View Full Version : Polymer framed hammer fired DA SA guns
ramairthree
06-21-16, 17:58
I got side tracked on this in another thread,
When it comes to polymer framed DA SA guns,
Has anyone ever seen or done a shoot off type of review on them?
Off the top of my head would be PX4, 2022, HK45/P30, P07/P09, FNX, some stuff they don't make anymore like the P95 and some stuff I have never seen like the Excalibur.
What else am I missing?
I've leered at the HK P30, Sig 2022 and FNX. Berettas just aren't my thang...
I have been very happy with the 2 P-07s I have (both 9mm).
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B_6LplRPiI8/V1tgXqjEiyI/AAAAAAAADF4/9zCB3mRm9wgeXMDH-ANw8IEXD2-b9N40QCCo/s1000/DSC_0192.JPG
Pic added to show the CGW springs I install to improve the DA trigger. The 20 pound stock mainspring is seriously overkill.
I love my 07. It is a sleepy gun. Not many people know about it and when they do, they see the price around $400 and dismiss it as cheap junk. If HK made the 07 it would have been priced at $850 and hailed as a breakthrough.
I might add the HK P2000. I don't own one, but handled it in LEM recently and was impressed. Its the configuration LAV prefers and I can see why. I fired a USP compact in LEM before, but didn't remember liking it, but this 2000 seemed like it was very nice. Light and robust and from all reviews seems great, and great grip and form factor. Some critique mag capacity, but it is truly a compact gun. Worth a look.
Cannot go wrong with the P07. Nice size and weight, well built, reliable, accurate. I find the grip a TAD skinny feeling, and when I handled it with gloves I seemed to get my trigger finger in a jammed position in the rear - likely just me being uncoordinated. Its convertible to CL carry also. VERY good gun.
FNX SEEMS to be GTG, but something just feels a tad 'cheapie' to me - maybe its the safety operation - just feels cheap. Maybe I got biased reading a review on one that broke. It has a decent trigger, but not great. Hi cap for the size and by all reports accurate and reliable. Light. Barrel looks SUPER thin.
Beretta. Not the greatest reviews and comments here. Nice grip. Seems REALLY thick to me in some areas. Again, the stupid Beretta safety thing. You can convert it though.
Add P99 - yeah its SF, but the trigger system is rather good. I own ad shoot one, and its a great gun. I don't put the trigger in quite the same class as the 2022 or HK. It stacks a bit at the end. I think I can fix this with a Glock spring. I needed to polish mine quite a bit. It is Glock light, accurate and reliable.
Of course you can read my posts on the 2022. Trigger on this is AWESOME. Best of breed in these guns. P series performance and quality in a polymer frame. Its a tad thinner. Overbuilt. Superb gun.
I love my 07. It is a sleepy gun. Not many people know about it and when they do, they see the price around $400 and dismiss it as cheap junk. If HK made the 07 it would have been priced at $850 and hailed as a breakthrough.
Ruh-roh, major HK fanboy butthurt starting in 4...3...2...1... :cool:
m4brian needs to stop praising the 2022 - I have logical reasons to not buy one.... but I kinda want one!
Forgot about the P2000, but I think the P30 is HKs best gun in this category. The less said about the USP the better....
tacticaldesire
06-21-16, 22:45
There's a version of the Sphinx SDP that has a polymer grip lower with a hard anodized aluminum upper and a steel slide. If I was choosing one, that's what I would go for. Very high quality handguns but you're looking at about $950 MSRP.
Otherwise I'd be looking at a HKP2000, P30, USP, Sig 2022 and CZ P-07/09
I love my FNX9. By far the best handgun purchase I have made. Extremely accurate (I'm no ace or nothing, but I can hit stuff.), easy handling, fully ambidextrous, and well... everything I could ask for.
Since all that's out of my system, I'm now looking at a VP9.
Ruh-roh, major HK fanboy butthurt starting in 4...3...2...1... :cool:
....
Couldn't help it :)
I don't own an HK, but I still think the 2000 LEM deserves a mention. Looks like you can nail one for less than $700 OTD, and the size/weight/grip are excellent. But,it is not true DA/SA.
One criticism of SIG. They need to bring the 2022 compact across the pond. That would be the perfect 2022. I'd buy a couple.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160622/b89a0cbca9ca02f57020e416bc775c8c.jpg
It's a CZ P09 urban grey suppressor ready. 21 rounds of 9mm in the mag. Get a full CGW action job and have an awesome pistol under $700.
One of the best polymer DA/SA guns you can get IMO.
I am a big CZ fan but also have had multiple Hk pistols.
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diving dave
06-22-16, 09:14
Have had good function with my FNX, she's a big girl though...Not a CCW gun. Just waiting on my Silencerco Osprey to finish the package.
40121
FNX-45 owns some exclusive space and in FDE it's way cool.
If I got a CZ P 07/09 I'd just do some polishing to refine the DA pull. It isn't that bad, and has good potential. It is now out of the unknown woods, and hopefully CZ will allow MecGar to sell the mags direct. Came very close to getting one.
wildcard600
06-22-16, 13:02
I don't own an HK, but I still think the 2000 LEM deserves a mention. Looks like you can nail one for less than $700 OTD, and the size/weight/grip are excellent. But,it is not true DA/SA.
One criticism of SIG. They need to bring the 2022 compact across the pond. That would be the perfect 2022. I'd buy a couple.
CDNN has the V3 P2000's for $599 which is the DA/SA version. It can easily be converted to LEM if wanted.
I really like the P2000 and now that it is priced in the Glock 19 range (around here at least) i think its a great option for those who prefer hammer fired.
Yes at 6 hundred that is a good deal. Does the gun have to be sent back for LEM?
One more thing on P99: easiest slide takedown on any pistol I've seen. Very slick.
wildcard600
06-22-16, 13:44
Yes at 6 hundred that is a good deal. Does the gun have to be sent back for LEM?
One more thing on P99: easiest slide takedown on any pistol I've seen. Very slick.
You can do the LEM conversion yourself in about 20 minutes it appears. There is an excellent thread on HKpro about it. Doing the conversion will void the factory warranty however but i'm not sure why the P2000 is any different than any of HK's other pistols in this regard.
If ypu want LEM it would probably be cheaper just to get it that way from the start, however you cannot convert from factory LEM to DA/SA only the other way around (unless you are willing to cut into the frame to make clearance for the decocker mechanism).
multistage
06-23-16, 05:10
P2000s are pretty good guns. I have the standard and the sk, both 9mm, and both V3.
The triggers are, well.....decidedly not great. But they're OK. The guns shoot well indeed. I'd have no issues recommending them.
CDNN has the V3 P2000's for $599 which is the DA/SA version. It can easily be converted to LEM if wanted.
I really like the P2000 and now that it is priced in the Glock 19 range (around here at least) i think its a great option for those who prefer hammer fired.
The P2000 doesn't lend itself to LEM conversions like the USP series of pistols do. The V3 P2000 can be converted to LEM however the decocker at the rear of the frame becomes an issue.
I just got a P07, after reading here I might have paid a bit too much. I was $510 out the door, but I've been waiting like a year to actually see one on the shelf so it was hard to pass up. I have absolutely no need for it but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a negative thing about them. The only thing I don't like about it is the price of mags.
wildcard600
06-23-16, 12:12
The P2000 doesn't lend itself to LEM conversions like the USP series of pistols do. The V3 P2000 can be converted to LEM however the decocker at the rear of the frame becomes an issue.
Not really, you can remove the decocker with an LEM sear or leave it and have basically the LEM V0 which is the LEM with decocker.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/169316-how-convert-v3-da-sa-p2000sk-v1-v2-lem.html
$510 OTD isn't bad. My LGS is more and GB prices are up in the upper 400s for the GEN 2. An FDE would be nice,
If any of you are Leo/Mil then get ahold of CZ directly. They are very generous with the discount.
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If any of you are Leo/Mil then get ahold of CZ directly. They are very generous with the discount.
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SO what is the LE/MIL price on a CZ P07?
Well the P09 I just bought was under $600 with 3 extra magazines. Can't tell you on the P07 as I bought mine when academy had them for $350 lol.
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If any of you are Leo/Mil then get ahold of CZ directly. They are very generous with the discount.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well crap, I wish I would have known that last week. I never heard of CZ doing IOP programs.
Surprised no one has mentioned the CZ 75 SP01 Phantom :) Haven't handled one yet, but ergonomically if you like the CZ 75 SP01 Shadow, it's the polymer framed brother of it.
Uses same mags as CZ 75 so they are about 1/2 the price of CZ 07 / 09 mags :)
Looking forward to getting mine in August hopefully.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-phantom/
Coal Dragger
06-24-16, 12:21
They discontinued that in 2013 according to your link.
Unless I'm not aware of the cost dropping recently, the downside to the P07 & P09 are the cost of the mags. How is durability and reliability on these guns?
I've only shot it once, but I really liked the USP9 Compact. I like the USP's in general and find their triggers decent. The Beretta PX4 Compact has gotten some interest lately due to Ernst Langdon giving a thumbs up. Beretta has just come out with a Langdon spec version. The SigPro9mm / 2022 is a beautifully crafted tank of pistol with a nice trigger with ergo's that some, like myself, find a little wonky. By far, the best value out there in a DA/SA polymer hammer fired pistol.
The mags are on the expensive side. On sale in the upper $30's.
Mike Pannone has over 40k through a P09 and hasn't replaced a single part. His gun was built by Cajun gun works and they recently took it back in the shop. David detail stripped it and inspected it thoroughly. He didn't replace anything but springs and sent it back.
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Shot a CZ P07 Duty today alongside my SP2022. No contest. The P07 was way snappy. Granted it was shooting S&B ammo which may be hotter than Perfecta, so I tried S&B in my SP 2022. SP 2022 handles recoil better. If I concentrate I can put two rds through the same hole in a DA/SA double tap at 7 yds. The trigger on this gun ROCKS! Yes, it's a tad longer than a 229, but also a tad lighter and smoother. With the flat mag bases it is the same height as the P07, and only a tad longer. And to me it shoots softer. Cmon SIG, give us the compact version too!
They discontinued that in 2013 according to your link.
They still make them. The Czech military has been sucking up most of the production available (5500) and CZ USA doesn't import very many right now.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/14349/Czech_Republic_To_Buy_Thousands_Of_Assault_Rifles__Armored_Vehicles
But you can still find them new if you look around. I found mine at Tombstone Tactical in AZ.
James
teutonicpolymer
06-26-16, 11:14
I checked out a P-09 again the other day and a P-07. I want so badly to like them but on the P-07 the hammer was canted so it was rubbing on the frame. I think this is something that can be easily fixed with CGW parts. The bigger issue I noticed was that the trigger was too close to the rear of the frame and it was not working for me. I don't know what back strap was being used but I don't think this is something that can be fixed by going to a larger backstrap since they're not designed like the Glock gen 4 types which include the beavertail.
The P-07 shot decently but it was definitely oversprung and felt too small in my hands.
To me the grip is a bit thin on the CZ P series. It makes the recoil feel snappier than normal. Kinda like the MP for me. I need the medium even though the small feels great in the shop.
I wear XL gloves but I run the medium backstraps on the 07s. I want my wife to be able to use them.
Never thought the 07s felt snappy and I have quite a few bigger, heavier 9mms.
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