View Full Version : 9th CIRCUS Court says there is no right to concealed carry
Doc Safari
06-09-16, 13:08
http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/06/09/9th-circuit/
The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit is ruling in favor of California’s “good cause” requirement, saying the Second Amendment does not protect a right to carry a concealed gun in public.
...the en banc ruling went in the opposite direction, upholding the “good cause” requirement and unequivocally stating that Americans have no right to carry a concealed gun outside the home for self-defense. Writing in the majority opinion, Judge Williams Fletcher said, “We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public.”
My take: They're going to try to get as many gun-related cases into the pipeline like this in order to make sure they are heard before a Hillary-enhanced Supreme Court when she takes office in January of 2017 so that they can begin the process of completely gutting the Second Amendment while simultaneously making Hillary look effective in her first 100 days.
Isn't this in complete opposition to the Heller decision(s)?
This is just nutty.
What is happening to this country?
I am just a youngster in this world, barely experienced enough to be a true Adult.
But does it really take a panel of people to clarify the danger we live in? Between domestic threats, daily crime rates, and conflict resolution being a joke in today's society (more so, the lackthereof) and yet this is the decision they reached?
Now let's take into account the foreign threats, the blatant distaste for American Ideology from many different types of groups/countries.
This is something that is not only disconcerting, but so off base and uncalled for, it's a joke.
I say we call for removal of some of those judges.
ETA:
Of course... This crap started in California...
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2016/06/09/10-56971%206-9%20EB%20opinion%20plus%20webcites.pdf
This country is a shit show
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Things were looking pretty good a couple years ago. We had finally won. We all applied and were ready to receive our CCWs. Then Kamela Harris got involved. She realized this one got by her and made a big fuss to have it re-heard. At first they said no, but enough strings were pulled to make it happen eventually. Of course LE could have begun issuing permits after the first ruling in 2014, but nooooOOOooooo. They had to wait for the lefties to strike it down…
Its criminal. The next disarmed person that is accosted by a violent criminal in this state needs to sue the 9th circuit, Kamela Harris, and everyone else who denied them their constitutionally protected birthright to self defense. These people should be ashamed of themselves and the innocent blood of people murdered while defenseless is on their hands now.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. There is no ambiguity there. How long until we fight back against this tyranny? I can't do it alone...
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-09-16, 14:44
Sure, go ahead and stay home in November or vote for some 3rd party loser, what is the worst that could happen.
Pretty well par for the ninth circuit appellate court.
Them folks have a history of real shit bird decisions.
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wildcard600
06-09-16, 14:54
Sure, go ahead and stay home in November or vote for some 3rd party loser, what is the worst that could happen.
We have been assured that nothing will happen... remember Obama has been the most pro-gun president since Washington ! right ?
Sure, go ahead and stay home in November or vote for some 3rd party loser, what is the worst that could happen.
I doubt his "fight back against tyranny" has anything to do with voting or peaceful protest. Im guessing it involves some sort of armed revolt fantasy......
What is happening to this country?
I am just a youngster in this world, barely experienced enough to be a true Adult.
But does it really take a panel of people to clarify the danger we live in? Between domestic threats, daily crime rates, and conflict resolution being a joke in today's society (more so, the lackthereof) and yet this is the decision they reached?
Now let's take into account the foreign threats, the blatant distaste for American Ideology from many different types of groups/countries.
This is something that is not only disconcerting, but so off base and uncalled for, it's a joke.
I say we call for removal of some of those judges.
ETA:
Of course... This crap started in California...
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2016/06/09/10-56971%206-9%20EB%20opinion%20plus%20webcites.pdf
The danger and state of the union is irrelevant; the second amendment is the second amendment, and should stand even if the US was facing nothing worse than a massive group hug every morning.
The whole shall not be infringed thing must be hard to understand. It seems clear to me, but what do I know.
Interesting theory on the first 100 days idea.
My thought is that they're going full court press because they aren't confident in winning at this point. The process to reverse laws is a very slow one.
People at all levels need to start being held accountable for this crap. This court, Hillary, and the former AG all will get a free pass. When the left riots, its a cute demonstration. My only question is when will ya'll get sick and tired of being sick and tired of this crap?
I doubt his "fight back against tyranny" has anything to do with voting or peaceful protest. Im guessing it involves some sort of armed revolt fantasy......
There are a plethora of methods to propel political "fight" that don't involve those 3 things.
Regardless, let's stay banded. This is something that impacts all gun owners. As mentioned, something needs to be done. I don't know what would be the "best" way to begin here. As someone else mentioned, if this truly becomes fruition, the first person to see damages or loss of life need to sue the hell out of those courts and the pusher of said case.
I just wish it didn't have to come to that since it's pretty common sense, we won't even begin to pull actual data of crime reduction when CCW is allowed, that law abiding citizens with firearms rarely use them to begin with.
It should be common sense, how many times do we see a newsheadline that says: "LEGAL CONCEAL CARRIER DEFENDS <INSERT HERE> WITH LEGAL FIREARM."
Because headlines like that are 1) Not as common in general. 2) Doesn't bring in the bucks like a criminal story.
Sure, go ahead and stay home in November or vote for some 3rd party loser, what is the worst that could happen.
where the hell is the "LIKE" button...
The danger and state of the union is irrelevant; the second amendment is the second amendment, and should stand even if the US was facing nothing worse than a massive group hug every morning.
Thanks Chuck, I can see how my point may have been contrary to your point.
I assure you, I agree whole heartily.
I merely supplied my opinion in response to the 9 Circuits apparent lack of understanding. Their main focus was "Defense" and so thus was mine.
Nonetheless, I do truly agree. And Thank you for providing that input, as I am sure many many agree.
Doc Safari
06-09-16, 15:17
I forgot to add:
OBVIOUSLY this will go to the Supreme Court. In the SCOTUS's 50-50 divided state, it's likely the decision will stand and become precedence (if the Supreme Court decides to hear a challenge at all).
So, bottom line is: we just lost our right/privilege/gift of concealed carry anywhere in the nation where a state doesn't grant the right legislatively.
This was just effectively sliced out of the right to keep and bear arms, and I wonder if they will try the same technique with an assault weapons ban, a mag capacity ban, a semi-auto ban, etc.
We are screwed to an unfathomable depth in my estimation.
What is happening to this country?
I am just a youngster in this world, barely experienced enough to be a true Adult.
But does it really take a panel of people to clarify the danger we live in? Between domestic threats, daily crime rates, and conflict resolution being a joke in today's society (more so, the lackthereof) and yet this is the decision they reached?
Now let's take into account the foreign threats, the blatant distaste for American Ideology from many different types of groups/countries.
This is something that is not only disconcerting, but so off base and uncalled for, it's a joke.
I say we call for removal of some of those judges.
ETA:
Of course... This crap started in California...
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2016/06/09/10-56971%206-9%20EB%20opinion%20plus%20webcites.pdf
Not sure how up you are on the 9th.
The 9th Circuit is known for it's liberal-leaning decisions. The 9th not only includes Cali but the entire West Coast, plus Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona.
In this case the first hearing, before a panel of judges from the Southern District didn't go the way Cali's AG wanted so an en banc hearing was requested - en banc means all the judges heard the case, not just a panel of selected judges. The 9th has four appellate court locations, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and LA/Pasendena, so en banc means they brought all the judges together. Obviously, this resulted in a different finding.
You can read the whole case here: https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016-6-9-peruta-richards-enbanc-opinion.pdf
Basically the appeal from teh District Court was heard by a the panel of Judges for the Southern District. That panel divided with the Majority ruling that 'show good cause' was unconstitutional. It seems to be simple logic, the majority essentially said you either have to give them concealed carry or open carry, since you are restricting both, you are violating the 2nd Amendment.
Apparently you can appeal a panel hearing, which the Sheriff of Yolo County did. He was joined in his appeal by the Cali AG, who appealed in the case out of San Diego County after that Sheriff declined to appeal.
The California Statute puts the fate of someone who wants a concealed carry permit at the whim of the Sheriff, who may or may not deem the persons request as worthy. From what I understand, some Sheriff's readily grant permits, others, apparently Yolo County (adjacent to Sacremento and Nap counies) and San Diego County stifle concealed carry.
Politics.
Not sure how up you are on the 9th.
The 9th Circuit is known for it's liberal-leaning decisions. The 9th not only includes Cali but the entire West Coast, plus Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona.
In this case the first hearing, before a panel of judges from the Southern District didn't go the way Cali's AG wanted so an en banc hearing was requested - en banc means all the judges heard the case, not just a panel of selected judges. The 9th has four appellate court locations, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and LA/Pasendena, so en banc means they brought all the judges together. Obviously, this resulted in a different finding.
You can read the whole case here: https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016-6-9-peruta-richards-enbanc-opinion.pdf
Basically the appeal from teh District Court was heard by a the panel of Judges for the Southern District. That panel divided with the Majority ruling that 'show good cause' was unconstitutional. It seems to be simple logic, the majority essentially said you either have to give them concealed carry or open carry, since you are restricting both, you are violating the 2nd Amendment.
Apparently you can appeal a panel hearing, which the Sheriff of Yolo County did. He was joined in his appeal by the Cali AG, who appealed in the case out of San Diego County after that Sheriff declined to appeal.
The California Statute puts the fate of someone who wants a concealed carry permit at the whim of the Sheriff, who may or may not deem the persons request as worthy. From what I understand, some Sheriff's readily grant permits, others, apparently Yolo County (adjacent to Sacremento and Nap counies) and San Diego County stifle concealed carry.
Politics.
To be honest, I wasn't aware of the whole process, thank you for explaining how they operate.
I know it still can be challenged/heard by SC. But had no idea how long this has truly been going on.
Thankfully Minnesota has legislation in place, but the whole issue is crazy to me.
I wonder how much crime will have to rise in the impacted areas for the people to get fed up of this decision. I know I will be writing to all I can on this issue.
I know it still can be challenged/heard by SC.
Might not want to do that with a 4-4 court, ex-Scalia, since ties let the ruling stand, AIUI.
This is cute and all.
I'm certain the hoods and thugs will be lining up to comply.
Can you steal a thief?
BuzzinSATX
06-09-16, 16:23
Sure, go ahead and stay home in November or vote for some 3rd party loser, what is the worst that could happen.
Yep...all our "Never Trump" folks will facilitate and accelerate this kind of crap if enough of them sit it the election....
I don't get it. I understand moral, forthright, honest folks have a hard time abiding by some of the foolishness that is the Trump campaign, but ultimately, these same folks are enabling a much worse outcome...
Hope we all wake up by October...
Take Care,
Buzz
The Never Trump people are just pissy because they bought into the "establishment" and are wanting to sulk because, like Rush Limbaugh, they are the smartest people in the room and for people to not acknowkedge this makes them upset.
Meanwhile everybody else is wanting just to be left alone which won't happen under Hillary Clinton.
I, personally, don't want to go back to permanent Y comps and fixed stocks.
I don't want to go back to 10 round mags, and I don't want an emboldened bunch of street hoods.
Doc Safari
06-09-16, 16:46
I, personally, don't want to go back to permanent Y comps and fixed stocks.
I don't want to go back to 10 round mags...
Are you kidding? This beeotch wants complete confiscation. You will long for the days when all you had to worry about was paying a premium for hi-cap mags.
Are you kidding? This beeotch wants complete confiscation. You will long for the days when all you had to worry about was paying a premium for hi-cap mags.
No I won't.
They can kiss my ass
where were we 10,20,30 years ago
then think about progression of whats happening in so many situations
who saw BLM happening ?
who saw the whole alphabet people wanting to share the toilet with your 10 year old daughter
who as the gov taking the side of those people over your daughter !
who saw the IRS attacking conservatives etc..
sadly what is going to happen will happen quickly and be to late sadly
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-09-16, 18:30
Might not want to do that with a 4-4 court, ex-Scalia, since ties let the ruling stand, AIUI.
How does it work with a tie? It stands for that jurisdiction, but doesn't become the law for the whole country???
It's pretty clear that if Hillary wins, we lose semi-autos. At best we have to register them, at worst it's turn them in.
On the "I aint' gonna" crowd, that works really well when you are some illegal alien or some one with nothing to lose BLM type. Sure, arrest them. Democratic DAs let them go and what is the worst that can happen to an illegal? They get sent back to the start line like in Monopoly. Gun guys are the ones who have stuff to lose and are inherent law followers.
I believe it was St. Augustine who observed that, absent a concern for truth and the public good--corrupt rulers and bands of robbers were indistinguishable from one another. The legitimacy of our institutions ("Trust us") is now at the level of tissue paper.
The Decalogue and the Bill of Rights pretty well cover the waterfront for me. These aspiring totalitarians with all their pronouncements can go to hell.
BoringGuy45
06-09-16, 19:00
The best case scenario is that the Supreme Court will just refuse to hear the case for the time being and the status quo will be maintained for now.
Not sure how up you are on the 9th.
The 9th Circuit is known for it's liberal-leaning decisions. The 9th not only includes Cali but the entire West Coast, plus Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona.
In this case the first hearing, before a panel of judges from the Southern District didn't go the way Cali's AG wanted so an en banc hearing was requested - en banc means all the judges heard the case, not just a panel of selected judges. The 9th has four appellate court locations, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and LA/Pasendena, so en banc means they brought all the judges together. Obviously, this resulted in a different finding.
You can read the whole case here: https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016-6-9-peruta-richards-enbanc-opinion.pdf
Basically the appeal from teh District Court was heard by a the panel of Judges for the Southern District. That panel divided with the Majority ruling that 'show good cause' was unconstitutional. It seems to be simple logic, the majority essentially said you either have to give them concealed carry or open carry, since you are restricting both, you are violating the 2nd Amendment.
Apparently you can appeal a panel hearing, which the Sheriff of Yolo County did. He was joined in his appeal by the Cali AG, who appealed in the case out of San Diego County after that Sheriff declined to appeal.
The California Statute puts the fate of someone who wants a concealed carry permit at the whim of the Sheriff, who may or may not deem the persons request as worthy. From what I understand, some Sheriff's readily grant permits, others, apparently Yolo County (adjacent to Sacremento and Nap counies) and San Diego County stifle concealed carry.
Politics.
Good explanation.
It should be noted for our California members that Kamala Harris is running for Senate.
How does it work with a tie? It stands for that jurisdiction, but doesn't become the law for the whole country???
It's pretty clear that if Hillary wins, we lose semi-autos. At best we have to register them, at worst it's turn them in.
On the "I aint' gonna" crowd, that works really well when you are some illegal alien or some one with nothing to lose BLM type. Sure, arrest them. Democratic DAs let them go and what is the worst that can happen to an illegal? They get sent back to the start line like in Monopoly. Gun guys are the ones who have stuff to lose and are inherent law followers.
Correct...a tie doesn't have the same effect as a majority opinion.
Straight Shooter
06-09-16, 20:54
Don't put that shit on me, or those of us with moral & religious objections to Trump & everybody else. This happened today, without Hillary, right? Soo, its gonna be my fault for not voting for evil when it happens again? I personally don't give two shits about the ruling myself. The SCOTUS can look at and either uphold it, overturn it, or shove it up their asses, I don't care. I carried for decades before it was "legal"..Ill do it again if/when "illegal".
Im hoping they push us so far that finally WE get up and start acting up, causing trouble, & tearing shit up, personally. We gun men & women have sat back too long, and long enough. Its time for a coordinated response to this shit.
Don't put that shit on me, or those of us with moral & religious objections to Trump & everybody else. This happened today, without Hillary, right? Soo, its gonna be my fault for not voting for evil when it happens again? I personally don't give two shits about the ruling myself. The SCOTUS can look at and either uphold it, overturn it, or shove it up their asses, I don't care. I carried for decades before it was "legal"..Ill do it again if/when "illegal".
Im hoping they push us so far that finally WE get up and start acting up, causing trouble, & tearing shit up, personally. We gun men & women have sat back too long, and long enough. Its time for a coordinated response to this shit.
Bingo.
I've accepted the fact that one day, I would become a criminal based upon some federal judge's INTERPRETATION of the law. People are scared to draw a line in the sand and stand up whenever their Constitution is being raped. As long as their satellite TV works, EBT is still providing, and Golden State is playing OKC, all is well.
For the "I don't want to go to prison" crowd; lick a boot then.
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FlyingHunter
06-09-16, 21:27
...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It's the only amendment that says: "Shall not be infringed"
yes but hillary says within reason and it was meant for military only and of course like all things it has limits and common sense things need to be in place
to think some folks cause they dont like trump are going to give the presidency to her instead !!!!
...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It's the only amendment that says: "Shall not be infringed"
Stop putting the blame on those of us who refuse to vote for a corrupt democrat just because he managed to get an R next to his name this election cycle. The fantasy that he would appoint anyone better than Billary to the SC is just that. A fantasy.
You don't get it? Then please open your eyes. Voting for him is no different than voting for her. You are kissing this country goodbye.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-09-16, 22:17
I swear to God that some of you are itching for the apocalypse.
MountainRaven
06-09-16, 22:30
Sure, go ahead and stay home in November or vote for some 3rd party loser, what is the worst that could happen.
Trump becomes President and trades the Second Amendment for being able to rename the White House to Trump House.
Might not want to do that with a 4-4 court, ex-Scalia, since ties let the ruling stand, AIUI.
I question whether SCotUS will even take up the case.
How does it work with a tie? It stands for that jurisdiction, but doesn't become the law for the whole country???
It's pretty clear that if Hillary wins, we lose semi-autos. At best we have to register them, at worst it's turn them in.
On the "I aint' gonna" crowd, that works really well when you are some illegal alien or some one with nothing to lose BLM type. Sure, arrest them. Democratic DAs let them go and what is the worst that can happen to an illegal? They get sent back to the start line like in Monopoly. Gun guys are the ones who have stuff to lose and are inherent law followers.
When was the last time you heard about somebody being arrested for a 922(r) violation? Or possession of an unregistered AOW or SBR?
BrigandTwoFour
06-09-16, 23:04
The California Statute puts the fate of someone who wants a concealed carry permit at the whim of the Sheriff, who may or may not deem the persons request as worthy. From what I understand, some Sheriff's readily grant permits, others, apparently Yolo County (adjacent to Sacremento and Nap counies) and San Diego County stifle concealed carry.
Politics.
It's not just stifling. Some sheriff's were straight up caught only giving out CCW permits in exchange for campaign donations. If I recall, one group successfully sued a a county a couple years ago and forced the release of "good cause" statements for both applications that were approved and those that were denied. In many cases, the approved applications had the same verbiage as the denied. In fact, I think one of the approved applications actually just had a smiley face drawn in the "good cause" block. Chronyism at its worst, playing with people's lives.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-09-16, 23:47
When was the last time you heard about somebody being arrested for a 922(r) violation? Or possession of an unregistered AOW or SBR?
Thanks for making my point. The lefty's who break laws have really nothing to lose and the laws are weakly enforced anyways. The problem is if any of us DID get caught with a 922(R), it is a end of life as we know it experience. I almost think that the gun laws are made so that they are really difficult to enforce, or they are made with no real intention of enforcement. That almost works for them. It doesn't have to be door-to-door confiscation. They make 7+ round mags illegal and who wants to shoot three-gun with illegal mags. At anytime they know that most gun owners have something in their house that would be illegal.
If they put a hard 10 round mag possession ban in, I don't think I could ever really be sure that I had found every mag in my house.
brushy bill
06-10-16, 00:13
Y'all do understand that the 9th is the most reversed circuit there is, right? They are famous for libtard decisions that are quickly meaningless and a testament to their foolishness...
Moose-Knuckle
06-10-16, 04:01
I've accepted the fact that one day, I would become a criminal based upon some federal judge's INTERPRETATION of the law.
Well none of us are getting out of this life alive any how . . .
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson
Straight Shooter
06-10-16, 04:41
I swear to God that some of you are itching for the apocalypse.
Aaaand...your point, sir?
Seriously..aint you & everybody else here sick & tired of just treading water, so to speak? I don't want an apocalypse...I want us to hash it out and BE DONE WITH IT. Either we lose, or we win, then that's the way its gonna be. Im sick of the win one today..lose two tomorrow shit that's been going on now for well over 30 years over firearms and other stuff in this country. Yes, we have the GOD given & Constitutionally confirmed right to live in freedom & liberty, AND DUTY to change this government when needed...the VERY REASON FOR THE 2A.
Instead of a North v. South situation again..I do advocate a Constitution v. Anti-Constitution dust up. We either live by that document, or we don't. We have the enumerated rights...and more...or we don't. Im here to tell yall...voting is OUT as a way of meaningful change in America. Illegal voting, fraud, judges that overturn voter approved ballots & initiatives, media propaganda for both sides..but waaay in favor of the Left, ect. ect. I understand the implications, but another type of civil war is ALL that's left, imo, to straighten out GOATFVCK that is America right now.
Aaaand...your point, sir?
Seriously..aint you & everybody else here sick & tired of just treading water, so to speak? I don't want an apocalypse...I want us to hash it out and BE DONE WITH IT. Either we lose, or we win, then that's the way its gonna be. Im sick of the win one today..lose two tomorrow shit that's been going on now for well over 30 years over firearms and other stuff in this country. Yes, we have the GOD given & Constitutionally confirmed right to live in freedom & liberty, AND DUTY to change this government when needed...the VERY REASON FOR THE 2A.
Instead of a North v. South situation again..I do advocate a Constitution v. Anti-Constitution dust up. We either live by that document, or we don't. We have the enumerated rights...and more...or we don't. Im here to tell yall...voting is OUT as a way of meaningful change in America. Illegal voting, fraud, judges that overturn voter approved ballots & initiatives, media propaganda for both sides..but waaay in favor of the Left, ect. ect. I understand the implications, but another type of civil war is ALL that's left, imo, to straighten out GOATFVCK that is America right now.
I'm with this guy. Tree of liberty and all that.
But first I need to get the hell out of NJ, I'm outnumbered here...
I had a conversation with a cab driver in Joplin, MO a year or so ago. Not real sure exactly how we got onto it or what the original topic was(I think Ferguson, MO), but I said something to the affect of "all this shit wont get fixed until the shooting starts" and the guy went into a spiel about Lincoln and freeing the slaves and blah, blah, blah and I said "you just proved my point, they solved the issue with a civil war i.e. they fixed it when the shooting started". Then the guy got my point.
PatrioticDisorder
06-10-16, 08:21
If this doesn't show how important the upcoming election is, I don't know what will. SCOTUS will be making some huge decisions regarding RKBA soon, I could see a Hillary stacked court completing reversing Heller.
PatrioticDisorder
06-10-16, 08:27
I forgot to add:
OBVIOUSLY this will go to the Supreme Court. In the SCOTUS's 50-50 divided state, it's likely the decision will stand and become precedence (if the Supreme Court decides to hear a challenge at all).
So, bottom line is: we just lost our right/privilege/gift of concealed carry anywhere in the nation where a state doesn't grant the right legislatively.
This was just effectively sliced out of the right to keep and bear arms, and I wonder if they will try the same technique with an assault weapons ban, a mag capacity ban, a semi-auto ban, etc.
We are screwed to an unfathomable depth in my estimation.
Again, shows how important this election is & SCOTUS...
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights
One of Trump's platform 2nd amendment positions is national right to carry (reciprocity). Get out and vote!
I had the conversation with a co-worker, a Canadian, who is vehemently anti-gun (I told him he could always move back but he likes our taxes versus theirs. Oh, the irony). He brings up the old and tired arguments that all the anti's use, and I knock them all down, one by one. His latest was about interpretation and regulation. I responded how he would like me to restrict the 1st Amendment (further than it is now)? Of course, his answer is that it's all different.
This is symptomatic of the larger problem. We use logic and reasoning, they use....well, whatever they use. Our sides can never cross.
I swear to God that some of you are itching for the apocalypse.
Of course they are. Its the result of a lot of fluoride and walking dead tv. They think they want it because they have a twisted PS3 fictional reality. That false reality will come back to bite them in the ass though if they ever get to scratch their "itch".
I swear, some folks have so little going for them they sit around wishing they were George Washington or Tommy J. Get over it, you weren't born in the 1700's...be thankful. OR you could go dress up like G. Washington and act like a lunatic, you know like those morons that tried to "take back" the wildlife refuge in Oregon.....let me know how that works out for you.
Eurodriver
06-10-16, 09:58
I had the conversation with a co-worker, a Canadian, who is vehemently anti-gun (I told him he could always move back but he likes our taxes versus theirs. Oh, the irony). He brings up the old and tired arguments that all the anti's use, and I knock them all down, one by one. His latest was about interpretation and regulation. I responded how he would like me to restrict the 1st Amendment (further than it is now)? Of course, his answer is that it's all different.
This is symptomatic of the larger problem. We use logic and reasoning, they use....well, whatever they use. Our sides can never cross.
Good point. We use logic too often. I have a buddy, we were on the way back from the range yesterday, who is constantly trolled on Facebook because he likes to post pics of him wearing his flight mask and gear or pics of him shooting at the range. For example, yesterday he posted a pic of his 16" DD with a caption something like "Shooting well at 600 yards!" Which he was. I was there. I saw him. He has a 2.5-10x and was using Hornady 75gr just ringing this IPSC steel left and right.
But then the trolls started. "I shoot at 600 yards with iron sights with an M4 at a 12" circle and get 100% even in 15mph winds" and "Yeah right. You were shooting at 100 yards don't lie to us" His problem was he started arguing logically, but when he started saying shit like "Actually, I shot to 800 yards with my Glock. I got many hits, but had to stop cuz my hollow points were going through the steel" then they left him alone.
I'm going to fight retardation with retardation from now on when they bring up guns.
Liberal CPA chick from NYC: "OMG, you don't need a background check here? They prevent crimes."
Euro: "Well my car is gasoline powered so it probably loves McDonalds. You wanna ****?"
Doc Safari
06-10-16, 10:36
It's kind of obvious from this thread that gun owners can often be their own worst enemy. This is the time to band together and elect people in November who are unashamedly pro-gun.
IF the day ever comes where Americans are actually forced to either surrender their guns or take up arms, I'm afraid the outcome won't be pretty whichever choice is made. Both scenarios are to be avoided if possible.
Straight Shooter
06-10-16, 15:02
Of course they are. Its the result of a lot of fluoride and walking dead tv. They think they want it because they have a twisted PS3 fictional reality. That false reality will come back to bite them in the ass though if they ever get to scratch their "itch".
I swear, some folks have so little going for them they sit around wishing they were George Washington or Tommy J. Get over it, you weren't born in the 1700's...be thankful. OR you could go dress up like G. Washington and act like a lunatic, you know like those morons that tried to "take back" the wildlife refuge in Oregon.....let me know how that works out for you.
Wondering what a "PS3 fictional reality" is ?
Wondering what a "PS3 fictional reality" is ?
People that sit their fat ass in front of a tv all day playing playstation until it warps their brain enough for them to believe their modern warfare skillz are going to save them when they turn into George Washington and take it to the man.
Maybe I should've used different terminology. It just seems these days people are really looking forward to some type of civil unrest, its kinda twisted. And honestly it would probably be in your best interest to keep your "dust up" fantasies to yourself. It comes off as very delusional. But given your signature, its kinda expected I guess.
I think people just want to be left alone, really.
And considering the high representation of military and police on this forum; most aren't looking for a fight but won't back down from one either.
I'm sorry people are disagreeing with you, and I encourage people to use courts to safeguard their rights, but someone seeking to deprive me or others of their personal property because of some decree will likely not catch most here in the best or most pleasant of moods.
We don't want people acting like baboons and rioting. We just want people to leave us be.
That's all
Straight Shooter
06-10-16, 15:38
Of course they are. Its the result of a lot of fluoride and walking dead tv. They think they want it because they have a twisted PS3 fictional reality. That false reality will come back to bite them in the ass though if they ever get to scratch their "itch".
I swear, some folks have so little going for them they sit around wishing they were George Washington or Tommy J. Get over it, you weren't born in the 1700's...be thankful. OR you could go dress up like G. Washington and act like a lunatic, you know like those morons that tried to "take back" the wildlife refuge in Oregon.....let me know how that works out for you.
People that sit their fat ass in front of a tv all day playing playstation until it warps their brain enough for them to believe their modern warfare skillz are going to save them when they turn into George Washington and take it to the man.
Maybe I should've used different terminology. It just seems these days people are really looking forward to some type of civil unrest, its kinda twisted. And honestly it would probably be in your best interest to keep your "dust up" fantasies to yourself. It comes off as very delusional. But given your signature, its kinda expected I guess.
PM sent...have an AWESOME day!
We can't have a civil war again. War requires a lot of running and I hate running.
I think people just want to be left alone, really.
And considering the high representation of military and police on this forum; most aren't looking for a fight but won't back down from one either.
I'm sorry people are disagreeing with you, and I encourage people to use courts to safeguard their rights, but someone seeking to deprive me or others of their personal property because of some decree will likely not catch most here in the best or most pleasant of moods.
We don't want people acting like baboons and rioting. We just want people to leave us be.
That's all
You're better with words than I. This is my sentiment as well. Leave us be and all is well. Is that too much to ask?
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I think people just want to be left alone, really.
And considering the high representation of military and police on this forum; most aren't looking for a fight but won't back down from one either.
I'm sorry people are disagreeing with you, and I encourage people to use courts to safeguard their rights, but someone seeking to deprive me or others of their personal property because of some decree will likely not catch most here in the best or most pleasant of moods.
We don't want people acting like baboons and rioting. We just want people to leave us be.
That's all
Perfectly stated! The problem is that Libtardedness requires forced mass-participation.....whether you want to or not.
I have no illusions (or delusions) of what an upheaval would entail. I don't want to spend the time I have left on this planet living like that quite frankly. That said, I will NEVER comply with a disarmament edict and whatever that would eventually entail, well, so be it. Don't mistake reluctance for weakness or acquiescence.
Doc Safari
06-10-16, 15:57
We can't have a civil war again. War requires a lot of running and I hate running.
Joking aside...we can't have a civil war like the first one for sure. The Confederacy was able to raise armies basically because the state militias in the south were pretty autonomous and were thus able to mobilize against the federal government quickly. In today's era, there isn't really a division along state lines like in the 1800's. In the 1800's people thought of themselves as "Virginians," "Texans", etc., and one of the consequences of the first civil war is that people began to think of themselves as "Americans". Today's situation will be more like the collapse of Yugoslavia: racial, culturual, and political enclaves will go at each other's throats while the federal government either intervenes, ignores, or foments the chaos. This time it will be dog-eat-dog and I don't think it will succeed in "restoring the Consitution." It will more likely result in a US so weakened that one of our enemies decides to nuke us or invade us and the fat lady will be singing for the Good Ol' USA.
FlyingHunter
06-10-16, 17:52
Leave us be and all is well. Is that too much to ask?
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Yes. It's too much to ask.
The government’s tendency toward overcriminalization, in which seems routine these days; everyday behaviors become targets of regulation and prohibition, have resulted in Americans getting arrested for making and selling unpasteurized goat cheese, cultivating certain types of orchids, feeding a whale, holding Bible studies in their homes, and picking their kids up from school.
Thats why they pass more laws and regulations per year than anyone can keep up with:
2015 was a record-setting year for the Federal Register, according to numbers the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C., released Wednesday.
This year’s daily publication of the federal government’s rules, proposed rules and notices amounted to 81,611 pages as of Wednesday, higher than last year's 77,687 pages and higher than the all-time high of 81,405 pages in 2010 — with one day to go in 2015.
Yes. It's too much to ask.
The government’s tendency toward overcriminalization, in which seems routine these days; everyday behaviors become targets of regulation and prohibition, have resulted in Americans getting arrested for making and selling unpasteurized goat cheese, cultivating certain types of orchids, feeding a whale, holding Bible studies in their homes, and picking their kids up from school.
Thats why they pass more laws and regulations per year than anyone can keep up with:
2015 was a record-setting year for the Federal Register, according to numbers the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C., released Wednesday.
This year’s daily publication of the federal government’s rules, proposed rules and notices amounted to 81,611 pages as of Wednesday, higher than last year's 77,687 pages and higher than the all-time high of 81,405 pages in 2010 — with one day to go in 2015.
But wait, we can just vote them out right?
I'm not sure what the answer is, but something has got to give. It seems that we just keep doing the same thing over and over while getting the same results. I mean let's face it, the politicians/judges/representatives have the power to do as they please and no one has to answer for any of it. The system has strayed so far from its original intent that it's scary. It'll get better when "our" guy gets in, yeah?
I'm not pursuing armed revolt, we all want to avoid that at all costs. However, our so called leaders have forgot that their sole purpose is to protect the rights of the people. Now they are trying to take the only means we have to remind them of that?
Look at history folks, it'll tell you all you need to know about the days to come. Call me a pessimist, or tin foil hat-wearing fearmonger but the entire 20th century has a plethora of examples of what a government can do to its people.
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I'm not pursuing armed revolt, we all want to avoid that at all costs.
Don't be so sure, some are more than willing to let you know they are all for it. See previous posts in this very thread.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-10-16, 22:24
Of course they are. Its the result of a lot of fluoride and walking dead tv. They think they want it because they have a twisted PS3 fictional reality. That false reality will come back to bite them in the ass though if they ever get to scratch their "itch".
.
Nobody ever thinks that they are going to be zombie.
Civil war over guns, won't happen. To fractious. Turn off the EBT cards.... mayhem on every street.
The 'funny' thing is that if they start down the AWB path in the hopes of pacifying us, they are just driving us towards the PRS game/toys. Politicians pushing us towards sniping rifles, great idea.
Nobody ever thinks that they are going to be zombie.
Civil war over guns, won't happen. To fractious. Turn off the EBT cards.... mayhem on every street.
The 'funny' thing is that if they start down the AWB path in the hopes of pacifying us, they are just driving us towards the PRS game/toys. Politicians pushing us towards sniping rifles, great idea.
Dear God..
I can see it now, "President Klinton has brought forth a series of executive actions that would make the purchase and transfer of magnified optics illegal under federal law."
[emoji88]
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MountainRaven
06-10-16, 23:05
Nobody ever thinks that they are going to be zombie.
Civil war over guns, won't happen. To fractious. Turn off the EBT cards.... mayhem on every street.
The 'funny' thing is that if they start down the AWB path in the hopes of pacifying us, they are just driving us towards the PRS game/toys. Politicians pushing us towards sniping rifles, great idea.
And that's why the bolt action rifles are next on the docket after the self-shuckers.
Straight Shooter
06-10-16, 23:15
......
Leaveammoforme
06-10-16, 23:31
Don't be so sure, some are more than willing to let you know they are all for it. See previous posts in this very thread.
What's wrong with having a Reset button as an option?
Are you familiar with why a rancher or farmer will burn pastures? Same thing applies here.
Eventually the undergrowth, unusable/dead vegitation and fallen trees need to go. Burning pasture can displace a few critters and be dangerous. A burn will also inconvenience anyone who desires to use the land before it has healed.
Once the land has healed, it comes back healthier than it could have been otherwise.
I agree that it's time for the undergrowth and worthless resources that add no value to go.
Don't be so sure, some are more than willing to let you know they are all for it. See previous posts in this very thread.
You are jumping to incorrect conclusions. Nobody wants it. Everyone here would prefer to avoid it. The issue being discussed by the people you are pointing a finger at, is that it appears that we the people are being backed into a corner and the only way out is to fight. We don't want to fight, but we also don't want to be backed into a corner.
What is your solution? Voting isn't working. Things get worse, government corruption is rampant and without consequences for the wrongdoers, our rights are not just being infringed upon, they are being trampled, the media has half the population duped into believing their lies, nearly half the country is on the dole in one way or another… And they just keep coming. Push, push, push. What is a concerned citizen to do about all this? You think fighting back is a delusional fantasy of video game players. What is your strategy then?
Eurodriver
06-11-16, 07:22
Don't be so sure, some are more than willing to let you know they are all for it. See previous posts in this very thread.
The people who talk about it the most are those both least inclined to pursue it and least able to pull it off. Fat Redneckbeards talkin bout "Yep Imma shoot them with this here deer rifle from two hunderd yards out I will. Damn yankee gov't. Thats why I got them there zombie max rounds. Kills em dead where they sit it does"
I've never seen a fit, healthy, intelligent gun owner advocate armed rebellion. Ever.
But they do.
I've never seen a fit, healthy, intelligent gun owner advocate armed rebellion. Ever.
So all of the founding fathers were fat, sick, and stupid?
Or do you mean you personally didn't see them, because all that stuff happened before you were born?
The people who talk about it the most are those both least inclined to pursue it and least able to pull it off. Fat Redneckbeards talkin bout "Yep Imma shoot them with this here deer rifle from two hunderd yards out I will. Damn yankee gov't. Thats why I got them there zombie max rounds. Kills em dead where they sit it does"
I've never seen a fit, healthy, intelligent gun owner advocate armed rebellion. Ever.
But they do.
And another thing: I have not seen anyone on this thread advocating "armed rebellion". Did I miss it? Fighting back against government tyranny can mean many things that are not involved with "armed rebellion".
And one more: If someone on this forum, or any other forum, were to advocate armed rebellion; where is the chart that shows each members weight, height, current medical conditions, and IQ? I remember hearing about a "chart" on this site, but I thought it was something AR 15 related...
Eurodriver
06-11-16, 09:57
Believe it or not, I actually do things in real life off of this forum and that is where the claims made in my post are coming from.
Problem is that if another AWB got passed during the Cunt's administration and only 5-10% of "evil black rifles" were turned in, they'd have egg on their faces. Sea Hag ain't one to take kindly to egg on her face. She would demand enforcement of her edict as opposed to passive enforcement (i.e. someone gets caught with one they get charged). Nope, the Bitch would want it pursued to the 'enth degree. That is where the rubber would meet the road folks.
Make sure you vote in your Congressional races this November too!
Growing up in the deep South, I frequently heard similar comments from those who claimed that they would defend segregation with their lives. Eisenhower in 1957 federalized the Arkansas National Guard and then sent them and 1000 101 paratroopers into Little Rock to restore order from rioting by mad white guys. In 1962 Kennedy federalized the Mississippi National Guard and sent them and 10,000 regular Army troops into the podunk town of Oxford, Mississippi where 3000 mad white guys with deer rifles, shotguns, and their daddy's Thompsons faced them eyeball to eyeball. During Katrina, certainly everyone here remembers seeing the 82nd Airborne rescuing citizens by entering their homes with M16s and then confiscating any weapons. In the Kennedy example above, I should have said that he sent 20,000 Army troops to Mississippi. He did, but 10,000 went elsewhere in the state.
Boys, be realistic with your fantasies.
Growing up in the deep South, I frequently heard similar comments from those who claimed that they would defend segregation with their lives. Eisenhower in 1957 federalized the Arkansas National Guard and then sent them and 1000 101 paratroopers into Little Rock to restore order from rioting by mad white guys. In 1962 Kennedy federalized the Mississippi National Guard and sent them and 10,000 regular Army troops into the podunk town of Oxford, Mississippi where 3000 mad white guys with deer rifles, shotguns, and their daddy's Thompsons faced them eyeball to eyeball. During Katrina, certainly everyone here remembers seeing the 82nd Airborne rescuing citizens by entering their homes with M16s and then confiscating any weapons. In the Kennedy example above, I should have said that he sent 20,000 Army troops to Mississippi. He did, but 10,000 went elsewhere in the state.
Boys, be realistic with your fantasies.
While I agree with being realistic, it cuts both ways. Oxford and Little Rock are specific towns. The scale of what we are referring to here is nationwide. There aren't enough .gov resources to physically control that large of an area. It would depend largely on how it was enforced: passively, as I mentioned above and more than likely no great upheaval would take place. Active, pitbull-like enforcement (middle of the night raids, doors kicked in, shootings/arrests, innocents killed "collaterally") would more than likely spark BIG problems. It is just as advisable to be avoided by .gov as it is by us. Hopefully it never comes to that, I've got better things to do!
Sticking up for segregation (essentially apartheid) runs counter to what a free country stands for and is an abomination. Forcefully revoking (at gunpoint) a Constitutional right is another matter entirely so I don't think the comparison between the two is valid. Guns are in all states, owned by all kinds of people. Ethnicity, color, religion, or geographically specific areas applied to segregation. Not so with guns.
You have valid points. I agree that defending segregation is a terrible action. But, I must remind you that only 2-3 generations ago, millions of so-called law abiding, Christian, and patriotic Americans considered integration to be an abomination and a threat to any and all advances made in Western Civilization. They would not have agreed that the two points were not valid considerations. Legislators in southern states would have said that segregation was constitutional and that the federal government was infringing on state rights. I'm reporting what many people within a large region believed. Note that I'm not defending this view.
Somewhere I need to point out that many Americans today would argue that the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee the right for me and you to own guns, and I must say in a loud voice that once Supreme Court decisions erode the 2nd Amendment with new interpretations, then the new laws will be considered constitutional. Furthermore, when this happens and with passage of time, reasonable men will no longer declare that you, I, or they have the right to keep and bear arms. We will have seen cultural evolution working to change laws and societal views on what is and is not reasonable.
I can't say that the Army will confiscate personal weapons. If the task eventually fell to local police, I would not be surprised. Nothing surprises me anymore. I predict that good Americans will be snitching on other good American about who does and does not own weapons. What's my basis for the comment? Personal experience and observation. I spent 45 years working in various agencies. I've never seen on that didn't run on the snitch system, and I've never worked for one that didn't lie.
I hope I'm wrong. I'm a Fudd and old and dumb and the years have eroded my quickness and sadly my faith too.
The scale of what we are referring to here is nationwide. There aren't enough .gov resources to physically control that large of an area.
Put it in perspective: Army + Marine active, reserve, and NG component might total 1M. Of which maybe 1/3 to half is combat arms at best. With a big chunk in deployments/locations that could not be involved.
IE: It would be a huge problem to mobilize 50-100k combat arms soldiers domestically the way they did at Little Rock back then.
82nd Airborne is 4 BCTs of just over 4k. One on hot standby, roughly another deployed/committed at any time.
Sure, could send a BCT in quickly and take a city. Hold a state? Not so sure, certainly not without total martial law and essential declaration of war on resistance.
In comparison, my state alone had over 400k hunters kill one or more deer last year. And we are small in that regard compared to PA, MI, etc. Roughly triple that buy big game licenses each year.
Current estimate is there are over 5M concealed weapon permits nation wide. FL is estimated at over 1M, for a population of 19M.
I'm not advocating anything, just reinforcing the point about scale.
Start using drone strikes, airpower and things would shift. And would get ugly very fast.
Then there is that whole posse commitatis thing
and at the same time the military cant even shoot bad guys in a war area over seas without getting in trouble or permission and when they do many end up in trouble !
they have also put the military into a paranoid what do I do situation
so if when they ever busted into homes I think many are going to realize they are there just for the show of power and once the military opens up on a few families things wont go so well !!!!
also I doubt very few will be willing to open up on families on our soil ?
its a nice scare tactic to use military folks like Katrina but that was a disaster and chaos going on already so only a few had to be displaced
I am not saying they wont use them and try but I think if it gets to that with only reason to confiscate we are going to get some that will fight back
along that same lines how well did the gov do with waco(spelling) or ruby ridge ? even the stand off in Oregon recently
could the gov try to do that with say 1000 places in each state taking a solid stand ?
all 3 of those were a mess and none ended up well for the guys inside BUT the public opinion also dropped for them and again I dont know that could be the tipping point that our country comes apart but then again that is what folks like her want so she can be the dictator of the new 3rd world USA
those stand offs took a long time and a lot of people again imagine 1000 in each state ? heck even 1000 of those over our country
if they came in with full force that alone means our country is over
just saying there are two sides and two ways and I really am not sure what would happen ?
talk is cheap but those are proof people are willing to stand and again confiscation I think we will get a lot more that will stand cause they know it will turn out like watching the jews jump out of the trucks and line up at the ditch ? that is what happens when you go along with it !
Growing up in the deep South, I frequently heard similar comments from those who claimed that they would defend segregation with their lives. Eisenhower in 1957 federalized the Arkansas National Guard and then sent them and 1000 101 paratroopers into Little Rock to restore order from rioting by mad white guys. In 1962 Kennedy federalized the Mississippi National Guard and sent them and 10,000 regular Army troops into the podunk town of Oxford, Mississippi where 3000 mad white guys with deer rifles, shotguns, and their daddy's Thompsons faced them eyeball to eyeball. During Katrina, certainly everyone here remembers seeing the 82nd Airborne rescuing citizens by entering their homes with M16s and then confiscating any weapons. In the Kennedy example above, I should have said that he sent 20,000 Army troops to Mississippi. He did, but 10,000 went elsewhere in the state.
Boys, be realistic with your fantasies.
Put it in perspective: Army + Marine active, reserve, and NG component might total 1M. Of which maybe 1/3 to half is combat arms at best. With a big chunk in deployments/locations that could not be involved.
IE: It would be a huge problem to mobilize 50-100k combat arms soldiers domestically the way they did at Little Rock back then.
82nd Airborne is 4 BCTs of just over 4k. One on hot standby, roughly another deployed/committed at any time.
Sure, could send a BCT in quickly and take a city. Hold a state? Not so sure, certainly not without total martial law and essential declaration of war on resistance.
In comparison, my state alone had over 400k hunters kill one or more deer last year. And we are small in that regard compared to PA, MI, etc. Roughly triple that buy big game licenses each year.
Current estimate is there are over 5M concealed weapon permits nation wide. FL is estimated at over 1M, for a population of 19M.
I'm not advocating anything, just reinforcing the point about scale.
Start using drone strikes, airpower and things would shift. And would get ugly very fast.
Then there is that whole posse commitatis thing
Okay, since we've gone down the road of a complete unravelling, I'll bite: those drones have to land somewhere, those pilots have to sleep somewhere (and so do their families). Internecine warfare is some of the most brutal, tit-for-tat, bloodthirsty, vengeance-bent fighting there is. If anyone thinks this would occur in a vacuum or be one-sided, think again. For instance, it wouldn't be long before the families of the JBT's (yes, I'll use that term as that is exactly what they'd be at that point) and politicians wouldn't be safe either once "collateral damage" began to occur, and it inevitably would. They kick in enough doors in the middle of the night or pop a Hellfire from a drone and likely sooner than later they're gonna kill someone they didn't really mean to. Hell, just the prospect of being a CREATED criminal and thus subject to such treatment as a domestic enemy worth killing is enough to enrage many people. Don't ever underestimate the power of revenge, especially with someone who feels they have nothing left to lose.
Also, and I'll say this just once, think things that go BOOM as opposed to things that go BANG. We don't have a shit-ton of 155 shells lying around here but Americans are VERY resourceful.
You don't ever have to "win" to succeed. You make the turmoil never-ending. For starters, you'll probably have entire states that say "Fvck you!" to the feds. Then the soccer-twat up the street who loves Hillary and had no problem ratting out her neighbor will eventually tire of armed convoys and checkpoints in her beloved little slice of Americana and the potential danger to her precious little brats. Constant power outages from sabotage, especially in the large urban areas which will be seen as valid targets due to their "blue" voter support (see county by county election maps from 2000 on), will become old real quick. The same weak-spined voters who supported the CREATION of a whole new class of criminals will likewise not have the stomach for prolonged misery. It may take a while but they'll cry "uncle" eventually and demand it stop, be it through a repeal of said law, amnesty, or even just giving those heathens their own part of the country to live in separate from them.
I would be remiss to not factor in that a sizable portion of our military and LEO's would refuse to participate. Maybe not even half, but it wouldn't take many to sow distrust, suspicion, and discontent amongst the ranks.
The above is why I emphasize the fact that NO ONE should want to go there, be they patriots or the government. It is lose-lose in so many ways for EVERYONE involved. It will inevitably lead to the end of the America we know now, and what will remain will be largely Balkanized and ineffective internationally. I just hope the other side has the common sense to know this, but the wild-eyed Libtard look makes me wonder........
Okay, since we've gone down the road of a complete unravelling, I'll bite: those drones have to land somewhere, those pilots have to sleep somewhere (and so do their families).
Snip
The above is why I emphasize the fact that NO ONE should want to go there, be they patriots or the government. It is lose-lose in so many ways for EVERYONE involved.
Agreed entirely. I did not want to get into the family "no safe haven" aspect, but for both military and LEO it would be a significant factor.
I have a light infantry officer son with all the right badges. He's still a young boot, but we have had similar discussions and his assessment is that it would never happen, would not be allowed to happen, and if forced would immediately escalate to the point that it would be the end of the US as we know it. So in his mind it's not even worth speculating on. Tactically, the answer is pretty clear.
We are far more at risk from boiling frog syndrome, IE: ongoing loss of individual rights via legal action.
platoonDaddy
06-11-16, 16:42
Country is friggin wack'o. Many hunters I know, aren't CCW holders and basically don't support the right to carry.
There was an op-ed piece in NYT written by a young lady who was raped on campus and wishing she was able to carry her firearm into a gun free zone. Very touching and then a nutty professor commented:
Jon
NM 7 days ago
That we are even discussing this shows how deeply mentally ill American gun fanatics like the writer of this column are. I am glad my time on campus as a professor will end in one year...if a student doesn´t shoot me first for no particular reason.
Great reply to his comment:
LiberalFascist
Vero Beach, FL 5 days ago
With your illogical fear of firearms you are doing your students a favor by retiring. Calling a rape victim mentally ill because she wants to be able to defend herself and believes others should be able to protect themselves is the epitome of mental illness.
No wonder we rank below most 3rd world nations when it comes to education.
Now i understand why kids want free college, i would too if all i was being taught was political correctness
Agreed entirely. I did not want to get into the family "no safe haven" aspect, but for both military and LEO it would be a significant factor.
I have a light infantry officer son with all the right badges. He's still a young boot, but we have had similar discussions and his assessment is that it would never happen, would not be allowed to happen, and if forced would immediately escalate to the point that it would be the end of the US as we know it. So in his mind it's not even worth speculating on. Tactically, the answer is pretty clear.
We are far more at risk from boiling frog syndrome, IE: ongoing loss of individual rights via legal action.
Absolutely. The most effective way for the Left to pass a total, turn-them-all-in ban (I think of Fineswine's smarmy mug when I type that) is to passively enforce it. A jilted ex-wife or girlfriend, cops in your house for some other reason, a neighbor rats you out for shooting, traffic stop, etc. and you get caught you go to jail for it. Sure, it would drive many of us "underground" so to speak, and the number turned in vs actually out there would be miniscule, but the threat of prison would loom over our heads for not complying from that point forward. Only hope then would be some administration in the future might repeal it or some future SCOTUS ruling declare in unconstitutional (yeah, good luck with that I know). That would keep the catalyst for outright violent resistance simmering just below the surface indefinitely.
While I'm sure very few military and senior LEO brass would be vigorously recommending a forceful confiscation, I just don't trust the judgement of the wild-eyed wackos on the Left. I can actually see them insisting upon it, the consequences be damned.
FlyingHunter
06-11-16, 20:26
Let's hear it for Texas:
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/06/11/governor-responds-texas-style-anti-gun-9th-circuit-court-ruling/
Texas Governor Greg Abbott responded in the clearest way any Texan could to the ruling by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals’ ruling that American’s don’t have the right to carry a concealed handgun. The governor invoked Texas’ original response to gun control activists, “Come and Take It.”
Let's hear it for Texas:
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/06/11/governor-responds-texas-style-anti-gun-9th-circuit-court-ruling/
Texas Governor Greg Abbott responded in the clearest way any Texan could to the ruling by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals’ ruling that American’s don’t have the right to carry a concealed handgun. The governor invoked Texas’ original response to gun control activists, “Come and Take It.”
That's what I'm talking about.
Testicular Fortitude.
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Moose-Knuckle
06-12-16, 03:15
Governor Abbott was the longest serving Attorney General of Texas, he has argued before SCOTUS and won.
He has called for an Article V Convention of the States. He doesn't **** about, I had the honor of speaking with him in person last month.
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