View Full Version : BREXIT CONTENT HERE: Brexit - what's the deal? - Leaving the EU
Eurodriver
06-22-16, 05:41
I live 3000 miles away, but I'm trying to care a little bit. Part of me wonders if England leaves if it might be a bad thing. Scotland and Wales have threatened to secede from the UK, and some have speculated about it leading to a dissolution of the EU in general. On the other hand, I have never seen the EU do anything that I agree with, ever, and 16 Billion GBP a year to support nations letting in these guys seems excessive:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/21/video-calais-migrants-block-roads-destroy-cars-shout-fuk-uk/
Thousands of illegal migrants in Calais have blocked roads, rioted and attacked vehicles in coordinated attempts to break into the UK en masse.
Ferries were disrupted and police were forced to temporarily close some roads last night, with the attacks continuing today.
Fearful English football fans and tourists trying to pass through the town said migrants had thrown stones at their vehicles and they shouted “F*ck the UK”.
Interesting technique though. Let's scream F the UK while trying to get into the UK to steal their benefits. These guys took a play out of the Mexican's playbook.
Business_Casual
06-22-16, 05:47
It's a non-binding referendum. The most immediate effect will be to bring down the feckless Cameron government. He creates crisis in the future to escape a present crisis. He was behind in the polls for re-election and promised a vote if he won. The chickens have come home to roost.
I watched the debate on BBC last night, you think the media in the USA has a left tilt. The BBC was so bias as to be a joke but it was very interesting to watch.
I for one would love to see the UK exit, some of the future plans Merkel has for the EU, give me concern. A united military and intelligence agency for example. She is pushing hard for a United States of Europe.
I watched the debate on BBC last night, you think the media in the USA has a left tilt. The BBC was so bias as to be a joke but it was very interesting to watch.
I for one would love to see the UK exit, some of the future plans Merkel has for the EU, give me concern. A united military and intelligence agency for example. She is pushing hard for a United States of Europe.
LOL United States of Europe. Guess she jumped ahead to the let illegals graze social welfare programs while skipping the whole freedom part. How very progressive of her.
Not quite sure why Britain leaving the EU will be so bad for them, but I understand why the EU wants to keep them in. The British Pound is about the only stable and valued currency left in the EU. Germany is hitting negative interest rates on their bonds. The PIGS really bring very little economically to the table as do small nations like Hungary, Romania... Not sure how the Scandinavian economies are doing. That pretty much leaves France and Germany. If England truly ejects a lot currency value leaves. Can't imagine that being good for the ole USSE.
Guessing that the USSE, being the tolerant bunch they are, would try to economically punish the British for ditching them. In the end I'm not sure how that would play out. It's a world economy and there are other non USSE markets to play in. Considering the state of the Western Europe economy of late it's probably a minimal hit if they place an embargo against England.
Soros seems to have his panties in a bunch, but I'm guessing he will make $$ whichever way the English choose to go. But his wet dream of a unified socialist Europe may have to wait a bit longer.
Since it's a non binding resolution it doesn't mean squat though. The British political elite will do whatever they want anyway.
Straight Shooter
06-22-16, 09:15
The mere fact that Soros doesn't want it, would be reason enough for me to vote for it. Lord, PLEASE take this goblin ASAP!
Why Ive kept up with this, I don't know, my take on it is they should vote "leave". Im hoping they do, if nothing else to see some change & make some of the elites shit their britches.
<----who has two thumbs and doesn't give a shit.....
Leave, don't leave, just stop the damn British drama.....
ColtSeavers
06-22-16, 09:24
I don't really care. I mean, I care if the World's economy collapses sooner rather than later, and if this Brexit will be a catalyst for that, but otherwise, it's up to the peasants, sorry, people, that got thrown a tablescrap to vote one way or another and I, as US Citizen have no real say in it. I am just impressed that they are actually getting the chance to vote for it to begin with, that the promise to do so (if Cameron won) was actually upheld.
Although Brexit might have minimal impact on our lives here with one area of impact being temporary market flux, it is still worthy of our attention. If all goes as planned for the United States we may one day find ourselves in the same situation as Great Britain once the North American Union is fully implemented. What takes place on a government/bureaucratic level in the EU slowly finds its way here to the shores of the United States and I repeat it is not in out best interests.
See documentary below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
An exit vote would be symbolic of progressive utopian dreams. Our own progressives think Europe is ahead of us and that we should imitate them. If Europe demonstrates that it doesn't work like they wished before we implode our own nation with progressivism, it may stir our own people to rethink the course and vote accordingly.
Merkel is growing unpopular in Germany because of immigration. She may be out soon as well.
Although Brexit might have minimal impact on our lives here with one area of impact being temporary market flux, it is still worthy of our attention. If all goes as planned for the United States we may one day find ourselves in the same situation as Great Britain once the North American Union is fully implemented. What takes place on a government/bureaucratic level in the EU slowly finds its way here to the shores of the United States and I repeat it is not in out best interests.
See documentary below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
So to be as naïve to say you don't give a shit or to tell a country to stop their drama is like telling a states residents who are gun owners to quit their bitching over state gun control laws because at the end of the day their state laws have no impact on you... yet.
If you take the time to watch this documentary I am sure most here will fully understand the legitimacy of those pushing for Britain to exit the EU. You too would not like to be bound to the same regulatory and bureaucratic chains as those in the EU are.
But hey who am I to say who likes bondage in the context of this thread.
Edited as I am needlessly needling and being provocative. Since I am going on vacation tomorrow, I am not doing it.
Edited as I am needlessly needling and being provocative. Since I am going on vacation tomorrow, I am not doing it.
My apologies if my OP was a bit aggressive as that is uncalled for, it has since been edited.
My apologies if my OP was a bit aggressive as that is uncalled for, it has since been edited.
No worries. According to my wife I need to be more self-aware, especially when I am being pissy for pissy's sake. :) You do bring up some good points, regardless of how I feel about it.
Honestly, a free people should be allowed to choose their own destiny. Stay or go.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
The_War_Wagon
06-22-16, 11:22
I live 3000 miles away, but I'm trying to care a little bit. Part of me wonders if England leaves if it might be a bad thing.
ONLY if you're in LONG on the Euro. :sarcastic:
Getting out of the EU, means no more mohammedans shipped - with NOTHING you can do about it - from Berlin. Or anywhere ELSE in Europe.
If Obama opposes it, you KNOW it's a GREAT plan! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
sadly London and its muslim mayor has started its won death from within !
he has already stated some scary future things 9or so the stories say) and at the recent rally the pics and stories of women having to stand in the back ! the call for a massive flood of muslims to balance out England and make it as it should be etc..
they can leave but that is like being on a lake of posion and saying I want out of the boat but staying on the lake just in another boat
just notice its our future ! as mentioned the progressives LOVE the idea of the EU or at least its control it can give those in power
She is pushing hard for a United States of Europe.
She's doing it primarily because that's the only way the EU can survive. The current state where they have monetary but not political or fiscal union is untenable in the long term. Ze Germans won't stand for supporting the Greeks and others for very long without some measure of political control over them.
The EU was originally about expediting duty free money moving. Now it's every other country living out of someone else's pockets and playing hot potato with the entirety of the Hijra.
No matter how they vote, they have two years of "negotiation".
It won't be like the next Ft. Sumter nor will the Queen take control and declare Imperial Sovereignty or anything.
Moose-Knuckle
06-23-16, 01:54
End game is NWO globalist utopia . . . we all know that will never work.
I say it's a good thing that Brits are waking up and wanting to maintain some sort of sovereignty, **** the EU.
We should have exited the UN and kicked them off our shores before now . . .
there was a good recent thing done on Venezuela
and how its become such a mess with no food no money to buy food etc..
yet the rich live in amazing wealth and have special stores just for them that are stocked well etc...
this is what the upper crust wants to do to the US
watch that video I linked to start at about 35 minutes in notice special stores and special taxes for special people etc..
notice when it started the control and regulations
again the upper crust the clintons the bushes will be on there side we will be on ours and they want you to think we are on the same side but we are not !!!
again google up the wealthy now in Venezuela and how they are living to the poor what the EU is doing is the same and what they want here !!!!!
there was a good recent thing done on Venezuela
and how its become such a mess with no food no money to buy food etc..
yet the rich live in amazing wealth and have special stores just for them that are stocked well etc...
this is what the upper crust wants to do to the US
watch that video I linked to start at about 35 minutes in notice special stores and special taxes for special people etc..
notice when it started the control and regulations
again the upper crust the clintons the bushes will be on there side we will be on ours and they want you to think we are on the same side but we are not !!!
again google up the wealthy now in Venezuela and how they are living to the poor what the EU is doing is the same and what they want here !!!!!
Who needs a time machine to see the future when really all we need to do is look beyond our shores or even in some cases state lines.
No worries. According to my wife I need to be more self-aware, especially when I am being pissy for pissy's sake. :) You do bring up some good points, regardless of how I feel about it.
Is it possible we are married to the same woman? That speech is on a loop with my wife. Have a nice vacation - since I imagine you are already gone - my wishes for a pleasant time.
Those cowards won't leave. Just like the Scots didn't.
horseman234
06-23-16, 10:37
Great speech by Daniel Hannan supporting the exit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNj-hH8LkY
agree :) why when I post the stuff even about Canada etc.. and some think it does not matter here one bit but history shows the US is just behind the other countries in idiocy !!
and agree about state lines !
Who needs a time machine to see the future when really all we need to do is look beyond our shores or even in some cases state lines.
Great speech by Daniel Hannan supporting the exit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzNj-hH8LkY
That was great, especially the lovely english tart at center stage
Vote is super close right now. 22.5% reporting and its 50.3% Stay vs. 49.7% Leave. Not sure if the big cities have reported yet. I would imagine they will lean more toward staying.
Forecasters in UK are saying the vote is to leave, Wall Street Journal just reported.
80% reporting in and a preponderance is to leave.
It'll be interesting. This is a test of sovereignty.
But at the same time, I would be concerned if I had to live there.
Eurodriver
06-23-16, 23:29
So what does this mean? As far as I know Her Majesty's government technically doesn't have to leave, right?
It is a nonbinding resolution. The government doesn't have to leave but the PM and a lot of other politicians could be votes out quickly if the people call for a vote.
So what does this mean? As far as I know Her Majesty's government technically doesn't have to leave, right?
From what I've read, even if the vote passes and is recognized, there is still a two year negotiation and so forth.
Which means they may not be allowed to leave or can be stalled for a good while.
Money. Without UK, the Euro will bottom. And again, most of Europe is broke and living out of other nations' pockets. Hence the VAT tax.
The Germans, or rather Merkel, have tried to throw the UK under the bus over the Muslim influx and still benefiting from the pound.
This could well be USSR collapse part II because it sets a precedent. A lot of former Warsaw Pact nations have been trying to get EU membership and NATO membership but have yet to yield any real benefit aside from a shared currency which will decline.
So....a potential domino effect of breakaway nations that certain heads of state can NOT afford. This is not even counting the mass muslim swapping. Nor the overbearing gun control pushes.
Hence that run on guns in the Czech Republic and Austria a while back.
Lots of implications here.
I think technically the government does have to leave as the referendum is a legal course of action for the country, if that makes sense. I'm English and have to say I'm surprised the exit vote is going to win. I really thought people would have a last second change of heart and vote remain. Talking to friends back home, immigration is the one thing people are sick of. The pound is down 13% currently against the dollar. I fear it dumping more off today and setting off a financial tailspin. I can see the Bank of England getting involved to shore up the currency if it happens.
Edit: I stand corrected, it is non binding but I think the will of the people will carry. It would political suicide for Cameron and the Tory party to go against it.
well they are FREE !!!
now we see what happens and see if England can gain anything back that has been taken ?
best of luck to them !
Funny thing that every poll said they would stay...( that I saw anyway)
European stock market is plunging to a 30 years low. I'm afraid to look at the NYSE and NASDAQ when they open later this morning. :(
short term hit for the long term good :)
European stock market is plunging to a 30 years low. I'm afraid to look at the NYSE and NASDAQ when they open later this morning. :(
European stock market is plunging to a 30 years low. I'm afraid to look at the NYSE and NASDAQ when they open later this morning. :(
My mom is a VP in a small investment co. We were talking about this last night, she is gonna have a FUUUN day. That Bloomburg Trading Platform terminal is gonna be on fire!
KalashniKEV
06-24-16, 06:21
Dodgy Dave just quit.
Those cowards won't leave. Just like the Scots didn't.
Ok I was wrong. Happily wrong. Now if they regain the right to self defense they'll really have something going for individual liberty
Averageman
06-24-16, 06:46
Now if they can give the immigrants that they didn't want to come in, in the first place, a little more incentive to leave they can have their country back.
I would guess the markets will stabilize and the real loser will be the E.U.
European stock market is plunging to a 30 years low. I'm afraid to look at the NYSE and NASDAQ when they open later this morning. :(
I looked for you:
Dow Jones mini Futures as of 7:51 AM EDT 6/24/2016
DM1:IND 17,401.00 USD -514.00 -2.87%
well they are FREE !!!
Not quite as there are 2 years of negotiations with the EU ahead of them.
Look at it this way, Schmidt and Bender scopes will be cheaper :D
I assume the Euro stock markets are falsely high and propped up by govt like ours anyways.
Didn't think that would happen at all. My Brit friends most people are stunned. I have not researched the topic enough to form an opinion on the pros/cons of it.
'Explosive shock' as Britain votes to leave EU, Cameron quits
Britain voted to leave the European Union, forcing the resignation of Prime Minister David Cameron and dealing the biggest blow to the European project of greater unity since World War Two.
Global financial markets plunged on Friday as results from a referendum showed a 52-48 percent victory for the campaign to leave a bloc Britain joined more than 40 years ago.
The pound fell as much as 10 percent against the dollar to touch levels last seen in 1985, on fears the decision could hit investment in the world's fifth-largest economy, threaten London's role as a global financial capital and usher in months of political uncertainty.
Cont:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-idUSKCN0Z902K
Straight Shooter
06-24-16, 07:37
AS Ive said before..just knowing George Soros was putting out fear mongering propaganda to remain, was about enough for me to want them to leave.
Im so glad they voted to get out...its a thumb in the eye of the New World Order, the piece of shit Muslims, liberals and even Obama who stuck his ****in nose in it when he shouldn't have. F-em all..I say JOLLY GOOD SHOW, OLE CHAPS!!
Straight Shooter
06-24-16, 07:40
In no time at all....all this fear mongering, manipulation and propaganda will be gone, and stuff should stabilize. Im so glad those folks didn't let love of money, fear, propaganda & lies replace their desire for freedom & to control their own destiny. God bless em I say. SCREW THE DAMN MARKETS...Ill take more freedom any day.
Cincinnatus
06-24-16, 07:44
AS Ive said before..just knowing George Soros was putting out fear mongering propaganda to remain, was about enough for me to want them to leave.
Im so glad they voted to get out...its a thumb in the eye of the New World Order, the piece of shit Muslims, liberals and even Obama who stuck his ****in nose in it when he shouldn't have. F-em all..I say JOLLY GOOD SHOW, OLE CHAPS!!
This!
Business_Casual
06-24-16, 07:44
It is non-binding, they have to trigger Art. 50 to leave the EU. That can only be done by the Government, not a referendum.
Short term, a lower GBP means more exports, more tourism, less imports (more domestic production) and more value creation for British companies. But they'll find a way to screw that up.
The GBP isn't in a tailspin.
Outlander Systems
06-24-16, 07:45
Hopefully the Pound Sterling can be backed by an actual pound of silver...
Gold and silver are doing alright this morning.
Meanwhile, Hank Johnson wants to know where is Britain moving to and how many tug boats will it take to move it?
Hank at his best 6 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 08:01
In no time at all....all this fear mongering, manipulation and propaganda will be gone, and stuff should stabilize. Im so glad those folks didn't let love of money, fear, propaganda & lies replace their desire for freedom & to control their own destiny. God bless em I say. SCREW THE DAMN MARKETS...Ill take more freedom any day.
Whut?
This was all about fear on both sides. Fear of migrants on one side and Fear of being isolated from trade on the other.
It will take Britain 20-25 year to fully recover from this, their trade position is severely impacted now. They have no trade partners with their immediate neighbors or with the US now, this will drive them further to embracing China.
yeah and that is fast for the EU sure they want to stretch it to 20 or more :)
Not quite as there are 2 years of negotiations with the EU ahead of them.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 08:05
I looked for you:
Dow Jones mini Futures as of 7:51 AM EDT 6/24/2016
DM1:IND 17,401.00 USD -514.00 -2.87%
My guess is we could see a loss of up to 6%, everyone is going to loose at least the last 12 months of gains their 401k took in.
sevenhelmet
06-24-16, 08:06
Money. Without UK, the Euro will bottom. And again, most of Europe is broke and living out of other nations' pockets. Hence the VAT tax.
Hence the EU. Britain had the Value Added Tax (VAT) a long time before the EU existed. That crap has been proposed over here and (thankfully) been vociferously voted down, although states like Kalifornia and New Yorkistan have their own versions (my personal favorite: CA's "Department of Equalization". They aren't even trying to hide this shit any more.) But I digress...
I don't think it will necessarily be bad for Britain to leave the EU, if they play their cards right. The key will be embracing their sovereignty and, to a lesser degree, how the US and other countries respond. That being said, trends lately make me think it's going to make them a pariah in the short term.
Averageman
06-24-16, 08:15
It is non-binding, they have to trigger Art. 50 to leave the EU. That can only be done by the Government, not a referendum.
Short term, a lower GBP means more exports, more tourism, less imports (more domestic production) and more value creation for British companies. But they'll find a way to screw that up.
The GBP isn't in a tailspin.
In fact, I am wondering if they saw the future of the euro as a more dangerous future than leaving and going it on their own?
Yes, the market will falter, but honestly I don't think they will have any issues making future trade agreements and moving forward to rebuild and stabilize their country.
Smart guys may be looking toward investing at this time.
AS Ive said before..just knowing George Soros was putting out fear mongering propaganda to remain, was about enough for me to want them to leave.
Not to mention these two clowns.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/hillary-clinton-warns-against-brexit-vote/
http://dailysignal.com/2016/04/26/obamas-anti-brexit-threat-will-backfire/
Averageman
06-24-16, 08:29
And on a related note;
Are Geer Wilder and Jimmy Page long lost cousins or what?
My guess is we could see a loss of up to 6%, everyone is going to loose at least the last 12 months of gains their 401k took in.
Markets go up and down. They always have and they always will.
Panic selling is the worst thing anybody could do unless that need the cash right now for something important.
Parring losses already:
DJIA 17601.75
-409.32
-2.27%
9:55 AM
I'm a little confused....can someone splain to me...
Isn't David Cameron a conservative? Or does a conservative in the UK not mean the same thing as a conservative in the USA? If conservative means the same thing in both the UK and USA, why is a conservative David Cameron so buddy buddy with a socialist like Obama?
Wouldn't a conservative Brit want sovereignty and independence? The opposing Labour Party is the socialist party, no? And as such wouldn't the socialists (Labour Party) want more EU and global warming regulations crap and hence the conservatives would want less EU control?
Eurodriver
06-24-16, 08:54
I'm a little confused....can someone splain to me...
Isn't David Cameron a conservative? Or does a conservative in the UK not mean the same thing as a conservative in the USA? If conservative means the same thing in both the UK and USA, why is a conservative David Cameron so buddy buddy with a socialist like Obama?
Wouldn't a conservative Brit want sovereignty and independence? The opposing Labour Party is the socialist party, no? And as such wouldn't the socialists (Labour Party) want more EU and global warming regulations crap and hence the conservatives would want less EU control?
Conservative in the UK is a pubic hair's distance to the right of Hillary/Obama/Feinstein/Schumer, etc. Socialists are outright nuts. This is acknowledged fact.
Want proof? Look who the "Conservatives" in the UK appointed general election advisor - a lifelong US Democrat. There is a neat chart at the bottom of the page describing which side they are on for each issue.
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/08/how-conservative-would-uk-conservatives-be-us/67930/
The final tally from the above? Two Conservative policies similar to the Republican party; six to the Democrats. And in two instances — the death penalty and nationalized healthcare — it runs further to the left.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 08:57
In fact, I am wondering if they saw the future of the euro as a more dangerous future than leaving and going it on their own?
Yes, the market will falter, but honestly I don't think they will have any issues making future trade agreements and moving forward to rebuild and stabilize their country.
Smart guys may be looking toward investing at this time.
Who would be their trade partners? The EU members are certain to rebuff any agreement for a long time, US will certainly not take a risk with the bloodbath we will see and instability. The only options are China and Russia...
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 09:09
Markets go and down. They always have and they always will.
Panic selling is the worst thing anybody could do unless that need the cash right now for something important.
You are short selling what the ramifications of this is.
There is a strong possibility within 5 years this could cause the EU to fold. The best analogy is if Texas decides to secede from the US. Texas being one of the largest contributors to the Fed. Germany becomes the only financial powerhouse that could keep the EU afloat.
Look at what happened world wide when a few lenders messed with housing, it cause a significant economic collapse world wide.
This is the 5th largest economic center world wide that just closed it doors to trade, you are going to see an uncertainty with 2.9 Trillion on the line. (they just recovered this year from us dicking with the housing market BTW)
Singlestack Wonder
06-24-16, 09:14
France and the Neatherlands will drop out of the EU shortly. All of this will just be a blip on the stock market and the market will move on as wall street knows how to manipulate its market and others to ensure that gains are made in the mid to long term to continue making the wall street cartel richer.
Who would be their trade partners? The EU members are certain to rebuff any agreement for a long time, US will certainly not take a risk with the bloodbath we will see and instability. The only options are China and Russia...
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The EU neeeeeeeeeds cash so they will trade with the Brits. There are quotes from German businesses in various papers that fair trade should still apply to GB even though they are choosing to eject. If France, Netherlands and other nations follow suit with their own exit votes there will be trade partners. Hopefully in 2 years the EU will be nothing more than a few bankrupt socialist countries desperate for cash. The US has an election coming up and unless Kankles wins you know the Trumpster will trade freely with the Brits.
Europe as a continent of independent nations has stood for thousands of years and IMO was probably better of with respect to being able to minimize the farting butterfly in China economic shakes. Independent countries standing in their own feet and not intertwined in the affairs of different people (Europe may be mostly Christian whites but they are as different from one another as Sunni and Shiite) are better off IMO. The EU experiment hasn't brought squat to the table aside for taxes and immigrants. Neither of those are a good thing. It was nothing more than a Bernie Madoff pyramid scheme.
Outlander Systems
06-24-16, 09:19
So help me, if there was a Texit, me, and all of my assets would be applying for citizenship with a quickness.
You are short selling what the ramifications of this is.
There is a strong possibility within 5 years this could cause the EU to fold. The best analogy is if Texas decides to secede from the US. Texas being one of the largest contributors to the Fed. Germany becomes the only financial powerhouse that could keep the EU afloat.
Look at what happened world wide when a few lenders messed with housing, it cause a significant economic collapse world wide.
This is the 5th largest economic center world wide that just closed it doors to trade, you are going to see an uncertainty with 2.9 Trillion on the line. (they just recovered this year from us dicking with the housing market BTW)
Sweden is a part of the EU, but never adopted the Euro, but kept the Swedish Krona. Rumblings in the far right in that Country of leaving as well.
Business_Casual
06-24-16, 09:26
Who would be their trade partners? The EU members are certain to rebuff any agreement for a long time, US will certainly not take a risk with the bloodbath we will see and instability. The only options are China and Russia...
LOL, as if we'd stop allowing Range Rovers and Minis into our country. We, along with all the other countries of the world, aren't going to start a trade war over a non-binding referendum. The "ramifications" of this is to strengthen the UK's negotiating position with trade partners, in my opinion.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 09:26
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The EU neeeeeeeeeds cash so they will trade with the Brits. There are quotes from German businesses in various papers that fair trade should still apply to GB even though they are choosing to eject. If France, Netherlands and other nations follow suit with their own exit votes there will be trade partners. Hopefully in 2 years the EU will be nothing more than a few bankrupt socialist countries desperate for cash. The US has an election coming up and unless Kankles wins you know the Trumpster will trade freely with the Brits.
Europe as a continent of independent nations has stood for thousands of years and IMO was probably better of with respect to being able to minimize the farting butterfly in China economic shakes. Independent countries standing in their own feet and not intertwined in the affairs of different people (Europe may be mostly Christian whites but they are as different from one another as Sunni and Shiite) are better off IMO. The EU experiment hasn't brought squat to the table aside for taxes and immigrants. Neither of those are a good thing. It was nothing more than a Bernie Madoff pyramid scheme.
Germany is now in the drivers seat and as they have shown in the past they have long memories. The housing collapse was a 6 month even that took literally a decade to recover from. This at a minimum will be a two year event due to the negotiation timetable as outlined in the charter. That is Two years minimum of isolation from EU markets while they negotiate.
Conservative in the UK is a pubic hair's distance to the right of Hillary/Obama/Feinstein/Schumer, etc. Socialists are outright nuts. This is acknowledged fact.
Want proof? Look who the "Conservatives" in the UK appointed general election advisor - a lifelong US Democrat. There is a neat chart at the bottom of the page describing which side they are on for each issue.
http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/08/how-conservative-would-uk-conservatives-be-us/67930/
[/b]
Thanks for the help, but where does that put the UK Labour Party in all of this mix. If the UK Conservative Party is that liberal, does that make the Labour Party full-on communists?
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 09:34
LOL, as if we'd stop allowing Range Rovers and Minis into our country. We, along with all the other countries of the world, aren't going to start a trade war over a non-binding referendum. The "ramifications" of this is to strengthen the UK's negotiating position with trade partners, in my opinion.
Depends on how Article 50 is negotiated...
There are talks about London seceding from the UK. Also Northern Ireland and Scottland. British PM Cameron said he's stepping down as he can't in good conscience lead the country down this path.
Things are falling apart over there.
There's a reason the last time someone tried to seriously leave the US, the other half of the US dragged them back in.
France and the Neatherlands will drop out of the EU shortly.
I know a guy in the Hague that has been wishing for them to split for as long as I can remember. I agree, I think others will simply do the same. It's best the UK lead the way I suppose.
There are talks about London seceding from the UK. Also Northern Ireland and Scottland. British PM Cameron said he's stepping down as he can't in good conscience lead the country down this path.
Things are falling apart over there.
There's a reason the last time someone tried to seriously leave the US, the other half of the US dragged them back in.
Yes, cause they desperately needed the cash base.
Question is what can the EU do? They need the cash and the only stable currency within the EU. Are they willing to invade again? Doubtful. Are the willing to embargo the Brits? Maybe, but then how will they get $$. They embargo and try to rough house the Brits and maybe the Brits forget to send their taxes in. Then what?
IMO the Brits ware now in the drivers seat. They have a stable currency. It may free fall for a bit but NOBODY will take a pass on reinvesting in the Brits once the market reaches a known level. Too much $$ to be made. Even good ole Georgie boy will be back. So they have 2 years worth of this will hurt you more than us. The value of that threat may increase if Trump wins in November.
Business_Casual
06-24-16, 10:25
There are talks about London seceding from the UK.
London is a metropolitan area, not a country. It can't "leave" the UK.
Things are falling apart over there.
"There is a great deal of ruin in a country..."
Look guys, this isn't anything more than an expression of the will of the majority of the people. This isn't Article 50, this isn't the sky falling. Everyone needs to calm down and wait and watch, in my opinion.
London is a metropolitan area, not a country. It can't "leave" the UK.
So it takes a country to secede from a country? That doesn't make sense.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-london-independence-time-to-leave-uk-eu-referendum-sadiq-khan-boris-johnson-a7100601.html
http://www.theweek.co.uk/73896/london-independence-could-the-capital-break-away-from-the-uk
Outlander Systems
06-24-16, 10:47
Make Brittain Great Again.
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 10:56
So it takes a country to secede from a country? That doesn't make sense.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-london-independence-time-to-leave-uk-eu-referendum-sadiq-khan-boris-johnson-a7100601.html
http://www.theweek.co.uk/73896/london-independence-could-the-capital-break-away-from-the-uk
In the sense that a country is a distinct political, geographical, and/or ethnic region from adjoining areas, it does.
The chief problem with London succeeding from the UK is that virtually everyone who works there would have to live (and probably park) in what's still the UK. It would be like the District of Columbia succeeding from the US: Everybody who works there lives somewhere else, so it ends up being that virtually all your laborers live in a different country. Or that little spit of Washington where everyone has to do their shopping in Canada.
I'm a little confused....can someone splain to me...
You know how in the USA we say 40% is right, 40% is left and 10% in the center decide the election?
Well take that 10% and spread it across all UK. Labor would the left and Cons. would be right , but to us they are more center. If you have that picture in mind... Now take the center line and move it right. So now it looks like the 10% is not 50|50, but rather 75|25 as we would view it.
To them it's 50|50 in their perspective. But placed in our perspective it might look like LaborConser|vative.
Hillary is out quoting the Scottish today and how they hate Trump. I'm pretty sure they are far left for UK as you can get.
..........................................................USALeft|RightUSA...............................
ScotLibs........................................LaborConser|vative.
Bernie.....Hillary....................................................Trump.........................Cruz
Something along those lines. It's not the same by name as our perspective that's for sure.
...and don't quote me on this... but that's sort of my understanding. I may be wrong about this too, but I think there is strong sentiment of "Gov should take of me" across the UK.
Meanwhile, Hank Johnson wants to know where is Britain moving to and how many tug boats will it take to move it?
Hank at his best 6 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7XXVLKWd3Q
ROTFLMAO, good one. I still think that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
In the sense that a country is a distinct political, geographical, and/or ethnic region from adjoining areas, it does.
The chief problem with London succeeding from the UK is that virtually everyone who works there would have to live (and probably park) in what's still the UK. It would be like the District of Columbia succeeding from the US: Everybody who works there lives somewhere else, so it ends up being that virtually all your laborers live in a different country. Or that little spit of Washington where everyone has to do their shopping in Canada.
I still don't understand that you need to be a country to secede from a country. If you're already a country, why are you in another country? London is a distinct political (as you can see by the Brexit votes) and geographical region. It produces 22% of the UK's GDP yet only 7% or so of taxes paid in London go to Londoners.
With a $625 billion GDP and 8.6 mil residents, London itself has about the population and GDP of Sweden.
There is precedent for city-states in Europe. London is 1,570 km^2.
Andorra is 468 km^2
Liechtenstein is 160 km^2
Malta is 316 km^2
Monaco is 2 km^2
San Marino is 61 km^2
Vatican City is about 1/2 km^2
While only Malta is a member of the EU, the others more closely resemble what London would be - a small city state surrounded by a country/countries that do not have the same allegiance to the EU.
An interesting narrative from clearly a leftist, and likely a Muslim. Of particular note is the fact that she seems to be trying to ostracize the Leavers for not being open about their votes and identifying themselves (through social media, town meetings, etc.). Ignoring the fact that true democracy is supposed to respect privacy, I can't see any reason that voters would need to openly report their votes, except for the purpose of retaliation (which she passive-aggressively, but clearly hints at).
Additionally, the Leave voters were in the majority, so the perception of "shaming" them is ironic, as a minority cannot shame a majority for taking the opposite side of a clearly defined issue. This gives a great insight into the minds of leftists, who, even after a loss and becoming the minority, believe that the majority of people still believe like them and attempt to ostracize anyone who does not.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/welcome-to-brexit-britain---a-nation-of-secret-leave-voters-too/?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf29563682
Outlander Systems
06-24-16, 11:31
I fully expect two years of dirty tricks, media bullshit/propaganda, fear-porn peddling etc.
Brittain, alone, had a ****ing EMPIRE.
They'll be just fine, mmmkay?
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 11:57
I still don't understand that you need to be a country to secede from a country. If you're already a country, why are you in another country? London is a distinct political (as you can see by the Brexit votes) and geographical region. It produces 22% of the UK's GDP yet only 7% or so of taxes paid in London go to Londoners.
Up until about 25 years ago, Ukraine and Georgia (and Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, &c.) were countries within another country - first the Russian Empire, then the Soviet Union.
Today, Texas and Virginia (and California and Alaska and Hawaii and...) are countries in the United States, while Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and England are countries in the United Kingdom. And Russia has Chechnya, Dagestan, and Siberia (among others). Germany chiefly has Bavaria and Prussia. The Czech Republic constitutes two countries, Bohemia (or Czechia) and Moravia. Modern China is probably five or six distinct countries (that use the same written language).
Why do these countries exist within other countries? Mutual security, economic benefit, shared cultural heritage. In many ways, countries like the US, Russia, UK, China, Germany basically simply exist at a highly centralized end of the national union spectrum, with the UN, NATO, and EU on the more decentralized end of the spectrum.
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 12:08
An interesting narrative from clearly a leftist, and likely a Muslim. Of particular note is the fact that she seems to be trying to ostracize the Leavers for not being open about their votes and identifying themselves (through social media, town meetings, etc.). Ignoring the fact that true democracy is supposed to respect privacy, I can't see any reason that voters would need to openly report their votes, except for the purpose of retaliation (which she passive-aggressively, but clearly hints at).
Additionally, the Leave voters were in the majority, so the perception of "shaming" them is ironic, as a minority cannot shame a majority for taking the opposite side of a clearly defined issue. This gives a great insight into the minds of leftists, who, even after a loss and becoming the minority, believe that the majority of people still believe like them and attempt to ostracize anyone who does not.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/welcome-to-brexit-britain---a-nation-of-secret-leave-voters-too/?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf29563682
That's not what I'm getting from the article.
What I'm getting is that the author thinks that it's a shame that people do not feel they can be honest and open with their more conservative political views for fear of being shamed, insulted, and derided as uneducated, racist simpletons. (If you have any pro-gun liberal friends, they'll know exactly what that's like, as they won't be able to talk about their views on gun control with their anti-gun liberal friends for fear of being called an idiot, a murderer, or whatever.)
And the author is probably Hindu or Christian (or agnostic) - the name is pretty definitely Indian, although I would naturally yield to anyone who has more experience in the UK and/or India/Pakistan. My guess is a second or third generation Brit whose ancestors came to the UK when the UK folded up shop and left India and Pakistan.
SomeOtherGuy
06-24-16, 12:12
Additionally, the Leave voters were in the majority, so the perception of "shaming" them is ironic, as a minority cannot shame a majority for taking the opposite side of a clearly defined issue. This gives a great insight into the minds of leftists, who, even after a loss and becoming the minority, believe that the majority of people still believe like them and attempt to ostracize anyone who does not.
Yeah, there are few people more arrogant and self-righteous than a leftist or SJW blathering about an issue. The last two weeks have been an interesting time to see which of my facebook "friends" are leftists, and among those, which of them simply hold the views and which of them are wannabe dictators.
There is a theory of generational change and "Fourth Turnings" (every 80 years or so, with prior ones including WW2 and the US civil war), and by that theory we are about halfway into a "Fourth Turning" and it's going to heat up greatly from this point onward.
That's not what I'm getting from the article.
What I'm getting is that the author thinks that it's a shame that people do not feel they can be honest and open with their more conservative political views for fear of being shamed, insulted, and derided as uneducated, racist simpletons. (If you have any pro-gun liberal friends, they'll know exactly what that's like, as they won't be able to talk about their views on gun control with their anti-gun liberal friends for fear of being called an idiot, a murderer, or whatever.)
And the author is probably Hindu or Christian (or agnostic) - the name is pretty definitely Indian, although I would naturally yield to anyone who has more experience in the UK and/or India/Pakistan. My guess is a second or third generation Brit whose ancestors came to the UK when the UK folded up shop and left India and Pakistan.
I see your point, and re-read it with that in mind. I guess what skews it for me is the title, and the repeated implication of racism and isolationism without much evidence to the contrary. Take, for example, the title:
Welcome to Brexit Britain - a nation of secret Leave voters too afraid to own up
"Too afraid to own up" - The title implies that the those who voted are 1) afraid and 2) would have to "own up," as if the burden lies on them. If the author was concerned in portraying it neutrally, there were several other ways to word it:
"Welcome to Brexit Britain - the unexpected vote"
"Welcome to Brexit Britain - anonymous voters decide Britain's fate"
"Welcome to Brexit Britain - Britons speak silently with their votes"
Anyways, appreciate your input.
Its weird calling places like Texas and Hawaii a "country". Idk.
London seceding? I've never heard of anything more ridiculous. Never going to happen, not in a million years.
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 12:38
I see your point, and re-read it with that in mind. I guess what skews it for me is the title, and the repeated implication of racism and isolationism without much evidence to the contrary. Take, for example, the title:
"Too afraid to own up" - The title implies that the those who voted are 1) afraid and 2) would have to "own up," as if the burden lies on them. If the author was concerned in portraying it neutrally, there were several other ways to word it:
"Welcome to Brexit Britain - the unexpected vote"
"Welcome to Brexit Britain - anonymous voters decide Britain's fate"
"Welcome to Brexit Britain - Britons speak silently with their votes"
Anyways, appreciate your input.
I agree that the title is inflammatory.
However, I would posit that, as Britain is a country where the newspapers are virtually all tabloids (including the Telegraph), that the title is intended to function as click-bait. It is also possible that the author did not write the title, but that her editor did, with the intention to draw eyeballs to their website (and therefore drive up page visits and therefore increase advertising revenue).
The inflammatory nature of the title combined with the article's, "Isn't it a shame we can't have an honest discussion about this," content may be especially intended to draw the eyeballs of that 51.7% (or whatever) of UK voters who voted to leave - who might be afraid that they would be shamed, who would be angered by an article that appears to call them cowards, only to show up and find an article that they might agree with - and therefore potentially enhance the Telegraph's readership among Brexiters.
Outlander Systems
06-24-16, 12:44
Republic of Texas. Kingdom of Hawaii.
It's a thing.
Its weird calling places like Texas and Hawaii a "country". Idk.
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 12:58
Its weird calling places like Texas and Hawaii a "country". Idk.
United States of America. Could just as readily call it the United Nations of America.
A country is simply that - a geographic chunk of land. It's country, it's a country. Nation implies a shared ethnic background - the word shares the same root as natal (as in pre-natal care). Only a state is by definition sovereign. Countries may exist within nations and nations may exist within countries and both countries and nations may exist within a state, but states do not exist within countries or nations. At least not historically. (I suppose the argument could be made that Sparta was a city-state within the country of Laconia - although I don't think anybody could even begin to pretend that Laconia wasn't ruled by the Spartans and while the Spartans might pretend that Laconians (slaves) and Spartans (free men and women) were of different nations, that's getting really pedantic. While all Spartans were Laconians, not all Laconians were Spartans, either way the Spartans of the city-state effectively ruled the country of Laconia.)
Today, with the intranational definition of 'state' in the US being a political subdivision of the United States, we tend to use nation and country interchangeably while state is largely relegated to the American political organization. This has carried over into the rest of the English language, although we still use 'nation' and 'state' for specific purposes in the study of history - such as nation-state and city-state - and the United States government still includes the Department of State, which manages the relations of these United States with the other states of the world.
The handy thing about both of the states you chose is that both Texas and Hawaii (or Hawai'i) were independent countries (or sovereign states) before they were annexed by the US.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/images39.jpg
Moose-Knuckle
06-24-16, 13:06
Its weird calling places like Texas and Hawaii a "country". Idk.
No it's not, I'm all for leaving and being an independent Republic . . . again.
United States of America. Could just as readily call it the United Nations of America.
A country is simply that - a geographic chunk of land. It's country, it's a country. Nation implies a shared ethnic background - the word shares the same root as natal (as in pre-natal care). Only a state is by definition sovereign. Countries may exist within nations and nations may exist within countries and both countries and nations may exist within a state, but states do not exist within countries or nations. At least not historically.
Today, with the intranational definition of 'state' in the US being a political subdivision of the United States, we tend to use nation and country interchangeably while state is largely relegated to the American political organization. This has carried over into the rest of the English language, although we still use 'nation' and 'state' for specific purposes in the study of history - such as nation-state and city-state - and the United States government still includes the Department of State, which manages the relations of these United States with the other states of the world.
The handy thing about both of the states you chose is that both Texas and Hawaii (or Hawai'i) were independent countries (or sovereign states) before they were annexed by the US.
I think the idea of the USA being comprised of a set of 50 or so nations died in 1865.
That's not what I'm getting from the article.
What I'm getting is that the author thinks that it's a shame that people do not feel they can be honest and open with their more conservative political views for fear of being shamed, insulted, and derided as uneducated, racist simpletons. (If you have any pro-gun liberal friends, they'll know exactly what that's like, as they won't be able to talk about their views on gun control with their anti-gun liberal friends for fear of being called an idiot, a murderer, or whatever.)
And the author is probably Hindu or Christian (or agnostic) - the name is pretty definitely Indian, although I would naturally yield to anyone who has more experience in the UK and/or India/Pakistan. My guess is a second or third generation Brit whose ancestors came to the UK when the UK folded up shop and left India and Pakistan.
Huh, that's weird. I got the same impression. We must have read it wrong...
No it's not, I'm all for leaving and being an independent Republic . . . again.
If Texas decides to break away, I'm packing my bags :-)
Looks like Scotlands uberLeft have the same answer our Liberals have. If you don't get your way, just vote again until you do.. Although I think we call that second vote the SCOTUS now days.
wildcard600
06-24-16, 13:25
If Texas decides to break away, I'm packing my bags :-)
It would be tempting in the case of Texas, but if Vermont decided to do so and become its own country again I would definately return.
That's not what I'm getting from the article.
What I'm getting is that the author thinks that it's a shame that people do not feel they can be honest and open with their more conservative political views for fear of being shamed, insulted, and derided as uneducated, racist simpletons. (If you have any pro-gun liberal friends, they'll know exactly what that's like, as they won't be able to talk about their views on gun control with their anti-gun liberal friends for fear of being called an idiot, a murderer, or whatever.)
And the author is probably Hindu or Christian (or agnostic) - the name is pretty definitely Indian, although I would naturally yield to anyone who has more experience in the UK and/or India/Pakistan. My guess is a second or third generation Brit whose ancestors came to the UK when the UK folded up shop and left India and Pakistan.
Yeah I'm not seeing it the OP's way either. Completely 180 degrees.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 13:37
I think the idea of the USA being comprised of a set of 50 or so nations died in 1865.
The Kingdom of Hawai'i wasn't annexed until 1898.
:P
I don't think it's particularly likely for anyone to peacefully breakaway from the US, though. It might be possible, though, thanks to Woodrow Wilson, the UN, and "self-determination".
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 13:51
Yes, cause they desperately needed the cash base.
Question is what can the EU do? They need the cash and the only stable currency within the EU. Are they willing to invade again? Doubtful. Are the willing to embargo the Brits? Maybe, but then how will they get $$. They embargo and try to rough house the Brits and maybe the Brits forget to send their taxes in. Then what?
IMO the Brits ware now in the drivers seat. They have a stable currency. It may free fall for a bit but NOBODY will take a pass on reinvesting in the Brits once the market reaches a known level. Too much $$ to be made. Even good ole Georgie boy will be back. So they have 2 years worth of this will hurt you more than us. The value of that threat may increase if Trump wins in November.
Britain is not the primary drivers of cash flow in the EU, Germany is. Yes, they had a surplus before this vote, but now the pound has cratered to a 31 year low! If the price holds they will have the 4th worse deficit of all members. Only Spain, Greece and Portugal being worse off. They are not in the drivers seat anymore, they are now a liability for the EU.
The South will rise again!!!
But seriously....I think France is gonna be next.
I can see why. People chumped on them too long and now I can see them getting better guns and erecting guillotines.
See...people think Europe is this easy place. No. They've always been fighting or killing off someone.
Like America, all these nasty ass people acting like it's easy.
If people here really wanted gun control then gun sales wouldn't be on the rise.
People think everyone here is some skinny jean wearing hippie. Newp.
Never, ever confuse a people for its government.
Britain is not the primary drivers of cash flow in the EU, Germany is. Yes, they had a surplus before this vote, but now the pound has cratered to a 31 year low! If the price holds they will have the 4th worse deficit of all members. Only Spain, Greece and Portugal being worse off. They are not in the drivers seat anymore, they are now a liability for the EU.
Germany; a country whose bonds were in negative numbers is not in the drivers seat economically. If Germany is truly the economic powerhouse of the EU then BREXIT shouldn't mean that much as Germany could just make up the lost revenue while watching England crumple and slowly starve. So why are her panties in such a bunch??
Business_Casual
06-24-16, 15:37
Britain is not the primary drivers of cash flow in the EU, Germany is. Yes, they had a surplus before this vote, but now the pound has cratered to a 31 year low! If the price holds they will have the 4th worse deficit of all members. Only Spain, Greece and Portugal being worse off. They are not in the drivers seat anymore, they are now a liability for the EU.
How exactly are you arriving at the deficit figure?
I am all a tingle at the prospect of Grexit and someone explaining how Greece no longer borrowing money to pay back loans is a bad thing that will cause economic turmoil.
ETA...
The title doesn't change my mind, but I can certainly see where it could be interpreted the way Skyyyr saw it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Kingdom of Hawai'i wasn't annexed until 1898.
:P
I don't think it's particularly likely for anyone to peacefully breakaway from the US, though. It might be possible, though, thanks to Woodrow Wilson, the UN, and "self-determination".
50 or so :p
Speaking of which, Texit is a thing now. Texans, emboldened by Brexit, have decided to rename their movement "Texit". Cause branding is everything. Apparently.
http://www.fox4news.com/trending/165298387-story
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-usa-secession-idUSKCN0ZA3F4
Straight Shooter
06-24-16, 16:14
Whut?
This was all about fear on both sides. Fear of migrants on one side and Fear of being isolated from trade on the other.
It will take Britain 20-25 year to fully recover from this, their trade position is severely impacted now. They have no trade partners with their immediate neighbors or with the US now, this will drive them further to embracing China.
Whut What? The isn't a "fear" of migrants..it is a reality! They are destroyers of societies and countries. The bullshit put out by the Remains was just that-BULLSHIT. SO WHAT the puppet-stringed markets dropped? Im not a lover of money, Ill take all the freedom and independence I can get, all day, everyday. The Remains had people thinking the fvckin sky would hit the ground if the voted Leave. Master puppeteer Soros led the way with his New World Order demonic ass.
All this market stuff was orchestrated & engineered to happen. The powers that be simply wont allow it to go long, certainly nowhere near the length of time you stated. And what do you think, trade between EU & the rest will simply stop? I don't think so, at all.
As for them "further embracing China"...we went thru that here, and it bit us in the ass with ill-made, dangerous & deadly shoddy products that finally many tired of. I don't know if that will or wont happen, but I end with this..freedom, in the era we live in, has a price. It has a price paid in blood by our militaries, and there will always be/always has been a financial price. So be it.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 16:27
Whut What? The isn't a "fear" of migrants..it is a reality! They are destroyers of societies and countries. The bullshit put out by the Remains was just that-BULLSHIT. SO WHAT the puppet-stringed markets dropped? Im not a lover of money, Ill take all the freedom and independence I can get, all day, everyday. The Remains had people thinking the fvckin sky would hit the ground if the voted Leave. Master puppeteer Soros led the way with his New World Order demonic ass.
All this market stuff was orchestrated & engineered to happen. The powers that be simply wont allow it to go long, certainly nowhere near the length of time you stated. And what do you think, trade between EU & the rest will simply stop? I don't think so, at all.
As for them "further embracing China"...we went thru that here, and it bit us in the ass with ill-made, dangerous & deadly shoddy products that finally many tired of. I don't know if that will or wont happen, but I end with this..freedom, in the era we live in, has a price. It has a price paid in blood by our militaries, and there will always be/always has been a financial price. So be it.
If they can't negotiate article 50, ya they have no trade partners in the EU or the US. As of today they went from being the 3rd most solvent EU member to being the 4th to last, the pound has cratered. They have 2 years to scratch out trade agreements, but now they have lost all leverage. The financial impact for them has rolled back the clock to the mid 1980's, not good. They have further issues now also, Ireland and few others are looking to walk away from Britain and submit the EU for membership.
Just look at our own markets, down 600 points and this will not even be the worst day. The 2nd day has historically been the bloodbath in uncertain times.
You say you have no love for money, this is not about that. This is going to touch off and increase in jobless figures in Britain that will dwarf the housing implosion.
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 16:37
If they can't negotiate article 50, ya they have no trade partners in the EU. As of today they went from being the 3rd most solvent EU member to being the 4th to last now that the pound has cratered. They have 2 years to scratch out trade agreements, but now they have lost all leverage.
Have they?
Did somebody blow up parliament while I wasn't paying attention? Maybe nuked London?
Because the economic bones of Great Britain haven't been impaired or seriously damaged, not as far as I can tell. All that has happened is that some people changed some numbers to make things look bad.
The EU cannot torpedo the UK's economy without also scuttling their own. Maybe in two years, that will change, but not tomorrow.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 16:38
Germany; a country whose bonds were in negative numbers is not in the drivers seat economically. If Germany is truly the economic powerhouse of the EU then BREXIT shouldn't mean that much as Germany could just make up the lost revenue while watching England crumple and slowly starve. So why are her panties in such a bunch??
It is based on the EU budget, Germany contributes more than any other member. They also own the most debt of the other members.
You don't just make up 17% of your budget loss with Britons exit by adding in more money while heavily leveraged in Greece, Italy and France.... This could over extend all the other members trying to make up for the lost Britain contribution.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 16:47
Have they?
Did somebody blow up parliament while I wasn't paying attention? Maybe nuked London?
Because the economic bones of Great Britain haven't been impaired or seriously damaged, not as far as I can tell. All that has happened is that some people changed some numbers to make things look bad.
The EU cannot torpedo the UK's economy without also scuttling their own. Maybe in two years, that will change, but not tomorrow.
The EU is not doing anything, Britain is doing this to themselves. Their domestic currency is crashing, that is not just moving numbers. That is investors selling it off as fast as possible. Bank of England will have to go beg to HM Treasury for cash to shore up the pound in an effort to keep it from completely imploding.
Business_Casual
06-24-16, 16:59
Bank of England will have to go beg to HM Treasury for cash to shore up the pound in an effort to keep it from completely imploding.
Um, that's not how it works, bruv.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 17:04
Um, that's not how it works, bruv.
HM Treasury control public spending, The Bank of England is already asking them to suspend some rules on rates to bring to bare their cash to prop up the pound. So they are infact begging the HM Treasury for their own money.
Edit: Hitting the wire now, Bank of England working with HM Treasury requesting policy revisions so they can reduce interest and in exchange pledge an additional 250 Billion pounds to prop up the pound.
MountainRaven
06-24-16, 18:18
NPR is reporting that German and French stock markets took a harder kick in the shorts than the UK.
Here's what I see. Today, a large number of useful idiots evaporated some 6 TRILLION Dollars (or Pounds if you prefer), because a bunch of people on a sovereign island didn't want decisions about their socioeconomic future made in the middle of a continent they happen to share an ocean with. That's just what you see on the surface though. Under the surface, a cabal of uber-rich oligarchs who favor globalism for the robber baron benefits that globalism provides, shorted a country and destroyed lives so they could make a few billion more dollars than usual in a single day.
Meanwhile, as I sit here watching CBS Nightly Propaganda, I'm seeing the other group of useful idiots telling me that nationalism is racist, xenophobic stupid and the purview of uneducated old people who are poor and uneducated. Did I mention they're old and uneducated? And poor? I'm not sure when the Oligarchs R Us armored truck will arrive at the MegaNewsCorp headquarters with their cut of the bloodbath pie, but I'm sure they already have drops scheduled.
Meanwhile I didn't buy a Range Rover this month, so I'm conflicted on whether I lucked out that my residual value didn't plummet several thousand more dollars in a single day, or whether I'm missing out on how much cheaper I could repair a failure prone Range Rover tomorrow than yesterday? I guess I'll have to resign myself to pondering that conundrum over a tumbler of some of Kentucky's finest spirits tonight. Regardless of the global wealth redistribution today, there are still a few benefits to thinking globally, but drinking locally. Cheers! :cool:
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 19:15
NPR is reporting that German and French stock markets took a harder kick in the shorts than the UK.
Not really about the markets for Britain, the issue is currency.
The Euro is stable and the pound has taken a serious hit. Exchange rate for GBP to euro is in the toilet.
It is based on the EU budget, Germany contributes more than any other member. They also own the most debt of the other members.
You don't just make up 17% of your budget loss with Britons exit by adding in more money while heavily leveraged in Greece, Italy and France.... This could over extend all the other members trying to make up for the lost Britain contribution.
So how does that make Germany the power house driver of the EU economy? Germany and the EU are leveraged and in desperate need for someone else to fleece to pay for their shitty policies. England decided that they weren't going to be it and threatened to take another 17% out of play potentially making the Germans and the EU even more leveraged. So who needs who in this situation. They have 2 years to negotiate terms and figure out how things will go. It may come to pass that GB doesnt leave but gets better terms at the table and this was a big negotiation bluff. England wont free fall for ever. Short term maybe, but in the end greed will win. Wallstreet and Soros and Buffet have their thresholds and once GB investments reach them they will buy buy buy like crazy.
Digital_Damage
06-24-16, 19:32
So how does that make Germany the power house driver of the EU economy? Germany and the EU are leveraged and in desperate need for someone else to fleece to pay for their shitty policies. England decided that they weren't going to be it and threatened to take another 17% out of play potentially making the Germans and the EU even more leveraged. So who needs who in this situation. They have 2 years to negotiate terms and figure out how things will go. It may come to pass that GB doesnt leave but gets better terms at the table and this was a big negotiation bluff. England wont free fall for ever. Short term maybe, but in the end greed will win. Wallstreet and Soros and Buffet have their thresholds and once GB investments reach them they will buy buy buy like crazy.
Because Germany has the financial leverage to dictate terms... that is the whole reason Britain is leaving. If Britain wants to trade with the EU, they have to appease Germany. EU can live on without Britain, they will require greater contributions from all its members or make adjustments to the operating and social budgets. They will not poor more money in. IF a few more leave, then they have a problem. However, it already appears North Ireland and Scotland is going to walk away from Great Britain and join the EU. Britain my not survive without the EU, if the EU dictates terms to the US over trade negotiations it get even more complicated. England could be on their own soon.
Investing in GB markets is not going to work if the pound is not worth anything.
Investing in GB markets is not going to work if the pound is not worth anything.
It makes buying in less expensive using US$, but risky nonetheless until things get sorted out.
There is a theory of generational change and "Fourth Turnings" (every 80 years or so, with prior ones including WW2 and the US civil war), and by that theory we are about halfway into a "Fourth Turning" and it's going to heat up greatly from this point onward.
Yes, it's some very interesting stuff.
https://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/insight-overview.html
The EU was originally about expediting duty free money moving. Now it's every other country living out of someone else's pockets and playing hot potato with the entirety of the Hijra.
No matter how they vote, they have two years of "negotiation".
It won't be like the next Ft. Sumter nor will the Queen take control and declare Imperial Sovereignty or anything.
Nah... Look up the following to see where the concept came from:
Europäische Wirtschaftsgemeinschaft
Surprise!!!
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
For what's it's worth.... the Telegraph is a Right leaning paper. Possibly the most Right. So it would stand to reason Fjallhrafn is correct.
When I read that article, I would say a parallel here in America aside from immigration is the potential for the "Republican" Party to see an influx of the Gay community. It's not so much that everyone sees eye to eye, but rather, perhaps now is the time. Perhaps now is the time to join forces and actually be free.
The true Liberals are silently beside themselves. I can sense it in their silence and carefully chosen words. American Liberals see this as a foreshadowing of everything Trump has been pushing towards. Toss in Orlando.... then toss in the fact that Brits are breaking from the similar chains that we broke from them on. ... and that Trump is pro Brexit..
The people are saying enough is enough.
Skyyr, I think you have experienced a bit of British dry wit in that article.
Because Germany has the financial leverage to dictate terms... that is the whole reason Britain is leaving. If Britain wants to trade with the EU, they have to appease Germany. EU can live on without Britain, they will require greater contributions from all its members or make adjustments to the operating and social budgets. They will not poor more money in. IF a few more leave, then they have a problem. However, it already appears North Ireland and Scotland is going to walk away from Great Britain and join the EU. Britain my not survive without the EU, if the EU dictates terms to the US over trade negotiations it get even more complicated. England could be on their own soon.
Investing in GB markets is not going to work if the pound is not worth anything.
You make it very much sound like Germany is using the EU to force Great Britain into its own Weimar Republic. Either pay to prop up Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. so we can continue being their loan shark and keep them on the hook, or we'll starve you out and bankrupt you.
I don't know if you realize it or not, but that would be grounds for dissolving NATO and quite possibly the start of a hot war. Germany is engaging in economic brinkmanship and rigging another country's currency. They've already lost two World Wars. They might want to reconsider this reckless course they're on. :(
sandsunsurf
06-24-16, 23:23
Who would be their trade partners? The EU members are certain to rebuff any agreement for a long time, US will certainly not take a risk with the bloodbath we will see and instability. The only options are China and Russia...
I am interested in your personal stake in Brexit. You definitely have a personal bias against it, and your opinions taint your predicted "facts." I don't know a ton, but I know enough to say that the EU and the US will promptly make trade agreements with the UK. Both Obama and Trump have even said we will. All in all, I say good for the Britons, and it may be rough for a bit, but I completely agree with them wanting to have a say in their own country's future, and keep the politicians half a continent away out of their future.
Unrelated to DD's quote, I want to share a good story from a liberal rag, The Atlantic.
Why Britain Left - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/06/brexit-eu/488597/
I am interested in your personal stake in Brexit. You definitely have a personal bias against it, and your opinions taint your predicted "facts." I don't know a ton, but I know enough to say that the EU and the US will promptly make trade agreements with the UK. Both Obama and Trump have even said we will. All in all, I say good for the Britons, and it may be rough for a bit, but I completely agree with them wanting to have a say in their own country's future, and keep the politicians half a continent away out of their future.
Unrelated to DD's quote, I want to share a good story from a liberal rag, The Atlantic.
Why Britain Left - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/06/brexit-eu/488597/
Obama tried to use a soft threat against the Brexit movement back in April, saying the US would prioritize trade agreements with the EU over GB. The globalist oligarchs have tried to keep their leaky EU boat afloat as long as possible, but now that its sinking, don't expect them to get stuck with the cleanup bill. The little people will pay for it all and they're going to come out smelling like more money than God.
Moose-Knuckle
06-25-16, 04:14
This is about National Sovereignty not economics.
This was an affront to the globalist agenda, the implications are as deep as they are wide. Perhaps we are finally beginning to see an awakening.
All one has to do is look at who opposes it and how they are slandering the Brits for it.
Brexit = ‘Fear, Xenophobia, Racism,’ ‘Threatens Western Civilization’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2016/06/24/nbc-freak-out-brexit-fear-xenophobia-racism-threatens-western
Brexit is one of the first steps in saving Western Civilization, I hope the fire catches and spreads like a storm through Europe and the US.
This is about National Sovereignty not economics.
This was an affront to the globalist agenda, the implications are as deep as they are wide. Perhaps we are finally beginning to see an awakening.
All one has to do is look at who opposes it and how they are slandering the Brits for it.
Brexit = ‘Fear, Xenophobia, Racism,’ ‘Threatens Western Civilization’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2016/06/24/nbc-freak-out-brexit-fear-xenophobia-racism-threatens-western
Brexit is one of the first steps in saving Western Civilization, I hope the fire catches and spreads like a storm through Europe and the US.
This is how I see it. It was an affront to the Obama and Soros New World Order. Thank you Britain for leading the way out of this horrible Dark Age that has afflicted us all. Now we must get Obama out of office and put him and Michelle in our rear view mirror.
The fact that it will cause them economic issues is proof that they needed to get out. It was a mistake for them to allow themselves to get so intertwined with this union, and to cede so much sovereignty.
Business_Casual
06-25-16, 07:00
Obama tried to use a soft threat against the Brexit movement back in April, saying the US would prioritize trade agreements with the EU over GB. The globalist oligarchs have tried to keep their leaky EU boat afloat as long as possible, but now that its sinking, don't expect them to get stuck with the cleanup bill. The little people will pay for it all and they're going to come out smelling like more money than God.
LOL, I heard a great quote yesterday, something along the lines of: "When things go right, bankers make a shit ton of money and fly around the world on private jets. When things go wrong, taxpayers bail out the bankers who keep flying around the world on private jets." I think you've sussed it.
Oh, and Digital Damage - what's the value of the Pound today, out of interest?
Straight Shooter
06-25-16, 07:07
http://usawatchdog.com/special-report...
About the best explanation of what happened, the real reasons for it, and whats coming next.
Obama then:
“I figured you might want to hear from the president of the United States what I think the United States is going to do,” Obama said during a press conference Obama with Cameron in London.
If the United Kingdom left the European Union, he suggested that there would likely be a new trade agreement with them, but warned that “it’s not going to happen anytime soon.”
“Our focus is in negotiating with a big block of the European Union to get a trade agreement done, and UK is going to be in the back of the queue,” he said. He added that U.S. negotiation with a “big market” of the European Union would help trade negotiations go smoother.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/22/obama-threatens-united-kingdom-trade-leave-european-union/
Obama now:
Though he opposed calls for a British withdrawal from the European Union, President Obama said Friday the United States respects the voters' decision for a "Brexit" and the referendum will have little effect on relations with either the United Kingdom or the EU.
"Our shared values — including our commitment to democracy and pluralism and opportunity for all people in a globalized world — that will continue to unite all of us," Obama said in opening a Global Entrepreneurship Summit at Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif.
The president said he spoke by phone with outgoing British Prime Minister David Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel about how to manage the transition as the United Kingdom exits the EU.
In a written statement issued earlier, Obama said "the special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom is enduring, and the United Kingdom’s membership in NATO remains a vital cornerstone of U.S. foreign, security, and economic policy."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/24/obama-we-respect-uks-decision-brexit/86329452/
As usual, he is wrong, and as usual he won't be challenged or held accountable.
Digital_Damage
06-25-16, 08:00
LOL, I heard a great quote yesterday, something along the lines of: "When things go right, bankers make a shit ton of money and fly around the world on private jets. When things go wrong, taxpayers bail out the bankers who keep flying around the world on private jets." I think you've sussed it.
Oh, and Digital Damage - what's the value of the Pound today, out of interest?
31 year low, last I looked 1.36 Down from 1.57 when news of the ref was going to happen. Biggest loss was after the vote down 8%.
Digital_Damage
06-25-16, 08:01
http://usawatchdog.com/special-report...
About the best explanation of what happened, the real reasons for it, and whats coming next.
LOL!....
their trade position is severely impacted now. They have no trade partners with their immediate neighbors or with the US now.
You do realize nothing has changed yet, and won't for a bit. They traded with Europe before the EU and will after this change takes place. Same for our trade with the UK, as well as the rest of the Commonwealth.
My guess is we could see a loss of up to 6%, everyone is going to loose at least the last 12 months of gains their 401k took in.
Just silly market nervousness and over reaction. I currently work for a large international firm that will be largely unimpacted by this directly, and any indirect impacts due to trade changes are months (years) out. Yet our stock went down with the sell off despite no change in fundamentals.
Obama then:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/04/22/obama-threatens-united-kingdom-trade-leave-european-union/
Obama now:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/24/obama-we-respect-uks-decision-brexit/86329452/
As usual, he is wrong, and as usual he won't be challenged or held accountable.
I'm so glad Obama is able to tell GB and the world that I'm for pluralism and uniting globally with the likes of radical Islam, institutionalized poverty, international oligarchs and some of the worst human pollution on the planet. And here I thought I was for America and excepionalism. :confused:
Britain is not the primary drivers of cash flow in the EU, Germany is. Yes, they had a surplus before this vote, but now the pound has cratered to a 31 year low! If the price holds they will have the 4th worse deficit of all members. Only Spain, Greece and Portugal being worse off. They are not in the drivers seat anymore, they are now a liability for the EU.
And yet we chide China for manipulating their currency lower to help their economy.
Short term, the UK will see a boost in exports and tourism, stronger local economy, and reduced foreign imports. All things the US would like to see in our economy.
everyone is going to loose at least the last 12 months of gains their 401k took in.
everyone? I didnt lose a single dime yesterday(except for taking that girl out on a date who didnt put out).
I MADE money yesterday. And no it wasnt because I shorted anything.
everyone? I didnt lose a single dime yesterday(except for taking that girl out on a date who didnt put out).
I MADE money yesterday. And no it wasnt because I shorted anything.
How did you do it?
How did you do it?
which part?
scare the girl off without getting laid? Thats a skill I have acquired over the years and cant really be taught.
The making money part? Not being in stocks. Ive been in a bond fund since March or so. I move between cash, s&P500 tracker, and a bond fund depending on what I see going on in the markets, world, politics, etc... I take a very broad look at things and have been a bit bearish for the last 18-24 months. So far its worked out ok.
With the current state of interest rates around the world, bonds should be able to make a little money. I dont see interest rates anywhere in the world going up any time soon(which would cause bond yields to drop). I really dont see the US Fed Reserve increasing interest rates this year after yesterday, although it wouldnt surprise me to see them actually decrease them back to zero. I dont think we will see negative rates like the EU has done, although a few months ago they signaled that it was in the play book, I am almost 100% certain if the US Fed introduced negative rates the drop we saw yesterday would be a "drop in the bucket" so to speak of what the US markets would do in reaction(I have a suspicion if they reduce to 0% from .25% the markets wont like that either).
Averageman
06-25-16, 10:28
everyone? I didnt lose a single dime yesterday(except for taking that girl out on a date who didnt put out).
I MADE money yesterday. And no it wasnt because I shorted anything.
I'm thinking if you lost 12 months worth of gains, you have your money in the hands of the wrong people.
How did you do it?
Having all of your $ invested in gold or silver would have done it.
Digital_Damage
06-25-16, 10:59
You do realize nothing has changed yet, and won't for a bit. They traded with Europe before the EU and will after this change takes place. Same for our trade with the UK, as well as the rest of the Commonwealth.
Just silly market nervousness and over reaction. I currently work for a large international firm that will be largely unimpacted by this directly, and any indirect impacts due to trade changes are months (years) out. Yet our stock went down with the sell off despite no change in fundamentals.
Fully understand article 50, they have two years to negotiate. That does not change the fact they have very little leverage in trade negotiations now.
Hardly an overreaction. No one knows what is going to happen, and until negotiations play out this will place a drag on the world markets.
Averageman
06-25-16, 11:02
Fully understand article 50, they have two years to negotiate. That does not change the fact they have very little leverage in trade negotiations now.
Hardly an overreaction. No one knows what is going to happen, and until negotiations play out this will place a drag on the world markets.
I do believe somewhere in the fine print yesterday the EU said they would negotiate to make the Two Year process work much faster, I'm guessing 10 to 18 months tops.
You know somewhere during the process of putting the EU together someone floated the idea of a EU Military. I'm guessing that had that been passed London might have woken up to some strange men from foreign countries patrolling their streets yesterday morning.
Digital_Damage
06-25-16, 11:05
I do believe somewhere in the fine print yesterday the EU said they would negotiate to make the Two Year process work much faster, I'm guessing 10 to 18 months tops.
That would be an interesting development, I would think they would drag the 2 years out unless the rumors about No Ireland and Scotland taking Britain's place are true.
Its looking like England will be on its own soon, much to the dismay of London.
Digital_Damage
06-25-16, 12:25
Moody's has cut Britain's credit rating outlook to "negative" moving out of prime.
Fitch and S&P reportedly will also downgrade.
Speculation is they will fall to "Lower medium grade" by the end of the month.
Averageman
06-25-16, 12:33
Moody's has cut Britain's credit rating outlook to "negative" moving out of prime.
Fitch and S&P reportedly will also downgrade.
Speculation is they will fall to "Lower medium grade" by the end of the month.
I'm just wondering if the Banks who own most of the EU debt wont take a little retribution out on them for cutting their losses and leaving?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/germany-france-lead-charge-for-britain-quick-divorce_us_576e8218e4b017b379f61d5d?ir=WorldPost§ion=us_world&utm_hp_ref=world
and France led demands on Saturday for Britain to negotiate a quick divorce from the European Union, with Paris warning that populism will otherwise take hold after the vote to leave the bloc sent shockwaves around the world.
The European Central Bank added to the pressure by saying Britain’s financial industry, which employs 2.2 million people, would lose the right to serve clients in the EU unless the country signed up to its single market - anathema to “leave” campaigners who are set to lead the next government in London.
“This process should get underway as soon as possible so that we are not left in limbo but rather can concentrate on the future of Europe,” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said after hosting a meeting of his colleagues from the six founding members of the EU - Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warned of the dangers of delay. “We have to give a new sense to Europe, otherwise populism will fill the gap,” he said.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault warned of the dangers of delay. “We have to give a new sense to Europe, otherwise populism will fill the gap,” he said.
As if that is a bad thing!
Averageman
06-25-16, 12:57
As if that is a bad thing!
It's so much harder to keep the Serf's in line when they have a bit of pride in themselves and their Country.
Moody's has cut Britain's credit rating outlook to "negative" moving out of prime.
Fitch and S&P reportedly will also downgrade.
Speculation is they will fall to "Lower medium grade" by the end of the month.
You keep acting like Britain is on the verge of becoming a third world country, when a third world country is what they were on the path to becoming when they were getting more than a half million uneducated refugees a year who have no intention to assimilate into their culture or values.
Money is great, but money alone will not sustain a cohesive society. :(
MountainRaven
06-25-16, 13:55
As if that is a bad thing!
Populism can be a bad thing, when populism leads to mob rule - something the French are very familiar with.
Digital_Damage
06-25-16, 14:15
Populism can be a bad thing, when populism leads to mob rule - something the French are very familiar with.
let them have cake.
Fully understand article 50, they have two years to negotiate. That does not change the fact they have very little leverage in trade negotiations now.
Hardly an overreaction. No one knows what is going to happen, and until negotiations play out this will place a drag on the world markets.
That's because markets are either nervous as a gaggle of geese or intentionally fearmonger to create movement in the market and thus opportunity.
My view:
In general, Imports are bad for countries, and exports are good.
With a weak pound, british goods will be very attractive. An efficient market will take advantage of that.
Let's say the EU get's punative... impose a 10% tarif. With the low pound the goods are still attractively priced. You think a euro supplier will buy higher priced goods just to make the EU happy?
Meanwhile, trade with Canada, Australia, S America, Africa, and even the US are likely to be uneffected. (Unless Hillary is elected and rams through something that will have a tough time passing)
Germany is the UK's largest partner, punitive tariffs could impact it, but with weak pound it may be a wash. US is the next largest.
Meanwhile, tourism is up, local goods consumption is up (expensive imports), and thus local employment goes up.
This is not a crash in the making unless people just get stupid, and even then it will be temporary.
Moody's has cut Britain's credit rating outlook to "negative" moving out of prime.
Fitch and S&P reportedly will also downgrade.
Speculation is they will fall to "Lower medium grade" by the end of the month.
So they cut the US rating a while back. What was the real impact? Interest rates are still effectively zero, it has zero impact on corporations or even the US capability to borrow money. Remember, other countries *want* to loan money (negative interest rates)
All the changes you are waving are paper changes that in a rational market would have zero impact, or at least minimal net impact.
I'm not saying their won't be histrionics, drama, wailing talking heads and pundits. Just remember how wrong they were about the exit vote itself.
Or even silly market gyrations. There will be people making money in those gyrations, I guarantee you. the ones not hyper focused on short term indicators who are missing the Forrest for the trees.
What many are also missing is that the EU had started to wade in on many non-market & immigration related items. telling the UK what they could and could not do on things most would consider domestic policy (crime, etc)
I'll propose an alternate scenario: The EU will rethink it's significant overreach in the areas of immigration and weak country bailouts, as they are at risk of losing other members.
With good reason... how long does it make sense to bail out a bankrupt country which is doing virtually nothing to get itself out of trouble? (Greece, others) Rank & file Germans are not happy about that, it goes against their culture. Nor were the UK, and even French.
One of the low countries has been polling 54-55% "leave" even prior to the UK exit.
But ultimately there is a simpler test, if Barry, Hillary, Bernie, Soros, Hollywood, EU, & Washington bureaucratic establishment are against this action, then my gut is that *long term*, it's the right thing to do.
Business_Casual
06-25-16, 14:46
Moody's has cut Britain's credit rating outlook to "negative" moving out of prime.
Fitch and S&P reportedly will also downgrade.
Of course they did, there is too much uncertainty right now - just as if you recently filed to get divorced and went to get mortgage. How would you explain your credit status absent a decree? You couldn't because you don't have it settled. A prudent banker wouldn't give you a platinum status for a loan. The bond raters have jobs to do just like everyone else and of course they downgraded when there is so much uncertainty.
"If you drop out of school, we'll suspend you!"
Eurodriver
06-25-16, 15:00
But ultimately there is a simpler test, if Barry, Hillary, Bernie, Soros, Hollywood, EU, & Washington bureaucratic establishment are against this action, then my gut is that *long term*, it's the right thing to do.
This is effectively how I make all of my voting/political choices.
Of course they did, there is too much uncertainty right now - just as if you recently filed to get divorced and went to get mortgage. How would you explain your credit status absent a decree? You couldn't because you don't have it settled. A prudent banker wouldn't give you a platinum status for a loan. The bond raters have jobs to do just like everyone else and of course they downgraded when there is so much uncertainty.
Central banking gamesmanship, that is all.
What has changed in the UK today vs last Monday that makes them a greater risk of paying back their loans? Tangible real world actions, not talking heads?
Very clearly, any UK corporation or even the UK itself that wanted to borrow money could get it at competitive interest rates. Remember, the UK borrows money by issuing bonds. Would you rather have a UK bond or an Italian one? Even Germany is into negative interest rate territory.
There is that much money looking for a home, I believe the UK won't have a bond problem.
Outlander Systems
06-25-16, 15:50
Not sure if serious.
Regardless, good policy. Basically anything those shit stains oppose means it's a net positive for free humanity.
This is effectively how I make all of my voting/political choices.
Business_Casual
06-25-16, 17:44
Central banking gamesmanship, that is all.
What has changed in the UK today vs last Monday that makes them a greater risk of paying back their loans? Tangible real world actions, not talking heads?
Very clearly, any UK corporation or even the UK itself that wanted to borrow money could get it at competitive interest rates. Remember, the UK borrows money by issuing bonds. Would you rather have a UK bond or an Italian one? Even Germany is into negative interest rate territory.
There is that much money looking for a home, I believe the UK won't have a bond problem.
OK, the rating agencies rate Central Banks, so I'm not sure where you get Central Banking Gamesmanship from. Also, negative interest rates are where you pay the bank to keep your money there. This is effectively saying that you are hedging the capital. The bonds are actually collateralizing future tax receipts, for instance you have the Central Bank issue you liquidity to pay your NHS salaries and buy petrol for your tanks, etc.
ForTehNguyen
06-25-16, 17:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZ9EIOQzXU
MountainRaven
06-25-16, 18:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZ9EIOQzXU
I stopped watching at, "Editor-at-large for infowars.com."
Eurodriver
06-25-16, 18:29
Yeah, and are we really supposed to sit and watch a 33 minute video without any synopsis of what's being discussed?
Eurodriver
06-25-16, 18:31
Not sure if serious.
Regardless, good policy. Basically anything those shit stains oppose means it's a net positive for free humanity.
I actually am pretty serious.
I was pretty not-give-a-shit-either-way about the 2016 election until I saw how much the people I hate dislike Trump.
Absorb as much information as you can - regardless of source - then make up your own mind...
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Outlander Systems
06-25-16, 18:47
He pisses off all the right people to affirm everything I suspected.
Real. Deal.
I actually am pretty serious.
I was pretty not-give-a-shit-either-way about the 2016 election until I saw how much the people I hate dislike Trump.
Eurodriver
06-25-16, 19:05
Eurodriver's lady friend tried talking some jibberish to me today. I asked her a very simple "Why are so many people hell bent on getting Syrian refugees into their countries? It almost seems like they stand to make a lot of money off of it or something. No one is that nice for strangers for no reason."
Her: "Well when young kids are being bombed left and right, its our obligation to help them and save their lives."
Me: "Well, how come every time I turn on the news I see middle aged men and no kids or women? And how come every time these middle aged men end up in the streets there are reports of violence and gang rapes?"
Her: "Made up stuff by the conservative media. They are Islam which is a religion of peace. And what happens is, I heard this on NPR, that when the men get to the EU they begin getting jobs and then the German government pays to fly their families in"
Me: "Wait a min, the Germany gov't is flying the families in of 800,000 refugees? Why are they taking in all these people!??"
Her: "Because its the first world's obligation to help people who need it."
Me: "Wouldn't a better situation be to spend a hell of a lot less money and deal with a hell of a lot less terrorism at home by simply killing whoever is causing all these refugees to flee in the first place?"
Her: "No, because killing is wrong. The best thing we can do is let these people in and educate them and keep them safe"
Guys, literally. I don't even know what to say. I could literally go on for like 30 minutes about the conversation we had. It was so incredibly unbelievable. I'm still blown away at how stupid some of these statements were. Another gem was "We can't kill all of the leaders because there are lots of bad guys in Syria and they will just pop up to replace the ones we killed." to which I asked, you know, if there's so many bad guys in these countries why are we bringing them here and she said "Because its our obligation to help them whether they are good or bad."
:suicide: I WISH on my life I was making this up guys. I wish I was...
He pisses off all the right people to affirm everything I suspected.
Real. Deal.
It's a pretty fail safe system. Not once have I heard a strong condemnation of Islamic radicals, Mexican drug cartels, poor family structures in ghetto communities, lack of personal responsiblity, etc etc out of those folks.
It really has gotten to the point where I can take any political issue in the entire world that I know nothing about, look to what Andrew Cuomo's position on the issue is and know for certain that the complete opposite is the side I want to take. It's not a personal thing either, that's just how far left people like that are.
platoonDaddy
06-25-16, 19:26
Brexit remorse? UK lawmaker calls for Parliament to ignore EU referendum as millions call for second vote
I have been seeing it as no 2nd vote just flat out overturn it
Brexit remorse? UK lawmaker calls for Parliament to ignore EU referendum as millions call for second vote
MountainRaven
06-25-16, 19:39
Apparently there is a petition going around for a second referendum - on account of the first having less than 75% participation - that has gotten some 2.3 million signatures.
But the PM said it was a once in a lifetime vote and the UK ambassador to the US was saying that he doesn't believe there will be a second referendum and the first one is going to stick.
wildcard600
06-25-16, 19:40
Eurodriver's lady friend tried talking some jibberish to me today. I asked her a very simple "Why are so many people hell bent on getting Syrian refugees into their countries? It almost seems like they stand to make a lot of money off of it or something. No one is that nice for strangers for no reason."
Her: "Well when young kids are being bombed left and right, its our obligation to help them and save their lives.".
/snip
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/unanything/images/4/4f/I-dont-always-slap-bitches-but-when-i-do-i-bitch-slap-them-to-kingdom-come.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140806013417
There is not very much we can really do other than vote, write congressmen, or stage a protest. Other than that...just sit back and chill is the unfortunate reality of this world.
A while back, I had a fling with a real die hard Democrat girl. She was a Commie-phile and loved the whole 'romance' of communism and the USSR.
Past a certain point, women bore me physically. So, I decided to have a spot of sadistic fun.
I decided that our night of adventure was to be spent volunteering at the rescue mission. Not a white face in sight, extraordinarily thankless, and not even on a big holiday.
I just told her cryptically to wear sneakers, jeans, t shirt, and little to no make up.
Yep, we went on a no shit soup kitchen jihad.
I got tired of her moping and mooring over black folks going to jail, how she knew black people in college, how nobody shoukld carry guns, and how 'unfair' everything was.
She lasted about 45 minutes before leaving in tears and wanting to get a cab or taxi. I bade her good night and stayed at the time I had given my word for staying.
She then "breaks up" with me via text, but I was bored of her anyways.
See....these people have all these good ideas about the world but want 'someone else' to do it. No guilt, no responsibility.
Me....I know that the world, invariably, is a godless place. A total hellhole where no one's actions really matter. There's only fun and not fun.
Some people I feel sorry for, some I don't, and most days I try not to feel or care either way.
I was not joking, my soul mate is some alien chick in bikini armor, 6'2" caucasian with green hair who only cares for hunting with primitive weapons, eating, mating, accruing weapons and perfecting her cooking.
Blunt, possibly standoffish, highly jealous, bitterly xenomisiac, and yet just a little old fashioned.
Because up til now, everyone has been too churchy, too democrat, too bougie, too short, too boring, and just....not fun.
I'm no chauvinist but I tire of the whole rigamarole of conversation, compromise, copulation bit.
I'd rather go shoot 30-06s, play ski ball, and eat like a pig on a day off. Meat with bone still affixed. And parents, preferably a crazed 'Nam vet dad or a mother who grew up in literally the midfle of nowhere.
Instead...yuppies. All have been yuppies. So yeah a bit of oversharing but if you can live with the "we are the world" bit, you are a far more patient man than I.
Guys, literally. I don't even know what to say. I could literally go on for like 30 minutes about the conversation we had. It was so incredibly unbelievable. I'm still blown away at how stupid some of these statements were. Another gem was "We can't kill all of the leaders because there are lots of bad guys in Syria and they will just pop up to replace the ones we killed." to which I asked, you know, if there's so many bad guys in these countries why are we bringing them here and she said "Because its our obligation to help them whether they are good or bad."
Euro, is this one of your squeezes? Did you **** her brains out? Because that is the only ****ing way I can see someone making those kinds of leaps of logic besides either some major drugs, or brainwashing, or all three combined.
militarymoron
06-25-16, 20:04
Brexit remorse? UK lawmaker calls for Parliament to ignore EU referendum as millions call for second vote
Remorse? Or just the ones who voted to stay making all the noise?
Remorse? Or just the ones who voted to stay making all the noise?
My money would be on the later. The left does tend to scream to high heavens and the lowest hells when they get their asses handed to them. They the leaders in the all are winners and no one should be distinguished, special, and all that bullshit unless it involving one of their corrupted commie bullshit ideals. I dropped kicked a guys dick in over that weekend at a shoot when he bitched about shooting shitty and it not being fair that he wouldn't be in the running for anything other than a thank you for coming.
OK, the rating agencies rate Central Banks, so I'm not sure where you get Central Banking Gamesmanship from. Also, negative interest rates are where you pay the bank to keep your money there. This is effectively saying that you are hedging the capital. The bonds are actually collateralizing future tax receipts, for instance you have the Central Bank issue you liquidity to pay your NHS salaries and buy petrol for your tanks, etc.
OK Banker/financial community madness then... what has changed beside pound exchange rate to justify lower ratings?
Is the UK more likely to default now? Debt ratio based on currency effects?
Why do central banks like Germany use negative interest rates? To prevent cash hoarding and thus stimulate the economy. They need the money out there. Same reason the US has been keeping essentially zero interest rates.
So how is German fiscal policy improved if the UK is penalized by low ratings and cheap pound? UK buys less German imports due to expensive euro relative to the pound. You think the UK will have problems issuing bonds? Or UK companies borrowing money?
Yet UK goods are now very cheap, even if they (DL) put trade barriers in place. German trade may suffer as much due to lost imports, UK was their largest partner. Germany going to make up the difference selling to Greece and Italy?
This whole financial overreaction is just stupid. Or calculated by folks wanting the market to move.
Brexit remorse? UK lawmaker calls for Parliament to ignore EU referendum as millions call for second vote
Sounds like the Austin, TX city council has managed to infiltrate the UK. Vote on the same topic over and over till you get the result you want. So what happens when the Brexit vote goes the way its supposed to. Cameron going to un-resign??
Outlander Systems
06-25-16, 20:43
Buy her a ticket to Saudi Arabia.
Give her a couple of weeks, and make her ass write an AAR.
Eurodriver's lady friend tried talking some jibberish to me today. I asked her a very simple "Why are so many people hell bent on getting Syrian refugees into their countries? It almost seems like they stand to make a lot of money off of it or something. No one is that nice for strangers for no reason."
Her: "Well when young kids are being bombed left and right, its our obligation to help them and save their lives."
Me: "Well, how come every time I turn on the news I see middle aged men and no kids or women? And how come every time these middle aged men end up in the streets there are reports of violence and gang rapes?"
Her: "Made up stuff by the conservative media. They are Islam which is a religion of peace. And what happens is, I heard this on NPR, that when the men get to the EU they begin getting jobs and then the German government pays to fly their families in"
Me: "Wait a min, the Germany gov't is flying the families in of 800,000 refugees? Why are they taking in all these people!??"
Her: "Because its the first world's obligation to help people who need it."
Me: "Wouldn't a better situation be to spend a hell of a lot less money and deal with a hell of a lot less terrorism at home by simply killing whoever is causing all these refugees to flee in the first place?"
Her: "No, because killing is wrong. The best thing we can do is let these people in and educate them and keep them safe"
Guys, literally. I don't even know what to say. I could literally go on for like 30 minutes about the conversation we had. It was so incredibly unbelievable. I'm still blown away at how stupid some of these statements were. Another gem was "We can't kill all of the leaders because there are lots of bad guys in Syria and they will just pop up to replace the ones we killed." to which I asked, you know, if there's so many bad guys in these countries why are we bringing them here and she said "Because its our obligation to help them whether they are good or bad."
:suicide: I WISH on my life I was making this up guys. I wish I was...
It's a pretty fail safe system. Not once have I heard a strong condemnation of Islamic radicals, Mexican drug cartels, poor family structures in ghetto communities, lack of personal responsiblity, etc etc out of those folks.
It really has gotten to the point where I can take any political issue in the entire world that I know nothing about, look to what Andrew Cuomo's position on the issue is and know for certain that the complete opposite is the side I want to take. It's not a personal thing either, that's just how far left people like that are.
Buy her a ticket to Saudi Arabia.
Give her a couple of weeks, and make her ass write an AAR.
She's not going to find any refugees is SA. They know those refugees are trouble and want nothing to do with them. As a matter of fact, none of the super rich Arab OPEC countries are taking any. Why should they, when a bunch of moronic, white guilt liberals will do it for them?
ColtSeavers
06-26-16, 00:43
Regarding this temper tantrum 'petition' to re-vote:
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o548/Revoliver6/TICOG2_zpsxemo57jl.jpg
Guys, literally. I don't even know what to say. I could literally go on for like 30 minutes about the conversation we had. It was so incredibly unbelievable.
To each his own, but I couldn't be around someone that stupid no matter how good their other attributes might be.
Business_Casual
06-26-16, 07:19
OK Banker/financial community madness then...
This whole financial overreaction is just stupid. Or calculated by folks wanting the market to move.
My thoughts exactly - why let a perfectly good crisis go to waste?
And now the Scottish Parliament is jumping in:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit
Averageman
06-26-16, 08:12
And now the Scottish Parliament is jumping in:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit
So Let's take our government back.
We will leave an unresponsive government that is thousands of miles away and has little accountability to the common Man.
We will have a democratic vote where each person who comes to vote, will have a chance to make a difference and express their opinion.
We as Voters take these issues seriously and demand accountability from our elected officials.
Ummmm, maybe, well... not so much, they didn't like that answer, lets try again.
Okay, here we go. So Lets take our government back.
Business_Casual
06-26-16, 08:29
And now the Scottish Parliament is jumping in:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit
The Scottish NHS (healthcare) and defense is supplied and/or paid for by the UK. They would have to negotiate a funding scheme with the EU. Which the EU will agree to, then after the first budget turn around and impose austerity on the Scots. So they will be double-screwed. Ha ha, as they say on the Simpsons.
ramairthree
06-26-16, 08:38
Buy her a ticket to Saudi Arabia.
Give her a couple of weeks, and make her ass write an AAR.
Doubt we would learn.
This republic might still be a republic except for women's suffrage.
Digital_Damage
06-26-16, 09:03
Remorse? Or just the ones who voted to stay making all the noise?
Looks like remorse, a ton of people that voted Leave are seriously pissed.
Apparently the leave campaign promised all the billions they send the EU will go immediately to Healthcare and Education subsidies (free). Now that people have found out that is not true they want a do over.
Digital_Damage
06-26-16, 09:08
It is odd the EU is pushing for an immediate negotiation to leave they want it in months instead of years. They must know something about Britain or they are gearing up to put the screws to them in trade.
The Scottish NHS (healthcare) and defense is supplied and/or paid for by the UK. They would have to negotiate a funding scheme with the EU. Which the EU will agree to, then after the first budget turn around and impose austerity on the Scots. So they will be double-screwed. Ha ha, as they say on the Simpsons.
Here's an intersting take on how Brexit/Scottish-UK split could affect US security re: North Atlantic anti-sub operations. It was before my time, but I did serve with cold war era sub guys that spent a great amount of time in the North Atlantic tracking Soviet maneuvers. They spent many, many months on station in the North Atlantic, and were able to do so by having access to Holy Loch (and Norway)for resupply. Without access to Holy Loch or the Norwegians, I think our sub fleet would have been stretched even thinner as the subs would have longer gaps in time & distance between on station ops and resupply runs. I'm betting the Scotts will, as mentioned above, find themselves scrambling for income if/when the UK and US are no longer paying for access to Holy Loch. I'm not sure how this will play out- if the US does intend to shift some of its Atlantic SSBN's to PacFleet then it seems reasonable to assume the void in deterent subs will be filled with UK SSBN's, but our attack subs will still need to resupply as close to the North Atlantic as possble. Unless another cold war with Russia develops, the Norwegians might not want to oblige. If the UK does intend to build up its domestic navy bases then I have no doubt the US will be more than happy to subsidize the effort, but will take time to overhaul/upgrade existing facitlities to support submarines. As for the impact on NATO, I have no idea what will happen in the long run.
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-brexit-challenges-us-security-16717?page=2
Digital_Damage
06-26-16, 09:33
Here's an intersting take on how Brexit/Scottish-UK split could affect US security re: North Atlantic anti-sub operations. It was before my time, but I did serve with cold war era sub guys that spent a great amount of time in the North Atlantic tracking Soviet maneuvers. They spent many, many months on station in the North Atlantic, and were able to do so by having access to Holy Loch (and Norway)for resupply. Without access to Holy Loch or the Norwegians, I think our sub fleet would have been stretched even thinner as the subs would have longer gaps in time & distance between on station ops and resupply runs. I'm betting the Scotts will, as mentioned above, find themselves scrambling for income if/when the UK and US are no longer paying for access to Holy Loch. I'm not sure how this will play out- if the US does intend to shift some of its Atlantic SSBN's to PacFleet then it seems reasonable to assume the void in deterent subs will be filled with UK SSBN's, but our attack subs will still need to resupply as close to the North Atlantic as possble. Unless another cold war with Russia develops, the Norwegians might not want to oblige. If the UK does intend to build up its domestic navy bases then I have no doubt the US will be more than happy to subsidize the effort, but will take time to overhaul/upgrade existing facitlities to support submarines. As for the impact on NATO, I have no idea what will happen in the long run.
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-brexit-challenges-us-security-16717?page=2
there is also the question of UK's nuclear arsenal, control and command is in the north.
Averageman
06-26-16, 09:33
It is odd the EU is pushing for an immediate negotiation to leave they want it in months instead of years. They must know something about Britain or they are gearing up to put the screws to them in trade.
I'm guessing that if you look at banking and trade and the prospect of having more cash to buy up any available British industry, you might find an answer.
Short run the advantage goes to the EU, but unless things within the EU change overnight, in the long run the Britain's win.
By the British leaving the German responsibility economically to the EU jumped quite a bit. Following history, I would guess that in a matter of months France will leave much like they left NATO if this works out for the British. Why pay for an advantage you will get for free was the mindset then.
Outlander Systems
06-26-16, 09:54
I'm from the Donald J. Trump school of thought on this:
You want NATO protection? Pay us.
You want us to defend your oil fields, and provide "stability" for your region? Make checks payable to Uncle Sugar.
You want us to build schools in your blown-out war zone? Sure. Give our businesses tax incentives to open up shop in your shithole country.
You want us to provide a missile shield system on your eastern border, but don't have the cash? Cool. Hook the USG up with mineral rights.
My tax dollars are pissed away, epically, like a fire hose of cash, for bullshit.
I'd prefer the USG send ME a check every year for making sound deals that are economically advantageous.
Brexit is nothing more, nothing less, than what happens when you have decade after decade of empty promises.
Eurodriver's lady friend tried talking some jibberish to me today.
Guys, literally. I don't even know what to say. I could literally go on for like 30 minutes about the conversation we had. It was so incredibly unbelievable. I'm still blown away at how stupid some of these statements were. Another gem was "We can't kill all of the leaders because there are lots of bad guys in Syria and they will just pop up to replace the ones we killed." to which I asked, you know, if there's so many bad guys in these countries why are we bringing them here and she said "Because its our obligation to help them whether they are good or bad."
:suicide: I WISH on my life I was making this up guys. I wish I was...
Ah, Euro...much to learn you have...much to learn. Now, let me steal a line from my avatar: "There is no escaping reason; no denying purpose. Because as we both know, without purpose, we would not exist. It is purpose that created us. Purpose that connects us. Purpose that pulls us, that guides us, that drives us. It is purpose that defines us. Purpose that binds us...Purpose."
I'm a strong believer that the happiest and most successful people in life best understand their own purpose and that of others - especially their friends. Might I suggest that the purpose of your lady friend has nothing to do with higher math or philosophical conversations. ;)
Outlander Systems
06-26-16, 10:03
I am older than Euro, and had similar dating habits in my yout.
I dated several "vegetarian", left-leaning types, and they were lots of...fun.
Thanks to the Internet, and people's willingness to put every personal detail on it...
13 years later, one gal has a master's degree and is a, I shit you not, barista in Seattle. Another has a degree in photography and is...unemployed.
Another one has a Bachelor's in Marketing and cuts hair...
My better half wears Ariats, could drink me under the table, and loves some Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and Donald J. Trump.
While nowhere near as "naughty" as the others, unlike those losers, I *CAN* trust her with my children, and the future of America. That and her paycheck is FAT. Hardest working woman I've ever met in my life. Can't cook, but she could just about work me under the table. When we were dating, she told me her AOL screen name, which was GlockShooterXX, and I knew I hit the jackpot. (I usually kept my gun-loving ways on the down lowskis, cause, chicks...)
Euro should enjoy it for what it is, as long as he plays it safe, and doesn't end up with his ding dong looking like a struck match; or worse, letting some slobbering, future barista raise his kid.
If Euro wants a girl worth a damn, my advice is to find one who wears cowboy boots.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/matches-7636332.jpg
The Evolution of Euro's Dugan if He Don't Behave
Ah, Euro...much to learn you have...much to learn. Now, let me steal a line from my avatar: "There is no escaping reason; no denying purpose. Because as we both know, without purpose, we would not exist. It is purpose that created us. Purpose that connects us. Purpose that pulls us, that guides us, that drives us. It is purpose that defines us. Purpose that binds us...Purpose."
I'm a strong believer that the happiest and most successful people in life best understand their own purpose and that of others - especially their friends. Might I suggest that the purpose of your lady friend has nothing to do with higher math or philosophical conversations. ;)
It is odd the EU is pushing for an immediate negotiation to leave they want it in months instead of years. They must know something about Britain or they are gearing up to put the screws to them in trade.
They have to make it as punitive as possible to hold off similar thought from other EU countries. (Netherlands, France, etc)
But that will backfire ultimately. Ie: it will hurt the EU as much or more than it hurts the UK.
People forget there are countries which did not join the EU and are not suffering because of it. And the UK did not buy into the euro, with good reason.
Even Spain and Italy are seeing unprecedented populist swings right over economic and immigration. The EU has not delivered promised prosperity and the immigration overreach is a strong concern.
Meanwhile, the UK has fundamental economics (growth and employment) rivaling even Germany and far superior to most of the EU members. Likewise, much of its trade is financial. Hard to tariff though they could tangle up laws.
But ultimately, who are you going to use.... Lloyd's of London? Or Achmed's of Turkey? Those French and Italian banks are really powerhouses, And Greece and Portugal are on the upswing... (not)
The idea that the UK is now somehow fragile is just silly and will not last. I've seen credible economic reports that the tangible impact of brexit to US companies is on the order of less than -1%. IE: noise level and far smaller than can be measured. Yet the US market dropped 5x that the day after.
I'm not saying the markets won't (over)react... just that there is no rational basis to do so yet.
Averageman
06-26-16, 10:21
That people don't "Get It" is no wonder.
The push for a NWO and One World Government was fodder for conspiracies in the seventies and eighties. NAFTA and the EU were brought to us by Progressives in disguise and this was all to be for the better of us.
Unless you grew up getting a old school education that included Citizenship, History you've likely been indoctrinated to believe the very words that Young Lady spoke. In my local High School before 1st and 2nd periods there is a news show piped in to every classroom it is an MTV meets MSNBC, a nice soylant green mix of Socialist Progressive indoctrination for the young masses.
It's not about sending your kids off to your local public school for an education anymore, what they are getting is less of the three R's and a lot of Socialist crap you wouldn't allow in your front door let alone your kids head.
It should scare the crap out of you.
The idea that the British People had a democratic vote to leave the EU and were successful in doing so, is a victory for freedom and democracy. The idea that those in charge don't like it and now have gathered their forces with a new strategy for an even newer vote to repeal it should smell an awful lot like tyranny.
I have to default back to what Euro said; "If Obama, Hillary, The Huffington Post, CNN and MSNBC like it, then I know I don't" or something close to that.
Man, all I can hope for you is that you don't have kids with this chick.
Maybe "Outlanders" Wife has a younger Sister?
Eurodriver
06-26-16, 10:23
So why are all the Leave people pissed now? Is that true or is it just lies by the remain people?
Also.
I didn't mean to deflect this thread toward my dating habits, but I was so absolutely blown away that she feels the EU is correct in their "obligation" to saving migrants I had to vent.
I'm still totally and utterly shocked that anyone would think that way. And when confronted with the reality of the situation and the fiscal costs and negative effects on local populations RE: crime and an increased burden on social safety nets she just sits there and goes "Well, it's the right thing to do. We have to do it"
I don't see any Muslim families in her studio apartment that mom and dad are still paying for :rolleyes: (at 24!)
As to NATO security risk... given the UK is 1 of 5 members meeting the NATO funding requirement, who loses if the EU plays tough and alienates them? Hint: not the UK
The US is one other meeting the requirement, two more are Baltic states nervous about Russia. And the other is Greece.
If Scotland managed to separate from the UK they better be ready for austerity as they will lose more than they gain economically. Losing bases hurts them badly, they will lease them back, be assured.
They'll need the cash flow.
Likewise, Does the EU need another bankrupt country? (Scotland would be like Greece if standalone). Somehow Scotland joining makes the EU stronger?
Remember, in the past britain chose to deal with Scotland by building a wall and containing them... too much trouble, not worth the effort to govern. Yes, that was before north sea oil. So it would hurt a bit now. But you could make the argument they are still a net drain on the UK, and would be for the EU.
Averageman
06-26-16, 10:41
So why are all the Leave people pissed now? Is that true or is it just lies by the remain people?
Also.
I didn't mean to deflect this thread toward my dating habits, but I was so absolutely blown away that she feels the EU is correct in their "obligation" to saving migrants I had to vent.
I'm still totally and utterly shocked that anyone would think that way. And when confronted with the reality of the situation and the fiscal costs and negative effects on local populations RE: crime and an increased burden on social safety nets she just sits there and goes "Well, it's the right thing to do. We have to do it"
I don't see any Muslim families in her studio apartment that mom and dad are still paying for :rolleyes: (at 24!)
I think the "Leave People" are pissed now because they have been overwhelmed with propaganda. There is a lot of information going around Britain about how badly this is going to hurt those in the 20-35 age bracket. They are being told that the Brexit vote for the most part was being pushed by those outside their age group to insure their continued pensions. They are being told those pensions will ride on the backs of the 20-35 year old populations.
All I can say is "It took you that long to figure out that is the way Social Security programs work?". Irregardless of a push for another vote, anything that would change because of it will cause even more chaos. Having a "Re-Do" will only raise suspicions and cause more people to feel and actually become disenfranchised from their government.
Digital_Damage
06-26-16, 11:58
So why are all the Leave people pissed now? Is that true or is it just lies by the remain people?
Also.
I didn't mean to deflect this thread toward my dating habits, but I was so absolutely blown away that she feels the EU is correct in their "obligation" to saving migrants I had to vent.
I'm still totally and utterly shocked that anyone would think that way. And when confronted with the reality of the situation and the fiscal costs and negative effects on local populations RE: crime and an increased burden on social safety nets she just sits there and goes "Well, it's the right thing to do. We have to do it"
I don't see any Muslim families in her studio apartment that mom and dad are still paying for :rolleyes: (at 24!)
Looks like their was some less than truthful remarks made on how the process would play out.
They appealed to a lot of voters by telling them all the billions they were giving to the EU would immediately be funneled into providing free higher education and healthcare. Only after the vote did the Leave group come out and say "oops we were wrong" . They basically preyed on uninformed less wealthy voters. Sound familure? Free cell phones for everyone!
MountainRaven
06-26-16, 12:32
Looks like their was some less than truthful remarks made on how the process would play out.
They appealed to a lot of voters by telling them all the billions they were giving to the EU would immediately be funneled into providing free higher education and healthcare. Only after the vote did the Leave group come out and say "oops we were wrong" . They basically preyed on uninformed less wealthy voters. Sound familure? Free cell phones for everyone!
I was thinking more along the lines of, "We'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it!"
militarymoron
06-26-16, 12:44
Looks like remorse, a ton of people that voted Leave are seriously pissed.
There's this as well: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated?CMP=fb_gu
Digital_Damage
06-26-16, 12:54
There's this as well: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated?CMP=fb_gu
77,000 is a drop in the bucket, Even if 99.99% are fraudulent they have already met the requirement for debate in parliament.
Averageman
06-26-16, 13:04
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated?CMP=fb_gu
The website’s only identity “test” is a simple checkbox asking to confirm you are either a British citizen or that you are a resident of the UK. While postcodes are required, street addresses are not and no proof of ID is needed.
I think if they try this, there will be a backlash against it. They had a vote, they didn't get the results they wanted, so now lets have another vote? Come on, seriously?
It stinks of manipulation and further disenfranchises people trying for a legitimate change. Regardless of what we might want, or the EU might want it is their country to do with as they the people please.
There's this as well: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated?CMP=fb_gu
Loved this quote: "Despite Vatican City, a tiny city state, having a total population of just 800, over 39,000 residents of Vatican City appeared to have signed the petition."
Averageman
06-26-16, 13:09
Loved this quote: "Despite Vatican City, a tiny city state, having a total population of just 800, over 39,000 residents of Vatican City appeared to have signed the petition."
That's almost like the voting in Chicago???
Digital_Damage
06-26-16, 13:18
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated?CMP=fb_gu
The website’s only identity “test” is a simple checkbox asking to confirm you are either a British citizen or that you are a resident of the UK. While postcodes are required, street addresses are not and no proof of ID is needed.
I think if they try this, there will be a backlash against it. They had a vote, they didn't get the results they wanted, so now lets have another vote? Come on, seriously?
It stinks of manipulation and further disenfranchises people trying for a legitimate change. Regardless of what we might want, or the EU might want it is their country to do with as they the people please.
It is their people asking for the 2nd (not that is it possible anyways), it is their fault for not being well informed on what they were voting for. Now they have to pay for the consequences.
It is also official, The market selloff was the worst single day sell off in history. Gov bond Yields are also being pushed to historic lows. Other safe heaven Assets such as gold will continue to rise and many are suggesting this week is the time to sell 20 year investments since supply is being outstripped. Many experts are saying next week is critical, if there is not a rally day next week there is historically a 72% chance a decade long global recession will take place.
Averageman
06-26-16, 15:58
It is to me still suspect.
There were threats, the threats were carried out, savings and investments were wiped out, so now lets have a new vote?
Will that bring back anything lost?
No, it will only show just how far the Globalist Socialist Progressives are willing to go to ruin the little man in their way.
Eurodriver's lady friend tried talking some jibberish to me today......
Guys, literally. I don't even know what to say. ...
:suicide: I WISH on my life I was making this up guys. I wish I was...
Here's your sign.
https://40.media.tumblr.com/9b67a7e9f157e2f9c9b637aa505fce71/tumblr_myxt60JMiq1roe9r1o1_400.jpg
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/petition-for-second-eu-referendum-may-have-been-manipulated?CMP=fb_gu
The website’s only identity “test” is a simple checkbox asking to confirm you are either a British citizen or that you are a resident of the UK. While postcodes are required, street addresses are not and no proof of ID is needed.
I think if they try this, there will be a backlash against it. They had a vote, they didn't get the results they wanted, so now lets have another vote? Come on, seriously?
It stinks of manipulation and further disenfranchises people trying for a legitimate change. Regardless of what we might want, or the EU might want it is their country to do with as they the people please.
Recent Dem sit-in cuz they didn't get the vote they wanted for 500 anyone?
It is also official, The market selloff was the worst single day sell off in history.
Source? What I'm reading is indicating the worst since 2008, granted.
Bad day for euro stocks for sure. Not so much for US stocks.
http://www.barrons.com/articles/brexit-selloff-highlights-strength-of-u-s-market-1466828693
It is their people asking for the 2nd (not that is it possible anyways), it is their fault for not being well informed on what they were voting for. Now they have to pay for the consequences.
It is also official, The market selloff was the worst single day sell off in history. Gov bond Yields are also being pushed to historic lows. Other safe heaven Assets such as gold will continue to rise and many are suggesting this week is the time to sell 20 year investments since supply is being outstripped. Many experts are saying next week is critical, if there is not a rally day next week there is historically a 72% chance a decade long global recession will take place.
The hilarious part of it all is that nothing actually happened. No planes were flown into tall buildings. No major investment firm went belly up. No energy kingpin got indicted for fraud. No one defaulted on billions or trillions worth of debt. Nothing actually "happened"!
The key to it all isn't who lost their shirts on Friday. No, the key is who made obscene amounts of money on Friday. THOSE are the people who should be looked at.
Good for Britain. It was VERY close though.
This is good for them and for freedom. The EU sucks lots of money out of productive people and countries, gifts it to cronies, bureaucrats, big business, and invaders.
Globalists HATE sovereignty, and seek centralized mega-states. Mass immigration is their attempt to weaken, outnumber, overwhelm and isolate people who want their own nations intact.
Britain, and especially England still has lots of problems. Its capital city is now ruled by an Islamist. It is rife with Sharia-loving people who are full-fledged citizens.
I hope to see the EU disintegrate, and countries go back to their nationalist roots, clean up their houses, and wake the hell up to the invasion that's well under way for several decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGvZil0qWPg
ColtSeavers
06-27-16, 00:44
Off Topic: Regarding Euro's Beau... I think she gets a pass as she earned a token for not immediately saying "Nope! Nopenopenope OH HELL NO," hanging up and changing the locks if not leaving when he thought he had bedbugs. I know my wife would have. But seriously, you should use this new found opinion to your advantage and tell her the next time you see a hot 21+yr old female struggling to get by that it would be your obligation to move her in and help her out...
On Topic: I find it amazing how many people seem to think it impossible(?) for Britain to recover from this. Laughable really.
So why are all the Leave people pissed now? Is that true or is it just lies by the remain people?
Also.
I didn't mean to deflect this thread toward my dating habits, but I was so absolutely blown away that she feels the EU is correct in their "obligation" to saving migrants I had to vent.
I'm still totally and utterly shocked that anyone would think that way. And when confronted with the reality of the situation and the fiscal costs and negative effects on local populations RE: crime and an increased burden on social safety nets she just sits there and goes "Well, it's the right thing to do. We have to do it"
I don't see any Muslim families in her studio apartment that mom and dad are still paying for :rolleyes: (at 24!)
Dude, every girl I meet says the same type of shit.
I'm made out to be a "Republican" (which, by the way, is the most vile label among the youth of today) because I don't agree with their nonsense.
I'm currently kicking myself for not proposing to the hot trustfunder of "Conservative" upbringing I was dating last year.
I'm made out to be a "Republican" (which, by the way, is the most vile label among the youth of today) because I don't agree with their nonsense.
Kind of like how "liberal" is the most vile label used here, and is equated with being a sheep, brain dead, a communist, and/or literally satan.
platoonDaddy
06-27-16, 12:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4mCRyedgbI&feature=youtu.be
Digital_Damage
06-27-16, 13:09
This lunatic the next Rush Limbaugh? LOL
Kind of like how "liberal" is the most vile label used here, and is equated with being a sheep, brain dead, a communist, and/or literally satan.
That's just not true. Even Hillary is nothing more than a lesser demon. :)
This lunatic the next Rush Limbaugh? LOL
Can you explain to us why a global oligarchy is better than a national oligarchy? :confused:
So now France and Deutschland are looking to form a "Super Europe" since Great Britain left, with all control centralized in Brussels. No individual Armies, etc. I don't know how valid this is and if this is a BS website:
From the express.co.uk:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
MountainRaven
06-27-16, 17:07
So now France and Deutschland are looking to form a "Super Europe" since Great Britain left, with all control centralized in Brussels. No individual Armies, etc. I don't know how valid this is and if this is a BS website:
From the express.co.uk:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
Not sure how seriously I would take that. Most British newspapers are little more than tabloids and I don't know enough about them to say whether this one tends toward the tinfoil section or not.
I wouldn't take it seriously unless it's also being reported by the BBC. They're not perfect, but they're better than most in the UK.
interesting and follow the links etc..
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/27/foreign-chief-europe-needs-eu-army/
if so pretty scary stuff especially the global part !
The EU’s high representative for foreign affairs, Federica Mogherini, will present a new “global strategy” of foreign policy.
Soon after Britain voted to leave the European Union (EU), its foreign affairs chief, Elmar Brok, urged the economic and political bloc to go ahead with plans to create an army.
Not sure how seriously I would take that. Most British newspapers are little more than tabloids and I don't know enough about them to say whether this one tends toward the tinfoil section or not.
I wouldn't take it seriously unless it's also being reported by the BBC. They're not perfect, but they're better than most in the UK.
Probably on the order of The Weekly World News at the checkout stands. That rag used to feature the escapades of BAT BOY. A really high end gazette.
Yeah that worked out so well in the 40s.
I hope they don't think that blitzkrieg shit will work as well as last time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They want another army that doesn't do anything?
Europe doesn't have to worry about posse comitatus. But then again, since the number of armed (leo) US govt agents outnumber the USMC, the US govt doesn't really have to worry about it either.
Kind of like how "liberal" is the most vile label used here, and is equated with being a sheep, brain dead, a communist, and/or literally satan.
That's why I like to differentiate the two by using "Marxist" or "Leftist".
Business_Casual
06-27-16, 18:35
Not sure how seriously I would take that. Most British newspapers are little more than tabloids and I don't know enough about them to say whether this one tends toward the tinfoil section or not.
I wouldn't take it seriously unless it's also being reported by the BBC. They're not perfect, but they're better than most in the UK.
The BBC is reliable but will have a left-ward tilt to all reporting. Much like the NYT. The difference is the BBC is literally a state organ, whereas the NYT is technically a free enterprise...
The_War_Wagon
06-27-16, 18:54
Pffft... they already HAVE NATO. :rolleyes:
The same story is now being picked up by the Daily Mail:
Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html
Business_Casual
06-28-16, 05:38
The same story is now being picked up by the Daily Mail:
Has Britain avoided a ‘European superstate’? France and Germany ‘draw up plans to morph EU countries into one with control over members’ armies and economies’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html
They can't help it - they are statists. They go about, roaring like lions, seeking those whom they can devour...
Wonder if they are doing the super state with standing army to make sure no more BREXITS happen??
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 09:39
Wonder if they are doing the super state with standing army to make sure no more BREXITS happen??
The "EU Army" thing has been around since the Lisbon Treaty in 2007. Much longer than that, actually.
The fearsites are trying really hard now to spin it up again, because, you know... it feels good to kook out.
BoringGuy45
06-28-16, 15:12
The "EU Army" thing has been around since the Lisbon Treaty in 2007. Much longer than that, actually.
The fearsites are trying really hard now to spin it up again, because, you know... it feels good to kook out.
Why is the idea so implausible? It's only because of our own hubris that we consider such possibilities to be paranoid delusions: Come on, the Soviet Union fell 26 years ago! The Nazis were defeated! Pol Pot, Saddam, bin Laden, and Qaddafi are dead. We have evolved and are above that. The idea of a totalitarian superstate is nothing more than tinfoil hat bullshit. It will NEVER happen again...
The fact is, humanity goes through cycles: When tyrants become intolerable, people push for liberty. Then, they realize that liberty is scary and a lot of work, so they cry for tyrants to return and save them. Rinse, repeat.
I'm not saying we're on the very eve of an EU army and a reunification of the Roman Empire. It will probably take a lot more than Britain calling it quits to drum up the support to fund something like that. But this is Europe we're talking about. If we think that American leftists are statist, they're practically Ron Paul compared to even a moderate European leftist. I had a debate with a Danish guy who said America's biggest problem is that we put too much emphasis on liberty. He said that America's problems could be cured if Americans were more like the Danish, and gave their full trust and obedience that the government will act in the best interests of the people. He then added that, even if the government doesn't have your best interests in mind, we need to realize that it doesn't matter because the individual is unimportant compared to the whole. He concluded that the U.S. has LESS freedom than places like Singapore, or even North Korea, because those countries protect people from themselves. People in those countries don't have the right to bear arms or criticize the government, but they are freer because the government keeps those places crime free, and as long as you obeyed the state, you were safer than you were in a country like the U.S., where you had to constantly worry about criminals. This was only one guy, but I've learned that this is a very popular worldview in many European countries; the continent is probably as ripe for totalitarian government as it was in the 1920s and 30s.
Very, very little was learned from either World War II or the Cold War. An attempt at creating a national police/gendarmarie/internal army here would be met with fierce resistance by the majority, or at least a sizable minority, of U.S. citizens (either militarily or politically). But I have a feeling that an EU army would be much more welcomed in Europe. European countries are not cut from the same cloth as the U.S. We're based on a foundation of distrust for government founded by a rebellion. Most of Europe's countries are the products of a natural evolution away from monarchy/autocracy, with no real history of renunciation of those former systems. Whether answering to a king, a president, or an elected parliament, most countries have the mindset that "They command, we obey." So while an EU army may not be on the imminent horizon, the political climate is currently one that such a measure would likely be welcomed.
So it appears that Merkel, who paraded as a "conservative" may actually bring Europe under one govt control, with Germany in charge, fulfilling Hitler's dream....ironic that Great Britain is once again avoiding the German domination....
I can't wait for some dude to brainwave attacking Russia over Ukraine.
Neva been dun befo'
The "EU Army" thing has been around since the Lisbon Treaty in 2007. Much longer than that, actually.
The fearsites are trying really hard now to spin it up again, because, you know... it feels good to kook out.
I have Swedish relatives in southern Sweden, and part of that family lives in Switzerland and Austria. I have visited them on several occasions and they were always gung-ho about the idea of a "United States of Europe". In their minds it would create something on par with the United States and make them a world player. This kind of thinking is not a "kook out" in the minds of average Europeans. It does seem interesting that the reports indicate a kind of "Franco-Hun" alliance. I have found the Germans never had a real love for the French.
Whiskey_Bravo
06-28-16, 15:45
So now France and Deutschland are looking to form a "Super Europe" since Great Britain left, with all control centralized in Brussels. No individual Armies, etc. I don't know how valid this is and if this is a BS website:
From the express.co.uk:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit
Hasn't this been tried before? lol
I have Swedish relatives in southern Sweden, and part of that family lives in Switzerland and Austria. I have visited them on several occasions and they were always gung-ho about the idea of a "United States of Europe". In their minds it would create something on par with the United States and make them a world player. This kind of thinking is not a "kook out" in the minds of average Europeans. It does seem interesting that the reports indicate a kind of "Franco-Hun" alliance. I have found the Germans never had a real love for the French.
So Great Britain would've been their Hawaii? :)
BoringGuy45
06-28-16, 16:28
So Great Britain would've been their Hawaii? :)
Just like Hawaii, only cold, gray, rainy, and instead of pineapples and roast pig to eat, you get pies filled with internal organs. ;)
Well, great, now the Marine Corps is 'exiting' the Navy:
http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/06/semperfuxit/
brushy bill
06-28-16, 20:34
Well, great, now the Marine Corps is 'exiting' the Navy:
http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/06/semperfuxit/
You owe me a new computer. I spat coffee all over the keyboard. Hilarious!
Business_Casual
06-29-16, 15:00
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/29/ftse-set-to-open-higher-as-post-brexit-rally-gains-momentum/
Well, what do you know? Oh, and the GBP free fall? Not happening.
yeah and just like Hawaii gun laws to :) ahhahahahahaa
So Great Britain would've been their Hawaii? :)
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