View Full Version : The Benghazi Report is in...
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 13:26
Not interesting:
No dastardly villains or willful misconduct.
Plenty of bureaucratic incompetence and people working out of their element.
Bungled response due to inter-agency stupidity.
Interesting:
The old report stated that the 35 Americans were rescued by a "quasi-governmental militia," which at the time was intended to mean the new government we installed- aka al Qaeda. The truth is that they were rescued by Mukhabarat el-Jamahiriya... Qaddafi's Intelligence Service.
The al Qaeda element responsible for securing the embassy, the "February 17 Martyr's Brigade" (****... I wish I was making this shit up) took the night off.
Stevens was floatin' at the Villa with the goal of establishing a permanent Consulate in the town of Benghazi... because Libya was the #1 source of transnational jihadis and Benghazi was the #1 town in Libya from where they originated- Ms. Clinton was scheduled to drop by for a cup of tea at the Villa one month later (!!!).
A link to the report would be helpful:
http://benghazi.house.gov/NewInfo
You're welcome.
Stevens was floatin' at the Villa with the goal of establishing a permanent Consulate in the town of Benghazi... because Libya was the #1 source of transnational jihadis and Benghazi was the #1 town in Libya from where they originated- Ms. Clinton was scheduled to drop by for a cup of tea at the Villa one month later (!!!).
Oh but for one month's time........:rolleyes:
Bet you'd have seen some CAS if that would have happened!
Not interesting:
No dastardly villains or willful misconduct.
Plenty of bureaucratic incompetence and people working out of their element.
Bungled response due to inter-agency stupidity.
Interesting:
The old report stated that the 35 Americans were rescued by a "quasi-governmental militia," which at the time was intended to mean the new government we installed- aka al Qaeda. The truth is that they were rescued by Mukhabarat el-Jamahiriya... Qaddafi's Intelligence Service.
The al Qaeda element responsible for securing the embassy, the "February 17 Martyr's Brigade" (****... I wish I was making this shit up) took the night off.
Stevens was floatin' at the Villa with the goal of establishing a permanent Consulate in the town of Benghazi... because Libya was the #1 source of transnational jihadis and Benghazi was the #1 town in Libya from where they originated- Ms. Clinton was scheduled to drop by for a cup of tea at the Villa one month later (!!!).
A major take I home from the report as I understood it was, the reason they didn't close it down due to obvious security concerns was due to the fact she was scheduled to visit and felt it would look bad for them to close it down. Personally, I didn't expect a finding of willful misconduct, as much as utter and complete incompetence, poor management, and stupidity in the decision making chain (like how many times was added security requested and denied?) that went right to her office.
Whether there was willful misconduct on her part or anyone close to her, would never see light of day in the fact she's many things, but she's not stupid and you don't get to that level without plausible deniability built into layers between her and whom ever would go down in flames should willful misconduct be pointed at someone.
I think those who think she was on the phone actively telling any and all rescue parties to stand down are in tin foil hat land with 9/11 denier types. A cultivated culture with State and the admin of said incompetence, poor management, and stupidity is more than enough to result is the total cluster that was that event.
And leave it to the win at all cost crowd, David "dumbass" Axelrod and other talking about how waiting till 2016 to release was all "politics". Yeah, it couldn't have been the 4+ years it took to get at Hilldogs emails holding up things could it? Or the total administration stonewall?
And what's sad is there's people who will believe that dumbassery....
Soooooo.......
When does Hillary Clinton get dragged off screaming and in shackles?
Because I'm not reading that anywhere. Surely a clerical error
PROPOSED ADDITIONAL VIEWS OF REPRESENTATIVES
JIM JORDAN AND MIKE POMPEO
http://benghazi.house.gov/sites/republicans.benghazi.house.gov/files/documents/19%20Jordan%20and%20Pompeo%20Additional%20Views.pdf
Soooooo.......
When does Hillary Clinton get dragged off screaming and in shackles?
Because I'm not reading that anywhere. Surely a clerical error
^^^ All I wanted for Christmas...Santa is fat, lazy lib-
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 15:02
A major take I home from the report as I understood it was, the reason they didn't close it down due to obvious security concerns was due to the fact she was scheduled to visit and felt it would look bad for them to close it down.
I didn't get that.
I think Stevens was looking to be "The Man" and put himself way out there with inadequate resources, despite the obvious worsening security situation. The Brits pulled back to Tripoli months before.
He was not receiving what he needed in the way of security... yet he stayed. Would he he have stayed if he wasn't getting food or water?
Nowhere can I find that he was forced to man that post.
I think he was just totally and completely ignorant as to where he was in the world, who lived there, or how things work on the battlefield.
(Basically State Dept and CIA trying to do military stuff without the military and ****ing it up miserably. Nothing new about that.)
And leave it to the win at all cost crowd, David "dumbass" Axelrod and other talking about how waiting till 2016 to release was all "politics".
I know people who were in Tripoli and who testified before the committee- it was 100% designed to bring down Hillary, and it's not at all coincidental that the report came out when it did.
Telling the truth about what happened- and not giving them the ammunition to bring down Hillary- painted a big juicy target on everyone who testified to become scapegoated. Still they did what was right.
I believe that the families of the victims are the ones who spoke up and forced Tres Gawdy to do right in this investigation, and that is why we don't have the political cruise missile this was intended to be.
Yeah, it couldn't have been the 4+ years it took to get at Hilldogs emails holding up things could it? Or the total administration stonewall?
The Benghazi Report took longer than the 9/11 report, the Kennedy Assassination report, and other much more complex and higher profile inquiries... but it could have taken even longer- if the election were in 2017.
Soooooo.......
When does Hillary Clinton get dragged off screaming and in shackles?
Because I'm not reading that anywhere. Surely a clerical error
She should be under Gitmo getting whatever is worse than waterboarding. I know I sure would if I'd pulled her shenanigans with CLASS data. I can't plug a USB drive into my work computer on the UNCLASS network without having my port shut down automatically, along with IT and Security shitting an entire masonry factory on my head....
The Benghazi Report took longer than the 9/11 report, the Kennedy Assassination report, and other much more complex and higher profile inquiries... but it could have taken even longer- if the election were in 2017.
And how much stonewalling and deliberate hiding of information took place in those investigations? I mean, did I miss Congress Critters spending years fighting to get relevant correspondence off Colin Powell's private email server or what?
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 15:15
She should be under Gitmo getting whatever is worse than waterboarding. I know I sure would if I'd pulled her shenanigans with CLASS data.
Different rules for different people.
I didn't know you could trade classified material for sex and not go to jail until Petraeus.
Now I know that mixing FOUO and personal on a home server, plus a little spillage of higher level stuff won't send you to jail either.
Would it stop KalashniKEV from going to jail if I were mishandling, let alone using it as currency?
And how much stonewalling and deliberate hiding of information took place in those investigations? I mean, did I miss Congress Critters spending years fighting to get relevant correspondence off Colin Powell's private email server or what?
Ummm... this might come as a shock, but in the 9/11 report... quite a bit...
Have you like... not-ever-heard about the 28 redacted pages that we still aren't allowed to see?
Same with Brownie during Hurricane Katrina, same with some poor Company Commander who lost accountability of a Static Reach for slingload ops.
They investigate... you obstruct...
Welcome to reality.
Ummm... this might come as a shock, but in the 9/11 report... quite a bit...
Have you like... not-ever-heard about the 28 redacted pages that we still aren't allowed to see?
The report has information that WE in the general public are not allowed to see. That's a bit different than the investigators having to fight for the information and/or not even knowing if they got it all.
Soooooo.......
When does Hillary Clinton get dragged off screaming and in shackles?
Because I'm not reading that anywhere. Surely a clerical error
Sorry. The Report is in = The Fix is in.
She will accept full responsibility, just like Reno at Waco, and NOTHING will be done about it, just like Reno at Waco. The Clintons can't even manage a new play book.
It was my responsibility BUT I'm not going to resign, take a pay cut or be consequenced in any way because in politics "accepting responsibility" is like going to confession. You say the words and you are cleansed and it is improper to bring up past sins ever again because "responsibility was taken" already.
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 15:29
The report has information that WE in the general public are not allowed to see. That's a bit different than the investigators having to fight for the information and/or not even knowing if they got it all.
Walking it back to my OP, I'm sure the administration would have wanted to redact the fact that the remnants of Qaddafi's old Mukhabarat saved the day and al Qaeda had the security contract for the Villa.
The point you missed is that investigators always have to "fight for the information..." and you're never sure if you got it all.
That's why it's called "investigating."
Sorry. The Report is in = The Fix is in.
She will accept full responsibility, just like Reno at Waco, and NOTHING will be done about it, just like Reno at Waco. The Clintons can't even manage a new play book.
It was my responsibility BUT I'm not going to resign, take a pay cut or be consequenced in any way because in politics "accepting responsibility" is like going to confession. You say the words and you are cleansed and it is improper to bring up past sins ever again because "responsibility was taken" already.
"Mistakes were made"
"I was uninformed"
"I do not recall"
"Mistakes were made"
"I was uninformed"
"I do not recall"
And of course...."What Difference Does It Make?"
http://dryerreport.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/hillary-what-difference-does-it-make-use-this-one.jpg
Walking it back to my OP, I'm sure the administration would have wanted to redact the fact that the remnants of Qaddafi's old Mukhabarat saved the day and al Qaeda had the security contract for the Villa.
The point you missed is that investigators always have to "fight for the information..." and you're never sure if you got it all.
That's why it's called "investigating."
So yet again, did I miss the part where the 9/11 panel had to turn cartwheels to get info off Powell's private server or what? You brought up the length of time on those other investigations so show me the example where targets spent years breaking federal law to hide information in those instances.
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 15:41
So yet again, did I miss the part where the 9/11 panel had to turn cartwheels to get info off Powell's private server or what? You brought up the length of time on those other investigations so show me the example where targets spent years breaking federal law to hide information in those instances.
Start a new thread for Clinton bashing.
This is about the report, which I am still reading in the hopes of finding another interesting tidbit or two.
I was trying not to think of that one as it is too fresh and disheartening.
This rotten person may well have her finger on the button in 6 months.
ETA as much as I despise Clinton, those people are still dead and not coming back. So it doesn't matter how much I vilify her.
Start a new thread for Clinton bashing.
This is about the report, which I am still reading in the hopes of finding another interesting tidbit or two.
IE there's not one. It's not Clinton bashing to point out the multiple illegal actions taken to obfuscate what happened in the subject incident....
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 15:47
IE there's not one. It's not Clinton bashing to point out the multiple illegal actions taken to obfuscate what happened in the subject incident....
What exactly did she do that is "illegal" other than mishandling?
What exactly did she do that is "illegal" other than mishandling?
Serious question for non-military/DoD types:
Is incompetence a prosecutable offense?
Whiskey_Bravo
06-28-16, 15:52
What exactly did she do that is "illegal" other than mishandling?
I really do wonder about you man.
What exactly did she do that is "illegal" other than mishandling?
Let me give you a run down of what it means when the State Department IG says her actions were in violation of SD "policy." Policies within branches of the federal gov't, are designed to ensure compliance with all applicable federal law. So when the IG says the actions were in violation of "policy" that means the actions were in violation of the law, specifically federal records retention laws. The same laws that make sure that every piece of correspondence I send or document I generate as part of my services to DoD is electronically stored. Storing correspondence on a non-official IT system where nobody can get to them without going through the "owner" is pretty much the exact opposite of what records retention laws were intended for....
And you say "mishandling", well the DoD IA and CLASS info handling training I have to sit through every $%&*#$)(*& year paints the bright red picture of "espionage" on it. Me, a guy with basically ZERO access to CLASS info seems to have more knowledge of the subject than the woman who was SoS and wants to be POTUS.
I didn't get that.
I think Stevens was looking to be "The Man" and put himself way out there with inadequate resources, despite the obvious worsening security situation. The Brits pulled back to Tripoli months before.
He was not receiving what he needed in the way of security... yet he stayed. Would he he have stayed if he wasn't getting food or water?
Nowhere can I find that he was forced to man that post.
I think he was just totally and completely ignorant as to where he was in the world, who lived there, or how things work on the battlefield.
(Basically State Dept and CIA trying to do military stuff without the military and ****ing it up miserably. Nothing new about that.)
I know people who were in Tripoli and who testified before the committee- it was 100% designed to bring down Hillary, and it's not at all coincidental that the report came out when it did.
Telling the truth about what happened- and not giving them the ammunition to bring down Hillary- painted a big juicy target on everyone who testified to become scapegoated. Still they did what was right.
I believe that the families of the victims are the ones who spoke up and forced Tres Gawdy to do right in this investigation, and that is why we don't have the political cruise missile this was intended to be.
The Benghazi Report took longer than the 9/11 report, the Kennedy Assassination report, and other much more complex and higher profile inquiries... but it could have taken even longer- if the election were in 2017.
As incompetently as she handled the matter (along with her handling of DoS overall), should it not have been designed to deny her the presidency? Knowing that the 5th Column media and her cheer section in Congress didn't care, along with everyone voting Vagina2016? :confused:
She should be under Gitmo getting whatever is worse than waterboarding. I know I sure would if I'd pulled her shenanigans with CLASS data. I can't plug a USB drive into my work computer on the UNCLASS network without having my port shut down automatically, along with IT and Security shitting an entire masonry factory on my head....
Amen brother! Every time someone in DC screws the pooch, they heap more IT restrictions on us in the field as a "corrective action". :mad:
What exactly did she do that is "illegal" other than mishandling?
Knowing full well that she's been caught red handed breaking federal law, why would you put "illegal" in quotation marks? :confused:
Let me give you a run down of what it means when the State Department IG says her actions were in violation of SD "policy." Policies within branches of the federal gov't, are designed to ensure compliance with all applicable federal law. So when the IG says the actions were in violation of "policy" that means the actions were in violation of the law, specifically federal records retention laws. The same laws that make sure that every piece of correspondence I send or document I generate as part of my services to DoD is electronically stored. Storing correspondence on a non-official IT system where nobody can get to them without going through the "owner" is pretty much the exact opposite of what records retention laws were intended for....
And you say "mishandling", well the DoD IA and CLASS info handling training I have to sit through every $%&*#$)(*& year paints the bright red picture of "espionage" on it. Me, a guy with basically ZERO access to CLASS info seems to have more knowledge of the subject than the woman who was SoS and wants to be POTUS.
That is one of the best summaries that I've seen of the matter on this forum. I'd only add that this is a rather unique part of Title 18 US Criminal Code (Section 1924) where negligence is a crime. In other words, the US attorney does not need to show criminal intent; only that you had a duty and failed it.
Had you done what she is accused of, you're counsel would be advising you that keeping the prison sentence under 2 years and the fine less than $1 million would be a "win." Remember, each unsecured document is a separate offense punishable up to a year in prison.
KalashniKEV
06-28-16, 16:41
And you say "mishandling", well the DoD IA and CLASS info handling training I have to sit through every $%&*#$)(*& year paints the bright red picture of "espionage" on it.
Wait... so you think she was doing espionage?
As incompetently as she handled the matter (along with her handling of DoS overall), should it not have been designed to deny her the presidency?
I know... "never let a crisis go to waste" and all, but the exploitation of the victims "to deny her the presidency" is a disgrace for the GOP. Plus it backfired.
Knowing full well that she's been caught red handed breaking federal law, why would you put "illegal" in quotation marks? :confused:
Doing Espionage?
Serously, can a person in that position be prosecuted for imcomptence?
Flankenstein
06-28-16, 17:00
......
Start a new thread for Clinton bashing.
This is about the report, which I am still reading in the hopes of finding another interesting tidbit or two.
Clinton is directly relevant to Benghazi as Reno was to Waco. Do you seriously think you could discuss Watergate without bringing Nixon into the discussion?
I'm confused. I thought that bypassing federal record keeping laws was illegal. I thought handling classified information via unclassified channels was illegal. Did she or did she not do the above 2 things? I thought it was pretty much understood and accepted that she did in fact bypass federal record keeping laws with the use of a personal server instead of the DoS IT department like every other employee.
There may still be some argument in what classified really means, but it's hard to imagine that she did not pass classified data through an unsecured server given that she didn't use the DoS account at all. I'll give this one up until more data come to light.
As for the timing of the report. My guess is had she not destroyed the server, claimed she couldnt recover any of it and all that jazz the report would have been done well before now. Unfortunately since she stalled, lied and had the Dem reps delay the committee as much as possible she has no leg to stand in when she claims political grand standing. She should have handed over the info jiffy quick and given Americas squirrel fascinations they would have forgotten about it by now.
So to recap. She broke federal record keeping laws which by definition is something that is illegal.
More importantly though this stupid cow and her people couldn't effectively handle a simple situation like protecting a small consular mission from being over run and her ambassador to the country killed. Why the **** do we think she can handle a more complex situation? A bunch or retarded goat ****ers beat her like a red headed step child. WTF do we think a Putin will do to her?
More importantly though this stupid cow and her people couldn't effectively handle a simple situation like protecting a small consular mission from being over run and her ambassador to the country killed. Why the **** do we think she can handle a more complex situation? A bunch or retarded goat ****ers beat her like a red headed step child. WTF do we think a Putin will do to her?
And THAT needs to be the Trump message during the election. She's touting her "experience" in this area as an asset. We got hit on 9-11 fer fuks sake, who didn't see that coming?
Outlander Systems
06-28-16, 17:46
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/892
Serously, can a person in that position be prosecuted for imcomptence?
Outlander Systems
06-28-16, 17:48
Bro, worry not.
Politicians as corrupt as her are bound to be blackmailed at some point.
I'm confused. I thought that bypassing federal record keeping laws was illegal. I thought handling classified information via unclassified channels was illegal. Did she or did she not do the above 2 things? I thought it was pretty much understood and accepted that she did in fact bypass federal record keeping laws with the use of a personal server instead of the DoS IT department like every other employee.
There may still be some argument in what classified really means, but it's hard to imagine that she did not pass classified data through an unsecured server given that she didn't use the DoS account at all. I'll give this one up until more data come to light.
As for the timing of the report. My guess is had she not destroyed the server, claimed she couldnt recover any of it and all that jazz the report would have been done well before now. Unfortunately since she stalled, lied and had the Dem reps delay the committee as much as possible she has no leg to stand in when she claims political grand standing. She should have handed over the info jiffy quick and given Americas squirrel fascinations they would have forgotten about it by now.
So to recap. She broke federal record keeping laws which by definition is something that is illegal.
More importantly though this stupid cow and her people couldn't effectively handle a simple situation like protecting a small consular mission from being over run and her ambassador to the country killed. Why the **** do we think she can handle a more complex situation? A bunch or retarded goat ****ers beat her like a red headed step child. WTF do we think a Putin will do to her?
Clinton is directly relevant to Benghazi as Reno was to Waco. Do you seriously think you could discuss Watergate without bringing Nixon into the discussion?
Reno was much closer to that event in terms up to the minute decision making than Clinton was to this or Nixon was to his "problem" but I don't see how we can discuss Benghazi without HC in the loop. My only point is, not a 1:1 comparison. Two, not directed at anyone in particular, no matter what the report says, some will remain convinced she was on the phone herself that very night personally telling any and all who wanted to go in to stand down. Personally, it sounds like incompetency across the org and reflective of the overall admin, which to say a bunch of morons. I'm still not convinced however that there was no way to get a response to the event and the blatant attempt at blaming it on a spur of the moment rise up due to some stupid movie vs a planned 9/11 related event makes me wanna yak.
Wait... so you think she was doing espionage?
18 USC 793F, part of the Espionage Act of 1917 as amended
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
Either she compromised all the info through ignorance, falling under Section F, or she knew better and did it anyway falling under the other sections. BTW Section D is one of the crimes they charged Ed Snowden with.....
The annual training I get every year is VERY clear that intent is not necessary to be charged with espionage and IIRC there's an executive order floating around that EVERYONE in the executive branch gets training in the area every year.
Averageman
06-28-16, 18:02
Do you really think this is over?
I keep imagining that likely as not the slow trickle of stuff that was on that server is going to be like a Chinese Water Torture. Drip,...drip,...drip the rest of what we didn't get will slowly be revealed.
It may not be that She was blatantly responsible for what happened, just totally incompetent at the helm.
Oh, yes, that is punishable.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-28-16, 18:22
What exactly did she do that is "illegal" other than mishandling?
It's not the crime, it's the cover up. It's what they all get it for in the end. Scooter Libby to Watergate.
Is anyone still going to defend Rice going out and saying on all the news shows that it was over a video? These bozos lied to us all over the place and then covered it up, for years.
Serously, can a person in that position be prosecuted for incompetence?
According to CommieKEV, yes. That is the standard he has put forth for prosecuting the NeoCons and Bush for the Iraq war.
I see. Thanks for answering my question and Outlander for citing actual statute. I did not know.
Also, please don't call him "CommieKev". I can see that he would want any charges to be cut and dry and removed from political influence.
As a private person, I can and do hate Clinton. But if I were a federal prosecutor, I would rather everything be objective and cut and dry.
It's not the crime, it's the cover up. It's what they all get it for in the end. Scooter Libby to Watergate.
Is anyone still going to defend Rice going out and saying on all the news shows that it was over a video? These bozos lied to us all over the place and then covered it up, for years.
Spot on brother! They lied through their fvcking teeth about the cause when they have documented comments in private to the contrary. Even lied to the families faces when the bodies came home. Is it criminal? Probably not but without a doubt speaks volumes to the ethical standards to which they hold themselves. Unfortunately about half of this country (+1 or 2%, i.e. enough to win) is braindead or flat-out doesn't give a damn. That VERY slim majority is evolving into domestic enemies, Quisling Fifth Columnists. I don't care anymore, I'll not make my peace with those assholes that will bring us The Cunt in a few months' time.
Just got done reading the report. As John Boyd once observed, "I could **** up and do better than that."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMQPeovhP7w
Wait... so you think she was doing espionage?
I know... "never let a crisis go to waste" and all, but the exploitation of the victims "to deny her the presidency" is a disgrace for the GOP. Plus it backfired.
Doing Espionage?
Have you even read the law? You may not like the legal definition of "espionage" under the Espionage Act, but it is the definitive definition and interpretation of the word. You can change a definition in the dictionary without amending or repealing a law, but you cannot do that with a federal law. She violated the Espionage Act, because she did something she knew as a lawyer to be illegal and never reported it as required under the law. Without the FOIA lawsuit brought by Judicial Watch, it never would've been uncovered. Since she exposed the United States to grave damage by her reckless and inexcusable disregard for the law and her sworn duty as SoS, yes she committed espionage!
As for the victims, if I was one of the deceased's family, I don't think I'd call this "exploitation". I think I'd call it a reckoning, and not even a very harsh one at that! :mad:
I see. Thanks for answering my question and Outlander for citing actual statute. I did not know.
Also, please don't call him "CommieKev". I can see that he would want any charges to be cut and dry and removed from political influence.
As a private person, I can and do hate Clinton. But if I were a federal prosecutor, I would rather everything be objective and cut and dry.
That would be utterly impossible under the circumstances. You have a senior political appointee who's running for POTUS, being investigated by senior political appointees of the same administration that appointed her, while also being investigated by a separate, adversarial branch of government under the control of the opposition. Utterly impossible even under the best of circumstances, which is a far cry from where we're at today. :(
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-28-16, 23:12
That would be utterly impossible under the circumstances. You have a senior political appointee who's running for POTUS, being investigated by senior political appointees of the same administration that appointed her, while also being investigated by a separate, adversarial branch of government under the control of the opposition. Utterly impossible even under the best of circumstances, which is a far cry from where we're at today. :(
What ever happened to the Independent Counsels? I seem to remember that the law ran out- or was it just that people were tired of it? That's what you need to have to get to the bottom of these things- and bring charges without having Loretta Twit or Barry nix it. These guys side step congressional stuff pretty much forever.
We know she is guilty of various negligent liabilities, the question is whether or not they meet the deliberate indifference standard of review. While most often applied to violation of civil rights, it is completely applicable here.
I believe the standard has been met, twofold.
We know she is guilty of various negligent liabilities, the question is whether or not they meet the deliberate indifference standard of review. While most often applied to violation of civil rights, it is completely applicable here.
I believe the standard has been met, twofold.
Won't matter. The report will actually vindicate her and she will be immune to criticism from this point forward. Just like when Sander's comment about her "damn emails" pretty much put that behind her once and for all. That's how "pop culture" elections work.
Won't matter. The report will actually vindicate her and she will be immune to criticism from this point forward. Just like when Sander's comment about her "damn emails" pretty much put that behind her once and for all. That's how "pop culture" elections work.
Sadly, this is true, and disgusting as well as a complete mockery of lady justice.
We know she is guilty of various negligent liabilities, the question is whether or not they meet the deliberate indifference standard of review. While most often applied to violation of civil rights, it is completely applicable here.
I believe the standard has been met, twofold.
To bring someone like her down, needs to be fivefold.
Supposedly from this report. Again, a total failure of leadership and incompetence. It seems across the board "U.S. government officials" were the major problem in the response. Are the officials named? What of the supposed AC-130 that was ready to go? If these idiots waste 3 hours or so making Marines change in and out of uniforms, what else did they delay or prevent? How far up the food chain did it go? Patrick Kennedy, the State Department's undersecretary is mentioned.
Marines responding to Benghazi were held up by debate on weapons and uniforms, commander says
Spain-based Marines trying to respond to the 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya, were delayed for three hours as U.S. government officials debated whether they should wear their uniforms and carry weapons, according to Tuesday's report from the House Benghazi Committee.
The platoon commander of a fleet anti-terrorism security team, which can be dispatched to embassies and consulates in times of crises, told the committee that his Marines changed into and out of their uniforms four times on the plane before taking off for Libya, the report states.
The team did not arrive there until 23 hours after the Sept. 11, 2012, attacks that killed four Americans, including U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens.
Cont:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2016/06/28/marines-responding-benghazi-were-held-up-debate-weapons-and-uniforms-commander-says/86478466/
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-29-16, 09:03
Since when does something have to be criminal to end their chances of being president? Is that the new standard? People died, the leadership was incompetent, but it wasn't criminal, so let's move on...
The whole lying about the attack in the press afterwards is a damning fact.
But no controlling legal authority.....
Too bad we didn't have Fitzgerald on this one. Scooter Libby must be scratching his head on this one.
I'm at the point I would vote for Bin Ladins soggy corpse if it would guarantee Hilldog would never see the oval office......
Just another day in the wretched hive of scum and villainy...
I guess this is what "whatever" looks like, put into practice.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-29-16, 12:41
The platoon commander of a fleet anti-terrorism security team, which can be dispatched to embassies and consulates in times of crises, told the committee that his Marines changed into and out of their uniforms four times on the plane before taking off for Libya, the report states.
If people hadn't died, that would be a funny Benny Hill skit.
What should you wear? If you are going to fight, CLASH darling!
yeah but some want you not to mention muslims along with terrorism as they do not belong together
and some folks believe islamist the only extreme in them is the need for soup kitchens ! and jihad means helping the needy at those soup kitchens
agree clinton is the owner %100 of this tragedy but to her its just a LONG LONG list of dead bodies and soldiers are on the lowest low to her
Clinton is directly relevant to Benghazi as Reno was to Waco. Do you seriously think you could discuss Watergate without bringing Nixon into the discussion?
Moose-Knuckle
06-30-16, 03:12
It seems across the board "U.S. government officials" were the major problem in the response. Are the officials named? What of the supposed AC-130 that was ready to go?
I seem to recall another time that a Clinton denied AC-130 CAS of US assents in Africa, this appears to becoming a habit for them.
platoonDaddy
07-01-16, 11:48
A NY Times article published on 06/28/2016 and written by David M. Herszenhorn included this statement:
“At a news conference at the Capitol on Tuesday, Mr. Gowdy praised as heroes the Americans who died in the attacks on Sept. 11, 2012. They included Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and Sean Smith, a State Department information officer, who were killed at the main American diplomatic compound in Benghazi by a mob of militia fighters who had been incited by an American-made video deriding the Prophet Muhammad.” [Emphasis Added]
What? That theory was disproved but yet the NYT is still misreporting it as fact in an article supportive of Hillary. Gowdy did NOT say that. It shows again that the media intentionally lies in support of their political positions.
I have come to the conclusion that the Country I was raised in does not exist any longer. It was replaced by some corrupt, evil, totalitarian, Progressive Marxist entity that is collapsing with the support of it's own ignorant population. I think I'll keep traditional American values in my own little part of the world, while everything else goes to Hell all around. There is no way that evil Bitch should be elected, but in this new America, she's perfect for the job. And if she is elected, we know we've reached the point of no return.
I have come to the conclusion that the Country I was raised in does not exist any longer. It was replaced by some corrupt, evil, totalitarian, Progressive Marxist entity that is collapsing with the support of it's own ignorant population. I think I'll keep traditional American values in my own little part of the world, while everything else goes to Hell all around. There is no way that evil Bitch should be elected, but in this new America, she's perfect for the job. And if she is elected, we know we've reached the point of no return.
The point of no return was reached 8 years ago. What you are witnessing is the slow deterioration phase of our decline. It will accelerate at some point no matter who wins in November. Prepare yourself accordingly.
Supposedly from this report. Again, a total failure of leadership and incompetence. It seems across the board "U.S. government officials" were the major problem in the response. Are the officials named? What of the supposed AC-130 that was ready to go? If these idiots waste 3 hours or so making Marines change in and out of uniforms, what else did they delay or prevent? How far up the food chain did it go? Patrick Kennedy, the State Department's undersecretary is mentioned.
Marines responding to Benghazi were held up by debate on weapons and uniforms, commander says
Spain-based Marines trying to respond to the 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya, were delayed for three hours as U.S. government officials debated whether they should wear their uniforms and carry weapons, according to Tuesday's report from the House Benghazi Committee.
The platoon commander of a fleet anti-terrorism security team, which can be dispatched to embassies and consulates in times of crises, told the committee that his Marines changed into and out of their uniforms four times on the plane before taking off for Libya, the report states.
The team did not arrive there until 23 hours after the Sept. 11, 2012, attacks that killed four Americans, including U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens.
Cont:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2016/06/28/marines-responding-benghazi-were-held-up-debate-weapons-and-uniforms-commander-says/86478466/
Military assets were on hold all over the Med. Here's my question: If we, the US, are willing to spend a gazillion dollars to ship/fly DEVGRU/CAG around the world to rescue a missionary, why couldn't we, or wouldn't we, do the same in this situation? Even a fly-by or two just to give the booger-eaters pause may have helped.
The point of no return was reached 8 years ago. What you are witnessing is the slow deterioration phase of our decline. It will accelerate at some point no matter who wins in November. Prepare yourself accordingly.
What's surprising are the attacks against our traditions, history, American Culture, are coming from everywhere. The smallest thing like being forced to take down American Flags at your place of business because some municipality doesn't like it, some 9 year old kid makes a comment in school about brownies, and the police are called. These are just a two examples. It's like the entire fabric of America has been riddled with holes and the Progressive Left will finish it off with fire or just tear it down.
I used to think there was some silent majority out there ready to say enough is enough and rise up and vote every last one of these evil progressives out. Now I am starting to wonder if the traditional American is now a minority? If that is true then we are Patriots without a Country. The America I knew has moved on in a different direction, and all we have left is to keep what made us a great Nation close to home, and continue to live those ideals in our private lives. That could mean keeping a low profile and flying under the radar of any new laws or edicts in violation of the Constitution as it was.
Military assets were on hold all over the Med.
But has that been confirmed? It seems a ghost target. Under who's authority? We here X was ready to go, and told to stand down (by whom is unclear, yet there's a specific COC for that no?) and then it either goes poof and disappears, or we are told it's not true, X was not on stand by and told to stand down and no where near that AO to respond. I have not read this report, just snippets. Does it state specifically who/what was GTG and then told to stand down? If so, who gave that order? It's been claimed repeatedly assets arrived as soon as they could, you know, after hours of being told to change clothes and such.
Here's my question: If we, the US, are willing to spend a gazillion dollars to ship/fly DEVGRU/CAG around the world to rescue a missionary, why couldn't we, or wouldn't we, do the same in this situation? Even a fly-by or two just to give the booger-eaters pause may have helped.
Or they could have shown up to kill every mother f-er in the area on general principles with "more of that to come" leaflets dropped. Killing a US Ambassador is an act of war.
But has that been confirmed? It seems a ghost target. Under who's authority? We here X was ready to go, and told to stand down (by whom is unclear, yet there's a specific COC for that no?) and then it either goes poof and disappears, or we are told it's not true, X was not on stand by and told to stand down and no where near that AO to respond. I have not read this report, just snippets. Does it state specifically who/what was GTG and then told to stand down? If so, who gave that order? It's been claimed repeatedly assets arrived as soon as they could, you know, after hours of being told to change clothes and such.
Or they could have shown up to kill every mother f-er in the area on general principles with "more of that to come" leaflets dropped. Killing a US Ambassador is an act of war.
Great questions. I don't know who said what to whom and when. I haven't read the report; just don't care to. I DO know that Marine Corps, Air Force, and Army assets were mobilizing throughout the Med and in Africa.
Yeah, I don't know (or rather, lack understanding) about the arbitrary nature of when our Dear Leaders decide to send in the cavalry to rescue Americans.
As ****ed up as the rescue attempt for Iran was, at least we had the guts to try.
What's surprising are the attacks against our traditions, history, American Culture, are coming from everywhere. The smallest thing like being forced to take down American Flags at your place of business because some municipality doesn't like it, some 9 year old kid makes a comment in school about brownies, and the police are called. These are just a two examples. It's like the entire fabric of America has been riddled with holes and the Progressive Left will finish it off with fire or just tear it down.
I used to think there was some silent majority out there ready to say enough is enough and rise up and vote every last one of these evil progressives out. Now I am starting to wonder if the traditional American is now a minority? If that is true then we are Patriots without a Country. The America I knew has moved on in a different direction, and all we have left is to keep what made us a great Nation close to home, and continue to live those ideals in our private lives. That could mean keeping a low profile and flying under the radar of any new laws or edicts in violation of the Constitution as it was.
I listen to talk radio during the week on my drive to and from work. The other day one show had a historian on who said most republics don't survive their third century of existence. Hmmm, we're what, 240 years old?
But has that been confirmed? It seems a ghost target. Under who's authority? We here X was ready to go, and told to stand down (by whom is unclear, yet there's a specific COC for that no?) and then it either goes poof and disappears, or we are told it's not true, X was not on stand by and told to stand down and no where near that AO to respond. I have not read this report, just snippets. Does it state specifically who/what was GTG and then told to stand down? If so, who gave that order? It's been claimed repeatedly assets arrived as soon as they could, you know, after hours of being told to change clothes and such.
Or they could have shown up to kill every mother f-er in the area on general principles with "more of that to come" leaflets dropped. Killing a US Ambassador is an act of war.
It just doesn't matter. As I've stated multiple times, why no 6th Fleet picket ship on patrol in the area on the anniversary of 9/11, when we had all the signs indicating the area was tense in the weeks leading up to the attack?
It. Just. Doesn't. Matter. Whether through inability, inaction or actively prevented, the mere fact that NO ONE was sent to relieve the CIA annex from an active, ongoing assault is iron clad proof of incompetence. :mad:
It just doesn't matter. As I've stated multiple times, why no 6th Fleet picket ship on patrol in the area on the anniversary of 9/11, when we had all the signs indicating the area was tense in the weeks leading up to the attack?
It. Just. Doesn't. Matter. Whether through inability, inaction or actively prevented, the mere fact that NO ONE was sent to relieve the CIA annex from an active, ongoing assault is iron clad proof of incompetence. :mad:
I disagree. It's a given that it happened at all for reasons you outlined is proof of incompetence. That goes without saying.
That's a very different issue than there being assets that could respond and were actively told to stand down, as has been consistently alluded to. No sir, that's not the same and It. Does. Matter as one is incompetence, the other potentially raising to the level of criminal negligence if it can be shown it was done intentionally and why.
I'm not one who thinks HC was personally one the phone directing it, but we should know if there were any assets able to respond who were actively prevented from doing so, either to incompetence, poor communication, fog O war, or something else.
There's incompetence and there's incompetence....Those men and their families and the US citizens deserve an answer to that. Where there assets who could have responded in the AO or not? If so, why didn't they? If they were mobilized and told to stand down, on who's f-ing authority? Someone needs to account.
I disagree. It's a given that it happened at all for reasons you outlined is proof of incompetence. That goes without saying.
That's a very different issue than there being assets that could respond and were actively told to stand down, as has been consistently alluded to. No sir, that's not the same and It. Does. Matter as one is incompetence, the other potentially raising to the level of criminal negligence if it can be shown it was done intentionally and why.
I'm not one who thinks HC was personally one the phone directing it, but we should know if there were any assets able to respond who were actively prevented from doing so, either to incompetence, poor communication, fog O war, or something else.
There's incompetence and there's incompetence....Those men and their families and the US citizens deserve an answer to that. Where there assets who could have responded in the AO or not? If so, why didn't they? If they were mobilized and told to stand down, on who's f-ing authority? Someone needs to account.
The guys who ultimately did arrive to help did so after basically disobeying orders. A Navy Cross and Distinguished Service Cross were quietly awarded to those CAG guys (the DSC was an Army guy but the NC was a MARSOC guy assigned to CAG.....doesn't matter, all the same team).
Great questions. I don't know who said what to whom and when. I haven't read the report; just don't care to. I DO know that Marine Corps, Air Force, and Army assets were mobilizing throughout the Med and in Africa.
Yeah, I don't know (or rather, lack understanding) about the arbitrary nature of when our Dear Leaders decide to send in the cavalry to rescue Americans.
As ****ed up as the rescue attempt for Iran was, at least we had the guts to try.
The 173rd was in A'stan or would have been well positioned to respond. They now maintain a response unit as a learning from this. Also, from memory, just prior we had sent some Spec OPs into Somalia to try to guarantee us civvy exits and had taken fire on the helos, etc. So there was legit concern about sending a small force.
I don't buy there was nothing we could do. I do buy that sadly, there was no planning for this type issue at the time and we were caught flat footed. And that optics/lack of leadership heavily compounded the issue. Ie: even a company sized element was on hot standby I'm not sure they would have used it.
The guys who ultimately did arrive to help did so after basically disobeying orders. A Navy Cross and Distinguished Service Cross were quietly awarded to those CAG guys (the DSC was an Army guy but the NC was a MARSOC guy assigned to CAG.....doesn't matter, all the same team).
There's been consistent talk of others being very close to doing the same, a particular ships captain comes to mind I'd heard was very angry, yet it's all gone poof. Rumor? Suppressed truth? If true, if just one came forward.
Averageman
07-01-16, 15:26
The 173rd was in A'stan or would have been well positioned to respond. They now maintain a response unit as a learning from this. Also, from memory, just prior we had sent some Spec OPs into Somalia to try to guarantee us civvy exits and had taken fire on the helos, etc. So there was legit concern about sending a small force.
I don't buy there was nothing we could do. I do buy that sadly, there was no planning for this type issue at the time and we were caught flat footed. And that optics/lack of leadership heavily compounded the issue. Ie: even a company sized element was on hot standby I'm not sure they would have used it.
I think it may well be more of a need with this administration to micromanage any/all military action.
Being that this group in charge was leading the way with anything and everything "Arab Spring" the idea that after helping Libya get rid of Qaddafi, perhaps the last thing they wanted was for this to escalate and when it did the first thing they tried to do was shift the blame.
On the other side of that, just how reasonable and aware of the risks was the Ambassador? I've heard some conflicting stories, everything from he was begging for back up for months to, he felt safe going to this meeting. You aren't able to have it both ways, it is what it is.
The SNAFU on the ground happened because of conflicting information and an inability to recognize when it was time to take action. Add in incompetent leadership (Likely being driven by the administrations narratives and basic directions) and it was set up for disaster.
We sometimes have wildly conflicting foreign policies from administration to administration, this makes us very vulnerable to these types of things. Being that our State Department was being run by someone so in over her head she was clueless, she now wants to be POTUS and lead us forward.
I have to tell you, I dont think this is the time to be at the point of the spear, I have no doubt you will be written off as a loss before She will stand up and be accountable.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-01-16, 17:17
Too bad the attack didn't happen on a day when we could have expected trouble...
It's like the DOD struggles to figure out when to set up the Santa tracking....
These guys are worse with remembering anniversaries than I am...
No armed Predator or an AC-130? An AC-130 is like strippers and Tequila at a bachelor party.... somebody is going to get blown.
Some info on current plans:
https://warisboring.com/these-fast-acting-response-forces-could-prevent-another-benghazi-81a9aa6ecd73#.ffsod5uwo
Dist. Expert 26
07-01-16, 19:27
I was on the 24th MEU when the attack took place. At the time, the ship I was on was off the eastern coast of Africa. By my calculations we could have made it to Benghazi in time provided arial refuelling assets were available. There was also a platoon from my company in Djibouti who could have got on C-130s and arrived significantly sooner.
None of us were told to stand down because we were never stood up for a mission. They had no intention of rescuing those men.
I was on the 24th MEU when the attack took place. At the time, the ship I was on was off the eastern coast of Africa. By my calculations we could have made it to Benghazi in time provided arial refuelling assets were available. There was also a platoon from my company in Djibouti who could have got on C-130s and arrived significantly sooner.
None of us were told to stand down because we were never stood up for a mission. They had no intention of rescuing those men.
And that's the money statement
So lesson is never put Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton in charge of your security? (Not going to read report. I don't know any of their minions.)
This fits well with the picture painted in the book by the Secret Service agent I'm reading right now. ("Crisis of Character") Totally bereft of leadership and condescending, behind closed doors, toward the Military, LE and anyone else they think isn't at their level of sophistication.
The lying wench cannot be allowed to be elected.
As I understand it, by simply installing the private server, which she intended to use for work, Killary did enough to be charged criminally .
I cannot even begin to imagine the world of s*** I would be in if I even took one piece of classified paperwork out of the office and through my home where it was unsecured much less anything that comes close to this.
And after the way the Benghazi report reads, how she can even still be considered for the POTUS position is beyond me
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