P7M8/MKE Z-5P trade

[MountainRaven]

Usually I don't like to see these sorts of posts, but I guess I can self-hate for a little bit.

Have a buddy who wants to acquire my Zenith MKE Z-5P ("MP5K-PDW" pistol).*

He has an H&K P7M8 that was in pretty good condition, except for what appears to be a big milling mark down the right side of the slide (apparently this was done to remove police markings after the guns were sold back to H&K during the process of refurbishing). I say was because I was present when he acquired it and I helped push him into getting it - but it is no longer in the condition that he bought it in.

At the time he got it, he was working for a local shop that is a certified cerakote applicator, and after putting some rounds down range to ensure function, he detail stripped it, re-parked it, and then cerakoted it. (In a tasteful black color - not some crazy blue and pink shit or anything like that.) However, because of how expensive the pistol is, he says that he can't bring himself to carry it any longer and therefore is wanting to sell it - at the same time I'm wanting to sell my Z-5P.

Now, some years ago, I had bought a P7PSP that was refurbished and brought into the US by H&K and have really regretted selling it ever since. I haven't replaced it because the prices on P7s have been getting pretty ridiculous (or maybe they're just getting to where they should be for the pistols, in any case they're much, much more expensive than the $700-ish I paid for my P7).

So. I ask you this, good fellow M4Carbineers, is this an equitable trade: One refurbed (then refinished) P7M8 plus a couple holsters, four magazines (total), original box and paperwork for a LNIB Zenith Z-5P with all the original goodies?

*Before anybody give me crap about having just bought it - yes, I did, but I bought a Z-5RS not long after and enjoy the full-size RS much more than the K-PDW.

[Firefly]

TAKE THE P7 AND DON'T LOOK BACK!
GET THAT TRADE IN WRITING, NOTARIZED, AND THEN JUST RUN!

Trading my P7 was the single biggest mistake of my life. Seriously.

Didn't shoot it. Wasn't really my "thing" with respect to shooting style, but my life has been of a noticeably lower quality ever since.

I just liked having it and now I wouldn't pay almost two grand for something I paid $500 for....in late 2000s money.

[DaBigBR]

TAKE THE P7 AND DON'T LOOK BACK!
GET THAT TRADE IN WRITING, NOTARIZED, AND THEN JUST RUN!

Trading my P7 was the single biggest mistake of my life. Seriously.

Didn't shoot it. Wasn't really my "thing" with respect to shooting style, but my life has been of a noticeably lower quality ever since.

I just liked having it and now I wouldn't pay almost two grand for something I paid $500 for....in late 2000s money.

I say take the trade, too. P7s have gone up quite a bit.

[ap1220]

If the other party feels like it's an even trade and that he isn't taking a hit, then by all means consider it an equal/fair trade(and then run with it like Firefly said). If your conscience thinks you're getting too much in return, maybe offer a bit of cash and or ammo to put it at ease.

[w3453l]

Also keep in mind that, while not 100% identical, the coming SP5K's will probably have an effect on the MKE MP5 variants. I doubt the MKE's will go up in price when sharing the market with HK's presence.

[specopsscout]

From a purely financial standpoint, your "pistol" cost you twice what his did. That said, I have a P7M13, and it's one of my favorite pistols.

[Kain]

Brother I don't know what to tell you. There is the part of me that says grab the P7M8. I own one, and they are just one of those guns that I love. I mean when I decided to buy my first H&K and a P7M8 came up for a good price, I jumped on it with both feet and while I don't shoot it enough I love them. They just feel right. I still want to add a P7M13 to my collection, and truly want the one a friend of mine has which is marked T&E from H&K. And for what he paid for that one...... I'd double it but he is as much a collector as anyone I have ever met.

The other part of me is flighty because the gun has been refinished and I don't know what it looks like but then if you want it as a shooter that isn't that much of an issue.

All I can say my friend is go with your heart, if the P7 draws you I don't think you are going to lose out, especially if you want one to shoot, if you are looking for something to store as an investment I would say it is a coin toss as to which is going to be worth more.

[MountainRaven]

I'm not sure how much he paid for the P7, because my memory simply isn't that good. I believe he traded for it and part of the trade was a Norinco Uzi that he and I tried to get running (it looked like someone had tried to bubba gunsmith it into an unregistered machine gun, but only succeeded at making it not run very well). It may have been the Uzi and some cash. Again, don't remember.


If the other party feels like it's an even trade and that he isn't taking a hit, then by all means consider it an equal/fair trade(and then run with it like Firefly said). If your conscience thinks you're getting too much in return, maybe offer a bit of cash and or ammo to put it at ease.

Actually, I was more worried that I was going to be getting the short-end of the stick. While I am aware of the fact that P7s are constantly climbing in value, they still seem like $700 guns to me, while the Z-5s are $1500-1700 guns.

I have given this guy enough good deals that I'm not about to feel bad if this trade gives me a gun and goodies worth more than what he gets, though.


Brother I don't know what to tell you. There is the part of me that says grab the P7M8. I own one, and they are just one of those guns that I love. I mean when I decided to buy my first H&K and a P7M8 came up for a good price, I jumped on it with both feet and while I don't shoot it enough I love them. They just feel right. I still want to add a P7M13 to my collection, and truly want the one a friend of mine has which is marked T&E from H&K. And for what he paid for that one...... I'd double it but he is as much a collector as anyone I have ever met.

The other part of me is flighty because the gun has been refinished and I don't know what it looks like but then if you want it as a shooter that isn't that much of an issue.

All I can say my friend is go with your heart, if the P7 draws you I don't think you are going to lose out, especially if you want one to shoot, if you are looking for something to store as an investment I would say it is a coin toss as to which is going to be worth more.

I'm not a collector, I'm a shooter. And I haven't seen the pistol since he refinished it. But he did send me photos and, apart from the ugly milling mark on the right side of the slide - it looks pretty good.

Thanks, guys!

[nitmr26]

So. I ask you this, good fellow M4Carbineers, is this an equitable trade: One refurbed (then refinished) P7M8 plus a couple holsters, four magazines (total), original box and paperwork for a LNIB Zenith Z-5P with all the original goodies?
Monetarily, I would consider that an equitable trade. That being said, if I were in the market for a P7M8, I would pass on this pistol and look for a commercially imported Chantilly or Sterling P7M8 or Arlington P7 that has the original finish.

I think in the long run, the cerakote finish and the mill mark will always be a significant negative when comparing it to other P7s.

If you really want a nice P7, I would sell the Zenith and buy an Arlington, Chantilly, or Sterling (non-warning on the slide) commercial model. If one of those is not within your budget, then I would look for the nicest "A" grade ex-police P7 I could find. I'm not aware of any of the ex-police P7s having a mill mark. To the best of my knowledge, only the ex-police P7M8s had the mill mark.

I have two P7M8s and a P7. My favorite is my "fat-trigger" Chantilly P7M8.

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/q766/nitmr26/IMG_0277.1_zpsmik7lnsc.jpg (http://s1358.photobucket.com/user/nitmr26/media/IMG_0277.1_zpsmik7lnsc.jpg.html)

Good luck with your P7 search.

[MountainRaven]

Got to handle the pistol today and... problem(s).

Two: One is that the bottom and sides of the barrel are covered in some dark rust-looking stuff. I'm guessing it's caked on carbon from lubricating the gas piston.
The second one is that the striker follows the slide every now and again, but only when the slide is locked to the rear. Doesn't so it when the gun is hand cycled, so I presume it wouldn't do it at the range - although it might do it while reloading, necessitating recocking the striker. The gun is dry as a bone, so it might just need lubrication. Maybe?

[nitmr26]

Two: One is that the bottom and sides of the barrel are covered in some dark rust-looking stuff. I'm guessing it's caked on carbon from lubricating the gas piston.
It is my understanding that the gas piston should not be lubricated. Doing so can lead to excess carbon in the gas cylinder that could be very difficult to remove. Did you have a chance to use a scraping tool inside the gas cylinder?


The second one is that the striker follows the slide every now and again, but only when the slide is locked to the rear...
I don't have any experience with that issue, but you can easily remove the striker from the slide to inspect and clean it. After insuring the weapon is clear, partially squeeze the cocking lever until the back of the striker is just below the striker bushing. Rotate the bushing 90 degrees clockwise, and the striker assembly will come right out.

I would recommend that you give James at Teufeslhund Tactical a call. He's a H&K Certified Master Armorer and has done quite a bit of work for the bubbas on HKPro. He did a great job repairing a H&K P9S for me last year. http://www.teufelshundtactical.com/

[MountainRaven]

It is my understanding that the gas piston should not be lubricated. Doing so can lead to excess carbon in the gas cylinder that could be very difficult to remove. Did you have a chance to use a scraping tool inside the gas cylinder?

I know. But I remember this was a concern when he acquired the pistol originally - I just didn't remember it. And it doesn't look like rust. I mean, the color is wrong.


I don't have any experience with that issue, but you can easily remove the striker from the slide to inspect and clean it. After insuring the weapon is clear, partially squeeze the cocking lever until the back of the striker is just below the striker bushing. Rotate the bushing 90 degrees clockwise, and the striker assembly will come right out.

I would recommend that you give James at Teufeslhund Tactical a call. He's a H&K Certified Master Armorer and has done quite a bit of work for the bubbas on HKPro. He did a great job repairing a H&K P9S for me last year. http://www.teufelshundtactical.com/

We took it apart several times - slide from frame and striker assembly from slide. We couldn't get it to reliably replicate the issue, except that we'd increased the probability of it occurring if we hadn't handled the gun for five or ten minutes: Meaning that we were more likely to get it to happen the first one or two times after either of us picked it up than in the subsequent attempts (until we set the gun aside for a second or the other one of us tried to figure it out).

In any case, I'll drop James a line and see what he says. Thanks!

[TheChunkNorris]

I'd make the trade in a second. If you liked your PSP before you sold it, you'll enjoy the M8 more so. James does amazing work and is a great person to deal with, he'll give you the info whether it's good or bad.