View Full Version : Reloading Presses Revisited
Guys , looking for some input here . I`ve used the search function , but can`t find much about presses that isn`t several years old .
Been shooting for years and want to get back into reloading . Now that I`ve retired , I`m doing a whole lot more shooting , going to schools and starting to build up a decent supply of once fired brass . My first press was and is an old single stage RCBS Rockchucker , so I feel I have nowhere to go but up . That said , I shoot mostly 9mm and .45ACP in my handguns and will move into the .223/5.56 down the road . I`m a little late coming to the AR platform ..... the first rifle I was issued was an M1 Garand ... so time to come into the modern world .
I`ve narrowed it down to either the Dillon RL550B or the Hornady LnL , but am leaning towards the Dillon unit . I would like to hear input , pro and con on each and which accessories to start off with and then build on ..... can`t afford to do everything at once . I already have measuring equipment ( used to build my own engines for my track cars ) , Franklin Arsenal tumbler , case trimmer , scales etc . Also have the Nosler and Lyman 49th edition manuals . The dies I have are RCBS 9mm and .45 , which don`t appear to be carbide .
As I said any and all comments are welcome . Just because this is the stuff I have , doesn`t mean it`s what will work "best " , just what was accumulated over the years .
Thanks .... Bob
550b is a great machine. Ive loaded thousands on one.
I now load on a 1050.
With that said, for 98% of people a 1050 is overkill, hell its overkill for me.
I would skip a 550b and go to a 650XL at least. It has more abilities than a 550b as well as being faster.
-650 case feeder is same as a 1050 and works better than the 550b case feeder, which is its own feeder and is limited I believe in calibers.
-650 has an extra space in the tool head for something like a Mr Bullet Feeder(IMO one of the best reloading items I have bought next to my RCBS Chargemaster)
-650 has a "better" priming system than the 550b, although it does have its quirks too, but the 550b priming system is abysmal at best and the weakest point on that machine
Caliber conversions on a 650 vs. a 550b might be 20-30 extra(tool heads are I think 10 bucks more and shell plates around the same).
While you may look at a 650 and its added capabilities as "stuff ill never use", trust me, you MIGHT use it and if you want to and cant(because you bought a 550b) you will be mad. Although Dillon machines hold their value like no other so if you wanted to ugprade in the future, you can.
Auto-X Fil
05-13-16, 12:09
We have a couple Rockchuckers for rifle stuff, a Lee Turret, a Hornady Lock n Load, and now a Dillon 650. I've run 550s before.
I load 38, 357, 44spl, 44 mag, 380, 9mm, .40, .45, 10mm, .223, and .308 on the Turret, and it's super-easy to swap calibers. I keep that press around for running off another 100-500 rounds of something real quick, or doing load development. Once set up and running, I can do 250-300rd/hr, including adding primers to the Auto Prime.
Then, we have a 650 for massive runs, 500rd-5,000 rounds. It's pretty much always set up for 9mm, and we just churn through that stuff at 600-800 rounds per hour, including loading primer tubes. It's also much smoother and easier and nicer to run than the Turret. The 650 takes longer to switch calibers, especially if you're changing primer sizes. If you have a big stash of components and can leave it set up for one caliber for several thousand rounds, and only do a few different calibers (9, 45, .223), then the 650 with casefeed adapter is a pretty tremendous machine.
The 550 is easier to swap between calibers, but is a bit slower than the 650, although just as nice and smooth. If you are going to do smaller quantities of many calibers, and would only do 200-1000 rounds between changing calibers, the 550 is a good choice. For me, having a 650 AND a Turret is better than just a 550, but I have too many calibers around, and so that's probably not the best setup for most people.
Primus Pilum
05-13-16, 12:34
Not a reloading press but the 2 best single products you can buy for reloading are:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ILI3S9S/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2PAQCG75GPZDF&coliid=I1BXYVNZ75DF40
&
http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm
Both will last a lifetime, save you countless hours and make reloading less tedious. No matter what press I used, I would not reload if it wasn't for these 2.
Amazon also has the Hornady electric powder dispenser on sale and IME, is a MUCH better unit with much better factory support after the 1 year warranty is up than the RCBS chargemaster:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O20UOW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2PAQCG75GPZDF&coliid=I3G1HZPJ94J9LD
Also, this is the place to get your mounts/bullet trays/ect:
http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/ultramounts
Good luck and happy shooting.
Dillon is the better choice.
I would recommend purchasing through http://www.brianenos.com/
He does a very good job of helping people new to Dillon products figure out what they need. Just check out his store on the website. He also does packages that may fit your needs very well.
I used him for my first Dillon purchase, got everything I needed, and then got a phone call from Brian because I had ordered a redundant item and he could save me some $ by removing it from the order.
Auto-X Fil
05-13-16, 13:52
Totally agree on Brian. Good dude and super-helpful.
I have two single stage pressing and a Hornady LNL AP. I went with the Hornady because I load for many different guns, 223, 7.62x39, 6.5x55, 303, 308, 243, 270, 30x47, 30-30, 8mm, 7mag, 45-70, 30-06. 7.62x54r, and then there are the pistol calibers 32H&R, 38 special, 357, 9mm Luger, 45LC, 45acp, 44mag,.
the Hornady is lower priced to buy and easy to change over but it is slower then the Dillon 650. But I have broken parts on the press and Hornady has always shipped me replacements for free. Help is just a phone call away. I do not use a bullet feeder or a brass feeder.
I like the Hornady AP and its $399.00 on sale with 500 free bullets.
If you shoot 1000s of the same caliber I would say pay for the 650 but if you shoot different things and run batches of 200 to 300 a time then get the Hornady.
I went with the Hornady because I load for many different guns,
If you shoot 1000s of the same caliber I would say pay for the 650 but if you shoot different things and run batches of 200 to 300 a time then get the Hornady.
I have heard this argument before, but it doesnt hold water.
Caliber conversions between the two are within a couple dollars.
Bushings are around $5 a piece for the Hornady(needs 4-5 per caliber). Tool heads for the 550 are $20, or $28 for the 650. So $20-25 in bushings or a $20-28 tool head. Wash.
Hornady shell plates are ~$40. Dillon shell plates are $39. Wash.
If you run a case feeder the hornady plates are ~30 vs. 39 for the dillon. Slight advantage to Hornady there.
Dies are the same between machines i.e. any standard dies work. Both machines come with both primer setups. Both machines come with both powder setups(i dont know how the Hornady works vs. the dillon).
Maybe some other small differences, but a few bucks difference in caliber conversions.
That old single stage Rockchucker is a rugged and very well built press and there are plenty of single stage presses that don't hold a candle to it. I remember once upon a time RCBS even made a piggy back conversion unit for it that converted it to a progressive.
If you think you're going to be reloading vast quantities of rounds though, you really can't go wrong by getting the Dillon 650.
Thanks for the replies and info .... just what I was looking for . I went to Brian`s site , lots of good stuff there , so that`s where I`ll start . Anytime I see that many thumbs up on someone , there has to be a reason .
Just curious , I`ve been using all factory loads and am just starting to accumulate primers and powder . Heard that CCI small pistol primers are harder than some of the others out there . Also , time to start researching powders to stock up on for the 9mm and .45 .
Again , thanks for the help !
Has anybody pointed out that the 550B is NOT self-indexing, and this fact makes operating the press less complicated. I ask the op this question: how important is speed, and if speed is important, how much more volume will the other machines provide?
I reload for several handgun calibers. My emphasis is on good technique and precision. Recently I processed 300 .45 Colt cases with the 550B. I ran the cases through a size/decap die on the first station and proceeded to the second station for expansion with a Lyman M-die. The cases were ejected into the blue box. To clean primer pockets I tumbled the cases in corn cobb media. Then I primed them with a bench tool. The final destination was a plastic bag to be loaded later. Eventually, Ill finish by loading this batch with a yet undetermined powder charge and one of my home cast bullets. I'll probably complete the task using a Redding turret press. Once I settle on a suitable powder/bullet combination, I can then complete the entire process on the press, or I may not.
I use a Square Deal B to reload .45 acp ammo using a tried and true combination. I've dedicated this press for this one round. So, there are lots of ways to skin the cat. I'm old as dirt and have more time(actually not that much)than money. I posted to show that a progressive can be used in ways other than full speed ahead. The 550B's simplicity increases its versatility.
Why did I buy a SDB? Because it ran its original owner crazy, and he paid me to rescue him from it. They are great presses but less idiot proof than the 550B.
Lots of good info on Enos and Dillon. I've been loading 9mm, 45, and 223 for several years on a 550b. Dillon's warranty and customer service are outstanding. I would also recommend the strong mount and roller handle. The caliber quick change kits are great and can be added later.
If I could do it all over again I own a single stag press and a Dillon 650 with all the change overs for the different calibers I reload for.
willejc .... thanks for the user feedback . I figured out the 550B doesn`t index and that doesn`t bother me as I , at this point , don`t plane on running 1,000 rnds at a time . Since I retired , I have more time on my hands , so speed is important but not the #1 or even #2 factor .When I go to the range , I normally do drills like FAST , Dot and Dot Torture etc . After I run a drill , I analyze to see what I did and how to improve .... I don`t do magazine dumps ... I try to improve . If I need higher volume in the future , I figure I can sell the 550B as Dillon appears to have good resale value and then step up .
Tigereye .. thanks , the strong mount and roller handle are now on my list and the quick change kits will be considered .
Thanks guys
The 550b being manual index doesnt bother me, you can get into a pretty good rhythm. The sketchy primer system bugs me more, although supposedly its fixed with a kit like this:
http://appliedweaponstech.com/products/dillon-550-550b-primer-track-bearing-plate-wball-bearing
Not sure if thats the exact one my old man bought, but he bought that and said it basically cured the primer slide issues he had. He also did the shell plate bearing and said it helps with consistency because he cant tighten down the shell plate bolt tighter now and still index properly.
Before you buy the strongmount, take Primus Pilums advice and check out inline fabrications mount. I own both, the inline fab mount is much more solid. I mean you could park a freaking truck on it...
As far as powder and primers, I learned long ago that unless you were running a lightened/skeletonized firing pin, you could use small rifle primers for 9mm/40. Yes they are hotter, adjust loads accordingly. The thicker cup of the rifle primer will not work with lightened/skeletonized firing pins. Save yourself some pain if you plan to reload rifle and pistol, and just stock rifle primers.
Powder wise, Vihtavuori powder is top notch. Very clean, very consistent both temp wise and lot to lot. N320 is probably the best 9mm powder out there. N340 will cover both 9mm and .40 and do it well. Sadly, the VV powders are pricey. I still use them, just received an order of 16lb of N130 from powder valley last week.
That said, there are plenty of other powders out there that will work fine at a lower cost.
Finally, if you do the quick change kit, I would suggest dedicating a powder measure to rifle and another to pistol. This way you do not have to change power bars to go from rifle to pistol. Even better is to have a powder measure on each toolhead (each cartridge) but that gets pricey.
Best of luck!
Coal Dragger
05-14-16, 11:52
I run a Dillon XL650 and a Redding T7. High volume loading on the Dillon, small batches and load development on the Redding. I love both of those presses, and aside from a few odds and ends like a powered case trimmer on the Dillon (just have to buy it) I am very happy with my setup. The Dillon can turn out very very nice ammo for rifle or pistol, and it does it fast! Just get the case feeder, spare parts kit, a strong mount or Inline Fabrication's mount (my preference), and the roller handle.
The XL650 has advantages over the RL550 in that it automatically indexes, has a far superior primer feed, has a better case feeder (since it was designed for case feeder use), and has a 5th slot in the tool head allowing a powder check die. I really like the powder check as an added safety measure since it gives you a visual and audible indication of an under charged or overcharged case. Worth the piece of mind to me.
I'd love a 1050, but just can't justify one right now. The XL650 is close enough for me.
williejc brings up a good point. If you deprime with the Dillon it is imperative to keep the primer slide bar clean. Otherwise it will bind, and cause lots of problems. Investing in a Lee Universal Decapping Die for your Rockchucker will eliminate this problem. Or, you could hand prime your brass ahead of time. That is what I do.
wilson1911
05-14-16, 12:30
I do all my reloading on the 550. 9 45 338 6.5cm. It makes very good ammo. If you are planning on doing rifle, other than 223, I would get the 550. I use it as a single stage for loading rifle. So I can have the deprimer, resizer, expander, and seater in the press without having to change much. I also have a single stage kit I bought off of amazon that turns it into a real single. This is used for converting 308 lapua to 6.5 creed.
If your loading mostly pistol I would opt for the 650. It will cost about 1/3 more to setup over the 550. Lastly, if you think you may want to go to the feeders in the future, its better all the way around.
On my 550 I run machined heads, microtech powder measure, bearing plate for primer bar, press light kit, and bearings on the index. When I load rifle I resize/prime and then have a second tray with the chargemaster going filling cases. When I finish RS/prime, I start seating bullets while the CM is filling cases with powder. I can load 50 an hour with ease, but I also measure every round.
Pistol is easy, and when loading thousands of rounds the 650 is a better choice. The 550 as others have stated, is just a small bit more work. OH, get a roller handle also.
If considering a progressive Dillon> all other progressives on the market. The people who buy hornady/lee cannot afford the dillon.
masan you should get the bearing plate kit for the primer bar, it solves this problem. I will agree that once you figure out your not priming, you have already loaded a plate full.
Coal Dragger
05-14-16, 12:38
Since the OP already has a Rock Chucker for his reloading needs for non high volume rifle, I think he might appreciate the XL650 more than the 550.
Either one is an outstanding press. This is like having an argument about the merits of a Porsche 911 Carerra S vs Porsche Cayman GTS. They're both awesome, just in slightly different ways.
masan you should get the bearing plate kit for the primer bar, it solves this problem. I will agree that once you figure out your not priming, you have already loaded a plate full.
Nah, I hand prime everything now. I agree that there are ways to improve the priming mechanism on the Dillon. I just feel that hand priming brass, especially with a well made hand primer, allows you an unparalleled feel of your brass.
The Redding T7 is a solid product, I do not own one but intend to.
My reloading is limited to specific cartridges for hunting or long range.
Surplus NATO production is still cheap enough, but no doubt that will be changing (in it's availability).
Coal Dragger
05-15-16, 02:21
The T7 is a beast. Love mine.
Didn`t think about the T7 , but after looking at it , it just may do what I want ....... and it`s on sale at Brownells .
masan , you mentioned using a well made hand primer . Any suggestions as I just checked and mine is an old RCBS ( 30 + years old ) .
Thanks
The T7 is solid, mine gets used for rverything my Dillon doesn't.
I think the the RCBS Universal hand primer is a good choice, i use it for a good amount of loading.
That said, for precision, I use the K&M hand primer. K&M stuff is good to go. Benchrest oriented stuff, may be overkill for what you want to do.
the 550b priming system is abysmal at best and the weakest point on that machine
So True! Mine sits idle. I pulled the operation rod and simply never use it at all.
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