View Full Version : Geissele SD-C, SD-E, or SD-3G
phaseshift
05-15-16, 18:40
I currently have a Geissele SSA-E in my lower, love the trigger but I am wondering if there is a better trigger out there. I also want to try a flat bow trigger as well. So it's come down to the SD-C, SD-E and the SD-3G. I do not have experience on any of the three, what are the main differences? What would you guys recommend for an all purpose carbine?
My AR:
Upper:
KAC 14.5" SR-15 MOD 2 Upper
KAC Micro BUIS
KAC MAMS Brake
BCM MOD A44 Ambi Charging Handle
Larue LT660 1/3 Co-witness Mount
Aimpoint T2 2MOA Red Dot
Lower:
Noveske Gen 3 Lower
Geissele SSA-E Trigger
Daniel Defense Lower Parts Kit
Battle Arms BAD-CASS-SA-ST
VLTOR IMOD Stock
BCM Buffer Tube and Spring
KAC SR15 Buffer
Jwknutson17
05-15-16, 19:00
I bought one SD-C a year or so ago and liked it so much, I ended up selling all of my SSA and SSA-E triggers for SD-C and SD-E triggers. I now have flat Geissele triggers in all of my rifles. One thing I do really like with the geissele SD triggers is how it puts the trigger face further forward. Having larger hands, I get a much better, straight to the rear, trigger pull with the SD-C/E triggers. If you also have your finger lower on the trigger, the perceived pull seems lighter. Just barley. I prefer the SD-C in all my SBR's and RDS equipped rifles. All the SPR or precision rifles get the SD-E's. The SSA is the same as the SD-C, and the SSA-E is the same as the SD-C. Besides the trigger face of course. I would never put a 3G trigger in a rifle like yours..
Bill Geissele made a video that explains the purpose behind each trigger, and what the specs and feel are for each. I would recommend watching that, he does a very good job of explaining them (makes sense as he designed them as well). The the SD-C is an SSA with a flat trigger, same as the SD-E being an SSA-E with a flat trigger. The SD-3G is a whole different trigger. It has a longer single stage pull that is made for shooting quickly, and it does. If you can, find someone local that you can try each yourself, especially the 3 gun trigger. Then you can make your choice based on actually using them.
Fluffy Bunny
05-15-16, 19:31
I have a sd-e I've used for about a thousand rounds. It is nowhere near a superlight bench trigger but it is very very different from a normal trigger. I believe I would be more comfortable with the sd-c for an "all purpose" rifle.
I've used/have the SSA, SD-E, and SD-C.
I started off with the SSA in a 16" Noveske Recon. It was a nice improvement over a GI trigger, but it didn't really change the performance; the SSA simply made the trigger smoother, more predictable, and consistent, but it still felt like a GI trigger in performance.
A bit later, I decided to change out the SSA for an SD-E and it completely changed the feel of the gun. It went from just being a consistent trigger to feeling like a precision weapon. Combined with a bipod, my Recon actually felt and performed like a compact SASS (which is what I wanted, as it's a recce-rifle clone). The flat trigger bow gives you a consistent pull regardless of where you put your finger, yet also results in less overall finger-to-trigger contact, so it feels lighter than it is.
I decided later to build a traditional M4gery, but I loved the flat bow of the SD-E. I didn't want a trigger as light as the SD-E on an M4/CQB-type build, so the natural choice was to go with the SD-C. The SD-C has the same pull weight and consistency of the SSA, but it gives a perceived ("feels") lighter pull (due to the straight trigger bow).
The SD-3G is a single-stage trigger, so it is going to be different from any of the others you mentioned. I haven't used the SD-3G trigger yet - I prefer two-stage triggers - so I can't speak about it from personal experience.
TL;DR, I would describe the triggers with the following:
SD-C - a CQB-capable trigger with qualities that lend themselves to precision if necessary
SD-E - a precision trigger that could be used in a CQB-type situation, but that's not it's intended role
SD-3G - a single stage trigger created for shooting quickly, but lacking the predictability of the two-stage triggers
Pick the trigger based on what role you intend to use your rifle in.
I vote the SD-C, which I currently run. On an all-purpose carbine, I'd err on the side of a slightly heavier trigger. Like another mentioned, you can also manipulate it from the tip of the trigger to produce the illusion of about 1/2 a pound to 1 pound lighter pull. I do that when shooting for accuracy from a rest and, while it might all be in my head, it does seem lighter. Additionally, I've heard that you can swap the disconnect spring with a plain old mil-spec one and it will drop the pull by about a pound. I think Geissele will even sell you the springs to do the same. The only word of caution, is the the reduction in pull weight will likely not change the "feel" of the break. Meaning, the "C" version breaks like a carrot, the "E" version breaks like an icicle.
I don't have experience with the SD-3G, but have heard that it is crazy fast. But, I haven't heard many recommend it for a carbine that could be used in a HD situation.
Good luck with your decision. Ultimately, it's hard to go wrong with any of those options.
phaseshift
05-15-16, 19:58
I've used/have the SSA, SD-E, and SD-C.
I started off with the SSA in a 16" Noveske Recon. It was a nice improvement over a GI trigger, but it didn't really change the performance; the SSA simply made the trigger smoother, more predictable, and consistent, but it still felt like a GI trigger in performance.
A bit later, I decided to change out the SSA for an SD-E and it completely changed the feel of the gun. It went from just being a consistent trigger to feeling like a precision weapon. Combined with a bipod, my Recon actually felt and performed like a compact SASS (which is what I wanted, as it's a recce-rifle clone). The flat trigger bow gives you a consistent pull regardless of where you put your finger, yet also results in less overall finger-to-trigger contact, so it feels lighter than it is.
I decided later to build a traditional M4gery, but I loved the flat bow of the SD-E. I didn't want a trigger as light as the SD-E on an M4/CQB-type build, so the natural choice was to go with the SD-C. The SD-C has the same pull weight and consistency of the SSA, but it gives a perceived ("feels") lighter (due to the straight trigger bow).
The SD-3G is a single-stage trigger, so it is going to be different from any of the others you mentioned. I haven't used the SD-3G trigger yet - I prefer two-stage triggers - so I can't speak about it from personal experience.
TL;DR, I would describe the triggers with the following:
SD-C - a CQB-capable trigger with qualities that lend themselves to precision if necessary
SD-E - a precision trigger that could be used in a CQB-type situation, but that's not it's intended role
SD-3G - a single stage trigger created for shooting quickly, but lacking the predictability of the two-stage triggers
Pick the trigger based on what role you intend to use your rifle in.
Thanks for your detailed post! Given that you described the SD-C to be a CQB trigger with the ability to be precise I'm kind of leaning towards that one. Which would be different from my SSA-E hmm...choices choices
I have a SD-3G and really don't care for it. Don't get me wrong it's a FAST trigger but it doesn't have a defined wall. It's more of a rolling trigger with a short reset.
Does the SD-C have a defined wall before the trigger breaks? I like to shoot a trigger that has a crisp break and a short reset so I can ride the reset so to speak.
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I have a SD-3G and really don't care for it. Don't get me wrong it's a FAST trigger but it doesn't have a defined wall. It's more of a rolling trigger with a short reset.
Does the SD-C have a defined wall before the trigger breaks? I like to shoot a trigger that has a crisp break and a short reset so I can ride the reset so to speak.
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Yes the SD-C and SD-E both have a definite wall at the end of the 1st stage.
Cant go wrong with any of them. I run the SD3G on several rifles that I use on duty, they wont go bang until you put your booger picker on the trigger and pull.
I have a SD-3G and really don't care for it. Don't get me wrong it's a FAST trigger but it doesn't have a defined wall. It's more of a rolling trigger with a short reset.
Does the SD-C have a defined wall before the trigger breaks? I like to shoot a trigger that has a crisp break and a short reset so I can ride the reset so to speak.
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Yes the SD-C and SD-E both have a definite wall at the end of the 1st stage.
I can second that; regarding the defined wall for both the C and E. I memory serves, I think that the reason your SD-3G doesn't have the wall you're looking for is due to it actually being a single stage trigger. To me, the reset on the SD-C is pretty short, but you may not have that same opinion is switching from a SD-3G. You can definitely "ride" it and the feel of the reset is very defined.
I'd go with the SD-C in an all purpose rifle. I have an SD-C in a couple rifles that wear a red dot optic. On my scoped rifle I chose the SD-E for the slightly lighter trigger pull.
I'd go with the SD-C in an all purpose rifle. I have an SD-C in a couple rifles that wear a red dot optic. On my scoped rifle I chose the SD-E for the slightly lighter trigger pull.
I have come to the same conclusion owning all the above triggers in various AR's. I love my SD-3G but you need to pay attention when shooting it.
Dennis.
I have a SDC on my LMT and a SDE on my M110K1 build.
For a "normal" AR, I stick to SDC. For something like an SPR, SDE.
At some point, all my ARs will have a Geissele.
I like the SDC because it, to me, feels like a Glock trigger. Maybe not so much in tactile form but weight and consistency, if that makes sense. It's kinda hard to go back to the stock trigger.
Bill Geissele made a video that explains the purpose behind each trigger, and what the specs and feel are for each. I would recommend watching that, he does a very good job of explaining them (makes sense as he designed them as well). The the SD-C is an SSA with a flat trigger, same as the SD-E being an SSA-E with a flat trigger. The SD-3G is a whole different trigger. It has a longer single stage pull that is made for shooting quickly, and it does. If you can, find someone local that you can try each yourself, especially the 3 gun trigger. Then you can make your choice based on actually using them.
I just watched that video earlier today. Worth watching. He mentioned that the SD-C is an SSA with a flat trigger and the shape of the flat trigger makes the SD-C feel lighter than the SSA, but they are the same triggers.
I’ve never shot anything but mil spec triggers, but just installed an SSA today, but have not shot it yet. The grit of the mil spec trigger is gone. Hence, my interest in triggers right now.
Given my poll choices I would pick the C trigger. The E was too edgy for me in an everyday rifle. I switched out an SD-E for a TTU. I really like the TTU but immediately missed the reach of the SD's straight bow. I also have long fingers. The SD-E is a fine trigger for precision work but I am a trigger jerker!
SD-C is my favorite. I don't know what it is about the straight trigger bow but I love it.
nj0ywatch1np0rn
05-16-16, 11:33
I have a SSA-E and feels that more than enough trigger for an everyday needs rifle.
Also use a SD3G on my 3gun rifle and this thing is fast and light. The flat bow trigger and a light pull gives it a perception of an even lighter pull so you really have to be careful.
I started off with the SSA in a 16" Noveske Recon. It was a nice improvement over a GI trigger, but it didn't really change the performance; the SSA simply made the trigger smoother, more predictable, and consistent, but it still felt like a GI trigger in performance.Not to discount your experience but newbies may get the wrong idea.
For newbies:
A milspec trigger can be 6, 7, 8+ lbs out of the box, single stage, with noticeable grit and excess pretravel. The SSF/SSA offer a smooth 4.5 lb two stage trigger every time.
Not to discount your experience but newbies may get the wrong idea.
For newbies:
A milspec trigger can be 6, 7, 8+ lbs out of the box, single stage, with noticeable grit and excess pretravel. The SSF/SSA offer a smooth 4.5 lb two stage trigger every time.
No offense taken. Clearly, the two-stage SSA is smoother and more refined than any typical single-stage mil-spec trigger. That said, it doesn't "feel" like a precision-oriented trigger (as the type you might expect with a bolt action or a 1911) - not that it's supposed to be - which is what I was trying to convey to someone who might not know what to expect. It's an improvement, but it's still going to feel like a GI trigger, just a better GI trigger.
phaseshift
05-16-16, 13:52
SD-C or SD-E hmmm...I enjoy my SSA-E and the lighter trigger. Leaning towards the SD-E now
SD-C or SD-E hmmm...I enjoy my SSA-E and the lighter trigger. Leaning towards the SD-E now
The SD-C will make it feel more like a combat rifle and less like a precision carbine.
My .02 - the rifle, based on your parts list, appears to be more of a general-use carbine. The SD-C (or SSA, same trigger with a different bow) would seem to be more suited to it. I'd put an SD-C in it and then start a new precision AR build with your SSA-E trigger, if funds allow. You'd probably appreciate the SSA-E (or SD-E) more in a precision platform.
I am following this thread as I am looking at two of the same triggers SD-C and SD-e. The rifle it will go in is a BCM 16" recce.
Got 2 SD-E and I LOVE them!
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I'm another one for the SD-E. I just got one about 3 weeks ago, and have put 1000 rounds on it and it's pretty frickin amazing. I have several CMC triggers cause I love the flat bow and decided to try the SD-E cause the price wasn't much different, and I am thoroughly impressed. I have it on a 16" cause I like a lighter pull overall. I'm not military or LEO so I don't necessarily require a heavier pull for certain situations. The wall is very definitive at the end of the first stage and the second stage VERY crisp and light. I'm very pleased with it and will be using it in all future assemblies. I do so love that flat trigger. :)
phaseshift
05-16-16, 20:11
for the guys that went with the SD-E instead of the SD-C what kind of AR are you guys using it on?
for the guys that went with the SD-E instead of the SD-C what kind of AR are you guys using it on?
I'm running one in my 10.5" SBR and the other in my 16" middy...
Mine is a home brew. It's in a Spikes lower with A5, Magpul CTR stock, MIAD grip, BAD ambi selector, that has a 16" Heavy fluted SS Faxon barrel, BCM upper, and 15" Geissele MK8 rail, SLR Sentry 7 gas block and SD Tactical muzzle brake. I have ran it a bit with my ARAK upper as well. That's my setup that I'm using it with.
for the guys that went with the SD-E instead of the SD-C what kind of AR are you guys using it on?
The one rifle I chose the SD-E over the SD-C is a 16" mid length with a 1-4x scope.
phaseshift
05-16-16, 22:21
Right now I have an aimpoint t2 but I plan on getting a Leopold Mark 6 1-6x in the near future so I think I'll be better set with SD-E
You may decide before the weekend, but I plan to swap the disconnect spring that came with my SD-C for a mil-spec one just to see what it actually does to the pull. I'm not unhappy with the SD-C, but have been eager to try this swap for a while. I just love to tinker with stuff. This thread is the perfect impetus for finally giving it a shot.
I'll let you all know what I find.
You may want to rethink that one.
"I just love to tinker with stuff"
Sounds like you're gonna fork up a perfectly good trigger to me.
"I just love to tinker with stuff"
Sounds like you're gonna fork up a perfectly good trigger to me.
By swapping a disconnect spring? Doubtful. Especially when Geissele states that it's one of two things a person can do to tweak the pull. The other is to bend the trigger spring, which I'm far less enthusiastic about due to a much greater margin for error. Both are things I've seen quoted from Geissle employees; one quote coming from Billl himself. They'll even sell someone different springs if you call and inquire about what it would take to do "X" to one of their triggers; if the desired goal can actually be achieved. But, if it makes you all feel better I'll call them and ask today.
When I say, "I love to tinker with stuff", I don't mean in a careless "I wonder what this will do" way. Anything I've "tweaked" has been after finding a consensus of individuals with far more knowledge than I. Think things like swapping a ghost connector for the stock connector in a Glock. Yet, I understand the reason for apprehension from the forum's members, and appreciate it.
... but I plan to swap the disconnector that came with my SD-C for a mil-spec one just to see what it actually does to the pull.
By swapping a disconnect spring?
Our concern comes from the word omitted in your previous post. Carry on.
Our concern comes from the word omitted in your previous post. Carry on.
That makes sense, and I see how that could be cause for concern. Thanks for calling that out, as I didn't catch it earlier when reading your reply. That post was at 2 am after a long day of installing some hardwood floors and I got a little sloppy with my terminology.
I'll edit it now. Not that I want to cover/excuse the error, but I'd hate for someone new to read it and not realize it was a mistake.
On a side note I did recieve a response from Geissele. They confirmed you can bend the trigger spring "legs" and swap the disconnect spring, but if you want the easy solution they'll sell you the springs to convert an SD-C to a 3.5lb pull.
Thanks everyone and sorry about that error!
By swapping a disconnect spring? Doubtful. Especially when Geissele states that it's one of two things a person can do to tweak the pull. The other is to bend the trigger spring, which I'm far less enthusiastic about due to a much greater margin for error. Both are things I've seen quoted from Geissle employees; one quote coming from Billl himself. They'll even sell someone different springs if you call and inquire about what it would take to do "X" to one of their triggers; if the desired goal can actually be achieved. But, if it makes you all feel better I'll call them and ask today.
When I say, "I love to tinker with stuff", I don't mean in a careless "I wonder what this will do" way. Anything I've "tweaked" has been after finding a consensus of individuals with far more knowledge than I. Think things like swapping a ghost connector for the stock connector in a Glock. Yet, I understand the reason for apprehension from the forum's members, and appreciate it.
It is easy to defend yourself after editing your post! For the record the C and E use the same spring in the disconnector. I don't care what springs you bend, cut, or replace in the C or what weight you get it down to it won't make it an E trigger.
I started with a SSA trigger and was curious about the flat bow with the SD-C/E triggers. So I purchased a SD-C trigger and installed in in my SBR and loved it. Even though it is the SSA but with a flat face as others have said it does feel like it has a lighter pull. It has a definite wall and the break of the 2nd stage is crisp with a short reset. At this point I have the SD-C in 4 other guns along with my original SSA in one other. I might try a SD-E for my LMT 308 but that is a "might"
More than once in Iraq I found myself applying a slow press to my trigger when the situation changed. I gained a better PID, the car came to a screeching halt, etc... I am grateful for the margin of error built into a mil-spec trigger that let me back off of it before the shot broke.
I currently run an SD-C and SSA and will not be going any lighter in the AR platform.
It is easy to defend yourself after editing your post! For the record the C and E use the same spring in the disconnector. I don't care what springs you bend, cut, or replace in the C or what weight you get it down to it won't make it an E trigger.
I happily admitted the error. If you look at all of my other posts in this thread you'll see that I referred to the "disconnect spring" in all instances before and after the post in question. I acknowledge the mis-step in the post at hand, but felt it was prudent to edit as to not cause a headache for someone who did not realize the error; and even called out that I was going to edit for that reason...twice. It was an honest mistake, and I'm glad someone caught it.
I also never said the C and E do not use the same disconnect spring. I was comparing a mil-spec spring to the C spring; which are different. And, in practice have shown to reduce the second stage weight. Now, all mil-spec springs will not necessarily be the same. So one's MMV.
Finally, I never said it turned a C into an E. Again, back to my first post, I explained that the weight can be made roughly the same, but the feeling of the break (carrot vs icicle) will not change.
My point all along was to introduce a reality that is often unacknowledged in the Geissele threads. The fact that their non-adjustable triggers actually can be tweaked; and in a way that is approved and facilitated by their Company. So, if someone picked up a C or an E, and wished they had tried the other, they don't necessarily have to run out and drop another couple hundred bucks on a new trigger. Shoot them an email or give them a call, and see what they might be able to offer. Will it be absolutely identical? When it comes to the feel of the break, no. When it comes to the pull weight, maybe. Instead of bickering over an error we instead could be celebrating a company with that kind of service and willingness to say, "yeah, you can do that and we can help."
"So, if someone picked up a C or an E, and wished they had tried the other, they don't necessarily have to run out and drop another couple hundred bucks on a new trigger"
Wrong again. I am the someone you suggest could fix buying the wrong trigger with springs. Bought an SD-E and found it way too edgy for a do everything rifle as I mentioned before. Put C springs in it and it didn't feel different enough to talk about. Pull weight doesn't make a trigger a good trigger for your intended use.
"So, if someone picked up a C or an E, and wished they had tried the other, they don't necessarily have to run out and drop another couple hundred bucks on a new trigger"
Wrong again. I am the someone you suggest could fix buying the wrong trigger with springs. Bought an SD-E and found it way too edgy for a do everything rifle as I mentioned before. Put C springs in it and it didn't feel different enough to talk about. Pull weight doesn't make a trigger a good trigger for your intended use.
It's too bad it didn't work for you. It doesn't mean it won't work for someone else's intended use. The "edgy" feel for you eludes to the break, not the pull weight. If one likes the feel of the break, but wishes it were lighter or heavier, the springs are worth a shot. I don't see where the major disagreement is here, when all along I've said the pull weight is the only thing that could potentially be adjusted.
Unfortunately, I don't think anything productive will come of this, but instead will only further sidetrack the thread. I don't want to be a party responsible for getting it shut down, so I'll leave it at that.
Happy shooting, brother!
phaseshift
05-18-16, 00:07
More than once in Iraq I found myself applying a slow press to my trigger when the situation changed. I gained a better PID, the car came to a screeching halt, etc... I am grateful for the margin of error built into a mil-spec trigger that let me back off of it before the shot broke.
I currently run an SD-C and SSA and will not be going any lighter in the AR platform.
You bring up a good point there and it goes in line with with what was mentioned earlier when comparing the SD-C and SD-E
"SD-C - a CQB-capable trigger with qualities that lend themselves to precision if necessary
SD-E - a precision trigger that could be used in a CQB-type situation, but that's not it's intended role"
If I go off that as a baseline of the two triggers it would make sens for me to go with the SD-C, I think I've gotten so used to the SSA-E feel that I'm more inclined to go with the SD-E but then again I've never used the SSA or SD-C maybe I'll just start with the SD-C and if I don't like it I'll go with the SD-E.
I have SD-E triggers in two rifles. Both of those rifles are wearing scopes and used for hunting and bench target shooting. I haven't shot the SD-C but would have to think it would be the better option on a general purpose rifle. On the SD-E I can easily pull through the break and second stage if I'm a little aggressive...
My non-scoped rifles have G2S or OEM triggers in them.
I know this thread has a little age to it, but PSA has a sale running for the 4th on Geissele triggers.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=4635&q=geissele
They aren't the quite "black Friday" type discounts, but are still a good deal if anyone looking to upgrade their trigger.
ETA: Primary Arms is also running a sale on Geissele. Greater selection and the prices are a bit lower than PSA
http://www.primaryarms.com/triggers/c/740/
Ahhh, I'm torn. I'm used to Geissle just having the Hi-Speed with different springs....now they have all these choices.
As loathe as I am to swap out a robust internal part of a 6920 I absolutely want a better trigger, one that is not fragile though. I'm leaning towards the S3G but I see a lot of "too easy to bumpfire" "bad for longer shots" "not safe for use other than gaming" comments. The first complaint I see being resolved with training, the second I can't see. The milspec trigger is single stage and heavy and gritty as hell, so while not as nice as an SSA-E for 50-100 yd shots unmagnified I'm sure it is still an improvement. I can't wrap my head around the third complaint. I guess people are afraid of rapid fire in home defense situations?
I know this thread has a little age to it, but PSA has a sale running for the 4th on Geissele triggers.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=4635&q=geissele
They aren't the quite "black Friday" type discounts, but are still a good deal if anyone looking to upgrade their trigger.
ETA: Primary Arms is also running a sale on Geissele. Greater selection and the prices are a bit lower than PSA
http://www.primaryarms.com/triggers/c/740/
Annnddd there goes $187.50 ...
Thanks for the heads up. The SD-E was one of the last things I needed for my SPR build.. That's the cheapest I've seen that particular trigger, and almost exactly what I paid for my SD3G when they first came out and were on sale at Midway. I love Geissele's triggers, but I refuse to pay MSRP for just about anything.
I'm the same way. Love their triggers and, even at full retail, they're worth every penny. But, unless I absolutely need an item, I let the frugal side of me take over and delay gratification. That frugality landed me an SD-C for $168 when PA did a 30% off sale last year during the holidays.
Glad I could help someone out. Enjoy the trigger!
CanineCombatives
07-01-16, 19:53
Question for the OP, have you ever tried a CMC single stage flat in either 3.5 or 4.5lb?
Or the 2 stage 1-3lb?
A whole bunch of working folk that worshiped at the geiselle shrine switched, myself included, just food for thought.
Question for the OP, have you ever tried a CMC single stage flat in either 3.5 or 4.5lb?
Or the 2 stage 1-3lb?
A whole bunch of working folk that worshiped at the geiselle shrine switched, myself included, just food for thought.
Why the switch?
Why the switch?
I'm interested to hear as well. I never had the itch to try any of the "cassette style" triggers because it seems they all had various issues in holding up to long term use. At least when they were new anyway.
I'm interested to hear as well. I never had the itch to try any of the "cassette style" triggers because it seems they all had various issues in holding up to long term use. At least when they were new anyway.
Most of them have to use anti rotating pins, jack screws or C-clips (CMC) to hold them in. No Thanks! The only cassette trigger held in the normal way I know of is the Wilson.
BufordTJustice
07-02-16, 16:55
Why the switch?
I'm starting to pay attention to the cassette triggers now. I'm finding on the few I've tried that they are less tolerant to grit than my Geissele units. For whatever reason, the geometry of the Geissele triggers prevents any grit from affecting the feel of the trigger. I've had them coated in grit and fouling from hundreds of suppressed rounds and they still feel glassy smooth.
While i have only had a few opportunities to use cassette style triggers, i remain unimpressed. They have all been considerably grittier than my Geissele units.
I literally only put a dab of Geissele grease (Aeroshell 6) every several thousand rounds..... And not even because they need it.
Not a definitive analysis, but, coupled with the unmatched reliability of Geissele, I'm not switching.
The_Watcher
07-02-16, 19:19
I have the SD-E, I like the trigger a lot.
CanineCombatives
07-03-16, 21:45
The argument about long term hard use function is pretty moot now on these CMC triggers, once that was established it came down to feel for me, that 3.5-4.5 flat single stage is in my view the perfect AR trigger, I run it in everything, and the 2 stage 1-3lb is one of those that you just have to feel for yourself rather than listen to me bloviate about it.
http://www.cmctriggers.com/design/
The argument about long term hard use function is pretty moot now on these CMC triggers, once that was established it came down to feel for me, that 3.5-4.5 flat single stage is in my view the perfect AR trigger, I run it in everything, and the 2 stage 1-3lb is one of those that you just have to feel for yourself rather than listen to me bloviate about it.
http://www.cmctriggers.com/design/
My only complaint about the CMC's are on the 2 stage triggers. Their wall at the end of the 1st stage just isn't as "solid" as I'd like. I pulled through it on a couple of occasions on my varmint rig. Other than that I think they are a good trigger, I just really like the SD-E cause it's better in the area I just described.
With reliability though, I agree with you, they have been proven and there's documented cases of over 250k rounds on them. So I don't think reliability is an issue with them anyways.
CanineCombatives
07-04-16, 00:21
I wonder if you tried the 2-2 which I hated for the same reason, try the 1-3.
I wonder if you tried the 2-2 which I hated for the same reason, try the 1-3.
Yeah, I've only used their 2/2 in their 2 stage triggers. I might have to try the 1/3. Is it quite a bit more definitive at the end of the first stage? Also have you used a 2 stage Geissele and how much closer to that "feel" is the 1/3?
BufordTJustice
07-04-16, 12:49
The argument about long term hard use function is pretty moot now on these CMC triggers, once that was established it came down to feel for me, that 3.5-4.5 flat single stage is in my view the perfect AR trigger, I run it in everything, and the 2 stage 1-3lb is one of those that you just have to feel for yourself rather than listen to me bloviate about it.
http://www.cmctriggers.com/design/
Until they're NAVSEC Crane certified, like Geissele, that marketing page doesn't prove anything.
I'm sure they're quality triggers. But they're not PROVEN like Geissele. That's not up for debate.
Until they're NAVSEC Crane certified, like Geissele, that marketing page doesn't prove anything.
I'm sure they're quality triggers. But they're not PROVEN like Geissele. That's not up for debate.
I'm not starting an argument at all, I just don't have any idea how all those Crane tests come about and all the military test type stuff works for sure, but has any military branch or whatever tested the CMC out, or is it automatically not in the race due to it not being a mil-spec type trigger? I guess what I'm getting at is if it isn't given a shot how can it become proven? Again I'm sure there's guidelines with that stuff and it may not fall into the "specs", that's why I'm asking.
BufordTJustice
07-04-16, 23:41
I'm not starting an argument at all, I just don't have any idea how all those Crane tests come about and all the military test type stuff works for sure, but has any military branch or whatever tested the CMC out, or is it automatically not in the race due to it not being a mil-spec type trigger? I guess what I'm getting at is if it isn't given a shot how can it become proven? Again I'm sure there's guidelines with that stuff and it may not fall into the "specs", that's why I'm asking.
Crane torture tested the Geissele and then, upon it passing their tests, it was officially deployed with SOCOM units in the field. This was nearly a decade ago.
I'm only saying that no other company has a track record like that for their triggers. Nobody.
I'm sure CMC triggers are good quality. But there's no proof that they're the equal of Geissele.... And that may not even be CMC's fault. But it is what it is.
Geissele triggers stand alone on a proven track record of being used by our war fighters.
Crane torture tested the Geissele and then, upon it passing their tests, it was officially deployed with SOCOM units in the field. This was nearly a decade ago.
I'm only saying that no other company has a track record like that for their triggers. Nobody.
I'm sure CMC triggers are good quality. But there's no proof that they're the equal of Geissele.... And that may not even be CMC's fault. But it is what it is.
Geissele triggers stand alone on a proven track record of being used by our war fighters.
I'm with ya now. You cleared up what I was wondering. I'm sure there's plenty of politics involved in alot of that testing of equipment. I know my experience has me favoring the SD-E over the 2/2 CMC, even though the CMC is a smooth crisp trigger it's just "different". Thanks for the clarification Sir!
BufordTJustice
07-05-16, 13:32
I'm with ya now. You cleared up what I was wondering. I'm sure there's plenty of politics involved in alot of that testing of equipment. I know my experience has me favoring the SD-E over the 2/2 CMC, even though the CMC is a smooth crisp trigger it's just "different". Thanks for the clarification Sir!
No politics in the selection of Geissele. SOCOM wanted the best trigger the their uses, period. With unfailing reliability.
They got it. Bill Geissele has a few videos on YouTube where he speaks in depth on the SOCOM selection and fulfillment.
No politics in the selection of Geissele. SOCOM wanted the best trigger the their uses, period. With unfailing reliability.
They got it. Bill Geissele has a few videos on YouTube where he speaks in depth on the SOCOM selection and fulfillment.
I'll look those up. Thanks.
BufordTJustice
07-05-16, 15:40
SSA Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTHUqjxLqns
SSA Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p5eWOwRzDI
SSA Part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY5ns6FM0ME
HSNM Parts 1-4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X810NhGBxCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGBL2vDf80c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FII-kMwX-94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4pvLEX7Xw
More trigger info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhc
There are plenty of quality triggers on the market. Bill was making (and delivering to the warfighter) quality triggers that are proven to be more reliable than an in-spec milspec trigger for over a decade.
SSA Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTHUqjxLqns
SSA Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p5eWOwRzDI
SSA Part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY5ns6FM0ME
HSNM Parts 1-4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X810NhGBxCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGBL2vDf80c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FII-kMwX-94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j4pvLEX7Xw
More trigger info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhc
There are plenty of quality triggers on the market. Bill was making (and delivering to the warfighter) quality triggers that are proven to be more reliable than an in-spec milspec trigger for over a decade.
Thank you Sir! I appreciate the links. I am in the middle of the last linked video as I type this. Kinda interesting how Geissele was picked for AMU rifles. It was literally kinda "luck", being partnered with who he was. Definitely no politics involved from what I'm hearing. Anyways, thanks again.
Not to complicate things but Geissele is releasing a new trigger in the near future called the SSP. I forget what it stands for but I'm sure there is the word "Super" in there. I'm running two of them right now and I think there is a very small handful of guys out there that are testing them as well. Because I don't know what I can or cannot say about the trigger, there is a video floating out there from SHOT 2016 that has some info about it.
There is a distinct cosmetic characteristic that allows folks to know if it is a SSP.
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p320x320/13599891_863112637166347_2887023706816096505_n.jpg?oh=128d9dc08647773131bb68dcef333f6b&oe=57EA82EF
Not to complicate things but Geissele is releasing a new trigger in the near future called the SSP. I forget what it stands for but I'm sure there is the word "Super" in there. I'm running two of them right now and I think there is a very small handful of guys out there that are testing them as well. Because I don't know what I can or cannot say about the trigger, there is a video floating out there from SHOT 2016 that has some info about it.
There is a distinct cosmetic characteristic that allows folks to know if it is a SSP.
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p320x320/13599891_863112637166347_2887023706816096505_n.jpg?oh=128d9dc08647773131bb68dcef333f6b&oe=57EA82EF
Found an article describing it as shorter reset than S3G (holy shit) and also 3.5lbs but a true, crisp single stage vs the S3G's rolling break.
Maybe this will be the "do it all" trigger I've been looking for instead of the SSA-E I just bought. Will have to see how hard it is to avoid doubles though.
I prefer a two-stage trigger and run SSA in most of my rifles. I'm just running the SSP b/c Bill asked me to put it to through its paces and give feedback. What I will say is that the SSP is a fast trigger and I can run it slightly faster than a S3G.
I prefer a two-stage trigger and run SSA in most of my rifles. I'm just running the SSP b/c Bill asked me to put it to through its paces and give feedback. What I will say is that the SSP is a fast trigger and I can run it slightly faster than a S3G.
Do you know, by chance, if they plan on releasing it with heavier spring options to increase the pull weight like they did with the S3G/SD3G?
Not sure but I'll put a bug in his ear about it.
phaseshift
12-27-16, 18:33
I know this thread is old but wow I didn't expect it to get to 8 pages! Anyway if you guys were wondering I never pulled the trigger on the SD-C, however, my current SSA-E will be going on my next precision build. I'll be dropping the SD-C in my KAC SR15
Too bad you missed out on the BF and Christmas sales. Keep your eyes peeled. Holiday pricing still seems to be kicking quite a few places.
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