View Full Version : So, if you want s small SUV now what can you actually get?
ramairthree
07-06-16, 07:05
I had a 4 Runner from 94 to 2004.
When I went to replace it 4 Runners had become huge family based 4x4 mini vans in disguise.
I had an X Terra after that.
When I look now,
Anything in the smaller actually usable 4x4 SUV is a thing of the past.
The old Pathfinder, the XTerra, an FJ, etc.
What is filling that niche now?
If the closest think is a Fiat Jeep WTF.
Jeep Wrangler. I think the Fiat Jeep is ugly, whatever it's called.
Jeep Wrangler. I think the Fiat Jeep is ugly, whatever it's called.
Jeep renegade.
Pretty much the only thing left are Tahoes. I don't know what's available in real 4x4 from jeep aside from the Wrangler. The new Pathfinder be can an all wheel drive crossover. 4 runner is still 4x4 but more of a family sedan. I miss the old 4Runners and Pathfinders. When they were nothing more than a truck with a cap and rear seats! I even miss the little Trackers and Samurai
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ramairthree
07-06-16, 07:46
Tahoe bigger than I am looking for.
Would go get an FJ but they stopped making them.
Would get another X Terra but they stopped making them.
Looking at escape, trap, forester, etc.
Closest thing to a small SUV for me and the wife,
That will go to middle kid in a couple of years is the Fiat Renegade.
Horrible.
DreadPirateMoyer
07-06-16, 08:11
The 5th gen 4runner is not a huge mini-van, especially if you get a Trail. Manual transfer case, BOF, true 4WD, locking differential, solid rear axle -- the whole shebang. It, along with the Wrangler, is one of the last true SUVs available under 80k.
Unlike the Wrangler, however, it won't break down on you every 50k miles, has an amazing resale value, and is actually drivable on the road, all while maintaining 80% of the Wrangler's off-road cred.
If you were considering the FJ, a 4Runner is the next logical choice since it has all the same capabilities and is even built on the same platform. If you were considering the Xterra, the 4Runner is only a little bit bigger but way more capable and reliable.
Your assertion that the 4Runner is just a big mini-van does not jive with the 5th gen. The 4th gen? Yeah, that was an abortion. But the 5th gen went back to the 4Runner's roots. Go test drive a 2016 Trail, Trail Premium, or TRD Pro, and visit t4r.org's 5th gen section. This is a true, rugged, not-an-elephant SUV, and it's one of the last around. You'll fall in love.
ETA: don't buy a Cherokee or Fiat Jeep (Renegade). They're garbage. They're routinely ranked the least reliable vehicles made today. They're also unibody with full independent suspension, which disqualifies them as SUVs. They're cars with more ground clearance.
The 5th gen 4runner is not a huge mini-van, especially if you get a Trail. Manual transfer case, BOF, true 4WD, locking differential, solid rear axle -- the whole shebang. It, along with the Wrangler, is one of the last true SUVs available under 80k.
Unlike the Wrangler, however, it won't break down on you every 50k miles, has an amazing resale value, and is actually drivable on the road, all while maintaining 80% of the Wrangler's off-road cred.
If you were considering the FJ, a 4Runner is the next logical choice since it has all the same capabilities and is even built on the same platform. If you were considering the Xterra, the 4Runner is only a little bit bigger but way more capable and reliable.
Your assertion that the 4Runner is just a big mini-van does not jive with the 5th gen. The 4th gen? Yeah, that was an abortion. But the 5th gen went back to the 4Runner's roots. Go test drive a 2016 Trail, Trail Premium, or TRD Pro, and visit t4r.org's 5th gen section. This is a true, rugged, not-an-elephant SUV, and it's one of the last around. You'll fall in love.
ETA: don't buy a Cherokee or Fiat Jeep (Renegade). They're garbage. They're routinely ranked the least reliable vehicles made today. They're also unibody with full independent suspension, which disqualifies them as SUVs. They're cars with more ground clearance.
This. The new 4Runners are a bit bigger, but they are still very capable off road. Just about all SUVs these days are simply crossovers with more car qualities than SUV qualities. The 4Runner and the Wrangler are pretty much the only remaining exceptions in the midsize range.
I have an escape, it is not a true suv. If you get 4x4, it's more like a 4wd car than a small truck. Mine is only 2wd, as having a true suv wasn't why I got it. If you do get one, get the 6 cylinder.
For suv, I have two full sized broncos, but I suppose that's a bit larger than what you want.
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BoringGuy45
07-06-16, 08:38
My everyday vehicle is a 2015 Forester. I absolutely love it. I really can't think of any complaints I have about it. It's a bit on the small side for SUVs, but it will fit 99% if your needs.
DreadPirateMoyer
07-06-16, 08:43
My everyday vehicle is a 2015 Forester. I absolutely love it. I really can't think of any complaints I have about it. It's a bit on the small side for SUVs, but it will fit 99% if your needs.
Not a true SUV regardless of what Subaru calls it, but if the OP doesn't truly need a real SUV, this would also be my suggestion. The new 2017s are super nice, and Foresters are efficient, capable within their performance range, and reliable.
Hoping to get one for the wife. :)
Your only options currently on the market for a true Sport Utility Vehicle are the Toyota 4Runner or the Jeep Wrangler. Everything else is a FWD car with a lift kit playing make believe.
wildcard600
07-06-16, 09:11
Wrangler, Rav 4, Renegade and anything Subaru might be offering as a "crossover" are about the only small SUV's left.
The regular Cherokee is kinda small but kinda not.
Your only options currently on the market for a true Sport Utility Vehicle are the Toyota 4Runner or the Jeep Wrangler. Everything else is a FWD car with a lift kit playing make believe.
This is it, those are the only two left that are body on frame. Of those two, my cash would go to the Toyota. I don't trust anything FCA after the last 6 years in car sales.
If you really want a small, modern SUV, take a close look at the Forester as recommended above. It is the only one actually designed to be AWD from the start with only 1 inch less clearance than the 4Runner.
4Runner for the win. Period.
I've owned and driven the **** out of all gens and my favorite is the 4th gen. Not sure why people hate on them. The 5th gen is great, I've got a trail- but it lacks power and acceleration. It's the wife's daily driver so I only drive it once in a while, but if it was my daily I'd have to super charge it as the lack of power annoys the hell out of me.
The wrangler is just too expensive and too much maintenance/trouble.
4Runner is the last purpose built 4x4 SUV that is quality and tough. Go to t4r.org and do some reading, all the info on 4runners you could possibly need and much more.
ramairthree
07-06-16, 11:17
My comments on the 4 Runner are based on size and ammennities.
It is like a foot longer and a foot wider than a second or third gen 4 runner or a first gen x terra.
No interest in going that large.
I would have been happy to buy an FJ, but of course not an option now new.
My comments on the 4 Runner are based on size and ammennities.
It is like a foot longer and a foot wider than a second or third gen 4 runner or a first gen x terra.
No interest in going that large.
I would have been happy to buy an FJ, but of course not an option now new.
Don't know what to tell you, you want something that doesn't exist.
Try to find an older 4runner or FJ with low miles, deal with the larger size of the new gens or buy a minivan masquerading as an SUV- those are your choices...
Averageman
07-06-16, 11:48
There is always the option of getting a Tacoma and putting a cap on the back.
ramairthree
07-06-16, 11:58
I find it odd that there used to be so many options in this field that no longer exists. Smaller not real SUVs exist. Larger exists. But the whole segment is gone.
They always seemed very popular
DreadPirateMoyer
07-06-16, 12:11
Yeah, if even the 5th gen 4Runner is off your list due to size, you're left with trying to find a new-old-stock Xterra (they exist, but be prepared to pay your dealer MSRP+ to find one) or buying a car with 8" of ground clearance (Subarus, Rav 4, CRV/HRV, Jeeps not named Wrangler, etc.).
Good luck. :(
If you want a tall AWD car, the Rav4 and other small "SUV's" in that segment will do you fine. If you need some off road capability but not towing, get the Forester. If you need off road AND towing, deal with the size and get the 4Runner.
Wranglers hold their value for no apparent reason other than appeal. They're not reliable, not comfortable, not fuel efficient, don't tow very well and unless you're playing mountain goat every week, not practical either.
I find it odd that there used to be so many options in this field that no longer exists. Smaller not real SUVs exist. Larger exists. But the whole segment is gone.
They always seemed very popular
That's because the only "Off Roading" most Americans do nowadays is parking in the grass field next to the little league ball park. Or going camping at campgrounds that have amenities like electricity and toilets. I honestly don't understand the whole CUV segment of vehicles or the people who buy them.
My comments on the 4 Runner are based on size and ammennities.
It is like a foot longer and a foot wider than a second or third gen 4 runner or a first gen x terra.
No interest in going that large.
I would have been happy to buy an FJ, but of course not an option now new.
So, I looked it up and the 4th gen is approx 7" longer and 4" Wider than the 3rd gen. The 5th gen is 7.5" longer and 4.5" wider than the 3rd gen. Both 4th and 5th gen are about 6"-9" taller than the 3rd gen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_4Runner
Is that really so much of a size increase that it takes the best 4X4 purpose built SUV off of your list and leaves you with only shit options to choose from?
Can you explain the reason that size is a deal breaker? I'm having a hard time understanding your needs. Given that EVERY SINGLE other "SUV" is actually a car or minivan- your options are narrow. Can you provide more detail in your wants and needs for this vehicle?
ramairthree
07-06-16, 14:11
Basically, my wants are for a real SUV that is not a foot longer and foot wider than a second gen 4 runner or first gen X terra.
I have had SUVs from MDX to Excursion size and have determined that is what I like.
The premiere and only remaining example that is currently available is the same vehicle in name only that weighs a thousand pounds more.
It became more of a massive SUV than what it used to be.
Then they stopped making FJs here.
My bad.
Does not mean the 4 Runner is not a good vehicle in current form. It is just not in a form I want.
I know a ton of guys that hate the fake car UVs,
And wish there was still a smaller sized 4 runner type SUV.
I thought sales in that segment were great.
I did not realize they were going away.
I want a vehicle that size for a muddy Malanois to hop in the back of, to throw gear in, drive down my trails I don't have to clear wider for, etc.
And use as a daily driver if I want without feeling like I am in a 4x4 panel van.
It's just preference.
If you love the fifth gen great.
Some guys like finely tuned gas systems with no recoil impulse,
I have found I would rather have an over gassed hog I can put weak crap like steel cased Tula in and still function.
Does not mean those other guns are bad or that they are not better.
In cars I am the opposite size wise.
I love my Challenger RT for power, ride, double dead hooker trunk, etc. and hate my 5.0 Mustang cramped cabin, rough ride, small gas tank and dinky trunk even though it handles a little better and is two tenths faster in the quarter.
When I test drive the new four runner I feel like I am in my 2500 truck and I don't feel like it is what I want. I feel more like I am in the Excusion I had and not the 4 Runner I had.
Hell, 2004 I bought the dam X Terra because I did not like the forth gen. After the third gen I just lost interest in the size of the 4 runner as what I wanted.
Didn't they have the sequoia to be that big?
more just for info for others reading :)
everything has gotten bigger ? not much you can do about that if you want a true body on frame 4x4 you are limited in choices these days I hear ya its a bummer
I had a FJC 2007 and just got a new 4runner :)
I think its been covered by some above the 4runner is not a mini van :)
the FJC is basically the same rig and based on the Prado (150) frame along with the lexus GX460 which is a great rig used the FJC had about 4 inch shorter wheelbase and inside has less cargo room
I can say the 2016 trail 4runner I have over our FJC which I ended up quite moded out with arb bumper sliders OME suspension gobi rack etc.. was an outstanding off road rig but the 4runner and KDSS is amazing on the road which is about %95 of what we do to get to trails or camp spots and is just as capable for the trails I hit once we get there
if I did not have a family of 4 and 2 dogs the FJC IMHO is a more fun rig to own though lots of nice condition mall cruiser ones still available and would be my choice if I was single or just two of us but I also was a old FJ40 guy :)
but if you have kids the rear doors on the FJC get old really quick
but a FJ40 and fix it up really nice :)
4X4, 4 door Tacoma with the shortest bed and a nice cap.
Basically, my wants are for a real SUV that is not a foot longer and foot wider than a second gen 4 runner or first gen X terra.
I have had SUVs from MDX to Excursion size and have determined that is what I like.
The premiere and only remaining example that is currently available is the same vehicle in name only that weighs a thousand pounds more.
It became more of a massive SUV than what it used to be.
Then they stopped making FJs here.
My bad.
Does not mean the 4 Runner is not a good vehicle in current form. It is just not in a form I want.
I know a ton of guys that hate the fake car UVs,
And wish there was still a smaller sized 4 runner type SUV.
I thought sales in that segment were great.
I did not realize they were going away.
I want a vehicle that size for a muddy Malanois to hop in the back of, to throw gear in, drive down my trails I don't have to clear wider for, etc.
And use as a daily driver if I want without feeling like I am in a 4x4 panel van.
It's just preference.
If you love the fifth gen great.
Some guys like finely tuned gas systems with no recoil impulse,
I have found I would rather have an over gassed hog I can put weak crap like steel cased Tula in and still function.
Does not mean those other guns are bad or that they are not better.
In cars I am the opposite size wise.
I love my Challenger RT for power, ride, double dead hooker trunk, etc. and hate my 5.0 Mustang cramped cabin, rough ride, small gas tank and dinky trunk even though it handles a little better and is two tenths faster in the quarter.
When I test drive the new four runner I feel like I am in my 2500 truck and I don't feel like it is what I want. I feel more like I am in the Excusion I had and not the 4 Runner I had.
Hell, 2004 I bought the dam X Terra because I did not like the forth gen. After the third gen I just lost interest in the size of the 4 runner as what I wanted.
Didn't they have the sequoia to be that big?
Okay, I gotcha.
That's a niche that just isn't filled right now with a capable rugged vehicle.
If rugged is more important go for the wrangler and be ready to dump some $$$ into it. If reliability is more important to with the forester. It's not a real 4x4 vehicle though- so don't expect it to do any real trails.
There really isn't a small/mid sized capable Quality SUV anymore. Grocery getters replaced them all. It's maddening.
I find it odd that there used to be so many options in this field that no longer exists. Smaller not real SUVs exist. Larger exists. But the whole segment is gone.
They always seemed very popular
They were until the majority of people driving those SUVs realized they don't go more than soft roading, wanted a better ride quality and far superior fuel economy to haul around their stuff and families. Thus the rise and takeover of unibody SUBs. Those vehicles are what sells and so those are what are built.
Bluntly, you sound like a prime customer for an Outback 3.6R.
wildcard600
07-06-16, 15:11
They were until the majority of people driving those SUVs realized they don't go more than soft roading, wanted a better ride quality and far superior fuel economy to haul around their stuff and families. Thus the rise and takeover of unibody SUBs. Those vehicles are what sells and so those are what are built.
Bluntly, you sound like a prime customer for an Outback 3.6R.
Exactly, the "compromise" SUV's like the Xterra and FJ Cruiser were "too jeep like" for the average customer and "not jeep enough" for the hardcore off-road niche. Jeep can still sells boat loads of Wrangler's to the mallcrawl crowd simply because of brand recognition and the convertible top/door options, which the competition simply did not have.
brickboy240
07-06-16, 15:20
Yes, have you looked at an Outback 3.6 or maybe a Volvo Cross Country? Don't laugh, that Volvo is a sweet riding vehicle and it has more room than many SUVs and like the Subie, it is AWD. There are tons of racks for the Cross Country to haul bikes, kayaks and other things and plastic mats to go in the back area to hold muddy dogs, etc. They also ride better than most smaller SUVs and get as good or better mileage.
BuzzinSATX
07-06-16, 16:09
Yes, have you looked at an Outback 3.6 or maybe a Volvo Cross Country? Don't laugh, that Volvo is a sweet riding vehicle and it has more room than many SUVs and like the Subie, it is AWD. There are tons of racks for the Cross Country to haul bikes, kayaks and other things and plastic mats to go in the back area to hold muddy dogs, etc. They also ride better than most smaller SUVs and get as good or better mileage.
And that Subaru AWD system is second to none I've ever drove. Amazing he places they go with minimal ground clearance. And they have a very nice ride.
Take Care,
Buzz
The_War_Wagon
07-06-16, 18:11
I have 4 kids - I have a Jeep Commander, and a '92 Dodge Ramcharger for an offroad toy.
What is this "small" SUV of which you speak? :confused:
I have had 3 Wrangler Rubicons since 2010, and wheeled them all. Only the the 2011 4dr had issues, it burned oil. The other 2 had no issues other than the obligatory water leaks in heavy rain. All 3 had between 50-80K when traded in, and they held tremendous value. I paid 37 for my 2013 and got 27 for trade with 60k on it.
My wife has a Grand Cherokee limited, and it is quite capable off road, no Rubicon, but capable with a much better ride and better fuel economy.
Basically, my wants are for a real SUV that is not a foot longer and foot wider than a second gen 4 runner or first gen X terra.
I have had SUVs from MDX to Excursion size and have determined that is what I like.
The premiere and only remaining example that is currently available is the same vehicle in name only that weighs a thousand pounds more.
It became more of a massive SUV than what it used to be.
Then they stopped making FJs here.
My bad.
Does not mean the 4 Runner is not a good vehicle in current form. It is just not in a form I want.
I know a ton of guys that hate the fake car UVs,
And wish there was still a smaller sized 4 runner type SUV.
I thought sales in that segment were great.
I did not realize they were going away.
I want a vehicle that size for a muddy Malanois to hop in the back of, to throw gear in, drive down my trails I don't have to clear wider for, etc.
And use as a daily driver if I want without feeling like I am in a 4x4 panel van.
It's just preference.
If you love the fifth gen great.
Some guys like finely tuned gas systems with no recoil impulse,
I have found I would rather have an over gassed hog I can put weak crap like steel cased Tula in and still function.
Does not mean those other guns are bad or that they are not better.
In cars I am the opposite size wise.
I love my Challenger RT for power, ride, double dead hooker trunk, etc. and hate my 5.0 Mustang cramped cabin, rough ride, small gas tank and dinky trunk even though it handles a little better and is two tenths faster in the quarter.
When I test drive the new four runner I feel like I am in my 2500 truck and I don't feel like it is what I want. I feel more like I am in the Excusion I had and not the 4 Runner I had.
Hell, 2004 I bought the dam X Terra because I did not like the forth gen. After the third gen I just lost interest in the size of the 4 runner as what I wanted.
Didn't they have the sequoia to be that big?
Yes. It went from big to massive. Get the Forester. Based on your needs, it's going to do what you want with the best ride and reliability.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-07-16, 00:53
Why not a Grand Cherokee? Those are a bit smaller on the scale. I had a 2000 and 2003. 2003 was better than the 2000. With good tires it was unstoppable in snow.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-07-16, 00:53
Had an 09 Forester, hated it with a passion. FYI.
ramairthree
07-07-16, 07:06
I am simply cursed when it comes to SUVs.
I drove a 4 Runner from 1994.
1999 was going to be the year I replaced it with a Defender 90.
World's worst timing.
Never got my defender.
I kept driving the 4 Runner.
I needed a new vehicle with a short time window in 2004 or so.
Did not like the new 4 Runner,
No 4 door Wrangler yer,
No FJ yet.
Ended up with the X Terra.
Now,
I have a need for one again,
Would have got an FJ new in a heart beat.
Still don't like the super size 4 runner.
No more X Terra.
Have gotten to the point I don't want a 4 door jeep as an every day driver.
I look around now,
And I have to go supervised,
Or get a vehicle that is basically an AMC Eagle. Decades after that niche was replaced with real SUVs. They have been replaced by what they replaced.
Why not a Grand Cherokee? Those are a bit smaller on the scale. I had a 2000 and 2003. 2003 was better than the 2000. With good tires it was unstoppable in snow.
Uni-body.
I am simply cursed when it comes to SUVs.
I drove a 4 Runner from 1994.
1999 was going to be the year I replaced it with a Defender 90.
World's worst timing.
Never got my defender.
I kept driving the 4 Runner.
I needed a new vehicle with a short time window in 2004 or so.
Did not like the new 4 Runner,
No 4 door Wrangler yer,
No FJ yet.
Ended up with the X Terra.
Now,
I have a need for one again,
Would have got an FJ new in a heart beat.
Still don't like the super size 4 runner.
No more X Terra.
Have gotten to the point I don't want a 4 door jeep as an every day driver.
I look around now,
And I have to go supervised,
Or get a vehicle that is basically an AMC Eagle. Decades after that niche was replaced with real SUVs. They have been replaced by what they replaced.
There are few among us here that are gonna get that reference and I am one of them, lol.
Like someone else said if you look hard enough you can find NOS Xterras that are un-used so it would be a "new" vehicle, it just won't be a 2016 model.
But if you're planning on serious use like it seems you are why not just buy a used SUV and avoid the hit in depreciation? If you look nation wide you can find plenty of 4x4 SUV's that have never left pavement except for parking in a grass lot or visiting that one person they know that lives on a dirt road. I actually know 3 people right now that own Jeep Wrangler Rubicons & Saharas that bought them simply because that's what they wanted. They're not outdoorsy types and they will never wheel these vehicles the way they are meant to be. All they will ever see are paved roads.
That's because the only "Off Roading" most Americans do nowadays is parking in the grass field next to the little league ball park. Or going camping at campgrounds that have amenities like electricity and toilets. I honestly don't understand the whole CUV segment of vehicles or the people who buy them.
Actually it makes perfect sense. Half the drivers are women. Not that I'm making fun of women but they typically don't care what the extra buttons and levers are for nor will they. My own sister, cusin, mom, ex girlfriends, women I work with, female clients. .... they know what they learned from learning to drive. Ignition, shifter, temp controls, radio. Now with 4x4 you gotta remember when to turn it on, how, under what conditions, Hi or Lo, how fast to go and when to turn off. It'd just easier to get in, put the car in D and go. About 10 years ago we had a huge snow storm and I got stuck in serious traffic on the way home. Unfortunately the road goes uphill so once you stop it may be hard to start. Half way up the hill was a lady stuck in snow. She was just spinning her rear tires. Myself and a few other drivers walked up to see if we could push and get her going or her to the side. Well it turns out she had a Pathfinder but didn't know what that shifter thing was for. One of the people put it in 4x4 mode for her and away she went ....as if there was no snow. Hopefully her husband got it out of 4x4 before she killed the transmission. I'm not saying women are dumb bit most don't know a thing about cars and it's becoming common with guys too. I know a few guys who don't know how to change a tire or how to even use the tools provided. They just drive.
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I remember the amc. I hadn't thought about it, but yup, we've come full circle.
Seems I have a problem with cars. I can find one I like, but within a few years of driving it, there will be catastrophic wreck, and the car lost. Trucks, or even truck like (as in the escape), I can drive indefinitely. It just is, I guess.
I got the broncos when I need them. Sold the big 4x4, everywhere I used to go wheeling is neighborhoods, or parks.
Oh, my wife definitely knows what a set of locking hubs are for, and how to use them.
But then, she isn't typical.
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My first 4x4 was a '49 Jeep station wagon; flathead 4, 3:52 rear end, and maxed out at 45 screaming mph. My restored '72 CJ5 has an OHV 6 and--wait for it--electric wipers! As for anything practical, the industry could care less--they make a ton of money gratifying American moms roaming the urban landscape 24/7.
A nice Model A pickup with a set of chains might be the way to go nowadays. Antique plates and no speeding tickets.
Uni-body. .
What is the issue with uni body? While not as durable as a FF, the last 3 generations of the Gran Cherokee has proven to be capable off road, they are trail rated with the right option package, meaning they have been tested and designed to perform in five categories of off-road conditions: traction, ground clearance, maneuverability, articulation, and water fording.
Besides most people never leave the road.
My wife drives a Ford Escape and it is a great vehicle with an excellent powertrain. She loves it and that little SUV goes through snow like a tank.
Most SUV's are unibody so they don't ride like chuck wagons. If you don't want unibody get a truck.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-09-16, 22:11
What is the issue with uni body? While not as durable as a FF, the last 3 generations of the Gran Cherokee has proven to be capable off road, they are trail rated with the right option package, meaning they have been tested and designed to perform in five categories of off-road conditions: traction, ground clearance, maneuverability, articulation, and water fording.
Besides most people never leave the road.
Unless you need the max towing weight is it really that relevant? The fact that a lot of unibody 4x4 are nothing more than tall cars doesn't negate the fact that a unibody can be a good off road vehicle. There is no vehicle that meets your needs and requirements. So what are you going to give up? I'd give up features for performance. Unibody isn't what you want, but GJCs just go.
This is an eight year old video.
https://youtu.be/o1TqECPDCTM
I've been visiting this thread little by little. Right now I drive a 2006 Nissan Xterra and I love it. It is arguably my favorite SUV from a 2001 Cherokee Sport, 2004 GMC Envoy, 2002 Chevy Blazer and a 2003 Toyota 4Runner (not owned in that order). Having said that I too am looking at full size Pickup truck for the first time( with some dismay I might add) because I really want a newer Land Cruiser with out the luxury appointments but with 3 rows, V8, Locking diff, good articulation and can't find anything with in the under $40k price range that meets my needs. So I would recommend my Nissan Xterra as a good solution to your problems with the newer 4Runner model right behind (driving position being the biggest issue). In the last 7 years in which I have owned my Xterra it has gone through sand dunes of New Mexico and California, to the off road trails that border Lake Superior. It is an SE model which does not come with the locking diff, but has gotten me through everything but a very wet snow on bald tires. I have raised 2 kids in it and have driven it like a Ferrari one more than one occasion. So if you can find a used one that fits your needs that is my recommendation.
The Outback has a lot more room than the Forester. It has more ground clearance than most, if not all, "SUVs".
My wife has the anti-Subaru 3.6R with really nice leather, it's comfy for me at 6' 3", and the engine pulls like a champ! If you look at Outbacks I'd definitely drive a 4 cylinder and then the 6. There was no contest in my mind.
What is the issue with uni body?
Besides most people never leave the road.
Which is why it didn't sound like it would meet RAIII's needs.
But for 99% of the people who buy these vehicles nothing is wrong with uni-body.
My wife drives a Ford Escape and it is a great vehicle with an excellent powertrain. She loves it and that little SUV goes through snow like a tank.
Most SUV's are unibody so they don't ride like chuck wagons. If you don't want unibody get a truck.
I second this - my wife has a 2012 Escape with about 40,000 miles and a 4 cylinder engine and its a surprisingly great car. Handles the snow like a champ...and in northern NH we have plenty of snow.
We test drove some of the newer ones when we bought this (bought in 2014, so we test drove 2014 and 2015s along with this very low mile 2012) and they felt chinsier...but the previous style Escape like we have now feels much better.
Grand Cherokees and older Cherokees are plenty capable deposit being unibody, but I don't think he wants an older car so it's moot anyway.
I have a 2003 Grand Cherokee and it's fine...no regrets. But they do not have near the longevity all around the 4Runner does.
My mom has less issues on her 300k mile 3rd gen t4r than I do on my 90k mile 03 grand Cherokee.
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4 runner TRD PRO
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my 2010 Subaru Forester was of the seven other Subarus that could exit the employee parking lot during the last blizzard in Chicago, and made it home thru the blizzard.
Our 2000 4Runner is our true SUV, because it too made thru many blizzards in Chicago.
It's our go-to vehicle during long drives in a Winters and Rainy Season (if any)
Forester is our go-to South, i.e. Florida vehicle due to better fuel efficiency in that humid region.
I'm literally blown away by all the TOYota truck drivers in this thread. They are literally infamous for not being able to produce a competitive truck in any form.
Take the blinders off guys.
So the Tacoma and Hilux are not competitive? Seriously dude?
ramairthree
07-12-16, 10:10
He probably means as work/ towing.
Doing serious towing nobody looks at a Toyota.
Not sure what I will end up with.
Size wise,
A Jeep Patriot is what I am looking among what is currently available. And looks wise I guess. Otherwise it is pretty lack luster.
Some other vehicles, do not even look like an SUV. They look like big cars.
I might just wait for the Defender 90 return next year or see if the LC 70 is going to make it here instead of just Japan.
I had not really realized the Fj was going out of production.
If you're really considering a Patriot over a Forester, I can't help you. Go get a 2017 Forester with X-Mode. I would never recommend a Patriot/Compass (same platform) to friends, family or my enemies.
ramairthree
07-12-16, 11:45
That is just a size and looks.
As I said,
Very unimpressed with the actual vehicle.
The forester looks like a big car.
Not sure if you have to get the tube vs regular engine for the good AWD.
Probably end up with a 4 door jeep, but as opposed to a dozen years ago not liking the thought of it as a daily driver.
Also, this vehicle will be one of my daughters in a few years.
So not going to be spending land cruiser prices.
My son got the wife's old MDX with 100k on it.
I bet it gets another 100k.
For me, it's a truck and as yota doesn't offer the tundra in a quad cab with a 6.5' bed it's not even an option...but for my wife who needed 4x4 and wanted a mid-size SUV, 4Runner was the only option id consider as it's the only one with a true frame, is more than capable on and off road, rides great, doesn't look like a car, and has a proven track record for reliability. IMO all it lacks is power but that's just because I'm used to a V8 and and honestly I think it's got plenty - it's just geared low.
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or see if the LC 70 is going to make it here instead of just Japan.
I had not really realized the Fj was going out of production.
As much as I would love to see the 70, I don't think there's any chance of it coming here.
What's wrong with a mint 2014 FJ cruiser?
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If you're really considering a Patriot over a Forester, I can't help you. Go get a 2017 Forester with X-Mode. I would never recommend a Patriot/Compass (same platform) to friends, family or my enemies.
This...please get anything else. Patriot/Compass/Renegade are just horrible vehicles that are horribly built. Even at the price point they sell for they are overpriced for what you get. May as well get a Yugo and be done with it.
ramairthree
07-12-16, 13:10
The 2014 FJ are selling at what they did new with none of the warranty or anything
Supply, meet demand. You can always pick up a warranty from Toyota on used cars, or buy a CPO.
ramairthree
07-12-16, 14:34
Yep.
I had not realized sales had really dropped off for several years and they were on the chopping block.
30plus K for 40K plus mileage vehicles do not attract my interest in FJs vs buying a new one.
Just like when I was going to get a Defender all planned in 98 or 99 then it was not an option and used prices shot up.
TriggerFish
07-12-16, 15:09
My 5th Jeep since '93 and it has been great. 22,787 miles since 9/30/15, many on AZ forest/fire roads with a bit of chit thrown in. Lockers got us out of any trouble.
Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (2016) Trail Rated
MSRP: $30, 490
Equiptment:
Electronic Stability Control
Hill Start Assist
Trailer Sway Damping
115-Volt Auxiliary Power Outlet
Off-Road Suspension
Underbody Skid Plate
Transmission Skid Plate
Fuel Tank Skid Plate Shield
Front Suspension Skid Plate
Jeep Active Drive Lock
Off-Road Group
Off-Road Wheel Flares
Red Tow Hooks (2 Front, 1 Rear)
8.4-Inch Touchscreen Display
ParkView™ Rear Back-Up Camera
2.4-Liter I4 MultiAir® Engine (get the 3.2L V6 271 HP)
9-Speed Transmission with Jeep Active Drive II
Jeep Active Drive Lock
Locker Rear Axle
Selec-Terrain™ System
Selec-Speed™ Crawl Control
All Speed Traction Control
Electronic Roll Mitigation
17-Inch x 7.5-Inch Aluminum Wheels
P245/65R17 OWL All Terrain Tires
Tire Pressure Monitoring Display
EPA est. MPG: 19 city/25 hwy
115-Volt Auxiliary Power Outlet
12-Volt Auxiliary Power Outlet
12-Volt Auxiliary Power Outlet in Instrument Panel
12-Volt Cargo Power Outlet
15.8-Gallon Fuel Tank
160-Amp Alternator
730-Amp Maintenance Free Battery
All Speed Traction Control
Anti-Lock 4-Wheel Disc Brakes
Auxiliary Transmission Oil Cooler
Battery Run Down Protection
Cargo Net
Electronic Range Select
Electronic Roll Mitigation
Electronic Vehicle Information Center
Engine Immobilizer
Engine Oil Cooler
Front-Passenger Fold-Flat Seat
Full Size Spare Tire
Hill Descent Control
Jeep Cargo Mgt System Utility Hooks and Bag Kit
Keyless Entry with Panic Alarm
Locking Glove Box with Damped Door
Media Center Electronics Storage
Navigation-Capable. See Dealer for Activation
ParkView™ Rear Back-Up Camera
Air Conditioning
Deep Tint Sunscreen Glass
4.083 Final Drive Ratio
Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Approach Angle: 29.9
Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Breakover Angle: 22.9
Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Departure Angle: 32.2
Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Running Ground Clearance: 8.7
Overall Body Width: 74.9
Overall Height: 67.8
Overall Length: 182.0
Track - Front: 63.5
Track - Rear: 63.5
Turning Diameter - curb-to-curb - Left: 37.7
Turning Diameter - curb-to-curb - Right: 37.7
Wheelbase: 107.0
Cargo Capacity - Behind First-Row Seat: 54.9
Head Room - Front: 39.4
Head Room - Rear: 38.5
Hip Room - Front: 53.8
Hip Room - Rear: 49.9
Leg Room - Front: 41.1
Leg Room - Rear: 40.3
Passenger Interior Volume: 103.4
Seating Capacity - Maximum Seating: 5
Seating Capacity - Standard Seating: 5
Shoulder Room - Front: 57.6
Shoulder Room - Rear: 55.1
Trunk Lift-Over Height: 30.9
Base Curb Weight - Automatic Trans: 4028
Capacity/Weights - Fuel Tank Capacity: 15.9
Capacity/Weights - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) : 5500
Payload Capacity - Standard: Not Available
Towing Capacity - Maximum: 2000
Towing Capacity - Standard: 2000
Weight Distribution - Automatic Trans - Front : 57.0
Weight Distribution - Automatic Trans - Rear: 43.0
Seat Cushion Height from Ground: 28.5
Seat Cushion to Rocker Panel: 9.4
Step-Out Height : 3.4
Step-Out Width: 8.8
Step-Over Height from Ground: 17.8
Basic Warranty - Miles: 36,000 Months: 36
Powertrain - Miles: 60000 Months: 60
Roadside Assistance - Miles: 100,000 Months: 60
Rust-Through - Miles: 100,000 Months: 60
Google Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk Off-Road videos
DreadPirateMoyer
07-12-16, 15:36
No one is debating the Trailhawk's capabilities. For a unibody car-faking-it-as-an-SUV, they're great in that regard. We're saying no one in their right mind should buy a Jeep, or any other FCA vehicle. Garbage all around, and your individual experiences are just that. They're the DPMS of 2016 vehicles; some people have DPMS guns that run and run well, but it's not the norm.
http://longtermqualityindex.com/analysis.html
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/cars/consumer-reports-least-reliable-new-cars-include-the-fiat-500l-jeep-cherokee-and-nissan-pathfinder-1.11016600
There's a ton more out there, but that's a quick look into the long and short term. Anything from FCA is junk right now. Especially anything with that garbage transmission in the Cherokee and Renegade.
TriggerFish
07-12-16, 16:35
Cool. Thanks.
So the Tacoma and Hilux are not competitive? Seriously dude?
No they are not. Seriously.
No they are not. Seriously.
What in their category are so much better that they are not competitive?
I bought a 2015 escape 4WD 2.0 echboost for just a hair over 30k with 40 miles on it. I love it so far. Has enough power to get onto the freeway or fast moving city traffic without too much worry and still gets an average of 24 mpg combined.
I wish it had a slightly bigger trunk space, because between my emergency roadside supplies, hasty bed roll, and food/water for one person for four days, I fill it up with a trip to the grocery store. If it was 4 inches deeper, it would be a much better overall car. I would purchase it again. The mysync and touchscreen garbage in the console is really nice too. It can get a bit clunky when switching multiple Bluetooth devices with the mysync system though. Overall, it is a decent small family car and it does everything I want including a 2400 lb towing capacity.
From Car & Driver:
Eight years ago the engine was class-leading. Today it sounds ragged and loud. And while the Tundra’s V-8 is more powerful than the F-150’s EcoBoost V-6, it trails behind all contenders in torque production.
Light, unsettled, and fitfully communicative steering has the $49,820 Tundra always feeling as if it’s driving on tippy-toes
The rear axle is always dancing beneath its leaf springs instead of settling down for a freeway cruise. There’s an anxiety built into the chassis that cries for a Freudian re-engineering.
Designed to emphasize its mass, the Tundra’s styling didn’t earn much affection. Too self-conscious, verging on the insecure. Inside, the plastics look cheap, and the diamond-tufted leather upholstery accents seem archaic.
The Tundra’s combination of prodigious weight and short highway gearing resulted in a worst-in-test 14-mpg observed fuel economy.
F-150 is as quiet as an aluminum tomb.
With an eight-inch digital screen embedded between the speedometer and tach, the F-150 offers the most advanced and easiest to read instrumentation.
TOYota Max Payload: # 1,575
F150 Max Payload: # 2020
TOYota Max Towing: # 9,800
F150 Max Towing: # 11,500
If you like Performance:
TOYota 0-60: 6.7 sec
F150 0-60: 5.6 sec
TOYota 0-100: 19.3 sec
F150 0-100: 16.4 sec
TOYota braking: (70-0) 189 feet
F150 braking: (70-0) 179 feet
Sound Levels:
TOYota: Idle 44 dBA
F150: Idle 34 dBA
TOYota: 70 MPH Cruise 67 dBA
F150: 70 MPH Cruise 65 dBA
I chose the F150 as the comparative, as it won the C&D comparison that included Chevy and RAM. (I just dropped the MIC) :)
I was talking about the Tacoma not the Tundra. Though the listed towing for the Tundra was for the TRD models. Tundra max towing is 10500 and has been SAE certified for that weight for a several years now. My TRD has a 9800 max towing. I knew when buying my Tundra that it wasn't the best at towing and hauling, but not everyone buys a truck based on its max towing and payload figures.
But good mic drop on a topic that wasn't brought up.
I was talking about the Tacoma not the Tundra. Though the listed towing for the Tundra was for the TRD models. Tundra max towing is 10500 and has been SAE certified for that weight for a several years now. My TRD has a 9800 max towing. I knew when buying my Tundra that it wasn't the best at towing and hauling, but not everyone buys a truck based on its max towing and payload figures.
But good mic drop on a topic that wasn't brought up.
I was talking about TOYota trucks. The small pickup market is pretty small and barely worth mentioning.
Which is precisely why smaller SUV's are so popular.
I chose the F150 as the comparative, as it won the C&D comparison that included Chevy and RAM. (I just dropped the MIC) :)
Thank you for trying to validate your purchase on the internet. Maybe you can use that new truck of yours to steer you back on topic.
You actually specifically said tacoma/hilux, which while part of the "barely worth mentioning" small truck segment, have dominated said segment pretty much since inception.
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snowdog650
07-17-16, 18:57
It may have been lost on me in all of the side chatter ... but OP ... why "must" it be an SUV?
If you are looking small, look at Nissan Frontier. This is probably the last year in that configuration, and there are very good deals out there. Get the 4-door and throw a topper on it ... and you essentially have your Xterra.
ramairthree
08-20-16, 19:41
It may have been lost on me in all of the side chatter ... but OP ... why "must" it be an SUV?
If you are looking small, look at Nissan Frontier. This is probably the last year in that configuration, and there are very good deals out there. Get the 4-door and throw a topper on it ... and you essentially have your Xterra.
With dogs in the back, and some other things, a truck with a cap is not what I want to use. I did roll with a Toyota truck with a cap around 90-94 then went to 4runner for ten more years after that. I did go the bigger SUV, expedition and Excusion, and smaller, MDX. And had an X-Terra as well.
The only reason I got the X-Terra was there was no FJ out yet, and I did not like the larger 4Runner.
Since I last posted on this I have checked out a few.
Small pseudo SUVs like the CRV, RAV4, etc has all gone away from even basic SUV styling. I hate hatchbacks on an SUV.
I have found a 2014 FJ with 10k on it.
But for about 6k more can have a brand new 4Runner Trail Premium.
Kind of depressing.
No Prados here in the states,
So I looked at the Lexus version.
My balls shrivel up and I want to puke looking at the front of it.
Have any of you seen what they do to Lexus front ends these days? Holy crap.
If the 4Runner had barn doors I would probably get even though it is so big now.
I really hate the size and hatchback.
I was going to wait for the new defender 90, but from what I can see on the web, it will be nothing like the old one. It will be a Car-UV looking abortion.
I do have a relative with a 2000 Cherokee sport immaculate with only 40k on it. Maybe I will just give them 2k for and see how much longer it runs good. Those AMC engines are pretty long lasting. Not sure about the rest of them.
I might end up with a Jeep.
Bot my truck and 4Runner has way less maintenance and way more resale than my buddies jeeps of the same years and mileage. And they were not as carefree a daily driver as the Toyohashi either.
wildcard600
08-21-16, 01:19
I might end up with a Jeep.
Bot my truck and 4Runner has way less maintenance and way more resale than my buddies jeeps of the same years and mileage. And they were not as carefree a daily driver as the Toyohashi either.
If you end up with a wrangler the resale value is stupid high on those things right now. Lots of people are selling used ones for the same preice they paid 4-5 years ago. Even old wranglers are expensive. Before I bought my 2015 I looked around at used jeeps and for 7-10K more I got a brand new one vs a 10 year old possible wreck.
I don't know about maintenance, but of the 4 wranglers i've owned all have been great vehicles, but none have been daily drivers.
I had a 4 Runner from 94 to 2004.
When I went to replace it 4 Runners had become huge family based 4x4 mini vans in disguise.
I had an X Terra after that.
When I look now,
Anything in the smaller actually usable 4x4 SUV is a thing of the past.
The old Pathfinder, the XTerra, an FJ, etc.
What is filling that niche now?
If the closest think is a Fiat Jeep WTF.
I have a mazda cx5 2.5l awd. It runs on 87, is super efficient, the awd is superb, and it's cheap as hell to maintain and doesn't fall apart like my grand jeep cherokee. I'm pleased.
Handling and acceleration is far superior to anything but a forester turbo or escape turbo (in this class. A but a second faster zero to sixty than the rav or crv, which have much worse awd systems as well), and it still has similar ground clearance. It's not for real off road use of course, but it's pretty handy otherwise.
Averageman
08-21-16, 08:29
It may have been lost on me in all of the side chatter ... but OP ... why "must" it be an SUV?
If you are looking small, look at Nissan Frontier. This is probably the last year in that configuration, and there are very good deals out there. Get the 4-door and throw a topper on it ... and you essentially have your Xterra.
This is what I did with a Taco.
It works for me, but I've got just me and the dog. I'm not sure how people would react if you let a kid sit in the bed of a truck anymore, even with a Topper on it.
Thank you for trying to validate your purchase on the internet. Maybe you can use that new truck of yours to steer you back on topic.
Let's get a few things straight based on your smart @ss comment.
- I do not own an F150
- I have no reason to validate anything I purchase on this or any other forum
Got it?
If you end up with a wrangler the resale value is stupid high on those things right now. Lots of people are selling used ones for the same preice they paid 4-5 years ago. Even old wranglers are expensive. Before I bought my 2015 I looked around at used jeeps and for 7-10K more I got a brand new one vs a 10 year old possible wreck.
I don't know about maintenance, but of the 4 wranglers i've owned all have been great vehicles, but none have been daily drivers.
I have never heard anything good about any Chrysler except the SRT line. I dated a girl with a Wrangler (later model) and it was a basket case. My Grand Jeep Cherokee (2010, hemi, QD2) was also a basket case. For a ready-out-of-the-box offroad vehicle, the Jeep line isn't bad, but for a daily, ownership is a nightmare.
With dogs in the back, and some other things, a truck with a cap is not what I want to use. I did roll with a Toyota truck with a cap around 90-94 then went to 4runner for ten more years after that. I did go the bigger SUV, expedition and Excusion, and smaller, MDX. And had an X-Terra as well.
The only reason I got the X-Terra was there was no FJ out yet, and I did not like the larger 4Runner.
Since I last posted on this I have checked out a few.
Small pseudo SUVs like the CRV, RAV4, etc has all gone away from even basic SUV styling. I hate hatchbacks on an SUV.
I have found a 2014 FJ with 10k on it.
But for about 6k more can have a brand new 4Runner Trail Premium.
Kind of depressing.
No Prados here in the states,
So I looked at the Lexus version.
My balls shrivel up and I want to puke looking at the front of it.
Have any of you seen what they do to Lexus front ends these days? Holy crap.
If the 4Runner had barn doors I would probably get even though it is so big now.
I really hate the size and hatchback.
I was going to wait for the new defender 90, but from what I can see on the web, it will be nothing like the old one. It will be a Car-UV looking abortion.
I do have a relative with a 2000 Cherokee sport immaculate with only 40k on it. Maybe I will just give them 2k for and see how much longer it runs good. Those AMC engines are pretty long lasting. Not sure about the rest of them.
I might end up with a Jeep.
Bot my truck and 4Runner has way less maintenance and way more resale than my buddies jeeps of the same years and mileage. And they were not as carefree a daily driver as the Toyohashi either.
Get the 2000 Cherokee. They are pretty simple, and the last of the Chryslers that anyone would call reliable. The 6banger in them will last forever, and you can turn around and get your money right back out of it when you're done with it, if it's 4WD.
ramairthree
09-04-16, 18:10
Hmmmmm....
2011 XTerra with 40k miles an manual transmission for sale an hour or two away...
ramairthree
09-20-16, 23:00
Narrowed down to 5 vehicles.
2015 Pro X XTerra with 15k miles
2016 Wrangler Unlimited.
I am far closer to 40 than to 40. Just did not like for an everyday vehicle and 1000 miles of commuting a month.
2016 4Runner trail premium new
2014 FJ for 38,000 with 13k miles
2016 Grand Cherokee trail rated anniversary edition
Styling wise liked the FJ best.
Ride, range, mileage, bear gain worst of the lot.
Styling wise like the XTerra second best.
Great vehicle. Almost no budge on price despite being on the lot 60 plus days and ridiculous trade offer.
Like the 4 runner third best styling wise.
Ride with kdss fine. Best cargo space. Would have got it, but insulting trade in offer, minuscule from MSRP price, etc.
Grand Cherokee not in love with the styling, ride was the best.
Will do what I need off road. Not what I used to do, or think of myself as still doing, but the most capable of the unibodies from what I can find.
4K off MSRP.
What I wanted for my trade.
0% financing.
Color I wanted.
Will plan to keep for about 100k.
Re sell will be less.
Reliability past that will be less.
Probably come out even money wise in the long run.
If this was going to be a 200k vehicle I would have to have gone with the Toyota.
Mileage and towing better on this.
Will also save money not getting ladders, roof rack brush guards, etc. I would have done with the others.
I would have gotten an XTerra with more like 40k miles and factory certified and not done a trade in,
But my wife drew a line in the sand.
Would have put me at 4 classic and five newer vehicles in the family and traded in my daily driver.
I like sex, being fed, having my laundry done,
That sort of thing.
Now, before I get the hate,
Three vechicles in my family over the years have been toyotas.
One was 100% trouble free.
One had engine troubles they fought fixing under warranty.
The other had me stranded high and dry with a catastrophic failure do to a blown head gasket,
Which after the fact became a recall issue.
My one Chrysler vehicle had a failed water pump at about 80k and was a warranty repair.
Eurodriver
09-21-16, 06:31
I'm a little biased toward the 4Runner.
I would not get a Jeep today, and I am a huge Jeep (Both Wrangler and GC) fan. Out of everything I've ever been in the T4R gave me the offroad capability I wanted with the comfort I expected out of a $40k vehicle, but it sounds like you've made up your mind. You could have done worse...and better. :cool:
41569
Hmmmmm....
2011 XTerra with 40k miles an manual transmission for sale an hour or two away...
Worst roll-over rating since...ever? and quite possibly a worse resale than Chrysler. But the engine is reliable?
ramairthree
09-21-16, 14:14
Yeah. I could have driven off in a 4Runner no problem. Neither dealership treated me right.
I also wanted a touch more towing to throw a trailer and classic car, tractor to service, etc.
With my luck, now that I just bought the GC,
The 2018 4Runner will end up being revealed to be like an old school LC with all modern awesomeness
Which GC did you get? Motor? Which 4x4 system?
ramairthree
09-22-16, 10:24
Anniversary Edition,
Which comes with the Quadratrac I.
I got the Off Road package which adds the skid plates, full sized spare, Quadratrac II with Selec Terrain.
And the Gruop IV Tow Package.
I honestly don't know if this level of off road capability exists in any other unibody without spending twice as much.
I test drove the V6, 5.7, and diesel.
May have considered the diesel but they only had 2WD versions anywhere close.
Liked the 5.7, but not enough to pay the difference. Or want to eat the mileage my buddy does in his new Durango.
Well, maybe I would have paid the difference for just the engine, but every Hemi one I could find had every other option as well and were like 52 instead of 42k dollar vehicles. Sort of like in the Challenger I did not find the 6.1 enough of a difference over the 5.7. It would have added some towing capability, but unlike the 4Runner this is enough margin for a classic car on an open trailer. ( I do have a HD Ram but it is usually in the wife's hands with the horse trailer)
I have other cars with Coyote 5.0 or 6.4L engines,
Or a classic selection from 360 to 455ci.
Can get my power fix in those.
Sometimes people have asked me why I did not get leather.
I live on a farm, have muddy dogs, etc.
Already have a Mustang and an Acura MDX with leather.
Plus,
If I decide to get the multicam seat covers...
ramairthree
09-22-16, 10:25
Worst roll-over rating since...ever? and quite possibly a worse resale than Chrysler. But the engine is reliable?
Come, it is almost as stable as a Suzuki Samurai.
Resale is fantastic now that they stopped making them.
Looks cool though.
I'm a little biased toward the 4Runner.
I would not get a Jeep today, and I am a huge Jeep (Both Wrangler and GC) fan. Out of everything I've ever been in the T4R gave me the offroad capability I wanted with the comfort I expected out of a $40k vehicle, but it sounds like you've made up your mind. You could have done worse...and better. :cool:
41569
As someone who has owned a good number of models on the list above (while obviously not those model years), I would agree with Euros assestment. I currently drive an 2008 Xterra and I do love it, but I feel that the build quality on the Toyota is better in general. Power is now on par with the Xterra although I feel like it doesn't have the get up and go the Xterra does probably due to Toyota trying to grab better EPA ratings. I also think that Jeep needs to step it up on quality assurance when it comes to the little things, my step father had an 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland that had the window motor break leaving his window down ( lives in Seattle) and his steering wheel mechanism has broken twice, leaving the steering wheel in an almost 90 degree angle until he could get it repaired (not covered under warranty).
Worst roll-over rating since...ever? and quite possibly a worse resale than Chrysler. But the engine is reliable?
My 2008 has 160k with no maintenance other then dealer recommended. I do have a small transmission leak that only kicks in in 90*+ weather do to a cracked seal but I just top off the transmission fluid every other oil change, hasn't been an issue in 20k miles. Also, I have driven it like a Ferrari on multiple occasions and haven't rolled it yet.
I purchased a Toyota Tacoma recently, because I needed a truck. If I was focused on buying a SUV, I would have purchased a Toyota 4Runner. Google 4Runner and you will find a lot of good comments about them.
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