Breaking: Explosions and gunfire at Ataturk airport (Istanbul, Turkey) [Archive]

WillBrink

06-28-16, 14:45

At least two explosions and gunfire have rocked Istanbul's Ataturk international airport, with reports of "multiple" people injured.

Gunfire was directed from an airport car park, according to a witness quoted by Reuters news agency.

Taxis were ferrying wounded people from the airport, the witness added.

In December, a blast on the tarmac at a different Istanbul airport, Sabiha Gokcen, killed a cleaner.

Recent bomb attacks in Turkey have been linked to Kurdish separatists or the Islamic State group.

A US State Department travel warning for Turkey, originally published in March and updated on Monday, urges US citizens to "exercise heightened vigilance and caution when visiting public access areas, especially those heavily frequented by tourists."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36658187

streck

06-28-16, 15:08

Clearly this is backlash against American homophobia and our imperialism made them do it.

nova3930

06-28-16, 15:09

Clearly this is backlash against American homophobia and our imperialism made them do it.

When does Barack go on TV to blame us and the NRA?

Sam

06-28-16, 15:12

TAZ

06-28-16, 15:14

If Trump would stop talking about making America Great Again, these people would not have done this. They were offended by the concept that a potential presidential candidate would break with the current administrations policies and stop apologizing for shit.

Guess the no bombs signs weren't big enough.

Firefly

06-28-16, 15:34

Part of me hopes it was a Spetsnaz outfit, but really it was probably Turkish people doing Turkish things.

However, yes....NRA and Trump did it again.

austinN4

06-28-16, 15:36

A US State Department travel warning for Turkey, originally published in March and updated on Monday, urges US citizens to "exercise heightened vigilance and caution when visiting public access areas, especially those heavily frequented by tourists."

SteyrAUG

06-28-16, 15:39

Can't see it being ISIS since Turkey is doing everything they can to support ISIS efforts.

Could be the Kurds. Doubt it was the Russians but would love it if true.

Firefly

06-28-16, 15:46

If it were the Kurds then they are toast.

They are Fort Apache against ISIS and Turkey will whine and cry to NATO and EU and what paltry supplies they were getting will stop.

Whiskey_Bravo

06-28-16, 15:52

Trump's fault?

Is this the work of the religion of peace? or is it just hate crime (Turkish variety)?

Will the Turkish lawmakers have an all night sit in to protest the easy availability of explosives? maybe John Lewis can go advise them on how to do that.

Just soup kitchen jihadism....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664710/Two-explosions-gunfire-Istanbul-s-Ataturk-airport-cause-multiple-injuries.html

WickedWillis

06-28-16, 16:58

28 confirmed dead at this point. Seems to be a weekly mainstream attack lately.

SteyrAUG

06-28-16, 17:00

28 confirmed dead at this point. Seems to be a weekly mainstream attack lately.

Ramadan

jpmuscle

06-28-16, 17:36

Last report I saw said atleast 50 confirmed deceased.

gunrunner505

06-28-16, 17:58

Those pesky Christians blowing things up again.

Barry and the democrats aren't going to stop until one of their poor misunderstood Musloids pull this same shit at a major US airport, like O'Hare, during thanksgiving travel or something. They'll still blame the NRA though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ForTehNguyen

06-28-16, 18:33

potential causes:
internet video
they were angry that they were gay
US guns

Relgion of Pieces strikes again

tb-av

06-28-16, 19:29

2:35 a.m.
Turkey's Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag says at least 31 people have been killed and some 147 wounded in the attack on Istanbul's Ataturk airport.
Another senior government official says the death toll could climb much higher.
The senior official at first said close to 50 people had already died, but later said that the figure was expected to rise to close to 50.
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity in line with government protocol, also said all initial indications suggest the Islamic State group was behind the attack.

3:10
36 now

Koshinn

06-28-16, 19:33

Does anyone else think Erdogan could have set up the attack on his own people?

Ledanek

06-28-16, 19:34

@20:08, 36 killed @RT.com

Outlander Systems

06-28-16, 19:35

My immediate thought was Russian False-Flag...

...but I'm going with Trump's latest tweet as the cause.

Part of me hopes it was a Spetsnaz outfit, but really it was probably Turkish people doing Turkish things.

However, yes....NRA and Trump did it again.

Koshinn

06-28-16, 19:43

My immediate thought was Russian False-Flag...

Because of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvHvYZNtbQQ

Outlander Systems

06-28-16, 20:07

Hahaha. Negative. I'm an Atari guy, myself.

Mostly from the, "Who immediately benefits" angle...

Whiskey_Bravo

06-28-16, 20:49

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664710/Two-explosions-gunfire-Istanbul-s-Ataturk-airport-cause-multiple-injuries.html

36 confirmed dead 147 injured. Saying 3 attackers.

jpmuscle

06-28-16, 21:24

So who pit up the anti Islamic YouTube video that inspired this protest turned coordinated application of violence and weaponry? Or does a difference it not make?

Mauser KAR98K

06-28-16, 22:41

So who pit up the anti Islamic YouTube video that inspired this protest turned coordinated application of violence and weaponry? Or does a difference it not make?

I'd be more concerned if the Turks blame the Kurds.

SteyrAUG

06-28-16, 23:03

I'd be more concerned if the Turks blame the Kurds.

Wouldn't surprise me to learn ISIS did it, denied it and let the blame fall on the Kurds. That way Turkey can help them even more. Maybe get the US to cut off all support and perhaps donate an airstrike or two. After all Turkey is our ally and would never screw us.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

06-28-16, 23:10

Youtube video to blame this time?

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-28-16, 23:29

Can't see it being ISIS since Turkey is doing everything they can to support ISIS efforts.

Could be the Kurds. Doubt it was the Russians but would love it if true.

How does it benefit Russians? I understand that they wouldn't mind some dead Turks. With Russian tourist money drying up, taking out the other western tourists desire to come would hurt a lot.

Youtube video to blame this time?

Damn Kanye...

Occams Razor? Probably ISIS being ISIS.

Dead man's switch on the guy who got shot and fell down, or did he have to trigger it? I would think a deadman's switch of some kind, a timer if nothing else. Be nice to know so that shooters know to mag dump on the guy to prevent a bombing.

Did all three bombs go off? These peroxide bombs have had a low BOOM rate it seems in the last attacks. If that is changing- or they are using something else- that would be interesting. I assume getting semtex in Turkey is easier than getting it in Paris.

SteyrAUG

06-29-16, 00:19

How does it benefit Russians? I understand that they wouldn't mind some dead Turks. With Russian tourist money drying up, taking out the other western tourists desire to come would hurt a lot.

Russians are allied with Assad against ISIS. Turkey is very much part of the ISIS team. I don't think those were Russian blowing up in the airport, but I could see Russia helping to fund / facilitate the attack. Not like Obama is going to do anything about it if they did have a hand in it.

BoringGuy45

06-29-16, 00:41

Russians are allied with Assad against ISIS. Turkey is very much part of the ISIS team. I don't think those were Russian blowing up in the airport, but I could see Russia helping to fund / facilitate the attack. Not like Obama is going to do anything about it if they did have a hand in it.

Putin could go Red Dawn on the U.S. mainland and Obama wouldn't do anything about it, except maybe lend a hand in confiscating American guns.

At any rate, this has all the marking of ISIS. The Kurds don't do suicide vests, and if Russia attacks someone, it's usually much more strategic than just random acts of carnage. It's true that Turkey has taken a more hardline Islamic stance in recent years. But that said, I still think this is ISIS. We're talking about the group that considers al-Qaeda and the Taliban too soft. They rank an unchallenged #1 for Islamic extremism in the world. They don't do diplomacy or allies. They are the Borg: You assimilate to them, they don't join forces with you. While Turkey has gotten more Islamic, Istanbul is a major global, semi-Westernized, cosmopolitan city. It's more European than Middle Eastern and thus, it is a stench in the nostrils of ISIS, regardless of what the national government feels toward them.

KalashniKEV

06-29-16, 08:50

I got a Facebook safe check in from one of my friends, who I did not expect to be in Turkey.

Apparently just as his plane was touching down for a stopover as the attack occurred.

Crazy stuff.

Just soup kitchen jihadism....

This is clearly Jihad bis Saif... not Jihad bil yad.

Your ignorance of the current conflict is not something you should want to flaunt... well, outside of the "Hurrr, hurr, hurr" nugget eating crowd.

Outlander Systems

06-29-16, 09:01

Come on, dude. You knew that Soup Kitchen shit would go down in the annals of M4C Memetic history...

:)

I got a Facebook safe check in from one of my friends, who I did not expect to be in Turkey.

Apparently just as his plane was touching down for a stopover as the attack occurred.

Crazy stuff.

This is clearly Jihad bis Saif... not Jihad bil yad.

Your ignorance of the current conflict is not something you should want to flaunt... well, outside of the "Hurrr, hurr, hurr" nugget eating crowd.

KalashniKEV

06-29-16, 09:02

Can't see it being ISIS since Turkey is doing everything they can to support ISIS efforts.

Turkey supports ISIS because they get Saudi $$$$$$$$ for shuttling recruits to the border (on tour buses, no less) and they used to get cheap oil from ISIS (before Putin destroyed 800 18 wheeler tanker trucks in a week).

Turkey is no longer useful to ISIS.

Now they're just Anathol province of the Caliphate.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/30/article-2674736-1F46221200000578-100_634x381.jpg

KalashniKEV

06-29-16, 09:52

Anecdote from my friend's FB:

Flights are grounded, passengers are checking into hotels, trying to get flight info, total chaos...

Super-packed hotel lobby, and a Saudi guy keeps trying to cut the line and interrupt the desk girl- she tells him angrily for the last time to wait his turn.

He doesn't move, but asks her quietly and politely, "Where is shisha in here?"

She's like, "WHAT!?! What in hell is a shisha???"

"ummmm... nargile..."

LOL! Terror strikes, chaos reigns, and the fat Saudi man in a dress wants to smoke hookah. People laughed.

tb-av

06-29-16, 10:00

Not like Obama is going to do anything about it if they did have a hand in it.

Looks like somebody is trying to tie him into yet another fast and furious...

http://conservativetribune.com/istanbul-terror-investigation/

Quite a stretch, but could you imagine if they could tie those guns in... I don;t think even Obama could brush that one off. Hillary could though, so i suppose even if it were true it still wouldn't matter.

KalashniKEV

06-29-16, 10:12

Looks like somebody is trying to tie him into yet another fast and furious...

http://conservativetribune.com/istanbul-terror-investigation/

Quite a stretch, but could you imagine if they could tie those guns in... I don;t think even Obama could brush that one off. Hillary could though, so i suppose even if it were true it still wouldn't matter.

That's actually the dumbest spin/ leap I've ever seen, even online... "Kalashnikov rifles were used" in the Middle East... so they must have come from our stolen arms shipment... and it's the fault of the POTUS that our shipment got stolen en route... so the POTUS is responsible for the attack... and the Clinton connection is (????)

Please share this story on Facebook and Twitter and let us know what you think about authorities in Istanbul finding a Kalashnikov assault rifle that could very well have been obtained by the terrorists courtesy the Obama administration!

tb-av

06-29-16, 10:17

Sorry... I should have used a smiley..... I figured everyone would accept it as ridiculous... Even so though, IF Obama and Hillary personally handed the weapons to those terrorists, a great deal of America would still vote for them and support them.

glocktogo

06-29-16, 10:35

That's actually the dumbest spin/ leap I've ever seen, even online... "Kalashnikov rifles were used" in the Middle East... so they must have come from our stolen arms shipment... and it's the fault of the POTUS that our shipment got stolen en route... so the POTUS is responsible for the attack... and the Clinton connection is (????)

The United States government is woefully pathetic when it comes to arms accountability. We hand them out like a pedophile hands out free candy to children. Well, to everyone except American citizens. They must be kept out of our hands because democracy and civil rights demand it! :(

I agree the article is trash and lacks any evidence, but would it really shock you if arms used in a terrorist attack were traced back to the U.S. gov't? That's a serious question BTW.

KalashniKEV

06-29-16, 10:55

...would it really shock you if arms used in a terrorist attack were traced back to the U.S. gov't? That's a serious question BTW.

This is a serious answer: No.

So, if the AK is one of the milled Bulgarians we gave out in OIF-IV, is it on Bush, and if it's one of the stamped Romanians we give out now, it's on Obama??

Says who?

I swear... some of you guys could analyze a flat tire through the Partisan Hate Machine and come up with why it's Obama's fault.

WickedWillis

06-29-16, 11:10

Big A

06-29-16, 11:20

platoonDaddy

06-29-16, 11:31

Boltneck said the attacks are a sign of ISIS desperation. Another POS of shit on the obama bandwagon.

glocktogo

06-29-16, 11:57

This is a serious answer: No.

So, if the AK is one of the milled Bulgarians we gave out in OIF-IV, is it on Bush, and if it's one of the stamped Romanians we give out now, it's on Obama??

Says who?

I swear... some of you guys could analyze a flat tire through the Partisan Hate Machine and come up with why it's Obama's fault.

Or is it the fault of career DoS and CIA officials who recommend these actions? So when was the last time we gave weapons to regimes that didn't fall into enemy hands. Korea? All the Iraq war materials that fell into the hands of ISIS could fall on both Bush and Obama. But I didn't balame Bush or Obama, I said the "U.S. government". I said "we". At what point do we as a nation realize that it's never a good idea to give weapons to unstable regimes and groups? :confused:

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-29-16, 12:38

Any word on the explosive used?

KalashniKEV

06-29-16, 12:53

Or is it the fault of career DoS and CIA officials who recommend these actions?

Bingo.

The CIA can't stay mad at al Qaeda, even after 9/11- it's their son.

They have an agenda, but no military capability to carry it out- they use al Qaeda as a weapon against the old guard strongmen who provided them with such wonderful distraction during the post-Cold War, early in their careers.

DoS is severely fractured between a gay-ocracy who just wants to get posted in cool places with good DJs, and a bunch of Chickenhawks led by a few GWOT dropouts.

Both the CIA and the DoS hawk faction lament the fact that they are not in the military- standing tall, looking good, and dishing out Freedom and Charms to the sullen peoples of the planet, so they've teamed up to destroy the world together just so they have something to do.

That's it. There is no desired endstate. It's just so they have something to do. Evil.

So when was the last time we gave weapons to regimes that didn't fall into enemy hands. Korea? All the Iraq war materials that fell into the hands of ISIS could fall on both Bush and Obama. But I didn't balame Bush or Obama...

I wasn't responding directly to your comments, but more to the wacky, yarn-on-thumbtacks, pound another redbull, blame it on Obama spin.

As far as "the last time we gave weapons to regimes that didn't fall into enemy hands..." you would have to review the actual facts:

Countries we gave weapons to:

All. Every single goddamn country.

Weapons that fell into the hands of the enemy:

4th IA Division
Some onesee twosee crap in AFG

It would be pretty fantastical to play the game and never take setbacks or losses. The other option of course is to quit the game, and lose by default.

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-29-16, 18:45

It would be pretty fantastical to play the game and never take setbacks or losses. The other option of course is to quit the game, and lose by default.

What do you mean by this?

ForTehNguyen

06-29-16, 18:56

dont worry guys Obozo says ISIS is losing ground

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/29/obama-istanbul-ottawa-islamic-state-terrorism/86516076/

jpmuscle

06-29-16, 18:58

What do you mean by this?
Geopolitical chess is my guess

Benito

06-29-16, 20:28

Clearly this is backlash against American homophobia and our imperialism made them do it.

Don't forget the Crusades. Bro, do you even dhimmi?

Just soup kitchen jihadism....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3664710/Two-explosions-gunfire-Istanbul-s-Ataturk-airport-cause-multiple-injuries.html

They must have accidentally mixed up soup ingredients with explosives. Hey, it happens.

I got a Facebook safe check in from one of my friends, who I did not expect to be in Turkey.

Apparently just as his plane was touching down for a stopover as the attack occurred.

Crazy stuff.

This is clearly Jihad bis Saif... not Jihad bil yad.

Your ignorance of the current conflict is not something you should want to flaunt... well, outside of the "Hurrr, hurr, hurr" nugget eating crowd.

Well I'm glad your buddy is safe, but jihad is jihad. Islam spreads by the sword, is enforced by the sword, and can only be defeated by the sword.

SteyrAUG

06-29-16, 21:30

Well I'm glad your buddy is safe, but jihad is jihad. Islam spreads by the sword, is enforced by the sword, and can only be defeated by the sword.

https://creepingsharia.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/campbellsoupkidz.jpg?w=517&h=511

KalashniKEV

06-30-16, 08:07

Big A

06-30-16, 08:23

Geopolitical chess is my guess

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2514460/shall-we-play-a-game-o.gif

chuckman

06-30-16, 08:45

They have an agenda, but no military capability to carry it out- they use al Qaeda as a weapon against the old guard strongmen who provided them with such wonderful distraction during the post-Cold War, early in their careers.

DoS is severely fractured between a gay-ocracy who just wants to get posted in cool places with good DJs, and a bunch of Chickenhawks led by a few GWOT dropouts.

Both the CIA and the DoS hawk faction lament the fact that they are not in the military- standing tall, looking good, and dishing out Freedom and Charms to the sullen peoples of the planet, so they've teamed up to destroy the world together just so they have something to do.

That's it. There is no desired endstate. It's just so they have something to do. Evil.

You give them far too much credit. A third of each group are careerists who will do as they are told by the political appointees; a third are marking time to check the box on the resume until they can split to the private sector; and a third have good intentions but way too little education and far too much responsibility. Kinda like giving a 6 year-old the car keys and a six-pack.

The "do-ers", the career case officers, the DSS guys, the SAD guys and GRS, just wanna do their jobs and go home.

KalashniKEV

06-30-16, 08:46

What do you mean by this?

Power flows from the barrel of a gun, and we give out a lot of guns.

We could have spent over a trillion dollars on tractors for farmers in Africa and advisors on how to use it and we'd be ahead by thousands and thousands of lives, the world would be a much better place, the whole produce section of every store on the east coast would come from West Africa. We'd be loved by... farmers in Africa.

We didn't. We spent a trillion dollars overthrowing the secular regime of a Middle Eastern country and knocking down a regional pillar of support- and also a lot of weapons and advisors on how to use them.

They lost those weapons to the instability we created. It was a bad play on the field, but you can't win every play.

I talk to some of the stupid fools who thought that post-Saddam Iraq would be a hardship tour like Korea, and would give us a power projection platform to dominate the Middle East and it's resources. They admit that they didn't know anything about Iraq, and that it was a the aligning interests of fraudsters like Achmed Chalabi and NeoCon New World Orderists combined with a weak minded president that led us to war.

It happened though, and the best we can do now is hold folks accountable for failure and learn from our mistakes so that they are never repeated.

Walking back from my favorite topic to the actual topic- Turkey thought they could make a play that would give them most-favored-nation status with the Islamic State, improve their relations with Saudi Arabia while getting that dirty Saudi money, obtain access to heavily discounted ISIS Oil, and their NATO membership would keep them safe. A bold play indeed! Especially when it came to shooting down Russian military aircraft!

Now it's starting to **** up on them.

You can't win every play. We must align with Putin and Assad to destroy the Islamic State and al Qaeda and make Turkey's loss as long, painful, and humiliating as possible- it's our duty to do so, because they need to learn the right lesson.

Outlander Systems

06-30-16, 08:52

Amen. But...

Never going to happen until we get solid civilian leadership.

The proud, self-righteous, soon-to-be-coronated Queen won't make deals with Russia. I expect 8 more years of the same shit.

We must align with Putin and Assad to destroy the Islamic State and al Qaeda and make Turkey's loss as long, painful, and humiliating as possible- it's our duty to do so, because they need to learn the right lesson.

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-30-16, 08:53

Well I'm glad your buddy is safe, but jihad is jihad. Islam spreads by the sword, is enforced by the sword, and can only be defeated by the sword.

LOL... that's like limpstroker sig-line-material right there.

Celebrating your ignorance of the topic and refusing to understand the conflict we're faced with is not going to get your voice heard.

What kind of intelligent discussion can you have with a person who immediately telegraphs that they don't know what they're talking about?

Just for you KEV ;)

Actually, if you think about it, what governing body doesn't? People here in the US pay their taxes and follow the law because otherwise people with guns show up and take you away. Intimidation and bombings were a hallmark of the Irish troubles. ISIS just takes it a new barbaric level. Like all governing bodies, it kills more of its own people than outsiders.

But to Benito's point, are you arguing that some passive Ghandi strategy is what is needed to counter ISIS? You aren't concerned about the illiberal and un-western views held by a large portion of people that have emigrated or are a few generations in. I'm sure you can point to some buddies that came over that blended in fine, but if you look at the broad polling, it isn't a great picture of integration and acceptance of western society. For people fleeing troubled homelands, a large portion of them seem to hold onto the views that they are escaping.

Outlander Systems

06-30-16, 09:02

That's awesome.

TAZ

06-30-16, 11:10

KalashniKEV

06-30-16, 11:47

But to Benito's point, are you arguing that some passive Ghandi strategy is what is needed to counter ISIS?

No, and I've never argued that... if you've been following.

I'm an advocate of smart power and realist foreign policy. Creating outcomes that favor the United States by only rational behavior that is in the interest of our people.

Are we really naive enough to think that giving away trillions in tractors would be better? Haven't we tried the whole nation building crap for like generations only to have it turn into wasted $$.

Read again, nobody said "Link up with a group of subversive Africans living in exile and send them in, along with some tractors, to destroy all existing agribusiness, enslave those who do the farming and force them to farm for the new subversive regime who knows nothing about farming- using the tractors you provided, and then send in your advisors to train the subversives as well as any former-farmer who will sign a denunciation form... oh and the new subversive regime promises to treat that guy nice if he does.

A bridge to nowhere or even a government sponsored, nationwide 4th of July BBQ gets you more than a war which does harm to the national interest... and at the same time strips you of money and soldier's lives. You could literally set $1T on fire, line up 2 thousand of your own soldiers and kill them, put 10k soldiers in jail for 18 months, and you'd come out ahead by billions of dollars, thousands of lives, and tens of thousands of wasted opportunity... and that is looking ONLY immediate, quantifiable losses and only American interests and not opening a portal to hell, triggering the migrant crisis, empowering our enemies.

I am with you 100% on the nation building, and I've only spoke of Iraq.

Together it's been the largest single blunder in the history of our country, and may still prove to be our undoing.

glocktogo

06-30-16, 11:48

Are we really naive enough to think that giving away trillions in tractors would be better? Haven't we tried the whole nation building crap for like generations only to have it turn into wasted $$.

There is something incredibly fundamental that we can't seem to wrap our little heads around. There are people (large numbers of them) who plane old fashioned hate us. Be that because of religion, culture, stupidity... whatever they just hate us. Nothing will change their minds. EVER. Those are folks who we should NOT be helping in any way shape or form. No new schools, no new wells, roads, farms. Not a ****ing thing. If they starve to death, die of thirst, kill each other off so be it. The world is over populated anyway.

There are people out there who's welcome aid and embrace it. Those are the folks that we need to help. We can help them with advisors, financial aid immigration... whatever mode is best.

Until we get that fundamental premise into our heads, we will continue along the nation building train wreck we are. Arming insurgents who turn around and kill us. Building up economies that fund terror campaigns.

Giving away farm implements and expertise is naïve on more than one level. First, anything given for free and not earned is generally taken for granted. For example, see Haiti. Second, anything given for free enables jealousy and rage on the part of those to whom its not given for free. Those people given the free stuff become unwitting targets of the ones not given free stuff. That's when the beatings, mutilations and killings happen, and the shiny new stuff either gets stolen or irreparably broken out of spite. Much wailing and lamentation ensues, beautiful gesture is rendered empty and hollow. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Without the ability and will to go in and savagely destroy without remorse, those savages who do this evil on their fellow man, beautiful ideas are meaningless. Better to take that trillion dollars and pay down the debt we're saddling our children with. That isn't giving something away for free, it's not taking something away for nothing worthwhile in return. :(

WickedWillis

06-30-16, 12:30

New report saying attackers were from Russia, Uzbekistan, and Kyrgyzstan.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-turkey-bombers-from-russia-uzbekistan-and-kyrgyzstan/ar-AAhO24J?li=BBnb7Kz

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-30-16, 13:29

Power flows from the barrel of a gun, and we give out a lot of guns.

We could have spent over a trillion dollars on tractors for farmers in Africa and advisors on how to use it and we'd be ahead by thousands and thousands of lives, the world would be a much better place, the whole produce section of every store on the east coast would come from West Africa. We'd be loved by... farmers in Africa.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Doesn't your first sentence negate the second paragraph? I agree, that would be a much better way to run the world, but the reality is that people with guns have the power. Give people tractors and the guys with the guns make the guys with the tractors work for them?

That is my basic difference with you on Iraq. W hit the reset switch and guys decided that they'd take guns and try to kill their way to power. So Iraqis being shit heads is W fault? They have all that oil and we would have helped them rebuild it and the decided to go full stupid.

If you hate W, I can't believe that you don't go off on FDR all the time. His insistence of starting the US policy of dismantling the european powers colonial systems is at the root of every conflict since Korea. It is why Africa is a basket case. Why the Middle East is a killing field and led to millions of deaths in Asia. W FUBAR'd a country, FDR lit the world on fire.

SteyrAUG

06-30-16, 13:54

We could have spent over a trillion dollars on tractors for farmers in Africa and advisors on how to use it and we'd be ahead by thousands and thousands of lives, the world would be a much better place, the whole produce section of every store on the east coast would come from West Africa. We'd be loved by... farmers in Africa.

If we are going to give away US tax dollars, why not give that free shit to US farmers and we could grow our own food here.

Firefly

06-30-16, 14:59

If we are going to give away US tax dollars, why not give that free shit to US farmers and we could grow our own food here.

This question bears repeating

austinN4

06-30-16, 15:01

If we are going to give away US tax dollars, why not give that free shit to US farmers and we could grow our own food here.

Because we (US Govt) prefer to pay them not to grow things.

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-30-16, 15:30

People starve in Africa because of guns in the wrong hands, not from a lack of tractors. They weaponized food.

Looks like an attacker is from Russia. Just like 9/11, that means Putin was behind it.

KalashniKEV

06-30-16, 16:47

Doesn't your first sentence negate the second paragraph? I agree, that would be a much better way to run the world, but the reality is that people with guns have the power.

People got way hung up on "tractors" and "Africa..." I guess because those two things are racially and politically charged.

Let's say iPads to kids in Moldova... or anything.

Power does flow from the barrel of a gun, which is why we give out guns and not consumer electronics.

Literally any possible use of the money, up to and including destroying it, is more favorable than using it to weaken our position and harm our interests though.

That is my basic difference with you on Iraq. W hit the reset switch and guys decided that they'd take guns and try to kill their way to power. So Iraqis being shit heads is W fault?

No... no... no... I know you're aware you're making an oversimplification, but to conceptualize things like a "Reset button" and then "guys up and decided" is just not correct. There are interests at play, and we chose to intervene and replace a just outcome with chaos and unbalance.

We didn't hit a reset button, we violated the law of the jungle, and now the world pays the price.

You're supposed to watch the lion do his thing at the watering hole, eat water buffalo as they come to drink, and if he wades out too far going after the prey he gets snapped up by a croc and dragged to deeper water- because that's the domain of the crocodile. The whole time you just sit there and snap pics and marvel at nature's brutal law... and all is good.

W heard from a slimey croc that crocodiles were losing precious prey to the lion, and would he please remove the apex predator, because water is the domain of the crocodile, and everyone that needs a drink should get a chance to be eaten by crocs alone.

He was supposed to say, "Oh... yeah... Let me think about that..." and bash the stupid croc in the nose and send him slithering back to the muck.

Instead he went full out lion safari and exterminated almost all of them... and crazy number of the water buffalo got eaten by the crocs, and the remainder of the herd is migrating to better pastures.... and now every day at the watering hole it's croc infestation vs. a small group of pissed off, maniac lions...

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/B4GeFzVbb-8/maxresdefault.jpg

...why not give that free shit to US farmers and we could grow our own food here.

This question bears repeating

Because we (US Govt) prefer to pay them not to grow things.

Correct.

Giving it away to our farmers beats out building a bridge to nowhere, but falls far, far behind nationwide 4th of July block party.

They simply don't deserve it.

FromMyColdDeadHand

06-30-16, 18:25

People got way hung up on "tractors" and "Africa..." I guess because those two things are racially and politically charged.

Actually, KEV, I was giving you credit for the seeing the next big area of transformation. I thought the next Pope was going to be from Africa. Your tractor analogy I thought was a veiled reference to China's strategy of buying land and friends there. Instead, you throw a 'racist' flag. Classy. But you tend towards the bully method, so I'll let it slide.

The problem with your lion and croc analogy is that even if you do the crocs bidding and take out the lions, the crocs will start eating themselves. Haven't we seen this on the Sunni side as each group goes one step more brutal than the last?

The lions and crocs in the EU became, largely, vegetarians. They lost their appetites in the Thirty Years War for intra-faith warfare. Onto real politik wars!

W's belief in these people humanity and sanity were wrongly placed. I guess you can blame W, I think the blame lies with the people that actually did the violence.

So now we have dudes who think that the solution is to blow themselves up in airports.

PS thanks for the pictures with the bed time fable.