View Full Version : EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
Was flying from Paris to Cairo and disappeared from the radar picture at 37,000 feet over the Med.
EgyptAir Flight Missing (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/05/19/egyptair-flight-from-paris-to-cairo-disappears-from-radar.html)
Suicide by a crew member, accident or was it blown out of the sky in some way? The rumors should start shortly.
Linebacker
05-19-16, 01:11
Flying in Islamic airspace. What could possibly go wrong with that?
"Cairo Center, Egypt Air flight 804 with yo..... KABBOM!
My parents went to Abu Dhabi and Dubai in January. Flying over Syria and Iraq... Oye
Flying in Islamic airspace. What could possibly go wrong with that?
If act of terror, we cannot assume Islamic....might be some radical Southern Baptists, or maybe some pissed off Hindus.
According to the news the aircraft had "erratic and severe" maneuvers just before falling off radar. Of course, of the three 'experts" piping in, they all had about five theories apiece. I imagine it'll be some time before we have any evidence, but all of it sounds very fishy for something other than engines going down.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-19-16, 07:49
Seems like it being anything other than terrorism is fairly small.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/egyptair-crash/egyptair-flight-ms804-three-air-marshals-were-aboard-missing-jet-n576621
Three air marshals were among the 66 people aboard Egyptair Flight MS804 that crashed while flying over the Mediterranean Sea early Thursday, authorities said.
France's transport chief Alain Vidalies told reporters that having that many security officers on such a flight was "the usual practice." He added that the plane — which can carry up to 189 passengers — was not transporting any freight.
http://news.sky.com/story/1698511/egyptair-jet-disappears-over-mediterranean-sea
A search is under way for an EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo which has disappeared with 56 passengers and 10 crew on board - including one British national.
The fate of the plane is not yet known and officials have said it is too early to rule out any possibility, including terrorism, but all those on board are now feared to have died.
French President Francois Hollande said "unfortunately the information we have ... confirms to us the plane came down and is lost", suggesting it crashed near the southern Greek island of Karpathos where the search is focused.
At the same time, Greek defence minister Panos Kammenos said the aircraft was in Egyptian airspace and flying at 37,000ft when it made "sudden swerves" and plunged to 15,000ft.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3598117/EgyptAir-flight-MS804-Paris-Cairo-goes-missing.html
EgyptAir jet went into a 'sharp spin' and fell 22,000ft before vanishing from radar says Greek defence minister – as air safety chief says crash was 'almost certainly a terror attack'
EgyptAir flight MS804 vanished over the Med at 00.30am GMT after leaving Paris at 9.09pm GMT on Wednesday
Airline said contact was lost with plane 10 miles into Egyptian air space about 40 minutes before it was due to land
Airbus A320 was flying at 37,000ft and did not make a distress call before it disappeared off radar, officials say
There were 56 passengers on board including one Briton, 30 Egyptians, 15 French and one Canadian and 10 crew
Major search operation underway as former air crash investigation chief says it is 'very probably an attack'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3598117/EgyptAir-flight-MS804-Paris-Cairo-goes-missing.html#ixzz496c4vfx6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Have flown Egypt Air several times to Cairo and never felt safe even before terrorist threats. I decided never again a long time ago!
Russian security official Alexander Bortnikov says “in all likelihood it was a terror attack” that caused EgyptAir Flight 804 from Paris to Cairo to crash into the Mediterranean early Thursday with 66 people on board.
Egyptian Civil Aviation Minister Sherif Fathi says the possibility of a terror attack as the cause of the EgyptAir crash is “stronger” than technical failure. Fathi was responding to a reporter’s question during a press conference on Thursday in Cairo.
WickedWillis
05-19-16, 10:19
Reading the report this morning, it sounds like they are leaning heavily towards a terrorist event. I'm really not sure what it's going to take to start an all out war on these radicals, maybe a few thousand more dead civilians in the next few years.
Any body want to bet on the religion of the ground crew that cleans the plane in Paris?
If it was terrorism it was a bomb placed on the plane by ground crew or carried on board by one of the 3 security.
brickboy240
05-19-16, 12:00
Workplace violence here...no terrorism...no Muslim extremists.
Nothing to see...move along.
LOL
It will be blamed on the NRA somehow .....
Just a checking question, but why the eff are 3 US Air Marshals on a flight between Paris and Cairo?? Was there a stop over in the US or a third leg this way?
Whiskey_Bravo
05-19-16, 13:51
Just a checking question, but why the eff are 3 US Air Marshals on a flight between Paris and Cairo?? Was there a stop over in the US or a third leg this way?
I assumed they were not US Marshals.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-19-16, 14:17
No US citizens on board from what I heard. Lots of empty seats on that plane. Interesting that it was coming from France, not the other way around.
brickboy240
05-19-16, 14:25
Why? A few of the recent terrorist attacks have sprung from France.
Does not surprise me.
Obviously one of the stoves for the "soup kitchen jihad" malfunctioned and damaged the plane, resulting in tragedy.
One theory now is some sort of military mishap. Possibly an errant missile. I know there are some military pilots among the membership here...is the fact that the aircraft performed an abrupt 90 degree turn before going into a spiraling 360 to the ground consistent with trying to get away from a missile, then being hit? I know that civilian aircraft don't carry any kind of ecm, but isn't a 90 degree turn from the threat the type of maneuver that one might employ if a missile was fired at you?
Just another theory and some other shit I've read.
I personally think it's likely a terror attack, but the presence of 3 Air Marshals, and the hard 90 before going down are not really consistent with most of these we've seen lately. And nobody has claimed responsibility.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-19-16, 16:29
Unless it was warned, I don't think a passenger airliner would have any clue until impact. If there were radio warnings, I would think that someone would have heard.
Please don't assume that the "air marshals" as in United States Federal Air Marshal Service/TSA/Homeland Security. Nowhere in any articles, blogs, tv reports said they were Americans, plus reports clearly said there were no Americans on this plane. I've seen news reports referring to them as airline security agents, that's it. They have to be Egyptians or French.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/egyptair-ms804-crash-3-air-marshals-board-speculat/nrQMX/
Please don't assume that the "air marshals" as in United States Federal Air Marshal Service/TSA/Homeland Security. Nowhere in any articles, blogs, tv reports said they were Americans, plus reports clearly said there were no Americans on this plane. I've seen news reports referring to them as airline security agents, that's it. They have to be Egyptians or French.
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/egyptair-ms804-crash-3-air-marshals-board-speculat/nrQMX/
Not sure if you are replying to me?
If so, yes...I understand it was foreign air marshals (Fox News description).
If I gave the impression otherwise, that was not my intent.
Unless it was warned, I don't think a passenger airliner would have any clue until impact. If there were radio warnings, I would think that someone would have heard.
Probably so. But a ship borne missile would have a plume and be seen.
KalashniKEV
05-19-16, 17:25
It will be blamed on the NRA somehow .....
It won't have to be blamed- Hillary's friends in ABM/ LIFG will be around to claim it soon.
This will be an absolute death blow for her campaign. She endorsed the no fly zone that allowed these forces to come to power in Libya and strike across North Africa.
The only voice that was stronger than hers against Gaddafi and the Jamahiriya?
...was Nicolas Sarkozy.
Obviously one of the stoves for the "soup kitchen jihad" malfunctioned and damaged the plane, resulting in tragedy.
Switch it back on, homey. You used to post smarter.
Use your ijthihad.
This is a war.
Outlander Systems
05-19-16, 18:02
Kev, if the SCOTUS can argue the inherent flexibility of the word, "State," surely, Perennial Near-Felon Madame Clinton can conjure up a way to justify her failures, especially with the support of the media.
She is nothing more, nothing less, than a conniving criminal mastermind.
She got dis!
Where is Vlad Tepes when we need him?
Where is Vlad Tepes when we need him?
White European Islamaphobe. Modern Europeans prove they don't hate other races / religions by letting recent arrivals rape their wives, girlfriends or daughters and understand it's just about cultural differences.
White European Islamaphobe. Modern Europeans prove they don't hate other races / religions by letting recent arrivals rape their wives, girlfriends or daughters and understand it's just about cultural differences.
Phobe implies fear.
Please use -misia or -misiac.
Thank you.
Outlander Systems
05-19-16, 19:12
Dude, it's been all up in the news: Diversity is Strength!
Where is Vlad Tepes when we need him?
Can't be having none of this shit in Orwell's America:
united [ yoo-nahy-tid ]
Main Entry: united
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: combined; in agreement
Synonyms: affiliated, agreed, allied, amalgamated, assembled, associated, banded, coadunate, cognate, collective, concerted, concordant, confederated, congruent, conjoint, conjugate, conjunctive, consolidated, cooperative, corporate, federal, homogeneous, hooked up, in accord, in cahoots, incorporated, integrated, joined up, leagued, like-minded, lined up, linked, of one mind, of the same opinion, one, plugged in, pooled, tied in, unanimous, undivided, unified, unitary
Antonyms: divided, separated
Switch it back on, homey. You used to post smarter.
Use your ijthihad.
This is a war.
Exactly. It is a war - war going back 1400+ years. i.e. Jihad.
You're the one who suggested that jihad includes volunteering at soup kitchens. Jihad is about spreading Islam by force and coersion.
Back to the topic at hand. My money is on workplace violence. Technically an airplane is a workplace (for pilots, flight attendants), so, yep, it's workplace violence.
KalashniKEV
05-19-16, 20:00
Exactly. It is a war - war going back 1400+ years. i.e. Jihad.
You're the one who suggested that jihad includes volunteering at soup kitchens. Jihad is about spreading Islam by force and coersion.
I've already explained to you what jihad means.
Turn AM talk radio off.
Pull up a chair and let's have real talk about the war we're in.
...or maybe just keep repeating the nonsense that you've been fed.
Too many switched off types congregating here lately.
I for one think the "soup kitchen" spiel was taken out of context and is overplayed.
I think we are letting our biases affecting literal etymology of words.
I'm thinking Kev has a big handle on what the deal is and a lot of pride lately is standing in the way of teachable moments.
I don't think anyone here agrees with the actions of terrorists or has any sympathy for them, but I think we're getting hung up on minor niggles and phrasing.
I'm not an expert or a military guy. But realistically speaking, incrementalism is real. If there are constructive solutions to keep this from affecting OurTown, USA, I'd love to hear what someone who has BTDT and is obviously well versed has to say
Phobe implies fear.
Please use -misia or -misiac.
Thank you.
Correction noted.
KalashniKEV
05-19-16, 21:00
If there are constructive solutions to keep this from affecting OurTown, USA, I'd love to hear what someone who has BTDT and is obviously well versed has to say
Unfortunately, until one makes the conscious decision to switch the brain unit back on, the quality of their comments will never rise above, "Religion of Peace strikes again, hurr hurr hurr!" and they will simply look like a fool.
It's impossible to have any kind of discussion of the issue with someone who has been brainwashed. The reflexive comments from the usual sheep are predictable, and dull. They contribute nothing.
It's on us as Americans to tell a fool what his thoughts are worth- every single time. Never just let it slip.
Whether it's "all guns exist to kill" or "All Muslims/ Blacks/ Mexicans/ whatever..."
Ignorance should be corrected. Every single time.
Walking it back to the topic at hand, I was at mass the week before last when the priest mentioned the parish youth were on a spring retreat. He then delivered a sermon on jihad al jism or "jihad against the body" (though he didn't call it that) and I smiled thinking to myself about the origin of the word "jism."
Then I started thinking about who hell the guy was that came up with that BS, and why the world couldn't be conquered by one of the more sex positive faiths.
Then back to the topic of word definitions, I actually remembered participating in that intellectually bankrupt thread of a few weeks ago.
It made me feel like a complete idiot for even posting.
I guess that's just the burden of jihad bil lisan though...
Outlander Systems
05-19-16, 21:13
Step one, Cut this shit out: http://fortune.com/2016/05/17/saudi-arabia-us-debt-owns/
Foreigners hold something like 48% of all US debt.
So, when we're talking about 9-10 TRILLION dollars, I imagine there's all kinds of hanky-janky shit going on with corrupt politicians and shady FIS.
We should have gotten Ron Paul if we were a nation of adults, but we're a nation of grown children, who want Nanny to wipe our asses. So, fundamental transformation and all that razzmatazz.
Dude, we couldn't smoke enough pole to buy 100 billion+ worth of political favors.
As Kevin has suggested in the past, The Saudi connection is one worth looking into.
Start here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/02/18/foreign-donations-to-hillary-clintons-foundation-raise-major-ethical-questions/
I'm not an expert or a military guy. But realistically speaking, incrementalism is real. If there are constructive solutions to keep this from affecting OurTown, USA, I'd love to hear what someone who has BTDT and is obviously well versed has to say
I've already explained to you what jihad means.
Turn AM talk radio off.
Pull up a chair and let's have real talk about the war we're in.
...or maybe just keep repeating the nonsense that you've been fed.
Too many switched off types congregating here lately.
The only am radio I listen to is the traffic reports. If by "nonsense" I've been "fed" you mean reading the Koran and history, then I think I'll stick to it rather than accept whitewashed Islam.
Unfortunately, until one makes the conscious decision to switch the brain unit back on, the quality of their comments will never rise above, "Religion of Peace strikes again, hurr hurr hurr!" and they will simply look like a fool.
It's impossible to have any kind of discussion of the issue with someone who has been brainwashed. The reflexive comments from the usual sheep are predictable, and dull. They contribute nothing.
It's on us as Americans to tell a fool what his thoughts are worth- every single time. Never just let it slip.
Whether it's "all guns exist to kill" or "All Muslims/ Blacks/ Mexicans/ whatever..."
Ignorance should be corrected. Every single time.
Walking it back to the topic at hand, I was at mass the week before last when the priest mentioned the parish youth were on a spring retreat. He then delivered a sermon on jihad al jism or "jihad against the body" (though he didn't call it that) and I smiled thinking to myself about the origin of the word "jism."
Then I started thinking about who hell the guy was that came up with that BS, and why the world couldn't be conquered by one of the more sex positive faiths.
Then back to the topic of word definitions, I actually remembered participating in that intellectually bankrupt thread of a few weeks ago.
It made me feel like a complete idiot for even posting.
I guess that's just the burden of jihad bil lisan though...
Claiming that anyone who disagrees is "ignorant" and needing to "switch their brains back on" is a recurring tactic of those without arguments. Your equating ideology with race/skin colour is truly remarkable.
All Muslims, by definition, believe in the perfection and truth of the Koran, Mohammed, and all that entails, including Jihad, subjugation of kuffars, etc. That is radically different that having a particular skin pigmentation. Ideology is in the mind. Skin color is in the body. Your defence of Islam is like someone demanding that not all Nazis want to conquer the world and kill Jews, and then crying racism.
Islam is as Islam says and does. Mohammed would approve of ISIS. Need I go on?
It's impossible to have any kind of discussion of the issue with someone who has been brainwashed. The reflexive comments from the usual sheep are predictable, and dull. They contribute nothing.
http://i66.tinypic.com/2dhbkh2.jpg
KalashniKEV
05-19-16, 22:45
All Muslims, by definition, believe in the perfection and truth of the Koran, Mohammed, and all that entails, including Jihad, subjugation of kuffars, etc.
Oh really?
Does that mean you are ready to stop playing dumb and acknowledge the actual meaning of jihad?
Or are we going to pretend that jihad bis saif is all?
You do read the Koran, right? Or were you just talking about copypaste from hatesites?
Anyway, would you also support the absurd notion that all Christians think alike, or that you can pick up a Bible and understand the state of Christendom today?
Of course you wouldn't... because that would be incredibly ignorant.
deny deny deny
does not change the facts muslims are a problem and the majority is OK with jihad etc...
KalashniKEV
05-20-16, 05:37
does not change the facts muslims are a problem and the majority is OK with jihad etc...
Ummm... the war takes place in the Middle East.
Muslims are the problem and also the solution to the conflict.
Plus jihad??
Are we still playing dumb about all of these things? Let's re-enter reality...
Linebacker
05-20-16, 06:01
deny deny deny
does not change the facts muslims are a problem and the majority is OK with jihad etc...
This is correct.
Averageman
05-20-16, 06:15
At a time when our own TSA is in turmoil and the waiting time for processing is now causing people to miss their flights from the larger airports like Chicago's O'Hare, this happens?
I think the elements for something to happen here in the US are increasing.
As the events in Paris and Belgium ramp up, obviously the security at their airports didn't. When the guilty party is discovered, I don't think we're going to be surprised at who it will be.
At a time when our own TSA is in turmoil and the waiting time for processing is now causing people to miss their flights from the larger airports like Chicago's O'Hare, this happens?
I think the elements for something to happen here in the US are increasing.
As the events in Paris and Belgium ramp up, obviously the security at their airports didn't. When the guilty party is discovered, I don't think we're going to be surprised at who it will be.
TSA and general government ineptitude are going to be the cause of Rome style mass event here in the USA. No need to worry about sneaking bombs and guns and nail clippers onto airplanes when you have a couple of thousand soft targets bottled up inside a building and packed so tight no responding officers can maneuver in. Like fish in a barrel.
I tend to agree with Kev, that until we as a country get our heads out of our asses and begin using our brains we will not be able to improve our ability to protect ourselves. However, that is a 2 way street. People shouldn't be all "kill all Muslims and let Allah sort them out" but at the same time people need to stop being it's not terrorism, but workplace violence. You can't solve a problem you're NOT willing to admit exists. And we have a problem with terrorism, specifically coming from Muslim based areas of the world. Sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes.
I am not sure what the long term solution will look like, but if I had to guess by the way we approach the topic; the solution will be nothing. We will let things fizzle out, sacrificing thousands of innocents at the altar of PC. Then some asshat politician will get a Nobel Prize for inheriting a decade when people got a bit complacent abut blowing shit up.
I do believe that until we are able to call a terrorist a terrorist and openly discuss their motivations, be they Islam, Communism, syphilis or whatever we are never going to make a dent.
Averageman
05-20-16, 08:34
I am not sure what the long term solution will look like, but if I had to guess by the way we approach the topic; the solution will be nothing. We will let things fizzle out, sacrificing thousands of innocents at the altar of PC. Then some asshat politician will get a Nobel Prize for inheriting a decade when people got a bit complacent abut blowing shit up.
I do believe that until we are able to call a terrorist a terrorist and openly discuss their motivations, be they Islam, Communism, syphilis or whatever we are never going to make a dent.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/19/timothy-mcveigh-viewed-oklahoma-city-bombing-as-failure-docs-show.html
In the polygraph interview, McVeigh said when he was pulled over by an Oklahoma highway trooper shortly after the bombing for not displaying a license plate on his car, he had "several opportunities to kill the trooper, however, did not because he was a state official and not a federal official."
McVeigh talked about how an “action had to be taken” in response to the 1994 assault weapons ban. He also points out the outcome of the Branch Davidian siege near Waco as an influence.
You know we didn't seem to take issue with immediately finding and prosecuting McViegh and giving him the needle and I don't have a problem with the way that all worked out.
It would seem though if someone is from Saudi Arabia, might be brown, or might be a Muslim, we will look away, cover-up some details and disregard the obvious.
Oh really?
Does that mean you are ready to stop playing dumb and acknowledge the actual meaning of jihad?
Or are we going to pretend that jihad bis saif is all?
You do read the Koran, right? Or were you just talking about copypaste from hatesites?
Anyway, would you also support the absurd notion that all Christians think alike, or that you can pick up a Bible and understand the state of Christendom today?
Of course you wouldn't... because that would be incredibly ignorant.
Your attempts to find nuance in Islam and ascribe peaceful interpretations to obviously violent ideas is futile. At the end of the day, Islam is personified in Mohammed. He is the perfect Muslim. Now tell me, would Mohammed approve of this terrorist attack, and of Islamic terrorism in general, or not.
The answer is a resounding yes. That poses a problem for you. It demonstrates that Islamic violence is not a matter of perverting an otherwise peaceful religion, but that of a straightforward faithful interpretation of a violent ideology.
Until we acknowledge this, we will lose. Every. Single. Time.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/19/timothy-mcveigh-viewed-oklahoma-city-bombing-as-failure-docs-show.html
In the polygraph interview, McVeigh said when he was pulled over by an Oklahoma highway trooper shortly after the bombing for not displaying a license plate on his car, he had "several opportunities to kill the trooper, however, did not because he was a state official and not a federal official."
McVeigh talked about how an “action had to be taken” in response to the 1994 assault weapons ban. He also points out the outcome of the Branch Davidian siege near Waco as an influence.
You know we didn't seem to take issue with immediately finding and prosecuting McViegh and giving him the needle and I don't have a problem with the way that all worked out.
It would seem though if someone is from Saudi Arabia, might be brown, or might be a Muslim, we will look away, cover-up some details and disregard the obvious.
White non-Muslim male is the lowest on the totem pole. Brown Muslim male is at the top. Bro, do you even diversity??
Outlander Systems
05-20-16, 09:41
Of course he would.
Anyone arguing otherwise is bullshitting you.
In today's news, the United Islamic State, Mohammed's Divine Kingdom on Earth:
“ISIS terrorist members executed 25 persons in Mosul on charges of spying and collaborating with Iraqi security forces,” said a local source in a statement obtained by Iraqi News. “ISIS put the citizens in a large tub containing nitric acid inside one of its headquarters. ISIS members tied each person with a rope and lowered him in the tub, which contains nitric acid, till the victims organs dissolve.”
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/19/dissolving-victims-in-acid-is-the-newest-isis-execution-method/
Pretty sure, the difference, as a Christian, is that, were I to partake in that, my "spiritual afterlife" rewards would be even worse.
Your attempts to find nuance in Islam and ascribe peaceful interpretations to obviously violent ideas is futile. At the end of the day, Islam is personified in Mohammed. He is the perfect Muslim. Now tell me, would Mohammed approve of this terrorist attack, and of Islamic terrorism in general, or not.
The answer is a resounding yes. That poses a problem for you. It demonstrates that Islamic violence is not a matter of perverting an otherwise peaceful religion, but that of a straightforward faithful interpretation of a violent ideology.
Until we acknowledge this, we will lose. Every. Single. Time.
Warnings From the EgyptAir Tragedy
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-20/warnings-from-the-egyptair-tragedy
"Airport staff likely helped an Islamic State affiliate bring down a flight over Egypt in October. Two workers at Mogadishu's airport helped get a laptop bomb aboard a plane in February. Intelligence officials have worried for years about radicalization among staff at Charles de Gaulle Airport, where Flight 804 originated. Addressing these worries will require better background checks, more intensive monitoring and an awful lot of vigilance. It won't be easy."
KalashniKEV
05-20-16, 10:07
Your attempts to find nuance in Islam and ascribe peaceful interpretations to obviously violent ideas is futile.
You begin your argument by presenting this absurd statement because you don't understand the roots of the conflict we're fighting. Like any faith, there are almost as many interpretations as there are followers, and like any faith, mainstream Islam is peaceful and enlightening and there are also fringe radicals who conduct violence. But why do you suppose these violent strains (Wahhabism/ Salafism) gain traction in that part of the world?
Why do you suppose oil-rich Azerbaijan is a great place to dance the night away with a beautiful woman and oil-rich Iraq is a great place to get lowered into a vat of acid?
It's sad, but Joe Sixpack has been watching the game and eating chicken nuggets for the last 15 years of this war, and now has no other explanation for why we are fighting than "Muslims are bad and they all want to kill us."
It's no different than saying, "Guns are bad and all exist to kill us" and then going down some equally absurd path.
You think you have some valid idea, but the very launching point of your argument is a falsehood... resulting from either a desire to dumb-it-down or just plain ignorance of the war.
Get serious. Wake the hell up.
You begin your argument by presenting this absurd statement because you don't understand the roots of the conflict we're fighting.
The "roots"? Yeah, look, this conflict goes back before 9/11, before the United States even, and all the way back to ........ Mohammed. Waves of Jihad (not the soup kitchen variety) have assaulted the Dar al Harb for the last 1400 years. What are these other non-Muslim "roots" you allude to? Sykes-Picot? American "Imperialism"? Lack of jobs? (Lol!!!) Mohammed being drawn in a cartoon?
Like any faith, there are almost as many interpretations as there are followers, and like any faith, mainstream Islam is peaceful and enlightening and there are also fringe radicals who conduct violence. But why do you suppose these violent strains (Wahhabism/ Salafism) gain traction in that part of the world?
No, mainstream Islam is not peaceful and "enlightening" (spoken like a good convert, by the way). Mainstream Islam, by definition, is that practiced by the majority of Muslims. Notice how non-Muslims live in subjugation in Muslim countries (as directed by the Koran). Notice how apostasy is punishable by death. Notice how Islam is hostile to non-Muslims.
Why do you suppose oil-rich Azerbaijan is a great place to dance the night away with a beautiful woman and oil-rich Iraq is a great place to get lowered into a vat of acid?
That is because any place where you can "dance the night away" is not really Islamic. Those places are full of people who have not memorized the Koran, didn't go to madrasahs and don't know Islam. Afghanistan used to have women in universities - until their people learned Islam proper (the Islam of Mohammed - don't give me this interpretation spiel - we all know that Mohammed was a child-raping, zealot, murderer, slaver and psychopath).
It's sad, but Joe Sixpack has been watching the game and eating chicken nuggets for the last 15 years of this war, and now has no other explanation for why we are fighting than "Muslims are bad and they all want to kill us."
Red herring. We aren't talking about Joe Sixpack. People who know history know the detailed reasons why Islam is a toxic ideology bent on world domination and subjugation of non-Muslims.
Joe Sixpack probably does not know the exact reasons why Islam is bad, but that doesn't change the fact that Islam is bad.
It's no different than saying, "Guns are bad and all exist to kill us" and then going down some equally absurd path.
Intentionally mixing categories.
Guns are inanimate objects that are neither moral or immoral.
Ideologies do have moral aspects.
This would be like trying to argue that Nazism isn't necessarily bad because not all guns are bad.
I know you know better.
You think you have some valid idea, but the very launching point of your argument is a falsehood... resulting from either a desire to dumb-it-down or just plain ignorance of the war.
Get serious. Wake the hell up.
So, Mohammed, the founder, role model, perfect ideal, and "Prophet" of your ideology would have condemned terrorism? Please correct us ignorant Islamophobes if we are so mistaken. Show us how peaceful true Islam is.
Or just go back to leaning hard on the No True Scotsman/Muslim fallacy.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-20-16, 17:50
Islam hasn't split the religion from other aspects of life- how to run a society and govt. Islam may be full of great ideas on how to run a society, but until they split those off from the religious basis that is an absolute no-go in the West. How Progressives can be all for bringing in more muslims while they want to get rid of white males is a complete mystery on the face of it. You would think that they would pitch a major bitch- all this for people with inherent views far more antithetical to Progressive's core values.
Kev is a Putin-phile who thinks the "Party of God" is secular. He uses 'secular' like chemical companies use the word 'green' or 'sustainable'. Yes, the Sunni Wahhabists are the greater evil- just as Hitler was the greater evil than Stalin.
The ME is full of shit heads who want to kill and die in the name of their flavor of God. Till they end up whacking the crap out of each other until they bleed themselves be pacifist enough to stop it this will go on. Propping up 'secular' strong men will just keep punting this problem down the road.
Dubai is an awesome place to hang out. I know some entrepreneurs there that I would love to send my son to do a summer internship there. But I couldn't help but notice that they all have 'escape plans' that they can bolt to. Now, most anyone there isn't a natural born citizen so they naturally have someplace else to go, but nothing there seems to have deep roots..
Kinda hoping this one could be about the event itself, rather than another dozen pages of endless diatribes about islam that usually end up in a lock?
That's a sobering point.
At the end of the day, innocent civilians are dead. Their family and loved ones likely have nothing to bury.
All due to the actions of mean spirited rogues who will use and abuse any philosophy, theology, or ideology as an excuse to kill the unarmed and uninvolved.
Regardless of our biases, there it is.
And, it kinda trivializes the loss to get hung up on pettiness.
If it were someone I loved on that plane, I'd be teetotaling pissed.
It's rogues and murderers restricting free people from travel. They are essentially saying "If you go X or you do Y, we murder you".
That's the point. Otherwise I don't care what beliefs they claim to have.
Kinda hoping this one could be about the event itself, rather than another dozen pages of endless diatribes about islam that usually end up in a lock?
Thank you.
I thought for sure the Egypt Air crash was going to be terrorism, but now I'm not so sure. Still early, and I'm not sure we'll ever know.
Outlander Systems
05-21-16, 09:32
The potential for an electrical fire being the cause of the crash are overblown.
So far, no plausible explanations have been brought to light...
dwhitehorne
05-21-16, 09:56
The potential for an electrical fire being the cause of the crash are overblown.
That's because we have an entire segment of society and lots of them are in the media that are hoping this is not another terrorist attack. When the Egyptian President brought up terrorism in the first few hours, the media has been looking to push another explaination. David
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-21-16, 12:59
I hope it isn't another terrorist attack. I'll take a MX issue over a jihad issue anyday. Wishing it isn't a jihad issue, that is different. We can engineer fixes pretty quick for bad wiring re-wiring people's heads is a lot tougher.
The potential for an electrical fire being the cause of the crash are overblown.
So far, no plausible explanations have been brought to light...
Multiple signs indicating not a big explosion. But presence of smoke alarms activating do not rule out foul play.
Outlander Systems
05-21-16, 16:21
Roger that.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/egyptair-crash---smoke-detected-inside-the-aircraft-cabin-as-sea/#update-20160521-1912
EgyptAir flight MS804 crashed with 56 passengers and 10 crew on board
All passengers, including British geologist Richard Osman, feared dead
Who are the victims? What we know so far
'Smoke detected inside the aircraft cabin'
Experts say flight data 'seems to point towards a bomb'
Body parts and suitcases from the missing flight found
EgyptAir flight MS804 disappears: everything we know
Multiple signs indicating not a big explosion. But presence of smoke alarms activating do not rule out foul play.
The potential for an electrical fire being the cause of the crash are overblown.
Swiss Air 111 had an electrical fire in the in flight entertainment system and it crashed in like 1000 ft of water. By the time anybody realized what was going on, it was way to late to do anything about it. Lots of places you simply cant put a fire extinguisher on an airplane. There are lots of area's in the plane I fly that if there is a fire we cant put extinguishing agent on it. If I had an avionics fire its under the cockpit floor, yet I cant very easily put agent(halon) on it and shit would go real bad real quick.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-21-16, 23:48
I'll go with multiple peroxide bombs. They are unreliable, and the first one fizzled and caused smoke, but the back up ones finished off the plane. Guy was in front lav. Pure guess, but he, until we get the black box, who knows.
From the talking heads:
No flash detected from satellite== unlikely high explosives enough to cause inflight disintegration
Fuel detected on water == Unlikely big boom, no fireball (again, high explosives unlikely)
Small debris field == Plane mostly intact when it hit (no big boom)
So I'm betting smaller devices, incendiary, etc.
Because we are all experts in this stuff now. Though I'd still not rule out some kid tried to use his iphone in flight, you know how dangerous that is!
I wouldn't rule out mechanical failure. The Egyptians didn't maintain the Pyramids all that well. An Airbus is significantly more complex.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-22-16, 20:04
We're the last radio transmissions released? Some were but I thought they weren't the very last ones...
I wouldn't rule out mechanical failure. The Egyptians didn't maintain the Pyramids all that well. An Airbus is significantly more complex.
Actually the pyramids are doing pretty good given their age. Not many places have things still standing from 4,500 years ago. The Colosseum is about half as old and it's a mess. I suspect 4,500 years from now the pyramids will be the only thing still standing from our time.
We're the last radio transmissions released? Some were but I thought they weren't the very last ones...
dont matter. until they get the CVR(voice recorder) and DFDR(flight data recorder) anything released is recorded only from the ATC side.
I dont know about how they do things over there, but in the USA the CVR recordings are never released as audio, only as a transcript.
My guess is once the boxes are found they will be flown to Washington DC for the NTSB to analyze, if they are asked that is. NTSB has the best technology and people in the world to analyze both boxes.
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