View Full Version : DPMS AP4 or is there something better?
I am looking for a M4 Style Carbine. I had a Bushmaster but it had a heavy barrel and made it too heavy. I want something light enough that I wouldn't mind carry it through the thick bush of North Carolina.
I like the DPMS cause of the custom features on it. Titanium nitride bolt carrier, Adjustable trigger, cryogenic accurizing which I not sure if it is a gimmick or what, Chrome lined bore and chamber. What I want to know is there another company that makes a more robust M4 that I can get these features on. Opinions please.
I been reading since this post and found LMT. Their site has Upper and Lowers but not complete rifles. I would think they could build what I want couldn't they?
billybronco
08-29-08, 14:31
DPMS is the absolute dead LAST rifle I'd ever buy......well, maybe not...i MIGHT get one over an Olympic.
buy crap, buy twice. spend the extra money. it'll pay off....
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
there are a number of good options for a m4 profile set up.
i picked up a charles daly d4mLE upper the other day added a lmt bolt carrier group and have been one happy camper.
as far as titanium bolt carriers go that is a waste of $$$ and i also give mixed marks to the cryo treatments. adjustable triggers--i give a 50/50--ok if you want it. but on my ar-types i am running the single stage stock triggers and i find they do very well. not worth the hassle factor for me. invest in a good bolt carrier group like a BCM or LMT.
the last DPMS rifles that i have messed with were pretty good shooters. a lot of people on this board will knock them down though.
there are lots of things to buy for an AR--but the AR is a fairly proven platform to start with. if your not careful and don't know what you want to start with you can end up spending way more than needed on things that arn't helpful at all.
have you considered building what you want ??? it may cost a little more but it can eliminate buying and swapping stuff out---
Welcome!
You wanna talk with Grant at G&R Tactical (http://www.gandrtactical.com/). He can fix you up with a complete LMT and modifiy it to your desires. I suggest calling him or posting to his dealer forum here as I have found that the best way to get in touch with him. You may also want to consider a BCM (Bravo Company) upper if he still has any available. Either the LMT or the BCM will be WAY ahead of the DPMS. He can also hook you up with a Colt 6920 (civy 16" version of the M4). All of these would be wonderful rifles and capable of handling anything you can throw at them.
See also "the Chart" (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642&highlight=chart). It will help educate you on the differences between rifles produced by different manufacturers.
There is alot to read here, so be patient and read. Especially the tacked threads like the chart one. Then ask away. People here can be blunt. And their answers may not be what you want to hear. But they are honest, and genuinely want to see you get good gear, and the best value for your money.
Good luck, and enjoy your new rifle.
-RD62
I can handle people being blunt just as long as they are Honest. Looks like everything I have read LMT would be the way to go for me. I talked to my good friend bgoode a little bit ago and he was telling about his LMT he just got. He told me about it before but I forget who made it. The one he has is in my price range also.
Since I live in NC that has A LOT of thick brush I don't need alot of attachments. The less I have on it the less that can be ripped off by veins and briars. LOL We were talking about what barrel length I should get also. 14.5" with pinned flash or 16". I have shots around here that can go out to 500-600 yards easy. Even with a 16" barrel I wouldn't try to make 500 or 600 yard shot unless I needed to.
The average shot would be around 200-300 yards. Yes I plan to hunt with it and carry when ever I am in the woods. I don't dog hunt either. I either still hunt or track. I know most people would tell me to get a hunting rifle if I was going to hunt. I say where is the fun in that. :D
TheActivePatriot
08-29-08, 16:53
If maneuverability in brush is a concern, get the 14.5"w/ pinned flash suppressor. Short and light is where it's at, the extra inch and a half of barrel isn't going to make a noticeable difference in performance under field conditions.
I will talk to Grant about that. I hope I can get the rifle before hunting season goes out this year. So pics of a LMT in the field taking Deer would be cool.
Glad to see you here buddy! You can some good info here. Grant will hook you up with what you need. I am WAY happy with my LMT and to be honest would love a closet full!! Its true milspec and robust. Changing the grip out as soon as I get it from Grant. At least get the lower from Grant till you figure out the upper.
I just ordered an LMT lower from Grant. You will be happy with LMT, based on all the feedback around here. This is my first LMT purchase. I am still deciding on an upper to go with it, but the short list will be:
Noveske N4 Light Low Profile 14.5 with pinned vortex
BCM 16" midlength gas system
LMT 16"
Don't rush into anything. Look around for a week or so to learn about the different options you may choose for rails, grips, stocks, etc.
Mods - I am taunting steel so please excuse the link
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18348
:D:D:D
PS - Check out Noveske and BMT - Grant can hook you up with whatever. Basically, get the penny bank full and call him:)
The Bank will be fat around October so don't worry about that. I hope I can get it before hunting season goes out.
Ya, go for LMT or a Colt 6921. Since youre gonna be using it for deer, I recommend trying the hollow point Hornady rounds if you dont already have them.
BTW, do you have photos of that old Bushmaster barrel of yours? Id like to see it.
Sorry I don't have any pics of the barrel. All I know is it made that gun a lot heavier than I wanted to carry through the woods.
Is it a 14.5 M4 Heavy barrel?
The LMT govt. profile barrel should be significantly lighter. I have a BM 14.5 heavy barrel, same one you have I think, and it's a pain to carry around.
I just picked up a LMT Defender 2000 today and bone stock it is very light. Now my Bushmaster has a companion. I've already swapped out the M4 stock and replaced it with a used SOPMOD I've had laying around and changed the handguards to a Vltor CAS-V set-up and its still light.
Since I live in NC that has A LOT of thick brush I don't need alot of attachments.
Where in NC?
I got my first AR, an LMT defender 2000 from Grant about 2months ago. I am VERY pleased with it! I dont have any experience with any other AR's but am glad I took the advice from this sight.
Just make sure you buy from a reputable seller(Grant) I bout my first LMT at a gun show and it was a put together rifle that didnt have an LMT bcg. Lucky for me the dealer took it back, he had told me it was 100% LMT when he sold it to me.
I am looking for a M4 Style Carbine. I had a Bushmaster but it had a heavy barrel and made it too heavy. I want something light enough that I wouldn't mind carry it through the thick bush of North Carolina.
I like the DPMS cause of the custom features on it. Titanium nitride bolt carrier, Adjustable trigger, cryogenic accurizing which I not sure if it is a gimmick or what, Chrome lined bore and chamber. What I want to know is there another company that makes a more robust M4 that I can get these features on. Opinions please.
Cryo treatment hardens metal for the better,it's on engines,knives,musical instruments,it's worth it to me.I had my Noveske barrel done.Nascar engine builders have it done to their engine parts including the block.
Where in NC?
North Eastern Part of North Carolina. I live in between Edenton and Windsor. The Great Dismal Swamp is my Playground. :D
I can handle people being blunt just as long as they are Honest. Looks like everything I have read LMT would be the way to go for me. I talked to my good friend bgoode a little bit ago and he was telling about his LMT he just got. He told me about it before but I forget who made it. The one he has is in my price range also.
Since I live in NC that has A LOT of thick brush I don't need alot of attachments. The less I have on it the less that can be ripped off by veins and briars. LOL We were talking about what barrel length I should get also. 14.5" with pinned flash or 16". I have shots around here that can go out to 500-600 yards easy. Even with a 16" barrel I wouldn't try to make 500 or 600 yard shot unless I needed to.
The average shot would be around 200-300 yards. Yes I plan to hunt with it and carry when ever I am in the woods. I don't dog hunt either. I either still hunt or track. I know most people would tell me to get a hunting rifle if I was going to hunt. I say where is the fun in that. :D
With the ranges you are talking about especially in the "unless I needed to" category you have definitely not chosen the right rifle caliber for reliable humane kills. You are going to need the extra velocity of the 16" barrel with a 1 in 7 twist (LMT) and you are going to have to be careful on ammunition selection. Think 75-77 grn from BH or Hornady in 5.56mm not .223. There is a significant velocity difference in the offerings. Although you can hit targets at these ranges with cheaper, lighter ammo this is about responsible hunting practices not putting holes in paper or dinging steel. Good luck.
If obamma wins this will all become irrelevant. :mad:
While were on the subject of brands and NC what do you think of Del-Ton lowers?? Steel, this may be a more afordable quality lower like we were discussing on the phone.
With the ranges you are talking about especially in the "unless I needed to" category you have definitely not chosen the right rifle caliber for reliable humane kills. You are going to need the extra velocity of the 16" barrel with a 1 in 7 twist (LMT) and you are going to have to be careful on ammunition selection. Think 75-77 grn from BH or Hornady in 5.56mm not .223. There is a significant velocity difference in the offerings. Although you can hit targets at these ranges with cheaper, lighter ammo this is about responsible hunting practices not putting holes in paper or dinging steel. Good luck.
If obamma wins this will all become irrelevant. :mad:
I understand what you are saying. Yes I would use a heavier grain bullet that's why I want the 1 in 7 twist. I have used a .243 to hunt with since I started hunting. I have used smaller calibers than 5.56 to take deer. Like always it is about Shot Placement. Hunting with smaller calibers has helped me become VERY good at it with a rifle. Most of the hunters that hunt in my local area use HUGE calibers. That tells me that either they are shooting at long distances or can't shoot. Longest shot I have seen was around 800 yards and that can be done with a .308 with practice and the RIGHT RIFLE. Most hunters around here don't practice. That tells me that they aren't shooting at long distances.
HolyRoller
09-01-08, 11:25
Since I live in NC that has A LOT of thick brush I don't need alot of attachments. The less I have on it the less that can be ripped off by veins and briars.
And those arteries can catch on gear too! :) Limiting your carbine appendages to only what really helps you is good policy. Yes, whatever you do keep should be on there firmly enough that shrubbery won't be able to take it off, but that's easy enough to make happen. If you have, say, a vertical foregrip and an optic, I can't think of any mount that's so weak as to allow vegetation to scrape pieces off your carbine.
We were talking about what barrel length I should get also. 14.5" with pinned flash or 16". I have shots around here that can go out to 500-600 yards easy. Even with a 16" barrel I wouldn't try to make 500 or 600 yard shot unless I needed to.
The average shot would be around 200-300 yards. Yes I plan to hunt with it and carry when ever I am in the woods. I don't dog hunt either. I either still hunt or track. I know most people would tell me to get a hunting rifle if I was going to hunt. I say where is the fun in that. :D
Before planning on taking game 500-600 yards away, I'd get to a range to see if you can actually hit stuff that far away with that rig. And by definition, any rifle that's legal to hunt with, IS a hunting rifle if you use it for hunting. I would have taken a six-pointer last year with my M4gery, except that when he poked out of the woods when I was dryfiring, I didn't have a single live round on me. Missed with my 1911 backup too. Oh well, he'll have 8 points this year, at least I hope that's how it works.
Most of my shots will be under 300 yards depending where I am Hunting. Another bad thing about more attachments is the will get snagged and will get hung up. I will have to untangle my rifle and it will make more noise than I want to make.
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