View Full Version : 41F pushed me over
After reading up on 41F, I think it's time to start a trust for a .30 cal can and SBR lower. Before I start, the basics. Live in KY, so hunting and owning isn't an issue, and have family in TX, so hunting and owning isn't an issue. The issues I see are...
1. My wife isn't a US Citizen, only has a green card. Will this prevent her from being permitted on the trust?
2. She is out of the country until after 41F kicks in. Same question.
I have tentatively decided on return my rifle lower to a pistol lower (PSA originally built by gunsmith as a pistol as a CYA), and start a "better" lower for the SBR. The PSA has had no issues with the 3 uppers and 1500 rounds I have had through it, but all discussions have said to get a "good" lower. Suggestions?
This is as far as I have gotten, but am slowly working on a plan as I have time.
After reading up on 41F, I think it's time to start a trust for a .30 cal can and SBR lower. Before I start, the basics. Live in KY, so hunting and owning isn't an issue, and have family in TX, so hunting and owning isn't an issue. The issues I see are...
1. My wife isn't a US Citizen, only has a green card. Will this prevent her from being permitted on the trust?
2. She is out of the country until after 41F kicks in. Same question.
I have tentatively decided on return my rifle lower to a pistol lower (PSA originally built by gunsmith as a pistol as a CYA), and start a "better" lower for the SBR. The PSA has had no issues with the 3 uppers and 1500 rounds I have had through it, but all discussions have said to get a "good" lower. Suggestions?
This is as far as I have gotten, but am slowly working on a plan as I have time.
I can't help with the Trust questions.
BCM is my favorite, go-to lower these days.
Where in KY? I'm in Frankfort.
Auto-X Fil
05-12-16, 12:19
You can add or remove people from the trust without any notification, fingerprinting, or BG checks. The only thing you can't do on a trust after July is add/remove NFA items without fingerprinting and BG checks.
Keep that pistol lower around. You can travel freely between KY and TX (or any other can-legal states) with a suppressor mounted or a pistol lower. You cannot travel with an SBR unless you have a permission slip from the ATF, valid for up to one year.
I would go BCM for the new lower. In fact, the prices on their complete guns right now are very good, so I'd buy a complete ELW 11.5" KMR-A gun if I was starting over.
You can add or remove people from the trust without any notification, fingerprinting, or BG checks. The only thing you can't do on a trust after July is add/remove NFA items without fingerprinting and BG checks.
Keep that pistol lower around. You can travel freely between KY and TX (or any other can-legal states) with a suppressor mounted or a pistol lower. You cannot travel with an SBR unless you have a permission slip from the ATF, valid for up to one year.
I would go BCM for the new lower. In fact, the prices on their complete guns right now are very good, so I'd buy a complete ELW 11.5" KMR-A gun if I was starting over.
What's the procedure for adding/removing people?
I'm not an attorney. I think adding/subtracting names is just adding a notarized rider stating such. Check the SiCo or capitol armory, trust, or an attorney that writes lots of firearm trusts.
Can you mail the page(s) that your wife must sign and notarize, to her so she can, and then mail them back to you? or are non US notaries invalid in the US?
scott
Auto-X Fil
05-12-16, 13:21
What's the procedure for adding/removing people?
That will be worded into the Trust documents, and you can set it up however you like, as long as you abide by the Trust laws in your state. In my state a Notary isn't even needed - you just need a witness. A Notary provides an extra layer of legal protection, and might be a good layer, even if not strictly needed.
Either way - consult a lawyer; or use a 50-state trust and read it carefully.
trackmagic
05-12-16, 15:14
After reading up on 41F, I think it's time to start a trust for a .30 cal can and SBR lower. Before I start, the basics. Live in KY, so hunting and owning isn't an issue, and have family in TX, so hunting and owning isn't an issue. The issues I see are...
1. My wife isn't a US Citizen, only has a green card. Will this prevent her from being permitted on the trust?
2. She is out of the country until after 41F kicks in. Same question.
I have tentatively decided on return my rifle lower to a pistol lower (PSA originally built by gunsmith as a pistol as a CYA), and start a "better" lower for the SBR. The PSA has had no issues with the 3 uppers and 1500 rounds I have had through it, but all discussions have said to get a "good" lower. Suggestions?
This is as far as I have gotten, but am slowly working on a plan as I have time.
I am in the same boat as you. My wife has a green card.
At the time I could not find any reason she could not be on the trust. I think that is why some people consider this a "loophole" since the people on the trust do not necessarily go though a background check. However, in the future that may change and I thought it would be easier to leave her off the trust in that case.
Where in KY? I'm in Frankfort.
Next to the KSP Headquarters on Versailles Rd.
Keep that pistol lower around. You can travel freely between KY and TX (or any other can-legal states) with a suppressor mounted or a pistol lower. You cannot travel with an SBR unless you have a permission slip from the ATF, valid for up to one year.
That's the idea.
Next to the KSP Headquarters on Versailles Rd.
Well! I'm on the west side near the other KSP post!
I have a PSA lower SBRed, there's nothing wrong with them at all. Don't let the colt purist brainwash you. That lower will last your lifetime and your children's lifetime
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After reading up on 41F, I think it's time to start a trust.
Given that chief LEO's will no longer have the ability to prevent people from submitting completed paperwork for NFA items, why start a trust now? The primary reason people started using trusts (chief LEO refusing to sign) will be gone.
Still plenty of reasons to use a trust...even if they'll be more of a pain than filing as an individual starting on 7/13/16. However, since you can do your own prints & photos, it's not a huge hassle either way.
Setting up a trust would certainly be a hassle. If someone had a reason to setup a trust for all of their firearms, I could certainly understand including the NFA items. However, I'm honestly at a loss to understand why someone without such a trust would go through the hassle at this point just for NFA items. I do realize that my question is not what the OP asked. However, I recently had a coworker who is looking in to getting his first SBR tell me that he had to hurry and setup a trust or else he wouldn't be able to get one. He was very pleased to find out that he didn't need to setup a trust at all. I'm going to help walk him through the process.
I set up a trust and did it that way last month. I have no idea if it was useful or not though.
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However, I'm honestly at a loss to understand why someone without such a trust would go through the hassle at this point just for NFA items.
The simplest reason is possession by multiple people.
Think of a scenario with two siblings, a parent and an uncle. All who hunt, but not always together. They buy/build a couple SBRs and suppressors using a trust on which they're all trustees. Now it doesn't matter who goes on the trip, or which house the firearms end up in, or who is in that house at that time.
Ease of transferring is another advantage. Yes, they'd transfer tax-free on a Form 5 for an individual, but with a trust it stays out of the courts (if it came to that) and another trustee could possess it instantly.
I'd agree etting one now simply to avoid prints and photos is kind of a waste...but doing it now (or anytime) for the two reasons above makes sense.
The "Responsible Persons" thing is only with trusts, correct? More specific, other trustees listed on the trust? Or is it any adults in the household even if they're not listed on the trust?
Nothing has changed with those filing as an individual, other than the CLEO notification, correct?
BigWaylon, I agree with what you've written. I just think very few new NFA owners would setup a trust for such reasons.
Nothing has changed with those filing as an individual, other than the CLEO notification, correct?
That's correct as far as I've read. Now the CLEO can't block you. You just have to tell them what you've done. It's better from my perspective.
The "Responsible Persons" thing is only with trusts, correct? More specific, other trustees listed on the trust? Or is it any adults in the household even if they're not listed on the trust?
Nothing has changed with those filing as an individual, other than the CLEO notification, correct?
Change trusts to entities and the answer is yes. Responsible persons are parts of trusts/corps/LLCs.
Every responsible person now has the same process as an individual. Prints and photos, and only a CLEO notification.
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