View Full Version : Making G19 trigger more like a VP9
So I have both a Gen4 G19 and a VP9. I actually prefer the way the Glock fits in my hand but the trigger isn't working for me. This is my second Gen4 G19 and my first had a much better trigger.
I have shot and dry fired the shit out of this thing and it's not smoothing out. I can't pass the old dime on the front sight trick. The last hump before the break is heavy as hell. It's almost impossible for me to keep the front sight from shifting.
The trigger on the VP9 on the other hand is perfect for me.
Without modding the hell out of my Glock, which is my go to pistol, how can I make it more VP9ish? I don't want to start filing things down and adding aftermarket parts to it if at all possible.
I've done a lot of searches and most people are recommending these aftermarket triggers and I'm not sure I'm to comfortable with that.
OEM 3.5 connector, Gen 3 smooth face trigger bar. Then go put 1K rounds through it. I don't know what the VP9 trigger feels like when worn in, but if the previously mentioned configuration doesn't work out for you, G19s might not be your ticket. I'm a 1911 guy, but having started working in with a G19 set up as mentioned, I'm starting to match my par times set with the 1911s not wearing fiber optic sights.
For what it's worth, I'm running a .125 wide 10-8 fiber optic front and a 10-8 .156 rear sight.
Let me add that I didn't turn a corner in shooting Glocks until I started thinking of the trigger as more of a light double action trigger, as opposed to having any "break". The unfortunate side effect of 1911s is that other platforms feel like they have mushy triggers or that they lack "breaking the shot" because they all feel comparably mushy.
Ghost connector. I believe I added the "ultimate" to my 26. Smoothed out the "hump" and final break quite a bit.
If you've dry fired it zillions of times and nothing is improving, then maybe it's time to take this relationship to the next level. start small, no need to throw tons of money or change everything.
I've seen a lot about the Ghost connectors but there are so many of them. I don't even know where to start with those.
This is going to be a carry gun and I don't want a super light trigger pull.
I've seen a lot about the Ghost connectors but there are so many of them. I don't even know where to start with those.
This is going to be a carry gun and I don't want a super light trigger pull.
I went by this--> http://static---ghostinc.app-hosted.com/media/merchant/ghostinc/Page_Center_spread_comparison_WHITEV3_copy.pdf
and bought the "best" drop in model that didn't require any fitting.
You may want to check out the GHOST 4.5 Ranger Trigger. You can see descriptions and reviews at Brownells:
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/connector-parts/trigger-connectors-for-glock-prod25315.aspx
Following with interest. Google this, "Debunking the gen 4 trigger-connector misconceptions - my 3 part video explains..", I thought it was interesting.
I had a Gen 4 with a Ghost connector, and it was worse, replaced it with the stock and it went from terrible to not good. I have been trying to get the Gen 4 trigger like my Gen 3 but NO Luck so far. Next step is to replace the FP, FPS, trigger bar assembly, connector and Trigger spring on the Gen 4 with the Gen 3 and see what happens. The Gen 4 is not terrible but not as smooth and over a pound heavier, doesn't sound like much but it feels like 2-3 lbs more. Overall the Gen 4 is just not as smooth as the Gen 3 in reference to trigger pull, racking the slide and mag release....AND it just bugs the shit out of me.
Not sure what is going on. I shot another Gen 4 that was definitely better than mine.
IMHO I think Glock QC aint what it use to be. Good news is, it easy to get parts, and shit simple to work on.
If the break is what is what's getting you I suggest a Ghost EVO Elite. It has to be fitted though. If you want a drop in go with the Ghost Edge 3.5. It does a good job of eliminating the bump. I think I've tried most of the available connectors and it's one of the best for me.
Having said that I carry a stock triggered G19.4. I polished the internals and put a couple cases of ammo through it and it smoothed out pretty good........ or I just got used to it.
I actually shoot it better than my VP9. It might just be a familiarity thing though.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160604/f370a0ead74de3584ef101ab74c9ab79.jpg
How hard is it to fit a connector? Is it something I can do at home? What tools would I need?
From Ghost's website "The lightest Drop-in trigger pull and best Drop-in Self-Defense trigger pull all in one kit! "
I'm not looking for a competition trigger. I hope that's not what they're implying.
boombotz401
06-03-16, 20:43
If you want to stay OEM your options are limited, I've never shot a vp9 but I'd assume your not going to get the crisp DA/SA pull from a combat type Glock pistol. I own a lot of glocks, I love em but they will never have my p2000sk LEM trigger
OEM 3.5 connector- around 4lb pull with a softer break
OEM 3.5 with NY1 trigger reset- around 5.5lb pull with a rolling revolver like break
Try doing the good ol .25 cent trigger job and see if it smooths things up for you while your at it
Want a real nice trigger tuned to your personal preference?
Zev fulcrum kit
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Holy crap! That trigger is half what I paid for the Glock
boombotz401
06-03-16, 21:16
Holy crap! That trigger is half what I paid for the Glock
Yep! Lol go to USATAC.com and use coupon code zev15 for 15% off. Think it's still good
It's expensive but damn good, agency arms makes a nice trigger too
Apex makes a nice trigger for 100$ you'd be hard pressed to beat that.
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Following with interest. Google this, "Debunking the gen 4 trigger-connector misconceptions - my 3 part video explains..", I thought it was interesting.
I had a Gen 4 with a Ghost connector, and it was worse, replaced it with the stock and it went from terrible to not good. I have been trying to get the Gen 4 trigger like my Gen 3 but NO Luck so far. Next step is to replace the FP, FPS, trigger bar assembly, connector and Trigger spring on the Gen 4 with the Gen 3 and see what happens. The Gen 4 is not terrible but not as smooth and over a pound heavier, doesn't sound like much but it feels like 2-3 lbs more. Overall the Gen 4 is just not as smooth as the Gen 3 in reference to trigger pull, racking the slide and mag release....AND it just bugs the shit out of me.
Not sure what is going on. I shot another Gen 4 that was definitely better than mine.
IMHO I think Glock QC aint what it use to be. Good news is, it easy to get parts, and shit simple to work on.
Glock triggers have always been pretty inconsistent. The Gen3s have a better trigger due to the geometry change to the part of the frame that got smaller with Gen4. We first saw this when they introduced the 21SF.
VP9s are cheap enough that I think the OP should just double down on VP9s. Forcing yourself to shoot a gun you can't shoot well takes all the fun out of it and you'll just wind up not shooting.
Glock triggers have always been pretty inconsistent. The Gen3s have a better trigger due to the geometry change to the part of the frame that got smaller with Gen4. We first saw this when they introduced the 21SF.
VP9s are cheap enough that I think the OP should just double down on VP9s. Forcing yourself to shoot a gun you can't shoot well takes all the fun out of it and you'll just wind up not shooting.
I always shot the Glock better until I thought I was just going to fully invest in the VP9 due to the BTF issues I had on one pistol. Then I flip flopped back and wanted another G19. The Gen3 was better than the Gen4 and then this second Gen4 just has a heavy, shitty trigger.
Linebacker
06-03-16, 22:32
Ghost 3.5 Rocket.
I think the first thing we all need to get over is the fact that a Glock trigger will NEVER be like anything other than a Glock trigger. You swap parts till you're blue in the face, it you're not going to get it to be like a 1911 or VP9 or anything. The design is the design. My gen4 gun had a horrific trigger at over 8# on my gauge. Made the gun pretty useless. I used a Ghost 3.5 Ultimate to get the weight down to a manageable 5# and then just got used to how the trigger felt and and behaved. If you want to stay stock Glocktriggers.com sells a variety of kits made using OEM parts that they polish to high degree. They may drop the lull weight and smooth out the action to make it more predictable, but it will still be a Glock trigger. It's medium precision stamped sheet metal rubbing on stamped sheet metal. It is what it is.
I'm surprised that the G19 feels more comfy in your hand though. That is honestly the first time I've heard that.
I have a vp9, 1911, and gen 4 g19. It does have 12k+ rounds through it, but I've had several triggers and as it sits now, it has the oem trigger. Why? None made a huge difference and some weren't reliable. Ghost straight up broke. I found more time shooting and building muscle memory fixed more problems and created more strengths. Call me stupid but i personally found triggers like steroids; you'll get strong quickly but lose it if you don't have it versus getting strong slowly and actually having real muscle mass. In the same way with speed and smoothness(split times and accuracy) was the more I trained, the better I got. Speed comes with time. Fundamentals and basics over hardware. I personally don't see how bad the oem glock trigger is.
My Gen 4 and Gen 3 are within .25 lbs of each other at 5.5 to 5.75 lbs. The Gen 3 has more of a "snap" when it breaks, the Gen 4 has more of a "thunk". I have done nothing to either of these guns other than polishing the internals per Grants instructions on this forum.
The inconsistency is due to flexing of all of the polymer parts interacting.
If it's mushy when you buy it it will always be so. If it's "sharp and crisp" don't mess with it.
Same is true for the mag release.
When I buy a GLOCK I ask the salesman to go get four more from storage. I check them for trigger and mag release crispness. I choose the one that suits me.
I no longer mess around with aftermarket parts (except for the APEX FRE, LAV mag & slide release levers and maybe a solid stainless steel guide rod).
The guns work as advertised.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
The inconsistency is due to flexing of all of the polymer parts interacting.
If it's mushy when you buy it it will always be so. If it's "sharp and crisp" don't mess with it.
Same is true for the mag release.
When I buy a GLOCK I ask the salesman to go get four more from storage. I check them for trigger and mag release crispness. I choose the one that suits me.
I no longer mess around with aftermarket parts (except for the APEX FRE, LAV mag & slide release levers and maybe a solid stainless steel guide rod).
The guns work as advertised.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
You explained what I've felt but hadn't put together, thanks.
I like gen4 texture but I haven't felt one yet with as good a trigger as my old gen 3 g19's. And I don't really like the trigger on my g19's. But they are light, broken in, and I shoot them well so can't argue with success.
I never cared for the spongy mag release, either. A glock extended release has helped, but my mag changes with the glock have never been that fast. I really prefer pistols that launch the mag out upon pressing the release.
I've been trying to find a gun that rectifies my issues with my Glocks for 10 years.
Is anyone else thinking that this seems like a kit Geissele could make and sell an absolute s-load of? A Geissele glock trigger kit?
Doesn't Frank Proctor sell a kit? Anyone tried it?
Doesn't Frank Proctor sell a kit? Anyone tried it?
Yes, he does and it's a quality, relatively low cost solution. My training partner has one and I have shot it a bit. He has shot it a lot and is very pleased.
I've used two different solutions on my personal guns:
1) Ghost Edge connector + OC Custom adjustable, drop-in. Less than $90 for the combo and I like it.
2) ZEV adjustable fulcrum trigger. Expensive, adjustable for pre-travel and not, in my experience, scary light. Mine is very predictable and I don't hesitate to carry it concealed. Again, it's costly, but I don't worry too much about that when I'm getting a defensive gun dialed in.
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Personally I always hated the 3.5connector. It makes the trigger mushy and increases the pretravel. A nice polished 4.5 connector and polished trigger bar always seemes never to me.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_edmc5iih0E
+ a 3rd Gen Glock Trigger (I prefer the smooth faced G17/22 triggers)
STOP
Do the above and see what you think. It won't change pull weight but it will clean everything up quite a bit. Take up will be smooth and the break will be cleaner.
If you are still unhappy I'd recommend the OEM Glock "-" connector since you said this will be a carry gun.
Found elsewhere on this forum is Grant's excellent Glock trigger job tutorial > https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?28-G-amp-R-Tactical
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One thing you have to keep in mind is the Glock striker is not fully cocked until you press the trigger (it is sort of like finishing off a double action press) whereas the VP9 has a fully cocked striker and is more like a single action.
If you've ever shot a Glock that has 5000+ rounds through it and you liked the trigger then proceed. If you have never shot a Glock that had a trigger you liked, stop now and don't waste your time.
All the titanium, drilled out, laser cut, anodized wanker parts will not change the fundamental nature of the Glock action.
I know its weird that a Glock feels better in my hand. I've had M&Ps and VP9s and although they are more ergonomic I feel like I have a better grip on the Glock. Also on the VP9 my thumb touches the slide release and I haven't worked out my grip to be 100% confident if I was running it defensively.
I think I'll try to polish it tomorrow and see how that goes
Is there a particular polishing compound I should use?
Flitz Polish
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or Mothers mag and aluminum polish.
I know its weird that a Glock feels better in my hand. I've had M&Ps and VP9s and although they are more ergonomic I feel like I have a better grip on the Glock.
I thought I was the only one with that opinion.
The PPQ and VP9 fit my hand too perfectly if that makes sense. It's like I can't get a tight grip because of the way they fill my hand.
Whereas with a Glock especially with the gen4 texture it fits pretty tight without having to squeeze as hard.
Feel aside, many top shooters like Rob Leatham, think a straight side grip like the Glock, USP, 1911 is easier to control recoil with than a P30/M&P/PPQ.
Doesn't Frank Proctor sell a kit? Anyone tried it? I have shot one of Franks pistols with his parts. It was nice, but not nice enough for me to changed my Gen 4 that I happen to like.
So I got everything nice and shined up. Super smooth now but the break is still super heavy. I saw that it had a dot connector which I'm sure is the stock set up. How can I lower the force it takes to break the trigger?
You have to lower the weight of the striker sprained it the break lower. If you do that you risk light strikes though. Buying a lightweight Striker will help compensate for that.
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boombotz401
06-05-16, 14:02
So I got everything nice and shined up. Super smooth now but the break is still super heavy. I saw that it had a dot connector which I'm sure is the stock set up. How can I lower the force it takes to break the trigger?
Polishing won't lower the weight it just smooths things out, if you want to drop the break weight you'll have to try a 3.5 connector
If it's a range gun you could try a lighter striker spring, but if this is something you Rely on to work when needed that's one thing you don't want to mess with.
You will get light strikes at some point from a light striker spring, even if not right away the spring has less lee way for wear
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*Striker spring
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So I got everything nice and shined up. Super smooth now but the break is still super heavy. I saw that it had a dot connector which I'm sure is the stock set up. How can I lower the force it takes to break the trigger?
OK, so this made a noticeable difference for me:
I put the Gen3 trigger in the Gen 4 and now they feel the same. The trigger bars are different. I have seen on the internet where that is one of the parts that are interchangeable between the Gen 3 and Gen 4. It seems to fit and work.
I am not a Glock armorer, and did this just to see if if it made a difference and it did. Glock apparently changed specs on the trigger bar, I don't know why, but they must have had their reasons??
kantstudien
06-06-16, 00:46
I am not a Glock armorer, and did this just to see if if it made a difference and it did. Glock apparently changed specs on the trigger bar, I don't know why, but they must have had their reasons??
It's supposed to create more space for those people who insist on changing the mag release to the other side. If you don't ever plan on doing this, then a Gen 3 trigger bar will work fine in a Gen 4 gun.
Yes, I am a crazy nut who made a new purchase today - one that just grabbed my attention in the past few days.
I rented a VP9 once lats year, and it shot really nice. Well, with the release of the newer FDE frame, I couldn't resist. Now, the color, just like the M9A3, doesn't quite come across in photos. It looks a little different in real life...
Yes, I know it isn't DA/SA (my usual prefernce). And yes, I know I said I wasn't gonna buy anything for a while. But damn if I couldn't help myself...
http://picpaste.novarata.net/pics/1cb2f0bd188c4ad0731fb88be72e9297.jpg
It came with 3 mags and factory night sights as well!
http://picpaste.novarata.net/pics/d0de94be2e743072bd18dd458e4e29c1.jpg
Congrats on the VP9... I was just cleaning mine..lol
I feel like the VP9 theoretically would be the best striker fired pistol on the market if it was slightly smaller with the same capacity.
As an update for my quest to make my trigger fit my needs, I ordered up a Gen 3 G17 flat face trigger, hopefully that will fix it up.
Congrats on the VP9... I was just cleaning mine..lol
Thanks :)
The inconsistency is due to flexing of all of the polymer parts interacting.
If it's mushy when you buy it it will always be so. If it's "sharp and crisp" don't mess with it.
Same is true for the mag release.
When I buy a GLOCK I ask the salesman to go get four more from storage. I check them for trigger and mag release crispness. I choose the one that suits me.
I no longer mess around with aftermarket parts (except for the APEX FRE, LAV mag & slide release levers and maybe a solid stainless steel guide rod).
The guns work as advertised.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Good advice it never registered to look at multiple guns at once
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I feel like the VP9 theoretically would be the best striker fired pistol on the market if it was slightly smaller with the same capacity.
As an update for my quest to make my trigger fit my needs, I ordered up a Gen 3 G17 flat face trigger, hopefully that will fix it up.
They could make the grip shorter to accept P2000/USP 9C and have a great gun.
Is there a particular polishing compound I should use?
I tried the lucas brand, it feels slick after use.
Grayguns uses it for the sigs they polish
Flitz Polish
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LibertyNeverDies
06-07-16, 11:32
I just installed a Ghost Rocket connector in my Glock 19 Gen 3. Everything else trigger related is stock. Lots of dry firing but no polishing. It is a fitted connector with an over travel block you file down. I filed down using the Spalding cut. It's a great trigger with an extremely short reset. It will give you a better trigger than the VP9. Took me 30 minutes to an hour to fit the connector.
Connector $35
File kit $8 at home depot
Punch and backplate cover kit($10). The orange Ghost backplate cover will make things much easier and is a must.
That said it's supper light and easy to shoot but with proper trigger control I can shoot the stock trigger just as well within 50 yards. I haven't tested it past that. I was nailing a 12X12 plate at 90 and 100 yards with the Rocket connector. I've never shot that far with the stock trigger.
I'm going back to my stock connector till I get my fundamentals down more. The rocket makes things a little to easy for me and I'm afraid I'll use it as a crutch.
I'll eventually buy another glock and set it up with a Rocket connector and Overwatch precision trigger. This will get me as close to a 1911 as I think I can get and still be drop safe.
turnburglar
06-08-16, 17:39
I recently bought a 3# connector and a few springs to make my gen3 19 'better'. Hundreds of dry fires and 200 rnds at the range and my conclusion is: the gun feels best stock. If you like the vp9 trigger.... Gotta buy a vp9
I recently bought a 3# connector and a few springs to make my gen3 19 'better'. Hundreds of dry fires and 200 rnds at the range and my conclusion is: the gun feels best stock. If you like the vp9 trigger.... Gotta buy a vp9
Well I have a VP9, I just prefer the Glock platform
Well I have a VP9, I just prefer the Glock platform
Me too. Why is it so hard to believe that someone who has owned a VP9 still prefers Glocks? The only thing that I don't like about the VP9 is the size/capacity ratio.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160609/7ce85d103a2c858438131c088ca9a9a5.jpg
EzGoingKev
06-08-16, 20:37
Both pistols have the positives and negatives. In the VP9's positive column the trigger is probably #1.
One thing I do believe that makes the VP9's trigger superior to the Glock's is the solid trigger stop located right at the trigger.
Me too. Why is it so hard to believe that someone who has owned a VP9 still prefers Glocks? The only thing that I don't like about the VP9 is the size/capacity ratio.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160609/7ce85d103a2c858438131c088ca9a9a5.jpg
Agreed. It's not to big, but since I know the same can be bundled into a smaller package like the G19 I feel like they oversized it.
I'd probably sell the VP9 if it weren't for how invested I am into it between mags and holsters. At the end of the day it's a great pistol overall anyway.
I think what I need to do is just buy a high end 1911 and call it a day.
The only problem with that is I don't know where I'll live when my wife kicks me out.
I spent Monday working my wife's VP9 vs. my G19. I honestly could not shoot the VP9 better than the 19 in any shape or form. It was not enough of an improvement for me to even consider losing two rounds to my G17, or have the larger size vs. the G19. Is the VP9 trigger way better in slow fire? You bet. In rapid fire work I didn't really notice at that point.
This thread is relevant to my interests.
My go-to has been a G26 or G19 for a decade. I got a VP9 last year and loved it, shot it better than the Glocks, carried it regularly...but as it gets warmer and warmer out, and I travel, concealing a FULL size pistol all the time gets to be annoying, so I'm back "down" to the smaller, yet same capacity, G19. But I love that VP9 trigger, and the sucker just shoots so straight.
But then the Glocks have SO much more support and so damn many more options. Concealment holsters, light compatible holsters, retention holsters, night sights, magazines, you can detail strip them easily (!), no back of your mind excess concerns about water bringing debris in, that low bore axis, did I mention the magazine prices and availability and you can detail strip them easily yourself?
But more evaluation is required because I wonder if, like AKDoug, the difference in how well I shoot them diminishes as I speed up. Slow fire, accuracy, putting all five rounds touching at 7 yards on a 2" circle, VP9 every time is what I reach for...but when I was able to do a little bit of shot timer work at the indoor range by myself, maybe that awesomely low Glock bore axis makes up for the trigger and the blocky grip and shoots just as well at speed.
I'm rambling now...but a dead nuts reliable Glock trigger that feels like a VP9/PPQ would be tits. That partially pre-cocked vs fully cocked thing though...
So as an update of how I got the trigger I wanted out of this thing, I got a Gen 3 G17 trigger bar and polished the shit out of everything.
At first I used regular slip 200 EWL on the friction parts and it felt great but was a bit off.
I ended up cleaning that off the trigger bar and connector and putting some Geissle trigger grease I got with a SSAE I got a few months back and now this thing is smooth and crisp. It is much lighter to break the trigger now. I almost feel like there may have been something defective with the other one that made the trigger so shitty.
At this point it feels just as nice as the VP9, or at least it's much closer to what I like about the HKs trigger
The Gen3 trigger plus some polishing of the contact points works wonders.
lawusmc0844
06-12-16, 19:05
Funny I actually prefer the stock triggers of my G19s over the one VP-9 I shot. Heavy, and gritty and I was told it was a low round count rental VP-9. It could have been a fluke but I wasn't too impressed with it.
Funny I actually prefer the stock triggers of my G19s over the one VP-9 I shot. Heavy, and gritty and I was told it was a low round count rental VP-9. It could have been a fluke but I wasn't too impressed with it.
That is definitely a fluke.
I recently went from shooting my VP9 back to my gold standard Glock 26 and I almost pulled up short and didn't fire the first shot because I thought something must have broken, the trigger felt like melted plastic mush and for an instant I was sure it was completely ****ed. Nope, that's just what hte Glock trigger feels like when you are accustomed to the VP9 lol
EzGoingKev
06-12-16, 19:28
One thing I find with my VP9 trigger is that after a while it feels like shit. Clean/lube it and it is back to feeling great again.
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