View Full Version : Gorilla shot and killed at Cincinnati Zoo
Eurodriver
05-28-16, 18:54
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/28/police-child-taken-hospital-after-falling-into-gorilla-pen/85095094/
A 3 year old boy fell into a gorilla enclosure and a male gorilla began dragging the boy around. After 10 minutes or so, the decision was made to shoot and kill the gorilla. Tranqs were determined to act too slowly and cause a violent reaction upon impact.
Strictly speaking from my armchair QB position - the death of that animal falls squarely on the shoulders of the guardian of that 3 year old boy.
Yes, the zoo could have made it "impossible" for even a 3 year old to get into the enclosure, but if you listen to the interview you'll see that the kid was unattended for several minutes while he wiggled himself under the fence, in between some mesh wiring, and fell into the enclosure.
F'ing stupid people...
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A baby bison was killed cause people true to "rescue" it.
A pair of lions were killed cause someone jumped in the cage in an attempted suicide.
A gorilla was killed cause someone dropped their kid in the cage.
Should be shooting more stupid people
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Outlander Systems
05-28-16, 19:54
Here I was thinking some indigs G'd up, and got hosed down at the zoo.
Dear zookeeper:
Find Lawyer. Sue for negligent parenting.
As a parent of a 3 yr old I can understand that they are indeed a handful, however, this is another example of inattentive parenting.
Strictly speaking from my armchair QB position - the death of that animal falls squarely on the shoulders of the guardian of that 3 year old boy.
Pretty much.
As a parent of a 3 yr old I can understand that they are indeed a handful, however, this is another example of inattentive parenting.
I suspect that if you and your 3 yr old were at the zoo, he wouldn't have made it through the first protective barrier.
What if that was the Gorilla that was going to develop sentience?
What if this was part of God's plan to avoid ape uprising?
We all cry and fret over zombies when ape uprising is all the more likely!
They can always kidnap another gorilla from the jungle.
Zoos are interesting, but they are also prisons for animals. Some of whom didn't even do anything.
Anyways good shoot and before we judge, 3 year olds that aren't on a literal leash can do some far out stuff faster than your eyes can blink or your heart can beat. So bleh
I have an 11 month old that can run, climb stairs, open drawers, dig, swing a stick around, etc... he started walking at the latter half of 6 months. You better bet that by the time he is three, he'll either be on point or on a leash.
If by some chance he makes it into a gorilla compound with gorillas in it, I won't we waiting around for some else to shoot any gorilla getting near him. 10 minutes? Try 2 seconds.
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Averageman
05-29-16, 08:28
I have an 11 month old that can run, climb stairs, open drawers, dig, swing a stick around, etc... he started walking at the latter half of 6 months. You better bet that by the time he is three, he'll either be on point or on a leash.
I was one of those kids and yes, I had a leash. This was 1965 or so, it embarrassed the hell out of my Mother, but I didn't run away when she used it.
As soon as my Dad got home, we had a bit of an understanding happen. If I didn't act like a monkey, he didn't whip me and send me to bed without supper. I'm sure that would all be Child abuse today, but it worked and I'm a better Man for it.
It's not hard to lose track of a hyperactive 3 year old, it's a lot easier to keep an eye on them if they behave and a leash my not be your first choice, but seeing your kid in a Gorilla cage? Why wasn't the kid in a stroller?
Why wasn't the kid in a stroller?
Probably because most 3 year olds can walk well enough on their own.
I'm not sure how the Cincinnati zoo is but there's no way anyone can just fall into a dangerous animals enclosure around here. There's fences, moats, netting... all sorts of stuff to prevent situations just like that.
While I agree that the parent/guardian is "mostly" at fault here, it's the zoo's responsibility to ensure that these things don't happen or at least can't happen this easily. There's too many idiots out there to pass the responsibility on to.
I know if that was my kid, it'd take me seconds to get between the gorilla & my child. I may not live to talk about it but at least I didn't watch some animal drag my kid around for 10 minutes.
BuzzinSATX
05-29-16, 09:00
They can always kidnap another gorilla from the jungle.
Zoos are interesting, but they are also prisons for animals. Some of whom didn't even do anything.
Anyways good shoot and before we judge, 3 year olds that aren't on a literal leash can do some far out stuff faster than your eyes can blink or your heart can beat. So bleh
I'm pretty much in agreement here...in theory, kids should be supervised, but reality having been a parent of rug rats and likely to be a grandparent of same, is you turn your gaze away for 20 seconds and they pull of some ninja-moves...
And if you are a fan of zoo's, then you are basically saying you are good with humans taking undomesticated critters from their wild environments and putting them on display for all to see...and there are consequences for that to both humans and animals. For people, we tend to humanize the animals, and for the animals, they become artificially supported with regular food, meds, etc...
I personally don't care one way or another...I've only gone to 2 zoos in my entire life, and didn't really give a dang about them. I do subscribe to the idea that if we are gonna take a critter out of the wild, we should give it a decent environment to live in, but ultimately, it's not a human. and if we are going to take on the responsibility for bringing it out of it's environment into ours, we need to keep it real and understand that we (humans) are still above the critter on the priority level. The parents SHOULD have watched the kid. The zoo SHOULD have made an enclosure a kid couldn't get into. The kid SHOULD NOT have climbed into the gorilla area. But in the end, the first responders SHOULD have saved the kid by the most efficient means at their disposal.
On another note, I am kinda curious what caliber and firearm was used, where the shot was placed, how many rounds it took, and how the round performed on the big monkey...after all, it is a firearms forum...
:cool:
I suspect that if you and your 3 yr old were at the zoo, he wouldn't have made it through the first protective barrier.
The only threat that I worry I've exposed my child to is the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality of my mother-in-law.
Another news article I read on this said that their DART (Dangerous Animal Response Team) killed the gorilla. I wonder what kind of armory they have at a zoo? I mean what if you're trying to take down a rhino or an elephant? Seems like a big ask. I mean, the distance is relatively short but you're essentially having to do hostage in the arms of a hostage taker type of accuracy. Seems like a tall order for Joe Zookeeper.
A Cincinnati area M4C member should do a recon of the enclosure. I would like to see what the child had to climb to get inside.
Upon reading the article, my initial reaction was that the child would have been raised by more attentive parents if it was left in the cage with the apes.
I have a few boys of my own. They can be escape artists when young. Mine never made it into a zoo exhibit. They did, however, climb out of the crib in the middle of the night raid the fridge, toybox, etc
Upon reading the article, my initial reaction was that the child would have been raised by more attentive parents if it was left in the cage with the apes.
http://ci.memecdn.com/342/6523342.jpg
I'm wondering why a zoo person did not jump(on a rope)into the enclosure to distract the big ape with food while another person rescued the child. Would not flash band grenades make the animals run away? I must quickly add that I'm not placing the animal's life above the child's.
#apelivesmatter
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I continue to mourn for the gorilla. I can think of a few people who should have been thrown into the pit as a distraction for this noble animal. Of course, I can't criticize the zoo's decision making. I wasn't there, and the child's life mattered above all else.
I continue to mourn for the gorilla. I can think of a few people who should have been thrown into the pit as a distraction for this noble animal. Of course, I can't criticize the zoo's decision making. I wasn't there, and the child's life mattered above all else.
If I may continue to play Devil's Advocate...that Gorilla was a convicted felon doing a life sentence.
ETA I also sorta that the guy who took the shot was a former Rhodesian mercenary alcoholic wearing a bush hat and always berating the zoo owner that there's not enough damned security.
#apelivesmatter
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They'll be marching soon. Just watch
It is not the child's fault he was about to be killed by a Gorrila. That is the only thing that counts.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-29-16, 23:36
To those blaming the parents...you must not have children.
Parents have the responsibility of supervising their children. I can say that without blaming.
To those blaming the parents...you must not have children.
Yeah, I think I found the problem.
Witness Kim O’Connor said she overheard the child talking about entering the enclosure before he fell in. His mother was at the time tending to several other young children.
“The little boy himself had already been talking about wanting to...get in the water. The mother's like, 'No, you're not, no, you're not,'” O’Connor said.
Watched the video on YouTube this morning and in the one I saw it didn't seem to me that the the big silverback was threatening the little boy in any way. More like he was trying to figure out what to do with him. The way he was gently holding him looked to me like like how they handle their own young.
Come on....what's the big deal? Someone had to shoot a big monkey.
Eurodriver
05-30-16, 08:32
Come on....what's the big deal? Someone had to shoot a big monkey.
Theres only 550 Western Lowland Gorilla's in zoos. This gorilla was almost at breeding age and because of the species (western can mate with eastern, etc) they keep the genes pretty guarded from interbreeding to avoid eliminating the species. Losing a breeding aged male is actually a pretty big deal.
Now there are 549, and it's all because some asshole breeding machine didn't bother to pay attention to her offspring. If I were in charge, I would have told the mom to get her kid back herself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_lowland_gorilla
To those blaming the parents...you must not have children.
You're absolutely right. I'm not a parent for many reasons (I enjoy having money, free time, toys, a life, friends, sleeping in, and not wiping butt holes of parasites) however, I can say that if I did have children their well being and safety would be my responsibility, not the zoo's.
It'd be one thing if the ape got out of the enclosure and attacked the kid, but the kid wasn't supervised and now a gorilla is dead. Sue the parents for negligence.
There were only 550 Western Lowland Gorilla's left in the entire world. This gorilla was almost at breeding age and because of the species (western can mate with eastern, etc) they keep the genes pretty guarded from interbreeding to avoid eliminating the species. Losing a breeding aged male is actually a pretty big deal.
Now there are 549, and it's all because some asshole breeding machine didn't bother to pay attention to her offspring. If I were in charge, I would have told the mom to get her kid back herself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_lowland_gorilla
OK...let's say for argument that these gorilla's become extinct overnight. What impact does this have on your life?
On our lives, in general.
Zilch.
I would be concerned if you told me that cows all of a sudden might become extinct. I would really miss having my ribeyes medium rare.
OK...let's say for argument that these gorilla's become extinct overnight. What impact does this have on your life?
On our lives, in general. Zilch.
I would be concerned if you told me that cows all of a sudden might become extinct. I would really miss having my ribeyes medium rare.
Gorillas are highly intelligent. This gorilla can sign over 1,100 words in ASL (http://www.koko.org/sign-language). Cows? Not so much.
But, from reading your posts here, I can not expect you to understand that because it seems you only see animals as a food source, whereas I and many others see animals as an enrichment to our lives. How about we kill all the songbirds and eat them?
Eurodriver
05-30-16, 09:04
Oh, I get it. You're misunderstanding me. Using your argument, if your entire family died in a horrific car accident because someone t-boned you while intoxicated, it wouldn't affect me either.
I'd mourn for your loss, as that is a tragedy that could have been avoided if someone had simply not been a ****ing idiot, but I'd go to bed just fine tonight.
Same thing with the gorilla. Life goes on, and it doesn't affect me. But what it does affect are future generations. Maybe the western lowland gorilla has a gene that can cure cancer? Maybe I want my grandkids to be able to see a western lowland gorilla? Using your example, maybe you've got a really hot daughter that I could have ended up marrying. But now we'll never know because of some irresponsible asshole.
Oh, I get it. You're misunderstanding me. Using your argument, if your entire family died in a horrific car accident because someone t-boned you while intoxicated, it wouldn't affect me either.
I'd mourn for your loss, as that is a tragedy that could have been avoided if someone had simply not been a ****ing idiot, but I'd go to bed just fine tonight.
Same thing with the gorilla. Life goes on, and it doesn't affect me. But what it does affect are future generations. Maybe the western lowland gorilla has a gene that can cure cancer? Maybe I want my grandkids to be able to see a western lowland gorilla? Using your example, maybe you've got a really hot daughter that I could have ended up marrying. But now we'll never know because of some irresponsible asshole.
This may be your best post EVER!
Species have been going extinct since there was life...either from environmental change or from OTHER species.
That's life...that's evolution....now all of a sudden we feel the need to play god...and "protect" certain species.
Give me a break.
Oh, I get it. You're misunderstanding me. Using your argument, if your entire family died in a horrific car accident because someone t-boned you while intoxicated, it wouldn't affect me either.
I'd mourn for your loss, as that is a tragedy that could have been avoided if someone had simply not been a ****ing idiot, but I'd go to bed just fine tonight.
Same thing with the gorilla. Life goes on, and it doesn't affect me. But what it does affect are future generations. Maybe the western lowland gorilla has a gene that can cure cancer? Maybe I want my grandkids to be able to see a western lowland gorilla? Using your example, maybe you've got a really hot daughter that I could have ended up marrying. But now we'll never know because of some irresponsible asshole.
Yep...I don't expect anyone to mourn for me or my family because my family is my business.
......
You're absolutely right. I'm not a parent for many reasons (I enjoy having money, free time, toys, a life, friends, sleeping in, and not wiping butt holes of parasites) however, I can say that if I did have children their well being and safety would be my responsibility, not the zoo's.
.
Maybe I want my grandkids to be able to see a western lowland gorilla? .....
Not a parent....usually means you won't have grand kids......so no need to worry about the future...with or without endangered monkeys.
You're absolutely right. I'm not a parent for many reasons (I enjoy having money, free time, toys, a life, friends, sleeping in, and not wiping butt holes of parasites)
I'm certainly not going to tell the smartest man in FL that he is an idiot, but well......don't knock it if you haven't tried it. Then there is the whole thing of liberals out breeding conservatives.
Outlander Systems
05-30-16, 10:24
10mm.
I wonder what kind of armory they have at a zoo?
Whatever the question is, 10mm is the answer.
I mean what if you're trying to take down a rhino or an elephant?
10mm, DUDE!
Seems like a big ask.
Species have been going extinct since there was life...either from environmental change or from OTHER species.
That's life...that's evolution....now all of a sudden we feel the need to play god...and "protect" certain species.
Give me a break.
Well, I'd argue it's markedly different when said extinctions occur as a result of our negligent meddling in the first place.
In my experience some people who lack an appreciation for life and nature are the same ones who tortured cats as kids because it was fun.
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Eurodriver
05-30-16, 10:29
Not a parent....usually means you won't have grand kids......so no need to worry about the future...with or without endangered monkeys.
I have every intention of being a parent, but all these hotties keep dying in car accidents so it's taking a while.
I don't seem to understand the point of your posts here. Are you posting to point out your disgust with people in this thread being legitimately upset because a gorilla was shot (to my knowledge, there aren't any) or are you just standing on your macho-man soap box about how cool you are because you don't value the life of endangered primates?
What bothers me about your tone isn't that you don't give a shit if the western lowland gorilla goes extinct, or even that you show no concern over any species going extinct because "evolution". What bothers me is that you're apparently cool with 0.18% of a global population of animals being killed because a mother couldn't be bothered to watch after her own child.
Outlander Systems
05-30-16, 10:30
Another argument I use for the rise of Artificial Superintelligence, and the inherent existential threat.
Much as we don't consult with gorillas, when we make decisions, nor will ASI consult with us, when decisions are being made. Simmer your dome piece on that.
A lot can be said about a society, by how they value those who can't take care of themselves.
While I have no love for Silverback Gorillas, as I don't know any personally, I also don't have love for the people who act like a zoo is a playground.
If your kid doesn't comprehend that getting in a gorilla cage isn't a good idea, maybe, just maybe, he didn't have any business at a ****ing zoo in the first place.
I've been to Disneyworld once. When I was three. Guess who doesn't remember a god damned thing about Disneyworld?
Yup.
So we shoot endangered species because a parent made poor choices? Sounds about right.
Species have been going extinct since there was life...either from environmental change or from OTHER species.
That's life...that's evolution....now all of a sudden we feel the need to play god...and "protect" certain species.
Give me a break.
If your kid doesn't comprehend that getting in a gorilla cage isn't a good idea, maybe, just maybe, he didn't have any business at a ****ing zoo in the first place.
So a three year old has no business being at a zoo??
BuzzinSATX
05-30-16, 10:40
Gorillas are highly intelligent. This gorilla can sign over 1,100 words in ASL (http://www.koko.org/sign-language). Cows? Not so much.
But, from reading your posts here, I can not expect you to understand that because it seems you only see animals as a food source, whereas I and many others see animals as an enrichment to our lives. How about we kill all the songbirds and eat them?
Bro, haven't you seen Planet of the Apes? We don't need no stinking talking gorillas! I suppose the next thing we'll teach them is how to field strip an AR15? And as far as songbirds go, there ain't much meat on their bones...
There were only 550 Western Lowland Gorilla's left in the entire world. This gorilla was almost at breeding age and because of the species (western can mate with eastern, etc) they keep the genes pretty guarded from interbreeding to avoid eliminating the species. Losing a breeding aged male is actually a pretty big deal.
Now there are 549, and it's all because some asshole breeding machine didn't bother to pay attention to her offspring. If I were in charge, I would have told the mom to get her kid back herself.
You're absolutely right. I'm not a parent for many reasons (I enjoy having money, free time, toys, a life, friends, sleeping in, and not wiping butt holes of parasites)
We have gorillas in captivity with the goal of breeding them...doesn't that make them "sex slave-baby machines"? What if the momma gorilla wanted an abortion? What if the male gorilla was a homosexual? Or what if he was sterile? Or had "performance anxiety" with the zoo keepers watching? Would his life had mattered as much?
Gotta remember...we all start out as parasites needing our winey little buttonholes wiped...
And FWIW, I really don't give a banana one way or another...sorry Magilla bit the dust...but glad that danged 'parasite" got out of it alive. And yeah, parents should have had a better handle on it, but shit happens, regardless who's wiping it up...
So a three year old has no business being at a zoo??
I do want them to see and enjoy the animals, and to learn about them, but only on a leash, if otherwise walking freely.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-30-16, 10:56
Great Zoo by the way. World class pediatric hospital right next to it with IIRC the country's busiest pediatric ER.
Blame the parents? Yep, they screwed up. Parents are responsible for their kids.
Condemn them? Nope. Stuff goes sideways.
I do want them to see and enjoy the animals, and to learn about them, but only on a leash, if otherwise walking freely.
You mean metaphorically speaking... a leash? Like well supervised by a parent or guardian? Not literally on a leash. Because that would be retarded & logistically very difficult or near impossible if there's more than one child or worse, many kids...like at a birthday party or field trip.
I totally agree, it's about the experience & learning that's taking place. Watching your child's face light up when they see their favorite animal is priceless.
The parent screwed up in this case but as any parent knows, these things can happen quickly and no parent is immune. It's just an unfortunate situation that didn't have to happen. Ultimately, both the parent & zoo are at fault here. The parent for not supervising the child well enough & the zoo for making it so easy to access the enclosure.
Great Zoo by the way.
It is indeed! Been there many times.
Well, I'd argue it's markedly different when said extinctions occur as a result of our negligent meddling in the first place.
In my experience some people who lack an appreciation for life and nature are the same ones who tortured cats as kids because it was fun.
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I have 4 cats
I have every intention of being a parent, but all these hotties keep dying in car accidents so it's taking a while.
I don't seem to understand the point of your posts here. Are you posting to point out your disgust with people in this thread being legitimately upset because a gorilla was shot (to my knowledge, there aren't any) or are you just standing on your macho-man soap box about how cool you are because you don't value the life of endangered primates?
What bothers me about your tone isn't that you don't give a shit if the western lowland gorilla goes extinct, or even that you show no concern over any species going extinct because "evolution". What bothers me is that you're apparently cool with 0.18% of a global population of animals being killed because a mother couldn't be bothered to watch after her own child.
Of the many things that I'm saying, is that I place value on human life over all others..even endangered gorillas.
Would you express the same sentiment if an irresponsible parent allowed their kid to wander into a bad part of town, and some gang banger got shot by a cop protecting the kid?
My macho man soap box is unavailable...My four cats use it for their kitty litter.
This is going into diminishing returns.
First, morbid levity aside, the Gorilla is just a beast driven by instinct. He had no ill will or malice. He saw another primate and acted on instinct.
Second, life happens. Kids are stupid. They do stupid things. I know, I used to be one. I thought jumping off a roof was cool. A car broke my fall. I wish I'd broken a leg rather than dent the car's roof which got my arse beaten. Seems like the mother was taking more kids than she could handle. I doubt she was truly negligent as kids are crazy and will do crazy things.
Third, They'll likely upgrade security. Try to invigorate more breeding. This was an expensive lesson.
Finally, I take the zen approach. One day, we will be extinct. Somehow. Some disease. Just our time. I doubt we'll come up with a space ark.
Species have come and gone. I saw Star Trek 4 too. And preservation and our feeble attempts at it, is a perpetually losing battle.
What happened, happened. Just try not to let it happen again.
Eurodriver
05-30-16, 12:22
Of the many things that I'm saying, is that I place value on human life over all others..even endangered gorillas.
Would you express the same sentiment if an irresponsible parent allowed their kid to wander into a bad part of town, and some gang banger got shot by a cop protecting the kid?
Do you think I have a problem with them shooting the gorilla?
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-30-16, 12:41
https://youtu.be/umkEy0Womk0
Speaking of whacking primates. I think the Zoo shot was easier.
Do you think I have a problem with them shooting the gorilla?
I am not sure there was any other way since I wasn't there, but if there was, I do.
SeriousStudent
05-30-16, 12:48
Consider the irony.......
Bickering and arguing in a thread about zoo's, lower-order primates, and childrens' behavior.
I swear, some days you just wonder who's the higher order and who's the lower.
I do want them to see and enjoy the animals, and to learn about them, but only on a leash, if otherwise walking freely.
Ironically, they do make a leash for toddlers. It's a...wait for it...waait for it...waaaait for it - a monkey backpack. No shit.
http://t.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12995755
I actually used a similar product when I took my kind down to Disney. Now, I use an electronic shock collar. Compliance is a simple matter of voltage. The little bastard has no idea that I'm the one shocking him. I just tell him that Jesus is watching and knows when he has been bad...
SeriousStudent
05-30-16, 12:58
Ironically, they do make a leash for toddlers. It's a...wait for it...waait for it...waaaait for it - a monkey backpack. No shit.
http://t.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12995755
I actually used a similar product when I took my kind down to Disney. Now, I use an electronic shock collar. Compliance is a simple matter of voltage. The little bastard has no idea that I'm the one shocking him. I just tell him that Jesus is watching and knows when he has been bad...
Sweet - did you get the USB rechargeable one? I tried the older models, that used CR123's. Commonality of supplies, dontcha know.
I always carry a spare collar as well. Two is one, etc, etc.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-30-16, 13:06
Consider the irony.......
Bickering and arguing in a thread about zoo's, lower-order primates, and childrens' behavior.
I swear, some days you just wonder who's the higher order and who's the lower.
Where is that poo-flinging emoticon.....
Where is that poo-flinging emoticon.....
Poo-flinging would be chimps. Mean little 'tards.
No poo flinging emoticon but RIP Harambe, you, the most misunderstood and proud of God's creatures
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_724ja9d48&app=desktop
gunrunner505
05-30-16, 13:41
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/30/black-outrage-gorilla-shot-protect-white-privilege-just-one-problem/
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/30/black-outrage-gorilla-shot-protect-white-privilege-just-one-problem/
That is a spin I never would have guessed.
Moose-Knuckle
05-30-16, 13:45
Well I'm surprised no one has brought up the concept of zoos in the first place. I'm no tree huger but zoos are kind of 1800ish. Now I enjoy zoos but I do think that the whole circus act Sea World bit is abuse. Ringley Brothers is no longer using animal acts in their shows and Sea World has plans to no longer use orcas.
As for killing the gorilla, yes it was the right call. That boy could have been pulled a part it's not his fault the zoo can't build a proper fence and that his parents weren't paying attention, remember the face transplant lady who was attacked by a chimp?
Moose-Knuckle
05-30-16, 13:47
That is a spin I never would have guessed.
Actually I thought something similar when the story first broke but figured I was just get called a racist, this is the world we live in now.
I am not sure there was any other way since I wasn't there, but if there was, I do.
Given the stakes, and the propensity for shit to go even more sideways, I don't see how there could have been.
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/30/black-outrage-gorilla-shot-protect-white-privilege-just-one-problem/
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ooooohh maaaaaaaaan
Well I'm surprised no one has brought up the concept of zoos in the first place. I'm no tree huger but zoos are kind of 1800ish. Now I enjoy zoos but I do think that the whole circus act Sea World bit is abuse. Ringley Brothers is no longer using animal acts in their shows and Sea World has plans to no longer use orcas.
As for killing the gorilla, yes it was the right call. That boy could have been pulled a part it's not his fault the zoo can't build a proper fence and that his parents weren't paying attention, remember the face transplant lady who was attacked by a chimp?
IIRC the face lady was keeping it as a pet. Not the best of ideas.
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First:
Doesn't this species of gorilla have a protection unit of some sort in their native homeland? That actually track down and sometimes kill poachers?
Second:
That boy better grow up and be somebody.
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thepatriot2705
05-30-16, 15:46
A Cincinnati area M4C member should do a recon of the enclosure. I would like to see what the child had to climb to get inside.
Upon reading the article, my initial reaction was that the child would have been raised by more attentive parents if it was left in the cage with the apes.
I have a few boys of my own. They can be escape artists when young. Mine never made it into a zoo exhibit. They did, however, climb out of the crib in the middle of the night raid the fridge, toybox, etc
Cincy area member here. Ill try to recon once they reopen the gorilla world.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/30/black-outrage-gorilla-shot-protect-white-privilege-just-one-problem/
The part at the bottom where the 4 year old is a black kid... I laughed for a couple of minutes straight.
What pisses me off about this situation is people including some here are acting like shooting the gorilla was the wrong thing to do. If the gorilla had one of your kids what would you want done? You would want your kid back by any means necessary.
The kid shouldn't have been in there to begin with, I know that, but he was what choices are left? I've concealed carried into my local zoo. If it were me I would've jumped in after my kid and shoot the gorilla myself, and most of you would do the same, get off your high horses acting like you think it was wrong.
If people really cared about these animals we wouldn't have them in cages that we call Zoos and we would do everything to ensure these species thrived in their natural habitat, the aren't endangered because we leave them in zoos, they're endangered cause we can't leave them alone in the wild.
It takes a less than a second for your kid to get away from you, kids are hardwork and need every second of your attention. Especially around pit type of enclosures, question is why do zoos have these type of enclosures still? A story like this comes around normally once a year from all over the world.
Gravity and Murphy's Law will ensure this will happen again. Next time the kid might not be so lucky. They should be build tall wall enclosures with plexiglass so anyone doesn't fall again.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/30/black-outrage-gorilla-shot-protect-white-privilege-just-one-problem/
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But wait.... shouldn't this event make the BLM crowd happy?
Maybe once they read the actual story, see pics/video?
:rolleyes:
I'm going to chalk this up to the usual horrific standards of parenting we've all become accustomed to observing....
Case in point-
The other day, I was driving through the town where I work. To my left is a side-street intersecting with the main road, where there is a car shop with vehicles coming and going.
To my right is another side street that slopes steeply down and then runs across the train tracks that run through the town- so sort of an intersection.
As I'm coming into this area, I see a car trying to pull up over the hill on the right hand side road, and then stopping half into the road.... because there is somebody's ankle biter terrier thing skittering around in the middle of the road. The thing has no clue what it's doing in the middle of the road, so it's pretty much running around randomly.
I have to stop too, as it starts running toward my car. I start the usual "scan and assess" thing since I fully expected someone to come running into the road in the next second to save it.
And then I see it.
On the sidewalk on the other side of the lefthand side road, across from the garage, two kids are happily playing with a second dog while their mother keeps a watchful eye.
Yeah.... no.
Dog #2 is unleashed as well, and has just loped across the side road into the parking lot of the busy car garage.
One of the kids is standing on the edge of the sidewalk next to a fire hydrant, looking like it wants to start toddling off after dog #2.
Kid #2 is doing some sort of weird kid-gymnastics thing that they do at the other side of the sidewalk corner and is about to tumble over headfirst into the road.
Meanwhile, the original dog is still wandering aimlessly in the street.
The mom? Bitch is faceplanted in her ****ing phone, back completely turned to the imminent carnage about to go down in the street, just zoned the **** out.
Not once in the about 3-5 minutes I sat there waiting for the ankle biter to GTFO of the road did she look back toward the road or in the general direction of either kid! Of course she was to damn fat to do anything about it anyway, but you know.... some preventative situational awareness does go a long way with these things.
And a leash. Four of them if need be!
I wanted very badly to stop and honk her out of her stupor, but alas, I'm a nice guy. Maybe I should rethink that... :mad:
The zoo should have a better contingency plan for this. They should have a mechanical exoskeleton suit that the handler can wear. He could go in and overpower the ape.
The zoo should have a better contingency plan for this. They should have a mechanical exoskeleton suit that the handler can wear. He could go in and overpower the ape.
I always wishe someone would teach a giant ape to power lift. Or atleast deadlift. SOBs are strong.
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What pisses me off about this situation is people including some here are acting like shooting the gorilla was the wrong thing to do. If the gorilla had one of your kids what would you want done? You would want your kid back by any means necessary.
At risk of saying "can't happen", if I was there with my kid, it would never happen. It would especially never happen if he was talking about going to play in the water. Of course I wouldn't be there with so many kids that I couldn't keep track of them.
Years ago I took my cousins to Metro Zoo in Miami. Same ages and I had no parenting experience. And quite honestly there were things like the Komodo Dragon pit that was no more than a 3 foot high fence and a 5 foot drop down to the Dragons.
My cousins were especially enthusiastic about seeing the Dragons. And despite zero parenting skills when they started walking right up to the fence so they could see the Dragons, even I knew to go with them and to be prepared to yank them off the fence if they began to climb it. I expected that if left to their own decisions making they probably would climb the very short fence and fall into the pit. So I was right there to stop it IF they started to do things like that.
I was also extra cautious when we were around any other potentially dangerous animal that didn't have a formidable barrier, but typically that wasn't the case. It doesn't require one to be a parent, it just requires somebody to have some basic common sense and expect "kids to be kids" and "dangerous animals to be dangerous animals" and act accordingly.
The people who have their kids fall into the gorilla pit are the same idiots that roll down the window at Lion Country Safari so they can get a better picture. They are also the same kind of people who think they don't need a gun and nothing bad can happen to them because they live in a "safe neighborhood."
Absurd as it sounds, people have still died because they rolled down the window at Lion Country Safari and a Lion got in the window and killed them. It really wasn't the fault of the Lion. We even had a couple get out of the damn car to take some better pictures, again the results were not the fault of the lions.
Sucks that they had to shoot a Gorilla because a parents was asleep at the wheel. It was probably necessary. Maybe the Gorilla would have killed the kid, maybe not. There are past instances where primates actually protected children who feel into the gorilla pit. Seems this has happened a few times and people still aren't learning from it. But it really wasn't the kids fault, kids are generally stupid on an incomprehensible level. And no four year old deserves to die because he's dumb as a rock despite Darwin and all that.
But the parent in this case deserves a good ass kicking, this is way beyond forgetting your kid in the car while you go shopping.
No surprise the gorilla was shot. Considering what humans do to each other.....EVERY day, no other species stands a chance, zoo or not. All the other species can hope for is that we humans kill each other off with out taking any other animals with us.
No surprise the gorilla was shot. Considering what humans do to each other.....EVERY day, no other species stands a chance, zoo or not. All the other species can hope for is that we humans kill each other off with out taking any other animals with us.
I'm starting to subscribe to the idea that zoo's no longer serve a purpose. I support protected habitats, but not zoos. That means if you live in FL and want to see bears you have to go to Yellowstone and if you live in WA and want to see alligators you have to go to FL. It also means most Americans will never see a giraffe or elephant and that's probably fine.
Just like we are doing away with traveling circus animals we probably need to phase out zoos for the same reason. No more importation from other countries, except in cases where a species is at risk and we have a suitable habitat that would support and sustain that species, and no more breeding in captivity.
jerrysimons
05-31-16, 01:05
I'm pretty much in agreement here...in theory, kids should be supervised, but reality having been a parent of rug rats and likely to be a grandparent of same, is you turn your gaze away for 20 seconds and they pull of some ninja-moves...
And if you are a fan of zoo's, then you are basically saying you are good with humans taking undomesticated critters from their wild environments and putting them on display for all to see...and there are consequences for that to both humans and animals. For people, we tend to humanize the animals, and for the animals, they become artificially supported with regular food, meds, etc...
I personally don't care one way or another...I've only gone to 2 zoos in my entire life, and didn't really give a dang about them. I do subscribe to the idea that if we are gonna take a critter out of the wild, we should give it a decent environment to live in, but ultimately, it's not a human. and if we are going to take on the responsibility for bringing it out of it's environment into ours, we need to keep it real and understand that we (humans) are still above the critter on the priority level. The parents SHOULD have watched the kid. The zoo SHOULD have made an enclosure a kid couldn't get into. The kid SHOULD NOT have climbed into the gorilla area. But in the end, the first responders SHOULD have saved the kid by the most efficient means at their disposal.
On another note, I am kinda curious what caliber and firearm was used, where the shot was placed, how many rounds it took, and how the round performed on the big monkey...after all, it is a firearms forum...
:cool:
This. Also the possible witnesses at the exhibit should not have just watched a 3 year old climb into the enclosure. At risk of being accused of something I am not going to simply watch someone's dumb toddler put himself into the path of life threatening harm.
No charges filed for the parent, sounds like she was trying to wrangle more children then she could manage. The Zoo knows it could be sued too.
I am very curious what they dropped him with as well as their tactics/training. Obviously instant incapacitation was desired over risking pissing him off, though the 400lb gorilla could have crushed the child after crumpling over from the shot too. Many things to consider there. 'Not sure a concealed carrier flinging 9mm at the guy would have achieved the desired outcome...
Moose-Knuckle
05-31-16, 01:42
IIRC the face lady was keeping it as a pet. Not the best of ideas.
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It wasn't her chimp, it belong to a friend of hers and was very sweet and friendly until it wasn't.
Moose-Knuckle
05-31-16, 01:57
But wait.... shouldn't this event make the BLM crowd happy?
Maybe once they read the actual story, see pics/video?
:rolleyes:
Yeah I wonder if any of these idiots ever realized the boy that fell into the gorilla exhibit was BLACK?
You can't make this $h*t up . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv4Fvs9jQpc&feature=youtu.be
Outlander Systems
05-31-16, 06:39
I'm pretty much with you dude.
After the director of the local aquarium was shitcanned for a video surfacing of him abusing Dolphins, I was like, this shit's stupid.
Wanna see a dolphin? Go to Destin.
Wanna see a Copperheadedrattlemoccasin? Come to Georgia.
I'm starting to subscribe to the idea that zoo's no longer serve a purpose. I support protected habitats, but not zoos. That means if you live in FL and want to see bears you have to go to Yellowstone and if you live in WA and want to see alligators you have to go to FL. It also means most Americans will never see a giraffe or elephant and that's probably fine.
Just like we are doing away with traveling circus animals we probably need to phase out zoos for the same reason. No more importation from other countries, except in cases where a species is at risk and we have a suitable habitat that would support and sustain that species, and no more breeding in captivity.
Averageman
05-31-16, 06:43
Probably because most 3 year olds can walk well enough on their own.
Seriously?
After a mile and a half of walking through a zoo, that kid is going to want to sit his butt in a stroller, that's why renting them at the Zoo is serious business.
I'm pretty much with you dude.
Wanna see a Copperheadedrattlemoccasin? Come to Georgia.
Yep, some will actually get right in the boat with you for a closer look,.
I'm starting to subscribe to the idea that zoo's no longer serve a purpose. I support protected habitats, but not zoos. That means if you live in FL and want to see bears you have to go to Yellowstone and if you live in WA and want to see alligators you have to go to FL. It also means most Americans will never see a giraffe or elephant and that's probably fine.
Just like we are doing away with traveling circus animals we probably need to phase out zoos for the same reason. No more importation from other countries, except in cases where a species is at risk and we have a suitable habitat that would support and sustain that species, and no more breeding in captivity.
Yep, agreed. There is a place here in Ohio called "the wilds", I believe it is along the lines of what you are talking about with a protected habitat. Honestly, with the Internet, anyone can see pictures of ANY animal in every part of the world. Ok, so it's not the same as being up close, live. At least the animals wouldn't spend the rest of their lives in a cage. Maybe people would pony up some big $$$$ and go to Africa and see the animals, maybe not but that would be better than the alternative. No more traveling circuses means no more zoos. Good idea. Might as well get rid of sea world while your at it. The killer whales will thank you.
Seriously?
After a mile and a half of walking through a zoo, that kid is going to want to sit his butt in a stroller, that's why renting them at the Zoo is serious business.
Yep. I have one and know very well what she's capable of. We've also been to a zoo with my three kids (4, 3, & 1) so I've got a pretty good handle on this.
To your point though, I've also seen 5-6 year olds getting pushed around in those little folding umbrella strollers (looks ridiculous) so obviously, not all kids are created equal. I'm not about to force my child to sit in a stroller when she's capable of, and wanting to, walk along with us. Especially when it hinders the overall quality of their experience.
Yeah I wonder if any of these idiots ever realized the boy that fell into the gorilla exhibit was BLACK?
You can't make this $h*t up . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv4Fvs9jQpc&feature=youtu.be
My hopes for humanity surviving another 50-70 years have been diminished a little more........thank you.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-31-16, 08:07
What pisses me off about this situation is people including some here are acting like shooting the gorilla was the wrong thing to do. If the gorilla had one of your kids what would you want done? You would want your kid back by any means necessary.
The kid shouldn't have been in there to begin with, I know that, but he was what choices are left? I've concealed carried into my local zoo. If it were me I would've jumped in after my kid and shoot the gorilla myself, and most of you would do the same, get off your high horses acting like you think it was wrong.
If people really cared about these animals we wouldn't have them in cages that we call Zoos and we would do everything to ensure these species thrived in their natural habitat, the aren't endangered because we leave them in zoos, they're endangered cause we can't leave them alone in the wild.
It takes a less than a second for your kid to get away from you, kids are hardwork and need every second of your attention. Especially around pit type of enclosures, question is why do zoos have these type of enclosures still? A story like this comes around normally once a year from all over the world.
Gravity and Murphy's Law will ensure this will happen again. Next time the kid might not be so lucky. They should be build tall wall enclosures with plexiglass so anyone doesn't fall again.
This is by far the most reasonable and intelligent post in here.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-31-16, 08:12
I'm starting to subscribe to the idea that zoo's no longer serve a purpose. I support protected habitats, but not zoos. That means if you live in FL and want to see bears you have to go to Yellowstone and if you live in WA and want to see alligators you have to go to FL. It also means most Americans will never see a giraffe or elephant and that's probably fine.
Just like we are doing away with traveling circus animals we probably need to phase out zoos for the same reason. No more importation from other countries, except in cases where a species is at risk and we have a suitable habitat that would support and sustain that species, and no more breeding in captivity.
I think non-stop 4k multiple channels and online videos of animals, plus the ever more rare actual animal show on the Animal Planet channel, make going to a zoo a little less meaningful than it did 100 years ago.
It wasn't her chimp, it belong to a friend of hers and was very sweet and friendly until it wasn't.
From the recent articles about Bonobos versus chimps in the area of violent behavior, I wonder why anyone would have a violent chimp versus a peaceful bonobo? Of course the bonobo's orgy predilection might get a bit old, for some.
Man, that Gorilla was turning his life around and got caught up.
He was up for Parole too.
Tonight after some mourning, I'm gonna pour some 40 on the ground
Very sad situation. The only one that did nothing inherently wrong was the gorilla. I do believe, however, the zoo did the right thing by the child. It’s very unfortunate that it was a perfect storm. I do feel the mother (or caregiver, or whoever was responsible for the kid at the time) should be held responsible and ordered to pay the zoo for the reparations of the lost silverback. That being said, she’ll probably sue the zoo and make millions off this.
Very sad situation. The only one that did nothing inherently wrong was the gorilla. I do believe, however, the zoo did the right thing by the child. It’s very unfortunate that it was a perfect storm. I do feel the mother (or caregiver, or whoever was responsible for the kid at the time) should be held responsible and ordered to pay the zoo for the reparations of the lost silverback. That being said, she’ll probably sue the zoo and make millions off this.
Good summary. Today I discovered the video I watched before and commented on was "sanitized". Today I watched the full video and that little boy was taken for quite a romp thru the water. Sad all around, but agree with the above post.
Man, that Gorilla was turning his life around and got caught up.
He was up for Parole too.
Tonight after some mourning, I'm gonna pour some 40 on the ground
Everything was going fine until he got in with the wrong people...
Everything was going fine until he got in with the wrong people...
He soulda never joined that #BLM group.
Yep, agreed. There is a place here in Ohio called "the wilds", I believe it is along the lines of what you are talking about with a protected habitat. Honestly, with the Internet, anyone can see pictures of ANY animal in every part of the world. Ok, so it's not the same as being up close, live. At least the animals wouldn't spend the rest of their lives in a cage. Maybe people would pony up some big $$$$ and go to Africa and see the animals, maybe not but that would be better than the alternative. No more traveling circuses means no more zoos. Good idea. Might as well get rid of sea world while your at it. The killer whales will thank you.
Well I was speaking of managed preserves, but wild and undeveloped works to. You want to see a wolf? Great, go hike for several hours deep into the woods and if you are really, really lucky you will see one. If you are even more lucky you won't find 8 at the same time.
As a kid I saw animals in the wild a couple times. Nothing compares to it. Seeing animals in confinement depresses me more than it impresses me. I'm smart enough to be content to see a Grizzly on TV and not need to see one in person.
I have an 11 month old that can run, climb stairs, open drawers, dig, swing a stick around, etc... he started walking at the latter half of 6 months. You better bet that by the time he is three, he'll either be on point or on a leash.
If by some chance he makes it into a gorilla compound with gorillas in it, I won't we waiting around for some else to shoot any gorilla getting near him. 10 minutes? Try 2 seconds.
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I agree. It did make me feel my 9mm hollow points were not quite up to the job. I do two mag dumps and take it from there.
https://www.22kill.com
Just to keep things relative...
World | Tue May 31, 2016 4:41pm EDT
Criminal charges possible in killing of Cincinnati gorilla
BY GINNY MCCABE
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ohio-gorilla-idUSKCN0YM1XH
"The death of Harambe, a 450-pound (200-kg) gorilla, also prompted the animal rights group Stop Animal Exploitation Now to file a negligence complaint on Tuesday against the zoo with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The group is seeking the maximum penalty of $10,000."
"The group said in its complaint letter that the child's ability to get past the barrier was proof the zoo was negligent and should be fined for a "clear and fatal violation of the Animal Welfare Act."
"Witnesses said the child had expressed a desire to get into the enclosure and climbed over a 3-foot (1-meter) barrier, falling 15 feet (4.6 m) into a moat."
LowSpeed_HighDrag
05-31-16, 17:47
https://www.22kill.com
Just to keep things relative...
AND that's been debunked...but I see your point. Actual things are happening in the world right now, people are dying, and the world weeps for a pampered gorilla.
AND that's been debunked...but I see your point. Actual things are happening in the world right now, people are dying, and the world weeps for a pampered gorilla.
I heard it on the radio this morning...running the numbers in my head I knew it couldn't be accurate, but has been on my mind all day.
AND that's been debunked...but I see your point. Actual things are happening in the world right now, people are dying, and the world weeps for a pampered gorilla.
Exactly, what real news is happening while our attention is detracted towards this monkey shooting?
Do people really give a crap about this?
Every day I am astounded by how stupid most people are.
and as I would say how many babies were killed the same day by abortions ?
how many kids were killed after the parents gave the kids the keys and a phone ?
one gorilla to save a child IMHO is not even a decision
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-16, 02:52
https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7283/26784463623_6a2d7cac0b_b.jpg[/url]
BangBang77
06-01-16, 03:46
You can't make this shit up...
What a world we live in.
Heavenly God....people are serious.
Man, it's not funny now. It's actually sad.
Any info on what he was shot with and how many times? Is there video of the shoot? I have only seen the short video of the kid being dragged around a few times.
I've heard the story of a NYPD Cop killing a Polar Bear with a single shot from his .38. Not sure it's true. The last line makes me think it's BS.
POLAR BEAR KILLED TO SAVE MAN WHO PUT ARM INTO CAGE
By Martin Gansberg
THE NEW YORK TIMES
June 6, 1971
At that point Eddie Rodriquez, the lionkeeper at the zoo, went to help the patrolman. He started pushing the bear with a stick, but to no avail.
“I fired another shot in the air,” Patrolman Dlugokecki said. “The bear sucked in more of the man’s hand, right up to the forearm. I made up my mind I’d have to shoot the bear.” As Mr. Rodriquez pushed at Skandy with the stick, the policeman fired into the left side of the animal’s chest. The bear let go of Mr. Jones’s hand, staggered back and fell dead against the fence of an adjacent unoccupied cage.
The incident was not the first of this kind at the zoo. In July, 1944, two couples broke into the zoo at 2 A.M. and climbed over the protective rail to bait a polar bear. The animal tore off the forearm of Catherine Searles, 24, of 1155 Park Avenue, before it was pulled away. That bear, named Soc, weighed 500 pounds and was seven feet tall.
Before Mr. Jones was taken to the hospital yesterday, he was treated for gashes at the Central Park police station. “I don’t know what he was thinking,” said Patrolman Dlugokecki. “I gave him a summons for feeding the animals. It’s illegal, you know.”
If you can't beat the stupid, might as well join it.
Probably the only animal in the entire zoo with a REAL JOB.
If you can't beat the stupid, might as well join it.
Probably the only animal in the entire zoo with a REAL JOB.
He has that college educated, sign language look. All bougie an' shit.
I hope his bananas get stolen in the name of social justice
Evolution has been stunted with modern technology. We need to start making enclosures easier for people to get into.
Mommy can hop in after little Junior she just had to bring him to see the wild animals but found holding his hand too much trouble.
usmcvet I read it was a shoulder shot that hit the spinal cord. But to further my example the guy sticking his arm in was now given a chance to spread his genius genes.
Moose-Knuckle
06-01-16, 19:20
Any info on what he was shot with and how many times? Is there video of the shoot? I have only seen the short video of the kid being dragged around a few times.
I've heard the story of a NYPD Cop killing a Polar Bear with a single shot from his .38. Not sure it's true. The last line makes me think it's BS.
POLAR BEAR KILLED TO SAVE MAN WHO PUT ARM INTO CAGE
By Martin Gansberg
THE NEW YORK TIMES
June 6, 1971
At that point Eddie Rodriquez, the lionkeeper at the zoo, went to help the patrolman. He started pushing the bear with a stick, but to no avail.
“I fired another shot in the air,” Patrolman Dlugokecki said. “The bear sucked in more of the man’s hand, right up to the forearm. I made up my mind I’d have to shoot the bear.” As Mr. Rodriquez pushed at Skandy with the stick, the policeman fired into the left side of the animal’s chest. The bear let go of Mr. Jones’s hand, staggered back and fell dead against the fence of an adjacent unoccupied cage.
The incident was not the first of this kind at the zoo. In July, 1944, two couples broke into the zoo at 2 A.M. and climbed over the protective rail to bait a polar bear. The animal tore off the forearm of Catherine Searles, 24, of 1155 Park Avenue, before it was pulled away. That bear, named Soc, weighed 500 pounds and was seven feet tall.
Before Mr. Jones was taken to the hospital yesterday, he was treated for gashes at the Central Park police station. “I don’t know what he was thinking,” said Patrolman Dlugokecki. “I gave him a summons for feeding the animals. It’s illegal, you know.”
Once upon a time Elmer Keith took every species of large/dangerous game in N America with a .357 Magnum.
and as I would say how many babies were killed the same day by abortions ?
how many kids were killed after the parents gave the kids the keys and a phone ?
one gorilla to save a child IMHO is not even a decision
125,000 babies aborted as per The Blaze.
How does one get on the GRT (Gorilla Response Team)? As long as I get to take some hero shots, count me in.
usmcvet I read it was a shoulder shot that hit the spinal cord. But to further my example the guy sticking his arm in was now given a chance to spread his genius genes.
Thanks. Yeah I heard the .38 vs Polar Bear story years ago. I found it quickly again online but when I searched for the original article or a scan of it I come up empty.
Once upon a time Elmer Keith took every species of large/dangerous game in N America with a .357 Magnum.
Thank yo for reminding me about Keith. Father of the .357 & .44 Magnums, right?
How does one get on the GRT (Gorilla Response Team)? As long as I get to take some hero shots, count me in.
Yeah but you only get called out once every 30-40 years. I bet most of the time is spent cleaning up turds.
Once upon a time Elmer Keith took every species of large/dangerous game in N America with a .357 Magnum.
What you are leaving out is how many the fvckwad wounded and let run off to die.
I used to open Guns and Ammo to Elmer Keith, first thing, every issue. Then I read 'Hell, I Was There' and learned he had no hunting ethics.
What you are leaving out is how many the fvckwad wounded and let run off to die.
I used to open Guns and Ammo to Elmer Keith, first thing, every issue. Then I read 'Hell, I Was There' and learned he had no hunting ethics.
And is the number of wounded animals cited in his book?
Thank yo for reminding me about Keith. Father of the .357 & .44 Magnums, right?
And the 41 mag, don't forget about the 41!
It's the "just right" mag for me!
I'm guessing it was a 308. Either that or a 30-06, but I still say 308.
I used to open Guns and Ammo to Elmer Keith, first thing, every issue. Then I read 'Hell, I Was There' and learned he had no hunting ethics.
I read the same Keith stuff and though his bluster would annoy me at times, I never got the idea he was OK with wounding game for fun.
His formative years out west as a ranch hand/rancher did show, but was not untypical for the era.
Keith, Askins, Cooper, etc... I don't see many modern writers/bloggers in the same class.
None of these guys were perfect, some were annoying at times. But along with O'Connor I still have some nostalgia for their writing. And many of their core points influenced what we use now, and still occasionally do.
It took several decades for me to come to appreciate Blackhawks, and now I want a 45 Long Colt to play with
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/13336051_1158647454194385_1382843040380781590_n.jpg?oh=430ef424f1553f4c0dc4ee339929665b&oe=57DEE26F
What you are leaving out is how many the fvckwad wounded and let run off to die.
I used to open Guns and Ammo to Elmer Keith, first thing, every issue. Then I read 'Hell, I Was There' and learned he had no hunting ethics.
And another hero becomes mortal. I love reading old stuff but every so often I come across something like this and I'm "wtf?!?" the rest of the day. To think Edison electrocuted a live elephant for crowds to show how dangerous alternating current is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_%28elephant%29
And is the number of wounded animals cited in his book?
Primarily this would occur when he was shooting uber long range at big game. And, no he doesn't cite the number of animals, and I didn't make a check sheet, but you could if you like.
Mistakes happen, but you don't take shots on game in the spirit of 'let's see if I can do this.'
Sorry if my views don't mesh with yours.
Averageman
06-02-16, 16:56
And another hero becomes mortal. I love reading old stuff but every so often I come across something like this and I'm "wtf?!?" the rest of the day. To think Edison electrocuted a live elephant for crowds to show how dangerous alternating current is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_%28elephant%29
I think after screwing over Tesla and finding out Tesla was right and he (Edison) was wrong, he went more than a little nuts. He did the same in various demonstrations with dogs in order to wind contracts that otherwise would have went to Tesla's system.
I believe the whole issue between the two came down to Edison and Tesla disagreeing about some money that Tesla believed was owed to him.
Moose-Knuckle
06-03-16, 01:05
I'm team Tesla, **** Thomas Eidson. I came upon this t-shirt and can't remember when I laughed so hard. I've posted it on my FB and so far no one gets it, sad.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7070/27331709592_09d7c17c0d_b.jpg
I'm team Tesla, **** Thomas Eidson. I came upon this t-shirt and can't remember when I laughed so hard. I've posted it on my FB and so far no one gets it, sad.
You need better FB friends.
http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.49743712.5851/raf,220x200,075,f,101010:01c5ca27c6.u3.jpg
donlapalma
06-03-16, 09:08
I'm team Tesla, **** Thomas Eidson. I came upon this t-shirt and can't remember when I laughed so hard.
I'm guessing you've seen this already?
https://youtu.be/gJ1Mz7kGVf0
If not, I think you'll like it.
Moose-Knuckle
06-04-16, 00:27
You need better FB friends.
http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.49743712.5851/raf,220x200,075,f,101010:01c5ca27c6.u3.jpg
That Sagan "metal" logo is awesome! I've scorched Earth my "friends" list a couple of times now after I see some of the bovine feces some people support like the whole men in little girls bathrooms fiasco.
I'm guessing you've seen this already?
https://youtu.be/gJ1Mz7kGVf0
If not, I think you'll like it.
HAH! No I hadn't seen that but it is not only funny but spot on.
Boba Fett v2
06-04-16, 22:36
https://pics.onsizzle.com/and-just-like-that-a-gorilla-shut-everyone-up-aboutbathrooms-2675166.png
Cincinnati Gorilla Killing: Mother Not Charged in Shooting of Harambe, Prosecutor’s Office Says
http://ktla.com/2016/06/06/cincinnati-gorilla-killing-prosecutor-to-decide-on-charges-in-shooting-of-harambe/
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 01:06
Really poor tradename for ammo in light of the shooting:
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/range-report-gorilla-ammunition-silverback/?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Chronicle+061116--2016-06-11+23%3A00%3A00&sc_src=email_404635&sc_lid=12475292&sc_uid=OuQbXmkgtN&sc_llid=1005750&sc_eh=866b7b36f5687c561
I have been using Gorilla Ammunition for only a few months but have come to respect the brand integrity. I often see preposterous claims concerning velocity, expansion or what a bullet may be capable of. The claims are seldom borne out.
The performance is based upon sound manufacture and intelligent choice in projectiles. I have been able to test the Silverback line in .45 ACP.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160612/5c36ec902f74d02e3220a4bfcf7ec7b1.jpg
Since someone else bumped this thread I couldn't resist posting this.
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