View Full Version : What AR-15 to buy, good read
Author actually mentions BCM
http://www.thenewrifleman.com/the-ar15-buyers-guide-simple-steps-for-buying-a-great-rifle/
nice overview. thnx for posting.
to add to that, here's what i say when friends ask which brand to buy*:
Colt makes tough very-reliable military-quality battle-proven utility ARs (not including their low-cost Expanse, Competition, CE or CR series) and are the benchmark to which all others are compared. Starting around $800
Colt Expanse/CE/Competition/CR-series, S&W, Ruger, Rock River, Stag, Bushmaster, Windham, CMMG, DPMS, LWRCi, PSA, SGW, FN, Delton, Armailite, Eagle, Remington, Mossberg, Spikes, etc are hobby guns and range toys, meaning they aren’t built for heavy use or extreme reliability. They’re for first-time buyers wanting to learn about the AR platform, for shooting ground squirrels, plinking, laws-might-change-so-I-better-get-somehting-now, or just for fun. (Best buys: Colt Expanse or S&W M&P15 Sport II). Starting around $500
Daniel Defense (DD), LaRue, Noveske, Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT), and Knight's Armament Company (KAC) are “top-tier” makers producing fully-functional reliable high-quality boutique ARs with excellent fit/finish and lots of options, often used in world-class competitions and by elite military teams. Starting around $1600
I'd suggest:
- if you want an ultra-reliable utlility AR for defense, buy a military style Colt
- if you want one to play with, a better "hobby" model may work for you
- if you want fancier, more options and better finished, consider top tier
*i'm sure i stepped on some toes here or missed your favorite, so please don't come unglued. it just my very personal opinion. feel free to write your own list and share your opinion with your friends....
I like your list, but given that FN currently makes the government's M4s aren't they a little higher on the list now? Or are they making good guns for the military but still giving us civilians garbage?
By the way, years ago there used to be a chart of all the manufacturers and whether they used mil-spec or commercial buffer tubes, staked their gas keys yes/no, and so forth. Is anyone still maintaining it? If it's still here and I missed it my apologies.
I like your list, but given that FN currently makes the government's M4s aren't they a little higher on the list now? Or are they making good guns for the military but still giving us civilians garbage?
By the way, years ago there used to be a chart of all the manufacturers and whether they used mil-spec or commercial buffer tubes, staked their gas keys yes/no, and so forth. Is anyone still maintaining it? If it's still here and I missed it my apologies.
I was picking up a 6920 I bought off GB at my local gun store a few weeks ago and they sell a lot of FNs. I had them pull one of the more basic models off the wall (I only buy basic models because none of the ones that include lots of accessories are the ones that I want) to look at as I had heard on this site that they were "S&W tier".
A quick inspection showed me that it was definitely a cut above the DPMS/Bushmaster/S&W crowd because I quickly saw it had a 1:7 barrel, FSB secured via taper pins, a well staked carrier key, M16 carrier, M4 feedramps that lined up very well, and a staked castle nut. The bolt says MPI on it. The buffer was not stamped "H" though. I read somewhere that Colt started shipping H2s but I've still only ever received the "H" buffer. I run H3s or heavier so what it comes with is moot to me anyway.
I ended up buying the gun because, why not? It didn't have any of the fatal flaws that turn me off from other brands. After getting home and reading the manual it does say the barrel is "only" 4140. I'm not worried about it bursting on me though.
I've seen people allege that the receiver extension is not 7075 (I've seen others claim this is not true) or that the trigger group is substandard but based on a visual inspection I can't make the call. Considering that it was almost 100 bucks more for the same exact Colt (6920 with the black MOE SL furniture) it is definitely NOT a good buy unless fit and finish rates really high for you as we all know that is not Colt's forte. Some people bitch endlessly about something as minor as the extra forge flash in the trigger guard for ****'s sake.
So, I consider the quality to be there but the price is out of whack when being compared to a 6920. The only other advantage I could see is if you own an RDIAS and are looking for a host....clearly the 6920 can't do this with the way they leave that material in the lower.
DSK--if you follow the old link to the chart the last update by rob is in 2012 saying he doesn't have time for it anymore and took it down since he didn't want it posted without being accurate.
I like your list, but given that FN currently makes the government's M4s aren't they a little higher on the list now? Or are they making good guns for the military but still giving us civilians garbage?....
not personally being familiar with FNs, i defer to this gentleman's opinion - http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/645480_MIL_SPEC__MIL_STD__TDP_and_More__Explained__Colt__KFC__and_the_Fried_Chicken_Theory_of_the_AR15.html
plus i'm reminded of the old saying: "when in doubt, leave it out"
.
not personally being familiar with FNs, i defer to this gentleman's opinion - http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/645480_MIL_SPEC__MIL_STD__TDP_and_More__Explained__Colt__KFC__and_the_Fried_Chicken_Theory_of_the_AR15.html
Thanks for posting that. Now I'm hungry. :p
SniperOverwatch
07-11-16, 14:25
nice overview. thnx for posting.
to add to that, here's what i say when friends ask which brand to buy*:
Colt makes tough very-reliable military-quality battle-proven utility ARs (not including their low-cost Expanse, Competition, CE or CR series) and are the benchmark to which all others are compared. Starting around $800
Colt Expanse/CE/Competition/CR-series, S&W, Ruger, Rock River, Stag, Bushmaster, Windham, CMMG, DPMS, LWRCi, PSA, SGW, FN, Delton, Armailite, Eagle, Remington, Mossberg, Spikes, etc are hobby guns and range toys, meaning they aren’t built for heavy use or extreme reliability. They’re for first-time buyers wanting to learn about the AR platform, for shooting ground squirrels, plinking, laws-might-change-so-I-better-get-somehting-now, or just for fun. (Best buys: Colt Expanse or S&W M&P15 Sport II). Starting around $500
Daniel Defense (DD), LaRue, Noveske, Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT), and Knight's Armament Company (KAC) are “top-tier” makers producing fully-functional reliable high-quality boutique ARs with excellent fit/finish and lots of options, often used in world-class competitions and by elite military teams. Starting around $1600
I'd suggest:
- if you want an ultra-reliable utlility AR for defense, buy a military style Colt
- if you want one to play with, a better "hobby" model may work for you
- if you want fancier, more options and better finished, consider top tier
*i'm sure i stepped on some toes here or missed your favorite, so please don't come unglued. it just my very personal opinion. feel free to write your own list and share your opinion with your friends....
I'd pretty much agree with that, particularly the budget section. Though I'm not sure Colt is "the benchmark to which all others are compared." As far as conformity to mil-spec...sure, but in terms of quality...not really. Plus, with the modern makers out there I'm not sure that the technicality of Colt being the only one with the TDP really matters anymore.
right, keeping in mind i never said "mil-spec".
SniperOverwatch
07-11-16, 14:30
right, keeping in mind i never said "mil-spec".
Ha...true! :D
TheNegativeOne
07-11-16, 17:07
High Pressure Tested bolt and barrel
Magnetic Particle Inspection of bolt and barrel
Shot-peened bolt
Gas key properly staked
Mil-Spec 11595E Barrel Steel (or 4150 steel)
Chrome lined barrel (unless your buying a stainless steel or nitrided barrel)
M4 feed ramps (the modern standard)
5.56 NATO chamber (alternative: .223 Wylde)
Lol. Several of the lesser ARs he mentioned meet those specs.
Not a bad write up. Brings out the simple easy to spot points for first timers.
The best part is that there are no comments. Typical comments for any "buyers guide" or critique start out with, "How dare you say that about "Brand XYZ", I own one and it's been flawless for 500 rounds."
High Pressure Tested bolt and barrel
Magnetic Particle Inspection of bolt and barrel
Shot-peened bolt
Gas key properly staked
Mil-Spec 11595E Barrel Steel (or 4150 steel)
Chrome lined barrel (unless your buying a stainless steel or nitrided barrel)
M4 feed ramps (the modern standard)
5.56 NATO chamber (alternative: .223 Wylde)
Lol. Several of the lesser ARs he mentioned meet those specs.
I really enjoy your presence here, thenegativeone. Although, I think thehonestone or theobjectiveone would be more fittining. Keep on fighting the good fight.
nice overview. thnx for posting.
to add to that, here's what i say when friends ask which brand to buy*:
Colt makes tough very-reliable military-quality battle-proven utility ARs (not including their low-cost Expanse, Competition, CE or CR series) and are the benchmark to which all others are compared. Starting around $800
Colt Expanse/CE/Competition/CR-series, S&W, Ruger, Rock River, Stag, Bushmaster, Windham, CMMG, DPMS, LWRCi, PSA, SGW, FN, Delton, Armailite, Eagle, Remington, Mossberg, Spikes, etc are hobby guns and range toys, meaning they aren’t built for heavy use or extreme reliability. They’re for first-time buyers wanting to learn about the AR platform, for shooting ground squirrels, plinking, laws-might-change-so-I-better-get-somehting-now, or just for fun. (Best buys: Colt Expanse or S&W M&P15 Sport II). Starting around $500
Daniel Defense (DD), LaRue, Noveske, Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT), and Knight's Armament Company (KAC) are “top-tier” makers producing fully-functional reliable high-quality boutique ARs with excellent fit/finish and lots of options, often used in world-class competitions and by elite military teams. Starting around $1600
I'd suggest:
- if you want an ultra-reliable utlility AR for defense, buy a military style Colt
- if you want one to play with, a better "hobby" model may work for you
- if you want fancier, more options and better finished, consider top tier
*i'm sure i stepped on some toes here or missed your favorite, so please don't come unglued. it just my very personal opinion. feel free to write your own list and share your opinion with your friends....
High Pressure Tested bolt and barrel
Magnetic Particle Inspection of bolt and barrel
Shot-peened bolt
Gas key properly staked
Mil-Spec 11595E Barrel Steel (or 4150 steel)
Chrome lined barrel (unless your buying a stainless steel or nitrided barrel)
M4 feed ramps (the modern standard)
5.56 NATO chamber (alternative: .223 Wylde)
Lol. Several of the lesser ARs he mentioned meet those specs.
I noticed that too. Glad I'm not the only one.
How he can call the Expanse a "best buy" I will never understand. That thing makes me want to kick Colt in the nuts for even making it. I could see cutting a few corners to make a cheaper rifle to compete against entry level junk like DPMS but man, that thing has NOTHING going for it.
I found it hilarious that one of the points to look for was finding a company that will fix their product without giving you a headache then he mentions Aero Precision as a good budget rifle. Too funny. They had horrible CS and it was a nightmare with my AP 308. :nono::nono:
"3) A company’s ability to correct any quality issues with excellent customer service. There are plenty of reviews on the internet that claim brand X is great, but another person claims brand X is junk. The simple fact is that every manufacturer can produce a lemon. The question is, will they fix it without a headache?"
"I have highlighted a variety of excellent brands in the above guide, but if you want a quick and dirty recommendation, here is what I would buy on a budget: The Aero Precision AC-15M"
Then the author mentions he recommends AP because he is "a fan". Like that is an unbiased article....
He states
"I have lots of AP gear and its all quality, hence why I am a fan."
I would like to see him deal with their CS.
1_click_off
07-12-16, 07:13
I like your list, but given that FN currently makes the government's M4s aren't they a little higher on the list now? Or are they making good guns for the military but still giving us civilians garbage?
By the way, years ago there used to be a chart of all the manufacturers and whether they used mil-spec or commercial buffer tubes, staked their gas keys yes/no, and so forth. Is anyone still maintaining it? If it's still here and I missed it my apologies.
The member left and took the chart with him as it was his personal property. Think some major manufacturers were using his chart without compensating him for it as well. So it was pulled down from all public sites. He may still share it with you personally, I don't know though.
Edit: That is just from memory though several years ago. I didn't search the threads to find out how it came about, but that is what I remember.
I am sure someone will set the story straight shortly.
And to answer OP, I would get a Colt OEM1 or OEM2 and add the stuff you like to it. If I could start over, that is what I would have done. Only 1 rifle still has the stock furniture on it, all the rest have been changed out.
TheNegativeOne
07-12-16, 09:34
I found it hilarious that one of the points to look for was finding a company that will fix their product without giving you a headache then he mentions Aero Precision as a good budget rifle. Too funny. They had horrible CS and it was a nightmare with my AP 308. :nono::nono:
"3) A company’s ability to correct any quality issues with excellent customer service. There are plenty of reviews on the internet that claim brand X is great, but another person claims brand X is junk. The simple fact is that every manufacturer can produce a lemon. The question is, will they fix it without a headache?"
"I have highlighted a variety of excellent brands in the above guide, but if you want a quick and dirty recommendation, here is what I would buy on a budget: The Aero Precision AC-15M"
Then the author mentions he recommends AP because he is "a fan". Like that is an unbiased article....
He states
"I have lots of AP gear and its all quality, hence why I am a fan."
I would like to see him deal with their CS.
I bought an upper from them that was "in stock" except that it wasnt. I dont remember how many times i called them or how many months it took to get but it is a fine functioning machine. Although its not the one i originally ordered.
hmmm... 2 pages and no mention of BCM.
hmmm... 2 pages and no mention of BCM.
mentioned 3rd paragraph under "The Mil-Spec controversy" section:
"My old brand X rifle functions well and *might* give me a lifetime of use. Take 10 of its brothers and pit them against Bravo Company rifles and I would bet cash money a few brand X rifles would go down while all the Bravo Co rifles would still be functioning. This is the difference."
MajorLonghorn
07-12-16, 23:23
LWRC is definitely not in the "starts at $500" category.
Most of that list and his reasoning was just crap.
I found it hilarious that one of the points to look for was finding a company that will fix their product without giving you a headache then he mentions Aero Precision as a good budget rifle. Too funny. They had horrible CS and it was a nightmare with my AP 308. :nono::nono:
"3) A company’s ability to correct any quality issues with excellent customer service. There are plenty of reviews on the internet that claim brand X is great, but another person claims brand X is junk. The simple fact is that every manufacturer can produce a lemon. The question is, will they fix it without a headache?"
"I have highlighted a variety of excellent brands in the above guide, but if you want a quick and dirty recommendation, here is what I would buy on a budget: The Aero Precision AC-15M"
Then the author mentions he recommends AP because he is "a fan". Like that is an unbiased article....
He states
"I have lots of AP gear and its all quality, hence why I am a fan."
I would like to see him deal with their CS.
LWRC is definitely not in the "starts at $500" category.
as it says: the catagory starts in that range, not individual brands/models
hmmm... 2 pages and no mention of BCM.
Check the 1st post
Most of that list and his reasoning was just crap.
These are the main comments I came away with, looks good to me.
When you are choosing to buy a rifle that meets certain standards,
you are ensuring you get a rifle that can finish the race.
This is why Mil-Spec is important; it’s a minimum standard!
My old brand X rifle functions well and *might* give me a lifetime of use.
Take 10 of its brothers and pit them against Bravo Company rifles and I would bet
cash money a few brand X rifles would go down while all the Bravo Co rifles would still be functioning.
This is the difference.
I thought the article was good starter info that would send a noob in the right direction. Regarding his first choice of Aero Precision: Maybe not my first choice but I have one of their complete uppers and have no complaints.
And to answer OP, I would get a Colt OEM1 or OEM2 and add the stuff you like to it. If I could start over, that is what I would have done. Only 1 rifle still has the stock furniture on it, all the rest have been changed out.
I have to agree. Unless you're such a complete newbie that you want a rifle that's ready to go out of the box the Colt OEM's are a fantastic buy. I just bought one and decked it out with all the fancy parts off my other one which I returned to stock.
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