View Full Version : Special Forces Current M4 RAS or RIS?
Does anybody know which RAS or RIS the various Special Forces are currently using? The Knight's URX II looks good. Is anyone actually using it?
I've read everything about the LaRue and Daniel Defense versions here on the forum, but I am curious what our military is actually using these days and how it compares?
Thanks.
Current SOCOM issue rail is the Daniel Defense RIS II, but the KAC variants are all over the place in the system, and they are both outstanding rail choices that are in use with out Armed Forces. Both companies have several different MIL contracts that they are supplying.
I am confused after looking at the DD website. Please post a link to the RIS that Special Forces are most recently using on their 14.5" M4s. SOCOM RIS II? Thanks again.
In theory it is the DD RISII
I have yet to see one in theatre - I have seen KAC URXII's - and a lot of Larue rails -- however the KAC M4RAS is still the most ubiquous.
How are we supposed to copy their guns when they keep changing the standard? :D
That DD RIS II looks heavy as heck.
I have yet to see one in theatre - I have seen KAC URXII's - and a lot of Larue rails -- however the KAC M4RAS is still the most ubiquous.
The ODA that I recently attended a class with were all running the M4 RAS.
usaffarmer
08-27-08, 00:36
That DD RIS II looks heavy as heck.
they might look that way but are very light!
im running the Lite rail 14 and they are about 14oz thats it.
I am confused after looking at the DD website. Please post a link to the RIS that Special Forces are most recently using on their 14.5" M4s. SOCOM RIS II? Thanks again.
What part of the website confuses you?
What part of the website confuses you?
The web site itself isn't confusing. It is confusing when people use generic terms to describe a rail fore-end. The names all sound the same to the uninitiated. I'm trying to catch up.
It's my ignorance that is the problem. The terminology sounds generic rather than specific to me when in reality, for those in the know, it makes sense.
Basically, my goal is to sell my Bushmaster (Heavy barrel 16". Lesson learned that the heavy barrel is too front heavy. Also, I have a small Colt handgun collection, so I want to get a Colt AR/M4 to fit in with the Colt collection).
I'll then buy a Colt 6920 and build it out to look as much like a Special Forces M4 as possible. From what I've read, it seems that Spec Forces are moving towards shorter barrels, no doubt due to the high percentage of CQB engagements they encounter. However, I plan to to stick with a 16" barrel to avoid NFA issues. I would like to base my gun on a Special Forces issue 14.5" M4.
So, I'd like to know what Spec Ops are currently using. I realize that it depends on the mission (hence the modularity of the SOPMOD), personal preference, and branch of service, etc.
1. Which rail?
2. Which front and rear BUIS? Are they removing the standard front sight now and going with the longer rail?
3. Which optic?
4. Which folding stock?
Thanks again for everyone's help with this.
The Archangel
08-27-08, 13:40
1. Which rail?
2. Which front and rear BUIS? Are they removing the standard front sight now and going with the longer rail?
3. Which optic?
4. Which folding stock?
Thanks again for everyone's help with this.
Last time I checked my weapon out of the amory (Dec 07) my M4 was still had the M4 profile and KAC RAS.
HQ finally got in some M4's with SOCOM profiled barrels and same KAC RAS.
The ODA's received HK416 10.5" uppers to replace the LMT uppers that we used in theater.
Have not seen any DD RIS II yet, but we're NG so we don't get Federal Funding until we mobilize for deployments. That's when we get all sorts of new toys and gadgets. ;)
Asking what SF guys are using is pretty hard to do. The ODA that we had in class, the only things that their rifles had in common (beyond the fact they were M4A1s) was the KAC RAS, and standard carbine stocks/front sights.
They had a mix of rear sights, and optics:
Aimpoint M2 (M68CCO)
Aimpoint T1
Eotech
ACOG (two different models IIRC)
What does the SOCOM barrel profile look like? When you say KAC RAS do you mean the 7" short one that has been around for years?
The Archangel
08-27-08, 13:50
Asking what SF guys are using is pretty hard to do. The ODA that we had in class, the only things that their rifles had in common (beyond the fact they were M4A1s) was the KAC RAS, and standard carbine stocks/front sights.
They had a mix of rear sights, and optics:
Aimpoint M2 (M68CCO)
Aimpoint T1
Eotech
ACOG (two different models IIRC)
+1
We have a lot of latitude on what we can put on our cold-fusion plasma rifles and most of the guys buy their own optics. Most of the boys haven't seen a T-1 and I get a lot of oooohs and aaaahs when they see mine. A lot of the have EOTechs and I try to educate and sway them over to the Aimpoint camp. At the end of the day, it ain't about the gear, it's about the training, the mindset and being able to use them effectively within a team and make it run like a single well-oiled machine.
rljatl, not to be rude brother but I'm at work so I don't have a lot of time to Google it and post it here for you, but you can find the answer by going to Google for yourself.
Yes the KAS RAS is the 7" is the same two-piece rail system that has been around for years.
Ok, I think I figured it out. The SOCOM barrel is basically the same as the M4 barrel except that it is heavier under the hand guard/rail. Right?
+1
We have a lot of latitude on what we can put on our cold-fusion plasma rifles and most of the guys buy their own optics.
Couple buddies in 19th shocked me when I found out they bought their own optics.
A guy I know---an E-7, 18D---says when his company deploys next time they have 10.5" uppers with DD Lite rails (the ones with the 6 screws at the back) and Magpul CTR stocks. Optics are up to the individual. He didn't know what the make of the barrels were (yes, I asked). He emphasized that these were only for his company, not all of 5th Group.
So, as someone previously mentioned, you WILL find a good deal of variation in what these guys carry.
Here's something that I found that might help out
http://www.zombiecrisis.org/siteimages/weapons/m42large.jpg
I have a Knight's version of this taped to the wall in front of me. According to this the RIS, the 300m BUIS, the forward pistol grip, and sound suppressor w/ muzzle compensator are the items Knight's provide to the SOPMOD Kit. Now this may be old, out of date, things may have changed and there definitely is personal preference so don't quote me on this.
A guy I know---an E-7, 18D---says when his company deploys next time they have 10.5" uppers with DD Lite rails (the ones with the 6 screws at the back) and Magpul CTR stocks.
The MK18 style upper seems to be replacing the M4 uppers for a lot of SOCOM.
Picture is of a 1st Group buddy from last year, note the CTR in use.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/P4050001%20900%20WEVO%20Stick.jpg
Here's something that I found that might help out
Thats the block one issue (older variant), with block II being in use, or being transitioned to currently. There are similar charts out showing RIS II equipment, and a power point presentation out there as well.
RogerinTPA
08-28-08, 17:57
Here's a link that may be of interest...
http://www.elcan.com/ELCAN_News/Bulletins/070403_SOCOM.php
The correct answer to the OPs question in the most formal and official way is the KAC RIS.
Thats the block one issue (older variant), with block II being in use, or being transitioned to currently. There are similar charts out showing RIS II equipment, and a power point presentation out there as well.
Yeah, the fact that the chart lists the PEQ-2 as the MFAL device means it's pretty old. I recall seeing 3 distinct different forend rails on the weapons of the meat-eaters in different areas of Anbar, none of which were the standard KAC M4 setups. It's mixed like M&Ms in a bag out there.
Is there a good or bad consensus regarding the KAC URX II? How does it compare to the LaRue and DD rails?
Is there a good or bad consensus regarding the KAC URX II? How does it compare to the LaRue and DD rails?
KAC and DD have MIL contracts.
KAC and DD have MIL contracts.
Can you tell me the exact civilian name/part number used on the 14.5" M4? Thanks.
Can you tell me the exact civilian name/part number used on the 14.5" M4? Thanks.
The KAC RIS is used on the M4A1 on the SOPMOD kit.
The KAC RAS is used on the M4 in the MWS kit.
The DD RISII will be the next rail in the SOPMOD kit.
IroquoisSnakePlissken
08-30-08, 23:23
Anything around the 10.5" length. Shorties are pretty popular. As are .45s, Coyote Tan, and EOTech.
Gangsta' Grips are pretty much up to the individual soldier's preference.
The general consensus is that M9s suck, Armor-piercing rounds are worthless, and something shorter than the M4 is preferred.
Thanks very much Scottryan and IroquoisSnakePlissken. That's exactly the info I need.
IroquoisSnakePlissken
08-31-08, 11:02
No problem. The studs in SF are diggin' the SBRs.
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