View Full Version : Which Piston Conversion System?
No Bananas
08-26-08, 13:58
If you had to get a piston conversion system for your AR upper, what would it be? Remember it has to be a conversion system, so LWRC, POF & HK are out ;).Don't forget to explain your preferance in a post.
*I understand that there are many out there who don't favor piston systems or just plain detest them. I respect your opinion (I don't have a piston or plan on getting one....at leat not now. I'm researching), but please don't blast or flame this poll. Thanks.
No Bananas
08-26-08, 15:42
I see we have 2 votes for "other" conversion units. What "others" do you prefer?
Seth Harness
08-26-08, 16:50
LWRC will convert your gun for you.
Kurts custom guns has one to, from what I hear.
I know theres more... Brain, not , working...
No Bananas
08-26-08, 17:28
OK..why wouldn't you specify which one if you voted other?
ADC is the way to go. Not a conversion though, but it would be money well spent in my opinion.
Seth Harness
08-26-08, 17:36
OK..why wouldn't you specify which one if you voted other?
I didnt vote other... I just threw a couple names out there that could be labled as other. Just trying to help.
Why is LWRC out?
I am really excited about the ADC piston and can't wait to get one. I wish I could get one over here and run its' dick in the dirt.
No Bananas
08-26-08, 18:34
I didnt vote other... I just threw a couple names out there that could be labled as other. Just trying to help.
Why is LWRC out?
I wasn't pointing that at you. Thanks for naming some others I wasn't aware of. I didn't know Kurt was in the market. I'm more interested in seeing what folks think of the conversions that are out there. I didn't know that LWRC would convert an upper for you.
So, does ADC make a conversion kit or convert an upper you send in or is it not applicable here?
I am really excited about the ADC piston and can't wait to get one. I wish I could get one over here and run its' dick in the dirt.
The first batch is being prepared now. I would get on the list for the second batch with the BCO barrels
Robb Jensen
08-26-08, 20:03
Of the two conversion systems I've tested (Ares and PWS (www.primaryweapons.com)) I'd highly recommend the PWS over the Ares. My statistical test is only one of each design. I broke the Ares in about 550 rounds of full auto.
I do recommend the PWS but I highly recommend having the gas block taper pinned. I have over 2K trouble free rounds through mine. Even when I shot the carrier key and gas block lose the gun continued to function. After applying red loc-tite to the carrier key and screws and torquing to 60in lbs the key hasn't come lose. I taper pinned the gas block myself and it too hasn't shot lose.
Mark,
I am on the list already. Just don't know if it's the "A" or "B" list? :D
The first batch is being prepared now. I would get on the list for the second batch with the BCO barrels
QuickStrike
08-27-08, 05:53
The first batch is being prepared now. I would get on the list for the second batch with the BCO barrels
What's BCO? :confused:
Robb Jensen
08-27-08, 05:58
What's BCO? :confused:
I think he meant BCM which is Bravo Company Manufacturing.
Mark,
I am on the list already. Just don't know if it's the "A" or "B" list? :D
Is that what I think it is--
SPEARHEAD! SPEED, MOBILITY AND FIREPOWER BABY!
Militarysignatures.com still has a problem with those who served in 2 branches. So I can't mix and match all of my Army and Coast Guard stuff. I was in 3AD back in the day 87-90, B CO. 1/36 INF.
Is that what I think it is--
SPEARHEAD! SPEED, MOBILITY AND FIREPOWER BABY!
henderson defense will have our own special TAPER PINNED version of the PWS very soon.
oh, and in case you couldnt tell, thats a vote for pws.
Militarysignatures.com still has a problem with those who served in 2 branches. So I can't mix and match all of my Army and Coast Guard stuff. I was in 3AD back in the day 87-90, B CO. 1/36 INF.
86-89 6th Plt/503rd MPCO Drake Kaserne.
I haven't seen the PWS, but based on Robb's approval, it sound good for the conversion standpoint.
I still would go for the ADC since it's not a "conversion"
My .02
THREAD HIJACK- Mark, part of Drake Kaserne is now being used by the Bundes Polizei. I spent 3 yrs. 4 months in Friedberg. I ran into a guy here who was in Bad Toelz with 10th SFG (A) and was there when I went down there for training in November '89.
86-89 6th Plt/503rd MPCO Drake Kaserne.
I haven't seen the PWS, but based on Robb's approval, it sound good for the conversion standpoint.
I still would go for the ADC since it's not a "conversion"
My .02
henderson defense will have our own special TAPER PINNED version of the PWS very soon.
oh, and in case you couldnt tell, thats a vote for pws.
How's the pinned version going, i've got an itch to get a piston gun built.
No Bananas
08-28-08, 11:46
Anybody try the Adams Arms Piston Conversion? I'm curious about that one.
I do not own a piston system but I am looking to get one in the near future. If it were me Im leaning twords the Adams Arms system. Unlike the PWS system it is user installed I do not have to send my upper to a certified installer to drill out my gas port and install the system I can also use any ar barrel with the propper FSB diamiter and as far as I undersatnd it with the Admas kit I can transfer from a carbine to a mid to a rifle system only by changing the drive rod. Let me know if any of my info is incorrect, im basing my desision on these facts.
No Bananas
09-13-08, 09:16
I see the PWS system is rather popular. The op-rod/piston rod (or whatever it is called) looks a bit thin. Is it really made to withstand constant use without bending or breaking?
Robb Jensen
09-23-08, 20:58
Anybody try the Adams Arms Piston Conversion? I'm curious about that one.
The system looks good at first glance. The gas block is not pinned, I'm suspect of that immediately. I asked them for a T&E model using one of my barrels and one of my uppers, they refused (don't know why but that makes me even more suspicious)...............So you spend your money, you takes your chances. :(
FWIW I've had 3 generations of the PWS on my Colt. I've had 3 problems and I fixed two of them myself. The 3rd one required it to go back to PWS. All three times with each problem the gun functioned 100%, in 2500 rounds thus far this rifle has had 1 stoppage which turned out to be one of the early recalled PMAGs. PWS customer support is excellent and they've worked with me everytime I've needed them.
Problems and how they were fixed:
1st generation ran 100% but it was hard to remove the cap on the front end of the gas block to remove the piston. After SHOT show this year they upgraded the system to the 2nd gen version (1st gen had two taper pins holding the gas block to the barrel).
1st problem: After getting the upgrade to the 2nd gen gas block the gas block shot loose (the set screws are in the grooves of the original Colt taper pins) the gas block moved a little side to side but the gun kept running. (2nd gen systems have to large set screws attaching the gas block to the barrel). I fixed this by removing the front set screw and drilling and reaming the gas block for a single taper pin.
2nd problem: Also after getting the upgrade to the 2nd gen system after the gas block coming loose the carrier key came loose. They had forgotten to loc-tite down the carrier key. I fixed this using red loc-tite and torquing the screws to 55in lbs. Gun ran even with the carrier key loose, I noticed it was loose when inspecting the internals of the rifle. I felt it move slightly when testing for tightness.
3rd problem: The op rod came loose at the carrier key. Also discovered while I was inspecting for wear/tightness etc. I returned the entire upper to PWS in less than 2 weeks they replaced everything in their system except for the gas block. Immediately I noticed that everything fit together better than, it could also be disassembled more easily by hand. I immediately noticed that they had taken my recommendation on the carrier key screws and done some staking, not the conventional way but they had milled a track/trough between the carrier key heads so that each screw head is staked toward the center of the key to help the screws from spinning/loosening.
CMMG makes a piston conversion kit, too.
That's all I know,
Ben
Seth Harness
09-24-08, 06:32
CMMG makes a piston conversion kit, too.
That's all I know,
Ben
I know for sure they have an upper, are you sure on the conversion kit??
eightmillimeter
09-24-08, 08:17
I know for sure they have an upper, are you sure on the conversion kit??
The conversion kit is sold on their web site in the new products section, Brownells sells their conversion kit too.
I would like more information on their kit as well.
OldNavyGuy
09-24-08, 10:20
I'd like an LWRC.
i like them too..,i only have 6 of them as of today :D
ADC is the way to go. Not a conversion though, but it would be money well spent in my opinion.
What he said... The best one I've seen...
B
What he said... The best one I've seen...
B
does anyone actually OWN one of these??? how can you make this recommendation?
:confused:
does anyone actually OWN one of these???
I know that Mark5pt56 purchased one of the evaluation uppers directly from the inventor...
how can you make this recommendation? :confused:
Because I have fired two different barrel length prototypes and have had the opportunity to disassemble them in the field whilst having a discussion with the man who made them about what makes them tick…
If you are looking for a drop in piston upper for your AR; the ADC will be hard to beat… We all know the HK416s are great, but they are quite pricey for what they are…
Just my .02
B
I know that Mark5pt56 purchased one of the evaluation uppers directly from the inventor...
Because I have fired two different barrel length prototypes and have had the opportunity to disassemble them in the field whilst having a discussion with the man who made them about what makes them tick…
If you are looking for a drop in piston upper for your AR; the ADC will be hard to beat… We all know the HK416s are great, but they are quite pricey for what they are…
Just my .02
B
i dont know, i guess i put more weight on opinions based on rounds downrange, and ownership experience.
i dont know, i guess i put more weight on opinions based on rounds downrange, and ownership experience.
OK... You may want to give this a read...
LINK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15229&highlight=piston)
B
OK... You may want to give this a read...
LINK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15229&highlight=piston)
B
This thread sounds very promising for the ADC system but it also reads like a very long advertisement. I have trouble getting past the $1300.00 price tag. I can't see spending that kind of money for the system.
I've been following the piston thing for some time now with hopes of buying one.
This thread sounds very promising for the ADC system but it also reads like a very long advertisement.
Well that is likely due to the belief by the writer of the review that the ADC piston system, for what it is, is one of the best ones (soon to be) available. A belief that I happen to share, but you can make your own decisions…
I have trouble getting past the $1300.00 price tag. I can't see spending that kind of money for the system.
Again that is a personal choice… Is there a complete AR piston upper that you feel comfortable betting your life on for less??? If so, I have never heard of it…
I've been following the piston thing for some time now with hopes of buying one.
Piston ARs are more than just a novelty, they serve a real purpose… They really shine in both SBRs and machineguns; However, if you are not using a short barrel, or firing in full auto, I would just stick with a quality DI gun, as you will not likely see any real benefit…
Just my .02
B
OK... You may want to give this a read...
LINK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15229&highlight=piston)
B
Ya, ive read it. Everyone has. Its stickied to the top of this forum, which hardly seems fair to other AAR's regarding other piston systems available on the market.
And it is ONE data point, and a very limited one at that.
There are other piston systems currently on the market with literally 100's of thousands of trouble free rounds downrange.....specifically that i personally know of, a PWS rental machine gun with 13,000 FULL AUTO ONLY rounds downrange.
I am not saying that the ADC system isnt good. In fact, it very well could be the best system out there. but neither you, nor Mark know that. That information will be forthcoming with TIME in the hands of the end users. Not one data point.
Anybody try the Adams Arms Piston Conversion? I'm curious about that one.
Hi everyone, first post here. Have been lurking for awhile now.
Just wanted to say I bought a AA conversion kit and will be taking it out for the first time next week on a desert camping/shooting trip.
I looked at the different systems out there. The main reason I got it over the other is I liked the install it yourself idea. Sending my upper off to someone to do the things I can do didn't appeal to me. I realize not everyone has the skill or tooling to install something like the PWS system but for people like me (machinist and mechanic) it is a big turn off to have someone else do the work no matter how qualified they are.
I have read the reviews on the AA system and they seemed good so far.
I decided to play guinea pig and get one. My reason for switching to a piston is that I want something that runs when it is dirty. I never have a problem with my ARs as long as they are clean and lubed but my last shooting trip in the desert was windy and dusty. All 3 of the ARs I took out there became covered in fine dust and dirt which naturally mixed with the lube creating a mess that eventually stopped all 3 from functioning 100%.
It's also fun to get a new toy too. ;)
I don't use my firearms professorially so they are for fun and my main hobby. I can't own a SBR or can here in the peoples socialist paradise of kalifornia. But I don't baby them as they get scratched up and dirty and I rarely clean them. Mainly I use wolf ammo with surplus from my ammo stash in my ARs . I hate cleaning them so if the piston works as advertised then I will be happy.
The install was pretty straight forward except for my choice of forearm. I used a DD lite 12.0fsp. Ran into a clearance issue with the rail even though AA states they work. Could be an issue of an early rail that had changes madeat a later date as it still had patent pending printed on it. AA was quick to respond to my email about the issue and they wanted me to call to discuss it but I have yet to call them since I work 12 hour nights shifts and it makes calling a hassle as I have to loose sleep. So I won't blame them for that issue. I solved the problem and it all fits fine now. Will the clamp on gas block be an issue? Can't say yet but if it is I will let everyone know. Is carrier a tilt an issue as well? I will find out. If it is I already have a fix for it planned out.
I will keep everyone posted after next weekends trip.
Seth Harness
09-28-08, 07:24
Is carrier a tilt an issue as well? I will find out. If it is I already have a fix for it planned out.
Welcome to M4C.
Carrier tilt is an issue in the adams systems. As we speak, Im sending one of my anti tilt buffers to a guy who has a couple of these kits running. He says the tilt in the this system is very evident. Im guessing along the same lines as the Ares/Bushmaster kits and POF.
Welcome to M4C.
Carrier tilt is an issue in the adams systems. As we speak, Im sending one of my anti tilt buffers to a guy who has a couple of these kits running. He says the tilt in the this system is very evident. Im guessing along the same lines as the Ares/Bushmaster kits and POF.
Thanks.
I figured it could be a problem but so far no one has admitted to it from what I have found. They did come out with a carrier of their own and from the few pics they show of it it appears they have added some extra material to support the back of the carrier.
If it is an issue with my setup I have something planned but it will require a permanent mod to the bolt carrier. Will my fix work? I won't know until I try it. I have had a few ideas that were crap and didn't work out but for me that is half the fun of a project. For everything I make and whether it works or not I always learn something from it.
I will post some pics of it after I put some rounds through it.
Seth Harness
09-28-08, 13:08
They did come out with a carrier of their own and from the few pics they show of it it appears they have added some extra material to support the back of the carrier.
I dont have any experience with the Adams system directly, I've just spoke with someone who has them and he said tilt was an issue. Did they address the issue with a GenII model, maybe ??
If you wouldnt mind could you post those pics?? Im curious.
Seth Harness
09-28-08, 13:21
Nevermind, just saw some pics on TOS. You are currect its said in the verbage that they are machining "skies" on the bottum back of their carriers. looks like only a few of them from each batch made are available to the masses until they get the demand issue figured out. The rest are going to Mil/LE first.
No Bananas
09-28-08, 16:30
How come I never hear anybody mention POF-USA anymore when it comes to piston guns? I've heard their customer service isn't all that great but what about their operating system. Work well? Tilt issues? Other issues?
I finally got a chance to try out my AA piston kit.
Sadly not a very conclusive test as saturday we had about 35 mph cross winds where we were camped out. I put 300 rounds through this upper. On the first mag I had plenty of malfunctions that seemed like short stroking. Fired case would eject but would not pick up a fresh round.
I had assembled the upper completely bone dry and it apparently it didn't like that. I added a few drops of CLP to the bolt carrier/bolt and it worked 100% after that.
Due to the winds I have no idea of how good or bad accuracy will be. Just sighting in the ACOG was a chore to try and get it on paper between gusts.
After lubing it and then getting it on paper I put 5 mags through fairly quick.
I need to hit the local range when I have time to get a better zero and see if it is at least as accurate with the piston as it was before. I don't plan on cleaning it.
I had no problem with the gas block moving around but then again it was only 300 rds. I wanted to put more rounds through ti but it was senseless with the wind blowing that bad. Sunday we went on a 5 mile hike then I helped the others in the group get their rifles working (several new builds with teething problems) and sighted in so I didn't do much more shooting.
The buffer tube only has 2 light marks on it so far. Not worn into the anodizing but it polished it up or maybe removed the dry lube it had on it.
Quick run down on the major parts:
Armalite 16 inch mid length barrel
CMT M16 carrier
Vltor mur receiver
DD lite rail
AA piston kit
Bushmaster lower with emod stock and LMT stock/buffer/spring
Geissele hi speed trigger
TA11F ACOG
I will post some updates after putting more rounds through it.
Before the trip
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02938.jpg
Here are some after the trip pics
buffer area, lmt buffer tube
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02960.jpg
bolt with lube and sand/dust stuck to it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02961.jpg
inside of vltor mur upper
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02962.jpg
barrel extension with lube and sand/dust stuck to it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02963.jpg
gas adjuster assembly
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02964.jpg
carrier end of piston
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02966.jpg
dusty rifle, don't mind the shoe as it was the only thing handy to prop it up. ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02968.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/chuck1/DSC02970.jpg
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