The Beretta PX4

[ramairthree]

Many do not appreciate the 92/M9 series.
When the Army adopted it,
It was not the gun operators were using.
It was in wimpy 9mm.
It was not the new gun operators went to.

If you were in the Rangers or Special Forces using beat to hell old 1911s with crappy even more beat magazines, the only thing you missed was the 45 ACP.

You now had twice the capacity in a pistol that was accurate and reliable with lots of new great magazines.

The gun was not perfect.
The size was not for everyone.
Front sight options were what you got.
Locking blocks in unserviced guns would fail.
Checkmate mags made to requested Army standards had issues in some conditions.
Concealed carry options were a compact that was not very compact and the centurion, even less compact.
Mag compatible subcompact became the 9000 with was not all that mag compatible, not as reliable as the 92,
With a horrible trigger,
And some guns with grip material issues,
Stupid snap opening grips instead of fixed base plates or mag extensions,
And a whole different manual of arms and controls.
And beretta was surprised it was not popular.

Early laser and light options did exist for the 92.
Instead of just making a railed version for more options,
A neat looking 90-two with some non compatible updates, slick grips held on by an edge of plastic, and a gay rail cover,
Surprised beretta by not being popular.

A more compact option than the 92, the cougar,
Came out. Using non 92 compatible magazines.
In a full sized version, a little seen compact version with some slide changes that messed up holster compatibility, a mini version you could not get a grip on, and stupid grip panels that went below the magwell,
Was reliable and had an interesting recoil reducing function, that messed up suppressor hosting,
But shared 92 manual of arms,
Again surprised beretta by not being popular.

At a time you think they would have introduced a polymer striker fired pistol,
A polymer frame for 92 uppers,
A more compact 92 series,
After a failed polymer frame pistol with snap open base plates,
A failed 92 non magazine compatible rotating barrel pistol,
A slick grip 92 update,
They combined polymer frame, non 92 mag compatibility,
Rotating barrel, and snap open base plates into one pistol,
The PX4.

And again seem surprised at its lack of popularity.

I put my money where my mouth is.

I have bought NIB 9mm versions of the full, compact, and sub compact versions.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/image_zps1c8qtzy3.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/image_zps1c8qtzy3.jpeg.html)

The PX4 combines a polymer frame with a hammer fired DA/SA upper.
You basically have three options with SA pistols.
A super light SA trigger you active a safety for.
A varying striker type trigger,
Or a DA fist pull for SA light follow up pulls.
Each have their pros and cons.

The subcompact is a PX4 in looks only.
It uses a tilt non PX4 non rotating barrel design.
Length, height, width are subcompact ish but it has a huge overall volume. It is very chunky to carry.
Beretta states it is smooth for CC draw.
It is slick.
I may not want my CC guns as grippy as a game gun,
But I have put over 1000 rounds through this gun in dry and rainy conditions.
Beretta stats the innovative snap base plate conceals better but opens on the draw for a better grip.
I know of no serious shooter that wants moving parts shifting on their guns front grip on the draw.
Function has been 100% reliable with SC and fills sized mags with sleeves.
Grouping is acceptable.
At ten yards it was 4 ins he's low and two left.
The worst POI/POA of any NIB pistol I have taken to the range.
My opinion of a subcompact is the average size hand on the intrinsic grip or with baseplates like a Glock 26 you can get a full grip and it is double stack.

Thinner and shorter single stack non full grip I consider a sub sub compact or pocket pistol. The 9000 has a better length grip. The cougar L has a better length grip.
The controls are less ergonomic than a 92.

Anyways, I cannot say bad things about function and reliability, but I would not recommend this as a sub compact concealed carry.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/image_zpsl2xvzwxc.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/image_zpsl2xvzwxc.jpeg.html)

The full sized is a joy to shoot.
Recoil is like a pellet gun.
But if you advertise a slick non catching sub compact for concealed carry, why does the full sized service pistol still feel like a wet bar of soap?
It is interesting.
Over a thousand rounds of full reliability. Accurate.
On target out of the box.
If your desire is a polymer framed, DA/SA full sized service pistol go for it.
It is an awesome compromise between a striker fired polymer gun and an all metal DA/SA gun. But it is just that, a compromise.
I would rather grab my Flock 17 or 92. There are things I like about each of those better.
There is not enough I like about the PX4 to choose it over either.

Now we move on the the compact.
It is a great sized gun except for the same huge amount of volume it occupies.
The dust cover / rail and tall slide just occupy a lot of space. It points better than a G19 and less recoil, but is not as overal sleek as it, a cougar L or 92c, at least the old non railed version.
And they introduce an ambi slide lock lever that makes it the widest of the PX4s.
Again, over one thousand reliable rounds fully reliable out of the box.

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu220/ramairfour/image_zpsvwgghmgn.jpeg (http://s649.photobucket.com/user/ramairfour/media/image_zpsvwgghmgn.jpeg.html)

I, and many people I know,
Enjoy a fully integrated line of magazine compatible pistols in suppressor height night sight thread, to game guns, to service pistol, to compact, and to subcompact.

Most major manufacturers do this.
Beretta has not done it in the 92,
And cannot do it in the PX4.

Triggers were mediocre for a DA/SA gun.

Like a socialist doubling down on failed policies,
Beretta seems bent on repeating historical failures and doubling down on pushing this line of pistols.

Crappy trigger on the 9000, CX4, and ARX.

Little interest in 92 non mag compatible guns, being out more.

Little interest in rotating barrels, bring out another.

Success in other companies updating and expand their flagship like CZ, RAMI, polymer framed versions, etc. don't do it.

These are interesting, reliable guns.
Limited factory and after market options.
No pricing advantage.

Beretta is not Kel Tec,
But they have the same look cool/ innovative for the sake of it vibe going to me,
Vs pure function with it being ok to look sexy.

[Cagemonkey]

Would like to like them, but the Lock Up Issue, doesn't seem to have either been remedied or word hasn't gotten out.

[mcnabb100]

I considered these, but the rotating barrel kind of scared me off. If it had the same type of locking mechanism as the 92 I might have bought one.

[CCK]

This was the hardest to read review I've seen in a while.

You seem to do a lot of complaining for someone who bought three of one thing.

[williejc]

The reviewer reported relevant findings. One point is that Beretta just doesn't get it and may not know why much of their stuff doesn't sell.

I'm a serious hobbyist and student of the pistol but never had serious training and never carried one for a living. I simply and without shame love the Beretta 92. Mine have always been meticulously cleaned and utter reliable under range and field(as in field and stream)conditions. There is not a better sock drawer or night stand pistol made. If I were a Soldier, Marine, Sailor, Airman or Lawman, my choice would be a Glock in one of the common calibers.

The op mentioned other Beretta handguns which would likely work well for my purposes but maybe not so well for a professional. It's this very point that Beretta may not perceive.

[ramairthree]

This was the hardest to read review I've seen in a while.

You seem to do a lot of complaining for someone who bought three of one thing.

Well, my uncorrected and unproofed post preview version posted instead of the corrected one, I will give you that.

I am just a regular guy,
No guns coming to me to review without buying them.

[ramairthree]

I was aware of it.
Has not happened with my cougar.
Has not happened with these.

I have heard it attributed to not being lubed enough, oil drying out, grease frozen, debris in cam groove, etc.
But not brought it up as it has not happened to me.

I have lubed but not cleaned them out of the box.
Will see if it occurs with more rounds.

Also,
Early compacts had too strong of a recoil speing for function.
My reloads use Bullseye, not the cleanest.

[CCK]

I don't own any of these. I don't understand the need to buy 3 when you have issues with 1 and then 2.

[graffex]

There not more popular because there garbage.

[Mrgunsngear]

I have a full size PX4 that I've done the G conversion to. Other than that it's factory. I've had 0 issues with it and I think for a DA/SA gun the trigger is great. Maybe it's just me....

[ramairthree]

What is this need you speak of?

Does my wife have a user name here that I did not know about.

Is PX4 a code name for some gay, Furry stuff and you searched for it and got my gun post by accident?

I have no need for a VP70, Steyr 1212, or a P7,
But would buy them and shoot them under the rights circumstances.

There are some Beretta fans proposing the SC as a great alternative to the G26.
A prominent competitor, instructor with a respectable military background is touting the Compact as a great carry gun and for IDPA CCP.
Some beretta fans rave about the full sized as superior to the 92 series.

I did not have those same options from very little handling and shooting of the line in the past.

I am gaining more direct experience with the line to see if I was missing something.

I had no need for a G26 when I was stationed in DC in the mid 90s and there was no possible means for CC in the area.
I really like my G19 and got a 26 the day they hit the shelves.
I hated that gun for a long time.
Extended baseplates and a good grip length and I love it.

Over ten years ago I built I AR10 from one of the more limited available options then.
I was not in love with the result.
SR25/DPMS magazines gave me reliability on par with old AR black follower mags in the early 80s.
Which meant hard to get through half a dozen mags without a malfunction.
I tried Magpul mags and love the gun.

I scoffed at offset iron sights as something to snag and get in the way and be cheesy.
My first impression of them was not good. Gave them a longer try
and on a game gun, it is blazing fast and accurate and useful for some things.

So,
Just applying direct, hands on experience here.

[DirectTo]

My dad's got a .40 compact with a little over 3k rounds through it with no issues that he carries daily.

I'm not a huge fan of the trigger, especially the reset, but I'm also a striker-fired guy so that's natural.

It doesn't seem to have the quality of my older early 80s Beretta but that goes for any major manufacturer these days.

[ramairthree]

I have a full size PX4 that I've done the G conversion to. Other than that it's factory. I've had 0 issues with it and I think for a DA/SA gun the trigger is great. Maybe it's just me....

I consider a 92 with D spring and broken in to be the mediocre / average DA/SA trigger.
An out of the box M9 is less than average.
An out of the box CZ75 better than average, etc.

The PX4 is supposed to have some drop on Match triggers and stuff that make it better than average.

[ramairthree]

There not more popular because there garbage.

Garbage has nothing to do with popularity.

Judges and Kel Tecs sell like hot cakes.

[williejc]

Garbage is a strong word. Most of us could learn to shoot these pistols and do ok. I say this from my needs as a hobbyist, gun tinker, plinker, and legal handgun carrier. I'm not in the advanced gun fighter category so I can do well with most handguns from the big makers. Since in my old age I can afford to buy and shoot what I choose, I can opt for other weapons. Many object to the B92's slide mounted safety. I say so what and keep on with what I'm doing, which by no means will ever involve being in a situation where safety location matters. One reason is that I don't use Beretta safeties. I decock with my thumb--which is not a good idea to start with.

[ramairthree]

I am all for frame mounted safety.
On guys carried cocked and locked.

On a DA SA with just using for decocking I am ambivalent.

[Big A]

At a time you think they would have introduced a polymer striker fired pistol,
A polymer frame for 92 uppers,
A more compact 92 series,
After a failed polymer frame pistol with snap open base plates,
A failed 92 non magazine compatible rotating barrel pistol,
A slick grip 92 update,
They combined polymer frame, non 92 mag compatibility,
Rotating barrel, and snap open base plates into one pistol,
The PX4.

And again seem surprised at its lack of popularity.


It boggles one's mind to try and understand how Beretta could be so out of touch with the market. All they need is a polymer frame of the M9A1 variety with the ability to switch from the standard back strap to the Vertec and it would sell like hot cakes.

Like the saying goes, Beretta couldn't market free sex...

[brickboy240]

I have shot my brother's PX4.

Meh...trigger as long and stagey as a 92FS, still to thick and chunky and that awkward safety way up on the back of the slide.

Pass. It just does not bring anything to the table, when you get down to it.

[JC5188]

Had one of the full sized for about 3 years. The slide serrations seemed an afterthought...useless. Made the gun feel cheap, even. And a weird looking thing also.

The decocker was in an awkward location. The rotating barrel...nah.

It was very accurate however, and I didn't mind the trigger.

Sold it as it quit singing to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Benito]

OP, thanks for the review, but that was a little difficult to read. I felt like I was reading a haiku about the Beretta PX4 and your life story.:)

I never even considered getting a PX4 because of all the proven options on the market and because of the rotating barrel thing.

[wanderson]

It boggles one's mind to try and understand how Beretta could be so out of touch with the market. All they need is a polymer frame of the M9A1 variety with the ability to switch from the standard back strap to the Vertec and it would sell like hot cakes.

Like the saying goes, Beretta couldn't market free sex...

I think their attempt at a 'modern' 92 was the 90-TWO, which I had for two years. It was just OK, always wanted a Vertec and I liked the slim grip option of the 90-TWO. But didn't care for the polymer slip on grip, which started to crack at the seam. And was a b!tch to remove & install. I didn't like it as much as my 96 centurion. I've always wanted to rent a full size PX4 in .45, I've shot a Cougar in 9mm and liked it for the price. But a PX4 is twice that.

Beretta strikes me as a company that seems less worried about selling & marketing guns than making them. I've had a 9mm CX4 carbine for years and it's probably my favorite pistol caliber carbine. Mine takes the 92 mags, but almost every new CX4 I've seen is set up from the factory for PX4 mags. Which would be great if Beretta would make a 30 round hi cap PX4 mag, which they don't.

[Mrgunsngear]

I think their attempt at a 'modern' 92 was the 90-TWO, which I had for two years. It was just OK, always wanted a Vertec and I liked the slim grip option of the 90-TWO. But didn't care for the polymer slip on grip, which started to crack at the seam. And was a b!tch to remove & install. I didn't like it as much as my 96 centurion. I've always wanted to rent a full size PX4 in .45, I've shot a Cougar in 9mm and liked it for the price. But a PX4 is twice that.

Beretta strikes me as a company that seems less worried about selling & marketing guns than making them. I've had a 9mm CX4 carbine for years and it's probably my favorite pistol caliber carbine. Mine takes the 92 mags, but almost every new CX4 I've seen is set up from the factory for PX4 mags. Which would be great if Beretta would make a 30 round hi cap PX4 mag, which they don't.

Historically that has been true but from my personal interaction with some of the company big whigs over the last couple years I can tell you it's changing for sure. One odd thing about Beretta vs. many other US based firearms companies is that the vast majority of the senior executives here aren't native born Americans. I'm not saying that to disparage them, but I do believe it held them back from really understanding the American consumer market. I think with the explosion of social media and their sales slipping they're starting to come around to the fact that gun mags aren't the place to spend $15k for a review/endorsement anymore.

[crusader377]

Beretta strikes me as a company that seems less worried about selling & marketing guns than making them. I've had a 9mm CX4 carbine for years and it's probably my favorite pistol caliber carbine. Mine takes the 92 mags, but almost every new CX4 I've seen is set up from the factory for PX4 mags. Which would be great if Beretta would make a 30 round hi cap PX4 mag, which they don't.

Beretta is a company that makes great guns but they really need to better think their product lines and have more product discipline. With the exception of FN, Beretta makes a greater variety of quality firearms than any other manufacturer. Beretta makes everything from .22 pistols and pocket guns which retail for a couple hundred dollars up to the $90,000 plus Beretta SO 10 over/under which is one of the finest guns in that category in the world.

[crusader377]

Historically that has been true but from my personal interaction with some of the company big whigs over the last couple years I can tell you it's changing for sure. One odd thing about Beretta vs. many other US based firearms companies is that the vast majority of the senior executives here aren't native born Americans. I'm not saying that to disparage them, but I do believe it held them back from really understanding the American consumer market. I think with the explosion of social media and their sales slipping they're starting to come around to the fact that gun mags aren't the place to spend $15k for a review/endorsement anymore.

That is very true and also I do feel culturally Beretta sees itself as sporting gun manufacturer who happens to also make tactical weapons instead of a truly integrated company like FN who has a strong presence in military/LEO/tactical civilian market while also having Browning and Winchester who covers their sporting side of the house.

[ramairthree]

Again sorry the poorly formatted uncorrected version was posted.

They definitely have a disconnect.

Regarding the 90 two,
Even the name is a confusing failure.
Slippery grips on a service pistol?
Your grips held on by a corner of plastic touching a metal pin?
Has any serious shooter ever requested a plastic pistol slip on rail cover for looks?

Regarding the CX4
I have had one about ten years.
I have as issue with wanting pistol mag compatible carbines.
Non standard height sights, horrible trigger.
Flimsy pull out rail on front.
The mag release and mag well inserts are flimsy.
It is a fun but not serious use carbine.
Home defense or on the roof of your 7/11 during a riot sure,
But I am not sure if it would take a weekend or two at a carbine course let alone night after night outside the wire.

It is like they do stuff to be innovative and cool and literally hire fashion design firms for looks,
But have lost their way regarding making serious use items professionals would be interested in.

Much of The sales these days are driven but items professionals speak highly of.

[piedrarc]

I would suspect someone who calls this weapon garbage simply can't shoot a DA/SA well. The PX4 is probably one of the most underrated TDA pistols I've shot. Reliable and extremely accurate at a great price point. The ability to easily convert to "G" is a huge plus.

[ramairthree]

I think that would be a little unfair.
Even when you are very familiar with DA SA guns,
A critical evaluation of the pistol reveals:
The trigger is very mediocre. Surely after so many years of experience with this action it could have been better.

Ergonomics are mediocre. Safety decocker made with looks in mind, but not comfort or ease of use.
slick grip with decades of gen 2 Glocks, a failed pistol of their own with slick grips, etc. makes no sense.

Reliability issues with early, large LEA sales.

Below average sight radius for a gun so large.
It's like they learned nothing from the Cougar,
Or the 92,
With regards to too short an upper for a full sized or not short enough an upper for a compact.

It seems to be a pistol few are proponents of.

[piedrarc]

I think that would be a little unfair.
Even when you are very familiar with DA SA guns,
A critical evaluation of the pistol reveals:
The trigger is very mediocre. Surely after so many years of experience with this action it could have been better.

Ergonomics are mediocre. Safety decocker made with looks in mind, but not comfort or ease of use.
slick grip with decades of gen 2 Glocks, a failed pistol of their own with slick grips, etc. makes no sense.

Reliability issues with early, large LEA sales.

Below average sight radius for a gun so large.
It's like they learned nothing from the Cougar,
Or the 92,
With regards to too short an upper for a full sized or not short enough an upper for a compact.

It seems to be a pistol few are proponents of.

It's far from unfair.

What brand hasn't had issues? Not one.

Trigger is subjective, of the 6 I've tried all of them were excellent triggers including my personal PX4.

Ergo' are very good, a lot of people hack there glocks up. Yes even Gen 4's.

At the end of the day it's opinion and we do have choices.

[Zirk208]

OP, thanks for the review, but that was a little difficult to read. I felt like I was reading a haiku about the Beretta PX4 and your life story.:)

I never even considered getting a PX4 because of all the proven options on the market and because of the rotating barrel thing.

I was trying to think of to reply to this review, and I think you summed it up about right.

For the life of me I couldn't follow your review and replies since every six words starts a new line and a new thought.

[ramairthree]

It's far from unfair.

What brand hasn't had issues? Not one.

Trigger is subjective, of the 6 I've tried all of them were excellent triggers including my personal PX4.

Ergo' are very good, a lot of people hack there glocks up. Yes even Gen 4's.

At the end of the day it's opinion and we do have choices.

Sure,
All brands have had issues with a gun. It is the string of issues that is concerning.

The 92 update was a failure and is off the market. Even the 90-two name was a failure.
The 9000 had deteriorating grips, unreliability, QC issues with some shipped guns firing on decocking, a horrible trigger, and is off the market.
The Cougar had no particular niche and is no longer made by Beretta.
The full sized PX4 had issues with initial LE purchases and was replaced. The sub compact is huge and chunky for a sub compact. The compact shipped with reliability issues and had a recoil spring recall. Shoot one in the rain stock or a SC with the snap base plates- the texture and baseplates were not at all well thought out.
The ARX was introduced with rail QC issues and has a horrible trigger.
The CX4 had a horrible trigger and housing breakage QC issues and is no longer made.
The M9A3 suppressor host does not have suppressor height sights and the barrel is too short for some suppressors without an adapter.
You cannot go out and buy a NIB model Beretta 92 series with G function and a front sight you can change. You can get an FS Vertec, FS Brig, or G old slide fixed sight one.
The Nano came out with reliability issues and is not highly recommended.

The PX4 has found no major market or popularity in a decade. I did not say it had a horrible trigger. I said it was mediocre compared to other DA SA guns out there. There were decades of polymer frame and decades DA SA gun experience when this gun came out. Experience that could have made this a great, popular gun. Instead they brought it to market with things common to other failed lines. Slippery grips, stupid snapping base plates, non 92 magazine compatibility, initial reliability issues, etc. that relegate them to collecting dust in gun shop display cases and being listed on gunbroker for infinity even at fire sale prices.

My three examples have been reliable. They have been accurate with regards to grouping. My SC has the furthest POA/POI discrepancy of any NIB gun I have ever bought. And I have bought a lot since the 80s.

I think our difference of opinion is,
You say it is a good gun and you like it.

I say it is a mediocre gun and I don't hate it.
I am just dismayed it could have been a great gun and incredulous they keep failing with line after line of gun.

At what point does a company realize it's only semi auto pistol carbine or success in decades has been when an outsider special orders a version of their flagship they were not making on their own?

[Slater]

The whole rotary barrel concept is nothing new, as the old Steyr M1912 would attest to. And it proved a reliable performer in the mud and filth of World War I trench warfare so the design can made to be dependable. Slovakia's "Grand Power" pistols also use this feature and I've heard a lot of positive reviews on them.

Not sure why Beretta had so many (early?) issues.

[Andrewsky]

I have a full size 9mm PX4. I got it in a trade and did not take it seriously at all. I had always heard on the internet how much these suck. It was really just that I was having a hard time getting rid of the gun I traded for it, and figured I'd give this gun a quick try at the range and then sell it.

I immediately converted it to a decocker only, which takes about an hour. The safety on these is terribly difficult to manipulate.

To my surprise I think it is a better handgun for me than many others.

Here are some benefits I've found:

-I am as accurate or more accurate with this gun than other handguns, including 1911s
-Mine has been 100% reliable, no malfunctions whatsoever
-The recoil impulse is smoother than any other centerfire handgun I've shot, due to the rotating barrel
-Because the recoil is so low it is easy to fire rapidly; huge advantage here!
-The grip feels wonderful to me and has enough texturing so it isn't slippery
-The size is not that bad (equivalent to a VP9); the chunkiness is more of an optical illusion than anything else
-The trigger is extremely smooth in DA and SA

I haven't found any negatives!

[ramairthree]

Yes, in terms of recoil the compact and especially full sized are very enjoyable.

I have never seen a PX4 at a match.

If a 92g with optic does not make weight for carry optics, maybe it would be a niche for full sized PX4 in G mode.

The 92 is not renown for fantastic ergonomics.
You would think the 90-two and the PX4 would have been taken as a means to hit it out of the park ergonomics wise.

[AFshirt]

Had one in our last 8 hour 500 round class. Malfunctioned so much failure to feed the student had to finish with a range Glock 17. All 3 mags he Brought and multiple brands of ammo.

[brickboy240]

Isn't the Glock 17/19 usually the right answer to other pistol failures?

...I tend to think so. LOL

[Mrgunsngear]

I have a full size 9mm PX4. I got it in a trade and did not take it seriously at all. I had always heard on the internet how much these suck. It was really just that I was having a hard time getting rid of the gun I traded for it, and figured I'd give this gun a quick try at the range and then sell it.

I immediately converted it to a decocker only, which takes about an hour. The safety on these is terribly difficult to manipulate.

To my surprise I think it is a better handgun for me than many others.

Here are some benefits I've found:

-I am as accurate or more accurate with this gun than other handguns, including 1911s
-Mine has been 100% reliable, no malfunctions whatsoever
-The recoil impulse is smoother than any other centerfire handgun I've shot, due to the rotating barrel
-Because the recoil is so low it is easy to fire rapidly; huge advantage here!
-The grip feels wonderful to me and has enough texturing so it isn't slippery
-The size is not that bad (equivalent to a VP9); the chunkiness is more of an optical illusion than anything else
-The trigger is extremely smooth in DA and SA
I haven't found any negatives!

I'll have to second that. It's a sample size of two now so take it for what it's worth

[ramairthree]

The only two current readily available rotating pistols I know of right now are the PX4 and the Beretta equipment sent to Turkey Stoeger made Cougars.

I heard someone talking about getting a Grand Power pistol that also had a rotating barrel but have never seen one.
It is also a polymer framed DA SA gun.

When it comes to polymer framed DA SA guns,
Has anyone ever seen or done a shoot off type of review on them?

Off the top of my head would be PX4, 2022, HK45/P30, P07/P09, FNX, some stuff they don't make anymore like the P95.

What else am I missing?

[dookie1481]

They're not more popular because they're garbage.

There you go.

[colt191145lover]

Ernest Langdon has had great luck with the Beretta PX4 Compact 9mm . Last round count I saw he was at 26,000 rounds through one of them.

[Cagemonkey]

Interesting. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/25/ernest-langdon-and-the-px4-storm/ Always kind of wanted to like it. Its the lock up issue that I think scared people away.

[colt191145lover]

Agreed , If Ernest Langdon had not started using one with very little issue I woudent have touched one. Now I own two of the PX4 compacts and will be taking a class from Langdon in October.

[colt191145lover]

So apparently hes up to almost 30,000 rounds now https://www.instagram.com/p/BGprzgutvnS/?taken-by=ernest.langdon

[Cagemonkey]

Cool. Thats good to know. Will be interesting if this can change some minds.

[ramairthree]

Yes, with a few parts replaced he has a IDPA New niche with it.

I will have to say,
Eating crow a little,
After about 1200 rounds, the triggers on my compact and especially full sized feel like they have had a trigger job.

While my first impressions were mediocre da SA trigger,
I have to admit they age better than mediocre.