View Full Version : Thoughts on the Alton Sterling shooting?
I searched but didn't see this posted yet so wanted to ask everyones opinion.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/us/baton-rouge-shooting-alton-sterling/index.html#
The video looks bad. However we all know not to jump to conclusions this early.
I hear one of the officers yell what sounds like "he has a gun" or something similar then they shoot. It is hard to see but it also looks like they have full control of him.
Thought? Anyone have any better insight?
ETA: It is also important to add that the police were there because someone called claiming he had threatened them.
And of course this little detail.
It’s unclear how Sterling obtained the weapon. His rap sheet dates back two decades with several drug, firearm, theft and assault arrests. He was sentenced to five years to prison for marijuana and weapon possession in 2009
If nothing else I see the DOJ is wasting no time throwing the shiny ball in front of the public .
I'd say he dindu nuthin. He was a good boy who was turning his life around and about to go to college.
That about cover it?
Moose-Knuckle
07-06-16, 12:24
Typical . . .
Video is edited and or doesn't begin until the LEO's are in action, no video or audio of events that led up to the OIS.
Resisting arrest and or detention, maybe one day when hell freezes over a particular demographic will realize that when you fight LE you get tazed, OC'ed, smacked, and or shot dead.
Video quality sucks, no view of subject's hands while on the ground so we cannot see if he in fact had a weapon of one sort or another.
Oh, and who in the **** sells CD's/DVD's OUTSIDE of a stop and rob? Oh that's who . . .
CNN attempting to throw napalm on a smoldering fire yet again.
Sketchy to the layperson but....
Fat Albert was offering active resistance, was armed, made furtive movements, and the initial complaints were of him threatenimg people. His actions were not of one at wtong place wrong time just a misunderstanding.
Had he not been a lardass he would've tried to run. Instead, he tried to fight and got a bullet or two for his efforts.
After fervent review of my pockets, no fornications, nor even passing flirtations, are to be found.
ETA Moose, bro go back to Roy Batty pls. Some of us were eating.
Looks like his left arm was under control. Can't see what he was doing with his right. That will make all the difference in the world.
Looks like his left arm was under control. Can't see what he was doing with his right. That will make all the difference in the world.
Apparently he had something in his pocket he really wanted to get to....
Apparently he had something in his pocket he really wanted to get to....
I am sure it was just his FOP donation card.
I am sure it was just his FOP donation card.
Skittles and watermelon AZ iced tea?
Outlander Systems
07-06-16, 13:37
I literally just blew dip on the screen reading this. :haha:
I am sure it was just his FOP donation card.
Id like to see any body cam or any other camera/voice recordings. As usual no video or audio of what lead up to the smack down. Just a good boy selling DVD's. HMMMMMMMMM. Another case of someone selling bootleg video/audio/loosies out in plane open and possibly threatening a customer to boot. I'm getting too old for this shit. I just can't wrap my head around just how stupid some people are. Maybe this is what happens when we have a culture of appeasement towards asshattery.
There's something....that may be too morbid or too dark for M4C. But I feel like if I can't get it out somehow, it'll be toxic. I'll defer to mod discretion. Just please don't be too hard on me as I like everyone here and this site. It's therapy.
Everyday. Not all, but some police officers look in the mirror and say "Today could be the day." It's not like a Marine or Soldier but over enough time. You start realizing that everything is cumulative. You're getting older. Getting left behind by the polite society.
All you see is human shit. So you look in the mirror while shaving and just take a good long look. And realize, your life is totally worthless. Totally.
Nobody really cares, nor should they.
But you say "Today could be the day".
Not out of defeatism, or fear, or anticipation. Just acceptance. You're okay with it. If something goes too wrong it'll just hurt for a minute then it's over. Blackness. Nothing beyond. No more pain. No more joy. No more.
So you suit up, and go out. It'll be a quiet or busy day. Whatever. But no matter what happens, it's okay. Because if today is the day. It's a good day for it.
No. Didn't get to do all you wanted in life, but got to do enough I guess. Got eternity now to not worry about anything.
But, these pieces of street shit think everyday is a guarantee. That's why they resist. It's all "bullshit" to them. It's all a joke. A game. A life of guarantees. A life of expectations.
This guy, he probably really thought he could cause enough scene or fight his way out. Not out of courage, but ignorance, he really did not think that he could die over his actions. None of them do. So that's why they all scream Jesus Jesus Jesus in utter disbelief. They really don't think it is a possibility. They talk about it backhandedly to get sex or sympathy but not them. Never them. Until it happens. But it is too late.
So they whip it up to be a big global tragedy. Because This. Is. Just. Not. Happening.
But it is. It's possible. And if you screw around doing thug shit eventually the guy who has, at some level, accepted reality will put a bullet or a knife in you.
And he may not really feel bad. He might feel bad for not feeling bad or may not feel a goddamn thing because he forgot what normal life feels like.
Or something. Or I'm just full of shit.
Or both.
WickedWillis
07-06-16, 13:49
I'd say he dindu nuthin. He was a good boy who was turning his life around and about to go to college.
That about cover it?
This may not cover it here.
WickedWillis
07-06-16, 14:00
Id like to see any body cam or any other camera/voice recordings. As usual no video or audio of what lead up to the smack down. Just a good boy selling DVD's. HMMMMMMMMM. Another case of someone selling bootleg video/audio/loosies out in plane open and possibly threatening a customer to boot. I'm getting too old for this shit. I just can't wrap my head around just how stupid some people are. Maybe this is what happens when we have a culture of appeasement towards asshattery.
I read this morning that the Officer's body cams were not on for some reason, but I haven't been able to confirm it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-06-16, 14:01
There's a place to fight the police....in the courtroom. On the streets....you might just lose that fight. Actively resisting arrest, reaching for what the officers reasonably deemed was a weapon, and got shot. What's the problem?
WickedWillis
07-06-16, 14:12
There's a place to fight the police....in the courtroom. On the streets....you might just lose that fight. Actively resisting arrest, reaching for what the officers reasonably deemed was a weapon, and got shot. What's the problem?
I completely agree with the bolded out statement here. Do we have solid evidence he was actually reaching for a weapon? There seems to be so much missing from this case to draw facts right now in my humble opinion. Of course that can change quickly with new evidence.
KalashniKEV
07-06-16, 14:14
Not out of courage, but ignorance, he really did not think that he could die over his actions. None of them do. So that's why they all scream Jesus Jesus Jesus in utter disbelief. They really don't think it is a possibility.
I think the opposite is probably true.
Life didn't owe the guy a family or an education, but it wasn't in his destiny to have either. He probably grew up doing what he wanted and having a decent time at it. Picked up some BS charges along the way- owning and selling substances that we deem to be prohibited for some reason. It probably made less sense to him that it does to me. A normal-day for normal-people like, "Oh I have an early meeting in the city, maybe I'll check out that cool new restaurant for lunch... probably I can have a few beers and work from home the rest of the day" is probably better than any birthday or Christmas he ever had.
Maybe he had to slap a punk around once to keep him in line, and that just sent him back for more time. Probably the only ladies in his life were trying to pick up more dependents to increase their total benefit. Names like Quinyetta. One of them was underage, but I guess we'll find out more about that in the days to come.
Now he's 37 years old selling CDs on the street and living in a halfway house in Baton Rouge?
What's he got to live for?
So did he go for it? Who knows. The body cameras "fell off" the arresting officers, so there goes that evidence. Maybe there is security camera footage?
In any event, it's stupid not to collect statements on the scene but to follow up days later when an OIS takes place. Plus, the lesson of all of these recent cases is to leak the evidence early, and in it's entirety. Publish the autopsy. Every video from every angle. PDFs of statements. Don't leave anything at all open to speculation.
ETA: Daaaaaaaamn:
In 2009, he was sentenced to five years in prison for marijuana possession and for carrying an illegal weapon with a controlled dangerous substance.
Hard to tell from the video what the hell is happening. Who knows what his right arm was doing.
There's something....that may be too morbid or too dark for M4C. But I feel like if I can't get it out somehow, it'll be toxic. I'll defer to mod discretion. Just please don't be too hard on me as I like everyone here and this site. It's therapy.
Everyday. Not all, but some police officers look in the mirror and say "Today could be the day." It's not like a Marine or Soldier but over enough time. You start realizing that everything is cumulative. You're getting older. Getting left behind by the polite society.
All you see is human shit. So you look in the mirror while shaving and just take a good long look. And realize, your life is totally worthless. Totally.
Nobody really cares, nor should they.
But you say "Today could be the day".
Not out of defeatism, or fear, or anticipation. Just acceptance. You're okay with it. If something goes too wrong it'll just hurt for a minute then it's over. Blackness. Nothing beyond. No more pain. No more joy. No more.
So you suit up, and go out. It'll be a quiet or busy day. Whatever. But no matter what happens, it's okay. Because if today is the day. It's a good day for it.
No. Didn't get to do all you wanted in life, but got to do enough I guess. Got eternity now to not worry about anything.
But, these pieces of street shit think everyday is a guarantee. That's why they resist. It's all "bullshit" to them. It's all a joke. A game. A life of guarantees. A life of expectations.
This guy, he probably really thought he could cause enough scene or fight his way out. Not out of courage, but ignorance, he really did not think that he could die over his actions. None of them do. So that's why they all scream Jesus Jesus Jesus in utter disbelief. They really don't think it is a possibility. They talk about it backhandedly to get sex or sympathy but not them. Never them. Until it happens. But it is too late.
So they whip it up to be a big global tragedy. Because This. Is. Just. Not. Happening.
But it is. It's possible. And if you screw around doing thug shit eventually the guy who has, at some level, accepted reality will put a bullet or a knife in you.
And he may not really feel bad. He might feel bad for not feeling bad or may not feel a goddamn thing because he forgot what normal life feels like.
Or something. Or I'm just full of shit.
Or both.
Not an LEO, but I can totally see an LEO feeling this way today.
Not a big fan of bum rushing guys and taking them to the ground - the whole opposable thumb thing and tools, you know.
We are hampered by not seeing any beginning interaction and what lead up to 'get on the ground' and rush.
Crappy video, but it seems I heard 'he's got a gun' the most visible officer draws in response and you hear, I believe, someone say 'where?' then something unintelligible and moments later shots.
If you are clinched up and your partner hollers 'gun' you may not be able to see the weapon, at that point, what do you do? Is it objectively reasonable for an officer to fire in defense of his partner in such a situation? I believe most of the time, yes. In this case, there was a pause, PERHAPS as they were struggling to keep the man from bringing the gun into play. Then the shots, a pause, then additional. Not a mag dump, I get the feeling there was still action on the part of the subject to bring his weapon into play, and the officer fired in response to this.
My gut feel, and I still don't like the bum rush deal, because people get shot - bad guys and cops.
I also know sometimes humor is therapeutic, but right now a family is mourning the loss of a family member and the officers involved are going through their own special hell, we shoukld be sympathetic to the officers and empathetic to the family of the bad guy.
Apparently the deceased was, among other things, a registered sex offender and convicted pedophile...
http://archive.is/G1RFs
KalashniKEV
07-06-16, 15:25
In this case, there was a pause, PERHAPS as they were struggling to keep the man from bringing the gun into play. Then the shots, a pause, then additional. Not a mag dump, I get the feeling there was still action on the part of the subject to bring his weapon into play, and the officer fired in response to this.
I don't know... that assumes a lot.
We don't see it in the video that was published, so we don't know if he was reaching, or if there was a weapon at all.
Apparently the deceased was, among other things, a registered sex offender and convicted pedophile...
Offenses
• Description: 14:80 - Carnal knowledge of a juvenile
The Virginia Sex Offender registry classifies crimes as "Violent: YES/ NO" which I think would be helpful here.
There are plenty of charges in Louisiana that could have been levied against him if it were a rape deal or if he was doing pedo stuff. Probably he just got some jail bait booty.
(I know... that's another assumption)
Moose-Knuckle
07-06-16, 16:37
Apparently the deceased was, among other things, a registered sex offender and convicted pedophile...
http://archive.is/G1RFs
And yet many will mourn for him and try to make him the next SJW cause.
I'll raise a glass to the officers involved for going home to their families and saving just a little more oxygen on good old planet Earth tonight.
http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/196496006-video-new-footage-shows-fatal-baton-rouge-ois-from-different-angle/
Is this a different angle? He was digging in that right pocket, and the cop pulls something that looks like a Lorcin or Raven out after he took about five to the heart.
http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/196496006-video-new-footage-shows-fatal-baton-rouge-ois-from-different-angle/
Is this a different angle? He was digging in that right pocket, and the cop pulls something that looks like a Lorcin or Raven out after he took about five to the heart.
That version is horrible quality, that same angle is on other sites is a lot clearer.
Try this one
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/new-video-shows-different-angle-of-alton-sterling-shooting-719767619662
KalashniKEV
07-06-16, 18:29
Is this a different angle?
FYI there is ultra graphic footage from a much better angle showing his hand move, the shots fired, and him twitching as he bleeds out and dies.
It's on EVE's facebook page for now...
WickedWillis
07-06-16, 18:44
FYI there is ultra graphic footage from a much better angle showing his hand move, the shots fired, and him twitching as he bleeds out and dies.
It's on EVE's facebook page for now...
Damn man. I see his elbow go up, and then disappear. From this angle though, you really can't tell if he was actually reaching or trying to push himself up. It's the clearest video I have see thus far.
FYI there is ultra graphic footage from a much better angle showing his hand move, the shots fired, and him twitching as he bleeds out and dies.
It's on EVE's facebook page for now...
Can't tell what was removed from BGs pocket.
Which officer fired the shots? Hard to tell. The one on top or the one on the side? Looks like the one on top.
WickedWillis
07-06-16, 18:52
Can't tell what was removed from BGs pocket.
Which officer fired the shots? Hard to tell. The one on top or the one on the side? Looks like the one on top.
It does look like the one in the hat to me as well. Once that elbow goes up, and back down it looks like the dark haired officer hits him in the face, a few seconds before the camera turns away and comes back with the guy bleeding out. This one will be a very tough call to justify from the current angles we have.
That version is horrible quality, that same angle is on other sites is a lot clearer.
Try this one
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/new-video-shows-different-angle-of-alton-sterling-shooting-719767619662
Horrible quality, but the NBC one obscures the movements you can see in the one from policeone. Both are useful.
He was reaching in his pocket, where he had a gun. Not sure that many shots were needed, but whatevs.
Don't worry, FBI/DOJ is investigating it......I am sure that he officer had no intent, so they will not even have charges filed against them.
Same thing with Hilldabeast, so it should work with the man on the street no matter what he did, right?
I'm at this point erring on the side that thug got what thug needed.
World is better for it.
Yea, this one looks pretty straight forward.
Doj needs a distraction so their pushing it imo
FYI there is ultra graphic footage from a much better angle showing his hand move, the shots fired, and him twitching as he bleeds out and dies.
It's on EVE's facebook page for now...
I looked up the mentioned facebook page and watched the video, several times. Whatever was pulled out of Sterling's right pocket was very small. If it was in fact a handgun, it was probably something on the order of a Bond Arms .22 derringer or even smaller. Otherwise, it looks like a pocket knife or something. Too bad we don't get to see what transpired before the takedown.
It obviously took both officers to hold him down and he was resisting, and I am guessing they were concerned about a possible firearm hidden on his person. Could they have done anything else other than a gunshot downward at close range?
Well....maybe a taser if they had enough distance. Could've drive stunned him maybe but still risky.
I really doubt he had any intention of being cooperative.
Per body cameras, they aren't magic. If it's game on, pushing a button isn't foremost on your mind. When they approach he probably attempted to bully out hence the pile on.
Had he submitted, he'd be alive.
The downward shooting was actually not bad as it mitigated collateral. Having tried to see all video without the smarmy narrative all I see is physical resistance and furtive gesture.
He's definitely trying to reach for something in his pocket.
Theres more to his activity prior to police arrival that is being glossed over.
Like maybe with his record, this would've been a showstopper charge had the officers found out.
They are really trying to spin this one fast and thick. Which is telling.
I'm going to side with the safety of the police officers. I have never been in a situation like that, so I don't know if a less than lethal option was available. It certainly seemed to escalate pretty fast after the subject was on the ground. It will be interesting to find out what Sterling was grabbing at in his pocket?
I have had to deal with both real and perceived threats while engaging ground targets at an earlier time in my Army career. The adrenaline gets going and if it's armed, or appears to be armed, all receive the same result. Sometimes it's just a shitty world we live in.
ahhh a good excuse to blame others and then riot and demand things !!!!!
and of course distraction to important stuff !!!
I really hope they bring up in all the news that he was a pedo sex predator etc...
eightmillimeter
07-06-16, 22:04
Here is a new angle and better quality video. An officer is clearly heard shouting "he has a gun" at which point another officer draws his pistol and clearly tells the guy not to move or... Guy moves for what officers are thinking is a gun, officer shoots guy, two sets of three.
http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/196496006-Video-New-footage-shows-fatal-Baton-Rouge-OIS-from-different-angle/?nlid=196021044&utm_source=iContact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=TopNewsRelated1Title&utm_campaign=P1Member&cub_id=usr_pvAAPy7wQswu5vyV
Here is a story and body cam footage of a very similar incident in my state that was deemed justified. For reference only.
http://whotv.com/2016/05/11/officers-body-cameras-show-shooting-unfold-at-urbandale-hotel/
I have a pretty strong feeling this will turn out justified. Fighting a resisting perp on the ground is one thing, one with a gun is a lose lose every time. Comply Comply Comply
That version is horrible quality, that same angle is on other sites is a lot clearer.
Try this one
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/new-video-shows-different-angle-of-alton-sterling-shooting-719767619662
It appears that he raises his right hand in a "surrendering" manner over his chest...
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-06-16, 22:15
I'm so sick of our DOJ, I can't put it into words without getting a DOJ investigation of my own. When I first became a cop, I didn't believe in the "thin blue line". I thought it made for an us vs them mentality. Well, over the last few years I've learned that the "thin blue line" isnt just police. It's us, and it's all of you who stand for what is truly right, what is truly justice. So I'm okay with us vs them, because THEY do not want truth or justice.
I disagree. Us vs Them isn't the right mentality either.
Because 'Us' and 'Them' change every day.
They would rather you cut tickets than fill jails. They'd rather have unsolved murders than a cop on CNN deleting human garbage.
A black guy kills his dope buddy and it's business as usual.
But a white officer kills a black hood and suddenly everyone loses their minds.
Because it's all part of the plan.
You don't get paid for what you do. You get paid for what you make people think you could do. Maybe.
Depends on who's running and if it is an election year.
You're nothing more than a human ADT sign. Someone else's false promise of security. The round em up, fvck em up days are sadly gone
I caught some of the tail end and it was glorious. But gone they are and shall never return
read how the family said something about he would not have had a gun cause he was on probation and he does not break the law ?
could have been a play on words but then again :) ahahahahah I could see them being that desperate and stupid to !!!!
I think we can all agree it was on the LEO it was the GUN !!!! it did it we just need common sense laws and none of this would happen if we just banned all guns cause the GUN is the thing that killed him not the LEO !!!!
Had he submitted, he'd be alive.
Common theme in a LOT of these cases.
Moose-Knuckle
07-07-16, 03:55
I pulled this image from USA Today's site, it has not been Photoshopped or edited. You couldn't make this up if you wanted to . . .
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7382/27531467364_ff01b6a36f_z.jpg
I mean nothing says R.I.P. like writing your name with a Sharpie on a filthy folding banquet table in remembrance of the dearly departed below a sign for a bucket of chicken.
But apparently someone pointed out the faux pas to the stop and rob's owners and they have since removed the chicken advertisement and replaced it. You know you have arrived when your effigy is immortalized by a graffiti artist on the side of the neighborhood haberdashery . . .
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7337/28043070842_a01f452181_b.jpg
http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/alton-sterling-arrest-record-criminal-history-rap-sheet-sex-offender-sex-offense-crime-baton-rouge-louisiana-police-shooting-blane-salamoni-howie-lake-shot-charges-video-youtube-facebook-watch/
"He was also a registered sex offender with a lengthy criminal record that included weapons offenses, confrontations with police officers (including one in which he was accused of wrestling with a police officer, during which a gun fell from his waistband), property crimes, and domestic violence and other batteries (see all of the court records above)."
That doesn't justify an execution, as supposedly if you do a crime then do the time, besides the sex offender registry and your criminal record, you get most of your rights back. But if the police knew all this beforehand, and judging by the guy's massive size (300+ lbs), I can see why they might have been quick to escalate. And the call they were responding to was a guy threatening other people with a firearm, right? In any case, the story of him drawing on the police a moment before getting shot makes sense with his background.
I read the two pops you hear at the very beginning of the original video, before the tackle, was two failed taser deployments.
Moose-Knuckle
07-07-16, 04:48
"He was also a registered sex offender with a lengthy criminal record that included weapons offenses, confrontations with police officers (including one in which he was accused of wrestling with a police officer, during which a gun fell from his waistband), property crimes, and domestic violence and other batteries (see all of the court records above)."
When you roll the dice enough times your bound to lose at least once.
Once again the SJWs and probably the DOJ/Whitehouse will rally behind this career criminal to expand upon their agenda.
All I see on Facebook is "racism". Why don't any of these people care about black-on-black crime? I just don't get it.
Straight Shooter
07-07-16, 07:33
Know what- Karma, she is a bitch.
The sick fvck got what was coming to him. Good damned riddance.
Averageman
07-07-16, 08:44
I will never figure out why things happen like they do.
Why call the Cops in to your neighborhood in regards to someone brandishing a gun if you don't want the inevitable results when they resist?
Don't be a felon with a gun. If you are a felon with a gun and your interactions cause you to have to pull the gun. Leave, pop smoke, go visit your family who live out of town.
Once you're caught, straight up dead to rights, do you really think you can fight your way out of the encounter?
Once you've lost it completely and decide to go full out and fight the cops. Once you're on the ground and wrestling from the prone, bad time to grab the gun, more than likely the worst.
It's all about the decision making process. That Knucklehead believed the lies a failed culture gave him, so here is the truth.
Go to school, stay in school.
Stay out of trouble.
Graduate H.S. and go to College or a Trade School.
Once you graduate, don't go back for some of the HS trim. Girls will get you in trouble 14 year old girls will get you sent to prison.
Stay out of stupid places while doing stupid things with even stupider people.
Interact politely with Law Enforcement.
Now isn't that simple? Just those basics will likely land you smack dab in the middle class without a record and living a good productive life.
I will never figure out why things happen like they do.
Why call the Cops in to your neighborhood in regards to someone brandishing a gun if you don't want the inevitable results when they resist?
Don't be a felon with a gun. If you are a felon with a gun and your interactions cause you to have to pull the gun. Leave, pop smoke, go visit your family who live out of town.
Once you're caught, straight up dead to rights, do you really think you can fight your way out of the encounter?
Once you've lost it completely and decide to go full out and fight the cops. Once you're on the ground and wrestling from the prone, bad time to grab the gun, more than likely the worst.
It's all about the decision making process. That Knucklehead believed the lies a failed culture gave him, so here is the truth.
Go to school, stay in school.
Stay out of trouble.
Graduate H.S. and go to College or a Trade School.
Once you graduate, don't go back for some of the HS trim. Girls will get you in trouble 14 year old girls will get you sent to prison.
Stay out of stupid places while doing stupid things with even stupider people.
Interact politely with Law Enforcement.
Now isn't that simple? Just those basics will likely land you smack dab in the middle class without a record and living a good productive life.
You mean, Personal Responsibility? Not with the Millennial generation, and that crosses all racial and social boundaries. Now for some reason this group thinks society and/or the government hands out gifts that they're entitled to, including safe space. These are the "leaders" of America's future.
Back to this dumbass who got himself shot. If LE cannot produce a gun that said dumbass had in his pocket, and it's only a knife or something, get ready for the riots. It's a hot Summer already and the people pushing the protestors in the street are already making noises. The Soros back group, MoveOn.org is already fanning the flames.
40337[/ATTACH[ATTACH=CONFIG]40338]
Seeing this on buildings around the west end and cabbage town in Atlanta.
Business_Casual
07-07-16, 14:39
"Summer time... And the rioting's easy"
I do not recommend rioting.
How many young black soldiers died in the last 15 years?
Why don't they suit up, charter a flight and go kill up those racist ass ISIS honkies.
Oh yeah....they don't wanna get blown up or beheaded.
ForTehNguyen
07-07-16, 17:55
cops shooting unarmed blacks and whites equally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJHvppVEBTY
WickedWillis
07-07-16, 18:03
I do not recommend rioting.
How many young black soldiers died in the last 15 years?
Why don't they suit up, charter a flight and go kill up those racist ass ISIS honkies.
Oh yeah....they don't wanna get blown up or beheaded.
Plenty of young black soldiers died in the last 15 years, I'm failing to see the veiled point you are trying to make here.
wildcard600
07-07-16, 18:11
Plenty of young black soldiers died in the last 15 years, I'm failing to see the veiled point you are trying to make here.
I think he's saying that if they are so worked up over "black lives matter" why are they not over in the middle east protesting/fighting those who killed aforementioned young black soldiers ?
From what i've seen, if they get so mad about mostly dirt bags getting shot up here in america they should be at least four times as mad about young soldiers getting killed. But its not about anything other than defending their perceived "right" to be a shit bag and not be accountable for your actions.
Averageman
07-07-16, 18:38
I think he's saying that if they are so worked up over "black lives matter" why are they not over in the middle east protesting/fighting those who killed aforementioned young black soldiers ?
From what I've seen, if they get so mad about mostly dirt bags getting shot up here in america they should be at least four times as mad about young soldiers getting killed. But its not about anything other than defending their perceived "right" to be a shit bag and not be accountable for your actions.
Those guys, the "four times as mad guys" for the most part were much more representative in the units I served in than a "Trayvon" type.
The last time I saw my newest E-2 that I got in one of my last Platoon before I retired, he was an E-6 a new Platoon Sergeant and as we shook hands, I knew I passed the baton on to a deserving young Man.
It's all about Character.
WickedWillis
07-07-16, 18:47
I think he's saying that if they are so worked up over "black lives matter" why are they not over in the middle east protesting/fighting those who killed aforementioned young black soldiers ?
From what i've seen, if they get so mad about mostly dirt bags getting shot up here in america they should be at least four times as mad about young soldiers getting killed. But its not about anything other than defending their perceived "right" to be a shit bag and not be accountable for your actions.
That makes more sense now that it's explained like that. In layman's terms.
Plenty of young black soldiers died in the last 15 years, I'm failing to see the veiled point you are trying to make here.
My point is...
Why is the "black community" not teetotaling pissed at umpteen 18-34 year old black military members killed by whatever terrorist name they call themselves in SWA and not all chartering flights to burn down or destroy Bagdad or Syria?
Why is it 'okay' to tear up a city over a hood but not over a soldier?
Why would Obama claim Trayvon but not these Soldiers?
If I were Malcolm X, I'd get the Huey Newton gun club to show up, get a private plane and raise a level of Holy Hell not yet unseen on the people in the ME over this shit.
It'd be like the plot to a gory blaxploitation film. THAT would be justice.
But there would be risk so....just overreact, tag walls, whine on TV, ho hum.
This is my Kanye moment.
Black people don't care about Black people.
There's a GoFundMe page for Sterling's kids.
It's at (or just about to be at) $500,000.
https://www.gofundme.com/2d3eze7g
There's a GoFundMe page for Sterling's kids.
It's at (or just about to be at) $500,000.
https://www.gofundme.com/2d3eze7g
And I'm sure that money will be spent on college education.
And I'm sure that money will be spent on college education.
Of the hookers that they pay. I mean gift it to.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
And I'm sure that money will be spent on college education.
I'm wagering it never even makes it to those kids. Englewood, CA? No friends of the deceased, a little more, uh, local?
I saw the video showing that the officer placed his weapon against the man's chest and fired shots into him. I don't see the logic in this response and can only think that the officer's response was an error. My politics are far right of A the Hun.
Business_Casual
07-07-16, 20:23
Why is the "black community" not teetotaling pissed at umpteen 18-34 year old black military members killed by whatever terrorist name they call themselves in SWA and not all chartering flights to burn down or destroy Bagdad or Syria?
Because that won't help elect Democrats. Period.
But casual anti-police rhetoric might:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-minneapolis-shooting-20160706-snap-story.html
Well, the BLM protests in DC are shaping up nicely this evening.
New information:
Apparently he had a very similar encounter with police in 2009.
http://www.wafb.com/story/32431300/the-investigators-new-details-show-eerily-similar-incident-involving-sterling-police#.V4Wn4AU8jDY.facebook
I saw the video showing that the officer placed his weapon against the man's chest and fired shots into him. I don't see the logic in this response and can only think that the officer's response was an error. My politics are far right of A the Hun.
Let me get this out of the way first - if you are my partner and you holler 'he's getting my gun' that is PC, to me, to use lethal force to protect you.
From what I saw and heard, the weapon was identified, the officer in the foreground, left side, drew his weapon in response, positioned his weapon and then waited several moments, one might surmise to ensure the threat was valid and necessitated lethal force.
If you are tied up with the guy, I need to move in close and angle/locate the gun so the projectile poses as little threat to you, or other innocents, as possible. Often that is trained as contact, then back enough to not disconnect the gun. Could be one explanation.
I completely agree with the bolded out statement here. Do we have solid evidence he was actually reaching for a weapon? There seems to be so much missing from this case to draw facts right now in my humble opinion. Of course that can change quickly with new evidence.
It doesn't matter if we have evidence after the fact of a weapon. What matters is what a "reasonable officer" would think given the information the officers knew at the time. The report was he was threatening someone with a gun. He actively resisted arrest and would not take his hand out if his pocket. The officer even warned him he was going to shoot him. Warnings are not required but they are helpful.
Brave officer. Rather than waiting for his brother to potentially take a bullet first, he took pre emptive action.
WickedWillis
07-14-16, 11:07
It doesn't matter if we have evidence after the fact of a weapon. What matters is what a "reasonable officer" would think given the information the officers knew at the time. The report was he was threatening someone with a gun. He actively resisted arrest and would not take his hand out if his pocket. The officer even warned him he was going to shoot him. Warnings are not required but they are helpful.
Well it really should. Especially because said Officers conveniently had their body cams turned off, and the only video we have is shotty cell phone work. If you are responding to reports of a man with a gun, what is the standard protocol? Would you not roll up and draw down on the suspect immediately upon response? Why get into a situation where a taser fails, and Officers end up sitting on his chest and shooting him at point blank?
I find it very hard to believe two (from my eyes) good sized Officers couldn't control both arms of this guy. In the second video it looked more like he was trying to get up than reaching into his pocket for the mysterious black thing that got pulled out while he was bleeding out. Sure, that means he is resisting arrest, but that doesn't and shouldn't always translate to lethal force. There are far too many holes and mis-information in this case so far to write it off as a good or bad shoot. In both of these OIS last week the information released to the public has been at molasses trickle. If dude was reaching for a gun beyond a reasonable doubt then yes, I agree the Officers were in danger, but why hasn't the department came out and showed the gun they removed as evidence?
Or tinfoil point C, everything was rusty because this was the first distraction away from the Hillary verdict.
From what I read Justice is the only one doing the investigation and they do NOT want a local investigation done at all. Evidence is not going to be released during an investigation.
With a gun this guy was looking at 7 years minimum. That's desperation. You don't know if he was trying to shoot someone or just throw it under a car but you have to accept worst case.
WickedWillis
07-14-16, 11:25
From what I read Justice is the only one doing the investigation and they do NOT want a local investigation done at all. Evidence is not going to be released during an investigation.
With a gun this guy was looking at 7 years minimum. That's desperation. You don't know if he was trying to shoot someone or just throw it under a car but you have to accept worst case.
And like you said, desperation is a crazy motivator.
Averageman
07-14-16, 12:36
The Guy was a scumbag pedophile felon with a penchant for carrying a handgun and a history of pulling that handgun on people. Oh yeah, and fighting the Cops, he seemed to do a bit of that too.
I've got a feeling he's not really going to be missed in his "Community", but it's a hell of an opportunity for some BLM folks to get some attention.
If Mike Brown and Alton Sterling are the reason you want to riot, you really didn't need a reason, you just want some riot.
Moose-Knuckle
07-14-16, 16:37
I've got a feeling he's not really going to be missed in his "Community", but it's a hell of an opportunity for some BLM folks to get some attention.
If Mike Brown and Alton Sterling are the reason you want to riot, you really didn't need a reason, you just want some riot.
Nobody knew who he was until he was shot and killed fighting white cops same with Micheal Brown Jr., in the culture of criminality they are forever immortalized as martyrs.
And yes, just like the Rodney King riots and all the other "race riots" since . . . it's just an excuse to do "hood shit".
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-14-16, 17:17
Well it really should. Especially because said Officers conveniently had their body cams turned off, and the only video we have is shotty cell phone work. If you are responding to reports of a man with a gun, what is the standard protocol? Would you not roll up and draw down on the suspect immediately upon response? Why get into a situation where a taser fails, and Officers end up sitting on his chest and shooting him at point blank?
I find it very hard to believe two (from my eyes) good sized Officers couldn't control both arms of this guy. In the second video it looked more like he was trying to get up than reaching into his pocket for the mysterious black thing that got pulled out while he was bleeding out. Sure, that means he is resisting arrest, but that doesn't and shouldn't always translate to lethal force. There are far too many holes and mis-information in this case so far to write it off as a good or bad shoot. In both of these OIS last week the information released to the public has been at molasses trickle. If dude was reaching for a gun beyond a reasonable doubt then yes, I agree the Officers were in danger, but why hasn't the department came out and showed the gun they removed as evidence?
Or tinfoil point C, everything was rusty because this was the first distraction away from the Hillary verdict.
Please tell me about how many felony arrests you've made on a possibly armed subject who is actively resisting?
WickedWillis
07-14-16, 17:26
Please tell me about how many felony arrests you've made on a possibly armed subject who is actively resisting?
No, you tell me the protocol in this situation. Maybe the dudes were small, I don't know. I am only basing my evidence off of the scenes in these particular videos.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
07-14-16, 17:32
No, you tell me the protocol in this situation. Maybe the dudes were small, I don't know. I am only basing my evidence off of the scenes in these particular videos.
I'm 6 foot, 240lbs. I've fought people on the streets and in jails/prisons that have been half my size that have put up one hell of a fight. We've had 6 deputies on one individual who still fought like a damn demon. Size of the officers has little to do with anything, especially in a situation such as this. This is controlling someone, not sparring with them.
NOW, since you wanted to be so vocal about this one issue, tell me about your experience. You have an opinion, back it.
Moose-Knuckle
07-14-16, 17:35
No, you tell me the protocol in this situation. Maybe the dudes were small, I don't know. I am only basing my evidence off of the scenes in these particular videos.
Don't forget the "victim" here was tazed several times without any effect, much like our old school g Rodney King was before the sticks came out.
WickedWillis
07-14-16, 17:55
I'm 6 foot, 240lbs. I've fought people on the streets and in jails/prisons that have been half my size that have put up one hell of a fight. We've had 6 deputies on one individual who still fought like a damn demon. Size of the officers has little to do with anything, especially in a situation such as this. This is controlling someone, not sparring with them.
NOW, since you wanted to be so vocal about this one issue, tell me about your experience. You have an opinion, back it.
Well almost all of my post was asking questions regarding protocol, and why this happened and why that happened. I'm 6'1 270, and I have been in a few fights, most of which guys were smaller. I have never looked for them, or decided to brag about them. I'm not trained, never have been outside of high school wrestling and some ****ing around boxing sparring. One Officer sitting on dudes chest, the other over the left arm. Looks sloppy, like there was no better way to attempt that, but like I said, I'm not trained and there's not enough info in these videos for me to have a solid "that's exactly what happened" opinion. I get that Sterling was a big boy.
Now, if you read my whole post, shit might have been less fuzzy for you, but if I came across like I knew everything about the situation, well that's false wording on my part.
Don't forget the "victim" here was tazed several times without any effect, much like our old school g Rodney King was before the sticks came out.
I read tazed once, to no effect, before the altercation when he was tackled. But I've been wrong and misled before.
Just a little reminder: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?70019-The-Good-The-Bad-and-The-Ugly-an-M4C-Style-Guide
The Value of Opinions.
The Good: One of M4C's strengths is that we acknowledge that not all opinions are created equal. To this end, we have attempted to make the Subject Matter Experts and Industry Professionals in our midst more visible, so you know when you are engaging with a heavy hitter. We also have many, many regular members who are capable of dispensing very sound advice.
The Bad: If you honestly have no first-hand experience with the topic at hand, either learn to say nothing at all, or be very up-front about your limitations. Stay in your lane, and think twice about posting something that you believe to be true only because you read about it on the internet, or saw it in a magazine. You will earn far more respect by asking an intelligent question than by dispensing a foolish answer.
The Ugly: Knowledgeable members are generally quick to throw the BS flag when it is warranted, and post-counts may not be especially useful here, as some of the most competent members on M4C have relatively low post counts. You may well discover that there is more wisdom in the opinion of a 2006 member with 400 posts than in that of a 2010 member with 1,400. Pay attention, and treat it as a learning opportunity should you find your views being actively challenged. (There is an associated lesson here with respect to our stance on post-whoring, but that should probably go without saying.)
Don't forget the "victim" here was tazed several times without any effect, much like our old school g Rodney King was before the sticks came out.
The TASER Rodney King experienced was a completely different animal than today's generation TASER. I've been a TASER instructor for nigh on 20 years, if you get two probes making contact with your body with appropriate spacing, your are going to be controlled by the voltage. That is IF.
Most 'TASER Failures' are connection failures, not due to superhuman strength or focus. In some cases officers also get the probes too close to have nueromuscular incapacitation, in those cases the TASER turns into a pain compliance tool, and often the officer interprets the subject's attempts to get away from the voltage - think grabbing a spark plug wire - as resistance.
The TASER is a tool, you have to be competent with the tools you use, whether you are an officer, or a carpenter. Unfortunately, the reality is, most carpenters are more competent with their tools, because they use them all the time.
I could drone on and on, but you get my point. If I sound/write aggravated maybe it is because I am. Took the shotgun I use for skeet out of the safe and went skeet shooting, was going to shot four rounds (100 birds) damn gun malfunctioned first shot, and finally hung one up in the receiver before I called it quits. It was clean when I put it away, I think the lube du jour I was using back them gummed up. I should start a thread.
I could drone on and on, but you get my point. If I sound/write aggravated maybe it is because I am. Took the shotgun I use for skeet out of the safe and went skeet shooting, was going to shot four rounds (100 birds) damn gun malfunctioned first shot, and finally hung one up in the receiver before I called it quits. It was clean when I put it away, I think the lube du jour I was using back them gummed up. I should start a thread.
There's your problem, only an uncivilized heathen would take something other than a fine break action (O/U or SxS) to a SC/Trap/Skeet range.
Also haven't you heard? According to the know it all media the Taser is the endallbeallneverfailalwayssolvestheproblem solution to your LE needs.
As others have correctly posted it's not easy to "control" somebody who does not want to be controlled by hands on or even a TASER. Sure two big Cops could literally pound someone senseless but not only is that not what they are trained to do, that may not work fast enough to stop a determined suspect from carrying out an attack.
Truly controlling a 90lb crack princess having a bad day could take real effort from 3++ guys unless you can justify possibly lethal force beating or carotid control hold. A 6' 250lb felon in a bad mood is arguably impossible to subdue without using a serious amount of force and/or multiple (4+) Cops working in concert. And that's assuming he's already on the ground and with verified no access to weapons. Even a solid TASER hit only stops him while activated, the suspect still needs to decide to submit to handcuffing.
If a suspect has their hand/arm under them it is very hard to safely control that arm and more importantly what may be in their hand. This is where it could easily escalate to lethal force even if from many angles it just looks like a stand off.
This stuff is way more complicated than it looks on TV...
Dennis.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
While I think Philando Castile's shoot was a cluster.
Technically the Alton Sterling shoot meets the key points.
Could it have been done better? Maybe. Avoidable? Definitely....on Sterling's end.
All Sterling had to do was surrender and give up. Could a similar situation have resulted in a non-fatal use of force? Maybe.
It obviously isn't popular with some segments of our population, but I don't see, on a technical level, this as being an unlawful killing.
I do see a lot of training potential from this scenario. I'm with 26. Rolling up and rushing someone isn't always the best answer.
I just resent people getting all riotous over these incidents without waiting.
I personally know of people who are sitting in a prison right now because they overstepped their authority.
Patience. Patience. Patience.
ETA. Also Taser is A tool, not THE tool.
It doesn't fix everything.
I'd put more stock in good, honest, old fashioned police work.
I say this in the most humane context I can muster. I'd personally rather whip someone's ass than kill them.
Some of you may have had an old salt say something like that to you at some point.
But it's true. Who knows...people can change.
I'd put more stock in good, honest, old fashioned police work.
I say this in the most humane context I can muster. I'd personally rather whip someone's ass than kill them.
Some of you may have had an old salt say something like that to you at some point.
But it's true. Who knows...people can change.
That is also my moral belief.
However, in the age of social media there is plenty of trouble to be had there as well...
Dennis.
Moose-Knuckle
07-15-16, 01:50
The TASER Rodney King experienced was a completely different animal than today's generation TASER.
Yup, weren't those first generations back then?
Point being an attempt was made by LEOs in both incidents to subdue the subjects with less lethal before things went further.
Someone already mentioned the 90 pound crack princess. I've had several tough fights with small women. This man was big and strong and scared. He didn't want to go to jail. This is not a wrestling match or football game. The looser can end up dead. The guy had a gun. Was fighting with two police officers and was killed. Don't threaten people with guns and fight with the police and act surprised when you get shot.
Moose-Knuckle
07-16-16, 03:45
This is not a wrestling match or football game. The looser can end up dead. The guy had a gun. Was fighting with two police officers and was killed. Don't threaten people with guns and fight with the police and act surprised when you get shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtYczldR5cs
That's a good one. I have not seen it for a while.
Averageman
07-16-16, 13:25
The guy might have well have gotten a "Born to Lose" Tattoo on his forehead. The guy's Middle Name should have been Bad Choices.
I would imagine with his record, his recidivism and mandatory minimum sentences, Sterling might have been looking at the rest of his life in prison if he would have went "Hands Up, Don't Shoot!" and gave up. Felon with a gun and brandishing.
Here's what really bothers me; The people in his community weren't being enriched by his presence. He like to diddle little girls, pull guns on folks and occasionally do some some strong armed mischief. Being that in those same communities the majority of the crimes committed happen to be black on black, I'm not sure why folks don't see that he was a greater threat to them rather than the Cops.
Here is why I question the entire legitimacy of the BLM thing.
There is a real tendency to take guys like Sterling and Brown, who were pretty much a menace to their own people and elevate them to some sort of exalted status once they bleed to death on the street.
The absence of these thugs in a community makes everyone's life a little easier, from the shop keeper to the old lady walking home with groceries to the fourteen year old girl who matured a little too fast.
If Black Lives Matter, what about the lives of those in that same community these guys preyed on?
There's your problem, only an uncivilized heathen would take something other than a fine break action (O/U or SxS) to a SC/Trap/Skeet range.
Also haven't you heard? According to the know it all media the Taser is the endallbeallneverfailalwayssolvestheproblem solution to your LE needs.
I know, dang it I want so bad to rock the Bob Allen toe tab and break my O/U open and rest the muzzle on my toe, but damn a good O/U costs way more than I paid for my Gold Clay.
I dontknowthatabouttheTASER but I do know two things for sure 1) it is a pain in the ass to type without spacing; 2) most officers are inadequately trained in TASER tactics, because most agencies never go beyond the basic operators course.
The guy might have well have gotten a "Born to Lose" Tattoo on his forehead. The guy's Middle Name should have been Bad Choices.
I would imagine with his record, his recidivism and mandatory minimum sentences, Sterling might have been looking at the rest of his life in prison if he would have went "Hands Up, Don't Shoot!" and gave up. Felon with a gun and brandishing.
Here's what really bothers me; The people in his community weren't being enriched by his presence. He like to diddle little girls, pull guns on folks and occasionally do some some strong armed mischief. Being that in those same communities the majority of the crimes committed happen to be black on black, I'm not sure why folks don't see that he was a greater threat to them rather than the Cops.
Here is why I question the entire legitimacy of the BLM thing.
There is a real tendency to take guys like Sterling and Brown, who were pretty much a menace to their own people and elevate them to some sort of exalted status once they bleed to death on the street.
The absence of these thugs in a community makes everyone's life a little easier, from the shop keeper to the old lady walking home with groceries to the fourteen year old girl who matured a little too fast.
If Black Lives Matter, what about the lives of those in that same community these guys preyed on?
I like the context of your thoughts. The problem I have with Brown is simply this, it probably never would have happened THEN if more appropriate tactics had been used for the initial contact and subsequent recontact. I capped THEN because Brown was a thug, no doubt in my mind he was going to ultimately end up in prison or killed by someone.
If the Sterling thing gets to court, I feel the officers will be exonerated. Based on the situation their action were objectively reasonable.
The guy might have well have gotten a "Born to Lose" Tattoo on his forehead. The guy's Middle Name should have been Bad Choices.
I would imagine with his record, his recidivism and mandatory minimum sentences, Sterling might have been looking at the rest of his life in prison if he would have went "Hands Up, Don't Shoot!" and gave up. Felon with a gun and brandishing.
Here's what really bothers me; The people in his community weren't being enriched by his presence. He like to diddle little girls, pull guns on folks and occasionally do some some strong armed mischief. Being that in those same communities the majority of the crimes committed happen to be black on black, I'm not sure why folks don't see that he was a greater threat to them rather than the Cops.
Here is why I question the entire legitimacy of the BLM thing.
There is a real tendency to take guys like Sterling and Brown, who were pretty much a menace to their own people and elevate them to some sort of exalted status once they bleed to death on the street.
The absence of these thugs in a community makes everyone's life a little easier, from the shop keeper to the old lady walking home with groceries to the fourteen year old girl who matured a little too fast.
If Black Lives Matter, what about the lives of those in that same community these guys preyed on?
Exactly. And it's been going on for many years. Folks may not remember one upstanding Detroit crack dealer shot by the cops ~25 years ago. Sudedenly Malice Green was a saint. All kinds of threats to riot from the "community". Nevermind that the DPD Sergeant on scene was black, nevermind that the POS decedent had moments before been selling crack to their chilluns, no, the po-lice just shot him down for no good reason.
My thoughts on the incident at hand? Wtf was that pos doing running free in society? Should have had to ride the lightning after the 3rd felony conviction. Cops did society a favor...
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