View Full Version : AR'S AND TAX STAMP
Would a tax stamp requirement prevent a general ban on AR's? NOTE that this question is for discussion only. It's not one of my suggestions, and I'm neither liberal, progressive, gay or Muslim.
In the long run? No. They want guns out of your hands, it would only be a step towards the end goal. Unless we are getting some major ****ing concessions in return I wouldn't even consider a compromise on UBCs. Which is kind of the funny thing really, the left wants to talk compromise but will cry like a bitch when they don't get their way and kick and scream when they are rebutted.
Novel idea, how bout we enforce the laws already on the books and instead of trying to legislate every damn thing develop some goddamn common sense and survival instinct while losing this PC bullshit and start calling a spade a spade.
Not yelling at you OP, just annoyed with the entire mad rush this country and humanity as a whole seems to have lately seeing who can beat who to the bottom of the food chain.
"They want guns out of your hands, it would only be a step towards the end goal"
^^^^This^^^^
I'm not registering or turning in any-fvcking-thing to anyone. Period. Fineswine floated the NFA idea after Sandy Hook. They can all eat shit and die. Oh, and I don't give a damn saying it either. Terror watchlist here I come.......
Eurodriver
06-15-16, 20:19
Would a tax stamp requirement prevent a general ban on AR's? NOTE that this question is for discussion only. It's not one of my suggestions, and I'm neither liberal, progressive, gay or Muslim.
Many on the left argue that the reason there have been zero crimes (or maybe one? I think a psycho LEO used one in a murder) with legally owned machine guns that it is evidence the process works.
Few on the right have a counter argument.
I would say it has a chance.
Just today I heard on the radio discussion of NFA and tax stamps in response to the violence of prohibition era organized crime and Bonnie & Clyde types. The guest, whom many of you probably know of as a gun ban advocate, was Tom Diaz. Diaz did not come out and directly say he suggests expanding the NFA, but he does talk about the 1994 AWB and why it failed. It is clear that Diaz and his type are well aware of why the 1994 ban was not successful; I'm sure the gun control lobby are better prepared for introducing a much tougher AWB soon.
From NPR: http://www.npr.org/2016/06/15/482206221/gun-control-advocate-recalls-motivation-for-1994-assault-weapons-ban
If you click on the All Things Considered link, you can find two gun control clips. I looked for written transcripts but all I found were the audio clips.
some stuff about Diaz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Diaz
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/tim-graham/2012/12/23/nprs-gross-plays-tee-ball-gun-grabber-compares-gun-lobby-terrorists
Thinking that giving an inch will make them stop is how we ended up here.
Many on the left argue that the reason there have been zero crimes (or maybe one? I think a psycho LEO used one in a murder) with legally owned machine guns that it is evidence the process works.
Few on the right have a counter argument.
I would say it has a chance.
What percentage would be of legally owned machines guns used in crimes then? Less than 1% I would guess. Practically speaking none.
Now, what percentage of legally owned ARs, AKs, FALs, and their kin are used in crimes? Probably under 1%, so again practically speaking none.
While I resent the NFA, nobody going through the trouble of getting stuff like this is going to do stupid stuff with it.
And I think that one shitstick cop that used a full auto weapon was using a dept weapon. I think it was that guy that shot up a party because that one girl had rejected him or somesuch.
While I resent the NFA, nobody going through the trouble of getting stuff like this is going to do stupid stuff with it.
And I think that one shitstick cop that used a full auto weapon was using a dept weapon. I think it was that guy that shot up a party because that one girl had rejected him or somesuch.
While obviously not to the same degree as NFA, few criminals are going out and legally purchasing weapons to begin with.
Straight Shooter
06-15-16, 20:58
I'm not registering or turning in any-fvcking-thing to anyone. Period. Fineswine floated the NFA idea after Sandy Hook. They can all eat shit and die. Oh, and I don't give a damn saying it either. Terror watchlist here I come.......
Dang brother- have you been overhearing me ME talking lately? Your quoting word for word! Registration is THE reason I wont/don't do NFA, period.
While obviously not to the same degree as NFA, few criminals are going out and legally purchasing weapons to begin with.
Very true. I've yet to take a weapon off a piece of shit that wasn't stolen. The one that made me want to choke a bitch was an original Ithaca 1911. It had been allowed to rust and hearing shitstick say "dat Glock aint mine, I wuz jest holdin it" just....just.....AAARRGGH
What percentage would be of legally owned machines guns used in crimes then? Less than 1% I would guess. Practically speaking none.
Now, what percentage of legally owned ARs, AKs, FALs, and their kin are used in crimes? Probably under 1%, so again practically speaking none.
^^^ This! There are millions of responsible US citizens that own an AR or two that have never hurt anyone. The .005% that get one and do harm does not make a valid case against the AR15.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
06-15-16, 21:06
Thinking that giving an inch will make them stop is how we ended up here.
I'm right here with you. New laws are not what is needed. A brain change for everyone is, mentally and spiritually. A realization that the criminals ALREADY have these guns, and that giving up ours will do nothing but empower them is needed. A new self reliance coupled with a renewed sense of self preservation is what is needed.
SomeOtherGuy
06-15-16, 22:29
Don't even think about giving one single inch.
Someone delete this thread so it's mere existence doesn't proffer some sort potential solution in the minds of stupid people.
Yes, I understand the thread was well intended.
There is Zero compromising on shall not be infringed.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Everything jpmuscle said. Do it now.
This is the same stupid solution that was raised after Sandy Hook.
Registering machine guns didn't prevent the North Hollywood shootout, where criminals simply made illegal machine guns, the Clinton domestic ban didn't do anything to change crime and criminal use of firearms trying to control criminals by regulating "objects" doesn't work.
About the only thing you can do is turn law abiding citizens into criminals for non compliance.
brushy bill
06-16-16, 00:05
Nevermind
Moose-Knuckle
06-16-16, 03:43
About the only thing you can do is turn law abiding citizens into criminals for non compliance.
Bingo . . .
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.” ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
As for me . . .
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7429/27629570051_58ed05832c_b.jpg
I'm the op. If there were a tax stamp on AR's, it still would not guarantee production and possibility of purchase of this product. A stamp on any firearm or related product does not protect it from being banned. Also the stamp might stigmatize AR's because some would say that it was necessary to restrict an "evil" weapon.
We need to fight the coming legislation with contributions to our gun lobby.
Some are calling for more extensive background checks. I'm not sure what this might include since the Big FBI Computer already lists felons. There are levels of misdemeanors, and I suspect it will be proposed that some of these be added as restrictions. Privacy laws protect many health issues, and I don't see them being relaxed.
I'm reading about watch lists and prohibiting those on one from buying guns. If these lists are secret, then I doubt if they will be a criterion for purchase. I suspect that if too many Muslims were on a watch list, then some would protest. I've been on a couple shit lists but never a watch list.
Forum members gave thoughtful insight to the original question. Thank you.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-16-16, 08:31
Someone delete this thread so it's mere existence doesn't proffer some sort potential solution in the minds of stupid people.
Yes, I understand the thread was well intended.
There is Zero compromising on shall not be infringed.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
This..........................
JackFanToM
06-16-16, 10:34
This is pointless, as A.) there are already laws in place that are either not enforced, or unenforceable (I'm pretty sure murder is against the law in every state), and B.) until people get it through their thick skulls that safety is a fantasy that is told to small children, you cannot control insanity and murder. The very nature of those 2 things lends themselves to being uncontrollable. Until we have psychics like the dumb movie "minority report" we are stuck with murder and insanity, best adjust and learn to be observant and defend yourself.
I'm not registering or turning in any-fvcking-thing to anyone. Period. Fineswine floated the NFA idea after Sandy Hook. They can all eat shit and die. Oh, and I don't give a damn saying it either. Terror watchlist here I come.......
That's where I am at. I have posted this before; we are entering a period similar to Prohibition, except it's firearms that will be the focus. My grandparents and great grandparents avoided that whole issue by making their own booze. My wife's family in Louisiana were bootleggers big time. It seems our gun activities will be moving underground.
Which is kind of the funny thing really, the left wants to talk compromise but will cry like a bitch when they don't get their way and kick and scream when they are rebutted.
The quickest way to shut up a lefty talking compromise is to ask what we get in return. They think compromise is between where we are now and where they want to be, when the reality is compromise is between where they want to be and where we want to be, namely GTFO of my business and go away....
Complete disarmament. We all now that is the goal. Where will the line in the sand be drawn? Who will be standing there?
Eurodriver
06-16-16, 13:06
Complete disarmament. We all now that is the goal. Where will the line in the sand be drawn? Who will be standing there?
Psychopaths.
Probably with "child pornography" and "histories of mental illness" that the media reports on as well.
No one wants to support someone with child pornography on their PC - even though that can be something as simple as bathtime photos of your children. (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/03/ariz-couple-sues-walmart-over-kids-bath-photos/)
Sure as shit won't be anyone on M4C. (http://boardreader.com/thread/Oregon_militia_takes_over_federal_buildi_sgn67X3tpr.html)
crusader377
06-16-16, 13:07
I don't think law abiding gun owners should compromise anything. Every time one of these terrible events happen the Left supported by their cuckservative allies always use the same narrative that scary looking weapons are the problem and that American's need to surrender our rights to be safe.
Besides that jihadist who committed that horrible crime the other reason why Orlando happened is that government dropped the ball. Let's look at all the red flags in this case that was ignored.
1) The FBI investigated him not once, not twice, but three times. Despite these investigations, there is no evidence that the FBI shared any of this with local law enforcement or any other organization.
2) The jihadist worked at a major security contractor who holds multiple contracts to the DHS. During the jihadists employment he made numerous references to co-workers that he wanted to kill gays, blacks, expressed admiration to various terrorist groups and expressed other jihadist views. These co-workers reported this to their supervisors but because the jihadist is a muslim, they have special snowflake status and can't be fired or reported to authorities.
3) Our jihadist shooter took two lengthy trips to Saudi Arabia (on a low end security guards salary) yet again nothing was raised.
4) The jihadist shooter's father was a big public Taliban supporter yet again no one bother investigating it.
In addition to lax investigations, our political elites particularly on the left want to import hundreds of thousands of Muslims from the Middle East with no vetting per year some of which are most certainly terrorists.
Knowing all this, the narrative that the political and media elites are putting out is only if law abiding American citizens were disarmed all this will be better and there will be no more mass shooters.
Outlander Systems
06-16-16, 13:10
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/cia-director-warns-islamic-state-militants-are-coming-smuggled-refugees
CIA Director John Brennan spoke before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday where he is expected to warn US lawmakers that Islamic State militants are training and preparing to deploy operatives for further attacks on the West and will rely more on guerrilla-style tactics to compensate for their territorial losses.
Per his prepared remarks before the Committee, Brennan said that ISIS has been working to build an apparatus to direct and inspire attacks against its foreign enemies, as in the recent attacks in Paris and Brussels. "ISIL has a large cadre of Western fighters who could potentially serve as operatives for attacks in the West."
Most importantly, he said the Islamic State is working to smuggle them into countries, perhaps among refugee flows or through legitimate means of travel.
Oh yeah. We need to be disarmed.
:suicide:
As for me . . .
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7429/27629570051_58ed05832c_b.jpg
That pretty much sizes it up for me....
That pretty much sizes it up for me....
Same. Just undocumented refugees needing a good home.
Nothing more.
Same. Just undocumented refugees needing a good home.
Nothing more.
The biggest concern for me right now are my SBRs. I wonder how they would handle those?
The biggest concern for me right now are my SBRs. I wonder how they would handle those?
Good question. Technically they'd be Ex Post Facto or "grandfathered", but he who makes the law, breaks the law
Outlander Systems
06-16-16, 17:06
You could be just as equally concerned with a 4473 audit.
You got dis, brah.
The biggest concern for me right now are my SBRs. I wonder how they would handle those?
You could be just as equally concerned with a 4473 audit.
You got dis, brah.
If all 4473's were collected, and boxed up, I imagine a warehouse like the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Even if they were run through optical scanners, the manpower required to follow up on all of those would be prohibitive. Progressive evil is generational. I envision cutting off the flow of future purchases now so that the pipeline shuts down. Your grandchildren will be the ones paying for what happens now. What a family has in it's possession now will be critical for the future.
I just recently heard sage advice that makes me feel pretty dumb.
"With all that's going on, if you didn't have it yesterday, you won't have it tomorrow".
ColtSeavers
06-16-16, 17:25
Sundown at Coffin Rockby Raymond K. Paden
The old man walked slowly through the dry, fallen leaves of autumn, his practiced eye automatically choosing the bare and stony places in the trail for his feet. There was scarcely a sound as he passed, though his left knee was stiff with scar tissue. He grunted occasionally as the tight sinews pulled. Damn chainsaw, he thought.
Behind him, the boy shuffled along, trying to imitate his grandfather, but unable to mimic the silent motion that the old man had learned during countless winter days upon this wooded mountain in pursuit of game. He's fifteen years old, the old man thought. Plenty old enough to be learning. But that was another time, another America. His mind drifted, and he saw himself, a fifteen-year-old boy following in the footsteps of his own grandfather, clutching a twelve gauge in his trembling hands as they tracked a wounded whitetail.
The leg was hurting worse now, and he slowed his pace a bit. Plenty of time. It should have been my own son here with me now, the old man thought sadly. But Jason had no interest, no understanding. He cared for nothing but pounding on the keys of that damned computer terminal. He knew nothing about the woods, or where food came from...or freedom. And that's my fault, isn't it?
The old man stopped and held up his hand, motioning for the boy to look. In the small clearing ahead, the deer stood motionless, watching them. It was a scraggly buck, underfed and sickly, but the boy's eyes lit up with excitement. It had been many years since they had seen even a single whitetail here on the mountain. After the hunting had stopped, the population had exploded. The deer had eaten the mountain almost bare until erosion had become a serious problem in some places. That following winter, three starving does had wandered into the old man's yard, trying to eat the bark off of his pecan trees, and he had wished the "animal rights" fanatics could have been there then. It was against the law, but old man knew a higher law, and he took an axe into the yard and killed the starving beasts. They did not have the strength to run.
The buck finally turned and loped away, and they continued down the trail to the river. When they came to the "Big Oak," the old man turned and pushed through the heavy brush beside the trail and the boy followed, wordlessly. The old man knew that Thomas was curious about their leaving the trail, but the boy had learned to move silently (well, almost) and that meant no talking. When they came to "Coffin Rock," the old man sat down upon it and motioned for the boy to join him.
"You see this rock, shaped like a casket?" the old man asked. "Yes sir." The old man smiled. The boy was respectful and polite. He loved the outdoors, too. Everything a man could ask in a grandson ....or a son.
"I want you to remember this place, and what I'm about to tell you. A lot of it isn't going to make any sense to you, but it's important and one day you'll understand it well enough. The old man paused. Now that he was here, he didn't really know where to start.
"Before you were born," he began at last, "this country was different. I've told you about hunting, about how everybody who obeyed the law could own guns. A man could speak out, anywhere, without worrying about whether he'd get back home or not. School was different, too. A man could send his kids to a church school, or a private school, or even teach them at home. But even in the public schools, they didn't spend all their time trying to brainwash you like they do at yours now." The old man paused, and was silent for many minutes. The boy was still, watching a chipmunk scavenging beside a fallen tree below them.
"Things don't ever happen all at once, boy. They just sort of sneak up on you. Sure, we knew guns were important; we just didn't think it would ever happen in America. But we had to do something about crime, they said. It was a crisis. Everything was a crisis! It was a drug crisis, or a terrorism crisis, or street crime, or gang crime. Even a 'health care' crisis was an excuse to take away a little more of our rights." The old man turned to look at his grandson.
"They ever let you read a thing called the Constitution down there at your school?" The boy solemnly shook his head. "Well, the Fourth Amendment's still in there. It says there won't be any unreasonable searches and seizures. It says you're safe in your own home." The old man shrugged. "That had to go. It was a crisis! They could kick your door open any time, day or night, and come in with guns blazing if they thought you had drugs ...or later, guns. Oh, at first it was just registration -- to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals! But that didn't work, of course, and then later when they wanted to take 'em they knew where to look. They banned 'assault rifles', and then 'sniper rifles', and 'Saturday night specials.' Everything you saw on the TV or in the movies was against us. God knows the news people were! And the schools were teaching our kids that nobody needed guns anymore. We tried to take a stand, but we felt like the whole face of our country had changed and we were left outside."
"Me and a friend of mine, when we saw what was happening, we came and built a secret place up here on the mountain. A place where we could put our guns until we needed them. We figured some day Americans would remember what it was like to be free, and what kind of price we had to pay for that freedom. So we hid our guns instead of losing them."
"One fellow I knew disagreed. He said we ought to use our guns now and stand up to the government. Said that the colonists had fought for their freedom when the British tried to disarm them at Lexington and Concord. Well, he and a lot of others died in what your history books call the 'Tax Revolt of 1998,' but son, it wasn't the revolt that caused the repeal of the Second Amendment like your history book says. The Second Amendment was already gone long before they ever repealed it. The rest of us thought we were doing the right thing by waiting. I hope to God we were right."
"You see, Thomas. It isn't government that makes a man free. In the end, governments always do just the opposite. They gobble up freedom like hungry pigs. You have to have laws to keep the worst in men under control, but at the same time the people have to have guns, too, in order to keep the government itself under control. In our country, the people were supposed to be the final authority of the law, but that was a long time ago. Once the guns were gone, there was no reason for those who run the government to give a damn about laws and constitutional rights and such. They just did what they pleased and anyone who spoke out...well, I'm getting ahead of myself."
"It took a long time to collect up all the millions of firearms that were in private hands. The government created a whole new agency to see to it. There were rewards for turning your friends in, too. Drug dealers and murderers were set free after two or three years in prison, but possession of a gun would get you mandatory life behind bars with no parole.
"I don't know how they found out about me, probably knew I'd been a hunter all those years, or maybe somebody turned me in. They picked me up on suspicion and took me down to the federal building."
"Son, those guys did everything they could think of to me. Kept me locked up in this little room for hours, no food, no water. They kept coming in, asking me where the guns were. 'What guns?' I said. Whenever I'd doze off, they'd come crashing in, yelling and hollering. I got to where I didn't know which end was up. I'd say I wanted my lawyer and they'd laugh. 'Lawyers are for criminals', they said. 'You'll get a lawyer after we get the guns.' What's so funny is, I know they thought they were doing the right thing. They were fighting crime!"
"When I got home I found Ruth sitting in the middle of the living room floor, crying her eyes out. The house was a shambles. While I was down there, they'd come out and took our house apart. Didn't need a search warrant, they said. National emergency! Gun crisis! Your grandma tried to call our preacher and they ripped the phone off the wall. Told her that they'd go easy on me if she just told them where I kept my guns." The old man laughed. "She told them to go to hell." He stared into the distance for a moment as his laughter faded.
"They wouldn't tell her about me, where I was or anything, that whole time. She said that she'd thought I was dead. She never got over that day, and she died the next December."
"They've been watching me ever since, off and on. I guess there's not much for them to do anymore, now that all the guns are gone. Plenty of time to watch one foolish old man." He paused. Beside him, the boy stared at the stone beneath his feet.
"Anyway, I figure that, one day, America will come to her senses. Our men will need those guns and they'll be ready. We cleaned them and sealed them up good; they'll last for years. Maybe it won't be in your lifetime, Thomas. Maybe one day you'll be sitting here with your son or grandson. Tell him about me, boy. Tell him about the way I said America used to be." The old man stood, his bad leg shaking unsteadily beneath him.
"You see the way this stone points? You follow that line one hundred feet down the hill and you'll find a big round rock. It looks like it's buried solid, but one man with a good prybar can lift it, and there's a concrete tunnel right under there that goes back into the hill."
The old man stood, watching as the sun eased toward the ridge, coloring the sky and the world red. Below them, the river still splashed among the stones, as it had for a million years. It's still going, the old man thought. There'll be someone left to carry on for me when I'm gone. It was harder to walk back. He felt old and purposeless now, and it would be easier, he knew, to give in to that aching heaviness in his left lung that had begun to trouble him more and more. Damn cigarettes, he thought. His leg hurt, and the boy silently came up beside him and supported him as they started down the last mile toward the house. How quiet he walks, the old man thought. He's learned well.
It was almost dark when the boy walked in. His father looked up from his paper. "Did you and your granddad have a nice walk?"
"Yes," the boy answered, opening the refrigerator. "You can call Agent Goodwin tomorrow. Gramps finally showed me where it is."
https://www.firearmsandliberty.com/sundown.html
Outlander Systems
06-16-16, 17:27
Absolutely.
One upon a time I worked in document archival, and database retrieval for gooberment.
With sufficient funding, the process could be very streamlined. Coupled with low-hanging fruit through massive Surveillance dragnets, it wouldn't be beyond my imagination that it could turn into a rodeo with a quickness, with enough political will.
The scenario you suggested, I fear, may be the best case scenario if things continue on.
Hillary + SCOTUS + Administering the FLEAs = Lots of folks needing to verify where they stand on oaths taken.
If all 4473's were collected, and boxed up, I imagine a warehouse like the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Even if they were run through optical scanners, the manpower required to follow up on all of those would be prohibitive. Progressive evil is generational. I envision cutting off the flow of future purchases now so that the pipeline shuts down. Your grandchildren will be the ones paying for what happens now. What a family has in it's possession now will be critical for the future.
Outlander Systems
06-16-16, 17:28
Don't worry, homie. If SHTF, I've got several sets of Adidas tracksuits stockpiled at the Outlander Ranch.
P.S. Hope you like Ramen!
I just recently heard sage advice that makes me feel pretty dumb.
"With all that's going on, if you didn't have it yesterday, you won't have it tomorrow".
Moose-Knuckle
06-16-16, 17:54
We have a member here who no longer posts that got a knock on his door one day from an BATFE Agent with photocopies of 4473's. In connection with the an FFL dealer being one that Holder's Fast & Furious program purchased guns from.
Also, if retailers can data mine your online habits and plaster your personal email, social media, etc. with their obnoxious advertisements then rest assured if you have ever used a CC or PayPal to purchase firearms, ammo, etc. online your on a list somewhere. If you have ever had an account on a firearms forum your on a list somewhere. If you have ever "Liked", subscribed, or followed a firearms related channel on YouTube, FB page, Instagram, etc. your on a list somewhere.
Outlander Systems
06-16-16, 18:05
I personally witnessed a situation at a store directly related to F&F that I'll spare the details of.
Long story short, at the time it made absolutely no sense. Through hindsight, it makes PERFECT sense.
We have a member here who no longer posts that got a knock on his door one day from an BATFE Agent with photocopies of 4473's. In connection with the an FFL dealer being one that Holder's Fast & Furious program purchased guns from.
Also, if retailers can data mine your online habits and plaster your personal email, social media, etc. with their obnoxious advertisements then rest assured if you have ever used a CC or PayPal to purchase firearms, ammo, etc. online your on a list somewhere. If you have ever had an account on a firearms forum your on a list somewhere. If you have ever "Liked", subscribed, or followed a firearms related channel on YouTube, FB page, Instagram, etc. your on a list somewhere.
The biggest concern for me right now are my SBRs. I wonder how they would handle those?
They KNOW you have the SBR's and you can't deny having them or off to the pokey you go; can't say "I sold them all at the last few gun shows because I certainly wouldn't want to be in violation of Der Fuhrer's edict". However, with non-SBR Evil Assault Weapons you can at least have some "deniability" and say that last line with a straight face. They might not believe you but 90% of those they'd question would be saying the same damn thing! Of course if you say you don't have them anymore don't be stupid enough to have something found if/when they come with the warrant. Discretion is the better part of valor and all that.......
They KNOW you have the SBR's and you can't deny having them or off to the pokey you go; can't say "I sold them all at the last few gun shows because I certainly wouldn't want to be in violation of Der Fuhrer's edict". However, with non-SBR Evil Assault Weapons you can at least have some "deniability" and say that last line with a straight face. They might not believe you but 90% of those they'd question would be saying the same damn thing! Of course if you say you don't have them anymore don't be stupid enough to have something found if/when they come with the warrant. Discretion is the better part of valor and all that.......
When the new period of firearms "Prohibition" hits, the first thing to go are places like this forum. Everyone will lay low and hope and pray for better times to come. In the meantime, we'll setup private organizations to buy and sell weapons, parts, ammo; an underground co-op and gun economy. Secret knock on the door and hidden rooms. You'll buy and sell by taking the back roads at night to meet your buyer or seller. And you'll always be on the lookout for the G-Men. Sound far fetched? Maybe not......
Eurodriver
06-16-16, 19:48
They KNOW you have the SBR's and you can't deny having them or off to the pokey you go; can't say "I sold them all at the last few gun shows because I certainly wouldn't want to be in violation of Der Fuhrer's edict". However, with non-SBR Evil Assault Weapons you can at least have some "deniability" and say that last line with a straight face. They might not believe you but 90% of those they'd question would be saying the same damn thing! Of course if you say you don't have them anymore don't be stupid enough to have something found if/when they come with the warrant. Discretion is the better part of valor and all that.......
You can have an SBR stolen or lost. As far as I know you're under no obligation to report them being lost or stolen, either.
Of course, as you said, if they got a warrant and searched your place you'd be toast but who would be dumb enough to do that? If, on the other hand, they arrested you for not turning in your SBR...yet they were unable to prove you still had it...well, at that point, it's your fault for letting them arrest you in the first place.
When the new period of firearms "Prohibition" hits, the first thing to go are places like this forum. Everyone will lay low and hope and pray for better times to come. In the meantime, we'll setup private organizations to buy and sell weapons, parts, ammo; an underground co-op and gun economy. Secret knock on the door and hidden rooms. You'll buy and sell by taking the back roads at night to meet your buyer or seller. And you'll always be on the lookout for the G-Men. Sound far fetched? Maybe not......
It happens in a lot of countries as we speak... Having grown up in Eastern Europe, I can attest to how well you can procure contraband items if you know the right people and right secret hand shakes. How do you think kids got fed in the old cuntry. Sure as shit wasnt by standing in lines.
When the new period of firearms "Prohibition" hits, the first thing to go are places like this forum. Everyone will lay low and hope and pray for better times to come. In the meantime, we'll setup private organizations to buy and sell weapons, parts, ammo; an underground co-op and gun economy. Secret knock on the door and hidden rooms. You'll buy and sell by taking the back roads at night to meet your buyer or seller. And you'll always be on the lookout for the G-Men. Sound far fetched? Maybe not......
No, not far-fetched at all in the bizzaro world we live in. I would go as far as to say that more resources would be expended (surveillance, drones, wiretapping, etc.) on finding contraband guns and their owners than real freaking terrorists. Would not surprise me at all, because at that point you'd be a "national security threat". Hell, Jeh Johnson said the other day that assault weapons are a homeland security issue.
You can have an SBR stolen or lost. As far as I know you're under no obligation to report them being lost or stolen, either.
Of course, as you said, if they got a warrant and searched your place you'd be toast but who would be dumb enough to do that? If, on the other hand, they arrested you for not turning in your SBR...yet they were unable to prove you still had it...well, at that point, it's your fault for letting them arrest you in the first place.
You sure about that?
Eurodriver
06-16-16, 22:13
You sure about that?
No.
13.5.2 NFA requirements. When any registered firearm is stolen or lost, the person losing possession
must, immediately upon discovery of the theft or loss, make a written report to ATF, specifically the
NFA Branch, showing the following: (1) name and address of the person in whose name the firearm is
registered; (2) kind of firearm; (3) serial number; (4) model; (5) caliber; (6) manufacturer; (7) date and
place of theft or loss; and (8) a complete statement of the facts and circumstances surrounding the theft
or loss.
27 CFR 479.141
I just lost an SBR tonight. I'll have to report it.
They KNOW you have the SBR's and you can't deny having them or off to the pokey you go; can't say "I sold them all at the last few gun shows because I certainly wouldn't want to be in violation of Der Fuhrer's edict". However, with non-SBR Evil Assault Weapons you can at least have some "deniability" and say that last line with a straight face. They might not believe you but 90% of those they'd question would be saying the same damn thing! Of course if you say you don't have them anymore don't be stupid enough to have something found if/when they come with the warrant. Discretion is the better part of valor and all that.......
If you decide to no longer use an AR lower as an SBR, you are not required to notify the ATF.
Therefore, it is perfectly legal to sell said lower outside of the realm of the NFA.
Sometimes you hit a big pot hole and a SBR flies out the bed. Sometimes a SBR slips off the side of the boat and goes in the lake. Sometimes you wonder what asshole came up with the term "short-barreled rifle" because "carbine" didn't sound scary enough.
brushy bill
06-17-16, 00:42
If, on the other hand, they arrested you for not turning in your SBR...yet they were unable to prove you still had it...well, at that point, it's your fault for letting them arrest you in the first place.
Exactly
If you decide to no longer use an AR lower as an SBR, you are not required to notify the ATF.
Therefore, it is perfectly legal to sell said lower outside of the realm of the NFA.
I don't know. The lower is the part engraved with my trust info, and it's serial number is recorded on the form. Even if I took the 11.5 or the 10.3 uppers and sold them, put them away, etc., I still have the lower sans upper. I could put a 16 inch upper on it and does that automatically remove it from SBR status? No matter, it's still a registered lower in a higher profile database.
I don't know. The lower is the part engraved with my trust info, and it's serial number is recorded on the form. Even if I took the 11.5 or the 10.3 uppers and sold them, put them away, etc., I still have the lower sans upper. I could put a 16 inch upper on it and does that automatically remove it from SBR status? No matter, it's still a registered lower in a higher profile database.
It's only an SBR when an SBR barrel is on it.
You can take off the SBR upper, and sell the lower as a non-NFA item no problem.
I'm not giving an inch on a single ****ing thing! They can eat a bag of dicks for all I care! When was the last time any of us complained about the rights that the left considered sacred and wanted to chip away at? Yet, they constantly attack the rights we care most about.
They have their rights expanded and we have ours taken away and bashed on constantly. It needs to start going the other way from here on out! They want more rights for gays to marry, pot heads to burn up, trans genders to use what ever potty they want. Well, we want NFA restrictions removed, open carry everywhere and the ban states to allow legal citizens to exercise their 2nd Ammendment rights!
My second Ammendment rights are infringed upon far too much as it is and they can simply **** off until they come to the table with "real" compromise!
When the new period of firearms "Prohibition" hits, the first thing to go are places like this forum. Everyone will lay low and hope and pray for better times to come. In the meantime, we'll setup private organizations to buy and sell weapons, parts, ammo; an underground co-op and gun economy. Secret knock on the door and hidden rooms. You'll buy and sell by taking the back roads at night to meet your buyer or seller. And you'll always be on the lookout for the G-Men. Sound far fetched? Maybe not......
Yes, lie low... or... there are 90 million gun owners with upwards of 300 million guns. Even 1% of that would make a formidable force. How many no-knock warrants served in the middle of the night before the people say 'enough'? Let's say there's a 'compromise' and all AR15s are banned out of existence - so the next a-hole uses a scoped bolt action rifle to perpetrate mass murder, is anyone naïve enough to think the PTB aren't going to come after such 'sniper rifles' as a result? Thinking about the story about the grandfather with the hidden stash - what was he saving it for? Seems to me that the opportunity to do something with all that stuff was long past.
Would a tax stamp requirement prevent a general ban on AR's? NOTE that this question is for discussion only. It's not one of my suggestions, and I'm neither liberal, progressive, gay or Muslim.
I'm sure they'd love that.......you get to pay them $200 to register your guns. That's a win/win for them.
I'm not giving an inch on a single ****ing thing! They can eat a bag of dicks for all I care! When was the last time any of us complained about the rights that the left considered sacred and wanted to chip away at? Yet, they constantly attack the rights we care most about.
They have their rights expanded and we have ours taken away and bashed on constantly. It needs to start going the other way from here on out! They want more rights for gays to marry, pot heads to burn up, trans genders to use what ever potty they want. Well, we want NFA restrictions removed, open carry everywhere and the ban states to allow legal citizens to exercise their 2nd Ammendment rights!
My second Ammendment rights are infringed upon far too much as it is and they can simply **** off until they come to the table with "real" compromise!
This. Every *shudder* "common sense" compromise has netted us nothing.
Women got the vote, gays can marry, folks are getting weed cards, and it is entirely possible to get a HS diploma literally for just showing up.
So why can I not buy a full auto MP5 at cost over the counter?
Hey, I'll even agree to legal prostitution and letting dudes marry toasters, but yeah that MP5. I liked the MP5.
So ultimately we're not compromising, we're capitulating
Back home in Mississippi, I heard an old man say that when people started shitting inside the house and cooking outside, everything went to hell.
The libtard's idea of compromise is this way:
You have a sammich. Libtard comes up and says "Gimme your sammich". You say "Get bent, hell no." Libtard says "Okay, just gimme half." You, like an idiot, say "Well, okay" and give him half. What has just happened here? You HAD a whole sammich, now you have half of one. What exactly did YOU get??????????? Not a g-damn thing!
JackFanToM
06-18-16, 17:44
We exchanged compromise for concession. Hell we used to have the person who came in 2nd place in presidential elections as the Vice President...imagine that.
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