View Full Version : Remember (Nazi hunter film)
Moose-Knuckle
05-28-16, 04:00
As a cinephile the cast of this film really caught my attention.
Christopher Plummer
Martin Landau
Jürgen Prochnow
Bruno Ganz
The subject matter has always been a great interest of mine. This film was a total sleeper, heard nothing about it and just happened upon it . . . it is phenomenal. The interviews in the special features are worth the price of admission alone. Jürgen Prochnow was born in Berlin in '41 and grew up in post WWII Berlin as did Bruno Ganz to hear their stories was sobering. There is a gun store scene in the film and they actually had a nice selection, reminded me of Terminator and Commando lol. The main character even settled on a Gen II G17 to dispatch justice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFxXCoprNqc
Eurodriver
05-28-16, 04:21
Best 2 minute trailer I've ever seen. Thanks for sharing MooseyWoosey. I'm going to watch that tonight.
ETA: Damnit - no one read the plot. It has an excellent ending and I just ruined it...
Wow. That looks like a good one. Definitely worth a watch. Thanks for the tip.
Reminds me a bit of "Apt Pupil". Another good one.
Reminds me a little bit of the film "the boys from Brazil" with Lawrence Olivier and Gregory peck.
Nazi Hunting has always been a curious topic for me.
If you were really smart, the US or Soviets would shanghai you into building up rockets.
If you were a hardcore badass, the US or French quietly renamed you and put you in some kinda paratrooper/meat eater job in the Army.
If you were just some political stooge who did nothing but hold a position, kiss ass, launder money, and somehow escaped, people dedicated their lives into going after you.
Either way, I maintain that pretty much all the worthwhile Germans were stolen and the duds greased.
And now....ugh...Greens Party is a thing.
I could be way, way off but that was an interesting time.
I saw Apt Pupil and it was, no joke, too homoerotic for me.
Meh Europe 20 years ago was worth seeing, but now bleh. Seriously, bleh.
People chump on "Messicans", but with all the wacky shit going on in Europe; it doesn't seem so bad.
You know it seems cliche but this really is the best country ever.
Kind of tangential, but really maybe its because I'm in the middle of an XM16E1 clone build, or We Were Soldiers was on the other day, or because Memorial Day weekend but seeing that clip of this movie I'm probably not going to watch just really makes me glad I live here
That all came out of nowhere but I just feel better verbalizing it
Eurodriver
05-28-16, 18:30
Nazi Hunting has always been a curious topic for me.
If you were really smart, the US or Soviets would shanghai you into building up rockets.
If you were a hardcore badass, the US or French quietly renamed you and put you in some kinda paratrooper/meat eater job in the Army.
If you were just some political stooge who did nothing but hold a position, kiss ass, launder money, and somehow escaped, people dedicated their lives into going after you.
Either way, I maintain that pretty much all the worthwhile Germans were stolen and the duds greased.
That is an amazing takeaway. Werner Von Braun and Adolf Eichmann certainly fit those criteria
However, I'd argue that there were quite a few camp guards that got whacked by the mossad who did more than "political stoogery".
ETA: I watched the film Remember today. Great movie, and the ending is a bitch.
That is an amazing takeaway. Werner Von Braun and Adolf Eichmann certainly fit those criteria
However, I'd argue that there were quite a few camp guards that got whacked by the mossad who did more than "political stoogery".
ETA: I watched the film Remember today. Great movie, and the ending is a bitch.
We should remember that Werner became a nazi simply because he wanted to build rockets. He used slave labor because that was the work force provided to him. Not to excuse any of that, but Albert Speer was a more ardent Nazi than Von Braun.
And the one that got away was definitely Mengele, lived mostly in the open and died of natural causes. If ever there was anyone who should have been hunted down and made accountable it was Mengele, by comparison Eichmann was a paper pusher.
I'll definitely watch this. A lot of terrible evil doers went free after WWII, Germans in Souh Americ, and Japs in, well, Japan. It's a shame hat more countries did not pursue sometthing similar to Israel's Nazi hunting program.
I'll definitely watch this. A lot of terrible evil doers went free after WWII, Germans in Souh Americ, and Japs in, well, Japan. It's a shame hat more countries did not pursue sometthing similar to Israel's Nazi hunting program.
To some extent, they did. A lot of "random kidnappings" of Japanese into Korea and China. Plus again, all the 'worthwhile' Japanese were given immunity and taken in.
It's been 70 odd years and still no real love lost.
The last 70 odd years have been dedicated to keeping them down and militarily weakened.
When Germans were to do the NATO thing in the Balkans, people got leery because of German troops going into Eastern Europe.
I'll definitely watch this. A lot of terrible evil doers went free after WWII, Germans in Souh Americ, and Japs in, well, Japan. It's a shame hat more countries did not pursue sometthing similar to Israel's Nazi hunting program.
Or worse, like when the US specifically gives them immunity from prosecution for war crimes in exchange for their data. When it comes to how we dealt with Unit 731, it's hard to see who the good guys were. Then there was the farce that we participated in where we agreed Hirohito knew nothing about Japanese war crimes and was not directly involved in the war.
MountainRaven
05-29-16, 01:13
To some extent, they did. A lot of "random kidnappings" of Japanese into Korea and China. Plus again, all the 'worthwhile' Japanese were given immunity and taken in.
It's been 70 odd years and still no real love lost.
The last 70 odd years have been dedicated to keeping them down and militarily weakened.
When Germans were to do the NATO thing in the Balkans, people got leery because of German troops going into Eastern Europe.
Most of those random kidnappings were of people the Norks wanted to train their spies to infiltrate into Japan (same things, same purpose with South Koreans, too - and no reason to suspect the Norks didn't do the same with the Chinese) - or they were people Kim Il-sung or Kim Jung-il wanted for their personal people zoos.
And nobody was more leery of putting German soldiers into combat than Germany: The very idea of German troops engaged in combat outside of Germany seems to cause the entire German nation to suffer a massive PTSD-induced flashback, never mind the actual act of putting such troops into combat.
Or worse, like when the US specifically gives them immunity from prosecution for war crimes in exchange for their data. When it comes to how we dealt with Unit 731, it's hard to see who the good guys were. Then there was the farce that we participated in where we agreed Hirohito knew nothing about Japanese war crimes and was not directly involved in the war.
That's the price we paid to keep Japan whole and - more importantly (at the time, anyway) - firmly away from the Soviets.
That's the price we paid to keep Japan whole and - more importantly (at the time, anyway) - firmly away from the Soviets.
I understand we got a "conditional" unconditional surrender. And I could probably accept the Hirohito charade given the big picture, but immunity for everyone at Unit 731 and similar omissions in the prosecution of Japanese war criminals is a bit too much to accept.
And of course the fact that our President right now is in Hiroshima offering everything just short of an official apology for a war THEY started just isn't sitting well right now. Every President after Truman should have gone to Hiroshima to condemn the Japanese for starting the Pacific war.
Moose-Knuckle
05-29-16, 04:44
With Barry continuing his American apology tour in Vietnam and Japan this month I was glad to hear two different national radio hosts read allowed on their shows in graphic detail the war crimes of Imperial Japan and Unit 731, other lesser known units just like 731, and the rape of Nanking. I saw photos years ago of Japanese soldiers laughing "playing a game" where they would throw Chinese infants up in the air and impale them on their mounted bayonets. Then there are the "comfort wives". The Japanese literally got away with torture and murder. I heard a gentlemen call into one of these shows who's father was a Marine in the Pacific theater. He fought and survived the Guadalcanal campaign, the battle of Saipan, and the battle of Iwo Jima. His father told him he didn't get a scratch in any of those but when they were mustering for the invasion of Japan he knew he would die. He knew this based on how the Japanese had fought on all those places that were not their homeland and how dirty they had to get to beat the sons-of-bitches hopping islands. Even old women in Japan were practicing with bamboo spears to kill USGIs. Everyone of them would have fought and died to the last person standing, that was their culture. It took two nukes to break that.
But yeah the whole hunting Nazis thing is interesting. Stalin maintained to the day he died that Hitler escaped. DNA testing of the skull pieces that were supposedly his came back as a female's DNA. Who knows? Always wanted to know what happened to General Dr.-Ing. Hans Friedrich Karl Franz Kammler, he was the SS General over advanced weapon projects and purportedly escaped in one of the few ME323's, Germany's largest aircraft. I personally think he was brought to the US via Operation Paperclip and given a new identity.
I'll have to check out Apt Pupil and The Boys from Brazil as I haven't seen them.
Some of my other favorite movies in this genre are . . .
Marathon Man (1976) starring Dustin Hoffman, Laurence Olivier, Roy Scheider, and William Devane. Another outstanding cast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE5iL1NleM4
Moose-Knuckle
05-29-16, 04:44
The Debt (2010) starring yet another amazing cast; Helen Mirren, Tom Wilkinson, Ciarán Hinds, Jessica Chastain, Marton Csokas, and Sam Worthington.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnPV_MLgiIc
Pretty sure Hitler died in the Fuhrer bunker.
2pac, however, is alive and well and chilling in Cuba. It was all in 7 Day Theory and Makaveli.
Hitler escaped...even the FBI believed it.
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Hitler escaped...even the FBI believed it.
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Assuming Hitler survived, do you really think he was just chilling in South America with all kinds of Argie birds, drinking, growing his hair long and living on a love and music like a Beatnik?
No, he lived in the Patagonia German region, and he did just that.
Chillaxed.....
There is just so much fluff and puff about him escaping that I find it credible but still skeptical sometimes.
But then again, so much of WWII is still secret, look at the UK MOD , they still have WWII documents not to be opened until 2045.
Why?
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But then again, so much of WWII is still secret, look at the UK MOD , they still have WWII documents not to be opened until 2045.
Why?
I would guess because their kids would be dead by that date and not think less of dear old dad and mum over the things they did.
No, he lived in the Patagonia German region, and he did just that.
Chillaxed.....
There is just so much fluff and puff about him escaping that I find it credible but still skeptical sometimes.
But then again, so much of WWII is still secret, look at the UK MOD , they still have WWII documents not to be opened until 2045.
Why?
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Wow, your tin foil hat is way too tight.
I prefer to say that I am comfortable having an open mind about history.
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I prefer to say that I am comfortable having an open mind about history.
Open mind is one thing. Brains spilling out all over the floor with conspiracy theories...that's quite another.
Open mind is one thing. Brains spilling out all over the floor with conspiracy theories...that's quite another.
I dunno.
I still think 8 years of Obama was a bad college prank that just went too far.
I saw the movie, 'Remember.' It was a little slow starting out, but gets better at the end. It's worth watching. The ending has a twist that is hard to see coming.
My favorite movie about the Jewish movement against anti-semitism was the film with Joe Mantegna, 'Homicide' by David Mamet creator of the show 'The Unit.'
Link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102048/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_112
As for the Germans fleeing after the war, South America is chalk full of Germans, particularly Argentina, Bolivia, and Chile.
They even had their own town in Argentina.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4170977/Did-Nazi-Adolf-Hitler-live-to-old-age-in-Bariloche-Argentina.html
MountainRaven
05-29-16, 13:38
I imagine that, in the unlikely event that Hitler did survive the Second World War, that he didn't survive for long. I think that Mossad, the CIA, and the NKVD/KGB would have seen to that.
Therr are nazis still missing ....
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPTjWcgRJRs&app=desktop
Seems legit....
https://goo.gl/images/sb2SDu
Assuming Hitler survived, do you really think he was just chilling in South America with all kinds of Argie birds, drinking, growing his hair long and living on a love and music like a Beatnik?
http://i65.tinypic.com/2qcmgbp.jpg
No, he lived in the Patagonia German region, and he did just that.
Chillaxed.....
There is just so much fluff and puff about him escaping that I find it credible but still skeptical sometimes.
But then again, so much of WWII is still secret, look at the UK MOD , they still have WWII documents not to be opened until 2045.
Why?
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Obviously because the UK intends to continue to use their WWII "still classified" methods, technology and tactics until well into the 21rst century. I thought everyone knew that.
Some historians speculate that it is actually gonna talk about commando raids and spies within the inner circles of the 3rd reich.
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I think it would be more about some shifty money deals and everyone easily affected would be long dead and the current heirs would be untouchable.
In reality, nobody cares about daring commando raids, assassinations, or espionage.
Money. Always money. Money. Money. Money.
Vince Neill said it best "if you're rich enough you can get away with anything".
Had Hitler not pissed off the world, He likely would've never had to worry about D Day.
People cared as much about Jews and Chinese as they did about the Native Americans or Africans.
But in revisionist history, they can make kids believe anything.
Gold, Guns, or Grain. That's all anybody cares about.
In reality, nobody cares about daring commando raids, assassinations, or espionage.
Money. Always money. Money. Money. Money.
But in revisionist history, they can make kids believe anything.
I'm sure you've seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GixcYrEx3HA
Catch the spelling errors in the captions.
eightmillimeter
05-29-16, 23:30
Just watched it. Absolutely awesome. Thanks for the heads up.
Hunting Hitler which was on the History Channel did some pretty decent work in showing all the flaws with the Hitler died in the bunker theory. I learned quite a bit even though I spent many years in Germany and traveled to Berlin and other places.
Connecting the dots to Spain and the extensive Nazi network that was worldwide was pretty fascinating.
Hunting Hitler which was on the History Channel did some pretty decent work in showing all the flaws with the Hitler died in the bunker theory.
Available on NetFlix: http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Hunting-Hitler/70114376
Hunting Hitler which was on the History Channel did some pretty decent work in showing all the flaws with the Hitler died in the bunker theory. I learned quite a bit even though I spent many years in Germany and traveled to Berlin and other places.
Connecting the dots to Spain and the extensive Nazi network that was worldwide was pretty fascinating.
So, what was your take away after viewing? Pretty sure he died in the bunker or pretty sure he escaped?
Lessay Hitler survived. No mutants. No Leather clad Nazi Chicks. No 4th Reich in exile.
Let's say he, at some point, accepted that he was about to lose the war and planned ahead.
Where would he go? It doesn't seem like he spoke a second language. Some middle aged dude shows up with money and no accountability for the last 13 years. Like he didn't leave Europe.
If they are willing to track down Gefreiter Fritz Nazimeyer who was just the gate guard and snatch him out of bed at age 95....how come they didn't find Hitler.
People like that don't just say "man, I dodged a bullet" and lay low.
Plus he had Parkinsons. Even if he got out, he was likely double crossed.
Interesting.
I still, however, maintain that Tupac is alive in Cuba
Lessay Hitler survived. No mutants. No Leather clad Nazi Chicks. No 4th Reich in exile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajqWJEVKMLc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajqWJEVKMLc
I'm sorry, all I heard was "Hail Hydra" over and over again.
Moose-Knuckle
05-30-16, 13:28
No, he lived in the Patagonia German region, and he did just that.
Chillaxed.....
There is just so much fluff and puff about him escaping that I find it credible but still skeptical sometimes.
But then again, so much of WWII is still secret, look at the UK MOD , they still have WWII documents not to be opened until 2045.
Why?
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UK MOD released most of their UFO stuff a couple of years ago. Pretty interesting . . .
The Vatican Secret Archives seals all docs until everyone that is connected to them is dead.
I have a feeling that one day it will be revealed the Nazis that were in the Royal Family (no not most of them), Wall Streets financial backing of the Third Reich, Hitler got away, etc.
There are forty four uncounted for Nazi U-Boats. Some of which were probably sent to the bottom in actions but me thinks some made it to South America and other parts unknown filled with looted treasure.
I think Hitler died of old age in some inconspicuous place right in plain view.
A US intelligence photo handout of how Hitler might disguise himself from 1944:
https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7755/27322558326_280ebc13c5_b.jpg
My theory is that he gave up the nukes and rockets for amnesty.
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In that last picture, he looks like Stallone.
And giving up nukes and rockets for a mansion in California wouldn't be so bad.
I'd make that deal too. I'd just chill, ride motorbikes, expand my mind, go to some NOFX concerts.
MountainRaven
05-30-16, 14:42
It isn't obvious what happened to Hitler?
His old buddy Stalin gave him a new start. Obviously, he had to have some plastic surgery and Nazi super-science has allowed him to age extremely gracefully, but still. There he is, right in front of us the whole time.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Putin_with_flag_of_Russia.jpg
Well we have to look at it objectively. It's easy to say he died. It's a lot more difficult to offer substantial prove that he did. According to the review of docs (and I have little doubt that the FBI and others looked) there was not one reliable witness who saw his body. In fact, they reported what was seen. Bodies wrapped in sheets and doused with gas.
Forensic examination has shown that the skull the Russians were proud of most likely was that of a female. If other high ranking Nazi's were able to escape and live in South America (where many were sympathetic to their cause) then I don't know why it is far fetched to think he could have survived at least briefly after the war.
Morality isn't always our strong point. Just think that as we participated in the Nuremberg Trials we also had Operation Paperclip and we had no issue with allowing some nasty people into the U.S under the umbrella of national security.
Remember that the whole Nazi story has roots everywhere to include the Royal family. Here's an interesting story from a while back in The Daily Mail. Some Nazi's were in fact known to South American gov't but were allowed to hide away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117093/Secret-files-reveal-9-000-Nazi-war-criminals-fled-South-America-WWII.html
So, what was your take away after viewing? Pretty sure he died in the bunker or pretty sure he escaped?
Available on NetFlix: http://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/Hunting-Hitler/70114376
Dammit.... it's not on streaming
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Well we have to look at it objectively. It's easy to say he died. It's a lot more difficult to offer substantial prove that he did. According to the review of docs (and I have little doubt that the FBI and others looked) there was not one reliable witness who saw his body. In fact, they reported what was seen. Bodies wrapped in sheets and doused with gas.
Forensic examination has shown that the skull the Russians were proud of most likely was that of a female. If other high ranking Nazi's were able to escape and live in South America (where many were sympathetic to their cause) then I don't know why it is far fetched to think he could have survived at least briefly after the war.
Morality isn't always our strong point. Just think that as we participated in the Nuremberg Trials we also had Operation Paperclip and we had no issue with allowing some nasty people into the U.S under the umbrella of national security.
Remember that the whole Nazi story has roots everywhere to include the Royal family. Here's an interesting story from a while back in The Daily Mail. Some Nazi's were in fact known to South American gov't but were allowed to hide away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117093/Secret-files-reveal-9-000-Nazi-war-criminals-fled-South-America-WWII.html
Mengele didn't even have to hide. He even met his kid in Switzerland for ski trips after the war.
The problem with "what happened to Hitler" is that it happened with the Russians. It is obvious from comparing post cold war documents with pre cold war documents that we didn't get the real story in 1945 and probably don't have the 100% real story today.
Guys like Mengele and Eichmann were able to get out because they weren't Hitler, Goering or Himmler. None of those three stood a chance of getting out. Goering thought he'd be good to go because he wasn't SS, Himmler tried to cut a last hour deal but didn't have enough to offer to save his life even though he offered to stop running the death camps saving thousands as part of a "deal."
There were no deals for Hitler, he had nothing to offer. Plenty of high ups willing to tell everyone where the gold, technology and scientists were hidden. Also there was no way Stalin was going to "ok" a Hitler deal, Hitler was correct that Stalin would have marched him down the street like a war trophy. Even Zhukov had times of genuine concern that Stalin might exile or even execute him. I can't imagine any scenario where Stalin let Hitler live.
More importantly, Hitler couldn't imagine any scenario where Stalin let him live and he knew what he was likely to do if the roles were reversed. One only needs to remember what Hitler did to the conspirators who tried to assassinate him at the Wolf's Lair. For that reason alone I don't think Hitler made it out of the bunker alive.
Another piece of evidence is that some people did escape from the Bunker, I don't think this would have been possible if Hitler was still alive. He just didn't strike me as a "see if you can save yourself" kind of guy. Even when the end was obvious, he killed Eva Braun's brother in law for being AWOL.
Personally I think he and Eva killed themselves and they probably were burned. But I think the Russians also got some "decoy" bodies and Hitler and Eva were buried someplace that we still don't know about.
I never said that Hitler had anything to offer or that there were deals made. But, he surrounded himself with some pretty loyal people. Had the Russians really found the bodies, I think they would have used it for maximum propaganda value and yet they didn't.
We'll probably never know the truth, just like we won't fully comprehend American and other interests that had dealings with the Nazi's as the war raged on, or how JFK was assassinated by a screwball.
Mengele didn't even have to hide. He even met his kid in Switzerland for ski trips after the war.
The problem with "what happened to Hitler" is that it happened with the Russians. It is obvious from comparing post cold war documents with pre cold war documents that we didn't get the real story in 1945 and probably don't have the 100% real story today.
Guys like Mengele and Eichmann were able to get out because they weren't Hitler, Goering or Himmler. None of those three stood a chance of getting out. Goering thought he'd be good to go because he wasn't SS, Himmler tried to cut a last hour deal but didn't have enough to offer to save his life even though he offered to stop running the death camps saving thousands as part of a "deal."
There were no deals for Hitler, he had nothing to offer. Plenty of high ups willing to tell everyone where the gold, technology and scientists were hidden. Also there was no way Stalin was going to "ok" a Hitler deal, Hitler was correct that Stalin would have marched him down the street like a war trophy. Even Zhukov had times of genuine concern that Stalin might exile or even execute him. I can't imagine any scenario where Stalin let Hitler live.
More importantly, Hitler couldn't imagine any scenario where Stalin let him live and he knew what he was likely to do if the roles were reversed. One only needs to remember what Hitler did to the conspirators who tried to assassinate him at the Wolf's Lair. For that reason alone I don't think Hitler made it out of the bunker alive.
Another piece of evidence is that some people did escape from the Bunker, I don't think this would have been possible if Hitler was still alive. He just didn't strike me as a "see if you can save yourself" kind of guy. Even when the end was obvious, he killed Eva Braun's brother in law for being AWOL.
Personally I think he and Eva killed themselves and they probably were burned. But I think the Russians also got some "decoy" bodies and Hitler and Eva were buried someplace that we still don't know about.
Hey, thanks for the response.
I don't know if many of you have read a lot of what WEB Griffin/William Butterworth writes, but his novels closely follow the historical story line. His 'Honor Bound' storyline follows the events in South America - Argentina - and the end of the war is Europe and the relationship between the Allies and Gehlen.
Never read anything by WEB Griffin but read that Devil's Guard book.
I was entertained.
SeriousStudent
05-30-16, 23:07
Hey, thanks for the response.
I don't know if many of you have read a lot of what WEB Griffin/William Butterworth writes, but his novels closely follow the historical story line. His 'Honor Bound' storyline follows the events in South America - Argentina - and the end of the war is Europe and the relationship between the Allies and Gehlen.
I have read those books.
I honestly think the issue with the British docs remaining classified probably relate to some folks considering surrender in WWII. It would be embarrassing.
I don't have any proof on that, just trying to imagine what would require a 100-year silence.
I never said that Hitler had anything to offer or that there were deals made. But, he surrounded himself with some pretty loyal people. Had the Russians really found the bodies, I think they would have used it for maximum propaganda value and yet they didn't.
We'll probably never know the truth, just like we won't fully comprehend American and other interests that had dealings with the Nazi's as the war raged on, or how JFK was assassinated by a screwball.
I agree. And that is why I noted that I don't believe the Russians ever found the bodies. I think those "very loyal" people probably hid the bodies very well and provided decoys.
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