Questions on the 2A & Founding Fathers

[Straight Shooter]

Were there ANY of the Founding Fathers who could be considered anti-gun? Did ANY advocate against the 2A?
The "separation of church & state" crowd loves to quote that line from one of Jeffersons personal correspondence. So, there
MUST be words written outside of the Constitution declaring the Founders intent on firearms and the 2A. Ive seen a couple, but can anyone provide additional info on this?
How many states DO NOT have a 2A type clause in their own state Constitutions?
Also- did ANY of the Founders advocate, call for, or list as reason for the 2A, the rebellion against a Federal Government gone bad?
Finally- who could be considered the FIRST anti-gun POTUS?

[J-Dub]

Didn't they cover this at the monthly sovereign citizen meeting?

[Firefly]

I fear the Framers of our Constitution were simply unaware of how illiterate their descendants would be.

[Straight Shooter]

I fear the Framers of our Constitution were simply unaware of how illiterate their descendants would be.

ABSOLUTELY. See post above yours, for example.

[Outlander Systems]

http://founders.archives.gov/?q=Project%3A%22Madison%20Papers%22&s=1511211111&r=1

Better have a LOT of time, bro.

; )

The powdered wig crowd did NOT have TV, so they were smarter than us, and far, far more eloquent.

See post #2 as an example.

[Straight Shooter]

http://founders.archives.gov/?q=Project%3A%22Madison%20Papers%22&s=1511211111&r=1

Better have a LOT of time, bro.

; )

The powdered wig crowd did NOT have TV, so they were smarter than us, and far, far more eloquent.

See post #2 as an example.

WOW! Thanks a lot for this...gonna be a lot to go over.

[Outlander Systems]

Absolutely. Generally, it was pretty much universally accepted as a way of life, and I've yet to be aquainted with any dissenting voices.

Their biggest concern was of standing armies. That's why we have the NDAA; to appropriate funds on an annual basis.

As to the 2nd Ammendment, read the Heller Case and McDonald v Chicago for a modern interpretation, per the SCOTUS.


WOW! Thanks a lot for this...gonna be a lot to go over.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Didn't they cover this at the monthly sovereign citizen meeting?


Ha! Better chance herding cats.

[FlyingHunter]

The British certainly supported Hillary's anti 2A stance of "no powder or guns for thee":

Before dawn on September 1, 1774, 260 of Gage’s Redcoats sailed up the Mystic River and seized hundreds of barrels of powder from the Charlestown powder house.

The “Powder Alarm,” as it became known, was a serious provocation. By the end of the day, 20,000 militiamen had mobilized and started marching towards Boston. In Connecticut and Western Massachusetts, rumors quickly spread that the Powder Alarm had actually involved fighting in the streets of Boston. More accurate reports reached the militia companies before that militia reached Boston, and so the war did not begin in September. The message, though, was unmistakable: If the British used violence to seize arms or powder, the Americans would treat that violent seizure as an act of war, and would fight. And that is exactly what happened several months later, on April 19, 1775.


One of my personal favorites from George Mason:

"To disarm the people...is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

[Outlander Systems]

If anyone wants a good bedtime story for their kids, look into the Pine Tree Riot of 1772.

It showed the attitude of the people, around the the time of the revolution, towards a government that demanded too much from them.

*No guns were used in the switching and humiliation of the King's Sherrif.

https://allthingsliberty.com/2013/02/the-pine-tree-riot/


“Whiting seized his pistols and would have shot some of them, but they caught him, took away his small guns, held him by his arms and legs up from the floor, his face down, two men on each side, and with their rods beat him to their hearts’ content. They crossed out the account against them of all logs cut, drawn and forfeited, on his bare back….They made him wish he had never heard of pine trees fit for masting the royal navy. Whiting said: “They almost killed me

http://www.ederflag.com/media/k2/galleries/188/us-washingtons-cruisers-flag.jpg

[williejc]

Firefly, you might try teaching school to learn just how dumb people have become, and I'm convinced that there is no end in sight. If ignorance was contagious, I'd be dead. Perhaps you and your buddy with the club foot might open up a charm school for young women and teach values of chasity, sensible lifestyle, and joy of motherhood to a generation of young women. :lol:

[26 Inf]

I read a lot on the Bill of Rights and James Madison. Madison initially didn't think a Bill of Rights was necessary, he thought everything had been covered in the preamble. My reading has lead me to understand the Bill of Rights was added to gain support of Southern Colonies to insure the Constitution was ratified.

I could be wrong.

Given the times, I doubt that any of the founding fathers were anti-gun.

IIRC 'Hidden History of the 2nd Amendment' is a fun read.

[Moose-Knuckle]

"Anti-gun", "gun control", etc. was not in the lexicon of 19th Century colonial North America.

People utilized firearms to harvest animal protein to feed their families. They engaged in commerce, fur trapping was the preeminent industry of the day up until whale oil took over. They required firearms to afford protection from raiding parties, criminals, mega fauna, etc.

The concept would have been alien to them.

[JC5188]

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

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Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787


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"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823


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It really is simple, if people just read what the men said. As referenced above, modern interpretation of the meaning of the document is wholly unnecessary. It means what it has ALWAYS meant.


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[Whiskey_Bravo]

Didn't they cover this at the monthly sovereign citizen meeting?


What are you talking about?

[SeriousStudent]

Didn't they cover this at the monthly sovereign citizen meeting?

Stay out of this thread, and stop baiting people with the drive-by snide remarks.

[.46caliber]

I fear the Framers of our Constitution were simply unaware of how illiterate their descendants would be.
Bingo. Sort of. The "shall not be infringed" clause is pretty definitive. And the only point in the Bill of Rights with language that poignant. IIRC.

I don't doubt that there are those that are illiterate enough that they don't understand the verbiage. As frightening as it is, that's not the worst part. Our legislators, presidents and courts certainly understand what that clause means. They simply choose to defy it, ignore it or obscure it.

Illiteracy can relatively easily be corrected. The really disturbing realization is that those with power to affect change in the law are the ones that will deny the right even though they fully understand it. And that is not easy, if not impossible, to remedy.

[ForTehNguyen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxvqSFRX18U