View Full Version : Which one, SIG P226 Legion versus Wilretta 92G brig tac?
teutonicpolymer
06-05-16, 09:31
I've been looking at both of these and am seriously wondering which one would be the better choice. Both are similarly priced, both seem like they would be great, but I just cannot find a WC 92G in my area to examine.
This would be for home defense, range outings, USPSA/IPSC/IDPA, shooting groups at 25 and 50 yards- I would really prefer something that can group 1.5" at 25 yards and I don't think that is unreasonable given how $500 CZ's can do that
Maybe I can list some of my perceptions here and they can be debunked or reaffirmed:
SIG:
-trigger is amazing (this is factual, I have tried it and the hype is not just hype)
-has front serrations which I like
-unsure of current quality/QC
-have heard issues with the finish on some legion guns but it may have been a batch issue
-SIG warranty is better
-The legion is slightly cheaper by about $100 and you do get that soft case when you register which I guess is nice
-have heard that spare parts are tough to find although I'm not sure which ones I would want to keep on hand (haven't looked into it) nor need but my experience is mostly with older German SIGs
-I like the Trijicon HD style sights but the sizes of the sights are pretty small though and they sit a bit low. With the price difference I could easily get a set of Dawson's and still come out ahead versus the Beretta
-unsure of accuracy
-seems some reviewers have had FTE problems but who knows if that is the norm or just rare cases
Beretta:
-looks better
-looks cool period
-slide release might be in a better place for me; I ride Sig slide releases accidentally but that may not be an issue with the low profile legion/p224 ones
-possibly better quality
-accuracy is something I'm unsure of because of the various reviews I've seen
-trigger will be worse than the SIG. I wouldn't want to get the action job version which is $100 more because it increases the cost gap further and I'm still pretty confident that the SIG would have a better trigger
-warranty is worse than the SIG
-parts are pretty easy to find
-not sure I'd like the sights but there isn't a way for me to really tell since there aren't dealers stocking these around me; I have a feeling I might not and new sights would increase the cost gap
-better sight radius
On the one hand, having so many great options available today is nice. On the other, it makes decisions like this very difficult- both of these guns are arguably the zenith of their respective platforms.
MountainRaven
06-05-16, 10:32
So long as concealed carry isn't on the menu, I'd take the Beretta.
I found the slide lock on the SiG to be too small to use as a slide release and didn't feel confident in my ability to use the slide lock manually. Further, the SiG slide lock is located much further back than on virtually every other gun, so if you use your support hand to disengage the slide lock, you might have difficulty locating it.
But the good news is that the slide lock is much more difficult to ride with your thumb because of how small it is.
SomeOtherGuy
06-05-16, 11:17
Why these two? How much handgun experience do you have? I own examples of both platforms (and others) and I prefer my CZ-75 99% of the time and twice on Sundays. Not saying they are bad, just that the choice between those two for your uses isn't obvious to me.
teutonicpolymer
06-05-16, 11:34
Why these two? How much handgun experience do you have? I own examples of both platforms (and others) and I prefer my CZ-75 99% of the time and twice on Sundays. Not saying they are bad, just that the choice between those two for your uses isn't obvious to me.
These two because right now I want a DA/SA and I don't want a CZ because I would like something with nicer fit and finish. If the CZ Shadow II were coming this year for certain then I would wait but it seems like it won't be here for at least 1-2 years.
The legion trigger just blows any other sig trigger I've tried out of the water and it felt like they fixed the ergonomics issues I have with older Sig models.
I like SIGs but of these two, I'd take the Wilson 92 everyday and twice on Sundays.
El Pistolero
06-05-16, 12:22
I'm a SIG guy through and through, but if I took bias out of the picture I would still opt for the SIG Legion because I don't think any Beretta trigger can touch a SIG Legion trigger, they are phenomenal for an out-of-the-box DA/SA trigger, and their X-ray sights are very similar to Trijicon HDs, enough so that I would be happy keeping them on the gun.
teutonicpolymer
06-05-16, 12:35
I'm a SIG guy through and through, but if I took bias out of the picture I would still opt for the SIG Legion because I don't think any Beretta trigger can touch a SIG Legion trigger, they are phenomenal for an out-of-the-box DA/SA trigger, and their X-ray sights are very similar to Trijicon HDs, enough so that I would be happy keeping them on the gun.
See I like the sights for the same reason I just hate how the widths are sized, the front completely fills the rear which I dislike
Coal Dragger
06-05-16, 12:47
I've handled both in the same day, and it would be tough deciding between the two. On triggers, both have excellent triggers in both DA and SA, maybe a slight edge to the SA reset on the Legion but the pull weight seemed a smidge lower on the Brig Tac.
Fit and finish on both is top notch. Subjectively I like the color of the VZ grips on the Brig Tac better. The grip texture on the frame seemed more aggressive on the Brig Tac, but the Legion was still a big improvement over a stock P226. I suspect the Legion DLC coating will be more durable than the Brig Tac's Bruniton finish.
I liked the sights on the Brig Tac a bit more than the SIG X-Ray sights. The green ring was not very bright indoors on the SIG front sight, and although it may brighten considerably out doors, the white ring on the Brig Tac front sight was more visible to me. The rear sight on the Brig Tac was also nice and uncluttered, although the blacked out SIG X-Ray rear is totally functional and the tritium is nice for low light, and no longer distracting in daylight due to no white rings back there.
I like the slide release lever on the Legion, I need to order one to install on my X5 since I ride the huge slide release lever on mine.
I'd be happy with either pistol and want both of them badly. I got side tracked yesterday trying to decide when I handled an HK USP Expert in 9mm, aside from the absurd cost of HK magazines for use with the jet funnel, and the need for a rail adapter, the Expert probably fits my needs better. The trigger is very good in SA and not bad in DA (not as good as the other two), the adjustable sights are excellent, controls are large and located where I won't have issues with them. Plus it has a hand fit match barrel. I figure if I'm going to get a full size 9mm for classes, competition, and home defense I might as well get a big one. Damn decisions.
I'd go with the Sig. A Beretta is a great gun too but I shoot Sigs better. They both have great customer service. Sigs have a DA pull that doesn't stack and I like that. The Sig can have a much better trigger with a heavier mainspring.
As far as Sig QC issues? I have several Sig 226s made from 2013-2016 and one from '04 and they've all been perfect right out of the box. One MK 25 has over 8K through it with zero stoppages. My 9mm 239s are just as reliable. Pistol for pistol, my Sigs have outperformed my Glocks.
I'd go with the Sig. A Beretta is a great gun too but I shoot Sigs better. They both have great customer service. Sigs have a DA pull that doesn't stack and I like that. The Sig can have a much better trigger with a heavier mainspring.
As far as Sig QC issues? I have several Sig 226s made from 2013-2016 and one from '04 and they've all been perfect right out of the box. One MK 25 has over 8K through it with zero stoppages. My 9mm 239s are just as reliable. Pistol for pistol, my Sigs have outperformed my Glocks.
Although I too prefer the Sig's SRT, I think that it helps to qualify what we mean by "better." For me, it's the reset which is only about 2 mm of travel. Combine with a Gray guns Precision Intermediate Trigger, you get ZERO overtravel and THE SHORTEST reset in a DA/SA pistol on the market.
On the other hand, the Sig's DA trigger is nothing to write home about. At 10 lbs, it is a full 2lbs heavier than a Wilson BrigTac. The SA pulls are also very similar with a little less overtravel on the Sig (a lot less with a Gray Guns PIT).
Bottom line, the Sig gives up a little to the BrigTac on the initial DA pull, but follow-up shots with the Sig are MUCH faster.
FWIW, I give a slight edge to the Sig in terms of grip and compactness for concealed carry. The BrigTac wins the battle of placement of slide release.
teutonicpolymer
06-05-16, 15:48
I'm slightly leaning towards the SIG right now due to the $100 saved which can go towards sights and the trigger which is just that good
Although I too prefer the Sig's SRT, I think that it helps to qualify what we mean by "better." For me, it's the reset which is only about 2 mm of travel. Combine with a Gray guns Precision Intermediate Trigger, you get ZERO overtravel and THE SHORTEST reset in a DA/SA pistol on the market.
On the other hand, the Sig's DA trigger is nothing to write home about. At 10 lbs, it is a full 2lbs heavier than a Wilson BrigTac. The SA pulls are also very similar with a little less overtravel on the Sig (a lot less with a Gray Guns PIT).
Bottom line, the Sig gives up a little to the BrigTac on the initial DA pull, but follow-up shots with the Sig are MUCH faster.
FWIW, I give a slight edge to the Sig in terms of grip and compactness for concealed carry. The BrigTac wins the battle of placement of slide release.
Although I haven't measured it or seen it measured, the DA pull is shorter on the SIG even though it probably is heavier
multistage
06-05-16, 17:49
Boy, I guess I'd have to go with the SIG.
A P229 Legion cries out to me.
I'm slightly leaning towards the SIG right now due to the $100 saved which can go towards sights and the trigger which is just that good
Although I haven't measured it or seen it measured, the DA pull is shorter on the SIG even though it probably is heavier
The overall distance from the start of the pull to break is similar, but the BrigTac has more overtravel and starts a bit more forward (for lack of a better term). It is hard for me to compare since all of my Sigs have a Gray Guns PIT, which elimates the overtravel. Again, people can argue weight vs. distance vs. overtravel between the two, but there is no arguing the reset - the Sig is much, much better.
This would be for ... USPSA/IPSC/IDPA
If you looked at relatively recent competition performance record, there is no comparison, BrigTac (Elite II clone) wins.
Although I too prefer the Sig's SRT, I think that it helps to qualify what we mean by "better." For me, it's the reset which is only about 2 mm of travel. Combine with a Gray guns Precision Intermediate Trigger, you get ZERO overtravel and THE SHORTEST reset in a DA/SA pistol on the market.
On the other hand, the Sig's DA trigger is nothing to write home about. At 10 lbs, it is a full 2lbs heavier than a Wilson BrigTac. The SA pulls are also very similar with a little less overtravel on the Sig (a lot less with a Gray Guns PIT).
Bottom line, the Sig gives up a little to the BrigTac on the initial DA pull, but follow-up shots with the Sig are MUCH faster.
FWIW, I give a slight edge to the Sig in terms of grip and compactness for concealed carry. The BrigTac wins the battle of placement of slide release.
You have to consider that the Brig Tac is using a 14 or a 16lb mainspring while the Sig has a 24. I don't care how many flawless rounds are reported on the internet, a heavier mainspring is more reliable from an ignition and feeding standpoint. My newer Sigs with the E2 type mainspring setup are very noticeably smoother, shorter, and no stacking when compared to a Beretta. The Berettas SA does have more over-travel.
The Beretta is easier to shoot faster because of the slightly lower bore axis, but for real world use, I shoot the Sig so much better that the decision is made for me.
teutonicpolymer
06-05-16, 22:45
I'm a little concerned about QC reports regarding the Legion. Have read about FTE's, seems finish issues are sort of wide spread, and even weird quirks like some guns lacking front serrations which is just crazy to me.
You have to consider that the Brig Tac is using a 14 or a 16lb mainspring while the Sig has a 24. I don't care how many flawless rounds are reported on the internet, a heavier mainspring is more reliable from an ignition and feeding standpoint. My newer Sigs with the E2 type mainspring setup are very noticeably smoother, shorter, and no stacking when compared to a Beretta. The Berettas SA does have more over-travel.
The Beretta is easier to shoot faster because of the slightly lower bore axis, but for real world use, I shoot the Sig so much better that the decision is made for me.
The Beretta may be faster for you, but my splits with a P226 equipped with a SRT and PIT are faster than any other DA/SA or striker fired pistol that I own. They are even on par with what I get out of a Wilson Tac Elite. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm a little concerned about QC reports regarding the Legion. Have read about FTE's, seems finish issues are sort of wide spread, and even weird quirks like some guns lacking front serrations which is just crazy to me.
I'm aware of 2 issues with the initial run: "spotty" finish and crooked front sites. I'm not aware of any widespread reliability issue, but it would not surprise me. Sig's initial releases tends to come off looking like a 14 year old boy struggling with a bra strap.
TheChunkNorris
06-06-16, 06:16
Out of the two I'd take the Beretta, it's a really nice pistol. I know you said you didn't want a CZ but after looking at your description... how about a CZ TacSport? Flawless fit/finish, 20rd magazine capability, easy to shoot and it's super accurate. Think you can do better than the Sig personally but I agree that their triggers are nice. Hell you can get a SP01 Tactical and send it to Cajun Gun works and have it worked over...it'll be less than both models you're looking at and you'll be shooting a "better" gun overall. They're not as cool looking as the Beretta though but I'd be pissed if I bought a premium model and it have any one of the issues that are well known with Sig lately.
teutonicpolymer
06-06-16, 06:28
Out of the two I'd take the Beretta, it's a really nice pistol. I know you said you didn't want a CZ but after looking at your description... how about a CZ TacSport? Flawless fit/finish, 20rd magazine capability, easy to shoot and it's super accurate. Think you can do better than the Sig personally but I agree that their triggers are nice. Hell you can get a SP01 Tactical and send it to Cajun Gun works and have it worked over...it'll be less than both models you're looking at and you'll be shooting a "better" gun overall. They're not as cool looking as the Beretta though but I'd be pissed if I bought a premium model and it have any one of the issues that are well known with Sig lately.
Tacsport isn't production legal, it is big, mags are double the price of either the Sig or Beretta, it uses several polymer parts including the trigger, I disagree on the fit and finish, and the trigger is if anything too light at around 1.5 lbs.
I do think the tacsport shoots well but for the reasons above I don't want it. The tacsport orange is a bit nicer but then a good deal more expensive than any of these.
I don't really want a CZ because all of the ones I have checked out have just had crude machining and finish even though they may work great. My original plan was actually to get a P-09, 85 combat, or a 75 Omega and do the CGW parts. The shadows are also out there in small numbers but still not what I want. I mentioned before that if the CZ Shadow II were coming out soon I'd probably just go with that since it has updated features like checkering and supposedly is made with new machines, but it seems CZ wants to sell them everywhere but the US for the time being which makes no sense to me.
You have to consider that the Brig Tac is using a 14 or a 16lb mainspring while the Sig has a 24..
16 lbs mainspring is an OEM mainspring for a DAO Beretta 92 and has been validated in Elite series of 92G. As far as I know, Beretta changed hammer design between E1 and E2 just for that. Supposedly the new Wilson Combat trigger bar has been designed to add to ignition reliability with light mainsprings. I never got one because my E2 lights up everything except for russian ammo with a 13 lbs spring.
If games/competition are high on the list, the comparison is lopsided. Beretta is a Nationals-winning Production pistol; 226 is a gun that SIG could not or would not (same to me in this case) build a shooting team around. Outside of this particular area, SIG holds his own and would be my choice for other uses like CCW, except I'd go with 229.
IMO, DA/SA guns impose ergonomic requirements that other guns do not. These ergo requirements often times define how the gun would work (or not) for a specific user, more so than historical records or other people's experiences. I think that OP needs to figure that out as opposed to all other things listed here so far. This does not require a local availability of a BrigTac or a Legion; just a 92 and 226 would do.
donlapalma
06-06-16, 10:44
IMO, DA/SA guns impose ergonomic requirements that other guns do not. These ergo requirements often times define how the gun would work (or not) for a specific user, more so than historical records or other people's experiences. I think that OP needs to figure that out as opposed to all other things listed here so far. This does not require a local availability of a BrigTac or a Legion; just a 92 and 226 would do.
I second this. OP, I went through this same thought process earlier this year and wound up getting the P229 Legion. It's evident that you have thought this through and have identified all the finer points of consideration. For me, I went out and shot the 92 and 229 to see how each gun fit me ergonomically. Plus, I wanted to carry the gun AIWB so that played into my decision as well. You have narrowed it down to two great choices and think you'll be pleased either way.
TheChunkNorris
06-06-16, 11:59
Tacsport isn't production legal, it is big, mags are double the price of either the Sig or Beretta, it uses several polymer parts including the trigger, I disagree on the fit and finish, and the trigger is if anything too light at around 1.5 lbs.
I do think the tacsport shoots well but for the reasons above I don't want it. The tacsport orange is a bit nicer but then a good deal more expensive than any of these.
I don't really want a CZ because all of the ones I have checked out have just had crude machining and finish even though they may work great. My original plan was actually to get a P-09, 85 combat, or a 75 Omega and do the CGW parts. The shadows are also out there in small numbers but still not what I want. I mentioned before that if the CZ Shadow II were coming out soon I'd probably just go with that since it has updated features like checkering and supposedly is made with new machines, but it seems CZ wants to sell them everywhere but the US for the time being which makes no sense to me.
I actually learned something, I thought the TacSport had an aluminum trigger assembly. Anyway... Beretta it is then.
I'd go with the Sig SAO version. A buddy of mine has one and it's pretty ridiculous.
I have not shot the Legion nor brigadier, but based on recoil characteristics of the 226 vs m92 I shot, I'd definately go with beretta, but I think it's a personal preference. Berettas feel like I'm cheating.
If you go sao, I'd look hard at a cz sp01 with sao and comp hammer, both of which are easy to install yourself. I see you don't like cz due to machining marks? I think your reservations would be gone once you start putting lead downrange, but I've been wrong before.
The sig Legion sao is nice looking fwiw.
I've got two guns very similar to what you are considering... an M9A1 worked over by Wilson and the Legion 229. They cost about the same (roughly $1,200) when you take into consideration the Wilson trigger work, sights, etc, on the Beretta.
In my opinion the trigger on the Wilson worked Beretta is superior. Then again, that is comparing a stock Sig trigger to a Wilson gunsmithed trigger on the Beretta. Apples and oranges. It is considerably lighter at just over 6lb DAO, whereas the Legion is near 10lb. The Beretta is smoother and doesn't have over travel in single action. However, the Sig has an extremely short reset... very short. This is where Sig wins, but there is a touch of over travel. My understanding is the SRT style triggers were designed with more sear engagement, gaining the benefit of short reset at the expense of slightly less crisp trigger. That's my understanding - I'm not certain it is true/valid.
Both are great guns... the Sig feels most natural in my small hands than any other handgun I've owned. The jury is still out on which I shoot better, but for a carry gun I'd go Sig 229 due to size alone.
Here are the two:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/GingerKidPhotos/Guns_and_Gear/280B79C5-BC10-4DD0-AD07-A49731BCDCEB_zpstecr2omq.jpg (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/GingerKidPhotos/media/Guns_and_Gear/280B79C5-BC10-4DD0-AD07-A49731BCDCEB_zpstecr2omq.jpg.html)
teutonicpolymer
06-07-16, 08:57
Did some more searching and apparently the adjustable trigger in the legion isn't really all that adjustable but if it works its way out it completely stops the gun from working. Seems like they should've just gone with a non adjustable version which I believe GGI has. That plus the finish issues, extractor issues, etc is just... disappointing.
Did some more searching and apparently the adjustable trigger in the legion isn't really all that adjustable but if it works its way out it completely stops the gun from working. Seems like they should've just gone with a non adjustable version which I believe GGI has. That plus the finish issues, extractor issues, etc is just... disappointing.
That has been my observation on S/F - finish issues are common, and like most of what SIG does these days, it's only to around 90%.
Stick by my recommendation of the Wilson 92G.
I must be one of the few wackos who just cannot stand controls on a pistol's slide.
A safety/decocker on the slide is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me.... so Sig > Pizza Blaster .
In their stock FS version they are in fact pretty horrible. Slim G decock-only levers are a whole new deal, actually less obtrusive and more functional that SIG's decocker.
More "functional" in what way?
First, what I like is that I can, and I do, decock with my support hand without breaking my strong hand grip at all, as opposed to compromising my strong hand grip a bit with SIG. Second, if I decided to decock with a hand holding the gun which I do with SHO and WHO shooting, Beretta's are ambidextrous. Tried to decock a SIG while shooting left-handed? Maybe functional is not exactly the right term, but Beretta's allow the function of decocking in a way that SIG doesn't. Just to be certain, this only applies to G-models, I hate FS design, and all my decockers have been machined into a low profile.
teutonicpolymer
06-08-16, 10:37
I don't know what's wrong with me because as soon as I discounted the Legion I started looking at HK Experts hahaha
Coal Dragger
06-08-16, 10:56
I was on the fence between a Legion P226 and a Brig Tac, and then played with a USP Expert. Since they're all too large to make good CCW pistols, might as well consider some other slicked up full size pistols.
If you can find an Expert in stock you may be pleasantly surprised. The only thing I didn't care for was the lack of an ambidextrous slide release. Which is a very minor gripe. Otherwise as a range gun, or something to take to classes that is easy to shoot and reliable I think it would be a nice pistol. The trigger is a revelation, it's really quite good. Making you all the more disgusted with HK on their other pistols aside from the VP9, because clearly they know how to provide an excellent trigger. They just choose not to.
teutonicpolymer
06-08-16, 11:16
I was on the fence between a Legion P226 and a Brig Tac, and then played with a USP Expert. Since they're all too large to make good CCW pistols, might as well consider some other slicked up full size pistols.
If you can find an Expert in stock you may be pleasantly surprised. The only thing I didn't care for was the lack of an ambidextrous slide release. Which is a very minor gripe. Otherwise as a range gun, or something to take to classes that is easy to shoot and reliable I think it would be a nice pistol. The trigger is a revelation, it's really quite good. Making you all the more disgusted with HK on their other pistols aside from the VP9, because clearly they know how to provide an excellent trigger. They just choose not to.
I feel like you get more from the WC 92G than the Expert. Looked through what I would need to get the Expert ready to go and it easily exceeds the Beretta price. With the 92G it seems basically ready to go, maybe change out the sights at most but they look workable. With the expert the front sight needs to be changed, the safety setup would have to go for a V3 setup, and the hammer would need to be changed to a bobbed one for USPSA production size limitations and this would add over $150 bringing the cost above $1350. The mags also are slightly more expensive than Mec-Gars for the 92. Then there is the issue of the USP just having weird ergonomics (I have big hands but it isn't really comfortable), paddle mag release which is not my preference, and the dual spring recoil system which sounds to be difficult to tune. All this could be forgiven if the price wasn't so high- without any of the necessary add ons it is as much as the brig tac.
Also looked at the MK25 a bit but the aftermarket looks weak and buy in price is high for what it would need. Price would surpass the legion while having less features (but it might still be the better gun).
Coal Dragger
06-08-16, 11:52
I think I understand where you're coming from. Would you have to change to a V3 for the purposes of competing in a certain class? The V1 does allow decocking but not sure if governing body rules allow for it. Another option would be to convert it to a match/LEM hybrid, this is evidently pretty popular and includes a bobbed hammer for fitting in the box dimensions. You get the same trigger pull every time with the hybrid trigger. I'm attracted to the V1 because it allows cocked and locked carry.
Mags are more expensive, but in typical HK fashion they will probably be super reliable and durable. Still unless you catch them on sale the duty rated polymer coated steel Expert 18 round mags are almost $90 per magazine. Right now HK has them on sale for $62.30.
The sights for me are a big bonus, I like adjustable sights though.
If you've never owned a USP series gun, I van relate to you from experience that the dual recoil spring system is unlikely to need tuning. The USP 45 that I owned would cycle nearly anything, and it was still a very soft shooting pistol. I wish my 1911 were as magnanimous at feeding various loads using only the stock 16lb recoil spring.
I can't comment on ergonomics issues, that is highly personal. For me while I love the feel of a hand fitting grip I don't necessarily shoot a pistol any better that has one. When I shot bullseye grip fit was extremely important for one handed shooting, but I am discovering that when I want two hands on the pistol for some reason I do better with more blocky grip shapes, particularly in rapid fire. I have no logical explanation for this, but it's just what I've found to be true for me at this time. For example shooting a VP9 and G19 back to back I discovered I had a better two handed grip on the Glock than the VP9. I shot both pretty well (enough to impress the range safety officer who offered up the Glock after I shot my brother's VP9), but even though I hated the way the grip felt my results with the Glock were just as good accuracy wise and I didn't notice my support hand shifting as much. I wonder if putting the large grip inserts on the VP9 would have evened things out? I never considered my hands to be large, but maybe they are. I wear an XL work glove, so maybe I just need bigger grips.
Sorry to prattle on. If I could buy 2 it would be Expert and Brig Tac. Both are more pistol for the money in my estimation than the SIG.
teutonicpolymer
06-08-16, 12:06
V3 would be to not accidentally activate the safety because it is too high to ride and I'd never use it
Coal Dragger
06-08-16, 12:14
I rode the top of my safety all the time with the USP 45, your results of course may vary. Fortunately for me HK cleverly made the safety/decocker resistant to decocking unless the lever was fully depressed. Same for my HK45, that might find itself being traded for a USP Expert or Brig Tac...
I have the WC Brigadier Tactical (one of the first 150) with the action tune/trigger job. It has fit and finish superior to any Sig (save a 210) that I have ever felt. It is also extremely soft recoiling, accurate and reliable. I think one of the big advantages is magazine availability and cost. I am running MecGar 20s and 18s. They ran me between 20 and 25 bucks per. I also have a box full of GI mags (not the crappy ones). They can be had all day long for next to nothing. As we go into uncertain times regarding legislation, I think Beretta mags are always going to be more available and cheaper than Sig mags.
D
teutonicpolymer
06-09-16, 00:12
I might look around at expert prices and part prices some more, it is something that I have had my eye on for several years now...
TheChunkNorris
06-09-16, 06:23
I might look around at expert prices and part prices some more, it is something that I have had my eye on for several years now...
They've gone down since I bought mine, think you'll really like it. Added the LEM and one of my favorite USP models.
Also looked at the MK25 a bit but the aftermarket looks weak and buy in price is high for what it would need. Price would surpass the legion while having less features (but it might still be the better gun).
What does a MK25 need? I have a little over 8K through one of mine and it's had nothing done to it except a trigger bar spring and recoil spring replaced as preventive maintenance.
The 1913 rail is a big plus and I think the G-10 grips are an iffy proposition on a frame with aluminum threads. As far as the SRT? I think it's totally unnecessary if you're slapping the trigger like you should be. Sig's SA is too light to ride the reset. A MK25 trigger may feel a little rougher in the beginning if it has the phosphated parts, but they've been using some DLC type coating for awhile now and it gives a smooth feel.
Coal Dragger
06-11-16, 01:06
Sigh. Still can't decide myself which direction I'd like to go on a full size 9mm. One day I want a USP Expert in 9mm, today I lean towards the Wilson 92g Brig Tac.
ramairthree
06-11-16, 18:51
Which series do you have more time and experience on?
I have other Berettas and mags, etc. to Brig Tac is an easy choice for me.
If you had a lot of SIG time under your belt and already had the base model, I would go with that.
ColtSeavers
06-11-16, 21:27
Wilretta 92G Brig-Tac based on my experiences with m9s, my 92a1, and p226s. I cannot stand the decocker on Sigs. Not ambidextrous and requires complete shift of grip to use. Would like to try a DAK though.
Wilretta 92G Brig-Tac based on my experiences with m9s, my 92a1, and p226s. I cannot stand the decocker on Sigs. Not ambidextrous and requires complete shift of grip to use. Would like to try a DAK though.
I have a lot of time on Beretta and Sigs and I like them both. The P226 and M9 have been the best shooting, most reliable pistols I've owned. I find that in practice, I like the controls on the Beretta too, and I like the way it handles at speed better. I would use one for a game gun in a heartbeat. In actual and induced stress, for some reason I do better with the Sig. Especially in low/no light where visuals are degraded and I have the extra task of using a mounted light.
I say go with the Wilson/Beretta. I love mine and mainly use it for USPSA and 3 gun. Love the sights, trigger is great and I can't seem to miss with it especially when I'm running it fast. I'm trying to figure out how to afford another one for a back up :)
I just picked up a Legion P229 in 9mm yesterday. I disassembled it at the store and found no fit or finish issues, and I paid special attention to the front sight.
I took it to the range with my new CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1. I put 100 rounds of Federal 124 grain AE without malfunction.
I'll compare it to my Wilson BrigTac on a Dot Torture this weekend and report back.
I found myself at the Sig counter last week at a LGS and ended up walking out with a MK 25 and reloading supplies.
Liked the Xray sights on the 226 Legion. Everything else was sort of "Meh" to me. Did not care for the "beavertail" or the 224 controls.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F3ESTUsGnQM/V2NTdm_4hBI/AAAAAAAADGk/Ucp2-rXLckYriuCXYWx1ZbkKMfNtPzNrgCCo/s912/DSC_0195.JPG
gtmtnbiker98
06-21-16, 09:53
I picked up a P226 Legion yesterday and shot the first 100 rounds of AE 124gr and 16 Winchester Ranger T +P 124 gr. The gun ran great, but the DA isn't as smooth as many have reported. Hopefully the trigger will wear in.
The undercut and G10 grips makes the P226 Legion feel a lot smaller in overall grip when compared to my MK25. Overall, I am happy with the purchase.
The gun ran great, but the DA isn't as smooth as many have reported. Hopefully the trigger will wear in.
Wanted DA/SA. Looked again at Beretta. Looked back to SIG (had a WG 226 and liked it but...). Then I heard of the great DA on the SP 2022. WOW. 'They' were spot on. Every 2022 I pick up has the same wonderful DA trigger. Barrel lockup is bank vault tight. Right stippling, trigger, sights, controls, fit/finish, accuracy, and reliability OTB.
The M9A3 is a very good looking gun, and all the right features for a Beretta. Legion is VERY cool. But, I have what I need. The 2022 is the Glock of DA/SA.
I don't have a full done up M9, but I sent mine to Wilson and they got it to be one sweet weapon. That being said, my Legion impressed me beyond reason. ( it did take a crap on me the other day after a jacked with the trigger but that's on me)
I'll say what's been said. The trigger is amazing and something about the ergos, because my first shot DA shots are bulls eyes very often. I've always been concerned about the first shot on a DA carry weapon. But I am spot on with mine. My favorite carry weapon is my LEM TRIGGER P30. However the Sig version has a safety and I didn't care for it.
I personally really like the sights. But sights are a preference thing. And I think to carry , you have to give the nod to the Sig. I love my M9 with G conversion, grips, guide rod......, but the Sig might be more ideal for your everyday needs.
I still don't get why G, checkering, and Vertec aren't codified features of the M9 as delivered at least to the shooting public - of course, it makes perfect sense to military and LE as well. G simplifies use and Vertec makes it better to a broader range of hand sizes. Beretta triggers are decent OTB - so a little polishing makes it very nice, and the D spring again should come standard. Hopefully sales go up and they don't charge $900+ for these guns. They are attractive.
(Then, offer a mid-size...).
Shot a Dot Torture yesterday at 4 yards with my Wilson BrigTac and new P229 Legion. Ammo was 124 grain AE. Score was 47 for the Wilson and 49 for the Legion.
I usually shot 48-49 with a G17. Sometimes I'm clean 50 with my Wilson CQB Elite.
teutonicpolymer
06-25-16, 22:06
Just as I'm ready to stop considering a Beretta, I discover that the EL 92 is going to being coming up and it changes everything I dislike about the Wilson version...
Coal Dragger
06-26-16, 07:30
Managed to look at a Legion and Brig Tac again on the same day at the same time. Still having a tough time deciding. Leaning towards the Brig Tac ever so slightly for the better DA trigger and still very good SA trigger. Also due to the slide release location I'm less likely to over ride it with my thumb. The Brig Tac that my dealer has in stock is fully optioned with the Wilson trigger job and mag funnel do-hickey at the bottom rear of the frame. That trigger is ridonculously awesome, giving up only the reset length to the Legion. Sights on both are kind of "meh" to me, after shooting some Trijicon HD's I'd rather have those over the Wilson sights or SIG Xray sights.
Ill add my $.02. I'll explain my preferences and circumstances, as I just had someone PM me my personal reason for getting rid of my Sig 229 legion. It's completely personal, as both are incredible platforms.
I bought the wilson combat 92 brig tac first, then added the sig to compare to the beretta. I keep getting drawn back to the brig tac. Its a beauty. Despite its size and weight, It is incredibly comfortable to wear all day. With a proper belt its lost and I don't even notice it. However, I'm a larger person 6'3" and 225.
I've made a few changes to it. I added the action tune and wilson trigger bar for reliable ignition. Its silky smooth. I shoot the black out of targets every time I take it out. Smooth is fast, and it's effortless on the brig tac. The only thing I can't get used to is the black wilson combat rear sight. It can get lost during rapid shooting on a black target. I really like the "U" notch but just need a three dot config. I already contacted tooltech and they will be installing tritium inserts in the rear wilson sight for me. I have the wilson compact carry in the same configuration coming in next Sunday which I'll be iwb concealed carrying that when it comes in. I will be sending the compact to tool tech when they get their front sight issue figured out. I also have the mag guide and fast, reliable mag changes are easy to replicate. Im hoping wilson eventually does an m9a3 version. We'll see....
The sig is an amazing pistol. The trigger is epic and I really liked the big in your face sights. Its a straight shooter. It has a higher bore axis that is slightly more noticeable when shooting them back to back. However, I mean it is BARELY noticeable, and you really have to shoot them back to back. The undercut trigger really helps. The adjustable trigger was something I was concerned about for reliability. I don't know what would happen if the screw would ever back itself out. I didn't want to have to worry about it, which also led to my decision to go beretta.
Another big consideration for me going to the brig tac was that I wanted a platform my wife and I could standardize. She's really small and does not have strong wrists, especially after shooting for extended range trips. She has a tendency to start limp wristing and jams up some guns. It was frustrating for her to go shooting with me, but the brig tac is bringing back her enjoyment. The brig tac is the only one she has fired without at hiccups at all. But that is my situation, not everyone will go my direction. The sig and the wilson are extraordinary firearms. I just have personal preferences and situations the brig tac fulfills better. I'm hoping the compact carry will seal the deal on the platform for me and my wife. I was hoping to do a review of both when they are fully set up, including the tooltech installed night sights.
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