View Full Version : Orlando Nightclub Shooting (NOW- 1 year later)
OPD reports approximately 20 dead, 40 injured at Pulse nightclub south of downtown Orlando. Shots fired, developed into several hour hostage situation, LE entered and shot and killed the suspect, who was armed with an "assault type rifle", handgun, and some types of "devices". 1 LEO injured.
FBI indicates shooter "may have" had jihadist leanings.
http://www.wesh.com/news/multiple-shots-reported-at-downtown-orlando-nightclub/40017844
(This thread is about the Orlando night club shooting and directly related, thoughtful information and discussion. Please direct your generalized outrage at the gay lobby, islam, their cartoons and memes, etc to another appropriate thread. - ST911)
BoringGuy45
06-12-16, 06:38
It's only been mentioned in passing on the news here. The fact that this is the worst mass shooting since Newtown and the fact that, eight hours later, this isn't ALL over the news, tells me that the shooter is of an inconvenient demographic and can't be traced to the NRA, Donald Trump, or someone on anti-depressants. New developments could change that though.
It's only been mentioned in passing on the news here. The fact that this is the worst mass shooting since Newtown and the fact that, eight hours later, this isn't ALL over the news, tells me that the shooter is of an inconvenient demographic and can't be traced to the NRA, Donald Trump, or someone on anti-depressants. New developments could change that though.
Takes time to get a Trump shirt on him, and make the bullet holes line up...
It's currently being viewed as a domestic terrorism event by LE was the announcement I just heard. Was a big gay nightclub according to CNN. Whether that was the reason for the target is unknown at this time.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 07:42
Yeah.
Gay nightclub.
Devout Muslim who is not a US Citizen.
I'm not "that guy" who hopes for violence, but if he turned out to be a refugee this would certainly be akin to the sheep telling the farmer to let the poor hungry wolves sleep on the farm.
FBHO
PatrioticDisorder
06-12-16, 07:46
Initial thoughts are.
1. Rest in peace to the victims, my thoughts & prayers are with the family, looks like a horrible incident.
2. Night clubs are "gun free zones" in Florida, looks like it's about damn time that "logic" is revisited. When I lived in PA I routinely carried when I went out, it's one of my pet peeves about Florida that bars are a gun free zone.
3. It makes a lot of sense it would be a jihadi and if that's the case you're going to see the left give the typical knee jerk reaction blaming white guys, Christians, NRA and gun owners... They will suffer yet again from foot in mouth disease and thankfully we have a candidate running for the highest office that instinctively knows how to stay on the offensive instead of curling up in the the fetal position and being defensive.
My local news is saying it was a "controlled explosion"???
Edit: LEO may have dedicated his/a bomb vest?
This is going to be interesting..... Holy Cow! 20 dead and they are saying the club is a bunch of smaller rooms.... although I suppose you could have a 100+ people in a single room.
Gay Club, Latin Theme Night, Domestic Terror, Rifle, Handgun, Other Device that is being reported might likely have been intended for first responders. I haven't heard the jihad part yet.
My local news is saying it was a "controlled explosion"???
Edit: LEO may have dedicated his/a bomb vest?
Probably threw a flash-bang or two, but the shooter had "some kind of device" on him. Might have been some kind of bomb that they blew up in place.
It is not surprising, but interesting, to look at the difference between how Fox News is covering the event and how CNN is covering the event. If anyone ever doubted that we get two different versions of the news, all they need do is look at the internet news coverage on this event.
I fail to see why liberal gays are so sympathetic to Islam.
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 07:58
It is not surprising, but interesting, to look at the difference between how Fox News is covering the event and how CNN is covering the event. If anyone ever doubted that we get two different versions of the news, all they need do is look at the internet news coverage on this event.
I fail to see why liberal gays are so sympathetic to Islam.
and they blame white christian westerners for intolerance. The west is the most tolerant in history. Islam is anything but tolerant
Tom Brokaw just said on Meet The Press that an "AR-14" was used & is calling for a ban on assault weapons. [emoji57]
Logic(theirs)dictates that the anger and outrage will be turned on the gun and not the idiot behind it.
platoonDaddy
06-12-16, 08:28
I fail to see why liberal gays are so sympathetic to Islam.
Maybe this will be their wake-up call.
EDIT: Law enforcement sources told CBS News the gunman has been identified as Omar Mateen, a U.S. citizen from Port St. Lucie. Mateen was born to Afghan parents in 1986.
My comment: About 124 miles from Orlando, he must have had some connection to this nightclub.
39946
Top of page at NYT article regarding mass shooting at gay night club in Orlando.
I wasn't expecting to see LEO carrying this firearm. Is this a common thing?
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 08:30
Maybe this will be their wake-up call.
I doubt it.
Looks more like a HK UMP.
Maybe this will be their wake-up call.
I can't recall a situation where a Liberal 'wakes up'.... generally they double down.
FBI is "leaning toward Islamic Terrorism" as a motive according to CBS.
Won't stop the media from putting the focus on the evil assault rifle as the biggest problem in the whole incident.
The shooters name is Omar.
FBI is "leaning toward Islamic Terrorism" as a motive according to CBS.
Won't stop the media from putting the focus on the evil assault rifle as the biggest problem in the whole incident.
Someone from the FBI must've had enough of the PC bullshit as I don't recall them ever calling it terrorism this early after an incident.
Tom Brokaw just said on Meet The Press that an "AR-14" was used & is calling for a ban on assault weapons. [emoji57]
39948
This is the picture of the guy Tom Brokaw was referring to.
But in all seriousness, If he wasn't a US citizen and he passed the background check, then shouldn't NCIS take the hit on this one? The only gun control I would be for is looking a little harder at those that do not fall under the civil liberties of our constitution.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 09:04
The shooters name is Omar.
Omar Mir Seddique Mateen
An officer was wounded during the shootout, but was saved by his Kevlar helmet, police said.
It would be interesting to see what model of helmet it was.
This cool guy, kevlar-beanie thing with the shrinking helmets is not a good trend.
But in all seriousness, If he wasn't a US citizen and he passed the background check, then shouldn't NCIS take the hit on this one?
No background check needed.
http://floridaguntrader.com/index.php?a=5&b=340
No background check needed.
http://floridaguntrader.com/index.php?a=5&b=340
Are you going to go off on those websites and gunshows too? Everything I've purchased off of Armslist came with me showing my ID and me grabbing a pic of theirs. On of the first rules I ever learned when getting out of high school was how to cover my own ass.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 09:15
In all seriousness, there are many in middle America who feel the ability for anyone to meet someone in a parking lot and exchange cash for an AR15 is a serious issue. Even many "pro-gun" folks have issues with lack of registration and ease of purchasing.
We need to have an effective means of combating that, or else we will be facing Brady Bill 2.0
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 09:16
I'm going with MICH 2000 for $300, Alex.
Omar Mir Seddique Mateen
It would be interesting to see what model of helmet it was.
This cool guy, kevlar-beanie thing with the shrinking helmets is not a good trend.
No background check needed.
http://floridaguntrader.com/index.php?a=5&b=340
It would be interesting to see what model of helmet it was.
Team Wendy?
On snap, too soon?
Averageman
06-12-16, 09:24
There must be two dozen progressives in the White House basement having a nervous breakdown trying to figure out how to spin this one.
I'm betting they will disregard everything except Tom Brokaw and mix in some "White, Christian, Heterosexual, Male Guilt" in there just to keep it on point.
If I die of a stroke, there will likely be a bullet hole in the TV right where one of the Progressive Media Heros had their face on the screen seconds before.
Jeeze I hope there is a nice glass of scotch at my elbow.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 09:24
Team Wendy?
On snap, too soon?
Lol, how did I know someone would do that
Body count raised to 50 (!)
Mayor now saying up to 50 dead, 50+ injured
FBI is "leaning toward Islamic Terrorism" as a motive according to CBS.
Also, reportedly had made previous terror threats.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 09:29
Democratic Underground is already talking about
Religious, right wing male killing gays. :rolleyes:
Also, reportedly had made previous terror threats.
Again, lots of warning signs very little action then, a huge call for it now. The cycle begins anew.....
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 09:30
Again, lots of warning signs very little action then, a huge call for it now. The cycle begins anew.....
Nobody wants to be a racist bro.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 09:30
I have a feeling the numbers will rise.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 09:31
Wtf, now an imam is speaking on fox. That was fast damage control. He has been given more time than the polic or mayor. " don't rush to judgement"
Nobody wants to be a racist bro.
Well this made me laugh! Nicely done.
Omar Mateen, a U.S. citizen from Port St. Lucie. Mateen was born to Afghan parents in 1986.
If that's true, I wonder when they immigrated, if he is naturalized or born citizen, and if they were part of the SIV program.
Nobody wants to be a racist bro.
Hey, maybe he is just celebrating Ramadan? You know, earning points with Alah?
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 09:40
death toll is up to 50 now, gunman identified as Omar Mateen
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/isis-announced-florida-attack-three-days-ago/
50? 50!?? Are you fvcking kidding me??
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
This just sucks. The Islamo-Terror sh1theads have repeated said they wanted to bring ME style violence to the US. This is just going to be the most recent incident. There will be more.
The FBI almost never calls large scale events like this terror the same day. They must have a lot on this dude.
death toll is up to 50 now, gunman identified as Omar Mateen
Originally they were saying 20. How could they possible been off by that much? Secret room?
This will most certainly help DT and throws cold water all over the "let all the Syrian's into the Country" debate.
Condolences to the victims families.
In all seriousness, there are many in middle America who feel the ability for anyone to meet someone in a parking lot and exchange cash for an AR15 is a serious issue. Even many "pro-gun" folks have issues with lack of registration and ease of purchasing.
We need to have an effective means of combating that, or else we will be facing Brady Bill 2.0
Yes. And it is true that, if you call enough of those Armslist or Craigslist ads, you are likely going to be able to find someone that will sell you such a gun without wanting to see a CCW, permit-to-purchase or other proof that it's OK for you to possess a gun. I agree that most responsible people would always want to see some evidence that the buyer was OK to own a gun. In this state, you are legally obligated to make your best effort in that regard because if you don't, you are on the hook if that gun is subsequently used in a crime. But not all states require that, and not all people are screened by the seller because not everyone has the same sense of responsibility. Parking lot gun sales are pretty common. No way to know how in many of those the seller actually made that identification effort.
I agree with Euro that that kind of thing is the reason why background checks for all firearms purchases are ultimately likely.
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 09:59
shooter had no criminal history, had a FL CHL, he wouldnt need to meet in a dark back alley to get a gun. Terrorist recruiters want people like this so they fly under the radar
Bars/nightclubs are a gun free zone in Florida.
Yes. And it is true that, if you call enough of those Armslist or Craigslist ads, you are likely going to be able to find someone that will sell you such a gun without wanting to see a CCW, permit-to-purchase or other proof that it's OK for you to possess a gun. I agree that most responsible people would always want to see some evidence that the buyer was OK to own a gun. In this state, you are legally obligated to make your best effort in that regard because if you don't, you are on the hook if that gun is subsequently used in a crime. But not all states require that, and not all people are screened by the seller because not everyone has the same sense of responsibility. Parking lot gun sales are pretty common. No way to know how in many of those the seller actually made that identification effort.
I agree with Euro that that kind of thing is the reason why background checks for all firearms purchases are ultimately likely.
Problem being, if the gun is traceable to me and I sell it, even if I confirm the person I sell it to is gtg, if he then sells it to someone who is NOT gtg it comes back on me. Since no kind of transfer took place with my transaction.
Not to mention, none of that would have done anything to prevent this latest shooting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 10:04
Are you going to go off on those websites and gunshows too? Everything I've purchased off of Armslist came with me showing my ID and me grabbing a pic of theirs.
I guess you're confusing "having ID" with "not being a prohibited person."
It's ok... we don't have to lie to each other in here...
I've bought off VAGuntrader and not been asked to show shit. One dude was like... just flash me your license... flash it! I won't write down your address and I have a bad memory...
I guess being licensed to operate a motor vehicle = good guy?
You maybe might have a bill of sale. Whoopdee doo. I'm sure it will aid investigators after the fact...
We need to have an effective means of combating that, or else we will be facing Brady Bill 2.0
Print it in a table right on the back of the license or state ID, Nutrition Facts style...
Prohibited person to own a firearm? YES/NO
CCW? YES/NO
No fly list? YES/NO
Voting? YES/NO
Sex Offender Registry? YES/NO
Armed Forces Veteran? YES/NO
I'm going with MICH 2000 for $300, Alex.
I'll go with Oops Core, Maritime Ops, Skelmet Operator 2000.
Wow, and he's a registered Democrat after all.
The way that imam said this could not be prevented and this can happen anywhere was little sketchy.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 10:09
Link?
The way that imam said this could not be prevented and this can happen anywhere was little sketchy.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 10:11
Originally they were saying 20. How could they possible been off by that much? Secret room?
In a mass casualty event, the death toll can often double within 24 hours once all the hospitals call in.
It's a sad reality, but probably a few of them could have made it if they weren't competing for beds/ resources with 103 other victims.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 10:13
Link?
He was on the press conference fox showed about 20-30 minutes ago. He also said not to jump to conclusions, and pretty much spoke about gun control and that we needed to do something about mass shootings.
Print it in a table right on the back of the license or state ID, Nutrition Facts style...
Prohibited person to own a firearm? YES/NO
CCW? YES/NO
No fly list? YES/NO
Voting? YES/NO
Sex Offender Registry? YES/NO
Armed Forces Veteran? YES/NO
Some of which could become incorrect the day after issued.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 10:15
Roger that. Typical teleprompter tripe. Got it.
He was on the press conference fox showed about 20-30 minutes ago. He also said not to jump to conclusions, and pretty much spoke about gun control and that we needed to do something about mass shootings.
I've bought off VAGuntrader and not been asked to show shit.
Happened to me here just 2 weeks ago. Seller didn't ask, but I volunteered that I was not a prohibited person and showed him my TX DL to establish my residence, which is all that is required. I also told him that I did it so he wouldn't have to lie if ever asked. As a buyer I am good to go, but I have trouble being a seller that way.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 10:23
Some of which could become incorrect the day after issued.
...or you could use a fake ID.
...or you could use someone elses ID.
Just like you could do filling out a 4473. It would be a crime though.
I agree that the very best way is to have an checkme.gov just like eVerify. Make it a damn phone app! Dads could check out the guy picking up his daughter for a date in real time on screen in the living room.
The difference between that and this is that the .gov couldn't just flip all the switches one day and make you ineligible for everything without you knowing... and, for the foil-ies among us, they couldn't monitor your account and sort out who you were checking for employment, firearms transactions, curiosity, or dating reasons.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 10:26
Happened to me here just 2 weeks ago. Seller didn't ask, but I volunteered that I was not a prohibited person and showed him my TX DL to establish my residence, which is all that is required. I also told him that I did it so he wouldn't have to lie if ever asked. As a buyer I am good to go, but I have trouble being a seller that way.
LOLOLOL!
You told him you were not a prohibited person, and volunteered that you would attest to the same in the future?
And then showed him your permit to operate a motor vehicle??
Dude... that's like buying weed on the corner and saying "It's medicinal, I promise" and then showing the dealer a HS football trophy.
I agree that the very best way is to have an checkme.gov just like eVerify.
So just register everyone? I don't think so.
The difference between that and this is that the .gov couldn't just flip all the switches one day and make you ineligible for everything without you knowing... and, for the foil-ies among us, they couldn't monitor your account and sort out who you were checking for employment, firearms transactions, curiosity, or dating reasons.
Oh, yeah, I am sure that would work out just fine! (sarcasm)
What's interesting about this event is the fact there was an LEO on detail who did engage. The POS ran into the club a that point to story says. I know post Columbine SOP was to engage an active shooter vs wait 'till the cavalry showed up.
Do we know why the LEO didn't follow and continue the fight? Was he injured? Other? It's a damn shame this didn't end as the TX event did with one old school cop taking out the shooters before they even got 10ft from their car.
I'm going with MICH 2000 for $300, Alex.
http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag347/GTF425/1E29ADCA-D88D-41B0-BAB7-E87E4AC97811-753-000000A8FE4217D0_zpsdspu55mu.jpg
This is the helmet.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 10:46
Wow, lucky dude.
IF this is true... it's a grand piece of irony;
Shooter apparently on the "D" side of the fence
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/06/12/orlando-shooter-is-a-us-voter-heres-his-registration-the-left-wing-media-wont-want-you-to-see-351614
http://freedomdaily.com/devout-muslim-gay-nightclub-shooter-identified-omar-mateen/
I too want to know what happened with the first officer already on scene.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 10:47
What's interesting about this event is the fact there was an LEO on detail who did engage. The POS ran into the club a that point to story says. I know post Columbine SOP was to engage an active shooter vs wait 'till the cavalry showed up.
Do we know why the LEO didn't follow and continue the fight? Was he injured? Other? It's a damn shame this didn't end as the TX event did with one old school cop taking out the shooters before they even got 10ft from their car.
LOL bro. You're a street cop with a Glock and some ISIS worshipping homeboy (or more, you don't know) engages you with a semi automatic rifle. You gonna go charging in or wait for the cavalry? Cops have no duty to protect anyone, and that LEO went home to his family today because he did the right thing.
What do cops get paid? $80k/yr? **** that.
A few coordinated attacks like this in one city, or multiple cities, and the first responders would be completely overwhelmed. Be prepared to protect and bandage your own. This is just a sample of things to come.
The way that imam said this could not be prevented and this can happen anywhere was little sketchy.
Oh, he sounded like a piece of work. Possibly getting a feel for how Obama can present things. Yeah, the guy telling the media not to sensationalize things.
So this is going tobe a tough one for Obama. His Muslim leanings would be naturally anti-gay. He said Newtown was his worst day. So now he has 50+ gays dead at the hands of what appears by all accounts to be a radical Muslim.
I love the media, Tom Brokecow in particular... We can't jump to conclusions but we need to have a discussion to take guns out of citizens hands.
Has anyone considered that based on the hail of gunfire that some could have been hit by friendly fire?
I can't understand the time line.
Police exchange fire outside at roughly 2AM --- I assume he had already shot the place up by then, thus the Police responding.
Then he goes inside and holds hostages for 3 hours and apparently was not shooting anyone.
Then they breech and large amount of gunfire. Hard to believe all of that only hit the bad guy.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 11:04
What's interesting about this event is the fact there was an LEO on detail who did engage.
He was off-duty, non on-detail.
Probably they have a moonlighting list.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-12-16, 11:04
Roger that. Typical teleprompter tripe. Got it.
http://www.allenbwest.com/michellejesse/just-in-muslim-imam-makes-stunning-statement-about-orlando-shooting
A few coordinated attacks like this in one city, or multiple cities, and the first responders would be completely overwhelmed. Be prepared to protect and bandage your own. This is just a sample of things to come.
Not to mention it is a mirror image of the Paris nightclub attack. Well except for dear old dad says he just saw two guys kissing and got upset.
So this guy was in a FBI database for his associations AND he was a security guard or had a security guard license......
platoonDaddy
06-12-16, 11:11
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/CkwV0eWWgAAB1MV_zpsxmqvhtfx.jpg (http://s933.photobucket.com/user/slickville/media/CkwV0eWWgAAB1MV_zpsxmqvhtfx.jpg.html)
Not to mention it is a mirror image of the Paris nightclub attack. Well except for dear old dad says he just saw two guys kissing and got upset.
So this guy was in a FBI database for his associations AND he was a security guard or had a security guard license......
Look at what Dorner accomplished by himself, or the Boston marathon twits.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 11:14
So just register everyone? I don't think so.
What do you mean "register everyone?"
Like... give them a number and keep track of their eligibility to own firearms?
I don't think you understand how things currently work, so I don't think you'll come up with many good ideas to improve the system...
Has anyone considered that based on the hail of gunfire that some could have been hit by friendly fire?
Then they breech and large amount of gunfire. Hard to believe all of that only hit the bad guy.
Beslan 2.0?
https://twitter.com/nichornstein/status/741928099332395008/video/1
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 11:15
God-DAMN!
If I were that LEO, I'd be writing a love letter to MSA.
Wow.
I don't win Jeapardy. Looks like a 2002.
This is the helmet.
LOL bro. You're a street cop with a Glock and some ISIS worshipping homeboy (or more, you don't know) engages you with a semi automatic rifle. You gonna go charging in or wait for the cavalry? Cops have no duty to protect anyone, and that LEO went home to his family today because he did the right thing.
What do cops get paid? $80k/yr? **** that.
Dude, I'm not armchair quarterbacking the LEO, I'm simply asking the Q on that aspect of this event. I very rarely if ever armchair quarterback those in such a situation.
He was off-duty, non on-detail.
Probably they have a moonlighting list.
OK, that's another aspect I was not aware of.
eightmillimeter
06-12-16, 11:20
President to speak at 1:30P EST
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 11:22
Dude, I'm not armchair quarterbacking the LEO, I'm simply asking the Q on that aspect of this event. I very rarely if ever armchair quarterback those in such a situation.
I wasn't saying you were, I just have seen a lot of "Why didn't the cop do anything" over the internet. :agree:
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 11:25
President to speak at 1:30P EST
Synopsis:
Gotta get the guns out of the hands of bad people.
Need to stop assault weapons being available to the public.
Shooter's actions do not represent the views of Muslims.
The M4C Staff can change my name to EuroTranny if he does not touch on at least one of these points.
BoringGuy45
06-12-16, 11:25
President to speak at 1:30P EST
I won't be listening. It'll be the same as San Bernardino: No reason to suspect Islam had ANYTHING to do with this. This wouldn't have happened if the gun he owned was banned. While a white, Christian, Trump-supporting NRA member was NOT the perp in this crime, this is something they WOULD do, so we can safely blame them for this crime as we reflect on how peaceful Islam is compared to Judaism and Christianity.
Look at what Dorner accomplished by himself, or the Boston marathon twits.
Which called for more gun control when the vast majority of the damage caused by homemade explosives. When I said that to people I'd get responses like "well, you have to start some place" as denial of reality comment.
I wasn't saying you were, I just have seen a lot of "Why didn't the cop do anything" over the internet. :agree:
Rgr rgr. No doubt, a very bad day for that LEO anyway you look at it.
Digital_Damage
06-12-16, 11:38
President to speak at 1:30P EST
Don't think I can listen to it, Would not be able to handle the bullshit he spews.
I too want to know what happened with the first officer already on scene.
He was the off duty guy that exchanged fire outside. If you mean was he injured... I don't think so. Even the guy that got shot in the head, someone reported that he only got scratches. I doubt if the off duty guy followed the shooter in when he was going into hostage mode. That would have been suicide.
Don't think I can listen to it, Would not be able to handle the bullshit he spews.
I expect he's practicing was to fake cry.
According to Fox News they stated that the PODS was a US citizen who also is a Muslim. Mom and Dad were Afghani immigrants. Also stated that he recently married someone from Uzbekistan, but no further info on the wife. Anyone closer have more info on this "similarity" between this guy and the San Bernadino guy.
Wonder if the whole fly the LGBT flag over a US consulate in Islamic lands during Rubadub finalized the target selection for this guy??
Senator Geraldine somebody from Florida was just on and so Begins the blame the gun,assault rifle, large capacity magazine,. Blame everything but the person behind the trigger
Digital_Damage
06-12-16, 12:00
Getting in the car to go give blood. They are in serious need of o-pos if anyone is close to the area.
Reported now that shooter called 911 and declared allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of ISIS, before the shooting.
At least they are actually calling it terrorism right now.
Is that because they can't call it work place violence?
Establishments that are bars also here are gun free zones here too.
RIP to the victims.
eightmillimeter
06-12-16, 12:13
Synopsis:
Gotta get the guns out of the hands of bad people.
Need to stop assault weapons being available to the public.
Shooter's actions do not represent the views of Muslims.
The M4C Staff can change my name to EuroTranny if he does not touch on at least one of these points.
As funny as that would be, he will hit all probably several times, and we won't be hearing from EuroTranny any time soon.
http://i.imgur.com/HqcnsIb.jpg
I'll just leave this here.
The linked article is actually pretty good about the history and influence of the AK47.
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 12:21
Getting in the car to go give blood. They are in serious need of o-pos if anyone is close to the area.
Good man!
Reported now that shooter called 911 and declared allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of ISIS, before the shooting.
Source?
Now reporting he called 911 an pledged his allegiance to Al-Baghdadi / ISIS.
It wasn't a week ago I saw some on the news stating ISIS couldn't make any more large scale attacks. Can't figure out who that was... Maybe Obama will tell us the truth about this. I can't wait.
Source?
According to the news, multiple police officials.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 12:25
Good man.
Getting in the car to go give blood. They are in serious need of o-pos if anyone is close to the area.
Dude, I'm not armchair quarterbacking the LEO, I'm simply asking the Q on that aspect of this event. I very rarely if ever armchair quarterback those in such a situation.
No, but the decision to delay entry for 2 hours WILL be scrutinized. Our domestic lessons with active shooters coupled with France's more recent experience with Islamic terror would suggest that the decision probably cost lives.
39946
Top of page at NYT article regarding mass shooting at gay night club in Orlando.
I wasn't expecting to see LEO carrying this firearm. Is this a common thing?
WTF? Buddy looks like he is going on a month long field exercise. Nice ruck. Have fun running with that thing.
I can't recall a situation where a Liberal 'wakes up'.... generally they double down.
This. They will call for more gun control, blame the NRA, scoff at the notion of lowly citizens needing guns, etc.
Someone from the FBI must've had enough of the PC bullshit as I don't recall them ever calling it terrorism this early after an incident.
That someone is going to find their career in the tank. Lynch's priorities are clear.
That someone is going to find their career in the tank. Lynch's priorities are clear.
If the 911 call described above in #92 is fact it will be impossible to dodge it.
Hey, maybe he is just celebrating Ramadan? You know, earning points with Alah?
He was on a soup kitchen jihad. There must have been a misunderstanding caused by Islamophobia and/or racism, and he had to defend himself from intolerance.
President to lie at 1:30P EST
Fixed it for ya.
I'm watching the Canadian Grand Prix. Cliff notes on what president shit nuts said when he shuts his trap.
Thanks :-)
I'm watching the Canadian Grand Prix. Cliff notes on what president shit nuts said when he shuts his trap.
Like wise on the GP. But I don't need the Cliff Notes.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 12:44
According to CNN a second Jihadi John was arrested outside the LA Gay Pride Festival with explosives, assault weapons, and camo gear.
According to CNN a second Jihadi John was arrested outside the LA Gay Pride Festival with explosives, assault weapons, and camo gear.
But only white males are capable of being violently homophobic....
Well, I guess they're "white enough" a la Zimmtard....
:rolleyes:
Impossible. Thats all illegal in California
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Man, the left news is beside themselves to play this down...
Chuck Todd just fired a shot at Tump for posting this.
"Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don't want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!"
Todd says it's wrong to accept congrats at a time like this... this is about guns and terror. Again Liberals don;t wake up... they double down...
So Trump is polite to people writing him AND says clearly... don't congratulate me at a time like this... we need to be tough... So Todd turns it completely around to Trump patting himself on the back.
What do you call it when you progress beyond being a media whore? .. .a media slut?
=================================
Breaking - Man arrested with weapons and explosives going to gay pride parade in LA
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html
=========================
Shooter also referenced Boston Bombers
http://www.wcvb.com/news/orlando-shooter-mentioned-boston-bombers-in-911-call/40020872
What do you call it when you progress beyond being a media whore? .. .a media slut?
How about liar?
How about liar?
Propagandist. :(
And where do these creatures get their info and motivation? From an Orlando Mosque. Coincidence?
Gays Must Die Says Speaker At Orlando Mosque
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ
And here is Hillary's Sandy Hook moment.
Of course the news tells me the problem is not muslims, but guns.
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 13:03
According to the news, multiple police officials.
Which news? I haven't seen anything about it.
Synopsis:
Gotta get the guns out of the hands of bad people.
Need to stop assault weapons being available to the public.
Shooter's actions do not represent the views of Muslims.
The M4C Staff can change my name to EuroTranny if he does not touch on at least one of these points.
Hi EuroTranny. :p
The second point you can kind of debate.
Which news? I haven't seen anything about it.
NPR stated it multiple times in the last 30ish minutes.
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 13:11
Hi EuroTranny
Ohshi.
What'd El Presidente say?
Hi EuroTranny
Can't seem to load the Nelson Simpson's meme
Ohshi.
What'd El Presidente say?
Cliffnotes as far as I can remember:
Not much is known, but FBI working with locals.
Act of terror as well as act of hate.
He used an assault rifle and pistol.
We need to make a decision if we want to live in a society where one man can get two guns.
An attack on some Americans is an attack on all Americans.
That's about it.
That imam on earlier this morning chose his words VERY carefully. Of course the "don't rush to judgement" comment and one about "stopping shootings like this". Not one word about this incident not representing the views of muzzies. Tried to walk a fine line but failed just by those first two comments alone. Hell, even the Shitstain-in-Chief said it was an act or terrorism (which was shocking quite frankly).
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 13:17
NPR stated it multiple times in the last 30ish minutes.
I'll check their website and FaceBook page. Local station has apparently decided that playing the regularly scheduled line-up of classical music is more important.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 13:18
I'll check their website and FaceBook page. Local station has apparently decided that playing the regularly scheduled line-up of classical music is more important.
It actually has been all over the news.
...or you could use a fake ID.
...or you could use someone elses ID.
Just like you could do filling out a 4473. It would be a crime though.
I agree that the very best way is to have an checkme.gov just like eVerify. Make it a damn phone app! Dads could check out the guy picking up his daughter for a date in real time on screen in the living room.
The difference between that and this is that the .gov couldn't just flip all the switches one day and make you ineligible for everything without you knowing... and, for the foil-ies among us, they couldn't monitor your account and sort out who you were checking for employment, firearms transactions, curiosity, or dating reasons.
I don't want any more laws than the next guy, but years ago after I got my cwp I couldn't help but wonder why ATF does not piggy back off that for a NFA approval permit or do their own NFA approval permit themselves. Such a permit would pretty much cover the ass of all honest guys. It would allow you to buy NFA items that day, with transfer notifications sent electronically or by mail to ATF. They could run a query bi-monthly, quarterly, or however often they wish. People who become unapproved get flagged and field agents notified. This could streamline NFA and cover the 4473 at the time of purchase.
But that makes too much sense.
FWIW, I have not read the entire thread yet but there is a pic of the MICH helmet on OPD's facebook page. Straight on shot. If I see no pics posted I will post one.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 13:19
Cliffnotes as far as I can remember:
Not much is known, but FBI working with locals.
Act of terror as well as act of hate.
He used an assault rifle and pistol.
We need to make a decision if we want to live in a society where one man can get two guns.
An attack on some Americans is an attack on all Americans.
That's about it.
Hmm. I think that counts enough to keep me out of harms way, although most of the staff really doesn't like me to begin with ;)
Regardless, he sounded so unenthusiastic about that stuff. Did you notice?
"Yeah, Americans must get together because we don't like this. Or something. Idk. Michelle was cuckolding me when the SS interrupted and Im not sure why Im up here. Hate. Guns are bad. Prayers to the victims. K"
This is just sad all around.
People were just wanting to have a good time and this piece of garbage murders them.
It's 2016, no reason any police shouldn't have a compact rifle ready to go.
The people making this about guns are callous and spiteful. This was someone using a pretense of religion to make people afraid to live their life.
The goal is to end up like Europe. No reason for every able bodied adult in this country to not have a CCW, license, good rifle at home capable of 300 m hits, and competent training.
And any who seek to exploit the bodies of the freshly dead for an agenda are irredeemable bastards.
Hmm. I think that counts enough to keep me out of harms way, although most of the staff really doesn't like me to begin with ;)
Regardless, he sounded so unenthusiastic about that stuff. Did you notice?
"Yeah, Americans must get together because we don't like this. Or something. Idk. Michelle was cuckolding me when the SS interrupted and Im not sure why Im up here. Hate. Guns are bad. Prayers to the victims. K"
But he didn't specifically push for gun control, he pushed for a discussion on gun control.
He was either unenthusiastic or just resigned to the fate of talking to the nation every time people go shooting civilians.
Cliffnotes as far as I can remember:
We need to make a decision if we want to live in a society where one man can get two guns.
That's about it.
We made that decision 200+ years ago.
We decided, "Yes."
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 13:26
It actually has been all over the news.
I don't get Florida news, here. The only news I get is what comes to me on FB and over the radio (TV is spotty at best - I use an antenna and half the time the antenna can't pick up half the channels).
In any event, I am now seeing it on NPR's website's "What we know" article.
Per the NPR article, the two folks who have said that the guy pledged himself to al-Baghdadi are feds.
platoonDaddy
06-12-16, 13:27
Muslim KC Star writer blames NRA for terrorist attack in Orlando
Yael T. Abouhalkah @YaelTAbouhalkah
Dear God:
Today I am so sickened by the evilness of the NRA and gun industry. May their leaders be plunged into ever-lasting hell.
Amen
1:35 PM - 12 Jun 2016
But he didn't specifically push for gun control, he pushed for a discussion on gun control.
He was either unenthusiastic or just resigned to the fate of talking to the nation every time people go shooting civilians.
Which isn't his job. If it is connected to a funded, organized terror cell. discussing that would.be his job.
It's a big country and the Office of President has more to do than political commentary.
Fox News is saying Daesh or people claiming Daesh are taking responsibility.
Instead of "discussions on guns" how about saying "These people are gonna die and gonna die bad."
8 years he's had as presidemt and still doesn't know what to do
Which isn't his job. If it is connected to a funded, organized terror cell. discussing that would.be his job.
It's a big country and the Office of President has more to do than political commentary.
Fox News is saying Daesh or people claiming Daesh are taking responsibility.
Instead of "discussions on guns" how about saying "These people are gonna die and gonna die bad."
8 years he's had as presidemt and still doesn't know what to do
And people bitched over us water boarding....cowards
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
That imam on earlier this morning chose his words VERY carefully. Of course the "don't rush to judgement" comment and one about "stopping shootings like this". Not one word about this incident not representing the views of muzzies. Tried to walk a fine line but failed just by those first two comments alone. Hell, even the Shitstain-in-Chief said it was an act or terrorism (which was shocking quite frankly).
Protected species bro. Had it been Joe six pack on the street, no terrorism. :(
Islamic State news agency claimed responsibility for the attack.
Source: heard it from some Senator. You can probably confirm by googling the IS' news agency The Amaq or something.
What's interesting about this event is the fact there was an LEO on detail who did engage. The POS ran into the club a that point to story says. I know post Columbine SOP was to engage an active shooter vs wait 'till the cavalry showed up.
Do we know why the LEO didn't follow and continue the fight? Was he injured? Other? It's a damn shame this didn't end as the TX event did with one old school cop taking out the shooters before they even got 10ft from their car.
Just touching in on what you & Euro were discussing. Most places, like FLETC, teach LEO's to respond asap to a active shooter vs waiting for a group of officers to assemble. This is pretty widely known and easily found online, so do not think I am giving away cutting edge SOP's here. They stress getting on the shooter as fast as possible due to the historical trend of active shooters who either eat a bullet when confronted or give up. This is because most of these types who do these shootings are often beta male coward types.
I personally feel this may need to be re-evaluated soon and here is why; I think we will start to see an increase in perps in these shootings who are not scorned or hurt feeling beta male dudes but hardened or at least mentally determined fighters who believe in a cause. I fear they will eventually take advantage of current LE SOP's in their responses to target the lone or first couple guys on scene. We have molded our response tactics to fit a certain type personality and that will very likely prove fatal against a determined perp.
As far as a lone cop responding with what he had on him.... That is what most are taught to do. That doesn't mean all will as I assure you well over 50% of street cops out there would not go after an active shooter alone. They will not go to a domestic alone or an alarm check alone, much less go into a known gun battle. Regardless of his pay, his responsibilities to the public or lack there of, there are not many 10-8 guys (and I would bet the majority here would fall into this category) who could sit outside that club, hear gunfire and know people are being butchered and not push the fight. I would not fault a cop who got there first and just held a perimeter, if he honestly felt he couldn't go in. I would much rather him do that than go half heartedly and wind up wounded or dead himself, further tieing up more LE resources to save him.
Eurodriver
06-12-16, 13:59
^ That was an excellent, well written post.
I agree, it was.
Even if it defies policy, popo should have something competitive to use; especially in a built up area.
When it's game on, it's game on.
As far as a lone cop responding with what he had on him.... That is what most are taught to do. That doesn't mean all will as I assure you well over 50% of street cops out there would not go after an active shooter alone. They will not go to a domestic alone or an alarm check alone, much less go into a known gun battle. Regardless of his pay, his responsibilities to the public or lack there of, there are not many 10-8 guys (and I would bet the majority here would fall into this category) who could sit outside that club, hear gunfire and know people are being butchered and not push the fight. I would not fault a cop who got there first and just held a perimeter, if he honestly felt he couldn't go in. I would much rather him do that than go half heartedly and wind up wounded or dead himself, further tieing up more LE resources to save him.
But how does that play out if he's off duty working as security?.. .and what if he were from a different jurisdiction?
==========
3:05 Multiple updates from the LEO adn FBI taking place.
Paris and Brussels teaches that hanging back and trying to negotiate may not be an effective strategy in these Islamic terrorist jihad episodes.
Just wondering...How long between the 911 call and the point where SWAT actually went in? How many people died during that period? I saw someone on Fox talking about that but didn't hear the conclusion. He said two hours before they stormed the place?
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 14:26
Paris and Brussels teaches that hanging back and trying to negotiate may not be an effective strategy in these Islamic terrorist jihad episodes.
Just wondering...How long between the 911 call and the point where SWAT actually went in? How many people died during that period? I saw someone on Fox talking about that but didn't hear the conclusion. He said two hours before they stormed the place?
Shooting began at about 0200 and SWAT went in around 0500.
Direct quote from OPD Chief John Mina:
"At approximately 0202 hours this morning, we had an officer working at Pulse nightclub, who responded to shots fired. Our officer engaged in a gun battle with that suspect. That suspect at some point went back inside the club, where more shots were fired. This did turn into a hostage situation. Obviously multiple officers from various agencies responded, SWAT team responded. At approximately 0500 hours this morning, the decision was made to rescue hostages that were in there."
Approximately 50 people were killed - 20 in the initial reports, with the number being revised upward after the police "gained access" to the entire facility.
I predict there will be a lot of "lessons learned" coming out of this response. Unless he racked up 103 casualties before the first on duty officer arrived on scene, something probably bogged down. Its important to MMQB these events not to place blame or undermine LE, but to learn, adapt and improve mindset.
In my mind, the only importance is to change the mindset that the majority of AS are incompetent and will self-terminate upon armed contact. You still need to reinforce your skills and mindset to locate, close with and destroy the threat, but with the understanding that you need to be sharper, tougher and more wiling to destroy them than they are you. Not to disparage anyone on the job, but if you're unwilling to saddle up and ride that ride, then I'd suggest that G4S is currently hiring. :(
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 14:37
My personal opinion on TTP revisions and policy changes is as follows:
Committees will be formed, expert opinions sought, untold sums of money spent on a "solution" when the solution is pretty simple:
Ask the ****ing beat cops what the actual **** they need to combat this shit. While Patrolman Smith may not have a degree from Harvard, he, and others like him, will have a much more valuable opinion regarding solutions, than all the experts you can cut a check to.
This transcends LE/.Mil. This is a recurrent phenomena, that is industry, and profession-neutral.
If I had a dollar for every time I personally witnessed those not "in the trenches" making policy decisions, I'd have some shiny new toys as a result.
/rant
I predict there will be a lot of "lessons learned" coming out of this response. Unless he racked up 103 casualties before the first on duty officer arrived on scene, something probably bogged down. Its important to MMQB these events not to place blame or undermine LE, but to learn, adapt and improve mindset.
In my mind, the only importance is to change the mindset that the majority of AS are incompetent and will self-terminate upon armed contact. You still need to reinforce your skills and mindset to locate, close with and destroy the threat, but with the understanding that you need to be sharper, tougher and more wiling to destroy them than they are you. Not to disparage anyone on the job, but if you're unwilling to saddle up and ride that ride, then I'd suggest that G4S is currently hiring. :(
Apparently the guy had a concealed carry permit and was a registered security guard.
Source?
You ask for the source, I give you the F--B--I.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 14:45
And Hasan was a Major in the USA.
I know the media will attack this angle, but it's absolutely irrelevant.
Apparently the guy had a concealed carry permit and was a registered security guard.
I see no reason why a street officer shouldn't have a brain bucket, plate armor, a carbine with a light and solid 100 yd zero in their vehicle.
Training goes without saying.
And PRACTICE tossing it all on in under a minute. That should be part of in service.
I would even say add a suppressor.
I'm not saying be all tackleberry but have the right gear for the job.
This is going to happen somewhere again. California, Garland, Texas, and the army recruiter shootings were not that long ago.
Ban all the guns you like. If these people are connected, they'll still get what they need.
This isn't going away.
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 14:50
You ask for the source, I give you the F--B--I.
It's not exactly Christmas, though, Hans.
Friend of mine who is a road Sergeant with the Florida State Police says they were told not to ticket any medical examiners as so many from across the state were called in and were rushing to get to the Orlando area
I agree, it was.
Even if it defies policy, popo should have something competitive to use; especially in a built up area.
When it's game on, it's game on.
Thanks and you are 100% correct.
I have been lucky to trained under a few of the best out there. I was lucky to be able to go up to Alliance Ohio PD's range and attend the EAG/Pat Roger's shoot house course with Alliance's SWAT guys. The class I went to was the first one they put on when they built their current shoot house. Alliance is similiar in size to my home town, not too big a town but big enough. Over time, here and there I have heard some people Poo-Poo small(er) Departments like Alliance (or my own home town who has a hell of a SWAT Team commander) that tend to think out of the box. In these type Departments, there is usually a guy or couple guys in the right positions who truely care and have the influence to make things happen. There are a couple guys in Alliance like this. They make damn sure their guys have the most up to date and often "out of the box" type training and kit available.
In most agencies, active shooter training is just another box to check. They will send a training Sgt or Lt to FLETC or some other school for certification and he comes back to pass that on. Most are just punching a clock and could care less. The issue I believe we will see as these events get worse in scope and increase in numbers (and mark my word it is coming) is the stakes are just too high to not have someone at least passionate about the subject in charge of training for it like you see in towns like Alliance. Hell in a active shooter course I attended last year put on by the Feds in my State, I was surprised to see a couple guys from Alliance PD in attendance. Even more so surprised that besides the 2 guys at that class, their PD had sent a bunch of officers down to a previous course. I am using them as a reference mark to what a strong Agency should strive to be.
You think about all the Agencies across the US, there are very few that dedicated. I know a training LT in a big GA LE Agency, he is the same way. Extremely proactive, making sure his guys not only have the best kit they can afford, but most importantly have some of the best training they can afford. The point I am trying to get at is not only are we sitting on a powder keg domestically with the BLM type stuff, the US is literially a mine field of known or unknown potential Islamic fighters who are just waiting to do what happened in Orlando. The guys in LE who are often the most passionate about getting out ahead of this threat are often the ones who get brow-beat by the BLM types for making sure their guys are set both equipment wise and training wise to walk into what one would have going into that night club. Just one more example of damned if you do, damned if you don't. You combine that with the propensity of Agencies to often fill the ranks with low liability cops (who are great at setting up perimeters btw) as well as checking all the necessary EOE boxes.... Honestly in most places we are sitting in a real bad situation capability wise to combat what is surely coming to a mall, church, or club near you.
Just using Firefly as an example in what I see is a damned shame. I can tell by some of your posts and the things you say that you 110% fall into the catagory of being absolutely the type of person who would be first through the door and probably would be the type who should be in charge of making sure everyone else at your Agency is squared away also. That said, good Cops like you are at that point where you are Batman of your juristiction. Most of the world, including your supervisors love to hate you until they need you. As a country we need to get past this, because this perfect storm of society pissing on LE and breaking the spirit of the strong few who take up the job on principle to keep the POS like this in Orlando in check, combined with not calling out the players in this game for what they are is going to eventually break us.
Sorry to get a bit ranty, it just gets on my nerves when I hear over and over about the militarization of LE and then see a picture like the MSA helmet that Copper was wearing with the bullet impact dead center of the head. Only then to see a religious leader of the perp have the nerve to get on tv and question my rights. Imagine the Klan lynching someone and then all major media outlets allowing a Grand Wizzard his 15 mins to blame bull whips and rope for the act.
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 15:07
recorded a while back but reuploaded because its been a warning and what happened in Orlando
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7hvz2zk6Pc
But how does that play out if he's off duty working as security?.. .and what if he were from a different jurisdiction?
==========
3:05 Multiple updates from the LEO adn FBI taking place.
He is still a LEO. In most places he will be signed on at dispatch as working security. Usually with the moonlighting jobs approved by the command (around here at least) the job is run through the Agency. That is also beneficial so that if they have a brawl he is there already with a radio and can inform inbound units of what is up or request a transport of a perp if he contains the situation.
As far as a different jurisdiction, a felony is still a felony.
I witnessed the fleeing of an armed robber in Apex NC when coming back from a long range match at Woody's. I detained the guy after a short chase until Apex PD arrived. I live in SC. They thanked me mucho for it as the dude had been a local problem not nabbed yet. I am not a fool to how things can go wrong (Darren Wilson), but I am also not one to just turn my head. The shame today is we have allowed so many to get to the point where being a good witness is the best option. I agree it is in some aspects, but I personally draw the line at someone threatening violence with a weapon (like the above mentioned robbery) up to active shootings.....
It's not exactly Christmas, though, Hans.
Hahahaha! You DID get the reference.
I predict there will be a lot of "lessons learned" coming out of this response. Unless he racked up 103 casualties before the first on duty officer arrived on scene, something probably bogged down. Its important to MMQB these events not to place blame or undermine LE, but to learn, adapt and improve mindset.
Wasn't some of that active shooter response a lesson that we should have learned back at, say, Columbine?
I predict OPD will come under some close scrutiny for that delay.
Paris and Brussels teaches that hanging back and trying to negotiate may not be an effective strategy in these Islamic terrorist jihad episodes.
Just wondering...How long between the 911 call and the point where SWAT actually went in? How many people died during that period? I saw someone on Fox talking about that but didn't hear the conclusion. He said two hours before they stormed the place?
I should have been more specific about response. I have seen some active shooter training damn near have a LEO running full tilt to gunfire as soon as he exits the car. They need to know slow and methodical as well to avoid barreling into an ambush. That is my biggest beef. The last big training I went to I was told a few things others have ran into over seas that really made me re-think some of the stuff we currently do in a AS situation. Especially post engagement.
Moose-Knuckle
06-12-16, 15:33
So Barry O declared June as Gay Pride month, Hillary just secured the DNC nomination, and the very weekend after we have the deadliest "random mass shooting" on record targeting gay folks perpetrated by a follower of islam no less that had been on watch lists and "interviewed" by the Feds. Oh and an AR-15 was used . . .
Boston, San Bernardino ring a bell????
Gee I can't thing of a better segue for Hillary's gun grab.
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 15:36
The Left Chose Islam Over Gays. Now 100 People Are Dead Or Maimed In Orlando (http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/12/left-chose-islam-gays-now-100-people-killed-maimed-orlando/)
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 15:41
The goal is to end up like Europe. No reason for every able bodied adult in this country to not have a CCW, license, good rifle at home capable of 300 m hits, and competent training.
.
How is that working for France?
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 15:49
Thanks for sharing that. And he's absolutely right.
It's not the "extremists" that out-and-out persecute/kill gays.
recorded a while back but reuploaded because its been a warning and what happened in Orlando
Digital_Damage
06-12-16, 15:59
Facebook has been a awkward this morning... Lefties having meltdowns all over not knowing if they should be defending Gays or the Muslim faith.
A few tried to blame guns but after Obama's speech it has fallen apart for them.
How is that working for France?
Forgive my lazy phrasing.
Their goal is for us to end up like Europe.
Our goal should be to end up like America.
For all the Mother-May-I rigamarole in France, it didn't keep the terrorists from getting guns.
It did, however, keep them out of the hands Jean-Pierre.
The government and system as a whole wants monopoly of violence but, yet, all they do is stand by to stand by and bag and tag dead bodies once the subject has escaped or offed himself.
Doesn't benefit you or I at all. But it does perpetuate fear.
As I type from Chateau de Firefly, I have a 308 multirole rifle in arms reach, a .45 Glock nearby, and a few nice bolt actions.
What am I afraid of?
Nothing.
I imagine others amongst the fraternity of this site are in a similar mode of accoutrement.
But if that were taken away, irrespective of vocation; I would start being concerned.
Because no matter how honest I am, or we are, those that seek to commit murder simply disregard the law.
Just words in a book. That's all to these people.
If they cared, they'd go back to hiring 6 foot tall badasses, give people good gear, and let people sort it out.
But moreover, there would be no utterance of disarmament. Because this subject wasn't targeting armed men. He went after people just wanting to have a good time. People who worked all week, people who were looking forward to blowing off steam, and...this.
And the survivors will be permanently affected. They'll be leery to do anything. And now they don't want them to have arms?!
I've known several victims of violent crime, no choice but to know them, and pretty much all said that buying a firearm was the best therapy because now THEY had a say in what was to happen to them. This was bolstered after taking a shooting class.
The sad reality is that the body politic has an agenda and they can't let people get in the way.
To me, people come first.
Just my thought. I hope I clarified my statement.
Well, post life the terrorist transformed from his heritage to a light skinned American! Nice touch with the green eyes now! How disgusting the media can be. By morning he may be blond haired blue eyed with very fair skin, how sick the distortions can be.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 16:08
Bro, what in the Left Field are you talkin' about?
Well, post life the terrorist transformed from his heritage to a light skinned American! Nice touch with the green eyes now! How disgusting the media can be. By morning he may be blond haired blue eyed with very fair skin, how sick the distortions can be.
Fox News 1531 CST. That was really nice to see "Snow White" in the pics.
Well, "Snow White" may be stretching it, He is getting "Whiter" though.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 16:27
Links?
Fox News 1531 CST. That was really nice to see "Snow White" in the pics.
Well, "Snow White" may be stretching it, He is getting "Whiter" though.
Straight Shooter
06-12-16, 16:33
All you gotta do is get on the web and look...that S.O.B. was dark complected as all hell, now...not so much. Aint seen the green eye yet, but don't doubt it a bit.
No link, but if you have Fox News recorded, you can look at it.
I didn't initially catch it, but I did get 2 calls from the wrong coast. Rewinding back showed the same they described. Waiting back for a response to a few on the other coast.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 16:36
Sounds like the shooter's employer was up to no good:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/orlando-shooter-worked-security-company-which-tranports-illegal-immigrants-deep-insi
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/06/dhs-quietly-moving-releasing-vanloads-illegal-aliens-away-border/
"A security company contracted by the U.S. government is driving the OTMs from the Border Patrol’s Tucson Sector where they were in custody to Phoenix, sources said. The firm is called G4S and claims to be the world’s leading security solutions group with operations in more than 100 countries and 610,000 employees. G4S has more than 50,000 employees in the U.S. and its domestic headquarters is in Jupiter, Florida. Judicial Watch is filing a number of public records requests to get more information involving the arrangement between G4S and the government, specifically the transport of illegal immigrants from the Mexican border to other parts of the country. The photo accompanying this story shows the uniformed G4S guard that transported the OTMs this week from Tucson to Phoenix."
G4S also had a scandal last year where some of their employees were involved in human trafficking.
Great vetting process by G4S.
Also, Chicken Dick was already under suspicion of being a bad actor:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283202-police-shooting-update
The FBI confirmed on Sunday it had interviewed the suspect in the Orlando, Fla., nightclub attack three times before the shooting took place early Sunday morning.
An official said the FBI first became aware of the suspect, Omar Mateen, 29, in 2013 when he made "inflammatory comments to coworkers alleging possible terrorist ties."
In the course of that investigation, Mateen was interviewed twice, but the FBI was unable to verify the substance of his comments.
Good take on it imo.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4937411067001/dr-gorka-stop-calling-orlando-shooting-a-hate-crime-/?#sp=show-clips
Here's link to pictures of the helmet that took a round and saved officer's life.
http://twitter.com/OrlandoPolice/status/742009920808210432/photo/1
sevenhelmet
06-12-16, 17:31
Words. (Post #158)
Shack. One of the best posts I've seen here in a long time.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 17:36
ABC news says it was an "A-R-15"......
"...Pretty much all said that buying a firearm was the best therapy because now THEY had a say in what was to happen to them." (Wisdom fromFirefly, post #138) Said another way---"Free men bear arms".
About a bazillion years ago, as a kid, I got my hands on a copy of one of Jeff Cooper's first books, "Fighting Handguns". Cost all of 75 cents at your local newsstand. Changed my life.
Clusterfark on steroids we have.
http://registration.elections.myflorida.com/CheckVoterStatus
Confirmed what most already knew
So Barry O declared June as Gay Pride month, Hillary just secured the DNC nomination, and the very weekend after we have the deadliest "random mass shooting" on record targeting gay folks perpetrated by a follower of islam no less that had been on watch lists and "interviewed" by the Feds. Oh and an AR-15 was used . . .
Boston, San Bernardino ring a bell????
Gee I can't thing of a better segue for Hillary's gun grab.
Not to add to the conspiracy bullshit, but didn't Aurora happen about this time just before the last presidential election? I am tempted to go down that road, but I am sure there are others with more tin in their skulls who will do it for me.
Off topic somewhat
Was down at the range today after this happened, and there were a couple fudds pushing the "No one should be able to buy those machines guns, they have no purpose." After pointing out it wasn't a machine gun and there is plenty of purpose for an AR15 or other rifles like it for things like hunting, target shooting, protecting liberty, "Well, there is still no need, trying to keep those machines guns is just going end up with everything banned and then we won't be able to own anything and I won't get to have my shotgun." I explained, somewhat sternly, that gun control didn't do shit in Paris, and hey, if there had been some armed patrons perhaps the asshole would have been dead before the cops arrived. My response to that might have pissed off the fudd, because I wasn't exactly kind, but getting that shit from both sides just pisses me off, but then I am a dying breed. A lot of us here are.
So Barry O declared June as Gay Pride month, Hillary just secured the DNC nomination, and the very weekend after we have the deadliest "random mass shooting" on record targeting gay folks perpetrated by a follower of islam no less that had been on watch lists and "interviewed" by the Feds. Oh and an AR-15 was used . . .
Boston, San Bernardino ring a bell????
Gee I can't thing of a better segue for Hillary's gun grab.
Things sure fall into place nicely huh?
WTF? Buddy looks like he is going on a month long field exercise. Nice ruck. Have fun running with that thing.
Dude probably had to park a half mile away from the scene and is rucking in all his equipment to the staging/command area/
What's interesting about this event is the fact there was an LEO on detail who did engage. The POS ran into the club a that point to story says. I know post Columbine SOP was to engage an active shooter vs wait 'till the cavalry showed up.
Do we know why the LEO didn't follow and continue the fight? Was he injured? Other? It's a damn shame this didn't end as the TX event did with one old school cop taking out the shooters before they even got 10ft from their car.
Apparently there were 3:
A uniformed Orlando police officer working at the club off-duty first heard gunshots. Omar Mateen was outside with an AR-15, a handgun and an explosive device. The officer fired at him, police said. Two more officers showed up and opened fire. Mateen fired back, and walked back into Pulse, trapping dozens of people inside.
We now know he went on an unimpeded shooting rampage lasting several minutes:
"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going." Ivory Mcneal was in the club's patio area when he started hearing the shots. "People were running everywhere. Gunshots were going off. People were ducking," Mcneal said.
Lots of questions, not many answers.
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 19:34
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/crime/2016/06/12/who-omar-mateen/85791280/
Co-worker: Omar Mateen homophobic, 'unhinged'
Anthony Westbury, Nicole Rodriguez, Elliot Jones, USA TODAY Network - Florida 7:20 p.m. EDT June 12, 2016
A former Fort Pierce police officer who once worked with 29-year-old Omar Mateen, the assailant in an Orlando nightclub shooting that left at least 50 dead, said he was "unhinged and unstable."
Daniel Gilroy said he worked the 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. shift with G4S Security at the south gate at PGA Village for several months in 2014-15. Mateen took over from him for a 3 to 11 p.m. shift.
Gilroy, a former Fort Pierce police officer, said Mateen frequently made homophobic and racial comments. Gilroy said he complained to his employer several times but it did nothing because he was Muslim. Gilroy quit after he said Mateen began stalking him via multiple text messages — 20 or 30 a day. He also sent Gilroy 13 to 15 phone messages a day, he said.
"I quit because everything he said was toxic," Gilroy said Sunday, "and the company wouldn't do anything. This guy was unhinged and unstable. He talked of killing people."
Gilroy said this shooting didn't come as a surprise to him.
PGA Village resident Eleanora Dorsi, however, recognized Mateen's face as a friendly one who guarded her gated community in western Port St. Lucie.
"Whenever I saw him, he was very polite," Dorsi said Sunday from her summer home in Connecticut. "He was always a gentleman."
Dorsi, who has lived in the community since 2011, estimated that she saw Mateen a dozen times through the years, but he left a big impression on her because of his chivalry, she said.
"He even helped me with the car once, so I can't say he was creepy," she said.
Mateen helped her work the windshield cleaning function in her new car one time, she said.
Dorsi frequently gave Mateen and other guards at PGA Village pizza, cookies and candy for their hard work, she said. The last time she saw Mateen was a year ago, Dorsi said.
"He was always smiling and just seemed like a very nice, positive person," Dorsi said.
It sent chills down Dorsi's spine to imagine the man charged with keeping her and other locals safe carried out the deadliest mass shooting in the nation's history, she said.
"You would never ever think that he would have done anything like this," Dorsi said. "Scary, scary. Very scary. I think everyone feels like that right now," she added. "It hits too close to home."
.Mateen has multiple ties to the Treasure Coast area of Florida.
Mateen, born in New York, lived in an apartment complex in the 2500 block of South 19th Street in Fort Pierce. Law enforcement was at the complex Sunday.
He also received mail at his parents’ home in the 900 block of Southwest Bayshore Boulevard in Port St. Lucie. Law enforcement remained at the home Sunday with his family.
He received degrees in science in 2006 and 2007 from Indian River State College. However, further details about how long he attended the school were unavailable.
He attended his freshamn year of high school at Martin County High School. It's unclear whether he attended MCHS after that.
Mateen married Sitora Yusufiy of Port St. Lucie in 2009, according to court documents. They divorced two years later in 2011, St. Lucie County court records show.
Mateen has no state criminal record, according to Florida Department of Law Enforcement records.
President Obama delivered the remarks after a shooting at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida left more than 100 people dead and wounded.
Imam Muhammad Musri, the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida, urged restraint in the hours and days following the attack in Orlando.
"I want to also caution many of the media from rushing to judgment," he said. "We are mourning. We are sad. We are heartbroken, and it's not really time to...rush to judgment."
The Imam went on to say:
“We condemn the person who did this, whatever ideology he had. No lives should be lost because of anger and hate.”
Musri, who is also president of American Islam, said he does no know what could be done for what seems like one mass shooting after another.
“I condemn all acts of terrorism, especially those done in the name of my faith,” he said. “It’s heartbreaking to see this in my beloved city of Orlando. We’re in mourning.”
Apparently this was all our faults....
http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/obama-says-we-are-to-blame-not-islamic-terrorism-for-orlando-massacre/
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 19:42
If the NRA were smart, and they are not, they would have a program for gays to learn how to shoot and get a CCW. Not saying that gays don' t shoot now, but in the face of direct action like this, getting more people able to defend themselves is far more rational action than calling for banning guns.
By the way, the terrorist beat the crap out of his first wife- which if she had reportd him and gotten a conviction, would have barred him from firearms, correct.
Investigated three times by the FBI.
How any bites at the apple do we need?
If the NRA were smart, and they are not, they would have a program for gays to learn how to shoot and get a CCW.
They do, and get this, you do not even have to be gay to take it.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 19:53
Bro, what in the Left Field are you talkin' about?
This is 2016.
Brainwashed zombies walk among us every day... and they talk nonsense. Everyone is too afraid to slap some sense into them (literally- people need to be slapped) because they worry about being arrested.
The largest spree killing in the history of the United States just happened- and we have folks googling up the shooter's political party affiliation.
Now, apparently, we're searching for the race angle on things.
The partisan hate machine cuts from many angles, and in both directions on each. This is why we're doomed as a society.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 20:02
They do, and get this, you do not even have to be gay to take it.
I think you are missing the fact that there is an opportunity here to directly offer an affirmative defense versus passive 'defense' of disarmament. Our way protects people from one of the Lefits dearest protected classes, tomorrow. The lefts way doesn't protect anyone, ever- as Paris showed us. Unless the NRA is to blame for that one also.
I think you are missing the fact that there is an opportunity here to directly offer an affirmative defense versus passive 'defense' of disarmament. Our way protects people from one of the Lefits dearest protected classes, tomorrow. The lefts way doesn't protect anyone, ever- as Paris showed us. Unless the NRA is to blame for that one also.
That opportunity confronts us every single time something like thus happens. Yet it continues to not sink in. People are stupid. Its as simple as that.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 20:17
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_960w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/06/12/National-Enterprise/Images/Nightclub_Shooting_Florida-03228.jpg&w=1484
This is an interesting photo.
If they created a mousehole, encountered fire, and withdrew from the funnel while shooting into the club (as the bullet holes would indicate), then probably there was some FF going on.
Our way protects people from one of the Lefits dearest protected classes, tomorrow.
Who is "our?"
I know you're pretty sold on the whole left/right, us/them game, but we're all just Americans.
I think we're missing out on an opportunity. For better or worse, people think the NRA is a boy's club of Fudds, gun crazy loners, or disgruntled, bitter vets/popo.
I think there's a way to get away from that stigma and get more people on board without sacrificing the core principles.
The NRA does a lot and offers a lot, and more people should be taking advantage. Beyond mere defense, but also broadening the education of firearms.
There are things that could be done to make it more inclusive to other people so things like this could be avoided.
At its root; the NRA is a Civil Rights group after all.
This is 2016.
Brainwashed zombies walk among us every day... and they talk nonsense. Everyone is too afraid to slap some sense into them (literally- people need to be slapped) because they worry about being arrested.
The largest spree killing in the history of the United States just happened- and we have folks googling up the shooter's political party affiliation.
Now, apparently, we're searching for the race angle on things.
The partisan hate machine cuts from many angles, and in both directions on each. This is why we're doomed as a society.
KEV, are you REALLY that naive? The media HAS been caught retouching photos of dark skinned suspects to make them appear lighter skinned. They don't even have to alter photos to inject bias. All they have to do is selectively choose the image they run with. Take a look at the photos of Mateen below and select the one you'd use? I'm not sure you're aware of this, but we're in a culture war where the hearts and minds of our fellow citizens aren't something to be respected. They're to be counted as prizes by the extreme elements of our society. The tactics used are full on propaganda and group think. You can close your eyes and ears to what's happening around you, but it's not going away. :(
http://www.dreuz.info/wp-content/uploads/Omar-Mateen-copy.jpg
Kev, that's an eerie picture.
No matter how well ine may have trained, it's never enough.
This was a shitshow and I hope there are some hard lessons taken to heart.
I also second the "We're all Americans" sentiment. You don't look at someone freebleeding and ask who he votes for
In all fairness, the subject looks pretty much the same to me in all those selfies.
A SWA male.
He could have had a good life, but chose to be evil.
Hell I'm darker than he is, but with different facial features
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 20:32
Who is "our?"
I know you're pretty sold on the whole left/right, us/them game, but we're all just Americans.
'Our' side is the side that believes in the right of self defense over defenseless dependency on the state for protection.
I would include you in 'our' side, correct? Unless your hatred of me blinds you to the reality of situation.
I think you are awesome man. I really do. That's why I call out your silly BS when you try to bully people here or go off on some odd rant. I want the best version of CommieKEV we can get.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 20:34
KEV, are you REALLY that naive? The media HAS been caught retouching photos of dark skinned suspects to make them appear lighter skinned.
Which one is doctored?
Is your position that white is nicer, and they are trying to make him out as a nice guy?
What is the motivation for that? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, and I'm not the only one...
Could it be that some of you guys are just race-owned and are frothing at the mouth over "dark skinned SOBs," and that no possible order of the photos above would have pleased you?
I think the "culture war" you speak of is between American Patriots and those residents who have been reprogrammed by the partisan hate machine.
I also second the "We're all Americans" sentiment. You don't look at someone freebleeding and ask who he votes for
There are some that would... and that's the world we live in now. Americans have been programmed to spot the differences between themselves and the "other," draw a line between the two, and then rage at the "other."
If the NRA were smart, and they are not, they would have a program for gays to learn how to shoot and get a CCW. Not saying that gays don' t shoot now, but in the face of direct action like this, getting more people able to defend themselves is far more rational action than calling for banning guns.
By the way, the terrorist beat the crap out of his first wife- which if she had reportd him and gotten a conviction, would have barred him from firearms, correct.
Investigated three times by the FBI.
How any bites at the apple do we need?
I teach liberal gay people to shoot all the time. Have you? It doesn't take the NRA. It takes us being evangelical about self defence. We could also start by being more welcoming and not using "gay" as an insult. Next time you see that on a gun board call the person out on it. I confess I used to but it was an everyday pissing match so I quit.
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 20:41
'Our' side is the side that believes in the right of self defense over defenseless dependency on the state for protection.
Right... and you don't think "they" are "us?"
What makes you think that??
Because they weren't packing heat in a nightclub?
Because they were gay?
I'm sure you'd be surprised at the number of gays who think just like "we" do... because "they" are "us."
Gay, straight, doesn't mean a thing. A person with ties to foreign terrorists attacked Americans on U.S. soil. The act was despicable and deserves an immediate response.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 20:49
It does. We are.
And while POTUS was given an opportunity to be a leader, he failed. Again.
I'm so sick of the partisan bullshit/hyper-politicization of EVERYTHING in this country.
Goddamn, dude. Bodies weren't even cold, and you've got politics as usual. ****ing disgusting.
We have, yet again, an epic leadership fail. And not just from POTUS.
This is 2016.
Brainwashed zombies walk among us every day... and they talk nonsense. Everyone is too afraid to slap some sense into them (literally- people need to be slapped) because they worry about being arrested.
The largest spree killing in the history of the United States just happened- and we have folks googling up the shooter's political party affiliation.
Now, apparently, we're searching for the race angle on things.
The partisan hate machine cuts from many angles, and in both directions on each. This is why we're doomed as a society.
Outlander Systems
06-12-16, 20:50
Exactly. It's an act of warfare. Period.
Gay, straight, doesn't mean a thing. A person with ties to foreign terrorists attacked Americans on U.S. soil. The act was despicable and deserves an immediate response.
The tactics used are full on propaganda and group think. You can close your eyes and ears to what's happening around you, but it's not going away. :(
Sadly you are correct. I was just pondering this earlier. How exactly we got here, I'm not real sure. But the enemy lives among us. I would go so far as to say from the POTUS down.
Trump was here the other night.. 'oh yeah, so Obama is go campaigning now when he should be taking care of business' 'well that's ok, that just means he's fair game now, you know Hillary trotted out Bill and we had to talk about him' 'Obama get's in and he will be fair game'
Evereyone knows Obama is not fighting terror in America. Honestly I think he may be promoting it. I mean let's face it, if you are a terrorist you are going to die so there is no punishment and he knows that. So when the day is over he can say anything. Someone in Orlando, it was the woman, Mayor, or something, not sure what she was... but she said 'rest assured if you do these things, we will catch you and punish you' ... ook... so you are going to punish the guy with more holes in him than Swiss cheese. I think she was just mad but I honestly do not believe Obama cares. His demeanor always strikes me as poser, double agent, whatever you want to call it.
Pro black, pro Muslim, pro whatever... but never pro America. If he were pro America AND pro black or pro Muslim or pro Mexican.. .then I would think, ok, let's hear him out..... but I have never ever seen him express any pro America sentiments.
I can't prove it of course but I really feel like America is severely compromised from within right now. It's as though there is a multi-faceted battle to capture America and the traditional historic nature side of things is a minor and somewhat optimistically uninformed player. Or as the saying goes.. don't know what they don't know and it's going to cost them everything.
Which one is doctored?
Is your position that white is nicer, and they are trying to make him out as a nice guy?
What is the motivation for that? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, and I'm not the only one...
Could it be that some of you guys are just race-owned and are frothing at the mouth over "dark skinned SOBs," and that no possible order of the photos above would have pleased you?
I think the "culture war" you speak of is between American Patriots and those residents who have been reprogrammed by the partisan hate machine.
There are some that would... and that's the world we live in now. Americans have been programmed to spot the differences between themselves and the "other," draw a line between the two, and then rage at the "other."
Do I really need to point out the dichotomy of your statements above, or are you being intentionally obtuse?
I'm saying that the media these days has shifted from fourth estate to fifth column. They're no longer satisfied with reporting the news. They wholeheartedly embrace shaping the messages and then injecting themselves into the subject matter. They are not objective, dispassionate reporters of fact anymore. True journalism is a severely endangered species.
What we're saying is that media outlets have been caught pants down in the act of lightening the appearance of suspects in media images, in order to make it appear that someone committing a heinous act was not as dark skinned as they were. This comports with the agenda that white males are the biggest threat to our society, and people of color don't commit crimes at the level or frequency we think. So when it turns out Zimmerman kills a black kid, they make sure to shout from the rooftops that he was a "white" Hispanic, rather than just a Hispanic. You really shouldn't be shocked if after this whole media circus winds down, we discover that some media outlets played with the tone and shading of the perp's photo before publishing it. It absolutely does happen. And no, they won't be making him appear darker skinned.
Look, I'm the most objective guy you'll find. I hate all people equally and focus on the intent and acts, not what color or tribe or race they hail from. It don't matter because free will trumps everything. But to pretend color doesn't matter to the left is just as disingenuous as pretending it doesn't matter to the right. They're both guilty and all that's left to debate is the level of hypocrisy on the part of the perpetrators. :(
Exactly. It's an act of warfare. Period.
WWTCD (What Would Ted Cruz Do)?
Gay, straight, doesn't mean a thing. A person with ties to foreign terrorists attacked Americans on U.S. soil. The act was despicable and deserves an immediate response.
Amen... honestly at this point with the family ties being such as the Boston bombers and this one. I would say if a family member commits an act of terror / mass murder on American soil then their belongings become the property of the State the attack occurs. The belongings are then sold at auction. The family then gets a plane, train, or ship ticket to anywhere in the world. One way. State keeps the money.
Confirmed association with terror groups means mandatory bombing in the sand box as an additional measure.
I'm tired of having my rights potentially infringed upon by in favor of these terrorists by those that have infiltrated our government.
Has been on the FBI "radar" since '13, and only bought the guns a week ago.
Background checks, like the TSA airport checks, are window dressing on a problem that nobody knows how to handle.
We're responsible for our own safety now more than ever.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 21:53
What we're saying is that media outlets have been caught pants down in the act of lightening the appearance of suspects in media images, in order to make it appear that someone committing a heinous act was not as dark skinned as they were.
Thank you for the clarification, and interesting...
So, you think we're being lied to by a vast media conspiracy, who wants to conceal the fact that Darkness is really what's behind all the crime?
I suppose the coming days will tell... if the darker complected photos are censored from the media in favor of the whiter ones (lighting also plays a role).
This will be an interesting experiment!
Wiping the froth away for a moment, do you suppose that there is another race-owned person, just like you, on the opposite side of the spectrum, who would be feeling the same outrage if the photos were released in a different order?
sevenhelmet
06-12-16, 22:04
WWTCD (What Would Ted Cruz Do)?
Filibuster with a Dr. Seuss book while the military works for free? Seriously, what difference would it make?
As others have said, we are at war.
Thank you for the clarification, and interesting...
So, you think we're being lied to by a vast media conspiracy, who wants to conceal the fact that Darkness is really what's behind all the crime?
I suppose the coming days will tell... if the darker complected photos are censored from the media in favor of the whiter ones (lighting also plays a role).
This will be an interesting experiment!
Wiping the froth away for a moment, do you suppose that there is another race-owned person, just like you, on the opposite side of the spectrum, who would be feeling the same outrage if the photos were released in a different order?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2013/07/11/cnn-white-hispanic/
First, who cares if this guy is white, black, blue, or purple. The fact of the matter is that he murdered 50 Americans.
Second, this is not a hate crime.This is terrorism plain and simple.
Terrorism - "The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
Lastly, the way the media and (insert alphabet soup agency name here) are choosing their words and actions stinks to high heaven; anyone can see that. As many red flags as this piece of s*** had against him, he should have been snatched at zero dark thirty a long time ago. Somebody dropped the ball, time to fess up and stop playing smoke and mirrors.
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sevenhelmet
06-12-16, 22:14
Lastly, the way the media and (insert alphabet soup agency name here) stinks to high heaven; anyone can see that. As many red flags as this piece of s*** had against him, he should have been snatched at zero dark thirty a long time ago. Somebody dropped the ball, time to fess up and stop playing smoke and mirrors.
Agree 100%. I would be a large sum of money that so-called "political correctness" played a role in the FBI's decision to drop the investigation into this scum. How about we stop worrying about how unique and beautiful everyone is and start profiling the mother****ing demographic that consistently perpetrates this shit? I'm not saying investigate someone only because they're islamic. I'm saying if the guy you're investigating is islamic, was born in freaking Afghanistan, and has shown ANY association with radicals, don't let him slip off the ****ing radar because you think it was just "minimal contact"! :mad:
I'm also "real sure" the case officer who dropped that particular ball will do the honorable thing and fess up. :rolleyes::mad:
PatrioticDisorder
06-12-16, 22:19
First, who cares if this guy is white, black, blue, or purple. The fact of the matter is that he murdered 50 Americans.
Second, this is not a hate crime.This is terrorism plain and simple.
Terrorism - "The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
Lastly, the way the media and (insert alphabet soup agency name here) stinks to high heaven; anyone can see that. As many red flags as this piece of s*** had against him, he should have been snatched at zero dark thirty a long time ago. Somebody dropped the ball, time to fess up and stop playing smoke and mirrors.
Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk
Kinda hard for FBI to come out and say "hey, we heard about this shitbag making jihadi threats from several credible sources & after interviewing him we determined we had no hard evidence, so out of fear we'd lose our jobs due to political pressure from the Obama administration we couldn't monitor the shitbag because we'd be considered to be profiling him even though we knew he was a potentially serious threat." That is essentially what this boils down to, but the good ole Bamster will get on TV and talk about how it's too easy to get guns and other nonsense without mentioning radical Islam.
sevenhelmet
06-12-16, 22:26
The Darkness is coming...
What does that actually mean? Darkness is right here, right now, every day. You don't have to look that hard. What purpose does it serve to stay "Storm's Coming" like grandpa used to right before he took you behind the woodshed? I'm not deriding you, this chain of events pisses me off too (see above) I'm just wondering what statments like that add to the discussion.
If it's any consolation... the news is rotating those photos. It's not about him being white. The original picture available to them was the one with the skull cap which makes him look especially Muslim. It's not about 'white'... it's about Muslim vs Person.
This is not a "white" issue. Those photos are simply white balance and tempeture differences. Except for the skull cap pic which looks especially Muslim and self serving. that's the twist.. imo.
This was clearly a major attack by the Muslim religion on the gay community using the lessons learned from Paris regarding the nightclub scene. Whitey is not involved in this issue. Nor is any manner of dark skin.
Muslim>>Paris Nightclub Technique>>Gay --- boom.. game over. Major attack on Obama's watch in his backyard towards his constituency. What people don;t see is that while Obama is a Muslim sympathizer... they ( Muslims ) don't really like him. They too ( unlike the gay lefties / Liberals ) see him for the shallow, hollow person he is. Wonder why he looked so glum today? Getting hit from from both sides will do that to you.
Again... the terrorist killer always dies so who will Obama make pay...... no one. It's a perfect set up. He gets rich and simply plays the game. Whomever set this all up, meaning Obama as POTUS, is either incredibly brilliant or incredibly lucky or both.
MountainRaven
06-12-16, 22:28
Hahahaha! You DID get the reference.
Yippee ki-yay, HK. :p
"...Pretty much all said that buying a firearm was the best therapy because now THEY had a say in what was to happen to them." (Wisdom fromFirefly, post #138) Said another way---"Free men bear arms".
About a bazillion years ago, as a kid, I got my hands on a copy of one of Jeff Cooper's first books, "Fighting Handguns". Cost all of 75 cents at your local newsstand. Changed my life.
Clusterfark on steroids we have.
I remember reading about concealed carry laws back in the 90s, when it was starting to take off. The author was from Montana and talked about the process of getting a permit in Montana - up until that time, it was virtually impossible to get a permit. But I decided then and there that I was going to get a permit and carry a handgun. And so I started dressing in clothing that would allow me to carry concealed - in Middle School.
Didn't actually get a handgun until I was 22, but inspired by Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith, I picked a full-size 1911 in 45 Auto. And once I got my permit, I proceeded to carry it concealed where ever I could.
Not to add to the conspiracy bullshit, but didn't Aurora happen about this time just before the last presidential election? I am tempted to go down that road, but I am sure there are others with more tin in their skulls who will do it for me.
Off topic somewhat
Was down at the range today after this happened, and there were a couple fudds pushing the "No one should be able to buy those machines guns, they have no purpose." After pointing out it wasn't a machine gun and there is plenty of purpose for an AR15 or other rifles like it for things like hunting, target shooting, protecting liberty, "Well, there is still no need, trying to keep those machines guns is just going end up with everything banned and then we won't be able to own anything and I won't get to have my shotgun." I explained, somewhat sternly, that gun control didn't do shit in Paris, and hey, if there had been some armed patrons perhaps the asshole would have been dead before the cops arrived. My response to that might have pissed off the fudd, because I wasn't exactly kind, but getting that shit from both sides just pisses me off, but then I am a dying breed. A lot of us here are.
Aurora didn't move the needle. It wasn't until Newtown that the needle moved - but it went nuts. San Bernardino barely moved the needle. It will be interesting to see if the needle moves at all this week.
I do know that when I went out to christen my freshly built A1 middy this afternoon that virtually every bay at the range had at least one AR or AK - most had multiples - and there were a few suppressors out there, too. The only place where I saw nothing but sporting guns was on the clays range - but Sundays are trap days at the range.
Apparently there were 3:
A uniformed Orlando police officer working at the club off-duty first heard gunshots. Omar Mateen was outside with an AR-15, a handgun and an explosive device. The officer fired at him, police said. Two more officers showed up and opened fire. Mateen fired back, and walked back into Pulse, trapping dozens of people inside.
We now know he went on an unimpeded shooting rampage lasting several minutes:
"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going." Ivory Mcneal was in the club's patio area when he started hearing the shots. "People were running everywhere. Gunshots were going off. People were ducking," Mcneal said.
Lots of questions, not many answers.
I keep on reading this.
Went back inside. I'm guessing we don't have a timeline for the whole thing yet, but it seems curious to me that apparently the three officers responded - one of whom much have been on the scene when the shooting began - and engaged the threat. But this was after he'd already been inside the club? Had he started the shooting in the club at that point?
This is 2016.
Brainwashed zombies walk among us every day... and they talk nonsense. Everyone is too afraid to slap some sense into them (literally- people need to be slapped) because they worry about being arrested.
The largest spree killing in the history of the United States just happened- and we have folks googling up the shooter's political party affiliation.
Now, apparently, we're searching for the race angle on things.
The partisan hate machine cuts from many angles, and in both directions on each. This is why we're doomed as a society.
To be fair, I'd bet there were as many lefty-loonies hoping that this was a Christ-loving, pasty-skinned redneck with a, "Trump 2016" sticker on the back of his planet-slaying, coal-rolling, lifted diesel pick up truck.
I have to admit that I, myself, was interested, for fear that it was a Christ-loving, pasty-skinned redneck NRA member. Fortunately, there are righty-loonies out there to find out for me.
(I have a co-worker who is extremely liberal on just about everything - except guns - and we went to the range today not only to christen my Mid-A1 but to christen his new Colt. And he admitted to me as we were picking up targets and ammo that he, too, was glad that it wasn't a white Republican. And neither of us believe that the average Muslim living in America is a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off.)
If it's any consolation... the news is rotating those photos. It's not about him being white. The original picture available to them was the one with the skull cap which makes him look especially Muslim. It's not about 'white'... it's about Muslim vs Person.
This is not a "white" issue. Those photos are simply white balance and tempeture differences. Except for the skull cap pic which looks especially Muslim and self serving. that's the twist.. imo.
This was clearly a major attack by the Muslim religion on the gay community using the lessons learned from Paris regarding the nightclub scene. Whitey is not involved in this issue. Nor is nay manner of dark skin.
Muslim>>Paris Nightclub Technique>>Gay --- boom.. game over. Major attack on Obama's watch in his backyard towards his constituency. What people don;t see is that while Obama is a Muslim sympathizer... they ( Muslims ) don't really like him. They too see him for the shallow, hollow person he is. Wonder why he looked so glum today? Getting hit from from both sides will do that to you.
Again... the terrorist killer always dies so who will Obama make pay...... no one. It's a perfect set up. He gets rich and simply plays the game. Whomever set this all up, meaning Obama as POTUS, is either incredibly brilliant or incredibly lucky or both.
I know exactly who will pay for the RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORIST'S crimes; you and I will. Plain and simple, brother. Terrorism wins that way, they do something and we get our rights stripped away, whether it be privacy, the right to keep and bear arms, or free speech. Fact is that our leadership is too chickenshit to call a duck a duck and face things head on. Welcome to the future, how does that boot taste?
Sent from my LG-H900 using Tapatalk
KalashniKEV
06-12-16, 22:37
What does that actually mean? Darkness is right here, right now, every day.
To clarify, since my post is now gone (would have only given some of you nightmares anyway):
I meant that you are bat shit insane if you are scrutinizing the level of flash in a picture, the effect it has on skin pigmentation, and the order that those pictures appear in the media to prove that either the shooter is a nice, white gentlemen, white people are spree killers, or we are under attack by "dark skinned SOBs."
It's easy for normal people to tell when you've been brainwashed by a race-baiting agenda... crazy people don't know they're crazy though.
Some of you guys need to go splash some cold water and slap yourselves. Just sayin...
ForTehNguyen
06-12-16, 22:38
First, who cares if this guy is white, black, blue, or purple. The fact of the matter is that he murdered 50 Americans.
Second, this is not a hate crime.This is terrorism plain and simple.
Terrorism - "The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
Lastly, the way the media and (insert alphabet soup agency name here) are choosing their words and actions stinks to high heaven; anyone can see that. As many red flags as this piece of s*** had against him, he should have been snatched at zero dark thirty a long time ago. Somebody dropped the ball, time to fess up and stop playing smoke and mirrors.
not with political correctness. If it was a white shooter, all gun owners in this country would be implicated. Since it was a muslim, it was a lone wolf, and dont blame the whole religion! Same reason the former coworker tried to report his ass several times but nothing was done. PC gets people killed.
It will be interesting to see if the needle moves at all this week.
No it won't.. BUT... generally we think of the needle resting to the left post if nothing is happening. But consider this... in most aspects of life, we like the needle upscale somewhere. If you run cars and boats, fun time up the scale a bit. It you are into music you are hanging out near 0. Everything else in life is a needle moving but everyone is happy when it's at an optimal spot.
Guns... nope... we have been conditioned to feel ok when nothing is happening. That's not normal. As someone mentioned above we should be having gay day at the range. Latino day at the range.
It's one thing to know you are ok with the people around you, but that doesn't mean you or them want to hang all the time. Gays like gay stuff. Blacks like to do black stuff. Whites like to do white stuff. Latinos like to do Latino stuff. Cops like to do Cop stuff. That doesn't mean all those can't do Everyone stuff.
The Liberal agenda is to continue a separation of classes and whenever possible keep all of them with their needle on the left peg.
We need to move the needle to a point, and by fuel, such that it is constantly operating at an optimal level such that it can not be readily changed by a single act.
Resting on the left post is death.
Liberals know we rest on the left post. .
not with political correctness. If it was a white shooter, all gun owners in this country would be implicated. Since it was a muslim, it was a lone wolf, and dont blame the whole religion! Same reason the former coworker tried to report his ass several times but nothing was done. PC gets people killed.
Yes... clear as day. It's the stealing of America.
Who is behind this?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clinton - Yes
Obama - Yes
But they are pawns.
WHO IS STEALING AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO KEEPS BREAKING INTO OUR HOME??????????
Someone knows.......... someone in our government knows.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-12-16, 23:19
Who is "our?"
I know you're pretty sold on the whole left/right, us/them game, but we're all just Americans.
Half of Americans think that we should at the very least have vastly restricted gun rights, which is in effect the right to self defense. By our side I mean those people that believe in the having the ability to defend ourselves. That is all I meant by 'our'. Can I sign you up for a free trial subscription to 'our'? ;)
I'm tired of the Progressive mantra about UBC and AWBs when these will not actually have an effect on the large number of suicides and murders in the US. That Progressives don't understand the problem makes their solutions not only ineffective, but also counterproductive since the take resources from things that might actually have an impact.
That in the wake of an attack meant to target a certain section of our population that I would suggest that the NRA reach out to them and give them the ability to defend themselves would be seen as controversial.
Thank you for the clarification, and interesting...
So, you think we're being lied to by a vast media conspiracy, who wants to conceal the fact that Darkness is really what's behind all the crime?
I suppose the coming days will tell... if the darker complected photos are censored from the media in favor of the whiter ones (lighting also plays a role).
This will be an interesting experiment!
Wiping the froth away for a moment, do you suppose that there is another race-owned person, just like you, on the opposite side of the spectrum, who would be feeling the same outrage if the photos were released in a different order?
Can you call it a conspiracy when the ones doing it are not acting on orders, but filtering this subject and others through their own filters? Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?
As for your last sentence, it's complete gibberish to me. Are you frothing at the mouth? What is a "race-owned person" that you're ascribing to me apparently(?) I tried Googling it, but all I came up with was references to slavery. :confused:
Filibuster with a Dr. Seuss book while the military works for free? Seriously, what difference would it make?
As others have said, we are at war.
No, we aren't. We're at "something", but war it most certainly is not. :(
No, we aren't. We're at "something", but war it most certainly is not. :(
We might not be at war, but others are at war with us.
ditto
I do think the left wants this to happen so they can gain control and are willing to the old never let a crisis go to waste and figure they can control the radical folks later
its all about power and control and using one against the others
We might not be at war, but others are at war with us.
Aurora didn't move the needle. It wasn't until Newtown that the needle moved - but it went nuts. San Bernardino barely moved the needle. It will be interesting to see if the needle moves at all this week.
Aurora was ordinary people so doesn't really count. They were all white so nobody really cared beyond the "we need to ban guns" agenda.
Newtown was first graders, everyone obviously went apeshit for obvious reasons. But only two agendas were really important, making sure Lanza wasn't overly demonized due to his having Asperger and of course "we need to ban guns."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/19/health/shooting-autism/index.html
San Bernardino victims were mostly white so again, nobody cares. The main agenda was "Islam not to blame" and "we need to ban guns." Contrast this with the Charleston church shooting which was treated as a far more significant event (even though there were fewer fatalities) where the "personal beliefs" of the attacker were the key issue followed closely by "we need to ban guns."
Orlando will be a very big deal because of the number of victims and the protected class status of the LBGT community. The leftist agenda will be forced to pick a team and I don't think they are going to go with "Team Islam" this time. Of course many won't be able to reconcile their conflict of interest so they will simply go hard with "we need to ban guns."
This is actually the first one that surpasses the old mass murder record of 44 killed and 58 injured set back in 1927.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Everyone is going to try and make this our Hungerford / Dunblane incident. They tried really hard after Sandy Hook, I think with the election cycle coming up this is going to be the issue from the left. Clinton will campaign on the fact that her husband banned these weapons and if she is elected she will seek a permanent reinstatement of the assault weapons ban.
I think the left already took sides
its the white conservative heterosexual male that caused the problem by not embracing the gay agenda which caused the guy to kill the people
after all this has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with NRA and gun people
come on everyone wants common sense gun laws !!!!!
this will turn into a teachable moment on how NOT to attack islam by the gun toting radical conservatives that just want to blame islam or the gays yet the NRA and themselves are the problem nothing else !!!!
this will never be about a side cause islam is untouchable like the alphabet people
this happened its YOUR FAULT
Moose-Knuckle
06-13-16, 03:06
Aurora was ordinary people so doesn't really count. They were all white so nobody really cared beyond the "we need to ban guns" agenda.
Newtown was first graders, everyone obviously went apeshit for obvious reasons. But only two agendas were really important, making sure Lanza wasn't overly demonized due to his having Asperger and of course "we need to ban guns."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/19/health/shooting-autism/index.html
San Bernardino victims were mostly white so again, nobody cares. The main agenda was "Islam not to blame" and "we need to ban guns." Contrast this with the Charleston church shooting which was treated as a far more significant event (even though there were fewer fatalities) where the "personal beliefs" of the attacker were the key issue followed closely by "we need to ban guns."
Orlando will be a very big deal because of the number of victims and the protected class status of the LBGT community. The leftist agenda will be forced to pick a team and I don't think they are going to go with "Team Islam" this time. Of course many won't be able to reconcile their conflict of interest so they will simply go hard with "we need to ban guns."
This is actually the first one that surpasses the old mass murder record of 44 killed and 58 injured set back in 1927.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Everyone is going to try and make this our Hungerford / Dunblane incident. They tried really hard after Sandy Hook, I think with the election cycle coming up this is going to be the issue from the left. Clinton will campaign on the fact that her husband banned these weapons and if she is elected she will seek a permanent reinstatement of the assault weapons ban.
AND . . . once again you said it better than I ever could.
Because it can't be shared enough and the MSM and the White House are silent on it (April 2016). . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ
It's a damn shame this didn't end as the TX event did with one old school cop taking out the shooters before they even got 10ft from their car.
Re : Garland - despite the initial reports this ^^^^ is not what happened in Garland, TX.
Yes there was a uniformed Garland PD officer working off duty security who engaged the shooters with a Glock 21 but that is not the whole story.
The Garland event was a known target and Garland PD SWAT was set up around the event with long guns. Suffice to say the off duty detail officer had significant "help".
If you do a google search for the crime scene photos you'll see at least one of the Garland attackers had soft armor panels which were penetrated by rifle fire.
Moose-Knuckle
06-13-16, 04:29
Orlando gunman tied to radical imam released from prison last year, say law enforcement sources
“It is no coincidence that this happened in Orlando,” said a law enforcement source familiar with Robertson’s history of recruiting terrorists and inciting violence. “Mateen was enrolled in [Robertson’s online] Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary.”
Robertson's school may not have been the only source of Mateen's spiritual guidance. The gunman was at the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman two days before the nightclub attack, according to The Washington Post. That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen's association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014.
As a former U.S. Marine who became the leader known as "Ali Baba” of a notorious New York gang “Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves”, Robertson and his crew robbed more than 10 banks, private homes and post offices at gunpoint, shot three police officers, and attacked one cop after he was injured by a homemade pipe bomb
After he was arrested in 1991 along with most of the other members of the gang, prosecutors cut a deal with Robertson, and let him serve four years in prison before going to work undercover for the FBI between 2004 and 2007 to document terrorists’ plans and networks in Africa, Egypt and the United States.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html
Orlando gunman tied to radical imam released from prison last year, say law enforcement sources
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/orlando-gunman-tied-to-radical-imam-released-from-prison-last-year-say-law-enforcement-sources.html
I'll say it again, somebody, if not many people, knew about this guy. Seems as if there were multiple opportunities and circumstances that could have led to this guy's arrest be prior to commuting this act of terrorism. Piss poor performance across the board and sadly, American lives were lost because of it. This goes to show you that no matter how many anti terrorism agencies or u unconstitutional tools we have at our disposal, negligence still gets people killed. But yeah, more laws should fix that problem I guess.
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Outlander Systems
06-13-16, 05:30
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/gay-rights/img/map.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/
Dark orange = Homosexuality punishable by death
Light orange = Homosexuality illegal
Instead of politicizing an act of warfare, perhaps we should revisit who we consider our "friends."
I'll say it again, somebody, if not many people, knew about this guy. Seems as if there were multiple opportunities and circumstances that could have led to this guy's arrest be prior to commuting this act of terrorism.
We had several opportunities to convert OBL into worm food prior to 9/11 and several times after, and didn't follow through. That should tell you something, and it aint good.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160613/add7a14c3f76a533f7b825558e3a95b7.jpg
Re : Garland - despite the initial reports this ^^^^ is not what happened in Garland, TX.
Yes there was a uniformed Garland PD officer working off duty security who engaged the shooters with a Glock 21 but that is not the whole story.
The Garland event was a known target and Garland PD SWAT was set up around the event with long guns. Suffice to say the off duty detail officer had significant "help".
If you do a google search for the crime scene photos you'll see at least one of the Garland attackers had soft armor panels which were penetrated by rifle fire.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/06/austin-cop-sure-shot-stopped-crazed-gunman.html
I think Mr. Brink was referring to this incident. Not Garland.
The_War_Wagon
06-13-16, 06:48
Why is Amerika doomed under Hitlery? Because Der Kommissar Obamassar has TOO thoroughly greased the skids... :mad:
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/mohammedan-fudgetard_zpswrfdarrh.png
Re : Garland - despite the initial reports this ^^^^ is not what happened in Garland, TX.
Yes there was a uniformed Garland PD officer working off duty security who engaged the shooters with a Glock 21 but that is not the whole story.
The Garland event was a known target and Garland PD SWAT was set up around the event with long guns. Suffice to say the off duty detail officer had significant "help".
If you do a google search for the crime scene photos you'll see at least one of the Garland attackers had soft armor panels which were penetrated by rifle fire.
I have not seen a full accurate account of that event, but whether he engaged them hard and fast to put them on the defensive and tac team took them down, or he took them down = mission success. Most accounts I read still say he alone shot at least one, if not both. Is there a good source for the full accurate story?
It appears there was not one, but three LEOs who engaged the shooter before he entered the club and it became a standoff/hostage situation:
"Sunday, 2:02 a.m. ET: Shooting erupts at Pulse, a gay nightclub in the heart of Orlando, as some 320 people enjoy the club’s “Latin flavor” event.
An officer working extra duty in full uniform at the club responds.He and two officers nearby open fire on the shooter, a gunbattle ensues.
The shooter goes inside the club, a hostage situation develops."
I'm surprised they were unable to at least keep him busy or pinned some place 'till the cavalry arrived. I'm assuming they did not have access to a patrol rifle, which could have made all the difference in this event.
"A tense standoff follows. Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on to the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."
As he didn't used explosives apparently, 50 dead and 50+ by firearm. That takes time and how many reloads? My understanding is a true hostage situation where people are not being killed, control the area, wait for cav to arrive, etc. If it's an active shooter (and they don't get much more active then that) press the fight and engage to pin the shooter in some location if possible, injure/kill him, etc 'till the cav can show.
During the three hour standoff he had to be literally shooting people continuously. Assuming every bullet struck it's target (which no doubt is not the case) that's 100+ rnds fired.
I'm not an LEO, and I have never been in a gun battle, so I'm not in a position to say they should have done X vs Y, but it seems on the surface SOP for an active shooter was not followed and I will be interested to see the full timeline, building lay out etc once they do an investigation. Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't and I don't envy them one damn bit here. Had they gone in guns blazing and killed a few of the club goers, they would be criticized for that no doubt, even if it saved many more lives.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a change in SOP over this event and more cops have access to a patrol rifle.
More training with said patrol rifles too much to ask no doubt...
Source:
http://fox6now.com/2016/06/12/orlando-mass-shooting-a-timeline-of-events-and-what-we-know/
Averageman
06-13-16, 08:07
And where do these creatures get their info and motivation? From an Orlando Mosque. Coincidence?
Gays Must Die Says Speaker At Orlando Mosque
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ
So Will can find this stuff and the FBI cannot?
If that video is correct, this guy came in from Iraq to give this speech. I'm just guessing this wouldn't be too far from allowing Goebbels in to New York to speak to the Bund right before WWII.
We're being gutted and we aren't taking even the basic actions to prevent it.
Outlander Systems
06-13-16, 08:24
The FBI was aware of the shooter.
Whether through top-down political influence, or a general lack of evidence, home slice slipped through the cracks.
We still have a legal framework in place for prosecuting criminals, and, at least as of June 2016, being a thought-criminal doesn't land one in jail in a Constitutional Republic.
The fact of the matter is that non-state, as well as state actors, are waging war against the citizens of the United States, and abusing our religious tolerance as a means to prosecute said war.
Using this attack as political fodder is an obscenity to the victims, and while, I am heavily biased to the "gun rights" issue, the Left immediately went to domestic politics mode, which I personally find disgusting.
Further proving her failure as a leader, like the current POTUS, Madame Clinton has denounced this as a "hate crime."
It was an act of war. Period. As was the shooting in San Bernadino.
The sooner we can collectively separate that from politics, the sooner we can actually address the issue at play.
So Will can find this stuff and the FBI cannot?
If that video is correct, this guy came in from Iraq to give this speech. I'm just guessing this wouldn't be too far from allowing Goebbels in to New York to speak to the Bund right before WWII.
We're being gutted and we aren't taking even the basic actions to prevent it.
Kinda hard for FBI to come out and say "hey, we heard about this shitbag making jihadi threats from several credible sources & after interviewing him we determined we had no hard evidence, so out of fear we'd lose our jobs due to political pressure from the Obama administration we couldn't monitor the shitbag because we'd be considered to be profiling him even though we knew he was a potentially serious threat." That is essentially what this boils down to, but the good ole Bamster will get on TV and talk about how it's too easy to get guns and other nonsense without mentioning radical Islam.
I get that some in the FBI admin may not be as ethical as we like, but for the most part, agents on the ground are a different matter. How many FBI agents would we have to have to watch everyone who made such statements?
Fact is that these things are gonna happen in today's world. I'm not saying that to be cavalier, it is just the way things shake out in today's world. WE should take a silent moment every day to reflect on those who have paid the price and then drive on as close to normal as we can manage, otherwise the assholes win.
It's now being reported, and confirmed per Fox, the PODS who committed this act made a trip to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2013. He was interviewed in 2013 and 2014 by the FBI. Anger inducing for sure. He was a US citizen and until he commits a crime there isn't much we can do.
I'm seeing calls on one side for gun bans, the other side for more intelligence (read: domestic surveillance). No one in a position of power is talking about not trying to pass laws that violate the rights of the still living. As was once said, "my rights trump your dead."
Pink Pistols, the pro 2A org for the gay community statement on the event:
“This is exactly the kind of heinous act that justifies our existence. At such a time of tragedy, let us not reach for the low-hanging fruit of blaming the killer’s guns. Let us stay focused on the fact that someone hated gay people so much they were ready to kill or injure so many. A human being did this. The human being’s tools are unimportant when compared to the bleakness of that person’s soul. I say again, GUNS did not do this. A human being did this, a dead human being. Our job now is not to demonize the man’s tools, but to condemn his acts and work to prevent such acts in the future.”
http://www.pinkpistols.org/2016/06/12/pink-pistols-saddened-by-attack-on-orlando-club/
Yippee ki-yay, HK. :p
I remember reading about concealed carry laws back in the 90s, when it was starting to take off. The author was from Montana and talked about the process of getting a permit in Montana - up until that time, it was virtually impossible to get a permit. But I decided then and there that I was going to get a permit and carry a handgun. And so I started dressing in clothing that would allow me to carry concealed - in Middle School.
Didn't actually get a handgun until I was 22, but inspired by Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith, I picked a full-size 1911 in 45 Auto. And once I got my permit, I proceeded to carry it concealed where ever I could.
Aurora didn't move the needle. It wasn't until Newtown that the needle moved - but it went nuts. San Bernardino barely moved the needle. It will be interesting to see if the needle moves at all this week.
I do know that when I went out to christen my freshly built A1 middy this afternoon that virtually every bay at the range had at least one AR or AK - most had multiples - and there were a few suppressors out there, too. The only place where I saw nothing but sporting guns was on the clays range - but Sundays are trap days at the range.
I keep on reading this.
Went back inside. I'm guessing we don't have a timeline for the whole thing yet, but it seems curious to me that apparently the three officers responded - one of whom much have been on the scene when the shooting began - and engaged the threat. But this was after he'd already been inside the club? Had he started the shooting in the club at that point?
To be fair, I'd bet there were as many lefty-loonies hoping that this was a Christ-loving, pasty-skinned redneck with a, "Trump 2016" sticker on the back of his planet-slaying, coal-rolling, lifted diesel pick up truck.
I have to admit that I, myself, was interested, for fear that it was a Christ-loving, pasty-skinned redneck NRA member. Fortunately, there are righty-loonies out there to find out for me.
(I have a co-worker who is extremely liberal on just about everything - except guns - and we went to the range today not only to christen my Mid-A1 but to christen his new Colt. And he admitted to me as we were picking up targets and ammo that he, too, was glad that it wasn't a white Republican. And neither of us believe that the average Muslim living in America is a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off.)
Time bombs they are, although perhaps not in the literal sense. Demographically, politically, legally and culturally though, they are. Imposing Sharia is not just done with violence. It's done with influence, majorities, money, laws, cultural norms a and various "non-violent" means.
I know exactly who will pay for the RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORIST'S crimes; you and I will. Plain and simple, brother. Terrorism wins that way, they do something and we get our rights stripped away, whether it be privacy, the right to keep and bear arms, or free speech. Fact is that our leadership is too chickenshit to call a duck a duck and face things head on. Welcome to the future, how does that boot taste?
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Sad but true, at least as far as this admin and PC climate goes. This can change.
To clarify, since my post is now gone (would have only given some of you nightmares anyway):
I meant that you are bat shit insane if you are scrutinizing the level of flash in a picture, the effect it has on skin pigmentation, and the order that those pictures appear in the media to prove that either the shooter is a nice, white gentlemen, white people are spree killers, or we are under attack by "dark skinned SOBs."
It's easy for normal people to tell when you've been brainwashed by a race-baiting agenda... crazy people don't know they're crazy though.
Some of you guys need to go splash some cold water and slap yourselves. Just sayin...
Islam is not a race, and it's pretty obvious how the media applies double standards to white and non-white criminals. Given how hard the media tries and edits audio and video (like in the Zimmerman case) it isn't that crazy to scrutinize the media's stories for elements of outright fraudulence.
Aurora was ordinary people so doesn't really count. They were all white so nobody really cared beyond the "we need to ban guns" agenda.
Newtown was first graders, everyone obviously went apeshit for obvious reasons. But only two agendas were really important, making sure Lanza wasn't overly demonized due to his having Asperger and of course "we need to ban guns."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/19/health/shooting-autism/index.html
San Bernardino victims were mostly white so again, nobody cares. The main agenda was "Islam not to blame" and "we need to ban guns." Contrast this with the Charleston church shooting which was treated as a far more significant event (even though there were fewer fatalities) where the "personal beliefs" of the attacker were the key issue followed closely by "we need to ban guns."
Orlando will be a very big deal because of the number of victims and the protected class status of the LBGT community. The leftist agenda will be forced to pick a team and I don't think they are going to go with "Team Islam" this time. Of course many won't be able to reconcile their conflict of interest so they will simply go hard with "we need to ban guns."
This is actually the first one that surpasses the old mass murder record of 44 killed and 58 injured set back in 1927.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
Everyone is going to try and make this our Hungerford / Dunblane incident. They tried really hard after Sandy Hook, I think with the election cycle coming up this is going to be the issue from the left. Clinton will campaign on the fact that her husband banned these weapons and if she is elected she will seek a permanent reinstatement of the assault weapons ban.
True. Amazingly they will simultaneously try to go to bat for Islam while pretending to be on the side of gays.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/gay-rights/img/map.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/
Dark orange = Homosexuality punishable by death
Light orange = Homosexuality illegal
Instead of politicizing an act of warfare, perhaps we should revisit who we consider our "friends."
Aaaw, come on, that map is just plain racist.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-13-16, 09:35
Why is it that 'Hate speech' is made to involve everything from defending someone from having to bake a cake to calling for the murder of a group of people? These people are making pure terroristic threats. What is so hard to go after these people? Isn't that conspiracy to commit murder when you have a meeting wit this as the topic?
ETA:
In Orlando the death:Injury ratio was 50:50. In the Aurora shooting, with the pretty much the same guns, was 12 killed 70 wounded (15:85). In San Bernidino, it was 14 killed and 22 wounded (39:61). I would offer that the increased death rate, outside of some of the victims being shot by LEOs as they returned fire, was due to the delay. If they had acted more quickly, could they have saved between 11-35 lives?
The death to injury rate is what jumped out at me. Is this that McDonalds CA shooting all over again?
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-13-16, 09:36
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/gay-rights/img/map.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/
Dark orange = Homosexuality punishable by death
Light orange = Homosexuality illegal
Instead of politicizing an act of warfare, perhaps we should revisit who we consider our "friends."
Nobody is gay in Greenland?
Outlander Systems
06-13-16, 09:44
Greenland has no policies on the books, one way, or another, regarding the issue.
Nobody is gay in Greenland?
Crow Hunter
06-13-16, 09:46
Pink Pistols, the pro 2A org for the gay community statement on the event:
“This is exactly the kind of heinous act that justifies our existence. At such a time of tragedy, let us not reach for the low-hanging fruit of blaming the killer’s guns. Let us stay focused on the fact that someone hated gay people so much they were ready to kill or injure so many. A human being did this. The human being’s tools are unimportant when compared to the bleakness of that person’s soul. I say again, GUNS did not do this. A human being did this, a dead human being. Our job now is not to demonize the man’s tools, but to condemn his acts and work to prevent such acts in the future.”
http://www.pinkpistols.org/2016/06/12/pink-pistols-saddened-by-attack-on-orlando-club/
They understand it.
This should be the mantra that everyone involved should be working with.
I commend them.
Outlander Systems
06-13-16, 09:48
It's the mature response. It's, dare I say, the "common sense" approach to the problem.
They understand it.
This should be the mantra that everyone involved should be working with.
I commend them.
brickboy240
06-13-16, 10:01
So would now be a good time to ramp up gun/ammo/mag buying habits?
I tend to think so.
If they were negotiating with him for 3 hours I'm guessing he wasn't killing anyone yet. Could it be that many of the victims were killed in the crossfire?
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If they were negotiating with him for 3 hours I'm guessing he wasn't killing anyone yet. Could it be that many of the victims were killed in the crossfire?
Good Q for which we don't have an answer, but from the fact patterns we currently have, something does not quite add up, at least for me. If he was not killing people for the 3 hours, and someone decided to make entry because they felt it was the only option, he was able to shoot 100+ people in the time they began the assault to when they capped him?
Moose-Knuckle
06-13-16, 10:36
The chain of events are foggy still at this point, will be interesting when ever the final chain of events are released. Most nightclubs of a CCTV system too. The shooter supposedly had a suicide vest which is what called the tac team to pause entry into the restroom where he held up with hostages.
Several news sources have posted the Tweets and other social media messages of people from the club, multiple witnesses reported there were two shooters. Lot of confusion in a dark noisy place with multiple casualties.
One thing I haven't seen here yet is that particular evening club Pulse was hosting a "Latino Night". Also, this particular weekend is observed in major cities for pride parades / celebrations.
One thing I haven't seen here yet is that particular evening club Pulse was hosting a "Latino Night". Also, this particular weekend is observed in major cities for pride parades / celebrations.
Quote from coworker. Daniel Gilroy. "Mr. Mateen had talked often about killing people and had voiced hatred for gays, blacks, women, and Jews"
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titsonritz
06-13-16, 10:55
Nobody is gay in Greenland?
It's a gray issue. :lol:
I think the timeline will be super foggy pretty much for ever unless we get lucky and find a good set of CCTV feeds form the area and inside the place.
I doubt that he killed all those people during he stand off without anyone hearing a thing and making entry sooner, suicide vest or no. At the initial reports they stated that the off duty guy was reacting to shots fired. So does that mean that the first guy in scene showed up as the shooter was exiting after he did the damage and maybe going to a secondary location or making his escape. Went back in cause he was engaged and had his exit route blocked. Or maybe he did most of the damage, got bored and decided it was time for the media frenzy.
Watching CNN right now. The FBI is flipping the script and saying that this is a mental health issue. Basically saying that there is a problem with existing gun laws and how did he get his hands on a rifle. What.....in the literal f*** is happening?
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It appears there was not one, but three LEOs who engaged the shooter before he entered the club and it became a standoff/hostage situation:
"Sunday, 2:02 a.m. ET: Shooting erupts at Pulse, a gay nightclub in the heart of Orlando, as some 320 people enjoy the club’s “Latin flavor” event.
An officer working extra duty in full uniform at the club responds.He and two officers nearby open fire on the shooter, a gunbattle ensues.
The shooter goes inside the club, a hostage situation develops."
I'm surprised they were unable to at least keep him busy or pinned some place 'till the cavalry arrived. I'm assuming they did not have access to a patrol rifle, which could have made all the difference in this event.
"A tense standoff follows. Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on to the scene and make sure they had enough personnel."
As he didn't used explosives apparently, 50 dead and 50+ by firearm. That takes time and how many reloads? My understanding is a true hostage situation where people are not being killed, control the area, wait for cav to arrive, etc. If it's an active shooter (and they don't get much more active then that) press the fight and engage to pin the shooter in some location if possible, injure/kill him, etc 'till the cav can show.
During the three hour standoff he had to be literally shooting people continuously. Assuming every bullet struck it's target (which no doubt is not the case) that's 100+ rnds fired.
I'm not an LEO, and I have never been in a gun battle, so I'm not in a position to say they should have done X vs Y, but it seems on the surface SOP for an active shooter was not followed and I will be interested to see the full timeline, building lay out etc once they do an investigation. Police are damned if they do and damned if they don't and I don't envy them one damn bit here. Had they gone in guns blazing and killed a few of the club goers, they would be criticized for that no doubt, even if it saved many more lives.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a change in SOP over this event and more cops have access to a patrol rifle.
More training with said patrol rifles too much to ask no doubt...
Source:
http://fox6now.com/2016/06/12/orlando-mass-shooting-a-timeline-of-events-and-what-we-know/
I'm loathe to MMQB LE on this without all the details, particularly with the fog of battle during and immediately after the event. But, Orlando PD is going to have to explain exactly how it went from an AS to an hostage situation, and who made that call. Right now I'm concerned as to whether it ever went from AS to hostage? The mother of one deceased victim released texts he made to her that night, explaining what was happening and where he was, with pleas to her to relate that information to law enforcement. He died after the last text was sent, which was 37 minutes after it began. 37 minutes is an eternity in an AS scenario, particularly with LE on the scene from the moment it started.
I hope Orlando PD has some good explanations to rebut these doubts. If not, it calls into question everything we've trained since Columbine. :confused:
Moose-Knuckle
06-13-16, 12:11
Watching CNN right now. The FBI is flipping the script and saying that this is a mental health issue. Basically saying that there is a problem with existing gun laws and how did he get his hands on a rifle. What.....in the literal f*** is happening?
The muslim terrorist was a registered Democrat, licensed security guard, passed FBI NICS background check to purchase firearms. The FBI interviewed him twice, he was a student of the radical cleric who was the personal body guard of Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, the mastermind of the first attack on the WTC. They are pushing guns and mental health because of their boss Obama and the fact they let this attack happen same with San Bernardino and Boston. They knew about all these guys.
The security company this 02 thief was employed by holds contracts for DHS, DOE, and provides security for nuclear sites. Gee I wonder why this jihadi took a job with them . . .
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