested the 300 SPS, 762-RC, and Omega. I didn't get a chance to test the Saker.
All were 9" 300blk uppers (BCM for the Omega, and AAC for the SF suppressors), and I used SiCo Harvester subsonic ammo (both the 208 and 220gr).
762-RC: Horrible, as previously tested. It is laughably loud with Subs, like a unsuppressed 22lr. I can not recommend a 762-rc or 762-mini for anyone wanting it for 300blk SUBS. The 762-RC and 762-mini were designed for full power military loads, and sound great on 300WM, and 7.62x51. I use 762-RC on my LMT MWS, and it sounds fantastic with 308 and 6.5CM.
Omega: sounds really good for a 6" suppressor (running direct thread, with the FLAT endcap). It would be my overall choice for length, lightweight and sound reduction.... It had a higher pitch then the 300 SPS, and was deemed louder than the 300 SPS by all shooters and bystanders..... it still sounds really good (comparable to an AAC Cyclone), and is the dedicated suppressor on my wife's 9" SBR. With an H3 buffer, I had no malfunctions and ejection was right at 4:30.
300 SPS: A nice sounding suppressor. It had a deeper tone than the Omega, which may have helped with sounding quieter as they both meter within a db or 2 of each other. The 300 SPS was bought to replace the 762-RC on my personal 9" SBR, and has filled that role nicely. I would like to try it against the 762-RC on the AR10 and see how it does with full power supersonic loads. I'm hoping to use it as a backup in that role.
Unfortunately I wasn't shooting at low light, and can not comment on which had better flash reduction/NVG signature.
Bottomline: if you are a SF fanatic or you require a QD mount (go 300 SPS), for everyone else, I think it is really hard to beat the Omega in terms of length/weight/sound reduction and overall versatility.
Trunkmonkey4
08-29-16, 21:12
Ive shot my 300 SPS next to a friends 762 mini on both 16 inch 556, 11.5 556 and 18inch 308. The 300 SPS won everyone. Ive shot my 300 on a 10.5 300blk some and it was quiet but Im not a big dude on the blackout so I cant say much. If I was to have one suppressor it would be a 300 SPS.
I am buying a 556 socom at some point here only because I do not like having to switch out suppressors on the range. I like to put one on a gun and leave it.
hello.... by the way socom 762 rc
https://s21.postimg.org/xe5oc0glz/279f63b2_5dc7_4421_b39e_4423337a2977_zpsc8da5287.jpg
Does the 5.56 Mini/SOCOM look this way, too, do you know?
domestique
08-30-16, 04:17
Does the 5.56 Mini/SOCOM look this way, too, do you know?
I believe this is the 556-RC.
http://rs223.pbsrc.com/albums/dd278/WTAForum/Surefire_Blast_Diffuser_Baffle_Stack_Assumption_zpsv05ftdk2.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip
I believe this is the 556-RC.
http://rs223.pbsrc.com/albums/dd278/WTAForum/Surefire_Blast_Diffuser_Baffle_Stack_Assumption_zpsv05ftdk2.png?w=480&h=480&fit=clip
Looks like the 556-212 because it has the locator pin in that cut-away photo.
ExplorinInTheWoods
08-30-16, 07:17
I don't care about it being on a 300 blk sub sbr, I just care 16 inch 308 10.5 14.5 16 18 inch 5.56 and 16 inch super 300 blk
I don't care about it being on a 300 blk sub sbr, I just care 16 inch 308 10.5 14.5 16 18 inch 5.56 and 16 inch super 300 blk
My 762 socom sounds ok on super 300blk. As said though, it's not designed for subs and it doesn't sound like it was either, to be blunt.
domestique
08-30-16, 08:11
I don't care about it being on a 300 blk sub sbr, I just care 16 inch 308 10.5 14.5 16 18 inch 5.56 and 16 inch super 300 blk
With as many 5.56 ARs you have, I would still recommend the Omega. You gain nothing in length if you go direct thread, and only 1 inch if you go QD. I have a 556-RC, and it sounds good, and very similar to a Saker 762 (I haven't compared it directly to the Omega), but I think the 762-mini will be dissapointing with 5.56 (direct from a SF rep).
If your concerns are OAL, QD attachment, minimal blowback, and NVG flash then go 762-mini. If you care somewhat about decibels (I personally don't, except on 22lr and 300blk subs) then go Omega IMHO. Just realize the 762-mini is a compromise can, and is going to be loud on everything.
Edit to add: although I haven't shot my 300 SPS through 5.56 and 308, every account I've read, is very favorable.
IMHO, I wish SF should come out with a 300 SPS-MINI. THAT would be an awesome "do everything" suppressor.
With as many 5.56 ARs you have, I would still recommend the Omega. You gain nothing in length if you go direct thread, and only 1 inch if you go QD. I have a 556-RC, and it sounds good, and very similar to a Saker 762 (I haven't compared it directly to the Omega), but I think the 762-mini will be dissapointing with 5.56 (direct from a SF rep).
If your concerns are OAL, QD attachment, minimal blowback, and NVG flash then go 762-mini. If you care somewhat about decibels (I personally don't, except on 22lr and 300blk subs) then go Omega IMHO. Just realize the 762-mini is a compromise can, and is going to be loud on everything.
Edit to add: although I haven't shot my 300 SPS through 5.56 and 308, every account I've read, is very favorable.
IMHO, I wish SF should come out with a 300 SPS-MINI. THAT would be an awesome "do everything" suppressor.
For a 5.56 gun, I strongly prefer the SOCOM Mini. I have a 556-212(2) and a SOCOM Mini, and I like the mini so much more. It is notably more "swingable" from target to target, makes the gun feel more lively, less backpressure, and sounds the same at the ear, or better. Downrange, yes, it is louder, and yes, from the shooter's perspective you hear more "boom" reflected from downrange, but I only care about weapon function, concussion, and damage/impulse to me, the shooter. Not chasing numbers on a meter as measured 1M to a 90* from the muzzle.
Basically, I like the modern cars with 250 horses that stomp a mud-hole in the older cars with 325hp, so to speak.
domestique
08-30-16, 08:40
For a 5.56 gun, I strongly prefer the SOCOM Mini. I have a 556-212(2) and a SOCOM Mini, and I like the mini so much more. It is notably more "swingable" from target to target, makes the gun feel more lively, less backpressure, and sounds the same at the ear, or better. Downrange, yes, it is louder, and yes, from the shooter's perspective you hear more "boom" reflected from downrange, but I only care about weapon function, concussion, and damage/impulse to me, the shooter. Not chasing numbers on a meter as measured 1M to a 90* from the muzzle.
Basically, I like the modern cars with 250 horses that stomp a mud-hole in the older cars with 325hp, so to speak.
Just to clarify for everyone, you are referring to the SOCOM556-mini?
I would like to see the Micro come back personally...... but at least we have the Warden, lol.
Just to clarify for everyone, you are referring to the SOCOM556-mini?
I would like to see the Micro come back personally...... but at least we have the Warden, lol.
Yes, I have a SOCOM 556 MINI, and I have 2 Surefire 556-212 fullsize cans, along with the 762 SOCOM RC, and 762 SOCOM MINI
For a 5.56 gun, I strongly prefer the SOCOM Mini. I have a 556-212(2) and a SOCOM Mini, and I like the mini so much more. It is notably more "swingable" from target to target, makes the gun feel more lively, less backpressure, and sounds the same at the ear, or better. Downrange, yes, it is louder, and yes, from the shooter's perspective you hear more "boom" reflected from downrange, but I only care about weapon function, concussion, and damage/impulse to me, the shooter.
The only issue I have with this, is that between the Socom 556-RC and the Socom 556 Mini, there is a 1.2" and 2.5oz difference. At an 8.5lb rifle, that's a 2% difference in weight. Between the old series cans and the mini sure, but I just can't personally see buying the mini if you have both available to you.
Not chasing numbers on a meter as measured 1M to a 90* from the muzzle.
TRUTH. This industry will be a LOT better when numbers are given AT EAR. This "but military" testing nonsense is intentionally misleading. It wouldn't look good if all silencer mfg's had to admit that NONE of their products are actually hearing safe on 556 ARs.
ExplorinInTheWoods
08-31-16, 14:58
With as many 5.56 ARs you have, I would still recommend the Omega. You gain nothing in length if you go direct thread, and only 1 inch if you go QD. I have a 556-RC, and it sounds good, and very similar to a Saker 762 (I haven't compared it directly to the Omega), but I think the 762-mini will be dissapointing with 5.56 (direct from a SF rep).
If your concerns are OAL, QD attachment, minimal blowback, and NVG flash then go 762-mini. If you care somewhat about decibels (I personally don't, except on 22lr and 300blk subs) then go Omega IMHO. Just realize the 762-mini is a compromise can, and is going to be loud on everything.
Edit to add: although I haven't shot my 300 SPS through 5.56 and 308, every account I've read, is very favorable.
IMHO, I wish SF should come out with a 300 SPS-MINI. THAT would be an awesome "do everything" suppressor.
I'm going to go 300 sps, my trust attorney recommended it over the mini. My concern is just hearing safe, NVG flash isn't a big concern. Since my 14.5 is pinned and welded I'm married to surefire so I won't look at any silencerco stuff for rifles because of that. If I get a pistol suppressor I'll get the 45 osprey.
My concern is just hearing safe, NVG flash isn't a big concern.
AR, supersonic ammo, no can on the market is actually hearing safe. No can AT EAR is under 140db. And last I remember, hearing starts at the ear.
I wish more people understood this. We'd get much better cans than ones designed to be quiet a meter left of the muzzle for marketing purposes.
firefighter37
08-31-16, 15:32
I'm going to go 300 sps, my trust attorney recommended it over the mini. My concern is just hearing safe, NVG flash isn't a big concern. Since my 14.5 is pinned and welded I'm married to surefire so I won't look at any silencerco stuff for rifles because of that. If I get a pistol suppressor I'll get the 45 osprey.
300SPS while quiet, is way too big to be useful on an AR setup in my opinion. The 556RC and 762Mini are perfect size to be used on an SBR. I have a SpecWar 762 that stays on my R700 because it is too big for anything else. I've had it on my 8.5" 300 Black, and it almost doubles the length of the barrel. It was quiet, but made a handy rifle a boat anchor. I would rethink the 300SPS, but then again, everyones priorities are different.
300SPS while quiet, is way too big to be useful on an AR setup in my opinion. The 556RC and 762Mini are perfect size to be used on an SBR. I have a SpecWar 762 that stays on my R700 because it is too big for anything else. I've had it on my 8.5" 300 Black, and it almost doubles the length of the barrel. It was quiet, but made a handy rifle a boat anchor. I would rethink the 300SPS, but then again, everyones priorities are different.
My 8.5" 300 with the SPS 300 is still shorter than my Mk18/M4-2000 (a combo that's been proven the world over). Like you said, it's all trade space. Cans do change the handling characteristics of the host, period.
That SpecWar is on the longer side of the competition, but it's also known to be the quietest 7.62 can on the market.
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