View Full Version : Ford: 2019 Ranger & 2020 Bronco . . .
Moose-Knuckle
05-17-16, 03:26
Not a Ford guy but these two were very popular and my best friend in high school and I would ramble about the country side in his Bronco.
2019 Ford Ranger: Yes, It's Returning!
The Ranger will also spawn a new Ford Bronco SUV, which will offer some competition to the Jeep Wrangler. Broncos should arrive in 2020 with a starting price of $30,000.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/2019-ford-ranger-yes-returning-174600040.html
Eurodriver
05-17-16, 06:09
Diesel? I like. $30k for a Bronco? I like that too.
2020? That sucks hard.
Thanks for posting.
Ford has been threatening to bring back the Ranger for years but unless Toyota quits making Tacomas it probably isn't going to happen.
If Ford brings the "World Ranger" to the U.S., the Tacoma should watch out.
Quite frankly, Toyota better step its game up, with the new Colorado/Canyon, the possibility of the World Ranger coming. The Tacomas spaghetti like frame, and drum brakes, just might not cut it for 38k anymore.
They need to finally scrap the Tacoma and bring on the Hilux.
If Ford brings the "World Ranger" to the U.S., the Tacoma should watch out.
Quite frankly, Toyota better step its game up, with the new Colorado/Canyon, the possibility of the World Ranger coming. The Tacomas spaghetti like frame, and drum brakes, just might not cut it for 38k anymore.
They need to finally scrap the Tacoma and bring on the Hilux.
^^^ This. I have had Toyota trucks since the early 80's... My newest is a 2nd gen Tacoma, which I affectionately call " the rolling recall".
Would love to see the ranger back, Toyota has had this market for far too long.
Maybe 15 years ago I had a BRONCO II. Bought it from some old guy who worked with my dad. He was the original owner and it had under a 100k miles. I think I paid something like $800. Drove it for 2 years and sold it for $700. Wouldn't mind some kind of a small SUV again.
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In for both. But damn that's far away.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
05-17-16, 07:52
Is there an official concept for the bronco? I love jeep designs but I hate their reliability.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-17-16, 07:54
In for both. But damn that's far away.
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I don't know if it's just me, but I hold onto cars a lot longer than I used to. Four years is a pretty good amount of time to plan ahead. If you have a car on the last legs, swap it out now and you can get the second your production and not take a bath on the car you by now. I have a two-year-old car right now, so this would be about the perfect refresh cycle for me.
I have so much other crap going on and actually drive my own car so little, that I actually don't look forward to having to try to find new vehicles.
Outlander Systems
05-17-16, 08:24
I had a '94 Ranger that absolutely, positively, would not die. Survived two wrecks, and was rolled over in a ditch. Never did anything but brakes and oil changes, and passed 200,000k before I sold it for $500.
A light, mini-truck, with AWD and a Diesel engine would be bad as ****.
Ranger Raptor:
http://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/imagegen/max/658/-/s3/digital-cougar-assets/wheels/2016/03/21/60968/Ford-Ranger-Raptor-front-side.jpg
http://www.ford-trucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Ranger-Raptor.jpg
If Ford brings the "World Ranger" to the U.S., the Tacoma should watch out.
Quite frankly, Toyota better step its game up, with the new Colorado/Canyon, the possibility of the World Ranger coming. The Tacomas spaghetti like frame, and drum brakes, just might not cut it for 38k anymore.
They need to finally scrap the Tacoma and bring on the Hilux.
Agree 100%. I figured that Ford ceasing operations in Australia killed off any chance for a new Ranger but glad to see they're not quitting. (Now if only they'd bring the damn Falcon stateside.)
Is there an official concept for the bronco? I love jeep designs but I hate their reliability.
You're probably hoping for something like this (so am I) :
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160517/4e2f943bf93148f7a34867acd044ac9c.jpg
What we probably will get is this:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160517/8a1fc7b3afba969bdc2e8e6d47963248.jpg
That is the Ford Everest currently on sale in everywhere in the world but 'Merica...
I already have two broncos, an '89 and a '93.
For some time I had an '81, sold it not long after getting the '89.
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brickboy240
05-17-16, 10:31
What killed it for the Ranger first time around was the fact that Ford did not bring out a Ranger with 4 real doors while everyone else did just that. You had Tacomas, Frontiers and the Colorado/Canyons all with 4 real doors and a real-sized back seat. Then there was the Ranger with those dinky half back doors and no back seat. Ford never really improved on the Ranger and sales plummeted.
If the Bronco was more like a 2 door Expedition, it might sell, but the Expedition is in real need of a make-over. Nobody really buys Expeditions anymore and I see tons more Tahoes and Sequoias than Expeditions. The design is long in the tooth.
I had a '94 Ranger that absolutely, positively, would not die. Survived two wrecks, and was rolled over in a ditch. Never did anything but brakes and oil changes, and passed 200,000k before I sold it for $500.
A light, mini-truck, with AWD and a Diesel engine would be bad as ****.
Ranger Raptor:
I believe that 94 ranger was a mitsu, no?
1+ to the lack of a real second set of doors. Had one of the regular cab Rangers and loved it. Was looking to upgrade to a larger cabin and would have loved to stay with the Ranger, but alas it didn't happen. Ended up going a different route.
I'd love to see a Ranger and Bronco back in the mix. The Bronco I'd love to see a retro design that goes back to the 72 style, kind of like how the Mustang went retro. However, I seriously doubt I'll be buying one. No effing way I'm paying $30k+ for bloody truck. Love the looks and feel old the Colorado/Canyon but at the prices dealers want for them they can keep them.
Outlander Systems
05-17-16, 10:59
The Mazdas were re-badged Fords. Like the "Mazda" Navajo.
I believe that 94 ranger was a mitsu, no?
I don't know if it's just me, but I hold onto cars a lot longer than I used to. Four years is a pretty good amount of time to plan ahead.
You're probably right. My current car will last that long and it's my wife's turn for a car next anyway. But I don't usually buy new, so 4 years is really 6.
Agree 100%. I figured that Ford ceasing operations in Australia killed off any chance for a new Ranger but glad to see they're not quitting. (Now if only they'd bring the damn Falcon stateside.)
You're probably hoping for something like this (so am I) :
What we probably will get is this:
That is the Ford Everest currently on sale in everywhere in the world but 'Merica...
Obviously I would prefer the former, but I'll take an Everest all day too.
I watch a lot of car videos online. Even ones from other countries. I think the Ranger is very highly regarded in Australia as a good off road truck.
My wife had a 96 Ranger V6 manual when we got married. Ended up trading it in on a Mustang. It was a great little truck and we shouldn't have traded it in.
You're probably hoping for something like this (so am I) :
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160517/4e2f943bf93148f7a34867acd044ac9c.jpg
Cool. OJ is eligable for parole in 2017, so maybe we'll see The Great Escape Part 2.
brickboy240
05-17-16, 11:43
The problem with the Tacoma, Colorado, Frontier and this Ranger is that they are not tons cheaper than a full size truck, nor do they really get that much better mileage. Many also have punky V6s that do not have the grunt of the V8s offered in the full size trucks. Ditto for bed space. can't pull much with most of them, either.
So in the end, I'd rather have a full sized truck.
I will believe it when I see it. I want to be excited for the new competition but Ford has dropped hints like this before including a previous magazine confirmation for the US Market but nothing showed. Ford knows they have a big hill to climb in the mid-size truck market. The GM Twins have been very successful for GM and have taken sales away from the full-size trucks, oops. Then there is the Tacoma, it still owns that market and the aftermarket.
The original Ranger died for a couple of reasons including not offering a crew cab, but wait, they did. It was the Explorer SportTrac... and it sold well for Ford. They bailed on the compact/mid-size market because they wanted to push the F-150 more. Same reason Dodge let the Dakota finally and mercifully die off. The current global Ranger is about 90% of the size of the current F-150. Not a huge difference. The new one will have to be smaller and less expensive. Ford would rather put smaller engines in the F-150 to keep sales numbers, as evidenced by the 2.7L EcoBoost V-6 now offered.
brickboy240
05-17-16, 11:51
I know a few people that have Eco Boost F-150s and they do NOT get the gas mileage that Ford says they do.
I also question the life span of that twin turbo engine versus a normally aspirated V8.
That motor might do well in a truck like the Ranger but in a full size 4wd truck with some decent sized off road tires....the little motor is huffing and puffing.
If you get a full size truck...get a V8. I can attest that the 5.3 GM V8 gets pretty damn good mileage for a full size V8 pickup.
All I have to say is ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME!!!! I have been waiting for the new bronco since the hoax was published some time ago. I've been holding on to my Honda Pilot in anticipation for its release and I'll definitely be getting one.
I have a 2002 Ranger Edge 4x4 4.0 and I'll be keeping it. The new Bronco will look great in the garage next to the 2018 GT500 which I already have plans for. We are definitely living in the golden age of the automobile gentlemen.
The Mazdas were re-badged Fords. Like the "Mazda" Navajo.
Mazda...that's what I meant, not mitsu.
What I meant was that ranger was ALSO a Mazda. Although that's obviously not what I actually wrote.
brickboy240
05-17-16, 12:04
If I was going to go the small pickup route...I'd wait for the Duramax diesel Colorado or Canyon.
Agree 100%. I figured that Ford ceasing operations in Australia killed off any chance for a new Ranger but glad to see they're not quitting. (Now if only they'd bring the damn Falcon stateside.)
You're probably hoping for something like this (so am I) :
What we probably will get is this:
That is the Ford Everest currently on sale in everywhere in the world but 'Merica...
I just read that the New Ranger and Bronco will share the same platform and you may be correct about the Bronco looking more like the Everest vs the rendition above it. I really hope that isn't the case as it just looks too blah and another mold of the new Pilot and Pathfinder which I really don't care for.
Ford needs to think outside the box with this one and keep it more to the gen 1 retro vs the new minivan/suv design that seems to be so popular. Putting the Coyote in it as well as a removable roof would be a huge win!
The problem with the Tacoma, Colorado, Frontier and this Ranger is that they are not tons cheaper than a full size truck, nor do they really get that much better mileage. Many also have punky V6s that do not have the grunt of the V8s offered in the full size trucks. Ditto for bed space. can't pull much with most of them, either.
So in the end, I'd rather have a full sized truck.
Cool. In the end, other people don't want a tank.
Eurodriver
05-17-16, 16:20
Cool. In the end, other people don't want a tank.
Exactly. This point is missed 9 times out of 5 by the types that drive lifted full size trucks.
...that they always tend to be shorter than me is always a curiosity factor too. :confused:
.46caliber
05-17-16, 17:07
If I was going to go the small pickup route...I'd wait for the Duramax diesel Colorado or Canyon.
What wait? Aren't they out?
.46caliber
05-17-16, 17:13
Exactly. This point is missed 9 times out of 5 by the types that drive lifted full size trucks.
...that they always tend to be shorter than me is always a curiosity factor too. :confused:
Mid trucks have their place, but the market is definitely smaller. The bed size and towing capacities of the full size models appeal to a broader range.
What I don't get is the type that buys a truck as their office commuter. If you won't tow, load the bed or use the 4x4, why buy a truck?
Eurodriver
05-17-16, 17:20
Mid trucks have their place, but the market is definitely smaller. The bed size and towing capacities of the full size models appeal to a broader range.
What I don't get is the type that buys a truck as their office commuter. If you won't tow, load the bed or use the 4x4, why buy a truck?
Good point. I don't tow anymore and never need to put anything in the bed, but 4x4 is a necessity on hunting trips. This, and the fact that I think full size trucks are insanely large, is why I would much rather have a Taco than an F150.
On the other hand, as an American, "because I can" would be a sufficient answer if I ever asked your question to a CFA that had a brand new 4x4 TRD Tacoma in a city parking garage.
Mid trucks have their place, but the market is definitely smaller. The bed size and towing capacities of the full size models appeal to a broader range.
I drive a 2012 Nissan Frontier. Im an outdoorsman. I need a bed for my gear and dog box. I don't want my dogs in the interior (safety, and possible smell issues...see "skunks" for reference). I haul lumber, rock, soil, furniture with my pickup (have had 1k in the bed, verified by scale). I go down two tracks all the time in the mountains (aka narrow death trails). I drive around town, and use the 4wd.
My pickup can pull 6k lbs, is small enough to go where I need it to, gets low to mid 20's on the highway, and can fit four full size adults. Why do I need a full size pickup? Why not have the best of both worlds?
Most people don't even use a half of a fullsize pickups ability...or probably even half of the compact/midsize pickups abilities. Lets not even talk about the Bro-dozer diesel douches....
And honestly I think the latest Tacoma's are too large. The sweet spot was the 1995-2004 (of course their leaf springs are chit).
Outlander Systems
05-17-16, 17:46
There's two reasons I bought an F-150:
1) Coyote
2) The Ranger was discontinued.
If I had my druthers, I'd want the absolute lightest 4WD vehicle I could get my hands on, that had a bed. I'm not towing horse-trailers, or trying to pull down Stonehenge. While the extra payload is *nice*, if I could shrink my truck by about 1,000 lbs, I'd be in hog heaven.
https://youtu.be/-9HtySh2Ygk
I'd drive that ranger any day...mate.
.46caliber
05-17-16, 19:18
Good point. I don't tow anymore and never need to put anything in the bed, but 4x4 is a necessity on hunting trips. This, and the fact that I think full size trucks are insanely large, is why I would much rather have a Taco than an F150.
On the other hand, as an American, "because I can" would be a sufficient answer if I ever asked your question to a CFA that had a brand new 4x4 TRD Tacoma in a city parking garage.
I'm all for the "because I can" thought, just not every application of it rings with me. This is one of 'em.
Looks too much like the Tacoma. I actually kinda liked the squared-off look of the old Rangers. That sleek melded look ain't for me.
.46caliber
05-17-16, 19:27
Why do I need a full size pickup? Why not have the best of both worlds?
Most people don't even use a half of a fullsize pickups ability...or probably even half of the compact/midsize pickups abilities.
I get it and I'm not knocking the mid size trucks. All I'm saying is they're a smaller market than full size, even when you discard those that buy a truck just 'cause.
I get it and I'm not knocking the mid size trucks. All I'm saying is they're a smaller market than full size, even when you discard those that buy a truck just 'cause.
The cost difference factor used to be an incentive for buying a small/mid-sized truck over a full-sized one, but this was 20 years ago. These days the cost difference doesn't warrant it IMHO.
Full disclosure: I have a 2015 GMC Sierra Z71 1500 double-cab. Sooooo, there may be just a bit of bias towards the full-sized trucks. ;)
Y'all can keep your mid size trucks.
I'll be rockin a 2017 Raptor this fall and yes with a twin turbo V6 @>450HP and gobs of b@ll busting torque.
They can't start making them soon enough.
Eat my dust.......
Y'all can keep your mid size trucks.
I'll be rockin a 2017 Raptor this fall and yes with a twin turbo V6 @>450HP and gobs of b@ll busting torque.
They can't start making them soon enough.
Eat my dust.......
Supposedly with a new high-output Gen2 3.5 ecoboost and new 10 speed tranny.
I'm admittedly about to pull the trigger on a new F150 crew cab FX4. My current truck is a 2006 F150 and it's been a solid vehicle. When I started looking for a new truck, I looked at a Taco. But the fact that it costs as much as a well equipped full size, took the Tacoma out of the running for me. And yes, I use my truck. For a Ranger to return to its former glory, it's going to need to come in priced around $10k less than a full size pickup.
Ford already announced the 2nd Gen 3.5 Ecoboost. Lots of changes. One I really like is the addition of port fuel injection along with the direct injection. This solves the carbon build up on the intake manifold issues that plague the direct injection motors industry wide. They said the new motor make 365 HP and 450 TQ. They also beefed up the low end for the "high output" model that is going in the Raptor.
I have a few friends with 3.5 Ecoboost F150s. I think its a great motor. I believe it gets a bad rap from people who don't know how the whole turbocharged motor thing works. They get good gas mileage when you are no in boost. If you are spooling up those snails every chance you get then you are going to get shit mileage. My buddy has a new F150 and gets a legit 17-18 mpg mixed driving and in the low to mid 20s when on road trips on the highway. But he will tell you that on tanks where he is having some fun his mpg average drops under 15 with a quickness.
And that motor makes so much low-end torque it isn't even trying to move that truck down the road.
Moose-Knuckle
05-18-16, 02:26
Exactly. This point is missed 9 times out of 5 by the types that drive lifted full size trucks.
...that they always tend to be shorter than me is always a curiosity factor too. :confused:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7648/27019410081_723b8f62b1.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
05-18-16, 02:35
https://youtu.be/-9HtySh2Ygk
I'd drive that ranger any day...mate.
Damn, that is sweet . . . added embedded vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9HtySh2Ygk&feature=youtu.be
Outside of comparing base model trucks, a mid size is considerably cheaper than comparable full size trucks. The only time you can get the full size down to mid size price is when they are giving 10-12 grand off the full size truck.
My partner bought a 2015 4 door Taco TRD Off Road with navigation and a trailering package. In 2015 that was about top of the line. MSRP was like 36k and she paid 32k (plus tax etc.) Now the Taco TRD Off Road can have leather, a sun roof, terrain select, and wireless charging... all which jack up the price even more. MSRP for that is around 38k but you can get them for 35k.
You are not getting a 4 door F150 FX4 with leather, navigation, and a sun roof for 35k. Again unless you knock off 10 to 12 grand. My buddies new 2015 (might be a 16) F150 FX4 with leather, navigation, sun roof -bad ass one though-, and a few other little cool add ons, was 54k dollars.
Moose-Knuckle
05-18-16, 04:19
I miss the days of cloth covered bench seats and hand cranked windows in trucks. $30k, $40k, $50k + . . . :suicide:
Outlander Systems
05-18-16, 06:33
And single cabs.
I want a ****ing truck, not an SUV with a bed.
I miss the days of cloth covered bench seats and hand cranked windows in trucks. $30k, $40k, $50k + . . . :suicide:
I miss the days of cloth covered bench seats and hand cranked windows in trucks. $30k, $40k, $50k + . . . :suicide:
Yep. Offer top engine, 4wd, m/t, cloth, crank Windows.
Eurodriver
05-18-16, 06:50
Y'all can keep your mid size trucks.
I'll be rockin a 2017 Raptor this fall and yes with a twin turbo V6 @>450HP and gobs of b@ll busting torque.
They can't start making them soon enough.
Eat my dust.......
Base MSRP for that truck is $53k.
For the exact same MSRP you can be rolling around in one of these. :cool: Not even a contest!
http://static.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/images/Auto/custom/12985/2016_Mercedes-Benz_E-Class_1.jpg
Base MSRP for that truck is $53k.
For the exact same MSRP you can be rolling around in one of these. :cool: Not even a contest!
http://static.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/images/Auto/custom/12985/2016_Mercedes-Benz_E-Class_1.jpg
Wanna bet! I'll roll that little thing over and back up and do it again!
I always kinda liked the way the Ranger and Bronco looked. Will be nice to see the model name back out, I wonder how many will truly get built and sold.
If they flop, I won't mind that half from MSRP the year after.
brickboy240
05-18-16, 11:59
I have watched my wealthy relatives fool around with BMWs, Jaguars and Benzes. You can have them. Finicky cars with sky high parts pricing. No thank you.
Basically, you guys are saying that the Eco Boost F-150 is getting maybe 1-2mpg better mileage than my 5.3 GMC Sierra. BFD...I'd rather have no turbos to fool with. Besides, the newer F-150 is a hideous looking truck. Ford trucks in general are not very attractive.
If you love your Taco...great. Toyotas are very reliable. I owned a Tundra once. But the Taco's bed is just too small to carry my ATV or other larger things, so I cannot have one. The Taco also gets maybe 1-2mpg better mileage than a V8 Chevy/GMC but does not have nearly the acceleration.
But to some people the smaller size of the Taco or Colorado is wanted or needed over a full size truck.
If it wasn't for my camper trailer I'd be in a Taco or a 4Runner right now. The smaller size makes it easier to 4wheel with out here in the desert and to park here in town. The smaller bed isn't an issue for me. But the camper comes close to the Taco's max towing rating and I felt that buying a full size truck and towing at 50 percent of its rating was better than buying a Taco and towing at 90 percent of its rating.
Exactly. This point is missed 9 times out of 5 by the types that drive lifted full size trucks.
...that they always tend to be shorter than me is always a curiosity factor too. :confused:
Id agree with this generally, but being in redneck country, if it is sporadically covered in mud they get a pass.
People my age like to get on me for driving a muscle car. "You compensating for something?" No, but at 46,000 miles I'll soon put on the 4th set of new tires. And I've slowed down a bit.
Eurodriver
05-19-16, 06:42
I have watched my wealthy relatives fool around with BMWs, Jaguars and Benzes. You can have them. Finicky cars with sky high parts pricing. No thank you.
EuroCars usually have a 4yr/50,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty. Contrast that with 3yr/36,000 for domestic vehicles and a 5yr/60k for the powertrain only. The warranty helps, but I'll give you that parts are ridiculously expensive. As an example, a 2015 Ford F150 water pump is $105. A 2015 C350 water pump is $388. (I just looked ;) )
But European cars are just flat out solid. I have driven Audis and MB extensively and you can tell they are built to a higher standard than American vehicles. Period. Even in the high end Caddys you'll be able to spot the cheap interior plastics and get tons of wind/road noise in the comparative MB.
What one should enjoy about Eurocars most is their comfort. Even in a 10 year old Benz approaching 150k you'll still be able to drive along at 100mph and have people on the phone remark "You're in the car? I can't hear a thing." Try doing that in an F250.
So now its 2020?! This thing has been making waves since 2005, will we ever get a new Bronco?
If Ford brings the "World Ranger" to the U.S., the Tacoma should watch out.
Quite frankly, Toyota better step its game up, with the new Colorado/Canyon, the possibility of the World Ranger coming. The Tacomas spaghetti like frame, and drum brakes, just might not cut it for 38k anymore.
They need to finally scrap the Tacoma and bring on the Hilux.
What do you think the Hilux will do better that the Tacoma? That's all they sell in Mexico and the Mexicans come up here to buy hulled out Tacomas because the Hilux is just a smaller, stripped down, left-over parts thing.
brickboy240
05-19-16, 11:54
Eurodriver,
My other two cars are an 05 Volvo S-40 and an 02 Saab 9-5 Aero. I know all about European cars. I also owned wo 3 Series Bimmers.
With the Bimmers, the motors are solid but their electrical stuff is a nightmare. Apparently Lexus and Infiniti do better on electronics than do the Germans. The BMW parts were much more than most parts I buy for the Volvo or Saab. Many parts were also "dealer only" and that made them expensive and harder to get.
Yes, even our 2002 9-5 Aero is solid for a car with 100k miles and it's age. I don't see too many Imapalas or Tauruses its age that are even ON the road.
the full size pickup is one thing the US big makers do get right. The rest of their wares range from average to awful.
If you're in the market for a 50k truck, an mb sedan prolly isn't going to scratch the itch.
If I didn't keep cars past warranty, maybe I would buy German but keeping cars longer, yeah I'll pass.
I'll take wind noise over astronomical parts costs and electrical gremlins all day.
ETA: says the guy with a jeep with electrical probs and wind noise.
MountainRaven
05-19-16, 13:14
I miss the days of cloth covered bench seats and hand cranked windows in trucks. $30k, $40k, $50k + . . . :suicide:
What the market needs is a simple, easy to work on, lightweight 4x4.
brickboy240
05-19-16, 14:20
We keep cars way past warranties. Many times 10-12 years and up to 300k miles. We work four ourselves...not the auto finance industry. I don't want a car note all the time, sorry.
If you take care of them and do much of the work yourself, you'd be amazed at how far and long they will go before major troubles set in.
However, I very much appreciate the people that buy news cars every couple of years. You all provide us with very nice, cheaper cars and trucks that we can buy for less and drive for a very long time. Without you...we'd have to suck it up and buy new cars and take the depreciation hits as well. LOL
39544
This is what the Bronco will most likely look like, and if so hell yeah.
I love my 2010 F150. I have pics of it in other threads.
I have quite a few reasons why I choose F150 over other full sized trucks. Higher grade steel in the axel shafts and leaf springs stock, better designed front IFS, a vacuum system that will lock my hubs in in the event of a leak while off roading vs other that will not, better designed frame, and a better looking truck. I will say they all have something good to bring to the table though. The new GMC's look fairly nice. I do like the new Tacoma TRD's.
EuroCars usually have a 4yr/50,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty. Contrast that with 3yr/36,000 for domestic vehicles and a 5yr/60k for the powertrain only. The warranty helps, but I'll give you that parts are ridiculously expensive. As an example, a 2015 Ford F150 water pump is $105. A 2015 C350 water pump is $388. (I just looked ;) )
But European cars are just flat out solid. I have driven Audis and MB extensively and you can tell they are built to a higher standard than American vehicles. Period. Even in the high end Caddys you'll be able to spot the cheap interior plastics and get tons of wind/road noise in the comparative MB.
What one should enjoy about Eurocars most is their comfort. Even in a 10 year old Benz approaching 150k you'll still be able to drive along at 100mph and have people on the phone remark "You're in the car? I can't hear a thing." Try doing that in an F250.
You cannot compare a luxury car to a 3/4 ton truck built for work.
39544
This is what the Bronco will most likely look like, and if so hell yeah.
I love my 2010 F150. I have pics of it in other threads.
I have quite a few reasons why I choose F150 over other full sized trucks. Higher grade steel in the axel shafts and leaf springs stock, better designed front IFS, a vacuum system that will lock my hubs in in the event of a leak while off roading vs other that will not, better designed frame, and a better looking truck. I will say they all have something good to bring to the table though. The new GMC's look fairly nice. I do like the new Tacoma TRD's.
I feel like that rendering is so old, I would be shocked if it looked like that.
You cannot compare a luxury car to a 3/4 ton truck built for work.
Thats odd, the manufacturers sure try to. Any more they have become the American luxury car, just with a bed attached.
Looking forward to going hands on with the new Ranger... I'll just about have my Tacoma SR5 paid off by then!
Seriously though, it will have to be quite the truck to pull me away from the Taco. It will have to be just about perfect in fact.
What the market needs is a simple, easy to work on, lightweight 4x4.
Extended cab 4 cylinder manual trans Taco. A comparable Frontier would be easy to work on too and their VQ series 4 liter V6 is a pretty straight forward motor as well.
Extended cab 4 cylinder manual trans Taco. A comparable Frontier would be easy to work on too and their VQ series 4 liter V6 is a pretty straight forward motor as well.
Supposedly the frontier is in for a redesign and will surface as a midsize with an available diesel option. That's also why the Xterra is coming off the market, dealer indicates it will resurface after the New Frontier based on the new platform
The current Frontiers are solid but a very dated design and not competitive
I was surprised at how much I liked the Titan with the Cummins, but it won't replace my early 3rd gen Cummins Ram. Lower payload, lighter-duty running gear, similar fuel mileage. Maybe improved build quality in the body. But not enough to replace it.
I can carry a Tacoma or Frontier on a trailer and just about duplicate their mileage if they were driving! Just crazy that a 1 ton can duplicate/beat mileage of much smaller trucks
brickboy240
05-20-16, 11:26
Have you priced the Cummins Titan?
You can get a pretty loaded up Ford, Chevy or Dodge 3/4 ton diesel for what you'd pay for the 1/2 ton diesel Titan.
It is a niche truck at best.
Have you priced the Cummins Titan?
You can get a pretty loaded up Ford, Chevy or Dodge 3/4 ton diesel for what you'd pay for the 1/2 ton diesel Titan.
That was my point, nice half ton, but for the money it's short on functionality or even advantages over a Cummins Ram.
That said, I'd take the Nissan general build quality over Ford/Chevy/Dodge. (I've owned trucks and cars from all three) But its still lighter running gear, lower payload, lower torque, for almost no mileage gain with the smaller engine.
I loved the mileage (25-30) & functionality of my Diesel 4x4 Liberty. But US emissions add ons and poor Jeep build quality made it not worth the effort long term.
turnburglar
05-21-16, 21:08
The problem with the Tacoma, Colorado, Frontier and this Ranger is that they are not tons cheaper than a full size truck, nor do they really get that much better mileage. Many also have punky V6s that do not have the grunt of the V8s offered in the full size trucks. Ditto for bed space. can't pull much with most of them, either.
So in the end, I'd rather have a full sized truck.
I just did this. Got really excited about the new colorado, than realized its TINY and the fact that I got my silverado crew cab for LESS than a colorado crew cab (33k) made it a no brainer. Never had buyers remorse for even a second. The mid sized truck needs to cost 20. Not high 30's.
I have a friend that is an automotive engineer of some sort. Does a lot of real world testing for the industry out here in the desert.
He tested the new Titan XD with the 5.0 V8 Cummins. His description of it was that it's a half ton sized truck with a 3/4 ton frame and suspension. he was very impressed with the truck but said he isn't trading in his Duramax for one.
The Titan XD is not aimed to compete against the 3/4 ton trucks. It's aimed at the market of people who sit right at the tipping point. The people that have 10 to 12 thousand pound trailers and don't feel comfortable towing it with a 1/2 ton but don't want a 3/4 ton for some reason. That's why it's being called the 2/3 or 3/5 ton truck. Also you realize that Nissan is only selling the top models of the Titan XD right now right? Thats why they are so expensive currently. Later this year you will be able to buy the low grade models and the work truck models. They are also releasing the regular Titan later this year too. Why they are doing it this way who knows.
I have a friend that is an automotive engineer of some sort. Does a lot of real world testing for the industry out here in the desert.
He tested the new Titan XD with the 5.0 V8 Cummins. His description of it was that it's a half ton sized truck with a 3/4 ton frame and suspension. he was very impressed with the truck but said he isn't trading in his Duramax for one.
The Titan XD is not aimed to compete against the 3/4 ton trucks. It's aimed at the market of people who sit right at the tipping point. The people that have 10 to 12 thousand pound trailers and don't feel comfortable towing it with a 1/2 ton but don't want a 3/4 ton for some reason. That's why it's being called the 2/3 or 3/5 ton truck. Also you realize that Nissan is only selling the top models of the Titan XD right now right? Thats why they are so expensive currently. Later this year you will be able to buy the low grade models and the work truck models. They are also releasing the regular Titan later this year too. Why they are doing it this way who knows.
I saw one of these last week. It is huge! Looks like a 1/2 ton on steroids.
brickboy240
05-23-16, 11:46
Not to mention that unless you are a little person or you plan on carrying only 5 year olds, the back seats are very tight in the Colorado/Canyon and in the Frontier. I bet the rear seats in the new Ranger are equally as tight.
I saw a new Titan diesel in a parking lot and it still had a new dealer sticker on the side window. MSRP on the diesel Titan was around 60 grand! Whew!
FlyAndFight
05-23-16, 13:09
My 2004 Ford Ranger "Edge" extended cab is still going strong.
I definitely would have preferred a proper crew cab from the get-go but it's worked out fine all of these years. My son will inherit it in a couple of years.
Not to mention that unless you are a little person or you plan on carrying only 5 year olds, the back seats are very tight in the Colorado/Canyon and in the Frontier. I bet the rear seats in the new Ranger are equally as tight.
I saw a new Titan diesel in a parking lot and it still had a new dealer sticker on the side window. MSRP on the diesel Titan was around 60 grand! Whew!
Oh yeah. They high end models are getting crazy expensive. I believe Ford Superduty and Ram 2500/3500 both have models over 70k now. Hell the top of the line F150 is 65k.
I think the new Titans look hideous but this Warrior concept looks nice.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Nissan/Nissan-Titan-Warrior-Concept-Pickup-00.jpg
Oh yeah. They high end models are getting crazy expensive. I believe Ford Superduty and Ram 2500/3500 both have models over 70k now. Hell the top of the line F150 is 65k.
It would cost me double what I paid to buy my '03 Cummins Ram 3500 quad cab 4x4 now
I think the new Titans look hideous but this Warrior concept looks nice.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Nissan/Nissan-Titan-Warrior-Concept-Pickup-00.jpg
I've seen a Titan pretty close to that, might have been the pro-4x or something. Unless the dealer did some aftermarket stuff
I think the new Titans look hideous but this Warrior concept looks nice.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Nissan/Nissan-Titan-Warrior-Concept-Pickup-00.jpg
That is a badass looking truck. Im waiting on the new regular Titan to be released. The Titan XD has a taller front end to accommodate the Cummins motor and I think that front end really throws the proportions off. I think a shorter, more sleek front end will help the truck look better. Im also not a fan of the side vent thingy in front of the front doors.
I still think the new GMCs are the best looking truck right now.
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUC8iezEOnc
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUC8iezEOnc
Not bad but I am not a fan at all of those grills. I would take a GMC over a Chevy, Nissan, Dodge/Ram any day of the week. The new TRD Tundra's are ok. I still like Fords the most appearance wise. I still like the 2008-2014 body style 150's the most though.
My truck (I have different head and tail lights on it now):
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/KungFuHyphy/f1501_zpsgswqv36d.jpg
Not bad but I am not a fan at all of those grills. I would take a GMC over a Chevy, Nissan, Dodge/Ram any day of the week. The new TRD Tundra's are ok. I still like Fords the most appearance wise. I still like the 2008-2014 body style 150's the most though.
My truck (I have different head and tail lights on it now):
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/KungFuHyphy/f1501_zpsgswqv36d.jpg
That's a good looking truck. What size tires are those and what kind/height lift is that?
I do really like the new F150s with the blacked out grills. Im not a fan of chrome.
I think the late model, like 2012-2014 FX4 F150s are still my favorite though the new GMC is right up there. I do love my Tundra though.
That's a good looking truck. What size tires are those and what kind/height lift is that?
I do really like the new F150s with the blacked out grills. Im not a fan of chrome.
I think the late model, like 2012-2014 FX4 F150s are still my favorite though the new GMC is right up there. I do love my Tundra though.
Correction on my last post: 2009-2014***
They are 275/70R18, roughly 33.2" tall and 10.8" wide. I have a stage 2 Icon level/lift (adjustable front 2.5" coilovers, 2" rear mono tube shocks, tubular uca's, and 2.5" f150lifts.com rear blocks and u-bolts). I also have some other stuff done as well: RCI skid plates, Crown stainless brake lines, ReadyLift tie rods, 5 Star tunes w/ a LiveWire TS programmer, Raptor oem halogen head and tail lights, I still have a bunch of stuff I want to do to it.
I am not a fan of chrome either. I like the new 150's but something about the front just bugs me. Another thing I do not like about 2011 and on 150's is they have EPAS (electronic power assisted steering), which is weaker than hydraulic. The Raptors do not have EPAS. Not something I want in an offroad vehicle.
Eurodriver
05-24-16, 05:50
You cannot compare a luxury car to a 3/4 ton truck built for work.
Are you sure that is not the case? Name one feature on a full spec Mercedes E Class that is not on a full spec 2016 F150. Leather, adaptive cruise control, Sat Nav, Sat Radio, etc It's all there.
The fact that they are the same exact MSRP only confirm's what Vandal was saying. You're basically buying a louder, slower, less comfortable Mercedes E Class with a bed on it.
Trucks are just stupid expensive. If a fully loaded F150 was $28,000 I would be all about it. But $60,000? Are you ****ing kidding me? For a truck? A "Work truck"? That's the down payment on a nice house. What kind of work does someone do that would justify them dropping $60,000?
You could quite literally buy a Mercedes C class brand new, and a $15,000 used "work truck" for the price of a fully loaded full size truck and have the best of both worlds: Not looking like a hillbilly when you go out, and being able to beat up your "work truck" without taking any depreciation on it whatsoever.
Are you sure that is not the case? Name one feature on a full spec Mercedes E Class that is not on a full spec 2016 F150. Leather, adaptive cruise control, Sat Nav, Sat Radio, etc It's all there.
The fact that they are the same exact MSRP only confirm's what Vandal was saying. You're basically buying a louder, slower, less comfortable Mercedes E Class with a bed on it.
Trucks are just stupid expensive. If a fully loaded F150 was $28,000 I would be all about it. But $60,000? Are you ****ing kidding me? For a truck? A "Work truck"? That's the down payment on a nice house. What kind of work does someone do that would justify them dropping $60,000?
You could quite literally buy a Mercedes C class brand new, and a $15,000 used "work truck" for the price of a fully loaded full size truck and have the best of both worlds: Not looking like a hillbilly when you go out, and being able to beat up your "work truck" without taking any depreciation on it whatsoever.
I was referencing where you said F250. If it was a typo carry on.
I think a sixty thousand dollar truck is non-sense but they obviously sell, and sell well considering trucks are the number one selling vehicles in the states. It is what the consumer wants. I do not want or care for all those luxuries in a truck.
Though that analogy is a crude one at best. No Merc or any other luxury car for that matter can haul a half ton of payload, pull a 6-8 thousand pound trailer, allow the user to navigate on anything other than pavement, etc.
Also, people who drive trucks are hillbillies now?
wildcard600
05-24-16, 10:31
Also, people who drive trucks are hillbillies now?
Or rednecks. On the other hand though, i've never heard of anyone having to leave the heat on in thier truck to try and get rid of bedbugs.
brickboy240
05-24-16, 11:25
Depends on where you live.
Here in South Texas...you are NOT a redneck or hillbilly because you drive a pickup. You are normal and a fairly common sight. LOL
JackFanToM
05-24-16, 12:16
Exactly. This point is missed 9 times out of 5 by the types that drive lifted full size trucks.
...that they always tend to be shorter than me is always a curiosity factor too. :confused:
Compensation trucks [emoji4]. Been seeing quite a few of those since my return to Texas.
JackFanToM
05-24-16, 12:24
I owned a Nissan Frontier for years (own an xterra pro4x now and wish I still had the frontier). I test drove comparable tacomas, but the cabs were smaller, they had way less power under the hood, and cost more. I don't know all the specs, but my frontier was gtg off roading, and just looked better than a Tacoma. I understand the love for the ranger, the old style f150 and rangers screamed work truck, but the modern fords...not so much.
Compensation trucks [emoji4]. Been seeing quite a few of those since my return to Texas.
Not specifically directed towards you, but god I hate that lousy passive aggressive fallacy.
There are of course vehicles of "compensation" in any form of style, but just because someone has different tastes does not mean anything other than that. A high majority of the people who perpetuate that non-sense are themselves insecure, and in their feeble attempts at being facetious are only looking to validate their own tastes and to project their insecurities by being condescending towards others.
JackFanToM
05-24-16, 23:15
I would love that stereotype to be a fallacy, but far too often I see some guy who is 5' nothing, ready to talk shit to anyone, and only uses their big ass 4x4 for the daily commute. You can call it what you want, but more than 50% of the time the stereotype will ring true where I live.
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I would love that stereotype to be a fallacy, but far too often I see some guy who is 5' nothing, ready to talk shit to anyone, and only uses their big ass 4x4 for the daily commute. You can call it what you want, but more than 50% of the time the stereotype will ring true where I live.
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While it holds some truth in your experiences, applying it universally would be turning it into a anecdotal fallacy.
It still kills me.. 60k plus for a 4x4 and I can't getting anything with a damn handshaker in it anymore.
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You can still pick up full size 4x4s for a good price if you don't want all the luxury car items in them. I have a friend with a 2013ish model 4 door F150 4x4 with the 5.0 V8 that was only 30k. My friend's father picked up a 2015 Ram Hemi 4x4 4 door for 29k on sale. Neither of them have interiors or technology comparable to a luxury car but they are damn good trucks.
I've also seen single cab V8 F150s in the low 20s on sale and single cab V6 F150s for 19k.
You can still pick up full size 4x4s for a good price if you don't want all the luxury car items in them. I have a friend with a 2013ish model 4 door F150 4x4 with the 5.0 V8 that was only 30k. My friend's father picked up a 2015 Ram Hemi 4x4 4 door for 29k on sale. Neither of them have interiors or technology comparable to a luxury car but they are damn good trucks.
I've also seen single cab V8 F150s in the low 20s on sale and single cab V6 F150s for 19k.
Hell you can go a couple years older and get one for real cheap. I paid 12k for mine with a blue book value of just under 17k.
Hell you can go a couple years older and get one for real cheap. I paid 12k for mine with a blue book value of just under 17k.
Oh yeah. I should have noted those two trucks were bought new for those prices. The great thing about trucks is they last forever.
When I was doing my truck research I realized that truck fanboys are the worst in the auto industry. Only their model was good and all the others were steaming piles of crap.
Then I started talking with my friends and coworkers, who own a lot of trucks, and guys had every model I was looking at. And guys had every model that was 10+ years old with 150K+ miles. Other than replacing auxiliary pieces, like water pumps and what not, all of them held up very well through the years.
Oh yeah. I should have noted those two trucks were bought new for those prices. The great thing about trucks is they last forever.
When I was doing my truck research I realized that truck fanboys are the worst in the auto industry. Only their model was good and all the others were steaming piles of crap.
Then I started talking with my friends and coworkers, who own a lot of trucks, and guys had every model I was looking at. And guys had every model that was 10+ years old with 150K+ miles. Other than replacing auxiliary pieces, like water pumps and what not, all of them held up very well through the years.
I am bias towards Ford, but I have to agree. The die hard brand jockey's simply refuse to recognize such though. If I had to choose a top three, in order: Ford, Toyota, GMC. I do not honestly think there were ever really any crap generations of trucks since trucks came to be. Ford did have those uni-body trucks for a generation back from '61-'63 (though they were not true uni-bodies, but a single bed & cab), but even those were some decently tough trucks compared to the uni-body ridgeline.
JackFanToM
05-25-16, 07:58
While it holds some truth in your experiences, applying it universally would be turning it into a anecdotal fallacy.
To add perspective, I've lived in the following 6 States in the past decade: Ohio, Michigan, Arizona, Colorado, South Dakota, and now Texas, and from my experience the stereotype seems pretty damning. In the event you have a more universal view, excellent. I'm not sure why this particular stereotype bothers you, but personally I don't care what people spend their money on...I simply observe what I observe, and I see the stereotype enforced more often than not.
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brickboy240
05-25-16, 10:49
Don't some people also look at Vettes and other sports cars as "compensation vehicles" as well? I believe they do.
I just laugh at it all...you are not a hick or hillbilly because you drive a pickup. Some of us actually have things to haul. Things that cannot fit in a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger.
...please
To add perspective, I've lived in the following 6 States in the past decade: Ohio, Michigan, Arizona, Colorado, South Dakota, and now Texas, and from my experience the stereotype seems pretty damning. In the event you have a more universal view, excellent. I'm not sure why this particular stereotype bothers you, but personally I don't care what people spend their money on...I simply observe what I observe, and I see the stereotype enforced more often than not.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Again your experience is but a blip in the space time continuum. Haha, but honestly millions of trucks are sold a year, and a decent portion of those get lifted and so on. Your anecdotes would be in the same fraction realm as someone winning the lottery. It bothers me the same as any other in a similar fashion; old guys driving sports cars, atv/dirt bike riders, harley riders, lowriders, tuners, firearm owners, etc. I do not ascribe to it.
JackFanToM
05-25-16, 13:13
I think there is a disconnect here. I neither care nor have issue with how people spend their money. I simply stated a stereotype that exists in jest, but taking issue with or arguing that the stereotype does not exist or is perpetuated without justification is moronic. The stereotype exists, deal with it. You own a firearm, and due to bubbas with guns, we are subjected to stereotypes. Getting bent out of shape due to the use of that stereotype, or due to being lumped in to that stereotype simply does nothing.
I have owned pickup trucks, and I find that owning a truck prevents one from needing to borrow one when hauling or moving items. Most of my driving is road driving, so I lacked any need for lifting my truck, and simply have better ways to spend my money. Do I care if others spend theirs to do so, no. Do I see a ton of trucks that are merely objects of affection vs real use tools, yes. Do I care, no. Is the stereotype being fed, yes. In the event you are insulted by the stereotype you can stop feeding it, or ignore it, but simply stating it is perpetuated without substance is ludicrous. As stated, tons of lift kits are sold, how many are truly necessary? Tons of vettes are sold (wish I had a 67 with the l88 427), but how many are sold to middle aged guys that drive them like sedans? See the stereotypes ring true, no need to argue that. I'm middle aged and would add to the vette stereotype if it was a priority to me, it is not so I don't. There are a ton of lifted up, well chromed and polished trucks here in Dallas that will never go off roading or be used to haul anything of substance, and of those many were purchased by those that secretly fantasize about being a cowboy/rancher/off roader/ etc. they are compensating for that missing part of their life. Not you? Then stop wasting energy being offended. I bought an xterra pro4x in Rapid City, SD and yes it is overkill for road snow driving. Now I'm in Texas, and I manage hotels, if someone called it a compensation vehicle I'd neither be offended nor care.
I think there is a disconnect here. I neither care nor have issue with how people spend their money. I simply stated a stereotype that exists in jest, but taking issue with or arguing that the stereotype does not exist or is perpetuated without justification is moronic. The stereotype exists, deal with it. You own a firearm, and due to bubbas with guns, we are subjected to stereotypes. Getting bent out of shape due to the use of that stereotype, or due to being lumped in to that stereotype simply does nothing.
I have owned pickup trucks, and I find that owning a truck prevents one from needing to borrow one when hauling or moving items. Most of my driving is road driving, so I lacked any need for lifting my truck, and simply have better ways to spend my money. Do I care if others spend theirs to do so, no. Do I see a ton of trucks that are merely objects of affection vs real use tools, yes. Do I care, no. Is the stereotype being fed, yes. In the event you are insulted by the stereotype you can stop feeding it, or ignore it, but simply stating it is perpetuated without substance is ludicrous. As stated, tons of lift kits are sold, how many are truly necessary? Tons of vettes are sold (wish I had a 67 with the l88 427), but how many are sold to middle aged guys that drive them like sedans? See the stereotypes ring true, no need to argue that. I'm middle aged and would add to the vette stereotype if it was a priority to me, it is not so I don't. There are a ton of lifted up, well chromed and polished trucks here in Dallas that will never go off roading or be used to haul anything of substance, and of those many were purchased by those that secretly fantasize about being a cowboy/rancher/off roader/ etc. they are compensating for that missing part of their life. Not you? Then stop wasting energy being offended. I bought an xterra pro4x in Rapid City, SD and yes it is overkill for road snow driving. Now I'm in Texas, and I manage hotels, if someone called it a compensation vehicle I'd neither be offended nor care.
You can dance around the subject all you want but adding fuel to the fire by continuing to perpetuate a fallacy is ignorant and childish. It is on the level of spreading rumors like a high school chearleader. I never said I was offended. There are stereotypes that are logical and have reasonable uses, that is not one of them. You are trying to justify it by projecting; sounds of insecurity to me. Like I originally said anyway, it was never specifically directed towards you, but it seems you took it personally. There is nothing moronic about calling out an anecdotal fallacy and attempting to lock it up.
Back to your regulary scheduled program.
I got the chance to drive a Pesh Merga Hilux on my last deployment when we were conducting a patrol through this village in the mountains of northern Iraq. I really wish they would bring those things here.
JackFanToM
05-27-16, 10:02
First, OP sorry this BS sidetracked your thread. Second, I'm still unsure how jokingly using an existing stereotype perpetuates it. Those that fit the stereotype and subscribe to the behavior/attributes that make up the stereotype perpetuate it. Lastly, this conversation is dead to me and I'm moving on.
Hope ford brings back the heavy duty look of the old Broncos and doesn't go with the pseudo mini van-ish appearance of the modern explorers
Hope ford brings back the heavy duty look of the old Broncos and doesn't go with the pseudo mini van-ish appearance of the modern explorers
If they use a crossover as a base for the next Bronco, they are insane! They need to use the 150 or start from scratch. They would be fools to tarnish the history of the Bronco doing otherwise.
Moose-Knuckle
05-28-16, 03:26
I have a sneaking suspicion that Ford is going to screw the pooch with the Bronco re-launch like Toyota did with the FJ Cruiser. Automobile manufactures are a lot like firearm manufactures in that way.
Body on frame SUV's do not sell well any more. There is no way Ford will launch a body on frame Bronco.
People want the ride quality of unibody for the 90+% of their daily driving on the highway.
Eurodriver
05-28-16, 08:02
You can still pick up full size 4x4s for a good price if you don't want all the luxury car items in them. I have a friend with a 2013ish model 4 door F150 4x4 with the 5.0 V8 that was only 30k. My friend's father picked up a 2015 Ram Hemi 4x4 4 door for 29k on sale. Neither of them have interiors or technology comparable to a luxury car but they are damn good trucks.
Both of those are still extremely expensive for a toy. Different needs/strokes of course, but for me a 4x4 is just for the woods. How frequently are people driving out there? 10x a year? Why the need for a bed? One could pick up a used TJ for $10k that would crush it out there.
I live in a city. It hasn't snowed here in 10,000 years. I work in professional services. I never buy furniture. I have no desire to look foolish driving a lifted truck.
Yet, aside from the last statement, all of those apply to guys I know that drive huge diesels. I could understand if an F150 quad cab 4x4 V8 was $20k, but for the prices they pay I just scratch my head. They get terrible gas mileage, they're hard to park, people laugh at you, they're so expensive. Not debating the merits of having a truck if you are a handiman, nor am I extolling the virtuous cry of liberal environmentally driven "Why do you need it?!?", but for city folks working at Merrill Lynch where is the appeal?...:confused:
I'd rock the hell out of a tastefully lifted Tacoma 4x4 Quad Cab fs, but there ain't no way in hell I'm spending more than $25k on a new one. Anything more than that just is ridiculous. Like paying $40,000 for a Jet Ski.
This is comical...if Ford releases a new Bronco and it is not a body over frame true badass capable 4x4 than all they are doing is ruining the bronco legacy. It needs to be retro to appear like the originals which were and still are badass - like they have done with the mustang. Look at the success of the 4 door jeeps and the raptor - clearly this is a market that has potential!
We actually just got my wife a new 4Runner. I wanted her to get something bigger but she wanted something in that size of SUV. The fact that it is the only body over frame SUV in that class was actually one of the biggest reasons we got it. It rides great, will run forever, and has all the lux you'd ever want. Oh and it can hang off road!!!
Personally, I drive a full size truck. On my 3rd F-150 all of which have been great! Mine is a 2012 quad cab 4x4 with the 5.0 and a 6.5' bed rolling on 35s. Why do I drive it, because it's what I want to drive just like some want a Euro, some want a mini, jeep, etc...
Is it hard to park, not really - not if you can use your mirrors. Does it suck gas - yeah about 15mpg average. Do people laugh at me; maybe but I can care less. Do I laugh when they're in the ditch? Maybe but I've also towed a few out.
To each their own but I'll take my truck any day of the week over a car or midsize...hell im even leaning towards a 3/4 ton as half tons are seemingly becoming less and less of a truck!
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Outlander Systems
05-28-16, 09:03
GO ALLOUT,
One of my arguments for a long time is that Jeep has absolutely ZERO competition for the Wrangler. None.
How major manufacturers haven't stepped up, and offered a solid competitor to the Wrangler blows my mind.
GO ALLOUT,
One of my arguments for a long time is that Jeep has absolutely ZERO competition for the Wrangler. None.
How major manufacturers haven't stepped up, and offered a solid competitor to the Wrangler blows my mind.
Agreed - and jeep(as much as I love them) kind of suck without TONS of upgrades...and cost way too much for what you get. Ford can easily gain some of that market share by hitting us with a new BRONC!
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Outlander Systems
05-28-16, 09:20
Absolutely.
Here's to hoping they make a real Bronco, and not an Explorer with a "Bronco" emblem on it...
Agreed - and jeep(as much as I love them) kind of suck without TONS of upgrades...and cost way too much for what you get. Ford can easily gain some of that market share by hitting us with a new BRONC!
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Absolutely.
Here's to hoping they make a real Bronco, and not an Explorer with a "Bronco" emblem on it...
Agreed - when we were looking for my wife we checked out the new explorers...while they were very nice, it in my mind is not an SUV - but more of a crossover(station wagon on roids).
I was bummed as I had 3 exploders back in the day before I got my first truck and they were always fairly capable. Also, as someone else already added - the expedition is long overdue for an overhaul and was not even considered...nor were many of the Government Motors products...which is kind of a shame as I like a lot of their offerings...especially the duramax/Allison combo!!!
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GO ALLOUT,
One of my arguments for a long time is that Jeep has absolutely ZERO competition for the Wrangler. None.
How major manufacturers haven't stepped up, and offered a solid competitor to the Wrangler blows my mind.
FCA (formerly known as Chrysler) will not survive. They are on the bitter edge of bankruptcy yet again and their Italian CEO has been clamoring for a merger. If their products were "all that" someone would have snapped them up by now. They discount everything to move product, including their shitty "HEMI" trucks. Dodge trucks are the Bushmaster of the truck world.
The reason no-one has built competition is they don't sell well and aren't that profitable. Companies aren't doing this for the FSA, they're doing it to make money.
FCA (formerly known as Chrysler) will not survive. They are on the bitter edge of bankruptcy yet again and their Italian CEO has been clamoring for a merger. If their products were "all that" someone would have snapped them up by now. They discount everything to move product, including their shitty "HEMI" trucks. Dodge trucks are the Bushmaster of the truck world.
The reason no-one has built competition is they don't sell well and aren't that profitable. Companies aren't doing this for the FSA, they're doing it to make money.
While I agree on so many of those points - wranglers sell well...VERY well and aside from trucks maintain some of the best resale and long term value...
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While I agree on so many of those points - wranglers sell well...VERY well and aside from trucks maintain some of the best resale and long term value...
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I looked at the numbers and they sell better than I expected.
I wonder about the demand for a competitive market entry in that segment. Most have been fine letting Jeep own that market and likely with sensible financial reasoning.
For all the crying FCA does I see Jeep and Ram being spun off as their own brand as they sell well and have good names. The rest of Chrysler will be absorbed or closed out. As for the new ranger (South American) I checked one out the other day. Not too impressed as the frame and running gear sit low. Though Toyota has their problems they also have some good advantages. As for the Bronco I don't see that one selling. Ford rolls it out every few years to spark interest in the brand. Ford does not have anything capable enough to put it on unless they are looking at the full size truck chassis. Just don't see it coming to market.
I looked at the numbers and they sell better than I expected.
I wonder about the demand for a competitive market entry in that segment. Most have been fine letting Jeep own that market and likely with sensible financial reasoning.
I think they could do great if they do it right...it needs a frame and two true axles, decent yet not overly aggressive stance, roll cage, removable hard/soft top, removable doors, 5.0 V8 or a small diesel for a power plant(eco boom is what it is and does produce impressive power but reliability is king in this market). Looking at the success of the raptor, this should be a no brainier.
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Agreed - and jeep(as much as I love them) kind of suck without TONS of upgrades...and cost way too much for what you get. Ford can easily gain some of that market share by hitting us with a new BRONC!
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They also lately have not had very good power plants. They also seem to be sitting lower and lower..
Both of those are still extremely expensive for a toy. Different needs/strokes of course, but for me a 4x4 is just for the woods. How frequently are people driving out there? 10x a year? Why the need for a bed? One could pick up a used TJ for $10k that would crush it out there.
I live in a city. It hasn't snowed here in 10,000 years. I work in professional services. I never buy furniture. I have no desire to look foolish driving a lifted truck.
Yet, aside from the last statement, all of those apply to guys I know that drive huge diesels. I could understand if an F150 quad cab 4x4 V8 was $20k, but for the prices they pay I just scratch my head. They get terrible gas mileage, they're hard to park, people laugh at you, they're so expensive. Not debating the merits of having a truck if you are a handiman, nor am I extolling the virtuous cry of liberal environmentally driven "Why do you need it?!?", but for city folks working at Merrill Lynch where is the appeal?...:confused:
Need for a bed? There are many needs for a bed. Also the fact that a Jeep cannot tow virtually anything and have a crap payload. People in the city tow trailers and haul stuff too. They do not have to live in the boondocks or be a handyman. That ideology is along the lines of the people who do not understand people who own AR's. I do agree about the people who daily drive 8" lifted trucks, but to each their own; it is their choice.
Here is a fans concept I like:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/g6701/2020-ford-bronco-f150-raptor-concept-design/
http://roa.h-cdn.co/assets/16/21/980x490/landscape-1464285572-2020-fordsvt-bronco-2dr-blue.jpeg
wildcard600
06-02-16, 00:47
Agreed - and jeep(as much as I love them) kind of suck without TONS of upgrades...and cost way too much for what you get. Ford can easily gain some of that market share by hitting us with a new BRONC!
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If Ford does dip their toe in, they better bring the goods. The wrangler has put every other competing design into the grave.
I own jeeps simply because nobody else builds, or has built something as capable off the showroom floor (at least at the price point) in 30+ years.
If Ford does dip their toe in, they better bring the goods. The wrangler has put every other competing design into the grave.
I own jeeps simply because nobody else builds, or has built something as capable off the showroom floor (at least at the price point) in 30+ years.
That's a fact!
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If Ford does dip their toe in, they better bring the goods. The wrangler has put every other competing design into the grave.
I own jeeps simply because nobody else builds, or has built something as capable off the showroom floor (at least at the price point) in 30+ years.
What is "that price point"? The Power Wagon, with two lockers, disconnecting sway bars, and winch is fairly capable. Toyota LC's, FJC's (especially with a rear locker and a-trac), TRD Tacomas, PRO4X Frontiers and Xterra's, etc.
Several manufacturers are now offering lockers in 4wd vehicles, which when coupled with good tires makes a vehicle pretty capable.
What is "that price point"? The Power Wagon, with two lockers, disconnecting sway bars, and winch is fairly capable. Toyota LC's, FJC's (especially with a rear locker and a-trac), TRD Tacomas, PRO4X Frontiers and Xterra's, etc.
Several manufacturers are now offering lockers in 4wd vehicles, which when coupled with good tires makes a vehicle pretty capable.
Every now and then I'll get intrigued by a nicely setup Rubicon or similar, and go drive one.
Then reality hits... lotta money, pretty crude, can get similar capability with improved reliability for less.
Then again, I have a Pinzgauer to play with, so I want lockers, clearance AND a decent ride for my daily driver
No question that the aftermarket support for the jeeps rules, though.
wildcard600
06-02-16, 10:57
What is "that price point"? The Power Wagon, with two lockers, disconnecting sway bars, and winch is fairly capable. Toyota LC's, FJC's (especially with a rear locker and a-trac), TRD Tacomas, PRO4X Frontiers and Xterra's, etc.
Several manufacturers are now offering lockers in 4wd vehicles, which when coupled with good tires makes a vehicle pretty capable.
$25k
Some of those vehicles are no longer made like the FJ and Xterra, none of them have solid front axles and all of the remaining are well out of the 25k price range.
$25k
Some of those vehicles are no longer made like the FJ and Xterra, none of them have solid front axles and all of the remaining are well out of the 25k price range.
25K? So a bare bones 4cyl two door wrangler with crank windows? Because I just checked my local Jeep dealership and a 2 door rubicon is almost 40k....for a jeep. Also you can still find brand new Xterra's on dealer lots.
And unless youre rock crawling, is IFS really that bad?
wildcard600
06-02-16, 13:35
25K? So a bare bones 4cyl two door wrangler with crank windows? Because I just checked my local Jeep dealership and a 2 door rubicon is almost 40k....for a jeep. Also you can still find brand new Xterra's on dealer lots.
And unless youre rock crawling, is IFS really that bad?
All 2007+ wranglers had the same engines in all models. They haven't made a 4 cylinder since 2004.
The rubicon is a terrible value for the money IMO. For the price of a base model + $7,000 (assuming you do the install yourself) you can have a wrangler will fully selectable locked front and rear axles much stronger than the jokes that come with the rubi.
And if it dosen't have solid axles, it better have portal axles if i'm going to spend money on a 4x4. Not interested in IFS at all.
All 2007+ wranglers had the same engines in all models. They haven't made a 4 cylinder since 2004.
The rubicon is a terrible value for the money IMO. For the price of a base model + $7,000 (assuming you do the install yourself) you can have a wrangler will fully selectable locked front and rear axles much stronger than the jokes that come with the rubi.
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So that whole "off the showroom floor" thing is out the window now? I get it, you're a jeep guy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but they have plenty of competitors, especially if one needs more that just a 4wheeler (ie a pickup truck that is just as capable).
wildcard600
06-02-16, 14:21
So that whole "off the showroom floor" thing is out the window now? I get it, you're a jeep guy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but they have plenty of competitors, especially if one needs more that just a 4wheeler (ie a pickup truck that is just as capable).
No, I still believe a stock base model wrangler is overall the most capable 4x4 on the market (at least until you get into Land Rover $$$). I was just trying to illustrate that the price premium for the Rubicon is a joke.
As far a "competitors", trucks and fullsize SUV's are not direct competitors to the wrangler, nor are they as capable for pure off-roading. They simply do not have the wheel articulation and favorable breakover angle and turning radius. I don't need a truck and no-one else makes a 4 wheel drive vehicle that fills the niche that the wrangler does. Everytime someone tries to compete with jeep, they simply don't measure up and the market shows that. The wrangler also has the convertable top and removable doors which is another big selling point to many people.
I have no loyalty to Jeep to be honest. If toyota had made the FJ Cruiser a modern iteration of the FJ-40 I would have bought one instead of another wrangler. Instead they brought us a portly Ford explorer knockoff.
Now as far as offering a vehicle that does not have a real roof, and removable doors, yup jeep has the market cornered. That I will agree on.
But as far as "off the showroom floor" for 25k...I don't know that any company offers anything ground breaking. But once you start getting into the higher end models with lockers and such, most are capable and actually practical.
wildcard600
06-02-16, 15:11
Now as far as offering a vehicle that does not have a real roof, and removable doors, yup jeep has the market cornered. That I will agree on.
But as far as "off the showroom floor" for 25k...I don't know that any company offers anything ground breaking. But once you start getting into the higher end models with lockers and such, most are capable and actually practical.
Practical I guess would be a key word. My wrangler isn't really practical for anything other than off-roading, but thats the only thing I wanted or needed it for. A small truck would get me 80% of the places I take my jeep, but since i have a small trailer, I didn't need the truck and didn't want to compromise the off road ability.
The fact still stands that unless someone brings a true competitor to the wrangler (maybe minus the removable top/doors) it's going to go the way of every other half assed attempt thus far. Being overall such a tiny market and Jeep having dominated it for 75+ years, I just don't see Ford spending the dollars to engineer from the ground-up a serious effort.
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