Wooohah
06-10-16, 16:39
First off, i'd like to introduce myself, as i'm still new to the M4 Carbine forums.
I've come here from Facebook, where I've run a few discussion groups for guns/ gear. I've elected to come here based on the censorship that Facebook absolutely loves to regularly hand out.
Using the search function, I don't think there is an informational thread for the pros and cons of AR500/ ESAPI yet, If there is i apologize.
I'm always up to learn new things about gear, as well as help people and share knowledge i have personally picked up or experienced.
These are the pros and cons from a file i have personally written that is in one of my Facebook groups. I get asked what kind of armor one should get, very regularly and got tired of repeating myself.
I see very often people saying how bad AR500 is or how bad ESAPI plates are, there are compelling arguments for both sides.
I aim to make this unbiased, and to list only the pros and cons. Therefore whoever is reading the thread can pick which one they want based on their needs or threat assessments.
I am not being paid by anyone to write this, this is with the intent of sharing information to help the community.
If you see something that you find is incorrect, please point it out and let me know. I've had a few professional firearms instructors confirm my post as valid.
If you have something to add, please let me know and offer a brief explanation.
Keep in mind this is still a general list, I have not explored the realm of hybrid armor just yet, and do not want to speak on behalf of that without personal knowledge. Therefore this does not include plates such as the Velocity Systems ULV 7.62 MSC Level 4.
Note: This comparison is between AR500 and level IV ICW ESAPI Plates and Level IV Standalone SAPI plates.
(CATI Armor, AR500 Armor Level 3+ etc. Vs Ceradyne APM2 ESAPI (L4 ICW), Velocity Systems Level 4 standalone SAPI, Paraclete Level 4 standalone SAPI)
This means this does not include Pistol threat AR500, Velocity systems ULV, Hybrid plates or the older triple curve SAPI plates or the old level 3 M80 SAPI plates or XSAPI plates.
*Important to note*
ESAPI plates are always to be used in conjunction with soft armor to reach its maximum threat protection capabilities of Level IV. The minimum threat level of soft armor one should use is IOTV spec, which is rated for 9mm 126gr. If level 2 or 2A soft armor meets such requirements, it can be used. If soft armor is not used, then the plate is rated level 3.
Officially, ESAPI plates are not NIJ rated, but are rated via Military-Spec, as most ESAPI plates are not available to civilians (With the exception of BulletProofME plates).
Military Spec for ESAPI plates is being able to stop one round of .30-06 AP just like NIJ Level IV, but it is also rated to stop a SECOND round at least 60% of the time. Also has to pass a drop test of being loaded with 10 pounds, loaded on an arm and dropped 4 feet onto a hard flat surface, such as a concrete floor.
The SAPI plates I talk about here are going to be standalone level 4 only. Which means it does not require IOTV spec soft armor to make it level 4.
Keep in mind you cannot have a standalone ESAPI plate, if it is standalone, it is a SAPI plate.
*NIJ ratings to note*
(Quoted from: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/189633.pdf)
NIJ Level III:
Protects against 7.62mm full metal jacket bullets. (US Military M80) at 150 grains, impacting at a velocity of 2,750FPS or less. Also provides protection against threats such as .223 Rem, 5.56x45mm FMJ, 30 Carbine FMJ and 12GA rifled slugs.
Rated to stop 3 rounds of 5.56x45mm
NIJ Level IV:
Protects against everything NIJ Level I-III covers.
Protects against .30-06 armor piercing bullets (US Military 30-06 AP-M2) at 166 grains, impacting at a velocity of 2,850FPS or less. Only officially NIJ rated to protect against one round of 30-06 AP-M2, as well as smaller threats. However, depending on the model/ mfg of the armor in question, it may be multi-hit capable. (Granted the round does not hit in the same place)
*Please note that the Level III+ rating AR500 manufacturers list is not an official NIJ rating*
AR500 is officially rated to NIJ Level III, they write III+ to distinguish that it can stop M855 (5.56x45mm green tip)
*US Military Spec E-SAPI rating to note* (Not official NIJ rating)
Must stop one round of .30-06 AP-M2 fired at 2,850 FPS or less, and stop a second round 60% of the time.
Must survive a drop test, being strapped with 10 pounds and dropped at 4 feet onto concrete flat surface.
ESAPI (Level IV ICW)- Pros
>Normally will be of a lighter weight than rifle threat steel armor
>(ESAPI plates without soft armor) will have a higher threat rating, (rated L3) plates will stop at least 3 rounds of 5.56x45mm or a round of 7.62x54 M80 Ball and higher velocity rounds. (L3 = 1 round of 7.62mm FMJ 150fr @ 2750+50 FPS)
>(ESAPI Plates with soft armor) Will have a higher threat rating, (Rated L4) plates will stop one round of 30-06 AP-M2. But are not always multi-hit rated, this depends on the manufacturer. However most will likely stop a few rounds of 5.56x45mm.
>Normally will be multi-curve, fits your body better, more comfortable.
>Will not spall (Create shrapnel upon impact).
SAPI (Standalone Level IV) pros-
>Some versions are boyuant, there are special standalone SAPI plates that also have a dual purpose for use as floatation plates. (These are much thicker)
>Will not require soft armor to be level 4.
>Does not create spalling upon impact of a round (Shrapnel of the round exploding)
>Normally of a lighter weight than AR500 armor, however standalone SAPI plates are heavier (Slightly) than ESAPI plates
>Normally will be multi-curve, fits your body better and is more comfortable.
>Protects against the highest NIJ Threat level of 30-06 AP-M2 rounds at 2,850 FPS.
ESAPI (Level IV ICW)- Cons
> Will require 9mm 126gr IOTV Spec soft armor at a minimum to make it level IV. Otherwise it is level 3.
>Expensive (If you go new/ non surplus). A set of level IV ESAPI plates can be $400+, Surplus ESAPI plates go for $250.
>Slightly fragile, cannot drop them or throw them around like AR500, therefore they may need to be replaced after months of *Hard use* (Belly flopping on rocks regularly, but unless you’re deployed, you don’t get that problem)
>Rated to stop a single round of 30-06 AP-M2 at 2,850 FPS and a second round at 60% of the time. (Not tested with M855 or M80 however *should* reasonably stop a few rounds if not hitting in the same place, and depends on distance.)
SAPI (Level IV Standalone)- Cons
>Expensive, Level IV Standalone plates are often $400 a set.
>Slightly fragile, cannot drop them or throw them around like AR500, therefore they may need to be replaced after months of *Hard use* (Belly flopping on rocks regularly, but unless youre deployed, you don’t get that problem) SAPI plates are more fragile than ESAPI plates, as SAPI plates are normally made of Ceramic, while military issued ESAPI plates are made of Boron Carbide.
>Not multi-hit rated, NIJ Level 4 certification does not require a plate to stop multiple rounds, however depending on the manufacturer, it may stop more than one round. (It will be listed) (But is still likely to stop a few rounds of M855 or M80 given it does not land in the same spot, and depending on distance).
AR500- Pros
>Cheap, very affordable
>Extremely Durable, belly flopping onto rocks and throwing it across the room or using it as a hammer... will be no problem.
>Reusable, Since AR500 can take a massive gang beating, if you are using these as part of a survival kit in a SHTF situation, if you have the equipment to recoat the plates with spall liner, it is reusable.
*Worth noting that AR500 armor can take upwards 150 rounds of M855 fired from a 16” AR-15.*
AR500- Cons
>Spalling is a huge issue, unless you are getting a double coating of Line-X or Rhino Liner. The bullet hitting the steel surface will cause it to literally explode and cause metal shards to fly into various body parts (Depending on your body position), your legs, arms, neck/ chin, feet, hands...
>Blunt Force Trauma, some good spall liners will stop about 10 rounds before spalling, however getting hit with a rifle round is literally like getting hit in the chest with a sledgehammer, full force. The energy transfer of steel is terrible, it goes right through the steel (The energy not the round), your armor may be capable of stopping 50 rounds... but your body will start having problems such as internal bleeding, broken ribs, stoppage of heart after a few rounds.
>Weight, extremely heavy, Much heavier than Ceramic plates
>Physics of steel, high velocity rounds will cut through AR500 steel like butter, its rated to stop 7.62x54r, however 5.56 fired out of a bolt action rifle or anything high velocity at about 2700? FPS will penetrate it like nothing.
>If you fall in the water, god have mercy, and I hope your carrier better be releasable, because you’re sinking like an anchor.
>Chance of ricochet. Being steel armor, if rounds hit it at a certain angle, it may deflect off the armor and either hit the wearer, or someone around them.
EXCEPTIONS-
-Ultra-Light Polyethylene Plates, this is made of a different material than the plates mentioned above, however is worth mentioning, they are significantly lighter than most Ceramic plates, however they are rated for Level 3, which is not the same as AR500, which is listed as Level 3+. Level 3+ does not officially exist on the NIJ spectrum, but is listed to note that it will stop M855.
Polyethylene plates are made of a different material than AR500, therefore subject to different physics.
It should be noted that Polyethylene plates are NOT rated to stop M855 (5.56x45mm Green tip).
Expensive, just about as expensive as a good set of Ceramic plates, but some people prefer these, because they may not see the threat of AP rounds.
Note: These plates do not perform well under extreme heat or extreme cold, under heat they may deform or melt. (under -15 deg F, and over 150 deg F) Prolonged exposure under the desert sun, or sitting in the snow in subzero temperatures may deform the plates.
Source:
http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.html
*ATTENTION*
PLEASE. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND WEAR SOFT ARMOR OR TRAUMA PADDING BEHIND YOUR PLATES. DO SO EVEN IF YOU HAVE STANDALONE LEVEL4 PLATES.
THE BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA OF A RIFLE ROUND HITTING YOUR CHEST IS NO JOKE.
EVEN WITH LEVEL IV ICW PLATES, GETTING HIT IN THE CHEST WITH A .30-06 ROUND MAY BREAK RIBS AND CAUSE INTERNAL BLEEDING.
Thank you to User: Defaultmp3 of M4Carbine.net for helping me add information and correct some points that i have made incorrectly.
I've come here from Facebook, where I've run a few discussion groups for guns/ gear. I've elected to come here based on the censorship that Facebook absolutely loves to regularly hand out.
Using the search function, I don't think there is an informational thread for the pros and cons of AR500/ ESAPI yet, If there is i apologize.
I'm always up to learn new things about gear, as well as help people and share knowledge i have personally picked up or experienced.
These are the pros and cons from a file i have personally written that is in one of my Facebook groups. I get asked what kind of armor one should get, very regularly and got tired of repeating myself.
I see very often people saying how bad AR500 is or how bad ESAPI plates are, there are compelling arguments for both sides.
I aim to make this unbiased, and to list only the pros and cons. Therefore whoever is reading the thread can pick which one they want based on their needs or threat assessments.
I am not being paid by anyone to write this, this is with the intent of sharing information to help the community.
If you see something that you find is incorrect, please point it out and let me know. I've had a few professional firearms instructors confirm my post as valid.
If you have something to add, please let me know and offer a brief explanation.
Keep in mind this is still a general list, I have not explored the realm of hybrid armor just yet, and do not want to speak on behalf of that without personal knowledge. Therefore this does not include plates such as the Velocity Systems ULV 7.62 MSC Level 4.
Note: This comparison is between AR500 and level IV ICW ESAPI Plates and Level IV Standalone SAPI plates.
(CATI Armor, AR500 Armor Level 3+ etc. Vs Ceradyne APM2 ESAPI (L4 ICW), Velocity Systems Level 4 standalone SAPI, Paraclete Level 4 standalone SAPI)
This means this does not include Pistol threat AR500, Velocity systems ULV, Hybrid plates or the older triple curve SAPI plates or the old level 3 M80 SAPI plates or XSAPI plates.
*Important to note*
ESAPI plates are always to be used in conjunction with soft armor to reach its maximum threat protection capabilities of Level IV. The minimum threat level of soft armor one should use is IOTV spec, which is rated for 9mm 126gr. If level 2 or 2A soft armor meets such requirements, it can be used. If soft armor is not used, then the plate is rated level 3.
Officially, ESAPI plates are not NIJ rated, but are rated via Military-Spec, as most ESAPI plates are not available to civilians (With the exception of BulletProofME plates).
Military Spec for ESAPI plates is being able to stop one round of .30-06 AP just like NIJ Level IV, but it is also rated to stop a SECOND round at least 60% of the time. Also has to pass a drop test of being loaded with 10 pounds, loaded on an arm and dropped 4 feet onto a hard flat surface, such as a concrete floor.
The SAPI plates I talk about here are going to be standalone level 4 only. Which means it does not require IOTV spec soft armor to make it level 4.
Keep in mind you cannot have a standalone ESAPI plate, if it is standalone, it is a SAPI plate.
*NIJ ratings to note*
(Quoted from: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/189633.pdf)
NIJ Level III:
Protects against 7.62mm full metal jacket bullets. (US Military M80) at 150 grains, impacting at a velocity of 2,750FPS or less. Also provides protection against threats such as .223 Rem, 5.56x45mm FMJ, 30 Carbine FMJ and 12GA rifled slugs.
Rated to stop 3 rounds of 5.56x45mm
NIJ Level IV:
Protects against everything NIJ Level I-III covers.
Protects against .30-06 armor piercing bullets (US Military 30-06 AP-M2) at 166 grains, impacting at a velocity of 2,850FPS or less. Only officially NIJ rated to protect against one round of 30-06 AP-M2, as well as smaller threats. However, depending on the model/ mfg of the armor in question, it may be multi-hit capable. (Granted the round does not hit in the same place)
*Please note that the Level III+ rating AR500 manufacturers list is not an official NIJ rating*
AR500 is officially rated to NIJ Level III, they write III+ to distinguish that it can stop M855 (5.56x45mm green tip)
*US Military Spec E-SAPI rating to note* (Not official NIJ rating)
Must stop one round of .30-06 AP-M2 fired at 2,850 FPS or less, and stop a second round 60% of the time.
Must survive a drop test, being strapped with 10 pounds and dropped at 4 feet onto concrete flat surface.
ESAPI (Level IV ICW)- Pros
>Normally will be of a lighter weight than rifle threat steel armor
>(ESAPI plates without soft armor) will have a higher threat rating, (rated L3) plates will stop at least 3 rounds of 5.56x45mm or a round of 7.62x54 M80 Ball and higher velocity rounds. (L3 = 1 round of 7.62mm FMJ 150fr @ 2750+50 FPS)
>(ESAPI Plates with soft armor) Will have a higher threat rating, (Rated L4) plates will stop one round of 30-06 AP-M2. But are not always multi-hit rated, this depends on the manufacturer. However most will likely stop a few rounds of 5.56x45mm.
>Normally will be multi-curve, fits your body better, more comfortable.
>Will not spall (Create shrapnel upon impact).
SAPI (Standalone Level IV) pros-
>Some versions are boyuant, there are special standalone SAPI plates that also have a dual purpose for use as floatation plates. (These are much thicker)
>Will not require soft armor to be level 4.
>Does not create spalling upon impact of a round (Shrapnel of the round exploding)
>Normally of a lighter weight than AR500 armor, however standalone SAPI plates are heavier (Slightly) than ESAPI plates
>Normally will be multi-curve, fits your body better and is more comfortable.
>Protects against the highest NIJ Threat level of 30-06 AP-M2 rounds at 2,850 FPS.
ESAPI (Level IV ICW)- Cons
> Will require 9mm 126gr IOTV Spec soft armor at a minimum to make it level IV. Otherwise it is level 3.
>Expensive (If you go new/ non surplus). A set of level IV ESAPI plates can be $400+, Surplus ESAPI plates go for $250.
>Slightly fragile, cannot drop them or throw them around like AR500, therefore they may need to be replaced after months of *Hard use* (Belly flopping on rocks regularly, but unless you’re deployed, you don’t get that problem)
>Rated to stop a single round of 30-06 AP-M2 at 2,850 FPS and a second round at 60% of the time. (Not tested with M855 or M80 however *should* reasonably stop a few rounds if not hitting in the same place, and depends on distance.)
SAPI (Level IV Standalone)- Cons
>Expensive, Level IV Standalone plates are often $400 a set.
>Slightly fragile, cannot drop them or throw them around like AR500, therefore they may need to be replaced after months of *Hard use* (Belly flopping on rocks regularly, but unless youre deployed, you don’t get that problem) SAPI plates are more fragile than ESAPI plates, as SAPI plates are normally made of Ceramic, while military issued ESAPI plates are made of Boron Carbide.
>Not multi-hit rated, NIJ Level 4 certification does not require a plate to stop multiple rounds, however depending on the manufacturer, it may stop more than one round. (It will be listed) (But is still likely to stop a few rounds of M855 or M80 given it does not land in the same spot, and depending on distance).
AR500- Pros
>Cheap, very affordable
>Extremely Durable, belly flopping onto rocks and throwing it across the room or using it as a hammer... will be no problem.
>Reusable, Since AR500 can take a massive gang beating, if you are using these as part of a survival kit in a SHTF situation, if you have the equipment to recoat the plates with spall liner, it is reusable.
*Worth noting that AR500 armor can take upwards 150 rounds of M855 fired from a 16” AR-15.*
AR500- Cons
>Spalling is a huge issue, unless you are getting a double coating of Line-X or Rhino Liner. The bullet hitting the steel surface will cause it to literally explode and cause metal shards to fly into various body parts (Depending on your body position), your legs, arms, neck/ chin, feet, hands...
>Blunt Force Trauma, some good spall liners will stop about 10 rounds before spalling, however getting hit with a rifle round is literally like getting hit in the chest with a sledgehammer, full force. The energy transfer of steel is terrible, it goes right through the steel (The energy not the round), your armor may be capable of stopping 50 rounds... but your body will start having problems such as internal bleeding, broken ribs, stoppage of heart after a few rounds.
>Weight, extremely heavy, Much heavier than Ceramic plates
>Physics of steel, high velocity rounds will cut through AR500 steel like butter, its rated to stop 7.62x54r, however 5.56 fired out of a bolt action rifle or anything high velocity at about 2700? FPS will penetrate it like nothing.
>If you fall in the water, god have mercy, and I hope your carrier better be releasable, because you’re sinking like an anchor.
>Chance of ricochet. Being steel armor, if rounds hit it at a certain angle, it may deflect off the armor and either hit the wearer, or someone around them.
EXCEPTIONS-
-Ultra-Light Polyethylene Plates, this is made of a different material than the plates mentioned above, however is worth mentioning, they are significantly lighter than most Ceramic plates, however they are rated for Level 3, which is not the same as AR500, which is listed as Level 3+. Level 3+ does not officially exist on the NIJ spectrum, but is listed to note that it will stop M855.
Polyethylene plates are made of a different material than AR500, therefore subject to different physics.
It should be noted that Polyethylene plates are NOT rated to stop M855 (5.56x45mm Green tip).
Expensive, just about as expensive as a good set of Ceramic plates, but some people prefer these, because they may not see the threat of AP rounds.
Note: These plates do not perform well under extreme heat or extreme cold, under heat they may deform or melt. (under -15 deg F, and over 150 deg F) Prolonged exposure under the desert sun, or sitting in the snow in subzero temperatures may deform the plates.
Source:
http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.html
*ATTENTION*
PLEASE. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND WEAR SOFT ARMOR OR TRAUMA PADDING BEHIND YOUR PLATES. DO SO EVEN IF YOU HAVE STANDALONE LEVEL4 PLATES.
THE BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA OF A RIFLE ROUND HITTING YOUR CHEST IS NO JOKE.
EVEN WITH LEVEL IV ICW PLATES, GETTING HIT IN THE CHEST WITH A .30-06 ROUND MAY BREAK RIBS AND CAUSE INTERNAL BLEEDING.
Thank you to User: Defaultmp3 of M4Carbine.net for helping me add information and correct some points that i have made incorrectly.