View Full Version : Instead of a border wall...
Straight Shooter
05-30-16, 15:03
For a long time now, years in fact, Ive wondered why other things haven't been suggested to stop the illegal invasion on our southern border, besides just building a border wall..which I AM for 100%.
So, for arguments sake only. Lets say we got a Trump -like individual for POTUS. Then a veto proof majority in Congress.
Can they legally pass a law to stop any & all state & federal aid of ANY kind, gents I mean stop EVERYTHING short of just maybe emergency room care, if that even.
Then, make it a federal law making it a crime to hire an illegal alien, period. STIFF fines & jail time mandatory.
Any money sent back from here taxed at a 50% rate.
As we catch them, we deport them.
No more anchor babies, period. If mother was illegal-so is the child.
Are these things LEGALLY possible?
Im looking for straight answers, NOT opinions..NOT a bunch of bullshit hyperbole.
Ive always thought that by taking away every incentive to come here...they wont come here. If they knew that they are living under fear of deportation, and NO aid of any any kind 24/7..they'd either leave or not come in the first place.
Am I wrong, and is any of this legally possible.
Eurodriver
05-30-16, 15:35
Some of what you describe would require amending the constitution which would require more than congress - also 2/3 of the states would need to ratify.
Specifically the anchor baby elimination. However if you're getting constitutional amendments passed you can literally make anything legal or illegal no matter how stupid it is. See federal income tax and prohibition as examples.
As far as laws go - it is already illegal to hire illegal immigrants. It is illegal to illegally enter the USA as well.
What we need is not more laws - just enforcement of the laws we already have.
How can you tax the money that I already made and paid taxes on? How would you know how much I would send if any? And how would you know if I'm illegal? I'm not illegal and I send money!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Straight Shooter
05-30-16, 16:20
How can you tax the money that I already made and paid taxes on? How would you know how much I would send if any? And how would you know if I'm illegal? I'm not illegal and I send money!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
The same damn way money is already double & triple taxed as is, period.
As to knowing if you are illegal or not, I guess I.D could be presented at the time showing residence status, and if legal..then no tax.
AGAIN- NOT getting into a pissing match or an argument over everyones personal situation...make your own thread for that. Ive asked questions Im seeking educated, knowledgable answers to.
How can you tax the money that I already made and paid taxes on? How would you know how much I would send if any? And how would you know if I'm illegal? I'm not illegal and I send money!
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Put the onus on those institutions wiring the money out of the US. Require them to tax it. But, I'm in favor of fewer laws and certainly fewer tax laws. I do not agree with this idea.
And as Euro stated, entering the US illegally is already illegal. As is hiring illegals. Start enforcing those laws. Start keeping track of foreigners who have overstayed their visa, then immediately deport them.
Put the onus on those institutions wiring the money out of the US. Require them to tax it.
And watch international trade grind to a halt... Taxing money as it heads out of the nation (for any purpose) is economic suicide.
We need to enforce existing laws, and cut federal funds for any state or city refusing to do so. They can rattle the saber to make sure that Bruce can pee in the ladies room in North Carolina, they damn sure could do it to make sure that cities and states are turning over people with expired visas to ICE.
The same damn way money is already double & triple taxed as is, period.
As to knowing if you are illegal or not, I guess I.D could be presented at the time showing residence status, and if legal..then no tax.
AGAIN- NOT getting into a pissing match or an argument over everyones personal situation...make your own thread for that. Ive asked questions Im seeking educated, knowledgable answers to.
This isn't about individual situations. I earn my money and I can send to anyone I please. People get all pissy when a cop asks for ID for no reason but I have to bring my passport to send money? What if I stuff cash in an envelope or a Fed ex box? What do you ask for then
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
It would be easier just to annex Mexico, make it a commonwealth, make English the official language, and start collecting back taxes.
Trump has stated the day he is sworn in he will let the Border Patrol do their job. Which mean apprehend, and deport. ICE will also be back to work, actually responding to ICE holds and doing investigations.
That alone will make an impact.
No see, that's racist, somehow...
SilverBullet432
05-30-16, 19:29
What we need is not more laws - just enforcement of the laws we already have.
Thank you! We do need better enforcement. As for the "anchor baby" comment: slightly offensive but meh. I've been called worse. :sarcastic: last time I checked, I was an active member of society and paid my taxes :sarcastic:
You can't tax money going out of the country. Economic suicide as someone has already stated. However according to SCOTUS you can apply a fee without much legal ado. So fee the crap out of person to person transfer across the southern border.
As for the rest. There are solutions already in place for most of them. It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens. Nobody enforces it cause that slave labor serves both sides of the political spectrum. Illegal aliens aren't supposed to be receiving tax based benefits. Nobody enforces it cause the slaves serve both sides of the political spectrum. As far as anchor babies goes there is a solution to that. First don't send ambulance across the border. Don't allow pregnant people in on tourist visas or any other visas. Drop a baby the baby is a citizen mom and dad not so much. If you're here illegally if you want the kid to stay put him up for adoption. If not when the kid turns 18 he can come back. Mom and dad are banned forever. Here legally and drop a baby. Apply for permanent resident status and go through the process of becoming a citizen.
With all that stated, we really neither need or want more government asshattery in our lives. There are zillions of lines of code (fed, state, local) to handle the situation. Our elected officials at EVERY level of government simply ignore them. We would be 10000000x better off simply finding people to elect who are willing to do their jobs and a force existing laws.
Thank you! We do need better enforcement. As for the "anchor baby" comment: slightly offensive but meh. I've been called worse. :sarcastic: last time I checked, I was an active member of society and paid my taxes :sarcastic:
But, but, that doesn't fit the narrative.
Some people talk about giving local law enforcement powers to enforce the portions of the US Code pertaining to immigration. There are pitfalls to that line of though, though.
But, but, that doesn't fit the narrative.
Some people talk about giving local law enforcement powers to enforce the portions of the US Code pertaining to immigration. There are pitfalls to that line of though, though.
You don't need to give local LEO the powers to enforce fed immigration laws. They need to enforce local laws against illegal's gaining tax benefits, jobs and such. When they call ICE those guys need to show up and do something more than ignore it or issue a court appearance ticket.
However according to SCOTUS you can apply a fee without much legal ado. So fee the crap out of person to person transfer across the southern border
And then I have fun paying for my vacation rental when I can finally get away from work because of absurd fees? Meanwhile, any enterprising businessman with half a brain will simply work to set up a PUPID beneficiary transfer system business to business from the US to southern nations. (Oh wait, we have that, it's called Western Union)
You don't need to give local LEO the powers to enforce fed immigration laws. They need to enforce local laws against illegal's gaining tax benefits, jobs and such. When they call ICE those guys need to show up and do something more than ignore it or issue a court appearance ticket.
Bingo. Like say you run into "Jose Blow" during an investigation where he is a person of interest. "J.B." comes back with no local contacts, and not on file through NCIC. "J.B." does not have social security number or valid form of I.D. Well one of two things are going on. "J.B." is either giving you false identification, or he is an illegal immigrant that may or may not be giving you correct info. Either way he should be taken to jail and put on an ICE hold/retainer (and charged with providing false identification through whatever jurisdiction you have authority). ICE then should show up and conduct an investigation.
But that doesn't happen anymore, because the Obama Admin doesn't want it to happen.
daddyusmaximus
05-30-16, 21:02
What we need is not more laws - just enforcement of the laws we already have.
This is what those in power refuse to accept.
Trump has stated the day he is sworn in he will let the Border Patrol do their job. Which mean apprehend, and deport. ICE will also be back to work, actually responding to ICE holds and doing investigations.
That alone will make an impact.
Really won't take much more than that. You won't get all of them obviously, but you don't stop arresting crack dealers and pedophiles simply because they are hard to catch.
Bingo. Like say you run into "Jose Blow" during an investigation where he is a person of interest. "J.B." comes back with no local contacts, and not on file through NCIC. "J.B." does not have social security number or valid form of I.D. Well one of two things are going on. "J.B." is either giving you false identification, or he is an illegal immigrant that may or may not be giving you correct info. Either way he should be taken to jail and put on an ICE hold/retainer (and charged with providing false identification through whatever jurisdiction you have authority). ICE then should show up and conduct an investigation.
But that doesn't happen anymore, because the Obama Admin doesn't want it to happen.
I don't think it happened too often at all.
I think a lot of our federal agencies dealing with the deal have always been somewhat corrupt. I lived in CA in the early 70's, we kept in touch with some folks we met there. The gal worked at a cosmetic factory, she was a supervisor because she was bi-lingual. It was kind of funny, most of the employees were what she called 'tempos' and very few spoke any English. She told us that you could always tells when INS was going to come through, most of the tempos wouldn't show up. Pretty scrrewed up.
As an LEO I caught several van loads of illegals, aside from the fact the Sheriff didn't want them clogging up his jail, INS wouldn't make the 3 hour drive to pick them up.
Years later, the town I live in has a fairly large Hispanic population, I'm acquainted with a couple who are big Reagan fans, they got amnesty. You could always tells when the INS were needing some stats, they'd drive to our town and detain the kitchen staff at a Mexican Restaurant and a meat processing plant.
As far as I'm concerned it won't change as long as we aren't throwing CEO's in jail for having illegals on the payroll. You think Tyson would have one illegal employee if the CEO knew he was going to jail? Hell no, the managers would get the word pretty quick.
There is money to be made.
If the American public were willing to pay a lot more for.....fruit, beef and some other staples that require intensive physical labor or abhorrent conditions, the current situation may be solved. America would hire Americans to do the jobs currently being done by illegals. Doubt it would ever happen but just putting up a wall and calling it good would create more problems IMO.
SilverBullet432
05-30-16, 23:28
If the American public were willing to pay a lot more for.....fruit, beef and some other staples that require intensive physical labor or abhorrent conditions, the current situation may be solved. America would hire Americans to do the jobs currently being done by illegals. Doubt it would ever happen but just putting up a wall and calling it good would create more problems IMO.
That's the truth no one sees. Even people (not just mexicans) who aren't illegal are out there cleaning houses/hotels, picking fruit doing yard work everyday to feed their families.. People bitch about illegals taking "jobs" Grab a mop and go get a "job"!!
If the American public were willing to pay a lot more for.....fruit, beef and some other staples that require intensive physical labor or abhorrent conditions, the current situation may be solved. America would hire Americans to do the jobs currently being done by illegals. Doubt it would ever happen but just putting up a wall and calling it good would create more problems IMO.
I hate this lie.
When I was in high school in Iowa I detassled corn. This is one of the worst shit agricultural jobs there is. Picking oranges would be heaven in contrast. But there was no shortage of Iowa teenagers who actually signed waivers agreeing to LESS than minimum wage to do this horrible shit job.
It begins at dawn and you are wearing sweats as you walk through drenched cornfields, mud and spiderwebs every 10 yards pulling tassels out of the tops of cornstalks by hand. You do this for hours as the sun comes up, drives humidity to 98% and raises the temperature from the low 60s to the mid 90s and you are now wearing completely wet, muddy sweats covered in bugs and have been walking for six hours.
At this point you stop and eat whatever you bagged for lunch that has been sitting in a hot, stifling school bus for 6 hours. Then in a half hour you do the same thing, usually without your sweat shirt for another 4 hours. The sun at this point bakes your arms giving you a nice "farmer tan" which is a white toro with brown arms.
When you leave the bus after it brings you back to town the mud caked on whatever pants you wore breaks off like clay pottery with every step. Your shoes are destroyed beyond any salvation and you stink worse than any day laborer you ever met.
When my grandparents were kids they detasseled corn. When my Dad was a kid he detasseled corn. When I left Iowa I remember seeing the kids coming home from detassling corn. We don't need illegals or even immigrants, we just need more Iowa kids. There were also plenty of Iowa kids working at the local meat packs and pig farms. I guarantee you there is no more disgusting job than what happens on a pig farm but Iowa kids do it all day, every day.
The prices for corn and bacon were just fine when I left Iowa. Maybe people in the cities need to breed less and import some Iowa labor. We also mowed our own yards, cleaned our own houses and things like that. Really the ONLY thing we needed immigrants for was to have a couple really decent Mexican restaurants and thankfully Iowa has enough legal Mexican immigrants, as well as second and third generation Americans of Mexican origin, to solve that need and then some.
Moose-Knuckle
05-31-16, 02:18
I hate this lie.
Me too.
I couldn't legally work until I was 16 here, way before then I would mow yards for money. I even roofed one summer. First official job was flipping burgers at a Sonic Drive-In. To this day I still mow my own damn lawn. My father picked cotton with his mother and brothers when he was still in single digits, at the end of the day his fingers bled.
Deport illegals, round up all the welfare bums, and presto chango!
But let's call this what it really is, GLOBALISM.
Averageman
05-31-16, 06:40
Me too.
I couldn't legally work until I was 16 here, way before then I would mow yards for money. I even roofed one summer. First official job was flipping burgers at a Sonic Drive-In. To this day I still mow my own damn lawn. My father picked cotton with his mother and brothers when he was still in single digits, at the end of the day his fingers bled.
Deport illegals, round up all the welfare bums, and presto chango!
But let's call this what it really is, GLOBALISM.
I got my Union job as a cement laborer at 18 in 1979. I worked in Chicago building a high rise Hotel that summer and the Union would send a rep out the day after payday first of the month.
If you weren't a Citizen, you didn't get a Union Card, if you didn't have a card you simply didn't work. You didn't want to be on that building and not have a card or someone who looked like Pauly Walnuts would have a serious talk with you at the edge of the building. I saw this happen one time and that guy was seriously shaken and left immediately.
It's really not that difficult. That's how Middle Class Kids used to pay for College. Like Corn in Iowa, the work sometimes sucked, but you did it and took some pride in it.
I don't blame the guys coming across to work, I blame the Democratic Party for usurping the laws in order to gain money for campaigns and later votes.
If you want to change it lock up the guys hiring them, it will stop right then and there.
I hate this lie.
When I was in high school in Iowa I detassled corn. This is one of the worst shit agricultural jobs there is. Picking oranges would be heaven in contrast. But there was no shortage of Iowa teenagers who actually signed waivers agreeing to LESS than minimum wage to do this horrible shit job.
It begins at dawn and you are wearing sweats as you walk through drenched cornfields, mud and spiderwebs every 10 yards pulling tassels out of the tops of cornstalks by hand. You do this for hours as the sun comes up, drives humidity to 98% and raises the temperature from the low 60s to the mid 90s and you are now wearing completely wet, muddy sweats covered in bugs and have been walking for six hours.
At this point you stop and eat whatever you bagged for lunch that has been sitting in a hot, stifling school bus for 6 hours. Then in a half hour you do the same thing, usually without your sweat shirt for another 4 hours. The sun at this point bakes your arms giving you a nice "farmer tan" which is a white toro with brown arms.
When you leave the bus after it brings you back to town the mud caked on whatever pants you wore breaks off like clay pottery with every step. Your shoes are destroyed beyond any salvation and you stink worse than any day laborer you ever met.
When my grandparents were kids they detasseled corn. When my Dad was a kid he detasseled corn. When I left Iowa I remember seeing the kids coming home from detassling corn. We don't need illegals or even immigrants, we just need more Iowa kids. There were also plenty of Iowa kids working at the local meat packs and pig farms. I guarantee you there is no more disgusting job than what happens on a pig farm but Iowa kids do it all day, every day.
The prices for corn and bacon were just fine when I left Iowa. Maybe people in the cities need to breed less and import some Iowa labor. We also mowed our own yards, cleaned our own houses and things like that. Really the ONLY thing we needed immigrants for was to have a couple really decent Mexican restaurants and thankfully Iowa has enough legal Mexican immigrants, as well as second and third generation Americans of Mexican origin, to solve that need and then some.
How is what I said a lie?? I am not understanding you. All I am saying is, if Americans were hired to do some of the jobs that illegals current do, it would be a start. Of course that would mean the Americans working those jobs would get paid a lot more (Lol, $15 minimum wage) and therefore we as a society would pay much more for the products as a result. Like I said, probably won't happen. Americans want cheap grocery store products.
How is what I said a lie?? I am not understanding you. All I am saying is, if Americans were hired to do some of the jobs that illegals current do, it would be a start. Of course that would mean the Americans working those jobs would get paid a lot more (Lol, $15 minimum wage) and therefore we as a society would pay much more for the products as a result. Like I said, probably won't happen. Americans want cheap grocery store products.
I think he meant the lie about Americans NOT wanting certain jobs and when they do take then they would only take them for higher wages than illegal's. Maybe lie is a strong word but there is definitely a HUGE misunderstanding about nine, who wants them and what the going rate should be. From a business perspective illegal's are easier to control and abuse. They are criminals and as such businesses will get away with more than they could with citizens. I wooed from 16 on. Flipping burgers, roofing houses, selling Scuba Gear, repairing wind tunnels, running destructive tests and now running major projects. Since 16 I've held a job. A good chunk of it at minimum wage or even below when there was commission to be made. I did it because I had enough dignity and self respect to want to be on my own feet instead of getting hand outs. The LIE is that Americans don't want certain jobs when the fact is the tax payer gives Americans the reason to not take any job available. Welfare, WIC and all that crap are enablers. They are NOT short term helping hands, but enablers for able bodied men and women to sit at home a squirt out more dependents. Take that stuff away and let a few thousand starve and see how many Americans refuse to go pick Oranges and corn or mow lawns or roof houses or ad nauseum. At the prices the market sets for their labor.
Sorry, but we have illegal's strewn throughout the country because our leadership wants a dependent and easy to control class. Illegal's are slaves and can be tossed aside at a whim and so they are obedient and vote for those who promise to keep them fed. FSA are slaves that are easy to control and will vote for those who promise to keep them fed. Free men who work, think and can stand on their own 2 feet want more shit than just sustenance. Bad bad bad for the local politician who can't deliver anything aside form hot air.
KalashniKEV
05-31-16, 08:51
It would be easier just to annex Mexico, make it a commonwealth, make English the official language, and start collecting back taxes.
If we dropped every bomb we did on Iraq on Mexico, and then spent $1.7 Trillion on reconstruction, I'd be living on the beach Quintana Roo RFN.
Plus, we would actually have a reason to attack Mexico.
(Also, if you spent $490 Billion on Veteran's benefits and aid without going to Iraq, you'd have the best people killing each other to get a slot to serve in the military)
I hate this lie.
When I was in high school in Iowa I detassled corn. This is one of the worst shit agricultural jobs there is. Picking oranges would be heaven in contrast. But there was no shortage of Iowa teenagers who actually signed waivers agreeing to LESS than minimum wage to do this horrible shit job.
It begins at dawn and you are wearing sweats as you walk through drenched cornfields, mud and spiderwebs every 10 yards pulling tassels out of the tops of cornstalks by hand. You do this for hours as the sun comes up, drives humidity to 98% and raises the temperature from the low 60s to the mid 90s and you are now wearing completely wet, muddy sweats covered in bugs and have been walking for six hours.
At this point you stop and eat whatever you bagged for lunch that has been sitting in a hot, stifling school bus for 6 hours. Then in a half hour you do the same thing, usually without your sweat shirt for another 4 hours. The sun at this point bakes your arms giving you a nice "farmer tan" which is a white toro with brown arms.
When you leave the bus after it brings you back to town the mud caked on whatever pants you wore breaks off like clay pottery with every step. Your shoes are destroyed beyond any salvation and you stink worse than any day laborer you ever met.
When my grandparents were kids they detasseled corn. When my Dad was a kid he detasseled corn. When I left Iowa I remember seeing the kids coming home from detassling corn. We don't need illegals or even immigrants, we just need more Iowa kids. There were also plenty of Iowa kids working at the local meat packs and pig farms. I guarantee you there is no more disgusting job than what happens on a pig farm but Iowa kids do it all day, every day.
The prices for corn and bacon were just fine when I left Iowa. Maybe people in the cities need to breed less and import some Iowa labor. We also mowed our own yards, cleaned our own houses and things like that. Really the ONLY thing we needed immigrants for was to have a couple really decent Mexican restaurants and thankfully Iowa has enough legal Mexican immigrants, as well as second and third generation Americans of Mexican origin, to solve that need and then some.
SteyrAUG:
Excuse me, I'm an irreverent fvck, but your comments reminded me of a Doonesbury story line:
'We're up near the visual cortex now, that part of the brain responsible for processing stimuli received from Governor Reagan's eyes.'
'Unfortunately, a severe perceptual disorder within the cortex itself has plagued the candidate's vision for years…'
'Instead of looking forward through clear eyes, Reagan is only able to see backwards through a rose colored mist.'
'Tragically, his condition is thought to be inoperable.'
(I think I have everything that Trudeau and Bill Watterson - Calvin and Hobbes - ever published in book form - huge fan)
My point being, I don't know about your area of the country, but for the most part high schoolers don't do those jobs anymore - they are taken by adults working second jobs or, sadly, as their primary income source.
I had paper routes from the time I was 11 or 12 up through high school. I've detasseled and bucked bales. I've worked as a broiler cook. I've sold ice cream on a three wheeled bicycle. I've mowed lawns, raked leaves and done general cleanup. All of this was before I graduated from high school.
Today those jobs are filled by adults - in my area many of them cornbread white boys.
And guess what? Those things all pay more percentage-wise than they used to. What does it cost to have your lawn mowed today? Why are we having the discussion about the 15.00 minimum wage? Because those former high-school entry level jobs are now best I can get jobs.
The economic picture has changed, period. Getting rid of illegal labor will do several things - a big thing among them either close down or increase wages at packing houses. Smaller rural towns are already dying because there is nothing sustainable to hold their kids in them. Therefore many of the ag jobs are held by illegals who will work cheaper. So if you deplete that workforce, wages will have to rise to entice workers back into those areas. Therefore prices will rise.
If you remove a 'hostage' workforce, you are going to have to pay a 'free' workforce more. Ergo, prices rise.
26 Inf: excellent point in the whole adults doing menial labor due to layoffs, outsourcing and all the other Wallstreet appeasement processes that major employers have been doing for decades.
The issues of employment and such are considerably more involved than simple burger flippers and corn pickers. It all ties back to the class of person we want living in the USA. Free thinkers who pose problems or slaves who accept the smallest of things as divine gifts.
How is what I said a lie?? I am not understanding you. All I am saying is, if Americans were hired to do some of the jobs that illegals current do, it would be a start. Of course that would mean the Americans working those jobs would get paid a lot more (Lol, $15 minimum wage) and therefore we as a society would pay much more for the products as a result. Like I said, probably won't happen. Americans want cheap grocery store products.
One piece of the puzzle you are missing, and most of America is also; a big piece mind you- is the COST illegals pass on to us from free healthcare medicine, housing, cost of jailing, schools, etc, etc, etc. These are HUGE costs we all get the privelage to cover.
I'd gladly pay more for my groceries if I wasn't taxed to death to pay for the free shit these illegals steal from me.
And then there is the cost of money being exported out of our economy To Mexico- again a big cost we all share the burden of.
People are thinking small when they only see cheap labor. That cheap labor is the most expensive thing in this country when all variables and costs are taken into consideration. Seriously big money.
And that's not even getting into "political cache"...
The South blew it when they embraced slavery. Illegal aliens are the real way to go: docile, controllable workforce, minimal wages, zero obligations, and any "problems" (crime, health issues, entitlements, schooling, etc.) automatically sloughed off to the clueless taxpayers. Why buy and maintain a tractor when you can take the first one you see, run it into the ground, walk away, and then complain about how unfair life is?
There are days when I think we are VSF.
How is what I said a lie?? I am not understanding you. All I am saying is, if Americans were hired to do some of the jobs that illegals current do, it would be a start. Of course that would mean the Americans working those jobs would get paid a lot more (Lol, $15 minimum wage) and therefore we as a society would pay much more for the products as a result. Like I said, probably won't happen. Americans want cheap grocery store products.
The lie is that it would actually cost more to hire Americans in most cases. Please see my example of being paid LESS than minimum wage.
SteyrAUG:
Excuse me, I'm an irreverent fvck, but your comments reminded me of a Doonesbury story line:
'We're up near the visual cortex now, that part of the brain responsible for processing stimuli received from Governor Reagan's eyes.'
'Unfortunately, a severe perceptual disorder within the cortex itself has plagued the candidate's vision for years…'
'Instead of looking forward through clear eyes, Reagan is only able to see backwards through a rose colored mist.'
'Tragically, his condition is thought to be inoperable.'
(I think I have everything that Trudeau and Bill Watterson - Calvin and Hobbes - ever published in book form - huge fan)
My point being, I don't know about your area of the country, but for the most part high schoolers don't do those jobs anymore - they are taken by adults working second jobs or, sadly, as their primary income source.
I had paper routes from the time I was 11 or 12 up through high school. I've detasseled and bucked bales. I've worked as a broiler cook. I've sold ice cream on a three wheeled bicycle. I've mowed lawns, raked leaves and done general cleanup. All of this was before I graduated from high school.
Today those jobs are filled by adults - in my area many of them cornbread white boys.
And guess what? Those things all pay more percentage-wise than they used to. What does it cost to have your lawn mowed today? Why are we having the discussion about the 15.00 minimum wage? Because those former high-school entry level jobs are now best I can get jobs.
The economic picture has changed, period. Getting rid of illegal labor will do several things - a big thing among them either close down or increase wages at packing houses. Smaller rural towns are already dying because there is nothing sustainable to hold their kids in them. Therefore many of the ag jobs are held by illegals who will work cheaper. So if you deplete that workforce, wages will have to rise to entice workers back into those areas. Therefore prices will rise.
If you remove a 'hostage' workforce, you are going to have to pay a 'free' workforce more. Ergo, prices rise.
Well whatever they changed, they should change it back.
Scrapping NAFTA would be a start.
Well whatever they changed, they should change it back.
Scrapping NAFTA would be a start.
That did seem to cost us some manufacturing jobs, didn't it?
I think our troubles really began in the 70's when the mutual funds lit off and further grew in the 80's - it was during this time period that I feel the mindset of business decision making shifted from what was good for the business to what was good for the shareholders.
There had always been extremely wealthy folks - Robber Barons if you would - but to me the rapid growth of mutual funds concentrated an enormous amount of power in the hands of very few people, and their you go.
Please remember as you dissect my theory, that I am at heart, a simple shit.
I'm just going to drop this here.
www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Simple, easy and...... not required.
I have decided to take offense to the illegal immigration issue being a Hispanic issue. Many different people from all over the world would like a chance to come here. Saying the only people who matter in issues of immigration are the (mainly) Hispanics who are able to get here illegally is actually racist.
That did seem to cost us some manufacturing jobs, didn't it?
I think our troubles really began in the 70's when the mutual funds lit off and further grew in the 80's - it was during this time period that I feel the mindset of business decision making shifted from what was good for the business to what was good for the shareholders.
There had always been extremely wealthy folks - Robber Barons if you would - but to me the rapid growth of mutual funds concentrated an enormous amount of power in the hands of very few people, and their you go.
Please remember as you dissect my theory, that I am at heart, a simple shit.
We could probably take that back to the 1920s. But I think the key thing is we used to build things HERE using our own resources.
When they day came that it was cheaper to float steel all the way from China rather than manufacture it in Pittsburgh, something horrible had changed. When we were no longer capable of producing a decent car at a decent price, something horrible had changed. When we no longer even made out own textiles something seriously horrible had changed. I mean how much price difference can there be on a cotton t shirt?
That we would then compound that horrible situation by having cars and TVs manufactured in Mexico and sold with the lie that it would dramatically reduce illegal immigration was just the nail in the coffin. Our infrastructure was already bad enough, now we don't really have one. And there are too many requirements put in place that would prevent us from effectively reestablishing a manufacturing infrastructure.
Straight Shooter
06-01-16, 07:00
MODS- PLEASE lock this thread.
MODS- PLEASE lock this thread.
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brickboy240
06-01-16, 10:52
It figures that someone living in Wyoming would say the illegals are a "docile work force."
Anyone else in a border state care to clue him in?
Illegals are a HUGE problem here. They cause tons of drunk driving injuries and deaths as well as other problems for our state.
It figures that someone living in Wyoming would say the illegals are a "docile work force."
Anyone else in a border state care to clue him in?
Illegals are a HUGE problem here. They cause tons of drunk driving injuries and deaths as well as other problems for our state.
Here here.
I'm just going to drop this here.
www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Simple, easy and...... not required.
I have decided to take offense to the illegal immigration issue being a Hispanic issue. Many different people from all over the world would like a chance to come here. Saying the only people who matter in issues of immigration are the (mainly) Hispanics who are able to get here illegally is actually racist.
Todd, What percentage of the illegal immigrant population that we are discussing here do you think is "Hispanics"?
I'd guess at least 75 percent. I know I've seen stats that illegals are over half Mexican. Asian and Central/South America probably split most of the rest.
Thank you! We do need better enforcement. As for the "anchor baby" comment: slightly offensive but meh. I've been called worse. :sarcastic: last time I checked, I was an active member of society and paid my taxes :sarcastic:
That what they are, anchor babies. They also are not American citizens.
If the American public were willing to pay a lot more for.....fruit, beef and some other staples that require intensive physical labor or abhorrent conditions, the current situation may be solved. America would hire Americans to do the jobs currently being done by illegals. Doubt it would ever happen but just putting up a wall and calling it good would create more problems IMO.
You solve the problem by getting 50 million american off their welfare consuming ass and putting them to work in the fields, then kicking the illegals out.
How is what I said a lie?? I am not understanding you. All I am saying is, if Americans were hired to do some of the jobs that illegals current do, it would be a start. Of course that would mean the Americans working those jobs would get paid a lot more (Lol, $15 minimum wage) and therefore we as a society would pay much more for the products as a result. Like I said, probably won't happen. Americans want cheap grocery store products.
It is a lie. You cut welfare to Americans and put them to work.
SteyrAUG:
Excuse me, I'm an irreverent fvck, but your comments reminded me of a Doonesbury story line:
'We're up near the visual cortex now, that part of the brain responsible for processing stimuli received from Governor Reagan's eyes.'
'Unfortunately, a severe perceptual disorder within the cortex itself has plagued the candidate's vision for years…'
'Instead of looking forward through clear eyes, Reagan is only able to see backwards through a rose colored mist.'
'Tragically, his condition is thought to be inoperable.'
(I think I have everything that Trudeau and Bill Watterson - Calvin and Hobbes - ever published in book form - huge fan)
My point being, I don't know about your area of the country, but for the most part high schoolers don't do those jobs anymore - they are taken by adults working second jobs or, sadly, as their primary income source.
I had paper routes from the time I was 11 or 12 up through high school. I've detasseled and bucked bales. I've worked as a broiler cook. I've sold ice cream on a three wheeled bicycle. I've mowed lawns, raked leaves and done general cleanup. All of this was before I graduated from high school.
Today those jobs are filled by adults - in my area many of them cornbread white boys.
And guess what? Those things all pay more percentage-wise than they used to. What does it cost to have your lawn mowed today? Why are we having the discussion about the 15.00 minimum wage? Because those former high-school entry level jobs are now best I can get jobs.
The economic picture has changed, period. Getting rid of illegal labor will do several things - a big thing among them either close down or increase wages at packing houses. Smaller rural towns are already dying because there is nothing sustainable to hold their kids in them. Therefore many of the ag jobs are held by illegals who will work cheaper. So if you deplete that workforce, wages will have to rise to entice workers back into those areas. Therefore prices will rise.
If you remove a 'hostage' workforce, you are going to have to pay a 'free' workforce more. Ergo, prices rise.
Nope
50 million Americans on welfare not working.
Take their welfare away. They either work or stave. Self correcting problem.
I'm just going to drop this here.
www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Simple, easy and...... not required.
I have decided to take offense to the illegal immigration issue being a Hispanic issue. Many different people from all over the world would like a chance to come here. Saying the only people who matter in issues of immigration are the (mainly) Hispanics who are able to get here illegally is actually racist.
The vast majority of illegals are hispanic.
The vast majority of illegals are hispanic.
They are Mexican/Latin American/South American.
Hispanic is not a race. Not trying to be "that guy", but that irks me.
That's like saying everyone in Canada is a Francophone.
It's a language not a race. And Racially they are mostly a mix of Iberian-European and Indigenous. Some more ethnically white than others.
But just say'n
They are Mexican/Latin American/South American.
Hispanic is not a race. Not trying to be "that guy", but that irks me.
That's like saying everyone in Canada is a Francophone.
It's a language not a race. And Racially they are mostly a mix of Iberian-European and Indigenous. Some more ethnically white than others.
But just say'n
Whatever :rolleyes:
I wish to point out that agribusiness interests, the construction industry, and hotel/motel corporations make up one big lobby to make certain that the workers will keep on coming. Money talks, and BS walks---so now you see.
Nope
50 million Americans on welfare not working.
Take their welfare away. They either work or stave. Self correcting problem.
That is a very simplistic view of the problem as well as being an incorrect one.
Being from Nebraska you ought to understand this:
The economic picture has changed, period. Getting rid of illegal labor will do several things - a big thing among them either close down or increase wages at packing houses. Smaller rural towns are already dying because there is nothing sustainable to hold their kids in them. Therefore many of the ag jobs are held by illegals who will work cheaper. So if you deplete that workforce, wages will have to rise to entice workers back into those areas. Therefore prices will rise.
It really sucks when reality doesn't fit the dogma, doesn't it?
Granted we need to get folks off welfare, but the Nation's economic problems will not be fixed by that, alone.
That is a very simplistic view of the problem as well as being an incorrect one.
Being from Nebraska you ought to understand this:
The economic picture has changed, period. Getting rid of illegal labor will do several things - a big thing among them either close down or increase wages at packing houses. Smaller rural towns are already dying because there is nothing sustainable to hold their kids in them. Therefore many of the ag jobs are held by illegals who will work cheaper. So if you deplete that workforce, wages will have to rise to entice workers back into those areas. Therefore prices will rise.
It really sucks when reality doesn't fit the dogma, doesn't it?
Granted we need to get folks off welfare, but the Nation's economic problems will not be fixed by that, alone.
Considering they are trying to put a 3rd packing plant in my town right now, this is what I know:
I noticed you don't have your state listed on your account, funny.
They expect 1500 new school students in my town which will raise my property taxes which are already the highest in the state.
Property values will go down. This is already started.
A further increase in crime and squalor will happen. They just arrested a mexican today in the newspaper for pedophilia. There are mexicans arrested daily in the court/police report. Most of them for no operators license/registration/insurance or drugs. Another non-native committed armed robbery at an new upscale gas station this memorial weekend. This criminal is still at large. This is the first time a gas station has been held up in my lifetime.
Increase in graffiti.
Two more trailer parks in addition to the 4 we already have.
Increase in garbage (household appliances and car tires) in the state parks.
Farm animals kept in the city limits and slaughtered for personal food within city limits in residential houses.
All the rich white people my my town continue to flee for Omaha/Lincoln due to this influx of 3rd world people, along with their businesses and white collar American employees.
I will gladly pay $5 more for a piece of meat; instead of paying $8k a year in property taxes on a 2200 sq ft house and having to look at these people and deal with their bullshit. Property taxes will probably be up to $10k once the new school levy happens in the next 5 years.
I have to drive visitors to my town through pre-planned routes that are not the most direct way from point A to point B so they don't have to look at the squalor.
There is no reason why an American on welfare can't work for the same wage as a migrant.
SeriousStudent
06-01-16, 22:17
People need to post calmly, or not post at all.
Only warning before people go bye-bye.
Scottryan:
The fact is they won't, that is why there is a market for the illegals.
If they would, what makes you think that any people in the same socio-economic boat would take care of things better than the illegals?
You up by Columbus/Schulyer?
I hail from Lincoln.
Scotty brings up a great point, mobility can be an advantage. It sucks being forced from your home, but you can adapt to the environment. Not telling anyone to just "take" it, but the fight isn't always worth the cost.
Scottryan:
The fact is they won't, that is why there is a market for the illegals.
If they would, what makes you think that any people in the same socio-economic boat would take care of things better than the illegals?
You up by Columbus/Schulyer?
I hail from Lincoln.
The fact is they are paid not to work.
No it's not Columbus/Schulyer.
Poor American people worked in the packing plants 100 years ago. They can do it again.
And you tell me you are from Lincoln. How ironic. Do you realize there is a business cartel in Lincoln that does a very good job of keeping businesses like these out of Lincoln?
I am not mistaken about anything pertaining to this stuff.
As per people on welfare not working for migrant wages, I wholeheartedly agree. Work is work.
Any job is temporary and an opportunity for something better.
Minimum wage is that inkling of loathsome Socialism that goes with structured or planned economies.
If benefits and good pay were optional, we could go back to more competition, more jobs, and more mobility.
People picture some Monopoly Man or Scrooge McDuck dude screaming at Bob Cratchit declaring that his family shall go wanting.
People like that bankrupt themselves. Seen it in action.
But good people are worth retaining and we should let the market decide.
Why should I pay some dude insurance, retirement, etc for temporary manual labor when other people are willing to do it under the table and for lower wages?
I've known, and envied, people who worked, saved, and took a year or so to do what they wanted before rejoining the workforce again.
Next they'll declare that everyone 'must' have a job.
Our big issue is simply overregulation.
We the People keep voting these people in who actively wage class, race, whatever warfare so they can keep the blame ball switching hands when really...it is their fault.
So....yeah. Laissez-faire was a good thing we as a nation should rediscover
SeriousStudent
06-01-16, 23:37
Closing the thread per the OP's request.
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